The problem of their failures is not that these currencies are Fiat, the problem is that the BANKS backing these currencies are allowed to practice FRACTIONAL RESERVE BANKING
This is the true driving force behind inflation!
This is how they "print" more money: multiplication of the money supply through loaning constituent deposits, to make new deposits, to make new loans, to make new deposits, to make new loans, to make new deposits, and so on...It becomes a black hole no dollar can escape!
Any sustainable society will ultimately depend on some version of fiat currency. The practice of it's use in modern economies still has many things to teach us. Yes, the current system is busted but don't assume that it can't be applied in more effective way. There are 7 billion people on this planet! A reserve currency could never be sufficient for the kind of population we now have to account for.
The problem with any fiat currency..... is the QUANTITY that is printed. Each additional note printed brings down the value of previous notes. No wars could ever be faught if our currencies were only gold and silver...as these have to be horded as TRUE WEALTH. History is repeating itself, as it always does. How we come out of this mess is yet to be determined.....if at all. And bankers will do what ever they can to lure us in this mess again.
@ajfelix67 then let each nation go to it's soverieng currencies, but do not let their leaders back back door deals on how to exchange it....to leverage it as a weapon.
interesting thing about coin is that made out metal hold there value and become more valuable than name plate value. The 2000 golden dollar is worth more than dollar. I away kept it because It knew it be worth more in dollars some day.
That the currency is fiat has nothing to do with it's devaluation over time. What does? A combination of two things. 1) A lack of fiscal discipline on behalf of the controllers of the currency, and 2) A lack of competition in the currency market.
Competing fiat currencies would solve the devaluation problem, because if you are devaluing your currency, people will stop using it. Money monopolies within central banking systems are the common factor for all of the failed currencies.
@TashiRogo You are correct, but one has to wonder why anyone would 'start' using a fiat currency without being compelled to by law. I am perfectly willing to accept gold or silver, because it has a known value, it is itself a commodity. But why should I ever accept some new XYZ fiat currency when it has absolutely zero actual value? Why would one of them be worth a loaf of bread? Why not a million of them for a loaf of bread? If you were a baker, what would you accept for a loaf of bread?
@Panpiper If gold has "actual value" and fiat money has "zero actual value" then you would never be able to exchange one for the other, yet you can. Why? Because fiat currency does have real value. Is this value from the government decree that it is money? No. The government decree in Zimbabwe means little there. The value comes from its ability to be used as a store of value over time. The value is in its stability. Fiat monies today are all inflationary, yet still -relatively- stable.
@TashiRogo I am sorry but you are flat out wrong. The only reason fiat currencies have that store of value is precisely because of government decree. The fiat currency of Zimbabwe is worthless because they have so grossly overinflated their currency, not because the government decree is worthless. You can exchange fiat currency for gold for the simple reason that governments have told the merchant that if they don't accept the fiat currency, they go to jail (basically).
@Panpiper But your argument isn't that Zimbabwe's currency is worthless. It is that ALL fiat currencies are worthless. So how can Zimbabwe's be less than worthless? If you would be less likely to accept Zimbabwe Dollars for gold than Swiss Franks, then Swiss Francs obviously have more value or you wouldn't care. What makes the Zimbabwean Dollar less valuable is precisely the reason you stated... it is being grossly overinflated. In other words, it can't store value. Decrees are extraneous.
@TashiRogo That is not my argument. I am not stating that all 'existent' fiat currencies are worthless, I did state that any new such fiat currency would be fundamentally worthless, unless forced upon the people by government decree. How many ounces of your gold will you give me for my newfangled 'gerfunkle' currency? See the problem? How much gold will you give me for my pound of silver? Now we can do business. See my point?
@Panpiper The decree establishes the monopoly, but the value is determined by the management decisions the monopoly makes. History has many examples of currency establishment. You just say "here it is" and give initial exchange rates for the 'gerfunkle' relative to the value of other things in the marketplace at the time of its establishment. It's like changing your money for other money in a foreign country. Personally, I would prefer competing currencies without decrees. Including gold.
@ninetales1234 Bitcoin does not meet the definition of a fiat currency. The hallmark of a fiat currency is that it is mandated by a governmental decree. Bitcoin on the other hand is a voluntary currency which makes all the difference in the world.
All this talk about tokens of exchange. "Tokens of exchange, tokens of exchange, tokens of exchange." "There are fake tokens of exchange, and there are real tokens of exchange." Someone PLEASE tell me the difference between "fake" tokens of exchange and "real" tokens of exchange, because quite honestly, I don't see any. What I do see as having value is LAND. Everyone needs it, there's definitely a limited supply, and it's the source of everything people need to survive.
@LeksServices - Before you all get crazy about how "tokens of exchange are 'not money,'" let me explain. If we started trading using wooden coins, then those wooden coins would all serve as tokens of exchange. They would be, in your language, "money." As long as we can all agree on the relative value of each token of exchange, they can be universal. A real example of this is the Linden Dollar. It's a token of exchange, but it has a thriving economy that uses it exclusively.
@LeksServices - It does not matter what you use as your token of exchange. It does not matter what form it takes, or how 'worthless' the tokens are worth. In point of fact, when you go with a "cashless" economy, where the physical tokens are completely eliminated, then the relative value of the tokens themselves has absolutely no bearing on the economy what so ever. But the amount of available land effects everyone. What if we decided to get rid of 99% of our farmland?
@LeksServices - It's worth noting, with considerable irony, that a rich man who owns most of the land could do precisely that simply for monetary greed. Farming would be lucrative if he carefully avoided farming most of his land. And even though you claim "there's always new competition," please remember YOU CAN'T JUST POOF NEW LAND IN TO EXISTENCE! That's so important to understand in this dictatorial system you're all promoting. Once a few families own all the land, you're fucked.
@LeksServices "Once a few families own all the land, you're fucked."
Absolutely. Let's see. We have the US family, the China family, the Canadian family ......
Try leaving their land. You just go to another family's land. That is if they let you go. They don't always. That's why they have border guards. With WEAPONS.
How do you counter the argument, "gold standard currencies don't grow with a growing economy"? Forgive for my lack of economic knowledge, I'm more of a science guy.
@Chickenwing1313 First off, the gold supply 'does' grow. Mining right now expands the gold supply by a tad less than 2%. If an economy grows more than that, the relative value of gold would go up prompting yet more mining. Secondly, it is 'not' a disaster to an economy if prices fall. They do all the time in some industries and they do just fine. If an economy grew faster than the gold supply, prices would naturally fall as a result, making savings that much more lucrative.
@ArgosSmith2009 If anything it may move in a similar fashion to precious metals in relation to paper currency. Bitcoins are only created as fast as users can create new blocks so they do not lose value very quickly. By this metric, if you consider that paper currency is always losing value and bitcoins are relatively steady then the dollar price of a bitcoin should increase over time. That said, bitcoins are not all that popular to hold and comparatively not widely used.
@ArgosSmith2009 Bitcoin is still just a crazy experiment that nobody accepts in exchange for goods and services except for a few lunatics who are willing to quite literally give something of value away in exchange for an idealist's dream. In a currency crisis, people will be looking for alternatives. A few might accept bitcoins. Virtually everyone will accept barter with actual commodity goods, such as gold and silver.
This is all old news , i live in England and so i come under that old fiat currency , i own gold and silver and will carry on to do so , i highly recommend other's to hold precious metals as well , a must read if you like this subject is Micheal Maloney book, investing in gld & slv , it's more about the demise of failed fiat currencies , we only have to look at the dollar and the Euro , thing's do not look good , you cannot print precious metals , that takes blood , sweat tears loss of life
Money as a commodity is about to die. Using precious metals to back currency is dead and buried. But there is another solution. Money backed by REAL goods and services. I URGE YOU TO CHECK OUT THESE SHORT VIDEOS ON YOUTUBE. The first to watch is called "THE ESSENCE OF MONEY" and the second is called "DIGITAL COIN" - both created by the Canadian artist Paul Grignon (the man behind the "Money as Debt" series of videos.
Please take a moment to consider a possible solution!
@dfoxmaster Precious metal just happens to be a "REAL good". It has survived historically as 'the' real good most suited to being used as money for a whole host of great reasons. If there was some other good that worked better than precious metals, it would have been used instead of precious metals. As for accepting as economic authority the notions of a single artist rather than say, Austrian economics, well...
@Panpiper Why restrict our means of exchange and productivity to the amount of an arbitrary metal? We have the technology to create money backed by real goods and services (and yes, that will include gold mines and gold trading!) Who mentioned anything about accepting anyone as an "economic authority?" or are you just getting a little ahead of yourself. I repeat: Please take a moment to CONSIDER a possible solution, or indeed some new concepts, non-Austrian or otherwise...
@dfoxmaster I did take a moment. I went and listened to this Paul Grignon character, and in the space of a few minutes he said several things that were clearly (to someone who understands economics) nonsense.
For a price system to work, it 'requires' that it be based on a quantity of money that is relatively fixed, that is a 'requirement' for money. Any alternative that does not involve a restricted supply of money would destroy the price system, utterly invalidating that thing as money.
@Panpiper Are you sure that you are not confusing the monetary unit with the scalar of value? They don't have to be the same thing, and money doesn't need to be any more restricted than the demand for the things we produce. It's a big idea to get one's head around, for sure. Try not to rush.
@dfoxmaster If they are not the same thing, then people cannot properly judge the relative price of goods and services. And it is the very fact that the Gov simply prints extra money to suit it's desires, thereby divorcing the calculation of value from the nominal unit of money, that causes the problems with fiat money in the first place. Seriously, try learning from an economic tradition that goes back 100's of years, before going whole in with a single artist's new vision.
@Panpiper We surely err dangerously close to hubris when we assume that those with whom we disagree lack the necessary learning to engage in said discourse. Are you not a little hasty to recommend I "go study" sir? Whilst I readily agree that knowledge of economic traditions aids deeper understanding, we should not let it dictate our thinking when it comes to imagining the future of finance. Or, as Einstein put it, "We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used to create them." :-)
@dfoxmaster Einstein solved his problem by basing his thinking on an extremely solid foundation of mathematics and scientific method. Proposing a new conception of money requires an extremely solid foundation of understanding exactly how and why an economy functions. You do not get to abandon 'that' sort of tradition and still maintain any credibility with those who have not. In you OP you said that money as a commodity is dead (it 'is' if it is fiat), but a commodity 'is' a good.
@Panpiper My central contention is that our concept of "money" needs to be urgently reconsidered, especially in the light of recent financial turmoil. Fundamentally money is a means of exchange - it serves to free us from the limitations of direct barter. We already have the technology to restore the credit commons. There is absolutely no need for money to be controlled by a central issuing authority. But the hurdle is one of consciousness, not technology, as your comments amply demonstrate!
@dfoxmaster I agree, that there is absolutely no need for a central bank issuing money. That is very much the problem. But it is this notion that one can 'reinvent' money that is central to the problem, as that reinvention has taken the form of the fiat currencies that are in the process of destroying our economy. There is no need to reinvent it. The essential nature of money IS barter, except that we use an easily transported and negotiable commodity to do it, gold and silver coin.
@Panpiper - For a price system to work, you have to have respect for personal property rights. Respecting personal property rights will inevitably lead to dictatorship (I'm not exaggerating). For true anarchy, there can be no respect for personal property rights at all. None. Nada. Zip. Zilch. This is because respecting personal property rights grants land holder near total power over their tenants and only a few people will own all the land, anyway. Fuck money, land is power.
@LeksServices "Respecting personal property rights will inevitably lead to dictatorship (I'm not exaggerating). For true anarchy, there can be no respect for personal property rights at all."
Wow! The number of people in the world spouting absolutely crackpot theories is truly astounding.
@dfoxmaster wouldnt that mean if someone manipulated a certain good or service he can become rich? Nah ill stick with gold. People still cant create gold.
@kroovyandcal Silver is also getting a bump right now due to uncertainty in virtually all financial markets.
The comparison he made may have been accurate at the time he made it. Precious metals at seeing price increases at increasingly faster rates since 2008.
YOU AINT NEVER SEEN A MUTHAFUCKA LIKE THE U.S.A.We break all the previous rules.No Human can predict what the U.S.A will do or become.Thats why the U.S.A is both great and a horrible nightmare.We aint Rome or Germany or the Uk but a Monster limping toward forever.WE are in new and unprecedented time.mind control in the mainstream. lies and corruption going unpunished.No one can tell what is truly next.310 million people in this mess.Too many people to truly fail.Too big,if you will?
@jasrogg If history has taught us anything it is that a mindset like yours and a motive like the US politicians regularly combine to the ruin of many a nation. World history is littered with examples of societies which failed to heed the lessons of their predecessors and were subsequently destroyed by the same issues they presumed themselves immune to.
@AndreisEntaro See my point was not that we are right or that we wont fail.But in the history of Currency no nation has ever Governed as many people in such a centralized way.Technology allows spies inside your home with P.C s.Your cell phone can triangulate your location with a couple of dozen feet.We have the T.V showing Law and Order and how The Csi gang is never wrong.And that psychologically speaking there has never been this level of Mind control in the mass media.
@jasrogg I only aim to remind you that the same previously unprecedented level of control was true in a number of former societies, though their methodologies may have been different. It is not that actual technologies or methods that matter but the repeat of the same flawed value systems, lack of forward thinking, massive concentration of wealth and power, combined with the thought that we are somehow immune to the failure that has followed every society that allowed such things.
@AndreisEntaro Thats where you are misinformed.No country in history has spent more money through think tanks and the Intelligence agencies , colleges , NGOs ,and Non profits to keep there people dumb and docile without constant violence.Guess what?They figured it out.We arent immune cause this is an unknown virus.And we are in uncharted Technological waters.We have Kids in Nevada flying drones into Pakistan and conducting bombing raids.and it only gets better every year.AmericansareSleepwalking
@jasrogg Whatever you want bro. You seem to be ignoring the abstraction or incapable of recognizing it. I say again, the specifics are always totally different but the kinds of behaviors and value systems are common throughout history.
In fact, this video even has at it's focus one of those repeating patterns the inevitable failure of currency once the gov't begins to inflate it.
History will repeat until we learn from it. You can keep restating your outlook but it does you no practical good.
@jasrogg What will your future actions be if it is as you say and everyone is blind to their nation's action? What does repeating this over and over gain you? I say you gain nothing from the mere recognition that the nation is doing terrible things and no one seems to notice. If that's your motive, fine, it's a good motivator. But what will you do about it? I say you must study the history of nations and their failures to see what needs fixed. Then, you will have something to tell people.
@AndreisEntaro People arent blind to what Govt does.People dont care because of mass distractions.when you say study the history of nations,I have and what ive discovered is the old models dont really apply to America now.Again we are not playing the same game as the past.Technology has changed the paradigm.and so we must create a new model.The old models are insignificant thats my point.
@AndreisEntaro Technology has paved the way for a NWO a one world Govt and one world currency.And 310 million people continue to keep each other in the heard.The ''conspiracy theorists''are mad when they claim world events in large measure especially the MAN made tragedies are staged by Govts to usher in a 1 world Govt.America is like a movie its all staged.Dems Repubs we know they arent in charge.Yet still we pay our taxes and in large part dont picket an
Hahah partly true.... it hypnotizes you in a smart way.... when many people hear the term hypnotize they think its got to do with some spinning wheel and a weird voice..... but the fact is.. right now you could be hypnotised.
I could of placed works or letters among my message to get past your continuous brain into your sub- continuous.
@revron77 Maybe but not everyone is easily hypnotized ask any stage hypnotist and they say there is about 10 to 15 percent who are difficult or impossible to hypnotize.But there is a catch those who cant be hypnotized were all told in advanced that they were going to be hypnotized.So when the majority public lets its guard down they become unwitting players in a game they dont even know exists
HAH! I still remember finding million marked bills of Hungarian Pengo-s at my grandparents' place and thinking we're loaded. I was 7...and I must have felt the same way most of our politicians feel today. :D
@MrGrandwazzoo45 Simple, just print 14.5 trillion new dollars and give them to your debtors, problem solved. And that is in fact exactly what they are in effect going to do (in a very round about way), which is the calamity that we Austrians (economists) are predicting. It is going to result in massive inflation, quite possibly hyper inflation, and the normal means of raising interest rates to contain the inflation will not be available to the Fed, so the Gov will try price controls. Watch...
As long as people treat money like a commodity we will have horrible economic conditions throughout the world. Money is like the internet. It makes things more effecient and faster when it is used correctly. Money has no real value even if it is gold. People just dont get it. Money is a machine!
@asc9nd What people need to understand is that EVERYONE SHOULD BE FREE TO CHOOSE WHAT THEY WANT TO USE AS MONEY. Remove all government restrictions and let the free market decide.
@WreakingHavoc1 hmmm i get your point but that has very little to do with what I was pointing out. Do you know what I was trying to get people to realize? Also I think it should be rather obviouse to anyone with a fully functioning brain that anytime someone/group tells you what to do and enforce it with violence they are trying to take advantage of you. So i guess I mostly agree with what you said :)
@asc9nd Gold does have value, as both a very useful industrial metal and as jewelry. If it had no value, it would be useless for a non-fiat currency. The essential point of money is that it is really just a vastly more efficient form of barter, but it IS barter. And for it to be barter, the goods being bartered must have a value, hence the value of gold in that barter transaction. If what you were saying was true, then there really would not be any problem with fiat currencies, and there are.
@Panpiper Yes you are correct gold has value but only as an industrial metel or as jewelry or ias anything someone is will to own it for. Actually anything that exists can have value and so can be non fiat currency. Money is a machine to facilitate barter. If it is used as we use it as barter than we waste a lot of it's effeciency. Money would never have occured if it was not neccesary to organize a machine to make more effecient the exchange of goods and services.
@Panpiper Also. There is nothing neccesarily wrong with having a fiat currency. The problem is not what machine is being used so much as who it is being used for. This is my not so humble opinion and I think that it bears investigation by anyone who desires to really change the fundemental nature of our economy. Non fiat currencies can also fail to acheive a peaceful and healthy sociaty. Let no one doubt that the exchange of goods and services dictate much about the peacefulness and sanity of us
@asc9nd I agree that in 'theory' a fiat currency system could work (neatly side stepping the fact that it likely would require a coercive government to force people to use it). But coming up with a fiat currency that would not be abused by the issuing government is likely impossible, unless it was not issued by government at all, like Bitcoins maybe (which IS a fiat currency technically, in that it has no intrinsic value). Sound money is a necessary but insufficient condition for a free society.
@Panpiper and I agree with you in that a fiat currency is too easily abused to be regarded as sound practice. :)
My main problem with money will always be that it is misunderstood to actually have value itself regardless of it's type. Money must be used as a machine for it too help people become secure free and independent of people or orginaizations that wish to control or abuse them. I would advise the reading of Robert Heinlein to anyone wishing to understand sociaty.
@Panpiper Bitcoins are not fiat currency. There is no "command or act of will that creates something without or as if without further effort" (merriam-webster). People voluntarily use it. It is therefor a legitimate ( not fiat ) currency.
I'm a bit leery of it myself, but it's an interesting idea. Clearly it has a problem if the electricity goes off.
@Panpiper Bitcoins have intrinsic value. People assign value to them for the same reasons they assign value to gold or silver. Bitcoins are scarce, require work to create (and so can be used as a store of value), durable, and are desirable to those who are trading services for them. Additionally, they are also secure (perhaps more so than metals as each is virtually guaranteed to be unique). As with any non-fiat currency, they require no laws to assign value to them.
@jeffiek I think his position is that all currencies currently tried have had the common property that they are manipulable. IE that governments have always been able, by one method or another, to inflate the currency and reduce it's value. That is the real issue.
@smartarse001 Yeah, the heartbeat thing was distracting. Sorry to level such a facile criticism at a substantively strong video, but there it is.
Humans have a hard time distinguishing the shape and character of low-frequency sounds -- I'm sure a lot of people initially thought Stef was just accidentally bumping his microphone. And I don't know if the beat was intended to be irregular... I think it was getting clipped by a compressor or something.
@zeusvalentine Gold has lasted for thousands of years as money. There have been problems, almost always caused by governments shaving coins to make them smaller or reducing the purity of the metal. But merchants are quick to catch on and ultimately base their prices by weight of assayed gold, not coin face value, in those situations. Problems occurred mostly when paper notes were used in lieu of actual gold coin, and the issuers issued more notes than they had gold to back them.
@Panpiper real economics? NOTHING in our current system is economical. In a monetary market system problems and scarcity equal profit (take oil, the less we have, the more it costs). THe more efficiency in an society, the less potential for monetary acquisition (hence progress is BAD). social progress and human well being will ALWAYS be second to monetary gain. If money cant be made off of solving social problems, ITS NOT DONE (take the current famine in Africa)
@KillerWhaleSFl When I suggest that you learn 'real' economics, I am not telling you that the current governmental/financial system is all wonderful and the way it should be, far from it. But you need to learn the real causes of the problems and the real solutions, not the half backed nonsense of someone who made a successful documentary of his conspiracy theories. Go read Mises {dot} com for a start.
Interesting that no mention of British Tally Sticks was made, even though as a fiat currency it lasted over 700 years until it was "reformed" out of existence when the Bank of England took over. International bankers will always try to get rid of government backed or commodity backed currencies in favor of their debt based currency. The debtor is subservient to the lender, and banks know just how much power that holds.
@trademarc66 Let people decide for themselves. There is no need to think up some grand scheme to be implemented for everyone. Simply let it be.
Many will no doubt use metals. Some will accept the risk of using bank notes or similar. Sadly though, I know that the instance some people have been too greedy and lost, government will "come to the rescue" again, those benevolent bastards.
@trademarc66 Do away with the legal tender law that 'forces' people to use the valueless Fed notes and that would let people use whatever they want for currency. Most economically astute people would promptly switch to gold and silver coin which the government cannot debase and will maintain their value.
So how do you back a currency with a finite substance? How do you say gold is more valuable than silver? How do you say gold is more valuable than a toilet seat? This to me is all relative, and without money this world would still spin. Resources would still be there for our consumption. Corruption would almost entirely cease to exist because no one would be trying to "one-up" the next guy. Maybe later down the road we as people will be mature enough for capitalism, but we certainly are not now.
@TCharger130 Your right corruption would almost cease under a post-scarcity world. However we are nowhere near a post-scarcity world. Not even remotely. The quickest way to get there though would be total free market capitalism with a sound currency that can't be manipulated easily. I like silver myself but theoretically something much better could exist.
@TCharger130 You back a currency by only issuing notes for which you actually have gold in reserve. Period. If you have 10K ounces of gold, you can issue 10K one ounce gold notes, end of story. That is not necessarily the best way to do things, but I've only got 500 characters to play with. There is enough gold in the world, but a true gold system would have an ounce of gold buying roughly $10K worth of goods, based on the worlds gold supply and world GNP. (Hint, buy gold and silver.)
@twistedwest1 It is impossible to say for sure. I am betting closer to 2012 than 2015.
Buy some junk silver coin, try to get at least $500. worth, more if you can. Stock up on three months (min) of food and other consumables. You can always use that for barter. Learn a useful skill you can barter with. Get familiar and comfortable with the black market, as the glorious Gov will make all sorts of efforts to render the actual free market illegal, greatly exasperating the problem of course.
@Panpiper ima keep stacking till gold hits 2100 then im leaving the country to a more stable one. atleast a country that produces its own food and energy.
@twistedwest1 Australia and Canada both fit that bill, and both have a much more stable economy at the moment. Stefan has a few negative things to say about Canada of course, but I am certain he would have just as much to say about Australia if he lived there. Canada has winters, Australia has dangerous critters. Take your pick.
@Panpiper my family already has property and farmland in another third world country with growing economy. Canada i think would collapse aswell due to they depend on demand from the usa for goods. without the usa they would lose there income and there will be mass unemployment. i hope theres a fiat currency collapse across the world. people need to realize all currencies are worthless. plus why buy junk silver. why not maple leaves and american eagles?
@twistedwest1 There will be demand from China, India, etc., for Canada's exports. It will cause a bit of pain if the US market crashes, but I expect Canada will come out of it quite happily in the end. As for junk silver, gold is nice, but you can't buy a loaf of bread with a gold coin and expect the other guy to make change. A silver dime on the other hand is just right for buying a loaf of bread. I have both gold and silver, but I have enough silver to make change on a few gold coins.
Fiat currencies fail not because they return to the value of zero, but because zero was always their value. The fact that it has "value" is the fact that governments and central banks use accounting tricks to make it look like the currency had any worth.
I do believe that a currency connected only to the creative abilities of humanity is the future. That is afterall the essence of fiat currency. Seemingly however thats not the present reality!!
So the pound sterling was quite successful... And the "it lost xx% of its value for 400000 years" is bullshit. It is expected with inflation targeting that the more time you follow the currency the more value it loses. But if there isn't a currency collapse event like hyperinflation, then the value will never actually reach zero.
Money, money is nothing more then an illusion, money is superficial yet it can take over and kill lives, money is simply just a paper with a certain number and face.
@Rcee01 Only people who have grown up knowing nothing except a fiat currency system could ever believe what you do. You are flat out wrong.
If I trade you a sandwich for an apple, both the sandwich and the apple have value. If I trade you a silver ring for the sandwich, they too both have value. If I make the silver a coin, it still has value. Only when the government forces you to use worthless paper, backed by nothing, does money become an illusion, and that is the problem.
@Sliptodance If fiat currency were analagous to a musician, it would be a lounge act; or, borrowing a page from Jimi Hendrix, it would be A Voodoo Money.
Thanks, I should have cited that, but I was too lazy to look it up. Voltaire was dead on, except another poster said fiat don't return to ZERO, they always are and always will be ZERO. The only value is the illusion the govt and bankers give it.
If there was to be a famine, the only thing of intrinsic value would be a loaf of bread and a gallon of water. Gold does have a 5,000 year track record of being highly valued in virtually all cultures of the world, and it is scarce. There is no other thing to base a currency on except gold or precious metals. As other posters have mentioned, no precious metal currency system has ever failed, except due to corruption or debasement by governments.
@goldenarrow75 I agree with your comment about gold. But how does that relate to what I said? Value only exists in individual's mind. There is no such thing as intrinsic value that exists in the matter itself because of its physical characteristics. No humans, no value.
Croatian university professor describes DOLLAR - USA dollar is in DEEP hyperinflation it is just a question of time when it is going to HIT
aviomaster 6 days ago
Fractional reserve banking can work but only when regulated by the free market. Not by government regulations
quicktimepools 1 week ago
has a currency backed by gold ever lasted?
zeusvalentine 2 weeks ago
The problem of their failures is not that these currencies are Fiat, the problem is that the BANKS backing these currencies are allowed to practice FRACTIONAL RESERVE BANKING
This is the true driving force behind inflation!
This is how they "print" more money: multiplication of the money supply through loaning constituent deposits, to make new deposits, to make new loans, to make new deposits, to make new loans, to make new deposits, and so on...It becomes a black hole no dollar can escape!
Hamking1 4 months ago
What will replace it? If the Pope has his way it will be a one world global currency that is also unbacked and paper based.
Who's payroll is he on anyway??? Maybe he's just ignorant! Either way, I will oppose him wholeheartedly!!!
nalejbank 4 months ago
Any sustainable society will ultimately depend on some version of fiat currency. The practice of it's use in modern economies still has many things to teach us. Yes, the current system is busted but don't assume that it can't be applied in more effective way. There are 7 billion people on this planet! A reserve currency could never be sufficient for the kind of population we now have to account for.
quiltmasta 4 months ago
One hundred trillion dollars. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
rockstarofredondo 4 months ago
Excellent commentary. Thank you.
aquapurity 6 months ago
The problem with any fiat currency..... is the QUANTITY that is printed. Each additional note printed brings down the value of previous notes. No wars could ever be faught if our currencies were only gold and silver...as these have to be horded as TRUE WEALTH. History is repeating itself, as it always does. How we come out of this mess is yet to be determined.....if at all. And bankers will do what ever they can to lure us in this mess again.
ajfelix67 6 months ago
@ajfelix67 then let each nation go to it's soverieng currencies, but do not let their leaders back back door deals on how to exchange it....to leverage it as a weapon.
DMChoreographer 3 months ago
interesting thing about coin is that made out metal hold there value and become more valuable than name plate value. The 2000 golden dollar is worth more than dollar. I away kept it because It knew it be worth more in dollars some day.
spark300c 6 months ago
bar codes
izzysmart 6 months ago
HAHAHAHA I LIKED THE PART WHERE HE WENT "4:02"
ebsm93 6 months ago
Insanity-doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
TheAmercanSkeptic 6 months ago 5
WE WANT CREDITS xD
TheGimon 6 months ago
That the currency is fiat has nothing to do with it's devaluation over time. What does? A combination of two things. 1) A lack of fiscal discipline on behalf of the controllers of the currency, and 2) A lack of competition in the currency market.
Competing fiat currencies would solve the devaluation problem, because if you are devaluing your currency, people will stop using it. Money monopolies within central banking systems are the common factor for all of the failed currencies.
TashiRogo 6 months ago
@TashiRogo You are correct, but one has to wonder why anyone would 'start' using a fiat currency without being compelled to by law. I am perfectly willing to accept gold or silver, because it has a known value, it is itself a commodity. But why should I ever accept some new XYZ fiat currency when it has absolutely zero actual value? Why would one of them be worth a loaf of bread? Why not a million of them for a loaf of bread? If you were a baker, what would you accept for a loaf of bread?
Panpiper 6 months ago
@Panpiper If gold has "actual value" and fiat money has "zero actual value" then you would never be able to exchange one for the other, yet you can. Why? Because fiat currency does have real value. Is this value from the government decree that it is money? No. The government decree in Zimbabwe means little there. The value comes from its ability to be used as a store of value over time. The value is in its stability. Fiat monies today are all inflationary, yet still -relatively- stable.
TashiRogo 6 months ago
@TashiRogo I am sorry but you are flat out wrong. The only reason fiat currencies have that store of value is precisely because of government decree. The fiat currency of Zimbabwe is worthless because they have so grossly overinflated their currency, not because the government decree is worthless. You can exchange fiat currency for gold for the simple reason that governments have told the merchant that if they don't accept the fiat currency, they go to jail (basically).
Panpiper 6 months ago
@Panpiper But your argument isn't that Zimbabwe's currency is worthless. It is that ALL fiat currencies are worthless. So how can Zimbabwe's be less than worthless? If you would be less likely to accept Zimbabwe Dollars for gold than Swiss Franks, then Swiss Francs obviously have more value or you wouldn't care. What makes the Zimbabwean Dollar less valuable is precisely the reason you stated... it is being grossly overinflated. In other words, it can't store value. Decrees are extraneous.
TashiRogo 6 months ago
@TashiRogo That is not my argument. I am not stating that all 'existent' fiat currencies are worthless, I did state that any new such fiat currency would be fundamentally worthless, unless forced upon the people by government decree. How many ounces of your gold will you give me for my newfangled 'gerfunkle' currency? See the problem? How much gold will you give me for my pound of silver? Now we can do business. See my point?
Panpiper 6 months ago
@Panpiper The decree establishes the monopoly, but the value is determined by the management decisions the monopoly makes. History has many examples of currency establishment. You just say "here it is" and give initial exchange rates for the 'gerfunkle' relative to the value of other things in the marketplace at the time of its establishment. It's like changing your money for other money in a foreign country. Personally, I would prefer competing currencies without decrees. Including gold.
TashiRogo 6 months ago
What will replace them? Bitcoins.
meberic 6 months ago 7
@meberic hahah dumbass
dieyoung 6 months ago
Why is the referred site dollar days dot org marked as containing malware by Google?
wreagfe 6 months ago 6
"On a long enough timeline..."
Sweet! a Fight Club reference.
bobafruti 7 months ago
Great audio. I thought the video might give me a brain attack though. So many colors....!! *drool*
TheLibertas2 7 months ago
wow, great video
BlueSkies360 7 months ago
Go bitcoins! Fiat currency may succeed if it is not duplicable.
ninetales1234 7 months ago
@ninetales1234 Bitcoin does not meet the definition of a fiat currency. The hallmark of a fiat currency is that it is mandated by a governmental decree. Bitcoin on the other hand is a voluntary currency which makes all the difference in the world.
jpmsagan 7 months ago
All this talk about tokens of exchange. "Tokens of exchange, tokens of exchange, tokens of exchange." "There are fake tokens of exchange, and there are real tokens of exchange." Someone PLEASE tell me the difference between "fake" tokens of exchange and "real" tokens of exchange, because quite honestly, I don't see any. What I do see as having value is LAND. Everyone needs it, there's definitely a limited supply, and it's the source of everything people need to survive.
LeksServices 7 months ago
@LeksServices - Before you all get crazy about how "tokens of exchange are 'not money,'" let me explain. If we started trading using wooden coins, then those wooden coins would all serve as tokens of exchange. They would be, in your language, "money." As long as we can all agree on the relative value of each token of exchange, they can be universal. A real example of this is the Linden Dollar. It's a token of exchange, but it has a thriving economy that uses it exclusively.
LeksServices 7 months ago
@LeksServices - It does not matter what you use as your token of exchange. It does not matter what form it takes, or how 'worthless' the tokens are worth. In point of fact, when you go with a "cashless" economy, where the physical tokens are completely eliminated, then the relative value of the tokens themselves has absolutely no bearing on the economy what so ever. But the amount of available land effects everyone. What if we decided to get rid of 99% of our farmland?
LeksServices 7 months ago
@LeksServices - It's worth noting, with considerable irony, that a rich man who owns most of the land could do precisely that simply for monetary greed. Farming would be lucrative if he carefully avoided farming most of his land. And even though you claim "there's always new competition," please remember YOU CAN'T JUST POOF NEW LAND IN TO EXISTENCE! That's so important to understand in this dictatorial system you're all promoting. Once a few families own all the land, you're fucked.
LeksServices 7 months ago
@LeksServices "Once a few families own all the land, you're fucked."
Absolutely. Let's see. We have the US family, the China family, the Canadian family ......
Try leaving their land. You just go to another family's land. That is if they let you go. They don't always. That's why they have border guards. With WEAPONS.
jeffiek 6 months ago
How do you counter the argument, "gold standard currencies don't grow with a growing economy"? Forgive for my lack of economic knowledge, I'm more of a science guy.
Chickenwing1313 7 months ago
@Chickenwing1313 First off, the gold supply 'does' grow. Mining right now expands the gold supply by a tad less than 2%. If an economy grows more than that, the relative value of gold would go up prompting yet more mining. Secondly, it is 'not' a disaster to an economy if prices fall. They do all the time in some industries and they do just fine. If an economy grew faster than the gold supply, prices would naturally fall as a result, making savings that much more lucrative.
Panpiper 6 months ago
I would like to know people's thoughts on Bitcoins, and what you think it will do in a currency crisis? Compared to Gold & Silver? Bump me up :)
ArgosSmith2009 7 months ago
@ArgosSmith2009 If anything it may move in a similar fashion to precious metals in relation to paper currency. Bitcoins are only created as fast as users can create new blocks so they do not lose value very quickly. By this metric, if you consider that paper currency is always losing value and bitcoins are relatively steady then the dollar price of a bitcoin should increase over time. That said, bitcoins are not all that popular to hold and comparatively not widely used.
AndreisEntaro 7 months ago
@ArgosSmith2009 Bitcoin is still just a crazy experiment that nobody accepts in exchange for goods and services except for a few lunatics who are willing to quite literally give something of value away in exchange for an idealist's dream. In a currency crisis, people will be looking for alternatives. A few might accept bitcoins. Virtually everyone will accept barter with actual commodity goods, such as gold and silver.
Panpiper 6 months ago
Great video. Very sobering. How can I convert my 401 to bitcoin?
Manifestatheist 7 months ago
This is all old news , i live in England and so i come under that old fiat currency , i own gold and silver and will carry on to do so , i highly recommend other's to hold precious metals as well , a must read if you like this subject is Micheal Maloney book, investing in gld & slv , it's more about the demise of failed fiat currencies , we only have to look at the dollar and the Euro , thing's do not look good , you cannot print precious metals , that takes blood , sweat tears loss of life
firefox666moll 7 months ago
Money as a commodity is about to die. Using precious metals to back currency is dead and buried. But there is another solution. Money backed by REAL goods and services. I URGE YOU TO CHECK OUT THESE SHORT VIDEOS ON YOUTUBE. The first to watch is called "THE ESSENCE OF MONEY" and the second is called "DIGITAL COIN" - both created by the Canadian artist Paul Grignon (the man behind the "Money as Debt" series of videos.
Please take a moment to consider a possible solution!
dfoxmaster 7 months ago
@dfoxmaster Precious metal just happens to be a "REAL good". It has survived historically as 'the' real good most suited to being used as money for a whole host of great reasons. If there was some other good that worked better than precious metals, it would have been used instead of precious metals. As for accepting as economic authority the notions of a single artist rather than say, Austrian economics, well...
Panpiper 7 months ago
@Panpiper Why restrict our means of exchange and productivity to the amount of an arbitrary metal? We have the technology to create money backed by real goods and services (and yes, that will include gold mines and gold trading!) Who mentioned anything about accepting anyone as an "economic authority?" or are you just getting a little ahead of yourself. I repeat: Please take a moment to CONSIDER a possible solution, or indeed some new concepts, non-Austrian or otherwise...
dfoxmaster 7 months ago
@dfoxmaster I did take a moment. I went and listened to this Paul Grignon character, and in the space of a few minutes he said several things that were clearly (to someone who understands economics) nonsense.
For a price system to work, it 'requires' that it be based on a quantity of money that is relatively fixed, that is a 'requirement' for money. Any alternative that does not involve a restricted supply of money would destroy the price system, utterly invalidating that thing as money.
Panpiper 7 months ago
@Panpiper Are you sure that you are not confusing the monetary unit with the scalar of value? They don't have to be the same thing, and money doesn't need to be any more restricted than the demand for the things we produce. It's a big idea to get one's head around, for sure. Try not to rush.
dfoxmaster 7 months ago
@dfoxmaster If they are not the same thing, then people cannot properly judge the relative price of goods and services. And it is the very fact that the Gov simply prints extra money to suit it's desires, thereby divorcing the calculation of value from the nominal unit of money, that causes the problems with fiat money in the first place. Seriously, try learning from an economic tradition that goes back 100's of years, before going whole in with a single artist's new vision.
Panpiper 7 months ago
@Panpiper We surely err dangerously close to hubris when we assume that those with whom we disagree lack the necessary learning to engage in said discourse. Are you not a little hasty to recommend I "go study" sir? Whilst I readily agree that knowledge of economic traditions aids deeper understanding, we should not let it dictate our thinking when it comes to imagining the future of finance. Or, as Einstein put it, "We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used to create them." :-)
dfoxmaster 6 months ago
@dfoxmaster Einstein solved his problem by basing his thinking on an extremely solid foundation of mathematics and scientific method. Proposing a new conception of money requires an extremely solid foundation of understanding exactly how and why an economy functions. You do not get to abandon 'that' sort of tradition and still maintain any credibility with those who have not. In you OP you said that money as a commodity is dead (it 'is' if it is fiat), but a commodity 'is' a good.
Panpiper 6 months ago
@Panpiper My central contention is that our concept of "money" needs to be urgently reconsidered, especially in the light of recent financial turmoil. Fundamentally money is a means of exchange - it serves to free us from the limitations of direct barter. We already have the technology to restore the credit commons. There is absolutely no need for money to be controlled by a central issuing authority. But the hurdle is one of consciousness, not technology, as your comments amply demonstrate!
dfoxmaster 6 months ago
@dfoxmaster I agree, that there is absolutely no need for a central bank issuing money. That is very much the problem. But it is this notion that one can 'reinvent' money that is central to the problem, as that reinvention has taken the form of the fiat currencies that are in the process of destroying our economy. There is no need to reinvent it. The essential nature of money IS barter, except that we use an easily transported and negotiable commodity to do it, gold and silver coin.
Panpiper 6 months ago
@Panpiper - For a price system to work, you have to have respect for personal property rights. Respecting personal property rights will inevitably lead to dictatorship (I'm not exaggerating). For true anarchy, there can be no respect for personal property rights at all. None. Nada. Zip. Zilch. This is because respecting personal property rights grants land holder near total power over their tenants and only a few people will own all the land, anyway. Fuck money, land is power.
LeksServices 7 months ago
@LeksServices "Respecting personal property rights will inevitably lead to dictatorship (I'm not exaggerating). For true anarchy, there can be no respect for personal property rights at all."
Wow! The number of people in the world spouting absolutely crackpot theories is truly astounding.
Panpiper 7 months ago
@dfoxmaster wouldnt that mean if someone manipulated a certain good or service he can become rich? Nah ill stick with gold. People still cant create gold.
roger767 7 months ago
@roger767 Not meaning to be pedantic, but can you expand on exactly what you mean by "manipulated?"
dfoxmaster 7 months ago
Where did the end animation 'us deficits and surpluses 1968 - 2020' come from?
treeoftears 7 months ago
That's mine at 0:09 - Stef speaks the truth :D
firuinthehouse 7 months ago
I come up with 12 oz silver to be 306.26 British Pounds as of today's prices. You underestimated how undervalued the British Pound is
kroovyandcal 7 months ago
@kroovyandcal Silver is also getting a bump right now due to uncertainty in virtually all financial markets.
The comparison he made may have been accurate at the time he made it. Precious metals at seeing price increases at increasingly faster rates since 2008.
AndreisEntaro 7 months ago
@AndreisEntaro Very true
kroovyandcal 7 months ago
YOU AINT NEVER SEEN A MUTHAFUCKA LIKE THE U.S.A.We break all the previous rules.No Human can predict what the U.S.A will do or become.Thats why the U.S.A is both great and a horrible nightmare.We aint Rome or Germany or the Uk but a Monster limping toward forever.WE are in new and unprecedented time.mind control in the mainstream. lies and corruption going unpunished.No one can tell what is truly next.310 million people in this mess.Too many people to truly fail.Too big,if you will?
jasrogg 7 months ago
@jasrogg If history has taught us anything it is that a mindset like yours and a motive like the US politicians regularly combine to the ruin of many a nation. World history is littered with examples of societies which failed to heed the lessons of their predecessors and were subsequently destroyed by the same issues they presumed themselves immune to.
AndreisEntaro 7 months ago
@AndreisEntaro See my point was not that we are right or that we wont fail.But in the history of Currency no nation has ever Governed as many people in such a centralized way.Technology allows spies inside your home with P.C s.Your cell phone can triangulate your location with a couple of dozen feet.We have the T.V showing Law and Order and how The Csi gang is never wrong.And that psychologically speaking there has never been this level of Mind control in the mass media.
jasrogg 7 months ago
@jasrogg I only aim to remind you that the same previously unprecedented level of control was true in a number of former societies, though their methodologies may have been different. It is not that actual technologies or methods that matter but the repeat of the same flawed value systems, lack of forward thinking, massive concentration of wealth and power, combined with the thought that we are somehow immune to the failure that has followed every society that allowed such things.
AndreisEntaro 7 months ago
@AndreisEntaro Thats where you are misinformed.No country in history has spent more money through think tanks and the Intelligence agencies , colleges , NGOs ,and Non profits to keep there people dumb and docile without constant violence.Guess what?They figured it out.We arent immune cause this is an unknown virus.And we are in uncharted Technological waters.We have Kids in Nevada flying drones into Pakistan and conducting bombing raids.and it only gets better every year.AmericansareSleepwalking
jasrogg 7 months ago
@jasrogg Whatever you want bro. You seem to be ignoring the abstraction or incapable of recognizing it. I say again, the specifics are always totally different but the kinds of behaviors and value systems are common throughout history.
In fact, this video even has at it's focus one of those repeating patterns the inevitable failure of currency once the gov't begins to inflate it.
History will repeat until we learn from it. You can keep restating your outlook but it does you no practical good.
AndreisEntaro 7 months ago
@jasrogg What will your future actions be if it is as you say and everyone is blind to their nation's action? What does repeating this over and over gain you? I say you gain nothing from the mere recognition that the nation is doing terrible things and no one seems to notice. If that's your motive, fine, it's a good motivator. But what will you do about it? I say you must study the history of nations and their failures to see what needs fixed. Then, you will have something to tell people.
AndreisEntaro 7 months ago
@AndreisEntaro People arent blind to what Govt does.People dont care because of mass distractions.when you say study the history of nations,I have and what ive discovered is the old models dont really apply to America now.Again we are not playing the same game as the past.Technology has changed the paradigm.and so we must create a new model.The old models are insignificant thats my point.
jasrogg 7 months ago
@AndreisEntaro Technology has paved the way for a NWO a one world Govt and one world currency.And 310 million people continue to keep each other in the heard.The ''conspiracy theorists''are mad when they claim world events in large measure especially the MAN made tragedies are staged by Govts to usher in a 1 world Govt.America is like a movie its all staged.Dems Repubs we know they arent in charge.Yet still we pay our taxes and in large part dont picket an
jasrogg 7 months ago
@AndreisEntaro Also T.V is a hypnotizing agent.And it is used in America to get you to go to sleep and let the AUTHORITY take care of everything.
jasrogg 7 months ago
@jasrogg
Hahah partly true.... it hypnotizes you in a smart way.... when many people hear the term hypnotize they think its got to do with some spinning wheel and a weird voice..... but the fact is.. right now you could be hypnotised.
I could of placed works or letters among my message to get past your continuous brain into your sub- continuous.
Scary shit eh?
revron77 7 months ago
@revron77 Maybe but not everyone is easily hypnotized ask any stage hypnotist and they say there is about 10 to 15 percent who are difficult or impossible to hypnotize.But there is a catch those who cant be hypnotized were all told in advanced that they were going to be hypnotized.So when the majority public lets its guard down they become unwitting players in a game they dont even know exists
jasrogg 7 months ago
HAH! I still remember finding million marked bills of Hungarian Pengo-s at my grandparents' place and thinking we're loaded. I was 7...and I must have felt the same way most of our politicians feel today. :D
factumDiabolus 7 months ago
I feal... scared.
BaDSPLeR 7 months ago
1 trillion seconds = over 35000 years! US debt 14.5 trillion, good luck with that!
MrGrandwazzoo45 7 months ago
@MrGrandwazzoo45 Simple, just print 14.5 trillion new dollars and give them to your debtors, problem solved. And that is in fact exactly what they are in effect going to do (in a very round about way), which is the calamity that we Austrians (economists) are predicting. It is going to result in massive inflation, quite possibly hyper inflation, and the normal means of raising interest rates to contain the inflation will not be available to the Fed, so the Gov will try price controls. Watch...
Panpiper 7 months ago
Janis Joplin, Jim Morrison, Brian Johnson, that Guy from Canned Heat
daizee106 7 months ago
the sound effects in this video need to be removed.
RevolutionistThinker 7 months ago
where is the video from in the end?
Moodang1985 7 months ago
The beast will replace it.
Anothercoilgun 7 months ago
stack nickels.
Gizziiusa 7 months ago
Outstanding. Thank you
Motoicon 7 months ago
As long as people treat money like a commodity we will have horrible economic conditions throughout the world. Money is like the internet. It makes things more effecient and faster when it is used correctly. Money has no real value even if it is gold. People just dont get it. Money is a machine!
asc9nd 7 months ago
@asc9nd What people need to understand is that EVERYONE SHOULD BE FREE TO CHOOSE WHAT THEY WANT TO USE AS MONEY. Remove all government restrictions and let the free market decide.
WreakingHavoc1 7 months ago
@WreakingHavoc1 hmmm i get your point but that has very little to do with what I was pointing out. Do you know what I was trying to get people to realize? Also I think it should be rather obviouse to anyone with a fully functioning brain that anytime someone/group tells you what to do and enforce it with violence they are trying to take advantage of you. So i guess I mostly agree with what you said :)
asc9nd 7 months ago
@asc9nd Gold does have value, as both a very useful industrial metal and as jewelry. If it had no value, it would be useless for a non-fiat currency. The essential point of money is that it is really just a vastly more efficient form of barter, but it IS barter. And for it to be barter, the goods being bartered must have a value, hence the value of gold in that barter transaction. If what you were saying was true, then there really would not be any problem with fiat currencies, and there are.
Panpiper 7 months ago
@Panpiper Yes you are correct gold has value but only as an industrial metel or as jewelry or ias anything someone is will to own it for. Actually anything that exists can have value and so can be non fiat currency. Money is a machine to facilitate barter. If it is used as we use it as barter than we waste a lot of it's effeciency. Money would never have occured if it was not neccesary to organize a machine to make more effecient the exchange of goods and services.
asc9nd 7 months ago
@Panpiper Also. There is nothing neccesarily wrong with having a fiat currency. The problem is not what machine is being used so much as who it is being used for. This is my not so humble opinion and I think that it bears investigation by anyone who desires to really change the fundemental nature of our economy. Non fiat currencies can also fail to acheive a peaceful and healthy sociaty. Let no one doubt that the exchange of goods and services dictate much about the peacefulness and sanity of us
asc9nd 7 months ago
@asc9nd I agree that in 'theory' a fiat currency system could work (neatly side stepping the fact that it likely would require a coercive government to force people to use it). But coming up with a fiat currency that would not be abused by the issuing government is likely impossible, unless it was not issued by government at all, like Bitcoins maybe (which IS a fiat currency technically, in that it has no intrinsic value). Sound money is a necessary but insufficient condition for a free society.
Panpiper 7 months ago
@Panpiper and I agree with you in that a fiat currency is too easily abused to be regarded as sound practice. :)
My main problem with money will always be that it is misunderstood to actually have value itself regardless of it's type. Money must be used as a machine for it too help people become secure free and independent of people or orginaizations that wish to control or abuse them. I would advise the reading of Robert Heinlein to anyone wishing to understand sociaty.
asc9nd 7 months ago
@Panpiper Bitcoins are not fiat currency. There is no "command or act of will that creates something without or as if without further effort" (merriam-webster). People voluntarily use it. It is therefor a legitimate ( not fiat ) currency.
I'm a bit leery of it myself, but it's an interesting idea. Clearly it has a problem if the electricity goes off.
jeffiek 7 months ago
@Panpiper Bitcoins have intrinsic value. People assign value to them for the same reasons they assign value to gold or silver. Bitcoins are scarce, require work to create (and so can be used as a store of value), durable, and are desirable to those who are trading services for them. Additionally, they are also secure (perhaps more so than metals as each is virtually guaranteed to be unique). As with any non-fiat currency, they require no laws to assign value to them.
AndreisEntaro 7 months ago
@asc9nd "Non fiat currencies can also fail to acheive a peaceful and healthy"
Your point? Nail clippers also fail at that task.
The purpose is to facilitate trade. It does that. Period. End of sentence.
jeffiek 7 months ago
@jeffiek I think his position is that all currencies currently tried have had the common property that they are manipulable. IE that governments have always been able, by one method or another, to inflate the currency and reduce it's value. That is the real issue.
AndreisEntaro 7 months ago
Stef: The irregular heartbeat sound throughout this video might be physically dangerous to some people.
Sitting here, I found that I was off put from what you were saying by it.
smartarse001 7 months ago
@smartarse001 Yeah, the heartbeat thing was distracting. Sorry to level such a facile criticism at a substantively strong video, but there it is.
Humans have a hard time distinguishing the shape and character of low-frequency sounds -- I'm sure a lot of people initially thought Stef was just accidentally bumping his microphone. And I don't know if the beat was intended to be irregular... I think it was getting clipped by a compressor or something.
TomMichaels101 6 months ago
has a gold back monetary system ever lasted?
zeusvalentine 7 months ago
@zeusvalentine Gold has lasted for thousands of years as money. There have been problems, almost always caused by governments shaving coins to make them smaller or reducing the purity of the metal. But merchants are quick to catch on and ultimately base their prices by weight of assayed gold, not coin face value, in those situations. Problems occurred mostly when paper notes were used in lieu of actual gold coin, and the issuers issued more notes than they had gold to back them.
Panpiper 7 months ago
its time for the human race to grow up and switch to a resource based economy!
KillerWhaleSFl 7 months ago
@KillerWhaleSFl Please learn some real economics instead of being persuaded by the fantasies of a couple of non-economist conspiracy theorists.
Panpiper 7 months ago
@Panpiper real economics? NOTHING in our current system is economical. In a monetary market system problems and scarcity equal profit (take oil, the less we have, the more it costs). THe more efficiency in an society, the less potential for monetary acquisition (hence progress is BAD). social progress and human well being will ALWAYS be second to monetary gain. If money cant be made off of solving social problems, ITS NOT DONE (take the current famine in Africa)
but no everythings cool..
KillerWhaleSFl 7 months ago
@KillerWhaleSFl When I suggest that you learn 'real' economics, I am not telling you that the current governmental/financial system is all wonderful and the way it should be, far from it. But you need to learn the real causes of the problems and the real solutions, not the half backed nonsense of someone who made a successful documentary of his conspiracy theories. Go read Mises {dot} com for a start.
Panpiper 7 months ago
@Panpiper Oops, make that Mises [dot] org instead, sorry.
Panpiper 7 months ago
It's great that they can keep printing money. Now we can all be millionaires. I'll spend my first million on a Big Mac and a large fry.
RandallSteen 7 months ago
Interesting that no mention of British Tally Sticks was made, even though as a fiat currency it lasted over 700 years until it was "reformed" out of existence when the Bank of England took over. International bankers will always try to get rid of government backed or commodity backed currencies in favor of their debt based currency. The debtor is subservient to the lender, and banks know just how much power that holds.
Crashtour99 7 months ago
I have one of those 100 trillion dollar bills.
Steve83B 7 months ago
A 1964 Roosevelt dime is worth slightly over $3.00 for its silver value alone. Twenty 1965 dimes will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.
goldenarrow75 7 months ago
If fiat currencies are no good, then what's the answer and why?
trademarc66 7 months ago
@trademarc66 A resource based economy.
redeath420 7 months ago
@trademarc66 Let people decide for themselves. There is no need to think up some grand scheme to be implemented for everyone. Simply let it be.
Many will no doubt use metals. Some will accept the risk of using bank notes or similar. Sadly though, I know that the instance some people have been too greedy and lost, government will "come to the rescue" again, those benevolent bastards.
Laizzes-faire!
mortalisk 7 months ago
@trademarc66 Do away with the legal tender law that 'forces' people to use the valueless Fed notes and that would let people use whatever they want for currency. Most economically astute people would promptly switch to gold and silver coin which the government cannot debase and will maintain their value.
Panpiper 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Amy Winehouse dead at 27, too!
memillanf 7 months ago
So how do you back a currency with a finite substance? How do you say gold is more valuable than silver? How do you say gold is more valuable than a toilet seat? This to me is all relative, and without money this world would still spin. Resources would still be there for our consumption. Corruption would almost entirely cease to exist because no one would be trying to "one-up" the next guy. Maybe later down the road we as people will be mature enough for capitalism, but we certainly are not now.
TCharger130 7 months ago
@TCharger130 Your right corruption would almost cease under a post-scarcity world. However we are nowhere near a post-scarcity world. Not even remotely. The quickest way to get there though would be total free market capitalism with a sound currency that can't be manipulated easily. I like silver myself but theoretically something much better could exist.
batmanthe 7 months ago
@TCharger130 You back a currency by only issuing notes for which you actually have gold in reserve. Period. If you have 10K ounces of gold, you can issue 10K one ounce gold notes, end of story. That is not necessarily the best way to do things, but I've only got 500 characters to play with. There is enough gold in the world, but a true gold system would have an ounce of gold buying roughly $10K worth of goods, based on the worlds gold supply and world GNP. (Hint, buy gold and silver.)
Panpiper 7 months ago
Barter! Barter! Barter!
HorrorHiro 7 months ago
@HorrorHiro Bartering with gold and silver coins works great.
Panpiper 7 months ago
When will the usa economy collapse. I need more time to prepare. Will it be in 2012 or 2015 ?
twistedwest1 7 months ago
@twistedwest1 it will come when we can no longer borow money from China... Happy slave time!
chrstilen5 7 months ago
@twistedwest1 It is impossible to say for sure. I am betting closer to 2012 than 2015.
Buy some junk silver coin, try to get at least $500. worth, more if you can. Stock up on three months (min) of food and other consumables. You can always use that for barter. Learn a useful skill you can barter with. Get familiar and comfortable with the black market, as the glorious Gov will make all sorts of efforts to render the actual free market illegal, greatly exasperating the problem of course.
Panpiper 7 months ago
@Panpiper ima keep stacking till gold hits 2100 then im leaving the country to a more stable one. atleast a country that produces its own food and energy.
twistedwest1 7 months ago
@twistedwest1 Australia and Canada both fit that bill, and both have a much more stable economy at the moment. Stefan has a few negative things to say about Canada of course, but I am certain he would have just as much to say about Australia if he lived there. Canada has winters, Australia has dangerous critters. Take your pick.
Panpiper 7 months ago
@Panpiper my family already has property and farmland in another third world country with growing economy. Canada i think would collapse aswell due to they depend on demand from the usa for goods. without the usa they would lose there income and there will be mass unemployment. i hope theres a fiat currency collapse across the world. people need to realize all currencies are worthless. plus why buy junk silver. why not maple leaves and american eagles?
twistedwest1 7 months ago
@twistedwest1 There will be demand from China, India, etc., for Canada's exports. It will cause a bit of pain if the US market crashes, but I expect Canada will come out of it quite happily in the end. As for junk silver, gold is nice, but you can't buy a loaf of bread with a gold coin and expect the other guy to make change. A silver dime on the other hand is just right for buying a loaf of bread. I have both gold and silver, but I have enough silver to make change on a few gold coins.
Panpiper 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
watch?v=RTckFl0jPN8&feature=channel_video_title
claim the right of the security of your person !
free humanity here we come love you all !!
it's all common law U.C.C code all commerce law look it up, free information free your mind ! free the WORLD !!
demented669 7 months ago
4:02
And their currencies went... *POOF*
I lol'd
Ilikemustard 7 months ago
Fiat currencies fail not because they return to the value of zero, but because zero was always their value. The fact that it has "value" is the fact that governments and central banks use accounting tricks to make it look like the currency had any worth.
ed2point0 7 months ago
stef,
how much in percentage are you in metals?
capgains 7 months ago
I do believe that a currency connected only to the creative abilities of humanity is the future. That is afterall the essence of fiat currency. Seemingly however thats not the present reality!!
NeddLudd1811 7 months ago
what's up with the subsonic thumps I hear? Is that suppose to be my heart beating?
siftyfour 7 months ago
@siftyfour It was an experiment in drama. Didn't work well in my opinion.
Panpiper 7 months ago
@Panpiper ya 5 Hz in my ear doesn't feel good.
siftyfour 7 months ago
So the pound sterling was quite successful... And the "it lost xx% of its value for 400000 years" is bullshit. It is expected with inflation targeting that the more time you follow the currency the more value it loses. But if there isn't a currency collapse event like hyperinflation, then the value will never actually reach zero.
ShwangShwing 7 months ago
@ShwangShwing oh, so it's not actually worth nothing, it's just worth close to nothing. What a huge difference.
Houshalter 7 months ago
@ShwangShwing *rolls eyes*
jeffiek 7 months ago
Money, money is nothing more then an illusion, money is superficial yet it can take over and kill lives, money is simply just a paper with a certain number and face.
Rcee01 7 months ago
@Rcee01 Money is not simply nothing. If it is sound money it represents real wealth.
If some one took your house you would be mad. Well same thing applies with money.
GeminiK 7 months ago
@Rcee01 Only people who have grown up knowing nothing except a fiat currency system could ever believe what you do. You are flat out wrong.
If I trade you a sandwich for an apple, both the sandwich and the apple have value. If I trade you a silver ring for the sandwich, they too both have value. If I make the silver a coin, it still has value. Only when the government forces you to use worthless paper, backed by nothing, does money become an illusion, and that is the problem.
Panpiper 7 months ago
Comment removed
Rcee01 7 months ago
Comment removed
Rcee01 7 months ago
I like the fight club quote
treemouse101 7 months ago
27 years, Kurt Cobain, JImi Hendrix, Amy Winehouse, fiat currency, RIP.
Sliptodance 7 months ago 53
@Sliptodance great point, hadn't occurred to me...
stefbot 7 months ago 7
@stefbot Forgot Jim Morrision. He also died at 27.
IvanTheHeathen 7 months ago
@IvanTheHeathen And Janis Joplin.
LunaticFringe20 7 months ago
@Sliptodance I am totally tweeting this.
NojusArturo 7 months ago
@Sliptodance If fiat currency were analagous to a musician, it would be a lounge act; or, borrowing a page from Jimi Hendrix, it would be A Voodoo Money.
joepeeler34 7 months ago
@Sliptodance
amy winehouse was a piece of dog shit compared to jimi hendrix
OntologicalQuandary 7 months ago 2
@OntologicalQuandary yeah that was totally the point....
jerkbeast81 7 months ago
@Sliptodance
Kurt will go down in history. Jimi goes without saying. To hell with Amy.
Anothercoilgun 7 months ago 4
@Anothercoilgun
yeah, forget that ho
SlingSalsa 7 months ago
@Sliptodance so are janis joplin and jim morrison
mtube620 7 months ago
Thanks Stef, that was awesome :-)
Caligula0708 7 months ago
Fiat currencies always return to their intrinsic value: ZERO
goldenarrow75 7 months ago 31
@goldenarrow75 I believe it was Voltaire who orginally said that.
joepeeler34 7 months ago
@joepeeler34
Thanks, I should have cited that, but I was too lazy to look it up. Voltaire was dead on, except another poster said fiat don't return to ZERO, they always are and always will be ZERO. The only value is the illusion the govt and bankers give it.
goldenarrow75 7 months ago
@goldenarrow75 There is no such thing as intrinsic value. Value is subjective and manifests itself when humans act.
rumco 7 months ago
@rumco
If there was to be a famine, the only thing of intrinsic value would be a loaf of bread and a gallon of water. Gold does have a 5,000 year track record of being highly valued in virtually all cultures of the world, and it is scarce. There is no other thing to base a currency on except gold or precious metals. As other posters have mentioned, no precious metal currency system has ever failed, except due to corruption or debasement by governments.
goldenarrow75 7 months ago
@goldenarrow75 I agree with your comment about gold. But how does that relate to what I said? Value only exists in individual's mind. There is no such thing as intrinsic value that exists in the matter itself because of its physical characteristics. No humans, no value.
rumco 7 months ago
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VanXIInX 7 months ago
Liked!
VanXIInX 7 months ago