Personally, when I was in high school I picked up a book called "The Art of Happiness" & I think that is when I started my spiritual journey, but it wasn't until my 1st solo trip overseas that I was spiritually awaken. I went to a catholic primary school - was always taught do right by god or you will go to hell.
What I love about Spirituality, is it taught me to be responsible for my own actions and my actions will dealt with accordingly. So much weight was lifted off my shoulder that day. :)
"Religion is for people who are afraid to go to hell and spirituality is for those who have already been there." A quote that I came by. Really puts something on yer mind.
Nothing frustrates me more than someone accusing me of not being an athiest because I say I'm spiritual! I'm not educated or have the vocabulary to explain it to them and even if I did I realize they wouldn't get it anyway. thanks for this video! Wonderful
For me, the word "spirituality" has too many religious and supernatural connotations, hence, as an Atheist, I don't use it. It implies existence outside of the body, that the essence of a human is separate from the body and not subject to the same natural laws, which I don't subscribe to.
I'm not sure what bothers me about this video and the comments surrounding it other than it has a foggy, theological feel about it. Why are profound experiences not just emotional states?
Emotional states are not profound because profundity has to do with consciousnesses. "Spiritual" in this sense simply means beyond the realm of mundane ignorance and experience. To me the term has utility despite its religious connotations.
Well, where the religious impulse is concerned, there are no referents, it is just all psychology/imagination. With respect to the spiritual impulse I'm basically referring to any valid philosophical construct. i.e. constructs that speak to what is actual in the world. e.g. from the fact that things exist, we can deduce the necessity of the Totality and we know this is true of the world we experience.
So, a philosophical construct is a mental model of a real tangible object? We see the world around us, recognise that it exists, and conclude that it is all necessary? Is that right?
With respect to the Totality, yes. We see the world and facts of experience and from that deduce the necessity of the Totality. However, when it comes to something like God, we assert its existence without reason or evidence and it therefore has no referent that can be pointed to: i.e. as an empirical object or a logical necessity.
So you sharing your thoughts is "education", but others sharing theirs is "herd-think" (& presumably indoctrination). Wonderful distinction we can make with words! To parallel your statement: Religous people agree on many things, but that doesn't make it herd-think. There are many religious people & institutions that encourage discussion & rational reflection, but you parody it all as brainless. To be honest -I'm just not convinced.
Herd-think is when you gather together and validate each other on the sole basis that you've been brought up to believe a certain form of utter bullshit.
There is NO Church of THOUGHT. Please understand that.
You make the terrible (but very common) assumption that people only believe who were brought up to believe. Unfortunately for your argument there are thousands who have come to believe because they investigated the claims & considered the evidence.
I totally agree there is "NO Church of THOUGHT", but behind this description is the presumtption Church=control, wheras of course you are an independent free-thinker!
If herd-think is "validating each other on this sole basis", then its not what goes on in churches I've been to -its much more learning, investigating & discussing together -sounds a lot more like education to me.
Why not throw in your job, and become a full-time Christian (including education)? Obviously it's what you'd prefer to be doing, since this is what most of your holidays this week has been focussed on. Isn't that being a Christian - selling all you have to buy that great pearl?
Are we really now moving away from philosophical discussion to making personal comments? Please Kelly, you are 1 person who I thought wouldn't do that. Try & stick with the discussion. [PS I happen to value the philosophical discussion & testing of my own views -why do I have to want to educate to engage in it?]
My personal comment was really a philosophical one, poorly disguised (at least I thought so). I was just wondering how seriously you take Christianity, given that you don't give it the same dedication that you do while on holiday. Why is that? (It's on-topic, BTW).
Sorry Kelly -I dont understand. Why do you think I don't give Christianity the same dedication that I do while on holiday? P.S. What is a "full-time Christian"?
No-normally I'm busier working or being with my family.I happen to be travelling independently at present, so have more time to think about these things & find it helpful. I don't think that makes me more of a Christian,nor do I know what its got to do with the discussion.
MoI-Rather than name-calling, you still havn't answered my question as to why your sharing & arguing for your beliefs is "education" & religious people sharing & arguing for their beliefs is "religion". You sound religious!
It's because in Spirutality you don't share and argue for beliefs, you share truth which is founded on absolute and pure reason.
That is true education.
Reliogious "education" is more like discussing whether a fictional story can be true or not. Only that you are not allowed to state that it is finctional and not true.
There is no room for reason in such "education".
But how can you call something education when it is not founded on reason?
I cannot believe you argue this way. While you draw a helpful distinction between the individual & communal, the way you sterotype them is highly prejudiced. If religious = shared, then are you not religious in sharing your thoughts on this Utube, yet you steroeotype all religion as "popularity", "suspicious of reason" etc. What rubbish. What is wrong with sharing our spirituality & coming to common conclusions? Not all religion is forced & resistant to reason. Not all spirituality is pure.
All religion is herd-think by its very nature. That's why it is *religion* and not simple agreement. People agree on many things, but that doesn't make their agreement religious. If a bunch of people believe that capitalism is a flawed paradigm, does that make it a religion?
My sharing my thoughts on Youtube is education, not religion. There can be no *shared* spirituality. It's impossible. Our relation to reality is ours alone.
I would say that awareness of emotions and feelings is merely a slightly elevated form of consciousness. Spirituality (as I would define it) is not about the emotions anyway - emotions are ultimately a manifestation of the false ego, and are therefore, themselves, delusional in nature. As for what religion indoctrinates us to believe - I agree. All the elements of human psychology you list are results of evolution. There is no "supernatural".
IMO the concept of 'spirituality' is merely what I would call 'awareness of your feelings & emotions'.
I refuse to accept that because someone feels 'spiritual' (whatever that means to them) that they actually feel something I can't, or somehow have enhanced emotions.
Religion simply indoctrinates us as children to believe that feelings like awe, contentment, elation, tranquility, love, pity, empathy, etc, and dictated that these are related to supernatural 'spirit'.
"But a short time elapsed after the death of the great reformer of the Jewish religion, before his principles were departed from by those who professed to be his special servants, and perverted into an engine for enslaving mankind, and aggrandizing their oppressors in Church and State.".....Thomas Jefferson in a letter to S. Kercheval, 1810
Some of the so-called "Founding Fathers" of the American social system were quite philosophically erudite and arguably "humanist" in their approach. Paine perhaps being the most obvious.
Thanks for taking the time to watch and for posting a fine quotation.
Personally, when I was in high school I picked up a book called "The Art of Happiness" & I think that is when I started my spiritual journey, but it wasn't until my 1st solo trip overseas that I was spiritually awaken. I went to a catholic primary school - was always taught do right by god or you will go to hell.
What I love about Spirituality, is it taught me to be responsible for my own actions and my actions will dealt with accordingly. So much weight was lifted off my shoulder that day. :)
carlalouisec 1 month ago
Comment removed
carlalouisec 1 month ago
"Religion is for people who are afraid to go to hell and spirituality is for those who have already been there." A quote that I came by. Really puts something on yer mind.
asana1973 1 month ago 2
@asana1973 Brilliant!
carlalouisec 1 month ago
มีภาคแปลภาษาไทยก็จะดีมากเลยค่ะ
mynapaporn 1 year ago
Nothing frustrates me more than someone accusing me of not being an athiest because I say I'm spiritual! I'm not educated or have the vocabulary to explain it to them and even if I did I realize they wouldn't get it anyway. thanks for this video! Wonderful
DanceSexy101 1 year ago
religion has nothing to do with sprituality, sprituality comes from rationality not religious gobbledygook.
cartoonhead5 1 year ago
For me, the word "spirituality" has too many religious and supernatural connotations, hence, as an Atheist, I don't use it. It implies existence outside of the body, that the essence of a human is separate from the body and not subject to the same natural laws, which I don't subscribe to.
I'm not sure what bothers me about this video and the comments surrounding it other than it has a foggy, theological feel about it. Why are profound experiences not just emotional states?
Valelacerte 2 years ago
Emotional states are not profound because profundity has to do with consciousnesses. "Spiritual" in this sense simply means beyond the realm of mundane ignorance and experience. To me the term has utility despite its religious connotations.
MenoftheInfinite 2 years ago
That said, I do understand your reservations and I have no real problem if you prefer not to use such a term or see merit in it.
MenoftheInfinite 2 years ago
Thanks.
Does Psychology not provide you with an adequate framework to describe these mental experiences?
Valelacerte 2 years ago
Yes it does, for the most part, but it doesn't deal with the issue of what valid referents such experiences might have.
MenoftheInfinite 2 years ago
I don't understand, MenoftheInfinite, could you give me an example of what a valid referent might be?
Valelacerte 2 years ago
Well, where the religious impulse is concerned, there are no referents, it is just all psychology/imagination. With respect to the spiritual impulse I'm basically referring to any valid philosophical construct. i.e. constructs that speak to what is actual in the world. e.g. from the fact that things exist, we can deduce the necessity of the Totality and we know this is true of the world we experience.
MenoftheInfinite 2 years ago
So, a philosophical construct is a mental model of a real tangible object? We see the world around us, recognise that it exists, and conclude that it is all necessary? Is that right?
Valelacerte 2 years ago
With respect to the Totality, yes. We see the world and facts of experience and from that deduce the necessity of the Totality. However, when it comes to something like God, we assert its existence without reason or evidence and it therefore has no referent that can be pointed to: i.e. as an empirical object or a logical necessity.
MenoftheInfinite 2 years ago
Yes, I see. Thanks for elaborating.
Valelacerte 2 years ago
So you sharing your thoughts is "education", but others sharing theirs is "herd-think" (& presumably indoctrination). Wonderful distinction we can make with words! To parallel your statement: Religous people agree on many things, but that doesn't make it herd-think. There are many religious people & institutions that encourage discussion & rational reflection, but you parody it all as brainless. To be honest -I'm just not convinced.
mtstassie 3 years ago
We all indoctrinate. It's unavoidable.
Herd-think is when you gather together and validate each other on the sole basis that you've been brought up to believe a certain form of utter bullshit.
There is NO Church of THOUGHT. Please understand that.
MenoftheInfinite 3 years ago
You make the terrible (but very common) assumption that people only believe who were brought up to believe. Unfortunately for your argument there are thousands who have come to believe because they investigated the claims & considered the evidence.
I totally agree there is "NO Church of THOUGHT", but behind this description is the presumtption Church=control, wheras of course you are an independent free-thinker!
mtstassie 3 years ago
If herd-think is "validating each other on this sole basis", then its not what goes on in churches I've been to -its much more learning, investigating & discussing together -sounds a lot more like education to me.
mtstassie 3 years ago
Hey James,
Why not throw in your job, and become a full-time Christian (including education)? Obviously it's what you'd prefer to be doing, since this is what most of your holidays this week has been focussed on. Isn't that being a Christian - selling all you have to buy that great pearl?
KellyJones0 3 years ago
Are we really now moving away from philosophical discussion to making personal comments? Please Kelly, you are 1 person who I thought wouldn't do that. Try & stick with the discussion. [PS I happen to value the philosophical discussion & testing of my own views -why do I have to want to educate to engage in it?]
mtstassie 3 years ago
Education into what, each others metaphysical delusions?
MenoftheInfinite 3 years ago
You're like a Catholic trying to pretend he's not a Catholic.
MenoftheInfinite 3 years ago
My personal comment was really a philosophical one, poorly disguised (at least I thought so). I was just wondering how seriously you take Christianity, given that you don't give it the same dedication that you do while on holiday. Why is that? (It's on-topic, BTW).
KellyJones0 3 years ago
Sorry Kelly -I dont understand. Why do you think I don't give Christianity the same dedication that I do while on holiday? P.S. What is a "full-time Christian"?
mtstassie 3 years ago
Are you usually free to spend as much time as you are now, in discussing reason and belief?
I would have thought a full-time Christian dedicates every waking hour to putting the Kingdom of God first.
KellyJones0 3 years ago
And any person who doesn't do this cannot call themselves a Christian at all.
KellyJones0 3 years ago
No-normally I'm busier working or being with my family.I happen to be travelling independently at present, so have more time to think about these things & find it helpful. I don't think that makes me more of a Christian,nor do I know what its got to do with the discussion.
MoI-Rather than name-calling, you still havn't answered my question as to why your sharing & arguing for your beliefs is "education" & religious people sharing & arguing for their beliefs is "religion". You sound religious!
mtstassie 3 years ago
It's because in Spirutality you don't share and argue for beliefs, you share truth which is founded on absolute and pure reason.
That is true education.
Reliogious "education" is more like discussing whether a fictional story can be true or not. Only that you are not allowed to state that it is finctional and not true.
There is no room for reason in such "education".
But how can you call something education when it is not founded on reason?
TiMoseb 3 years ago
I cannot believe you argue this way. While you draw a helpful distinction between the individual & communal, the way you sterotype them is highly prejudiced. If religious = shared, then are you not religious in sharing your thoughts on this Utube, yet you steroeotype all religion as "popularity", "suspicious of reason" etc. What rubbish. What is wrong with sharing our spirituality & coming to common conclusions? Not all religion is forced & resistant to reason. Not all spirituality is pure.
mtstassie 3 years ago
All religion is herd-think by its very nature. That's why it is *religion* and not simple agreement. People agree on many things, but that doesn't make their agreement religious. If a bunch of people believe that capitalism is a flawed paradigm, does that make it a religion?
My sharing my thoughts on Youtube is education, not religion. There can be no *shared* spirituality. It's impossible. Our relation to reality is ours alone.
MenoftheInfinite 3 years ago
I would say that awareness of emotions and feelings is merely a slightly elevated form of consciousness. Spirituality (as I would define it) is not about the emotions anyway - emotions are ultimately a manifestation of the false ego, and are therefore, themselves, delusional in nature. As for what religion indoctrinates us to believe - I agree. All the elements of human psychology you list are results of evolution. There is no "supernatural".
Thanks for your interest and comments.
MenoftheInfinite 3 years ago
IMO the concept of 'spirituality' is merely what I would call 'awareness of your feelings & emotions'.
I refuse to accept that because someone feels 'spiritual' (whatever that means to them) that they actually feel something I can't, or somehow have enhanced emotions.
Religion simply indoctrinates us as children to believe that feelings like awe, contentment, elation, tranquility, love, pity, empathy, etc, and dictated that these are related to supernatural 'spirit'.
ByeCruelWorld 3 years ago
"But a short time elapsed after the death of the great reformer of the Jewish religion, before his principles were departed from by those who professed to be his special servants, and perverted into an engine for enslaving mankind, and aggrandizing their oppressors in Church and State.".....Thomas Jefferson in a letter to S. Kercheval, 1810
KasparHauser4 3 years ago
Some of the so-called "Founding Fathers" of the American social system were quite philosophically erudite and arguably "humanist" in their approach. Paine perhaps being the most obvious.
Thanks for taking the time to watch and for posting a fine quotation.
MenoftheInfinite 3 years ago
Yes, they're both absurd.
MenoftheInfinite 3 years ago
is there any connection between homeopathy and alchemy?
nad2k8 3 years ago
I uploaded a new version of this to correct a glaring error in spelling.
MenoftheInfinite 3 years ago