Iris Murdoch and Jiddu Krishnamurti Talk (2/11)

[breck42able]

Krishna is merely pointing out that love is not the sense of comfort a slave has to an owner, or owner to slave, which is based on domination and for which most humans mistake as love. Love is seeing yourself as equal to another, because you see yourself "as" the other, which is based on dominion. Therefore, love is the seeing that the perceiver is the perceived.

[kuvtsisnyiamkoj]

There is division in every human because our brain is like a radio station or a cell phone. Our minds can be read and also can have crossover of thoughts. It is like having some one else on the phone line intentionally or unintentionally. This means humans are nothing more than a complex robot.

We are doomed to self destruction once we become too arrogant. Because the watcher will not allow us to liv e on forever to abuse others: people will die and countries come and go.

[ToListen]

Thank you, Roubiere, for posting these videos.

[MURDOCMULDOON]

as above so below ,

if you have conflict and division in your self

you will create it in your house and world...

[jayrc11123]

that's exactly what I am saying, there is division in philosophy (your view and my view). Spiritulity is not dependent on anything as a matter of fact it is independent, a total freedom, where everything is just is...no further confussion...and if there is one then and even that is also included...completely.

[jayrc11123]

and I must say that philosophy is the one dependent on the person's definition. Spirituality has no division in it...unless you are mixing up religion with spirituality

[jayrc11123]

Nothing is outside of spirituality. Spirituality includes philosophy, don't divide them. The problem starts with division. There is no east or west, it is a man created division. The earth itself is round ( if you may say so).

[sketchup73]

Krishnamurti  'knows'

[wonderwhaz797]

How does one watch without some motive. The reason most people watch is because they want some result. Why should I be aware of envy unless I have a problem with it and/or desire to become. If I watch with the intention to dissolve envy, that's STILL DESIRE. The watcher is still the I. Who the hell is going to look at envy just for the sake of looking at it like you would when you're watching a bird?! Come on! We look at the bird because it delights us. Do you really like watching your envy?!

[Roubiere]

Thank you for your balanced comment. You live up to your name.

[melanheart]

Agree totally with okb1313 about different wavelengths. K emphasizes on seeing it, which means understanding what is meant actually, non-verbally; therefore, it is not understanding intellectually.

[BrianTheMusicMan]

She is so innocently Western!

[melanheart]

A well educated mind with a degree doesn't help when having no clue. This woman can't understand K any at all, no matter how much she tries to show off academic style, philosophical attempt, just like Dr. Anderson in another video series. Although K can't communicate with those who don't understand his points, the videos are helpful for seeing what is meant and what is missed.

[rabbitshirt]

I think he feels some challenge with her. He likes her obviously. If it were me, I'd be like "GET THE F OUTTA HERE!"

[manojv89]

she should just shut the hell up and let him talk.

[rabbitshirt]

This woman would NEVER be my analyst! :P

[okb1313]

I think that JK's message was very simple: look at yourself AS YOU ARE NOW, without bringing in all your past memories and conditioning because this is the only way you'll have the freedom to see what you really are. This freedom to see IS the truth, the love, the meditation. Thanks for posting Roubiere...

[okb1313]

I wouldn't say that JK doesn't listen to Iris but she keeps trying to bring the real world and the way we live into what JK is saying - but the real world (which we have created) is nothing like that. The love that JK is talking about is nothing like the love we think we know. And this is the problem - words get in the way of understanding.

[okb1313]

These 2 people are clearly on a different wavelength to each other. Iris, try as she may, cannot see what JK is saying. JK tries to guide her gently, step by step, through what he says but doesn't succeed. he even gets frustrated at one point and says "Go find out Niravana, don't talk about it!" iris's education and profession gets in the way of her "seeing" what he says, although she understands him intellectually.

[daiveejay]

this lady is a psicologist thats why SHE IS SO FUCKING CONFUSED. he is trying to bring her into comprehension which is the only form of freedom.

[seekwisdominside]

And I forgot my manners: THANKS, Roubiere, for posting these very interesting talks. Shall view more of them. Take best care.

[seekwisdominside]

How people can consume his books full of empty, self-aggrandizing, unsound statements was always a baffling mystery to me. No offence to the ones that like him. But be reminded that so-called "carisma" is by no means an indication of making sense, having wisdom and conducting yourself in a wholesome and healthy way as an individual (which Mr. Krishnamurti definitely didn't do, either.) Peace to all. Look inside. Learn to meditate. The answer is in there.

[simptoon]

listen very carefully to K..Very carefully indeed. His philopsphy cuts like a lazer beam or diamond. He starts from point of duality and moves towards oneness..or to out it simply pure Love in relationship. To be is to relate. And torelate fully is to Love. K is I feel the great modern teacher

[mujoshu]

Peace to all. Look inside. Learn to meditate. The answer is in there. - This is his entire message. Not sure what you are on about at all.

He makes total sense to me. Perhaps you are the problem in this case.

Will you take this personally as an attack or will you take it as an attempt to come to a mutual understanding?

[seekwisdominside]

yes, it's hard to follow, and that is because 1) krishnamurti practically never really LISTENS to anybody and therefore 2) what he is saying isn't very much relating to Iris' quite interesting, clear-cut, philosophically challenging and profoundly searching answers and 3) well, Krishnamurti is probably one of the most erratically overrated so-called "gurus" or our time - and he has not much to say. To call this guy "wise" is quite deluded.

[koreankayagum]

Is that a joke? Western philosopy typically overcomplicates matters and gets hopelessly lost in abstractions and concepts. In short, it's a convoluted mess that doesn't face life squarely. Look at Hegel, Kant, and so on. Give me a break! One needs hundreds and hundreds of pages to say something meaningful?

[fgrod]

existence is suffering if you dwell in desire and becoming. Love is different - they get to it finally about 9 minutes in.

[ellandelachapelle]

If he has divided the world into "good" and "bad" he has already created a conflict!

My impression: he has stopped asking questions (his "questions" imply the answers) whereas she seems to be always questioning! (with a sincere curiosity.) Of course, it takes courage to have an open mind! (it means letting the thoughts of the other inspire/affect your own thoughts.)

[fhumayun]

He proposes the divisions which are apparently held, and attempts to negate them in a movement towards non-duality. The interviewer is trying to conduct an interview, hence seeming to be the bearing the onus of asking questions. Once the machinery of thought becomes apparent, questions subside to give way to understanding -- which is then attempted to be communicated through an interview.

[koreankayagum]

No, no, no. K's thought evolved over the decades. If you look at his talks/writings from the 1940s, 50s, and so on, you'll see what I mean. He DID change his thinking, but he wasn't going to blindly accept what anyone said at any given moment. He would think quite deeply about what others said IF they had something to say. You have to understand that K spoke to MANY intellectuals, and all that Murdoch is saying he had heard again and again from others. It was nothing new to him.

[Jangaboo]

i like the discussion of good and bad and why we condemn ourselves or judge ourselves, division....pretty good stuff but also hard to follow