The people lucky enough to have heard Scott Joplin play all attest to his singing tone, perfect sense of rhythm, and an underlying current of melancholy. I believe we have all that here. Beautiful rendition and keep up the good work!
"Notice! Don't play this piece fast. It is inever right to play ragtime fast. Author."
With the Ragtime revival of the 1940's, some younger players interpreted these instructions over-literally, slowing some inherently lively pieces to a dispirited walk. (Scott Joplin: Complete Piano Works, by Rudi Blesh pg. xxix, Paragraph 2)
I know Silver Swan Rag is a melancholy and pensive piece, but it doesn't have to be so slow. Look at Joplin's rolls. They are nowhere near that slow...
To be quite honest, I DO NOT CARE at what speed Joplin played his rags. I play them as I like; maybe if Scott Joplin were alive to listen he would like my interpretation. And maybe not. My usual response to comments like yours is: "No one is forcing you to listen; if you don't like the tempo, listen to something else." And, of course, if you want to post your OWN version, that would be even better.
@cappy92 During his life and after his death, young socialites would gather for "Maple Leaf Competitions", in which contestants would see who could whiz through Maple Leaf Rag the fastest. That must have had Joplin rolling over in his grave.
This is ragtime, not mopey honky tonk silliness. Where's the joy? Not knocking your technique at all (compliments to the chef), but lordy am I not having fun listening. :-(
i played a kholer and kampbell grand the other day at a piano shop, im only 12 just to let you know, and i loved the tone. it was a bit untuned tone, but all the notes were in tune. it sounded sort oflike this piano.
Good, but I think that (even if it's true that Joplin has often been played too fast ,and it was a mistake), many performances now sound to my ears really TOO slow.
I should probably re-post this piece, as I've not just had the piano tuned, it's been replaced altogether by a full 9 foot concert grand (which I just had tuned & the hammers filed the other day), and I have access to better recording equipment. (If you check out some of my newer ragtime postings you'll notice a difference, I think...)
I think that's right; I recall someone mentioning a theory that 'Reflection Rag' was cobbled together from music remaining among Scott Joplin's possessions after he died.
So, looking at your channel, I see that you seem to have left comments on other people's videos about how their piano needs to be tuned. Fine; but if you have nothing else to comment, you are just being a jerk leaving comments like that: it is not any real sort of comment on their playing, on the piece. All you are saying is something they are probably painfully aware of themselves. I suggest you send them money to have their pianos tuned, you jerk!
hmm.. in your opinion, what is the best scott joplin song? My middle school is gonna have a black history concert and i dont no what 2 play.. great job by the ways
Both Dick Hyman and Max Morath recorded versions of The Silver Swan. Morath's version is faster and kinda bouncy. Hyman plays it slower and sounds more lyrical. Very interesting contrasts.
That's a wonderful word, actually, but, seriously.... enough, please. I have, as I have already said, heard what you are saying a hundred times or more & I'm becoming snappish. I will keep the advice under consideration, and I do, frequently, try playing Ragtime in the more conventional manner to see if my feelings on the matter have changed.
wanted to point out one more thing about your "swinging". in School of Ragtime, Joplin states in several of the exercises that he intends his music to be played as written. exercise 6 says "..the 'Joplin ragtime' is destroyed by careless or imperfect rendering...that each note will be playd as written" and exercise 2 says "it is evedent that by giving each note its proper time and by scrumpulously observing the ties, you will get the effect". these are Joplin's exact words on his playing.
I hang my head in shame and say that I not only play the notes NOT exactly as written, but I vary the time, the tempo, the rthymic pattern - sometimes a swing, sometimes a 'scottish' snap, sometimes other things. But it's not carelessness in my case; I usually spend some time working out HOW I wish to vary all these things. What can I do? I like to play Ragtime the way I do. I HAVE heard other people play Ragtime. Really! I DO NOT LIKE IT THE WAY YOU SEEM TO THINK I SHOULD PLAY IT. OK?
yeah i agree 100 is WAY TOO fast for ragtime. In Joplin's "Sugar Cane Rag" and "Pine Apple Rag" the printed tempo is 100 but i play these at about 80. Fastest ive played any rag is "Maple Leaf" at 90, "Elite Syncopations" about 90, "The Cascades" about 90, "Ragtime Dance" 85-90, "Stoptime Rag" at 100 (Jolin says 'fast or slow' on the music, he dont care), "Scott Joplins New Rag" at 90 (says allegro moderato on the music) and the rest of the rags around 72, some like "The Entertainer" around 60.
Well, on tempo, at least, we're agreed. :) 'Solace' is one piece of Joplin's that I DO prefer without swing....I'm not sure if this is because that's how I heard it played as a kid in "The Sting" or not, but the version I hope to upload sometime soon is pretty swingless.
lol its ok i wasnt trying to grill you, just saying my opinion. some rag composers, mostly lesser knows would write the swing into their pieces. oh and i was wrong about playing the B section at the 100 i had said, i looked in my book and i have written over the section "about 72" lol i was off a little. if youd like ill make a video of Silver Swan and you can tell me what you think too :)
You'e a good sport. :) I personally think a m.m. of 100 is way too fast; 72 makes more sense (I wonder sometimes if Rags shouldn't have been written in 4/4 time rather than 2/4, with 8ths instead of 16ths. THEN a mm of 100 would be more sensible).
I'm probably going to, someday, post a 'too fast and straight' version of a rag, just so people know I CAN play that way. If you'd like to post something, I'd be happy to offer my (non-flaming) opinion. Ya never know: you might convince me! ;)
i also meant to say pick up the CD "Piano Rags by Scott Joplin" with Joshua Rifkin at the piano and THAT is how Joplin is suppose to be played. Remember - Joplin considered himself a classical composer.
Well, thank you for at least not flaming me about the swing rhythm, as others sometimes do. I've heard, probably a hundred or more times now, the assertion (sometimes very dogmatic) that ragtime is not supposed to be swung . As for piano rolls, I recall hearing one (by Joplin) where it WAS a swing rhythm. (No, can't provide a link & my memory could be off!) Anyway, I've been playing ragtime a while (20+ years); I used to play it WITHOUT swing, but now I usually prefer the swing. Sorry!
Ive listined to some of your videos of Joplin, and while you technically play all of the correct notes, your rhythm is not what Joplin wrote. Ragtime does not "swing" - it is a straight foreward music. Even in Joplin's own piano rolls, he did not swing the rhytem. try this in "Silver Swan" and tell me what you think - play the intro and A section at 60, B section at about 100, then back to 60 for the rest of the piece.
when "Silver Swan Rag" was found as a piano player roll the label stated "played by Scott Joplin". years later anoter roll of this rag was discovered citing Joplin as the composer. the rag was composed sometime around 1907-1914 and has qualities of several of the later Joplin rags such as the B section in the relative minor key. Ed Berlin's book "King of Ragtime" is throughly researched and reveals many interesting details about the composition of the different rags.
Wonderfully Played.(A Bit Slower Than I Like But Good) But I Don't Think You Should Get A Huge Grand Piano. Way To Mush Money! Insted I Think You Should Get Your Self A Full Upright! 60Inches Tall For That Best Tone Quality.A Good Upright Beats A Baby Grand But Not A Full Grand. 100,000 For A Grand Or 10,000 For A Full Upright?
Glad you liked it, though a bit slow. Too late not to get a huge grand piano .... :) (I actually did recently get a newer, much better piano....and it's huge - a full 9 feet! O_o No..... I didn't have 100 grand to spend, the piano was used.... but still very, very nice. Pricy even used, but too good an opportunity to pass up, it seemed.) Now I must get better recording equipment.
Definitely a better piano than I had ever expected I would have....a rare opportunity - the last time a used 9' was available was something like 10 years ago. And it was a residential piano! :) My old piano is a 112 year-old Smith & Barnes 56". It was a good piano when it was first made, but it is in terribly rough shape now after 17 years of abuse from me. (And it was not in great shape to begin with!)
Heh; the transportation cost from Winnipeg to LA would be a killer! ;) I still like my old piano; if I ever have the extra money to waste (in my tuner's view) on restoring it, I'd like to do it. The poor thing's given me many years of music!
I think your interpretation reflects how Joplin wanted it to be: melancholic, slow and with some bitterness in it - excellent ! (by the way 'reflection rag' was also published posthumously)
Thank you very much! :) Come to think of it, I think you're right about Reflection Rag; it was published shortly after Scott Joplin's death (and shortly before the 'death' of Stark Music too, I think), whereas Silver Swan was published WAYYY after!
Actually, Silver Swan was published in Joplin's lifetime -- just not as sheet music. It was published as a piano roll in 1914. As for Reflection Rag, it is thought that in fact it might not have been composed that way by Joplin, but simply be an arrangement of assorted strains from Joplin manuscripts that Stark had never published. They're certainly older, simpler strains than what he wrote after his days with Stark.
Interesting information. :) "Reflection Rag" strikes me as not quite holding together completely (attractive as it is); that would be explained if Stark were the arranger. I find, "Silver Swan", simple as it is, a lovely, touching piece of music.
Hi interesting to hear this played on the piano as it was originally intended. I've only ever heard it and play it myself on the guitar. According to Stefan Grossman's comments on this song in his book 'Fingerpicking delights' this song was found on an old piano roll in the New York City library during the Scott Joplin revival of the 1970's (after the film 'The Sting became a box - office smash hit) - Composer unknown! Thanks for posting your video.
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When Joplin wrote "Don´t play it fast. Its never right, to play ragtime fast!"
he ment "Do play it right. Its never right, to play ragtime wrong!"
lilataubenei 4 months ago
Comment removed
lilataubenei 4 months ago
The people lucky enough to have heard Scott Joplin play all attest to his singing tone, perfect sense of rhythm, and an underlying current of melancholy. I believe we have all that here. Beautiful rendition and keep up the good work!
meats0 1 year ago
@meats0
What a wonderful compliment! Thank you! :-)
Kamibambiraptor 1 year ago
It is never right to play ragtime fast.
-Scott Joplin
cappy92 1 year ago
@cappy92
It's amazing how many people seem to forget that!
Kamibambiraptor 1 year ago
@Kamibambiraptor
"Notice! Don't play this piece fast. It is inever right to play ragtime fast. Author."
With the Ragtime revival of the 1940's, some younger players interpreted these instructions over-literally, slowing some inherently lively pieces to a dispirited walk. (Scott Joplin: Complete Piano Works, by Rudi Blesh pg. xxix, Paragraph 2)
I know Silver Swan Rag is a melancholy and pensive piece, but it doesn't have to be so slow. Look at Joplin's rolls. They are nowhere near that slow...
TheYarxia 10 months ago
@TheYarxia
To be quite honest, I DO NOT CARE at what speed Joplin played his rags. I play them as I like; maybe if Scott Joplin were alive to listen he would like my interpretation. And maybe not. My usual response to comments like yours is: "No one is forcing you to listen; if you don't like the tempo, listen to something else." And, of course, if you want to post your OWN version, that would be even better.
Kamibambiraptor 10 months ago
@cappy92 During his life and after his death, young socialites would gather for "Maple Leaf Competitions", in which contestants would see who could whiz through Maple Leaf Rag the fastest. That must have had Joplin rolling over in his grave.
meats0 1 year ago
Well I put it in my favorites I thought it was really nice.
chrisirwin34 1 year ago
This is ragtime, not mopey honky tonk silliness. Where's the joy? Not knocking your technique at all (compliments to the chef), but lordy am I not having fun listening. :-(
svpdefenestrez 2 years ago
Go listen to something else then, poor thing.
Kamibambiraptor 2 years ago
piano sounds fine, and i love your playing.
JamesPriceJohnson 2 years ago
You are very kind! This is one of my favourite rags by Scott Joplin. :-)
Kamibambiraptor 2 years ago
i played a kholer and kampbell grand the other day at a piano shop, im only 12 just to let you know, and i loved the tone. it was a bit untuned tone, but all the notes were in tune. it sounded sort oflike this piano.
JamesPriceJohnson 2 years ago
Good, but I think that (even if it's true that Joplin has often been played too fast ,and it was a mistake), many performances now sound to my ears really TOO slow.
beginner57 2 years ago
I like the piece. However, please tune your piano ;)
RE144 2 years ago
I should probably re-post this piece, as I've not just had the piano tuned, it's been replaced altogether by a full 9 foot concert grand (which I just had tuned & the hammers filed the other day), and I have access to better recording equipment. (If you check out some of my newer ragtime postings you'll notice a difference, I think...)
(I'm glad you liked the piece by the way! :) )
Kamibambiraptor 2 years ago
According to the Perfessor's site, I do believe another posthumous rag of Joplin's is the Reflection Rag.
josiah566 2 years ago
I think that's right; I recall someone mentioning a theory that 'Reflection Rag' was cobbled together from music remaining among Scott Joplin's possessions after he died.
Kamibambiraptor 2 years ago
jet1best, old pianos like this were meant to be like this. This is the bar piano. This is very nice.
waddleduckie1 3 years ago
Thank you kindly! :)
Kamibambiraptor 3 years ago
terrible soundcamera u got, but i forgive u, because i self dont have a good one too, but uhm, ur piano really NEEDS TO BE TUNED!!!
jetibest 3 years ago
So, looking at your channel, I see that you seem to have left comments on other people's videos about how their piano needs to be tuned. Fine; but if you have nothing else to comment, you are just being a jerk leaving comments like that: it is not any real sort of comment on their playing, on the piece. All you are saying is something they are probably painfully aware of themselves. I suggest you send them money to have their pianos tuned, you jerk!
Kamibambiraptor 3 years ago
hmm.. in your opinion, what is the best scott joplin song? My middle school is gonna have a black history concert and i dont no what 2 play.. great job by the ways
DirectorJavaun 3 years ago
I think my favourite of Joplin's rags is "Gladiolus Rag", another favourite is "Weeping Willow Rag" (which is somewhat easier).
Glad you liked the piece; best of luck with your concert! :)
Kamibambiraptor 3 years ago
Well played :) 5* for sure :)
Keep at it :)
Thomas
thomandy 3 years ago
Thank you very much! :)
Kamibambiraptor 3 years ago
Splendid. A capital rendition, indeed; I have never heard the piece as good.
auberginea 3 years ago
You are too kind! :)
Kamibambiraptor 3 years ago
Both Dick Hyman and Max Morath recorded versions of The Silver Swan. Morath's version is faster and kinda bouncy. Hyman plays it slower and sounds more lyrical. Very interesting contrasts.
Grouchy2day 3 years ago
Thank you for the references; I should probably listen to more recorded music than I do (almost none), but rarely seem to have the time!
Kamibambiraptor 3 years ago
scrumpulously - sorry scrupulously, typed it wrong.... but means concienciously and exactly.
Doug19752533 3 years ago
That's a wonderful word, actually, but, seriously.... enough, please. I have, as I have already said, heard what you are saying a hundred times or more & I'm becoming snappish. I will keep the advice under consideration, and I do, frequently, try playing Ragtime in the more conventional manner to see if my feelings on the matter have changed.
Kamibambiraptor 3 years ago
maybe you were confusing with other word "scrumptious", meaning very delicious but sort of informal word.
whitetetyb 3 years ago
wanted to point out one more thing about your "swinging". in School of Ragtime, Joplin states in several of the exercises that he intends his music to be played as written. exercise 6 says "..the 'Joplin ragtime' is destroyed by careless or imperfect rendering...that each note will be playd as written" and exercise 2 says "it is evedent that by giving each note its proper time and by scrumpulously observing the ties, you will get the effect". these are Joplin's exact words on his playing.
Doug19752533 3 years ago
I hang my head in shame and say that I not only play the notes NOT exactly as written, but I vary the time, the tempo, the rthymic pattern - sometimes a swing, sometimes a 'scottish' snap, sometimes other things. But it's not carelessness in my case; I usually spend some time working out HOW I wish to vary all these things. What can I do? I like to play Ragtime the way I do. I HAVE heard other people play Ragtime. Really! I DO NOT LIKE IT THE WAY YOU SEEM TO THINK I SHOULD PLAY IT. OK?
Kamibambiraptor 3 years ago
yeah i agree 100 is WAY TOO fast for ragtime. In Joplin's "Sugar Cane Rag" and "Pine Apple Rag" the printed tempo is 100 but i play these at about 80. Fastest ive played any rag is "Maple Leaf" at 90, "Elite Syncopations" about 90, "The Cascades" about 90, "Ragtime Dance" 85-90, "Stoptime Rag" at 100 (Jolin says 'fast or slow' on the music, he dont care), "Scott Joplins New Rag" at 90 (says allegro moderato on the music) and the rest of the rags around 72, some like "The Entertainer" around 60.
Doug19752533 3 years ago
Well, on tempo, at least, we're agreed. :) 'Solace' is one piece of Joplin's that I DO prefer without swing....I'm not sure if this is because that's how I heard it played as a kid in "The Sting" or not, but the version I hope to upload sometime soon is pretty swingless.
Kamibambiraptor 3 years ago
lol its ok i wasnt trying to grill you, just saying my opinion. some rag composers, mostly lesser knows would write the swing into their pieces. oh and i was wrong about playing the B section at the 100 i had said, i looked in my book and i have written over the section "about 72" lol i was off a little. if youd like ill make a video of Silver Swan and you can tell me what you think too :)
Doug19752533 3 years ago
You'e a good sport. :) I personally think a m.m. of 100 is way too fast; 72 makes more sense (I wonder sometimes if Rags shouldn't have been written in 4/4 time rather than 2/4, with 8ths instead of 16ths. THEN a mm of 100 would be more sensible).
I'm probably going to, someday, post a 'too fast and straight' version of a rag, just so people know I CAN play that way. If you'd like to post something, I'd be happy to offer my (non-flaming) opinion. Ya never know: you might convince me! ;)
Kamibambiraptor 3 years ago
i also meant to say pick up the CD "Piano Rags by Scott Joplin" with Joshua Rifkin at the piano and THAT is how Joplin is suppose to be played. Remember - Joplin considered himself a classical composer.
Doug19752533 3 years ago
Well, thank you for at least not flaming me about the swing rhythm, as others sometimes do. I've heard, probably a hundred or more times now, the assertion (sometimes very dogmatic) that ragtime is not supposed to be swung . As for piano rolls, I recall hearing one (by Joplin) where it WAS a swing rhythm. (No, can't provide a link & my memory could be off!) Anyway, I've been playing ragtime a while (20+ years); I used to play it WITHOUT swing, but now I usually prefer the swing. Sorry!
Kamibambiraptor 3 years ago
Ive listined to some of your videos of Joplin, and while you technically play all of the correct notes, your rhythm is not what Joplin wrote. Ragtime does not "swing" - it is a straight foreward music. Even in Joplin's own piano rolls, he did not swing the rhytem. try this in "Silver Swan" and tell me what you think - play the intro and A section at 60, B section at about 100, then back to 60 for the rest of the piece.
Doug19752533 3 years ago
bro, you need to tune your piano!!! it's almost 30 cents flat! By the way, scott didn't write this. It was attributed to him.
jayjax1 4 years ago
when "Silver Swan Rag" was found as a piano player roll the label stated "played by Scott Joplin". years later anoter roll of this rag was discovered citing Joplin as the composer. the rag was composed sometime around 1907-1914 and has qualities of several of the later Joplin rags such as the B section in the relative minor key. Ed Berlin's book "King of Ragtime" is throughly researched and reveals many interesting details about the composition of the different rags.
Doug19752533 3 years ago
Wonderfully Played.(A Bit Slower Than I Like But Good) But I Don't Think You Should Get A Huge Grand Piano. Way To Mush Money! Insted I Think You Should Get Your Self A Full Upright! 60Inches Tall For That Best Tone Quality.A Good Upright Beats A Baby Grand But Not A Full Grand. 100,000 For A Grand Or 10,000 For A Full Upright?
Morahman7vnNo2 4 years ago
Glad you liked it, though a bit slow. Too late not to get a huge grand piano .... :) (I actually did recently get a newer, much better piano....and it's huge - a full 9 feet! O_o No..... I didn't have 100 grand to spend, the piano was used.... but still very, very nice. Pricy even used, but too good an opportunity to pass up, it seemed.) Now I must get better recording equipment.
Kamibambiraptor 4 years ago
Really? Wow! Way-To-Trade Up! What Was Your Old Piano? A Sprint,Console Or Studio? I'm Gessing Console.
Morahman7vnNo2 4 years ago
Definitely a better piano than I had ever expected I would have....a rare opportunity - the last time a used 9' was available was something like 10 years ago. And it was a residential piano! :) My old piano is a 112 year-old Smith & Barnes 56". It was a good piano when it was first made, but it is in terribly rough shape now after 17 years of abuse from me. (And it was not in great shape to begin with!)
Kamibambiraptor 4 years ago
112 Year-Old!? And It Still Dosent Sound Like A Honky-Tonk? Hell I'll Take It Off Your Hands If You Don't Want It Any More.
Morahman7vnNo2 4 years ago
Heh; the transportation cost from Winnipeg to LA would be a killer! ;) I still like my old piano; if I ever have the extra money to waste (in my tuner's view) on restoring it, I'd like to do it. The poor thing's given me many years of music!
Kamibambiraptor 4 years ago
I think your interpretation reflects how Joplin wanted it to be: melancholic, slow and with some bitterness in it - excellent ! (by the way 'reflection rag' was also published posthumously)
tgirlmegaly 4 years ago
Thank you very much! :) Come to think of it, I think you're right about Reflection Rag; it was published shortly after Scott Joplin's death (and shortly before the 'death' of Stark Music too, I think), whereas Silver Swan was published WAYYY after!
Kamibambiraptor 4 years ago
Actually, Silver Swan was published in Joplin's lifetime -- just not as sheet music. It was published as a piano roll in 1914. As for Reflection Rag, it is thought that in fact it might not have been composed that way by Joplin, but simply be an arrangement of assorted strains from Joplin manuscripts that Stark had never published. They're certainly older, simpler strains than what he wrote after his days with Stark.
Keeper1st 4 years ago
Interesting information. :) "Reflection Rag" strikes me as not quite holding together completely (attractive as it is); that would be explained if Stark were the arranger. I find, "Silver Swan", simple as it is, a lovely, touching piece of music.
Kamibambiraptor 4 years ago
Hi interesting to hear this played on the piano as it was originally intended. I've only ever heard it and play it myself on the guitar. According to Stefan Grossman's comments on this song in his book 'Fingerpicking delights' this song was found on an old piano roll in the New York City library during the Scott Joplin revival of the 1970's (after the film 'The Sting became a box - office smash hit) - Composer unknown! Thanks for posting your video.
teumut 4 years ago
You're welcome.... and thanks for adding to my knowledge about this piece! :)
Kamibambiraptor 4 years ago