If we look at the first and best case for sin and punishment it would be Adam,Adams sin was "Disobedience" to God so the punishment was "death" Every sin small and great falls under "disobedience"and death this is clearly stated in [James2:10]...Now there are verses that clearly apply a "degree" to sin as being more or less sinful, but this is just gauging the moral decline of a given group or situation...
This is so logical... I mean, how can EVERY sin be equal?? So It would be no difference if I decide to lie to my mom or put a bomb in a plane with hundreds of people in it??? Come on. ò_Ó
@m4tbr the idea is you are not eternal because you have sinned. the penalty for sinning is death, there are 636 sins punishable by death including blasphemy, kidnapping etc. however it is not for humans to kill. the idea is you will die a natural death, therefore breaking even one of 636 sins means death. jesus died on the cross when he committed the sin of asking god why he had forsaken him. it turns out he made a mistake. therefore he died, had he not sinned there he wouldn't have died.
The Bible is truthful from the very first words HOLY BIBLE until the last and everything in between...you cannot make it fit your sin. Sin is not allowed in Heaven....PERIOD the end.
1Cr 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
1Cr 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
STOP YELLING! Any sin, unless you repent and stop doing it, then you are not truly repentant and unless you are convicted of your sins (in which if you are convicted of them, then you would stop) then you're not really saved by the blood of Christ. 1Cr 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
BUT IF YOU WANNA BE HONEST WIT YOSELF, THERRE IS NO SUCH THING AS SIN. ITS JUS RELIGIOUS MAD MADE WORD TO FRIGHTEN PEOPLE TO DO RIGHT. AND NO SUCH THING AS SINNIN AGAINST YOSELF, SAY IF SOMEONE TRIES TO HARM THEMSELVES, THATS NOT SINNIN, THATS JUS STUPID, AND IF YOU DO WRONG TO OTHERS, THATS NOT SINNIN, THATS JUS WRONG AND YOU GO TO JAIL. IN REALITY THERRE IS WHAT YOU CALL RIGHT OR WRONG, DO WRONG YOU GO TO JAIL, GOD DOES NOT CONDEMN PEOPLE, PEOPLE DO IT TO THEMSELVES GOIN TO JAIL NOT HELL
THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO DONT HAVE TO WORRY SINS IS THE GAY COMMUNITY SINCE HOMOSEXUAL ACT IS NOT A SIN, CUS THE BIBLE DOES NOT CONDEMN HOMOSEXUALITY, IF YOU ACTUALLY TRANSLATE THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGE HEBREW AND GREEK TO ENGLISH, HOMOSEXUALS HAVE NOTHIN TO WORRY BOUT SINCE THE BIBLE DOES NOT CONDEMN HOMOSEXUALITY. 1) SODOM HAD NOTHIN TO DO WIT HOMOSEXUALITY, IT WAS BOUT RAPE AND IT WAS STRAIGHT MEN DOIN THE RAPE. 2) LEVITICUS WAS BOUT 3-SOME NOT HOMOSEXUALITY
@UMANEDAKIDD19 IF A WOMAN AND A GUY IN BED, ANOTHER GUY CANT JOIN, THATS 3-SOME NOT HOMOSEXUALITY. PEOPLE, CHRISTIANS, NOT CHRISTIANS, I MEANT HOMOPHOBES, THATS AN INSULT TO CHRISTIANS. HOMOPHOBES VS. CHRISTIANS, A REAL CHRISTIANS DONT PREACH HOMOSEXUALITY IS A SIN, AN INTELLIGENT CHRISTIAN LIKE MY HOMEGIRL KNOWS HOW TO TRANSLATE THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGE TO ENGLISH AND THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGE DOES NOT CONDEMN HOMOSEXUALITY. ITS HOMOPHOBES WHO TWIST SHYT ROUND TO JUSTIFY HOMOPHOBIA.
@UMANEDAKIDD19 AND THATS NOT WHAT CHRISTIANS ARE BOUT, ITS HOMOPHOBES WHO COVER UP HOMOPHOBIA WIT RELIGION, THAT MAKE CHRISTIANS LOOK BAD. A REAL CHRISTIAN FOLLOWS THE TEACHIN OF JESUS AND JESUS NEVER MENTIONED ANYTHING BOUT HOMOSEXUALS OR HOMOSEXUAL ACT, NOT ONCE DID HE EVER MENTIONED THAT, SO A REAL CHRISTIAN PREACHES LOVE. DONT LET HOMOPHOBES FOOL YOU, THIS WHY I HATE HOMOPHOBES CUS THEY GIVE TRUE CHRISTIANS LIKE MY HOMEGIRL A BAD NAME AND SHES TIRED OF PEOPLE DOGGIN CHRISTIANS.
@UMANEDAKIDD19 DONT BE MAD AT TRUE INTELLIGENT CHRISTIANS, BE MAD AT HOMOPHOBES WHO CALL THEM CHRISTIANS CUS THEY COMIN INTO CHRISTIANITY AND TURNIN IT INTO SOMETHIN ITS NOT. THATS WHY ITS HOMOPHOBES VS. CHRISTIANS. YOU'LL KNOW WHO'S A CHRISTIAN AND WHO'S A HOMOPHOBE, A TRUE CHRISTIAN LIKE MY HOMEGIRL SAYS DOES NOT PREACH THAT HOMOSEXUAL ACT IS A SIN, BUT A HOMOPHOBE WILL PREACH IT ITS. KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A HOMOPHOBE AND A CHRISTIAN.
ADAM committed "one" sin "disobedience" and died for it, the ultimate price! We know the greatest commandment is "love thy God with all your heart" therefore the greatest sin is to not love God with all your heart,yet Adam loved God!We are a sinner on the first sin, not the largest sin.The first sin is unto death! the rest are academic.The bible only recorded one sin for Adam in nearly a thousand years?Doubtful Adam lived sin free his remaining years?
@buddy85442 Adam didn't love god, because he coulden't even do one simple thing. Adam preferred the devil over god, he proves that quite obviously. And like Jesus said, you cannot serve 2 masters. This is why god grieved, and this is why Adam got destroyed.
@danielkirk1 [Mat-22:36] When Jesus was asked "which is the greatest commandment in the law?Jesus said unto him.thou shalt love the lord thy God with all thy heart"..Now if Adam had violated this, the greatest commandment then he would have been convicted of it and suffered the same death.The point is Adam committed one sin unto death not two.Adam died but was never destroyed.Adams sin was payed for by Christ on the cross, as are yours and mine. thank God
@buddy85442 I hope you are right friend! It is unclear if Adam listened to Jesus when he went back to hell (i bet we both agree he did now that i think about it properly). I was trying to justify gods decision to punish adam.
@danielkirk1 Thank you for this fellowship,even Godly debate among believers will strengthen our faith.I feel God wants us to question him, he said to come to him as little children? and we know little children are full of questions? maybe we can encourage each other on future topics.God bless
And the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin...If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1
And the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin...If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1
And the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin...If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1
When two gay people have a loving, monogamous relationship, they get to go to hell. If a priest molests a young boy, it gets swept under the rug and he gets "forgiven". If someone bombs an abortion clinic, he gets to go straight to heaven for doing the will of God.
@Blarghonius I want to be careful on how I reply because i don't mean to offend but there is much you need to take into consideration. Unfortunately for people who struggle with homosexuality this sin is very deceptive to them, they can't see it for what it is. The "love" is in reality a deceitful desires that defies God. They choose to reject God. Christ can forgive the people who have committed homosexuality as well as the priest, no difference. Bombing clinics is NOT God's will, that's a lie
@SeventyTimesSeven490 So if that is deceptive, how can we be sure that our entire lives are nothing but massive lies? Even the faith you have could be a lie crafted by Satan.
@Blarghonius I have chosen to seek out the truth and find logical and rational reasons for my faith. I do not choose however to simply attack the bible and Christianity blindly. If you seek out the truth and test what is called truth you will find God, if you really want to find Him he will make himself known to you.
@SeventyTimesSeven490 So I'll only know the truth about God and Christianity if I join your group and believe, despite the fact that your holy text, words and actions are available for all? Tell me why that's not suspicious.
@Blarghonius Sin is real and because of your love for it you suppress the truth about God. Sin is running through mankind and that's why the world is always in so much pain and turmoil. perhaps in the eyes of a human the priest will escape judgement but unless one truly repents and accepts christ they will NOT escape judgement in hell. Same applies to people who practice homosexuality.
@SeventyTimesSeven490 You're assuming things about me that are not true; I don't "love sin" and have my own moral code based on the fact that my actions have impact on others. I also don't rely on a concept like hell to back up my ideals. The world is full of suffering because people refuse to see each others as equals and act unjustly towards each other. Don't bother using a mystical explanation when a simple logical one will do.
@Blarghonius And on a more personal level I've been graced by God to have been saved though I struggle with desiring the sin of homosexuality. I didn't go to some camp I simply trusted in Christ and received a new heart. I'm not saying it didn't kill me to die to my former passions just that I gave up my sin and find joy in Christ. It's a blessing to keep God's commandments not something that comes through a self-hate camp. I bear my cross, and it huhurts to die to self daily.Pick up your cross
@SeventyTimesSeven490 I have my own burdens; it's called living my life and working to make things better for myself. Acknowledging the self isn't dying; it's the opposite.
@Blarghonius We are all the same w/o Christ. None of us know it until the gospel is preached. We all sin and become our own reference as to what righteousness is and never see our own sin. Anyone who does not love God loves their sin :( When I say self I'm referring to the sinful desires in my body such as desires to lie, steal, lust, and be selfish etc. This "self" is selfishness, keeping God given life for yourself, not serving your Creator, trying to be God in your life is what you are doing.
@SeventyTimesSeven490 We are all people regardless. Separating people based on something other than their actions is unjust, and saying that anyone who doesn't follow you is evil is a false dichotomy, even if that thought makes you sad. Your definition of self is also skewed drastically towards the negative. Also, being in control of my own life is bad?
@Blarghonius People sin, that is their action apart from Christ. Failing to judge people for their sin would be unjust. What is unjust is that Christ came and DIED as a sacrifice to atone for our sin and you reject the only one who can save you. I think even if you truly abserved people you would see the evil within them apart from Christ. And yes, you can not overcome sin so your idea of control is truly just bondage to sin that's why you need Christ to guide you and lead you.
@Blarghonius The beauty of the gospel is that God does not leave us to just run into hell so helplessly. He gave his son to us though he never had to. When God unveils the gospel you have a choice, to follow him or deny him. He loves you man and desires your heart. A love that causes God to give us his beloved son to reconcile us to himself after we have rejected and hated him. This is the gospel man. I hope you don't reject this,you will want to because it is the truth,just an eternal warning.
1)The Father gives his only son to DIE. Yes He was resurrected but he died and it was not something He had to do rather He did it out of love. He suffered the wrath of God and the punishment of eternal hell for all who would trust in Him and had trusted in Him. This is extreme so you can understand. If your wife cut off her arm so you wouldn't have to and then had it replaced was it not a sacrifice to lose her arm in place of yours tho she has a new arm?
@SeventyTimesSeven490 You forget something; for your metaphor to be correct, my wife would need to be punishing me for something I didn't do but someone else did a long time before I even existed, and then offer her removal of an arm to assist me because I'm a wicked person for being punished. Sure, your metaphor makes a little sense in its own context but that's not what the Bible says happened.
@Blarghonius Sin came through Adam and death through sin therefore all men are punished because we would have done the same. The punishment that Christ so gracefully takes away is yours alone because you reject Christ. You are no different from Adam in that you have sinned against God. Well apply the little sense to Christ and I hope that helps a little.
@SeventyTimesSeven490 That's a massive assumption that anyone would have done the same and you're willing to base your entire system of morality on that?
[16] And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, “You may surely eat of every tree of the garden, [17] but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”
2)It is a fair choice because unfortunately Adam and Eve represented all of us. When we disobeyed God in the garden it would have been perfectly just for everyone from the start to be sent to hell on account of their sin. So you and I never deserved anything more than hell after we sinned. So when God says, even tho you deserve hell I will give my son so that you can be with me forever I think it is excruciating when his children reject him. He gave you the choice of Christ.
@SeventyTimesSeven490 What a wicked and twisted view of morality. We we're there when that happened. He had no choice at all in the matter. Yet, we are still being punished. Punishing someone for someone else's crime is innately unjust. From what you're saying, God's wrath is a separate entity from his mercy, or he wants to have it both ways, so he's either fragmented or a hypocrite or some other illogical possibility. How is any of that just or reasonable?
@Blarghonius He definitely had a choice, he had to become a man first because he chose to do so out of love NOT any form of obligation. Only those who continually reject Christ are punished, I am not because I have trusted in his sacrifice.
@SeventyTimesSeven490 No, he did not have a choice. He was tempted by Satan, whom the perfect God let into the garden. Do you seriously believe that a being on a level high enough to challenge God couldn't convince an naive mortal to do something, especially when he is a master of deception?
@SeventyTimesSeven490 Quoting an old book with no evidence for its texts outside of itself doesn't prove your point. You are continuing to draw morality from a source that is innately immoral, supposedly inspired by a being who flouts his own rules. You cannot draw morality from someone who is not moral.
@SeventyTimesSeven490 When you realize you cannot disprove the resurrection of Christ you are forced to accept the bible as truth. That is when the self-centered life is crucified and new joyful life in Christ is found. I urge you to study and test the bible, because if you do with an open heart and mind and as objectively as possible you will discover the truth of God's word. Happy Christ seeking :)
@SeventyTimesSeven490 You have no idea how logic works, do you? If the fact that you couldn't disprove something means it is true, why aren't we all worshiping giant floating invisible cats made solely of purple acrylic paint that have worked with the Illuminati to cover every piece of evidence of their existence with 100% success? There's no solid physical proof that they don't exist.
@Blarghonius Jesus is who Christians worship, we know our God and he knows us perfectly well. We know God through Christ, the exact imprint of God the Father. Jesus is the rock and foundation of our faith. He has provided sufficient reason to have faith in him. If you reject what he has shown you through the world itself and his beloved Son the weight of condemnation falls on solely you. Humble yourself and seek your God. God bless man, I'd love to continue but you have made a choice.PrayerTime!
@SeventyTimesSeven490 Yes, of course my condemnation is my fault instead of the fault of the one doing the condemning. Also, if he has provided "sufficient reason" to believe he exists, why isn't everyone already convinced? Surely a mere "love of sin" won't keep people away from the truth. People everywhere, not just in countries where Christianity if present, should be setting up churches and attending masses.
@Blarghonius "Yes, of course my condemnation is my fault instead of the fault of the one doing the condemning"
That's like saying it is the states fault for punishing the man who murdered his innocent family. That's an absurd statement, the murderer transgressed the law and deserves punishment. Just like one who sins.
Secondly, b4 Christ, mankind is self righteousness and think they are "good" and do not need God and will do anything to continue living in sin. Pride=sin,and is the fault ofMANY
@SeventyTimesSeven490 There's a difference between the state and God; the state has a logical, moral reason for its laws, that being the good of its citizens. The law of the state isn't just there like the law of God is. The law of God is based on the completely arbitrary whims of a being whose true motives are unknown and whose existence is suspect.
@SeventyTimesSeven490 Hold on. If mankind is as you describe it, certainly those who don't believe would not be a minority. Usually, the opposite is true; people flock to religion for easy answers to difficult choices and questions and to obtain a supposed moral high ground on their peers. Also, if pride is a sin, how come God, who demanded that all of humanity only worship him and nothing else, isn't a black pit of the evil stuff?
@Blarghonius "An old book with no evidence for its texts" That is a groundless statement. I'm sure you feel that way about the bible but the bible is 100% reliable and true...carm.org/manuscript-evidence. I can't write that all here so check that website before you make empty statements like the bible is unreliable. Secondly the crucifixion and the empty tomb is impossible to logically and reasonably/historically disprove further testifying to the bible's claims.
@SeventyTimesSeven490 I'm not going to accept evidence from a biased group with obvious self-interest in saying that the Bible is true. Secondly, it's hard to disprove a claim of an event for which there is no evidence of actually happening.
@Blarghonius I'm testifying to God's truth I would be that me testifying of Jesus would bring you to faith but I can see that you are an intellectual and like you I couldn't simply take someone's word, not even God's word (bible). Like I said before this is a start and I'm inviting you to seek the truth as objectively as possible. Not based on just me but your own study of Christianity. Don't do it with a hard heart(biased against it) as I did. My interest is for you to know God not self-interes
@Blarghonius I strongly encourage you to seek God's face and the truth of his word. I know you will find that the bible is 100% truth and God's works and the resurrection testify to Jesus and the bible. Like I said I encourage you out of the love I have received from God because I want you to know God. And the evidence is there, you have either suppressed it or simply do not know of it. Seek truth, seek Christ. Don't take my word for it, discover it for yourself, I did and found God. God bless
@SeventyTimesSeven490 I've looked. I've seen the world for what it is and seen people and their actions. I've weighed the options. Through this, I have found that God is nearly indistinguishable from a guess a bunch of ignorant men thought up when they wondered how the universe worked. Your god is a permanent "maybe".
@Blarghonius My bad, I'm a man still in this fleshy body so I make mistakes lol I meant 2 Corinthians 5:21. Please forgive my mistake if it caused confusion
@SeventyTimesSeven490 YOU'RE NOT A CHRISTIAN, YOU'RE A HOMOPHOBE. MY HOMEGIRL WHO IS A CHRISTIAN, SAID THERRES DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A CHRISTIAN AND A HOMOPHOBE. A CHRISTIAN DOES NOT PREACH HOMOSEXUALITY IS A SIN, A HOMOPHOBE PREACHES THAT. SHE SAID A TRUE INTELLIGENT CHRISTIAN KNOWS HOW TO TRANSLATE THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGE OF THE BIBLE TO ENGLISH, AND THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGE DOES NOT CONDEMN HOMOSEXUALITY. HOMOPHOBES TWIST SHYT ROUND TO JUSTIFY HOMOPHOBIA.
@SeventyTimesSeven490 THE BIBLE VERSES HOMOPHOBES MISINTERPRET AND BRAINWASH INTO PEOPLE, 1) SODOM AND GOMORRAH, THAT HAD NOTHIN TO DO WIT HOMOSEXUALITY AKA CONSENSUAL SEX, IT WAS BOUT RAPE, FORCEFUL SEX, IT WAS STRAIGHT GUYS FORCIN THEMSELVES ON OTHERS, THATS NOT HOMOSEXUALITY, THATS WHAT YOU CALL RAPE, TWO DIFFERENT THINGS, SODOM STORY CONDEMNED RAPE NOT HOMOSEXUALITY, LEARN TO TRANSLATE THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGE TO ENGLISH, YOU'LL KNOW, NOT WHAT HOMOPHOBES MISINTERPRET.
@markman090 IT DOESNT, HOMOPHOBIC TRANSLATORS WHO TRANSLATED IT WRONG. THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGE OF THE BIBLE SAYS NOTHIN BOUT HOMOSEXUALS OR HOMOSEXUAL ACT BEIN A SIN. JESUS SAID NOTHIN BOUT IT EITHER. IT WAS HOMOPHOBIC TRANSLATORS WHO NEVER PRAYED WIT JESUS, ATE WIT JESUS, HOMOPHOBIC TRANSLATORS WHO TRANSLATED IT WRONG ADDED HOMOSEXUALITY TO JUSTIFY THERRE HOMOPHOBIA
@markman090 IVE READ IT BUT THATS NOT JESUS SAYIN IT. YOU CANT FIND A VERSE WHERRE JESUS SAID IT CUS HE NEVER DID, YOU'LL NEVER FIND A VERSE FROM JESUS SAYIN HOMOSEXUALS OR HOMOSEXUAL ACT IS A SIN OR AN ABOMINATION. STOP MAKIN A FOOL OF YOSELF, YOU QUOTIN WHAT HOMOPHOBIC TRANSLATORS SAY, YOU'RE NOT QUOTIN JESUS.
@SeventyTimesSeven490 2) LEVITICUS, ANOTHER ONE HOMOPHOBES MISINTERPRET OR TWIST SHYT ROUND TO JUSTIFY THEY HOMOPHOBIA, LEVITICUS HAD NOTHIN TO DO WIT HOMOSEXUALITY, IT WAS BOUT 3-SOME, A WOMAN AND GUY IN BED TOGETHER, ANOTHER GUY CANT JOIN, THATS 3-SOME NOT HOMOSEXUALITY, BUT HOMOPHOBES AGAIN LOVE TO TWIST SHYT ROUND TO JUSTIFY HOMOPHOBIA. YOU MIGHT WANNA RESEARCH THESE THINGS BEFORE TALKIN WHAT YOU DONT KNOW CUS YOU'VE BEEN BRAINWASHED AND YOU TOOK IT AS THE TRUTH
@SeventyTimesSeven490 3) CORINTHIANS, WAS BOUT WOMEN NOT GUYS, AGAIN THAT HAD NOTHIN TO DO WIT HOMOSEXUALITY. DONT BELIEVE ME, GO RESEARCH YOSELF, WHEN YOU KNOW HOW TO TRANSLATE THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGE TO ENGLISH, YOU'LL BE SHOCKED TO FIND OUT THAT THE BIBLE DOES NOT CONDEMN HOMOSEXUALITY AND YOU'VE BEEN FED BULLSHYT LIES BY HOMOPHOBES. HOMOPHOBES WHO CALL THEMSELVES CHRISTIANS ARENT CHRISTIANS. HOMOPHOBES COME INTO CHRISTIANITY TURNIN IT INTO SOMETHIN ITS NOT. WAKE UP HERRE
@Blarghonius God is not impartial, He will judge each person according to their works unless they have been redeemed by Christ and their redemption will prove itself true when their lives reflect Christ. People must repent, which means to "turn away from their sin" and accept Christ. Only then can they be truly forgiven. Again, both the men who struggle with homosexuality and the man titled priest who molested the child are both offered forgiveness of their sins if they repent and trust Christ.
No True Scotsman is a fallacy, not an arguing point.
Also, sin is a creation of religion and has no bearing outside religious matters. Also, the two gay men have to go through a soul-destroying "conversion" camp where they will be forced to hate themselves while the priest can just say a few prayers and get off for just a minute of his time. Don't tell me those are the same.
If a poor man (sins) by stealing food to eat .... I don't think this is a bigger sin than a man that rapes & murders a woman. So there are some sins that are worse than other sins.
When the Bible talks about degrees of sin, that has to do with man.. and how the law.. the authorities will punish. When I say there are no degrees of sin in the eyes of God... I am talking about our sin against Him.
I thought my face was blue enough trying to explain my POV... but, I'll settle for purple :-)
@margovallen "When the Bible talks about degrees of sin, that has to do with man.. and how the law.. the authorities will punish."
...Excepts Christ called Judas delivering Him to Pilate a greater sin that what Pilate will do. And Christ said some will be punished less - talking about unbelievers.
@margovallen I apologize for not getting back to you sooner; having difficulties earlier.
I'm afraid that's simply not in the text. Here's the verse again: (John 19 :11 NKJV) - "Jesus answered, "You could have no power at all against Me unless it had been given you from above. Therefore the one who delivered Me to you has the greater sin."
There is NO DEGREE OF SIN in the eyes of the Lord.... OTHER THAN the blaspheming of the Holy Spirit.
To God, a "white" lie and murder are all the same. All sin makes us unclean and unfit for the Kingdom of God.
Jesus died FOR ALL and since love does not force and love does not insist on it's own way.. God, in His love for us, gives us free-will. Jesus died for ALL and salvation has been made available to ALL but, we have the choice to accept or reject.
@margovallen Well then, according to that, I am lost.
What do you make of this verse? (John 19:11 NKJV) - ' "Jesus answered, "You could have no power at all against Me unless it had been given you from above. Therefore the one who delivered Me to you has the greater sin." '
@TheCrushmaster Per the passage of scripture, I'm thinking Jesus is talking about the act of "betrayal" on the part of Judas.. being worse than what Pilate could deliver. If this verse is all you have to counter my 'no degree of sin' comment.. well? :-)
If you believe on and trust in Jesus Christ for your eternal salvation, you're not lost :-)
@margovallen No, it's not near all I have. But it talks about a "greater sin", thus meaning there are "lesser" and "greater" sins. Greater cannot exist without a lesser.
@TheCrushmaster Well, I'm not exactly sure whats being actually 'said'.. in the passage of scripture you provided. My original point is the fact that, all sin makes us unclean and unfit for the Kingdom of God. So, hell is hell.. and thats exactly where those of whom go for eternity if they're not made justified in Jesus Christ, period! Are there degrees of hell?
If you have other scripture that may point to there being 'degrees of sin'.. I'd appreciate your pointing those out to me, please :-)
@margovallen Yes, there are degrees of punishment in Hell. Go to Revelation 20:11-15 - they describe the unsaved as being judged according to their works. Also: Matthew 15:10, etc. (search phrase "more tolerable" in the NKJV) references greater and lesser judgments.
Another point is the Old Testament Law. If all sins are the same in the Eyes of God, why were there different punishments?
Etc. I apologize I cannot go into more detail; there's not much room. Would you rather discuss this via PM?
@TheCrushmaster The only "works" God will be interested in per the unjust, are whether or not they believed on Jesus Christ. Any "good" works the lost performed won't be looked at. They received their reward on Earth. No degrees of Hell. After judgment, the lost go to the lake of fire. Thats the Great White Throne of Judgement.. for the lost only. The saved will be judged at the Judgment Seat of Christ. Their works trialed by fire. Bad deeds are burned up.
@margovallen Another point, per Old Testament Law... we are no longer under that. We are under Grace.. the 'rules' have changed. Surely, there was degrees of sin in the Old Testament.. and it was also the Law of the Land. Just like civil / criminal law we have in our local governments. Running a red-light and robbing a bank are obviously punishable differently. Back in the OT, adultery and stealing were different.
@margovallen Forgive me, I did not see this comment. If there were degrees of sin then, there are now. God has only exalted the Law in the NT. It never saved; it is a teacher to show us our sin, to bring us to Christ.
No, it's not all the same to God. Revelation 20:11-15, the "more tolerable" judgment day verses, the "greater sin" verse from John I quoted, etc., show that sins ARE different to God.
Please show me verses that say all sins are the same in the Eyes of God.
@margovallen I'm afraid you're wrong. Otherwise, being judged by the things written in the books (for the lost, not the saved) would be worthless - they'd just be cast into the lake of fire. Also, the "more tolerable" on judgment day verses are talking about the lost, not the saved. E.g., one references Sodom and Gomorroah, certainly not saved cities.
I'm afraid your position is baseless. Also, you did not address my point about the OT Law.
@TheCrushmaster I did address your OT law point. WE NO LONGER LIVE UNDER THE OT LAW. Back in the OT, people had to keep up with living the laws to be righteous.. and if a person was caught breaking a law, they were punished immediately.. whatever punishment that particular law brought plus, they would perish if their punishment was death.. because they could not get remission of their sin w/o going to the sacrificial alter.
@margovallen That doesn't address the issue. God is the same now as if He was then. So why, then, if all sins are the same in His Sight, were there different punishments? After all, stealing a paperclip is the same as murdering women and children, isn'ti t? That doesn't even make logical sense, let alone Biblical sense.
Your position that all sins are the same is baseless. Where in Scripture do you get that? And how do you explain greater and lesser judgments, etc., etc.?
@TheCrushmaster Are you a born-again Bible-believing Christian? God is indeed the very same... but, His plan has changed from the OT to the NT.
I'm not going to argue with you. Get out your Bible and read, study and pray.... after you get saved. Then you will better understand. I'm sorry that I don't have the patience to deal with you. I've tried to explain the best way I know how.
@margovallen Yes, I am. And, even the NT supports different punishments, etc. The OT is not "gone" - it is still applicable today. If sins were different to God then, they are now, and NT verses support such.
You have given me no Scriptural evidence for your position that all sins are equal in the Eyes of God. Not a single verse, or even a principle.
You need to go to my page and watch the video, "Are You Righteous?" I am concerned for you.
@TheCrushmaster Applicable as in it is written in our hearts and minds... but, has no bearing on our eternal salvation. I am not religious... not in the least bit. I am very anti-religion. Woman of Faith here.... out and proud.
I need to go to your page? LOL!
Evidently, you've not gotten anything I've said. I suggest you read back on some of these posts... until you get it. What did I say about ALL SIN? :-)
@TheCrushmaster I believe that I expressed the fact that ALL SIN MAKES US UNFIT FOR THE KINGDOM OF GOD. So, who cares if it's a lie, petty theft or murder..... if ALL SIN MAKES US UNFIT FOR THE KINGDOM OF GOD?
We become born-again believers in Jesus Christ by faith..... and ALL SIN IS COVERED IN HIS PRECIOUS BLOOD... (other than blasphemy of the Holy Spirit... however, a Christian would not do such a thing. Just saying.)
Get it yet? :-)
The Word of God may SAY things, not actually written.
Believe in the Trinity? Because the term isn't in the Bible. We believe in the Trinity because of 'other' things mentioned that lead us to the truth of the Trinity :-)
@margovallen The Trinity has many, many verses pointing to it. Could you please share some verses that you believe point to all sins being equal in God's Eyes? No degrees of sin in God's Eyes.
@margovallen Yes, all sin does make us unfit for the Kingdom. I agree completely. But there are degrees of sin in God's Eyes, and there are varying punishments in Hell.
@margovallen Yes it is. But there will be greater and lesser judgments for them, otherwise the books would not need to be open. Also...
(Matthew 11:23-24 NKJV) - ' "And you, Capernaum, who are exalted to heaven, will be brought down to Hades; for if the mighty works which were done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. {24} "But I say to you that it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment than for you." '
@TheCrushmaster Matthew 11 is just God telling these people they're getting the same thing Sodom, etc had gotten. Destroyed.. spiritual death. All unbelievers go to Hell and await the final judgement. Then, all will be caste into the Lake of Fire... end of story. Theres no escape for any who die in an unbelieving state.. and no more or lesser punishment for any who enter into Hell. The Lake of Fire doesn't have varying degrees / temperatures.
You are misinterpreting this passage of scripture.
@TheCrushmaster Err.. uhh... uhhh.... ummmm.... err...... well? God opens the Book of Life... and those whose names are not written in it, will be caste into the Lake of Fire. Thats the judgement.
@margovallen (Revelation 20:12-13 NKJV) - "And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. {13} The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works."
@patriciacarrasco I don't know where you got that. forn./adult. most certainly affects others. Every sin is a sin against yourself, in your relationship with God.
If we look at the first and best case for sin and punishment it would be Adam,Adams sin was "Disobedience" to God so the punishment was "death" Every sin small and great falls under "disobedience"and death this is clearly stated in [James2:10]...Now there are verses that clearly apply a "degree" to sin as being more or less sinful, but this is just gauging the moral decline of a given group or situation...
buddy85442 1 month ago
This is so logical... I mean, how can EVERY sin be equal?? So It would be no difference if I decide to lie to my mom or put a bomb in a plane with hundreds of people in it??? Come on. ò_Ó
m4tbr 1 month ago
@m4tbr the idea is you are not eternal because you have sinned. the penalty for sinning is death, there are 636 sins punishable by death including blasphemy, kidnapping etc. however it is not for humans to kill. the idea is you will die a natural death, therefore breaking even one of 636 sins means death. jesus died on the cross when he committed the sin of asking god why he had forsaken him. it turns out he made a mistake. therefore he died, had he not sinned there he wouldn't have died.
ultradumbass 1 month ago
@ultradumbass ur speaking utter rubbish,Jesus never sinned.
MrUrosSrb 3 days ago
The Bible is truthful from the very first words HOLY BIBLE until the last and everything in between...you cannot make it fit your sin. Sin is not allowed in Heaven....PERIOD the end.
wendyresqlady 1 month ago
the Bible was written by men but the inspired HOLY WORD of GOD...so stop justifying and accept the WORD...repent, repent, repent.
wendyresqlady 1 month ago
1Cr 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
1Cr 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
wendyresqlady 1 month ago
STOP YELLING! Any sin, unless you repent and stop doing it, then you are not truly repentant and unless you are convicted of your sins (in which if you are convicted of them, then you would stop) then you're not really saved by the blood of Christ. 1Cr 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
wendyresqlady 1 month ago
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BUT IF YOU WANNA BE HONEST WIT YOSELF, THERRE IS NO SUCH THING AS SIN. ITS JUS RELIGIOUS MAD MADE WORD TO FRIGHTEN PEOPLE TO DO RIGHT. AND NO SUCH THING AS SINNIN AGAINST YOSELF, SAY IF SOMEONE TRIES TO HARM THEMSELVES, THATS NOT SINNIN, THATS JUS STUPID, AND IF YOU DO WRONG TO OTHERS, THATS NOT SINNIN, THATS JUS WRONG AND YOU GO TO JAIL. IN REALITY THERRE IS WHAT YOU CALL RIGHT OR WRONG, DO WRONG YOU GO TO JAIL, GOD DOES NOT CONDEMN PEOPLE, PEOPLE DO IT TO THEMSELVES GOIN TO JAIL NOT HELL
UMANEDAKIDD19 2 months ago
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THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO DONT HAVE TO WORRY SINS IS THE GAY COMMUNITY SINCE HOMOSEXUAL ACT IS NOT A SIN, CUS THE BIBLE DOES NOT CONDEMN HOMOSEXUALITY, IF YOU ACTUALLY TRANSLATE THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGE HEBREW AND GREEK TO ENGLISH, HOMOSEXUALS HAVE NOTHIN TO WORRY BOUT SINCE THE BIBLE DOES NOT CONDEMN HOMOSEXUALITY. 1) SODOM HAD NOTHIN TO DO WIT HOMOSEXUALITY, IT WAS BOUT RAPE AND IT WAS STRAIGHT MEN DOIN THE RAPE. 2) LEVITICUS WAS BOUT 3-SOME NOT HOMOSEXUALITY
UMANEDAKIDD19 2 months ago
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@UMANEDAKIDD19 IF A WOMAN AND A GUY IN BED, ANOTHER GUY CANT JOIN, THATS 3-SOME NOT HOMOSEXUALITY. PEOPLE, CHRISTIANS, NOT CHRISTIANS, I MEANT HOMOPHOBES, THATS AN INSULT TO CHRISTIANS. HOMOPHOBES VS. CHRISTIANS, A REAL CHRISTIANS DONT PREACH HOMOSEXUALITY IS A SIN, AN INTELLIGENT CHRISTIAN LIKE MY HOMEGIRL KNOWS HOW TO TRANSLATE THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGE TO ENGLISH AND THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGE DOES NOT CONDEMN HOMOSEXUALITY. ITS HOMOPHOBES WHO TWIST SHYT ROUND TO JUSTIFY HOMOPHOBIA.
UMANEDAKIDD19 2 months ago
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@UMANEDAKIDD19 AND THATS NOT WHAT CHRISTIANS ARE BOUT, ITS HOMOPHOBES WHO COVER UP HOMOPHOBIA WIT RELIGION, THAT MAKE CHRISTIANS LOOK BAD. A REAL CHRISTIAN FOLLOWS THE TEACHIN OF JESUS AND JESUS NEVER MENTIONED ANYTHING BOUT HOMOSEXUALS OR HOMOSEXUAL ACT, NOT ONCE DID HE EVER MENTIONED THAT, SO A REAL CHRISTIAN PREACHES LOVE. DONT LET HOMOPHOBES FOOL YOU, THIS WHY I HATE HOMOPHOBES CUS THEY GIVE TRUE CHRISTIANS LIKE MY HOMEGIRL A BAD NAME AND SHES TIRED OF PEOPLE DOGGIN CHRISTIANS.
UMANEDAKIDD19 2 months ago
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@UMANEDAKIDD19 DONT BE MAD AT TRUE INTELLIGENT CHRISTIANS, BE MAD AT HOMOPHOBES WHO CALL THEM CHRISTIANS CUS THEY COMIN INTO CHRISTIANITY AND TURNIN IT INTO SOMETHIN ITS NOT. THATS WHY ITS HOMOPHOBES VS. CHRISTIANS. YOU'LL KNOW WHO'S A CHRISTIAN AND WHO'S A HOMOPHOBE, A TRUE CHRISTIAN LIKE MY HOMEGIRL SAYS DOES NOT PREACH THAT HOMOSEXUAL ACT IS A SIN, BUT A HOMOPHOBE WILL PREACH IT ITS. KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A HOMOPHOBE AND A CHRISTIAN.
UMANEDAKIDD19 2 months ago
ADAM committed "one" sin "disobedience" and died for it, the ultimate price! We know the greatest commandment is "love thy God with all your heart" therefore the greatest sin is to not love God with all your heart,yet Adam loved God!We are a sinner on the first sin, not the largest sin.The first sin is unto death! the rest are academic.The bible only recorded one sin for Adam in nearly a thousand years?Doubtful Adam lived sin free his remaining years?
buddy85442 2 months ago
@buddy85442 Adam didn't love god, because he coulden't even do one simple thing. Adam preferred the devil over god, he proves that quite obviously. And like Jesus said, you cannot serve 2 masters. This is why god grieved, and this is why Adam got destroyed.
danielkirk1 2 months ago
@danielkirk1 [Mat-22:36] When Jesus was asked "which is the greatest commandment in the law?Jesus said unto him.thou shalt love the lord thy God with all thy heart"..Now if Adam had violated this, the greatest commandment then he would have been convicted of it and suffered the same death.The point is Adam committed one sin unto death not two.Adam died but was never destroyed.Adams sin was payed for by Christ on the cross, as are yours and mine. thank God
buddy85442 2 months ago
@buddy85442 I hope you are right friend! It is unclear if Adam listened to Jesus when he went back to hell (i bet we both agree he did now that i think about it properly). I was trying to justify gods decision to punish adam.
danielkirk1 2 months ago
@danielkirk1 Thank you for this fellowship,even Godly debate among believers will strengthen our faith.I feel God wants us to question him, he said to come to him as little children? and we know little children are full of questions? maybe we can encourage each other on future topics.God bless
buddy85442 2 months ago
Fooooock
1075216 4 months ago
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And the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin...If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1
NewLife1996 5 months ago
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And the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin...If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1
NewLife1996 5 months ago
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And the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin...If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1
NewLife1996 5 months ago
Excellent! Praise God!
jhoward103 5 months ago
For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.
bucklaw 6 months ago
When two gay people have a loving, monogamous relationship, they get to go to hell. If a priest molests a young boy, it gets swept under the rug and he gets "forgiven". If someone bombs an abortion clinic, he gets to go straight to heaven for doing the will of God.
Blarghonius 7 months ago
@Blarghonius I want to be careful on how I reply because i don't mean to offend but there is much you need to take into consideration. Unfortunately for people who struggle with homosexuality this sin is very deceptive to them, they can't see it for what it is. The "love" is in reality a deceitful desires that defies God. They choose to reject God. Christ can forgive the people who have committed homosexuality as well as the priest, no difference. Bombing clinics is NOT God's will, that's a lie
SeventyTimesSeven490 7 months ago
@SeventyTimesSeven490 So if that is deceptive, how can we be sure that our entire lives are nothing but massive lies? Even the faith you have could be a lie crafted by Satan.
Blarghonius 7 months ago
@Blarghonius I have chosen to seek out the truth and find logical and rational reasons for my faith. I do not choose however to simply attack the bible and Christianity blindly. If you seek out the truth and test what is called truth you will find God, if you really want to find Him he will make himself known to you.
SeventyTimesSeven490 7 months ago
@SeventyTimesSeven490 So I'll only know the truth about God and Christianity if I join your group and believe, despite the fact that your holy text, words and actions are available for all? Tell me why that's not suspicious.
Blarghonius 7 months ago
@Blarghonius Sin is real and because of your love for it you suppress the truth about God. Sin is running through mankind and that's why the world is always in so much pain and turmoil. perhaps in the eyes of a human the priest will escape judgement but unless one truly repents and accepts christ they will NOT escape judgement in hell. Same applies to people who practice homosexuality.
SeventyTimesSeven490 7 months ago
@SeventyTimesSeven490 You're assuming things about me that are not true; I don't "love sin" and have my own moral code based on the fact that my actions have impact on others. I also don't rely on a concept like hell to back up my ideals. The world is full of suffering because people refuse to see each others as equals and act unjustly towards each other. Don't bother using a mystical explanation when a simple logical one will do.
Blarghonius 7 months ago
@Blarghonius And on a more personal level I've been graced by God to have been saved though I struggle with desiring the sin of homosexuality. I didn't go to some camp I simply trusted in Christ and received a new heart. I'm not saying it didn't kill me to die to my former passions just that I gave up my sin and find joy in Christ. It's a blessing to keep God's commandments not something that comes through a self-hate camp. I bear my cross, and it huhurts to die to self daily.Pick up your cross
SeventyTimesSeven490 7 months ago
@SeventyTimesSeven490 I have my own burdens; it's called living my life and working to make things better for myself. Acknowledging the self isn't dying; it's the opposite.
Blarghonius 7 months ago
@Blarghonius We are all the same w/o Christ. None of us know it until the gospel is preached. We all sin and become our own reference as to what righteousness is and never see our own sin. Anyone who does not love God loves their sin :( When I say self I'm referring to the sinful desires in my body such as desires to lie, steal, lust, and be selfish etc. This "self" is selfishness, keeping God given life for yourself, not serving your Creator, trying to be God in your life is what you are doing.
SeventyTimesSeven490 7 months ago
@SeventyTimesSeven490 We are all people regardless. Separating people based on something other than their actions is unjust, and saying that anyone who doesn't follow you is evil is a false dichotomy, even if that thought makes you sad. Your definition of self is also skewed drastically towards the negative. Also, being in control of my own life is bad?
Blarghonius 7 months ago
@Blarghonius People sin, that is their action apart from Christ. Failing to judge people for their sin would be unjust. What is unjust is that Christ came and DIED as a sacrifice to atone for our sin and you reject the only one who can save you. I think even if you truly abserved people you would see the evil within them apart from Christ. And yes, you can not overcome sin so your idea of control is truly just bondage to sin that's why you need Christ to guide you and lead you.
SeventyTimesSeven490 7 months ago
@SeventyTimesSeven490 So freedom is slavery and vice versa? How does that make sense?
Blarghonius 7 months ago
@Blarghonius The beauty of the gospel is that God does not leave us to just run into hell so helplessly. He gave his son to us though he never had to. When God unveils the gospel you have a choice, to follow him or deny him. He loves you man and desires your heart. A love that causes God to give us his beloved son to reconcile us to himself after we have rejected and hated him. This is the gospel man. I hope you don't reject this,you will want to because it is the truth,just an eternal warning.
SeventyTimesSeven490 7 months ago
@SeventyTimesSeven490 Two questions:
1) If Jesus came back to life, how is that a sacrifice?
2) How is that a fair choice if one option results in eternal punishment?
Also, only one person is getting access to my heart; she is incredibly dear to me and I am completely certain that she exists.
Blarghonius 7 months ago
@Blarghonius
1)The Father gives his only son to DIE. Yes He was resurrected but he died and it was not something He had to do rather He did it out of love. He suffered the wrath of God and the punishment of eternal hell for all who would trust in Him and had trusted in Him. This is extreme so you can understand. If your wife cut off her arm so you wouldn't have to and then had it replaced was it not a sacrifice to lose her arm in place of yours tho she has a new arm?
SeventyTimesSeven490 7 months ago
@SeventyTimesSeven490 You forget something; for your metaphor to be correct, my wife would need to be punishing me for something I didn't do but someone else did a long time before I even existed, and then offer her removal of an arm to assist me because I'm a wicked person for being punished. Sure, your metaphor makes a little sense in its own context but that's not what the Bible says happened.
Blarghonius 7 months ago
@Blarghonius Sin came through Adam and death through sin therefore all men are punished because we would have done the same. The punishment that Christ so gracefully takes away is yours alone because you reject Christ. You are no different from Adam in that you have sinned against God. Well apply the little sense to Christ and I hope that helps a little.
SeventyTimesSeven490 7 months ago
@SeventyTimesSeven490 That's a massive assumption that anyone would have done the same and you're willing to base your entire system of morality on that?
Blarghonius 7 months ago
@Blarghonius
[14] and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.
(1 Timothy 2:14 ESV)
Adam was not deceived, God clearly told him
[16] And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, “You may surely eat of every tree of the garden, [17] but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”
(Genesis 2:16-17 ESV)
Eve was deceived but Adam was not, he made a choice to rebel against God.
SeventyTimesSeven490 7 months ago
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SeventyTimesSeven490 7 months ago
@Blarghonius
2)It is a fair choice because unfortunately Adam and Eve represented all of us. When we disobeyed God in the garden it would have been perfectly just for everyone from the start to be sent to hell on account of their sin. So you and I never deserved anything more than hell after we sinned. So when God says, even tho you deserve hell I will give my son so that you can be with me forever I think it is excruciating when his children reject him. He gave you the choice of Christ.
SeventyTimesSeven490 7 months ago
@SeventyTimesSeven490 What a wicked and twisted view of morality. We we're there when that happened. He had no choice at all in the matter. Yet, we are still being punished. Punishing someone for someone else's crime is innately unjust. From what you're saying, God's wrath is a separate entity from his mercy, or he wants to have it both ways, so he's either fragmented or a hypocrite or some other illogical possibility. How is any of that just or reasonable?
Blarghonius 7 months ago
@Blarghonius He definitely had a choice, he had to become a man first because he chose to do so out of love NOT any form of obligation. Only those who continually reject Christ are punished, I am not because I have trusted in his sacrifice.
1 Corinthians 5:21
For our sake he made him to be sin, who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
He take sin away and places his holiness on us so that we do not suffer hell.
SeventyTimesSeven490 7 months ago
@SeventyTimesSeven490 No, he did not have a choice. He was tempted by Satan, whom the perfect God let into the garden. Do you seriously believe that a being on a level high enough to challenge God couldn't convince an naive mortal to do something, especially when he is a master of deception?
Blarghonius 7 months ago
@Blarghonius
[12] Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned—
(Romans 5:12 ESV) It's not a comforting truth but it is the truth at that
SeventyTimesSeven490 7 months ago
@SeventyTimesSeven490 Quoting an old book with no evidence for its texts outside of itself doesn't prove your point. You are continuing to draw morality from a source that is innately immoral, supposedly inspired by a being who flouts his own rules. You cannot draw morality from someone who is not moral.
Blarghonius 7 months ago
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SeventyTimesSeven490 7 months ago
@SeventyTimesSeven490 When you realize you cannot disprove the resurrection of Christ you are forced to accept the bible as truth. That is when the self-centered life is crucified and new joyful life in Christ is found. I urge you to study and test the bible, because if you do with an open heart and mind and as objectively as possible you will discover the truth of God's word. Happy Christ seeking :)
SeventyTimesSeven490 7 months ago
@SeventyTimesSeven490 You have no idea how logic works, do you? If the fact that you couldn't disprove something means it is true, why aren't we all worshiping giant floating invisible cats made solely of purple acrylic paint that have worked with the Illuminati to cover every piece of evidence of their existence with 100% success? There's no solid physical proof that they don't exist.
Blarghonius 6 months ago
@Blarghonius Jesus is who Christians worship, we know our God and he knows us perfectly well. We know God through Christ, the exact imprint of God the Father. Jesus is the rock and foundation of our faith. He has provided sufficient reason to have faith in him. If you reject what he has shown you through the world itself and his beloved Son the weight of condemnation falls on solely you. Humble yourself and seek your God. God bless man, I'd love to continue but you have made a choice.PrayerTime!
SeventyTimesSeven490 6 months ago
@SeventyTimesSeven490 Yes, of course my condemnation is my fault instead of the fault of the one doing the condemning. Also, if he has provided "sufficient reason" to believe he exists, why isn't everyone already convinced? Surely a mere "love of sin" won't keep people away from the truth. People everywhere, not just in countries where Christianity if present, should be setting up churches and attending masses.
Blarghonius 6 months ago
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SeventyTimesSeven490 6 months ago
@Blarghonius "Yes, of course my condemnation is my fault instead of the fault of the one doing the condemning"
That's like saying it is the states fault for punishing the man who murdered his innocent family. That's an absurd statement, the murderer transgressed the law and deserves punishment. Just like one who sins.
Secondly, b4 Christ, mankind is self righteousness and think they are "good" and do not need God and will do anything to continue living in sin. Pride=sin,and is the fault ofMANY
SeventyTimesSeven490 6 months ago
@SeventyTimesSeven490 There's a difference between the state and God; the state has a logical, moral reason for its laws, that being the good of its citizens. The law of the state isn't just there like the law of God is. The law of God is based on the completely arbitrary whims of a being whose true motives are unknown and whose existence is suspect.
Blarghonius 6 months ago
@SeventyTimesSeven490 Hold on. If mankind is as you describe it, certainly those who don't believe would not be a minority. Usually, the opposite is true; people flock to religion for easy answers to difficult choices and questions and to obtain a supposed moral high ground on their peers. Also, if pride is a sin, how come God, who demanded that all of humanity only worship him and nothing else, isn't a black pit of the evil stuff?
Blarghonius 6 months ago
@Blarghonius "An old book with no evidence for its texts" That is a groundless statement. I'm sure you feel that way about the bible but the bible is 100% reliable and true...carm.org/manuscript-evidence. I can't write that all here so check that website before you make empty statements like the bible is unreliable. Secondly the crucifixion and the empty tomb is impossible to logically and reasonably/historically disprove further testifying to the bible's claims.
SeventyTimesSeven490 7 months ago
@SeventyTimesSeven490 I'm not going to accept evidence from a biased group with obvious self-interest in saying that the Bible is true. Secondly, it's hard to disprove a claim of an event for which there is no evidence of actually happening.
Blarghonius 7 months ago
@Blarghonius I'm testifying to God's truth I would be that me testifying of Jesus would bring you to faith but I can see that you are an intellectual and like you I couldn't simply take someone's word, not even God's word (bible). Like I said before this is a start and I'm inviting you to seek the truth as objectively as possible. Not based on just me but your own study of Christianity. Don't do it with a hard heart(biased against it) as I did. My interest is for you to know God not self-interes
SeventyTimesSeven490 6 months ago
@Blarghonius I strongly encourage you to seek God's face and the truth of his word. I know you will find that the bible is 100% truth and God's works and the resurrection testify to Jesus and the bible. Like I said I encourage you out of the love I have received from God because I want you to know God. And the evidence is there, you have either suppressed it or simply do not know of it. Seek truth, seek Christ. Don't take my word for it, discover it for yourself, I did and found God. God bless
SeventyTimesSeven490 6 months ago
@SeventyTimesSeven490 I've looked. I've seen the world for what it is and seen people and their actions. I've weighed the options. Through this, I have found that God is nearly indistinguishable from a guess a bunch of ignorant men thought up when they wondered how the universe worked. Your god is a permanent "maybe".
Blarghonius 6 months ago
@Blarghonius My bad, I'm a man still in this fleshy body so I make mistakes lol I meant 2 Corinthians 5:21. Please forgive my mistake if it caused confusion
SeventyTimesSeven490 7 months ago
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@SeventyTimesSeven490 YOU'RE NOT A CHRISTIAN, YOU'RE A HOMOPHOBE. MY HOMEGIRL WHO IS A CHRISTIAN, SAID THERRES DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A CHRISTIAN AND A HOMOPHOBE. A CHRISTIAN DOES NOT PREACH HOMOSEXUALITY IS A SIN, A HOMOPHOBE PREACHES THAT. SHE SAID A TRUE INTELLIGENT CHRISTIAN KNOWS HOW TO TRANSLATE THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGE OF THE BIBLE TO ENGLISH, AND THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGE DOES NOT CONDEMN HOMOSEXUALITY. HOMOPHOBES TWIST SHYT ROUND TO JUSTIFY HOMOPHOBIA.
UMANEDAKIDD19 2 months ago
@SeventyTimesSeven490 THE BIBLE VERSES HOMOPHOBES MISINTERPRET AND BRAINWASH INTO PEOPLE, 1) SODOM AND GOMORRAH, THAT HAD NOTHIN TO DO WIT HOMOSEXUALITY AKA CONSENSUAL SEX, IT WAS BOUT RAPE, FORCEFUL SEX, IT WAS STRAIGHT GUYS FORCIN THEMSELVES ON OTHERS, THATS NOT HOMOSEXUALITY, THATS WHAT YOU CALL RAPE, TWO DIFFERENT THINGS, SODOM STORY CONDEMNED RAPE NOT HOMOSEXUALITY, LEARN TO TRANSLATE THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGE TO ENGLISH, YOU'LL KNOW, NOT WHAT HOMOPHOBES MISINTERPRET.
UMANEDAKIDD19 2 months ago
@UMANEDAKIDD19 Are you saying the Bible does not speak against homosexuality?
markman090 1 month ago
@markman090 IT DOESNT, HOMOPHOBIC TRANSLATORS WHO TRANSLATED IT WRONG. THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGE OF THE BIBLE SAYS NOTHIN BOUT HOMOSEXUALS OR HOMOSEXUAL ACT BEIN A SIN. JESUS SAID NOTHIN BOUT IT EITHER. IT WAS HOMOPHOBIC TRANSLATORS WHO NEVER PRAYED WIT JESUS, ATE WIT JESUS, HOMOPHOBIC TRANSLATORS WHO TRANSLATED IT WRONG ADDED HOMOSEXUALITY TO JUSTIFY THERRE HOMOPHOBIA
UMANEDAKIDD19 1 month ago
@UMANEDAKIDD19 Please read Romans 1 verse 24-28. Also read Matthew 19:4-5.
markman090 1 month ago
@markman090 IVE READ IT BUT THATS NOT JESUS SAYIN IT. YOU CANT FIND A VERSE WHERRE JESUS SAID IT CUS HE NEVER DID, YOU'LL NEVER FIND A VERSE FROM JESUS SAYIN HOMOSEXUALS OR HOMOSEXUAL ACT IS A SIN OR AN ABOMINATION. STOP MAKIN A FOOL OF YOSELF, YOU QUOTIN WHAT HOMOPHOBIC TRANSLATORS SAY, YOU'RE NOT QUOTIN JESUS.
UMANEDAKIDD19 1 month ago
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@UMANEDAKIDD19 Matthew 19:4-5. is Jesus speaking. So...whos making a fool of who?
markman090 1 month ago
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@SeventyTimesSeven490 2) LEVITICUS, ANOTHER ONE HOMOPHOBES MISINTERPRET OR TWIST SHYT ROUND TO JUSTIFY THEY HOMOPHOBIA, LEVITICUS HAD NOTHIN TO DO WIT HOMOSEXUALITY, IT WAS BOUT 3-SOME, A WOMAN AND GUY IN BED TOGETHER, ANOTHER GUY CANT JOIN, THATS 3-SOME NOT HOMOSEXUALITY, BUT HOMOPHOBES AGAIN LOVE TO TWIST SHYT ROUND TO JUSTIFY HOMOPHOBIA. YOU MIGHT WANNA RESEARCH THESE THINGS BEFORE TALKIN WHAT YOU DONT KNOW CUS YOU'VE BEEN BRAINWASHED AND YOU TOOK IT AS THE TRUTH
UMANEDAKIDD19 2 months ago
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@SeventyTimesSeven490 3) CORINTHIANS, WAS BOUT WOMEN NOT GUYS, AGAIN THAT HAD NOTHIN TO DO WIT HOMOSEXUALITY. DONT BELIEVE ME, GO RESEARCH YOSELF, WHEN YOU KNOW HOW TO TRANSLATE THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGE TO ENGLISH, YOU'LL BE SHOCKED TO FIND OUT THAT THE BIBLE DOES NOT CONDEMN HOMOSEXUALITY AND YOU'VE BEEN FED BULLSHYT LIES BY HOMOPHOBES. HOMOPHOBES WHO CALL THEMSELVES CHRISTIANS ARENT CHRISTIANS. HOMOPHOBES COME INTO CHRISTIANITY TURNIN IT INTO SOMETHIN ITS NOT. WAKE UP HERRE
UMANEDAKIDD19 2 months ago
@Blarghonius God is not impartial, He will judge each person according to their works unless they have been redeemed by Christ and their redemption will prove itself true when their lives reflect Christ. People must repent, which means to "turn away from their sin" and accept Christ. Only then can they be truly forgiven. Again, both the men who struggle with homosexuality and the man titled priest who molested the child are both offered forgiveness of their sins if they repent and trust Christ.
SeventyTimesSeven490 7 months ago
@SeventyTimesSeven490 "man titled priest"
No True Scotsman is a fallacy, not an arguing point.
Also, sin is a creation of religion and has no bearing outside religious matters. Also, the two gay men have to go through a soul-destroying "conversion" camp where they will be forced to hate themselves while the priest can just say a few prayers and get off for just a minute of his time. Don't tell me those are the same.
Blarghonius 7 months ago
am yet to please myself,talk less of god.
ifeness24 7 months ago
If a poor man (sins) by stealing food to eat .... I don't think this is a bigger sin than a man that rapes & murders a woman. So there are some sins that are worse than other sins.
savana906 7 months ago
Jesus said the wicked would be judged "according to their deeds". It doesn't seem likely He would say that if all sins were equal.
88momart 8 months ago
When the Bible talks about degrees of sin, that has to do with man.. and how the law.. the authorities will punish. When I say there are no degrees of sin in the eyes of God... I am talking about our sin against Him.
I thought my face was blue enough trying to explain my POV... but, I'll settle for purple :-)
margovallen 8 months ago
@margovallen "When the Bible talks about degrees of sin, that has to do with man.. and how the law.. the authorities will punish."
...Excepts Christ called Judas delivering Him to Pilate a greater sin that what Pilate will do. And Christ said some will be punished less - talking about unbelievers.
TheCrushmaster 8 months ago
@TheCrushmaster Actually, He was speaking of Judas not being able to repent, as he will hang himself. Pilate would still have a chance for salvation.
margovallen 8 months ago
@margovallen I apologize for not getting back to you sooner; having difficulties earlier.
I'm afraid that's simply not in the text. Here's the verse again: (John 19 :11 NKJV) - "Jesus answered, "You could have no power at all against Me unless it had been given you from above. Therefore the one who delivered Me to you has the greater sin."
TheCrushmaster 8 months ago
The verse in James is 2:10.
Michaelrwright92 8 months ago
There is NO DEGREE OF SIN in the eyes of the Lord.... OTHER THAN the blaspheming of the Holy Spirit.
To God, a "white" lie and murder are all the same. All sin makes us unclean and unfit for the Kingdom of God.
Jesus died FOR ALL and since love does not force and love does not insist on it's own way.. God, in His love for us, gives us free-will. Jesus died for ALL and salvation has been made available to ALL but, we have the choice to accept or reject.
Anyone who believes otherwise, is lost.
margovallen 8 months ago
@margovallen Well then, according to that, I am lost.
What do you make of this verse? (John 19:11 NKJV) - ' "Jesus answered, "You could have no power at all against Me unless it had been given you from above. Therefore the one who delivered Me to you has the greater sin." '
TheCrushmaster 8 months ago
@TheCrushmaster Per the passage of scripture, I'm thinking Jesus is talking about the act of "betrayal" on the part of Judas.. being worse than what Pilate could deliver. If this verse is all you have to counter my 'no degree of sin' comment.. well? :-)
If you believe on and trust in Jesus Christ for your eternal salvation, you're not lost :-)
margovallen 8 months ago
@margovallen No, it's not near all I have. But it talks about a "greater sin", thus meaning there are "lesser" and "greater" sins. Greater cannot exist without a lesser.
TheCrushmaster 8 months ago
@TheCrushmaster Well, I'm not exactly sure whats being actually 'said'.. in the passage of scripture you provided. My original point is the fact that, all sin makes us unclean and unfit for the Kingdom of God. So, hell is hell.. and thats exactly where those of whom go for eternity if they're not made justified in Jesus Christ, period! Are there degrees of hell?
If you have other scripture that may point to there being 'degrees of sin'.. I'd appreciate your pointing those out to me, please :-)
margovallen 8 months ago
@margovallen Yes, there are degrees of punishment in Hell. Go to Revelation 20:11-15 - they describe the unsaved as being judged according to their works. Also: Matthew 15:10, etc. (search phrase "more tolerable" in the NKJV) references greater and lesser judgments.
Another point is the Old Testament Law. If all sins are the same in the Eyes of God, why were there different punishments?
Etc. I apologize I cannot go into more detail; there's not much room. Would you rather discuss this via PM?
TheCrushmaster 8 months ago
@TheCrushmaster The only "works" God will be interested in per the unjust, are whether or not they believed on Jesus Christ. Any "good" works the lost performed won't be looked at. They received their reward on Earth. No degrees of Hell. After judgment, the lost go to the lake of fire. Thats the Great White Throne of Judgement.. for the lost only. The saved will be judged at the Judgment Seat of Christ. Their works trialed by fire. Bad deeds are burned up.
Whatevers left, determines our rewards.
margovallen 8 months ago
@margovallen Another point, per Old Testament Law... we are no longer under that. We are under Grace.. the 'rules' have changed. Surely, there was degrees of sin in the Old Testament.. and it was also the Law of the Land. Just like civil / criminal law we have in our local governments. Running a red-light and robbing a bank are obviously punishable differently. Back in the OT, adultery and stealing were different.
New Testament, it's all the same to God.
margovallen 8 months ago
@margovallen Forgive me, I did not see this comment. If there were degrees of sin then, there are now. God has only exalted the Law in the NT. It never saved; it is a teacher to show us our sin, to bring us to Christ.
No, it's not all the same to God. Revelation 20:11-15, the "more tolerable" judgment day verses, the "greater sin" verse from John I quoted, etc., show that sins ARE different to God.
Please show me verses that say all sins are the same in the Eyes of God.
TheCrushmaster 8 months ago
@margovallen I'm afraid you're wrong. Otherwise, being judged by the things written in the books (for the lost, not the saved) would be worthless - they'd just be cast into the lake of fire. Also, the "more tolerable" on judgment day verses are talking about the lost, not the saved. E.g., one references Sodom and Gomorroah, certainly not saved cities.
I'm afraid your position is baseless. Also, you did not address my point about the OT Law.
TheCrushmaster 8 months ago
@TheCrushmaster I did address your OT law point. WE NO LONGER LIVE UNDER THE OT LAW. Back in the OT, people had to keep up with living the laws to be righteous.. and if a person was caught breaking a law, they were punished immediately.. whatever punishment that particular law brought plus, they would perish if their punishment was death.. because they could not get remission of their sin w/o going to the sacrificial alter.
New Testament = whole new deal.
I'm saved.. it's hardly 'baseless."
margovallen 8 months ago
@margovallen That doesn't address the issue. God is the same now as if He was then. So why, then, if all sins are the same in His Sight, were there different punishments? After all, stealing a paperclip is the same as murdering women and children, isn'ti t? That doesn't even make logical sense, let alone Biblical sense.
Your position that all sins are the same is baseless. Where in Scripture do you get that? And how do you explain greater and lesser judgments, etc., etc.?
TheCrushmaster 8 months ago
@TheCrushmaster Are you a born-again Bible-believing Christian? God is indeed the very same... but, His plan has changed from the OT to the NT.
I'm not going to argue with you. Get out your Bible and read, study and pray.... after you get saved. Then you will better understand. I'm sorry that I don't have the patience to deal with you. I've tried to explain the best way I know how.
Blessings!
margovallen 8 months ago
@margovallen Yes, I am. And, even the NT supports different punishments, etc. The OT is not "gone" - it is still applicable today. If sins were different to God then, they are now, and NT verses support such.
You have given me no Scriptural evidence for your position that all sins are equal in the Eyes of God. Not a single verse, or even a principle.
You need to go to my page and watch the video, "Are You Righteous?" I am concerned for you.
God bless you.
TheCrushmaster 8 months ago
@TheCrushmaster Applicable as in it is written in our hearts and minds... but, has no bearing on our eternal salvation. I am not religious... not in the least bit. I am very anti-religion. Woman of Faith here.... out and proud.
I need to go to your page? LOL!
Evidently, you've not gotten anything I've said. I suggest you read back on some of these posts... until you get it. What did I say about ALL SIN? :-)
Thanks.
margovallen 8 months ago
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@margovallen No...it doesn't have any bearing on our salvation. We are saved by Christ, andChrist alone.
"What did I say about ALL SIN?"
"There is NO DEGREE OF SIN in the eyes of the Lord.... OTHER THAN the blaspheming of the Holy Spirit.
To God, a "white" lie and murder are all the same. All sin makes us unclean and unfit for the Kingdom of God."
Prove this claim from Scripture - that there are no degrees of sin in God's Eyes.
TheCrushmaster 8 months ago
@TheCrushmaster I believe that I expressed the fact that ALL SIN MAKES US UNFIT FOR THE KINGDOM OF GOD. So, who cares if it's a lie, petty theft or murder..... if ALL SIN MAKES US UNFIT FOR THE KINGDOM OF GOD?
We become born-again believers in Jesus Christ by faith..... and ALL SIN IS COVERED IN HIS PRECIOUS BLOOD... (other than blasphemy of the Holy Spirit... however, a Christian would not do such a thing. Just saying.)
Get it yet? :-)
The Word of God may SAY things, not actually written.
margovallen 8 months ago
Believe in the Trinity? Because the term isn't in the Bible. We believe in the Trinity because of 'other' things mentioned that lead us to the truth of the Trinity :-)
margovallen 8 months ago
@margovallen The Trinity has many, many verses pointing to it. Could you please share some verses that you believe point to all sins being equal in God's Eyes? No degrees of sin in God's Eyes.
TheCrushmaster 8 months ago
@TheCrushmaster Where is the word "TRINITY" in the Bible? Do you ever read what a person types?
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
margovallen 8 months ago
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@margovallen ...1 Corinthians 6:9-10 says that those people will not inherit the Kingdom of God. That means nothing about sins being the same.
TheCrushmaster 8 months ago
@margovallen Yes, all sin does make us unfit for the Kingdom. I agree completely. But there are degrees of sin in God's Eyes, and there are varying punishments in Hell.
TheCrushmaster 8 months ago
@TheCrushmaster Whatever! Who cares? Hell is HELL!!!!
You're showing your ass. Seems you like to argue for the sake of arguing :-)
margovallen 8 months ago
@margovallen There's no need to resort to profanity.
I don't deny that Hell is Hell. But there will be lesser and greater punishments in it.
TheCrushmaster 8 months ago
@TheCrushmaster 2 Peter 2:16 But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.
Profanity? :-)
margovallen 8 months ago
@margovallen Depends on how you use the word. I must have misunderstood you. Forgive me.
TheCrushmaster 8 months ago
@margovallen Here's an article on the subject: wwwDOTcarmDOTorg/questions-sins-equal
Just replace "DOT" with a period.
Also: did you look up the verses I referenced? Revelation 20:11-15, etc.?
TheCrushmaster 8 months ago
@TheCrushmaster Yes, I looked them up... and Revelation 20 is about the judgement of the unbelievers.
margovallen 8 months ago
@margovallen Yes it is. But there will be greater and lesser judgments for them, otherwise the books would not need to be open. Also...
(Matthew 11:23-24 NKJV) - ' "And you, Capernaum, who are exalted to heaven, will be brought down to Hades; for if the mighty works which were done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. {24} "But I say to you that it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment than for you." '
TheCrushmaster 8 months ago
@TheCrushmaster Matthew 11 is just God telling these people they're getting the same thing Sodom, etc had gotten. Destroyed.. spiritual death. All unbelievers go to Hell and await the final judgement. Then, all will be caste into the Lake of Fire... end of story. Theres no escape for any who die in an unbelieving state.. and no more or lesser punishment for any who enter into Hell. The Lake of Fire doesn't have varying degrees / temperatures.
You are misinterpreting this passage of scripture.
margovallen 8 months ago
@margovallen ...Err...no, it says it will be more tolerable in the day of judgment than for certain people.
How am I misinterpreting it? Why will they be judged out of the books if their punishments will be the exact same?
TheCrushmaster 8 months ago
@TheCrushmaster Err.. uhh... uhhh.... ummmm.... err...... well? God opens the Book of Life... and those whose names are not written in it, will be caste into the Lake of Fire. Thats the judgement.
margovallen 8 months ago
@margovallen (Revelation 20:12-13 NKJV) - "And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. {13} The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works."
TheCrushmaster 8 months ago
I think this is a great explanation, hope Piper doesn't mind if I incorporate it in my devotion tomorrow!
MackJentza 11 months ago
so let me get this straight. you say that levels of sin are only applicable to men, but to God, any sin is equal, correct?
tDISCIPLEt 11 months ago
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SaintMichael1000 1 year ago
This explanation is rather accurate, I like it.
kvmairforce 1 year ago 5
Paul talks about certain sins leading unto death and some not leading unto death. I think adultery was one of them.
T2Todd2 1 year ago
@T2Todd2 fornication/adultery is seen as a sin against your won body which distinguishes it from the rest
patriciacarrasco 1 year ago
@patriciacarrasco I don't know where you got that. forn./adult. most certainly affects others. Every sin is a sin against yourself, in your relationship with God.
kenfo0 10 months ago
WOW... the man is of God.
Phajpahee50 1 year ago
I love you Piper! I freakin love you! I have been trying to work through this for ages, finally clicks thanks Pipe bomb!
Insaneplanetman 1 year ago 8
Pipe bomb lol :p
RenegadeMaster07 1 year ago
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who likes girls in tight jeans? My boy says its hot as hell
mariamakenzie287 2 years ago
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Being a Nigger is the biggest sin against God.
straken9k1 2 years ago
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and how do you be a "nigger" exactly?
oopzUsuck 2 years ago
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Be black or liking blacks.
straken9k1 2 years ago