Crescent of Betrayal?

[woodenmajor]

the crescent motif is a incredibly bad idea ,F##K cares who used the symol first ram ? christianity predates islam by centurys so this is a vapid non sequetar ..the only relevant point is what MOST people associate ITwith NOW .if my brother ect was a victim of that mass murder i can assure you that I would be very angry and fistfighting mad , anyone who passed freshman world history SHOULD know the crescent islamic connection ,some will find this design idea VERY insulting , I sure do .

[KingCrassusII]

I think the Islamic crescent actually came from the symbol of the house of Surena.

[fredontube]

911 is long ago and needs no investigation, but crescent symbolism does?

[BiologicalUnit2380]

Aaah I see...I see... The crescent was used before Islam, so therefore there's no way this could be a furtive desecration of the lost American lives by Islam which currently *does* use the crescent and *is* engaged in a holy war against the United States. Sharp logic there, fodder....oops..I mean fella.

[VT1419]

This is the only conspiracy theory I am inclined to believe of 9/11 thanks in large part to the bullshit of a mosque being built near Ground Zero. The idea that the 51 Park Place is not Ground Zero is absolutely abhorrent. All of Lower Manhattan is Ground Zero, period. No triumphant war monuments need be erected anywhere near these hallowed sites. Try reading history about Islam and it's structures of conquest.

[birthdaynick80]

@VT1419 But no body protests the tittie-bar that just a few doors down from 51 park place. So how hallowed is this ground?

[VT1419]

9/11 should leave the hallowed ground, but I will always condemn the building of a structure that will serve as a war monument to the perpetrators of one of the worst days in American history. Every “mosque/community center” in the world has been a direct conquest of another group of people that Islam has infiltrated. This just happens to be the fastest act of conquest in their history.

[birthdaynick80]

@VT1419 The you should spearhead an organization that purchases Lower Manhattan properties that are up for sale and develop a set of guidelines as to who you sell to and what they can or can't to with their purchase. Otherwise it's a free country they purchase a place on the free market and they happen to also get protection under the 1st Amendment.

[VT1419]

They all have different ends to the same purpose, the total rule of Islam over every other culture in the world. This is the problem. Too many people preach “tolerance” to everyone else (look at the idiotic COEXIST bumper stickers), when it is the religion of Islam that needs to practice COEXISTence. I do not think businesses or places of worship that have been in and were in Manhattan prior to

[birthdaynick80]

@VT1419 And you think that the COEXIST message doesn't apply to them as well? It applies to everyone!!! If it didn't then those symbols should've just spelled SUBMIT!

[VT1419]

or Hezbollah? It is very simple. The religion is rooted is in the politics/military, which is why the Imam will never come out against the terrorist organizations. These organizations make up the political/military aspect of the religion. In reverse, this is why the terrorists invoke the religion when conducting their ‘operations.’ Hence, the Sunnis are more political (wanting a political caliphate), and the Shi’a are more religious, wanting a theocratic ruler. This is the rift in Islam.

[birthdaynick80]

@VT1419 Didn't Christians travel all around the world conquering "savages" bringing the death or religion? Didn't thousands of muslims get massacred in the early and mid 90's by christians?

btw, hallowed ground means sacred place... but I guess not sacred enough to kick the dancing Jezebels out.

If the building didn't sell so cheap they wouldn't of bought it. If there weren't so many muslims already there they wouldn't have chosen that spot.

[VT1419]

@birthdaynick80 If this is the crusades you are referring to, then you need to revisit history. The crusades were a direct result of Islamic expansion and massacres in Southern Europe. Briefly, within 100 years of Mohammed's death, Islam had expanded north into present-day Israel, and as far west as Spain and Northern Africa. It was Charles Martel and the Battle of Tours in 732 AD that halted Islamic expansion in Southern Europe. From there, Islam ruled for several centuries until they...

[birthdaynick80]

@VT1419 no, I was talking about the conquistadors "expanding" west in the name of god and gold. I was talking about the Spanish inquisition, the puritans settlers, the march of tears and when I mentioned the thousands of muslims getting massacred in the 90's I was talking about the ethnic cleansing that took place in bosnia.

but since you brought up the crusades, wasn't one of the last waves sent out to fight the muslims, just a bunch of brainwashed kids?

eh, peace be with you :)

[VT1419]

@birthdaynick80 Thanks for the spirited debate. I actually enjoy posts like this. I will not consider some of the events of Christian history to be benevolent by any stretch of the imagination. There has been alot done in the name of god and gold that was a travesty of history. I would hope we have learned from history and moved past that improving ourselves for the future. That being said, the Bosnia situation was not about Christian religion. Churches, and countries of all denominations

[VT1419]

openly condemned the exercise by Slobadan Milosevic. We even sent troops to attempt to stop the travesties being perpetrated. This is the difference between the "Christians" who committed those atrocities and the Muslims today. Real and true Christians openly condemned the ethnic cleansing of the Bosniak Muslims, while many Imams (namely the ones behind this new mosque) will not condemn terror organizations and perpetrators among themselves. This is the dilemma.

[VT1419]

The crusades are credited with saving European history. Had they not happened, all persons not of the Islamic faith today might being paying taxes (dhimmitude) to simply exist. Their faiths would not be allowed to congregate, meet, or openly discuss their religious views and tenets. This was the practice in Southern Europe, while the Moors dominated. This was the reason for the crusades, no matter who fought them.

Like I said I enjoy good debate and sincerely peace be with you.

[VT1419]

attempted expansion again. This brought on the infamous crusades. Amazing, how Christianity takes the wrap for the brutality inflicted by Islam and people are taught that it was Christianity, merely facilitating it's own survival, as the aggressors in a conflict not perpetuated by themselves.

Now, hallowed ground to me is something that is a reminder of the lives lost, not the lives of the perpetrators. Obviously, we cannot strip Manhattan but we can refuse a "religion" that refuses to...

[VT1419]

denounce it's own militant problems. When Timothy McVeigh perpetrated his act, Christianity was just as appalled and claimed no allegiance with a man who would murder innocent people. Islam refuses to do that because in the Qu'ran it is taught that to kill an infidel is not a crime in the eyes of Allah. So who's kidding who here?

As for the COEXIST sticker, it absolutely applies to them. That is my point. It is not Christianity or America that does not tolerate them, rather there lack of...

[VT1419]

coexistence with us.

Finally, this is not a 1st Amend issue because no "religion" has the right to advocate, nor recruit (through foreign entities) actively for the overthrow of our government. This is the dilemma of balancing the right to practice a religion that conflicts with societal laws. For example, you can be a satanist, but if you want to sacrifice humans before your god, that goes against the law and the 1st Amendment no longer applies. BTW--Just a comparison, not equating the two.

[VT1419]

@birthdaynick80 One last point...Not sure about the Muslims massacred in the mid 90s point. If you are referring to the Gulf War, we were there to liberate Kuwait who was being held illegally by Saddam (Iraq). Incidentally, Saddam massacred many Kuwaitis, not to mention many Kurds in Northern Iraq. Long story short, we weren't massacring anybody.

[VT1419]

No shit, you idiot. Of course, a crescent was around before Islam bastardized it. How about this?  A swastika was a symbol of luck and was on many first print Rudyard Kipling works. Now how is it perceived? Pure evil, thanks in large part to Hitler. All symbols have origins beyond the visceral reactionary images they portray. How about a design that had a star and a liberty bell, some that were turned down for a more culturally palatable crescent.

[TheGreyboss]

omg YOU CALL THAT A CRESCENT?? that's a curved line, it's not a crescent and it's got a hole in it, you conspiracy theorists

[kennit1000]

Yes, the name still applies, because there are things that only existed before mankind could speak. Those things no longer exist, but we still have names for them.

Your comment puts me in mind of the philosophical question; "If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?"

The answer is yes, it does make a sound, unless you're "living" in the Matrix.

[SmartPorcupine]

this is good. shoot, I guess we should also color all our greenery to red, white, or blue since green is the color of the original Mohammed's flag :)

[AlwaysOnWatch]

Mr. Rawls asked me to post the following:

The design is not just a crescent, but a crescent and star flag, with the Sacred Ground Plaza (marking the crash site) sitting between the crescent tips (the position of the star on an Islamic flag). Note also that there IS a religious application of the Muslim crescent: in forming the Mecca-direction indicators around which every mosque is built. The memorial will be the world's largest mosque.

[birthdaynick80]

@AlwaysOnWatch but the star is supposed to point east! this would be an inverted symbol the way it's being laid out. If muslims even cared about this symbol as much as conspiracy nuts do, then it would be the equivalent of assuming that an upside-down cross represents christianity!

[SirFrancisDashwood15]

''I don't want to go there...''. Well, that explains why you haven't awakened...yet. You have to 'go there' to get it. Dr. Paul Craig Roberts gets it, though I've not seen him in a tin foil hat. How can anyone who watches a vid of WTC Building 7 collapsing, at free-fall speed, not see that it's obviously a controlled demolition. Compare it with the Chinese building that recently burned for days from top to bottom without collapsing. Barry Jennings witnessed the 7 bombing; now he's dead, killed.

[chrisvet1]

Government will expand whenever & wherever possible.

In this case, a new bureaucracy to maintain this new 'business.'

[ChristianLove2008]

what the fuck does cresent moon have to do with Islam? its not even an an Islamic symbol dumbass

[topf3ss]

sis you watch the video? thats what its about...

[kennit1000]

The moon was around long before humanity, therefor the crescent was also.

[thwart13]

911 was CLEARLY controlled demolition.....oh im so tired of it,ZzZzZz go back to sleep.

[stevinmarin]

The obvious way to make everyone happy would be to plant two large shrubs and make it a giant smiley. : )

[blupheonix44]

What about crescent rolls??

OMG! MUSLIMS ARE TRYING TO INVADE BREAKFAST!!!! ROFLMAO!

[ramzpaul]

We should call them Freedom Rolls.

[blupheonix44]

Should just make it in the form of a big goats head, and blame it on satanists.... LOL

Hail Satan! =)

[ramzpaul]

Would make as much sense as blaming it on the Iraqis.