Re: The Blasphemy Challenge

[mrcooldude964]

matt 10:32 “Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. 33 but whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.

you mite think its a joke now but heaven and hell are real. just like you tell a biker to put on his helmet. he will not even think twice and say no. but once he gets in a serious wreck the reality kicks in and its to late. same with jesus and eternity. put jesus on now.its to late when your standing before him

[mrcooldude964]

we all sinned and are sinners, no one is good accept god, yes your body will rott. but your spirit and soul will live for eternity either in heaven or hell,

jesus is the only way to heaven. those who seek jesus will find him, even if you dont believe hes real. as god that if ehs real to show himself to you in his way and he will. (thats seeking) the time will come when youll know god is real

[Xoltaric]

@mrcooldude964 What god? What's a spirit or a soul? What's heaven or hell? Provide a suitable, testable, definition for these concepts and then I can consider your claim. Until then you're just talking nonsense. By the way, given what you've written, it's rather clear that my 'TrueChristian' credentials trump your own. You are providing no new information and just simply parroting simplistic propaganda.

[mrcooldude964]

@Xoltaric When a monkey gives birth it gives birth to a monkey. (Scientifically proven fact)

When a horse gives birth it gives birth to a horse (scientific proven fact)

When humans give birth they give birth to humans (scientific proven fact)

Always been that way and always will be (it’s not rocket science)

So evolution is out the window.

God is the one who created all things. Without god nothing would be

[Xoltaric]

@mrcooldude964 There are so many problems with this logic it isn't even funny. For one thing, this isn't how evolution works at all. If you have been taught that evolution is a monkey giving birth to a human, then you've been lied to. The issue is that while a horse isn't going to give birth to a member of a different species, that in 1000 generations, the offspring will be a different species from the original which is how evolution works. Evolution happens, arguing against it is futile.

[1NWOMD]

@mrcooldude964

Jesus may be the only way to get to heaven, but Alice is the only way to Wonderland. Peter Pan is the only way to Never Never land but...the red pill is the only way to the Matrix. The only way to destroy the ring of POWER is to take it deep into Mordor and thrown back into the fiery depths of Mount Doom from when’s it came. The ONLY way the spaghetti monster could ever satisfy your hunger… is... for YOU TO EAT HIM!!

[Andizottel]

I think the blasphemy challenge IS a way to empower people. Of course it won't convince the hardcore religious people about anything, but that's very difficult anyway.

But the ones who aren't really sure about hell and such things see this and could think "hey, there are quite a few people who aren't afraid at all, maybe I don't have to be afraid to"

(and, yeah, this comes pretty late, I just discovered your video)

[Xoltaric]

@Andizottel Thanks for the comment. You're right of course, there is certainly value behind any show of solidarity like this one. Do you think, though, that this takes away from my point?

[Andizottel]

@Xoltaric "takes this away from my point?" Your point is kind of like Phil Plaits "don't be a dick" and ,yeah, screaming at somebody that s/he's an idiot doesn't help persuading. But making fun of ideas or even beeing a bit mean (while having some valid points of course) is good, too. Some people will only start to notice you when you're not all polite and logical, some will start to think because they don't like beeing laughed at.

(It's mostly people in the audience of such a conversation) ...

[Xoltaric]

@Andizottel Ridicule definitely has persuasive power. It can also reinforce negative stereotypes. We need dicks (that's what she said) but we also need to be strategic. What you think might be a valid point may just seem silly to a religious person and, believe me, that's how a lot of our arguments come across. If you don't understand the religious experience, you won't understand how silly you sound when eg, you ask for a demonstration of the effectiveness of prayer. Why? Read the Bible.

[Andizottel]

@Xoltaric There's imho only one strategy that will never work: lying.

And there will never be any one argument that will persuade someone anyhow; we have to put out constantly everything we've got and one "silly" argument may be the tipping point. People don't become atheists over night, it's a slow process.

Btw I've read the bible. It's silly! And: "For every one that asketh receiveth" Mt 7,8

So, "why doesn't prayer work?" is a valid question and may persuade one or another at some point.

[Andizottel]

@Xoltaric [continued] There are many different people, and we need many different ways to open their eyes.

So, you do it your way, and others will do it their way and together we'll change the world!!! Yeah!

P.S.: You're dumb for thinking that only your way will persuade people! ;-)

[SummerSunshine1988]

God does exist.

[Xoltaric]

@SummerSunshine1988 Only in the minds of believers.

[Whatsthis1do]

Religion Works?: with major religions there is an overwhelming I'm right your wrong mentality (my Gods bigger then your God) This thinking has caused FAR more death on this planet then anything else. Religion has been used as a form of control and has kept many empires from faltering. If you won't fight for your king/country you sure as hell will fight for your God. It has given reason to oppress and kill women, homosexuals, and other races.

[Whatsthis1do]

Religion Works: There is comfort of having a "father" when options are at an end, Its comforting to look up and think that there is something there to fix things.

What ever you get your power from in this world is a good source to get your mind back on track in order to correct your life.

Every person needs a fire under there ass in order to become better then they are. Knowing that you are working towards a better life whether it be true or not enables you try and be a better person.

[Whatsthis1do]

I am not an Atheist, I do believe very easily that there are many things more powerful then the ego of man. The connection of existences is my god and I am confident that I will never understand the full spectrum of what that actually is.

Good video neighbor

[Xoltaric]

Thanks for the comments. It's kind of funny that with a few subtle changes, I can take this paragraph and turn it into a succinct definition of my own worldview:

I am an atheist, I do believe very easily that there are many things more powerful then the ego of man. The connection of existences is superfeckincool and I am confident that I will never understand the full spectrum of what that actually is.

[Xoltaric]

Many of the "Arrogant Atheists" are as bad as the religious when it comes to confusing belief with knowledge. 

Theism and atheism are answers to questions of belief, not of knowledge.

One of the problems of the ego of man is the lack of objectivity. We're not that special at all in any objective sense. So being more powerful than man isn't that big a feat. Certainly not something worth deification for.

[Xoltaric]

I rest my case.

[mysterywalker]

you're actually going to hell for being so conspicuously canadian. it makes me wonder if i'm that noticeably (u.s.) american...

[Xoltaric]

Thanks, I think. :)

[pointyfinger]

Look,... anyhoo,....ignore the bibble, it ain't got fuck to do with you!...ditch it!....come at it from ignorant!

[WolfAtlantis]

Awesome video. Awesome cat. Also, cool animism group.

[pointyfinger]

You are assuming that god is made in the image of man......not quite got away from it yet....dude!

[Xoltaric]

Huh?

[horus358]

Great video! Thanx

[MadJokker]

We really don't care... but. if you are capable, consider the following, it fits you to a T,

"One's perceived intelligence often blinds them from their ignorance"

---rf

[Xoltaric]

Actually that doesn't fit me at all. I have far more questions than answers. It's just that my questions actually can be answered.

To quote the great Harvey Danger, I have "just enough knowledge to know I don't know anything."

Instead, it is the religious who:

-seemingly claim to understand the will of god

-know I'm going to hell

-know better than science

[GrumpyEWalk]

Good vid

5*

[inersphobia]

I agree with a lot of your points. Daniel Dennett talks a lot about this, of course. I think that one approach is through Humanist philanthropy. As you say, the appeal of being a free-thinker who rejects superstition is rather specific. People want to be a part of something important, which they feel religion is. Atheism is itself pointlesss. Ideally (and I hope one day) it will be a superfluous nomenclature. Until then, we need to publicise our humanitarian, and not just rational,values.

[runwithendurance]

our God would turn away a "good" person

all of our righteousness is like filthy rags

there's no possible we the entire world can come up with a moral absolute that determines that you have been a "good" person

[BewareOfDeceiver]

Yet another unfortunate soul who is seemingly intelligent yet a fool who is deceived. His choice is made. His fate is sealed by his own choice. Good luck...with your hope of becoming "FOOD". FOOL!

[Xoltaric]

I won't need luck to become food. I already am food.

[CBALLEN]

You can deny Him now,but one day you will be on your knees proclaiming Jesus is Lord.Remember these words.

[DerMilchknilch]

Thats exactly what i am thinkin. thx! 5*

[AstroMen2911]

Youre cute

[Mingylicious]

I think he can prove the fact of evolution :|

[giapetto1]

That rates 5 stars for a measured and reasonable thumbnail sketch of your beliefs,xoltaric.We all should opt for this kind of mutually respectful dialogue.

[Xoltaric]

bornagain,

Again I ask you, why are you here?

[bornagain001]

Uncle Karl...what are you referring to?

[bornagain001]

"The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge; but FOOLS despise wisdom and instruction." Proverbs 1:7

[Gwaithmir]

"...whosoever shall say, 'Thou fool,' shall be in danger of Hell fire." (Matthew 5:22)

[bornagain001]

That verse is referring to one Christian speaking to another Christian. You might want to read the Bible a little closer.

[Gwaithmir]

So it's okay for a Xian to call an atheist a fool, but not another Xian. What sublime logic.

[AmaLeniter24]

The word "fool" in chapter 5 has the connotation of a damned person which is who proverbs is talking about. That's why it says not to call someone a fool because it's an expression of anger which Jesus goes on to say is the came thing as murder.

[Clovions]

Love people who put comments with bible quotes ona video form an athiest. you think we fucking care about your bible quotes? we dont believe in GOD, your quotes DO NOT matter to us at all. it does not scare us, it does not make us want to convert to christianity, it does NOTHING. you're better off not wasting your time.

[bornagain001]

Atheists are fighting a loosing battle because God makes Himself "manifest" in every one of us. While most of the world opts to run their own life but still believes in a God, very few people actually discount the existence of God altogether. While Muslims and Christians (the two largest religions) differ on how one gets to Heaven, both groups worship ONE GOD.

[Xoltaric]

Yawn. Bornagain, when you're not telling me something I already know you're making tremendously illogical leaps and now spelling mistakes. Even if everyone believed in your god, that doesn't make your god real. You are also forgetting that the majority of people do not believe in your god. Your argument does not hold water.

[bornagain001]

"The FOOL has said in his heart, There is NO GOD." Psalms 14:1

[Cortez255]

watch?v=fdVucvo-kDU hmm... what now?...

[bornagain001]

One CAN however say a lot about the Creator of us all.

"I could prove God statistically. Take the human body alone. The chance that all the functions of the individual would "just happen" is a STATISTICAL MONSTROSITY."...George Gallup, statistician

[Xoltaric]

He, like you, seems to be completely ignorant of natural selection. No one is claiming it "just happened" because it didn't "just happen." Evolution has been a continuous process for billions of years! Whatever the odds were of humans coming about via natural selection, the odds of a creator existing are astronomical in comparison.

[bornagain001]

One can NOT add anything constructive to the discussion of atheism.

[Xoltaric]

ROFL. Maybe it is just you who can't. Besides, if that's what you really believe, what are you doing here? Are you just trolling? Why bother? You began with an interesting discussion but I guess you ran out of intelligent things to say. Please refrain from posting here if this is the attitude you are going to bring.

[bornagain001]

"I knit you together in your mothers womb".Psalms 139:13

"I chose you when I planned creation"..Ephesians 1:11-12

"For you are my offspring"..Acts 17:28

"I offer you more than your earthly father ever could".. Matthew 7:11

"I am your Father and I love you even as my son, Jesus".. John 17:23

[Xoltaric]

bornagain, I should think it obvious that your bible quotes aren't going to convince anyone. We already know the bible exists and some of us, like me, have even read it. You've been given ample opportunity to add something constructive to this discussion and it's been a long while since you have.

[dcbefga]

Great vid. 5 stars.

I'm not personally sold on the blasphemy challenge either, but I do think it is serving a function as a protest outlet for large numbers of people who have been ostracised for being atheists. What we're seeing is probably just the pendulum swinging out a little wildly after being rigidly held to one side for so long.

[Xoltaric]

Thanks dcbefga! I'm sure you're right about the pendulum, but the danger for us atheists is that we might get caught up in this whole modern atheist movement. Richard Dawkins' "A" campaign? Yuck. Lets pick our battles and fight them with wisdom.

[dcbefga]

Agreed. I think there's a growing need for the distinction between "atheism" and "anti-theism". The latter seems to be dominating too much for my liking. It's especially troubling since it's based on the fundamentalist premise that "nothing in religion is of any value", which I don't agree with. And, as you said, something in religion has to be working for it to be so prevalent.

[Xoltaric]

I agree with you again dcbefga. Much of the modern atheist movement is reactionary and that has to change if we hope to get the mainstream traction atheism deserves.

[klangsteiner]

An excellent video. I am currently researching the evolutionary foundations of religious belief. Evolutionary psychology is a new field, so there are a whole bunch of ideas out there, many of them are crap, but that is to be expected. Ever thought of becoming a memetic engineer or architect? I've toyed with the idea myself.

[Xoltaric]

Thanks for the kind words Klangsteiner. I'd be interested to hear some more of what you have learned. From what I have read, EP can be rather suspect, but it's a good start. As far as "memetic engineering" goes, it depends on what you mean but that sounds rather Orwellian to me. I'd prefer natural selection any day.

[klangsteiner]

I would say that my view of memetic engineering is along the lines of what Joseph Campbell suggested which was to develop a new mythology, since the ones we currently have date from the bronze age. I've been to the yoism dot org site and have found it to be entertaining, but lacking in the area that makes memes take hold in the human psyche. I imagine that memetic engineering could be used for nefarious purposes, but so can a butter knife.

[Xoltaric]

klangsteiner, thanks for the interesting discussion. I'll have to take a look at that site. I suppose my problem with memetic engineering is the same as my problem with communism. Communism is great in theory but in practice it becomes very clear how artificial a communist system is. I'm all for creating alternative memes and let them duke it out. I guess I'm more supportive of a new vision rather than a new program.

[klangsteiner]

Xoltaric, I think that creating a new vision based on new memes might work, but like you said about communism, great theories can be hard to implement because of idiosyncracies in human nature. It seems that, when good ideas come along, someone finds a way to exploit them to enhance their own position at the expense of others.

[Xoltaric]

Absolutely Klangsteiner, which is why I'm advocating a new vision rather than a new plan or memetic engineering. Old minds with a new plan will not get us where we need to be. New minds with a new vision will end up creating their own memes and ideas. That's the only way I can see it working. I hope that makes sense.

[11yossi11]

one question to you..

you know in 100% there is no god? (and vice versa )

think about it, no body know it 100%

you can't to revoke it.

be blessed

yossi.

[Xoltaric]

Yossi, that the existence of god (any of them) cannot be disproven is not a virtue of belief. I do not claim to know for a fact there is no god, only that it is very improbable, and there are far more probable explanations for what we use god to explain.

[brs9008]

don't worry... I'm praying for you. "The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective." -James 5:16

[SwyshaSuyt314]

the bible does not specify the age of the earth.

[bornagain001]

Have you looked at yourself in the mirror lately. YOU are proof that God exists. You see all the houses in your neighborhood. How do you know there was a "builder" and the houses didn't create themselves? The house itself is "proof" that there was a builder even though you have never seen him. That TRUTH works for everything including YOU!

[Xoltaric]

Eh? That I exist is evidence that my parents made nookie, nothing more. That is something that can be tested and in fact I have been told the circumstances of my conception by the two people who were there. That is good enough proof for me that my parents made nookie.

[bornagain001]

And God gives you "free will" to believe what you want. You are not his puppet. Nobody is going to cram Jesus down your throat. Nobody is going to make you go to church Sunday. "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes on him should not perish but have everlasting life." John 3:16

[Xoltaric]

... or, much more likely, there is no God and no reason for us not to have "free will." You said you had proof, are you going to show us or just quote the bible at us some more? As it stands now, you're not giving your son or yourself enough credit.

[bornagain001]

That's a good theory but it's really one of those transformations you have to witness yourself. God is real. God does work miracles. Every conversion is in itself a miracle since it's a turning from an old life.

[Xoltaric]

No matter what you think, or say, or believe, "God did it" is one of the least probable of all the possibilities. It's about on par with aliens doing it because your son is to be their emissary on earth. You can believe whatever you want, but don't call it probable.

[crystalstar17]

good video. I'm not an atheist, but you make good points

[Xoltaric]

Thanks crystalstar17.. that's the nice thing about my approach, surely theists would want to learn more about their religions too?

[bornagain001]

Sure..it's possible but not probable. If you had seen the before and after, you would not have recognized the change. Before,I actually feared him when I went to bed.

[Xoltaric]

That an infinite, omnipotent, and omniscient being exists as described in your bible and actually cares for your son is more probable than him - on some level - deciding he's had enough?

[hdfhjasdofibafa]

Im not trying to proove a point to win an arguement. If God exsists, he must have made himself known right? Experience is never at the mercy of

an arguement, one has to humble himself and understand that he needs God. If you want proof start here on your spiritual journey and move out of an "Egyptian state of mind" like the Israelites did to find the ONE TRUE GOD, and learn the biblical progression. How much heat does it take to melt granite? wikipedia jabal al lawz.

[Xoltaric]

Dear hdfhjasdofibafa,

What a mouthful your name is. One can be even MORE humble and stop thinking that God made them or loves them or cares at all.

[KempsGrl]

don't take the name of the celestial tea-pot in vain! damn you!

[S0n0fMan]

One thing God has spoken, two things have I heard: that you, O God, are strong, and that you, O Lord, are loving. Surely you will reward each person  according to what he has done.

[Xoltaric]

Why do I suddenly want to start a campaign to "take back" the phrase, "Son of Man" for the atheist cause?

[jesterspace]

That, my friend.. sounds like a BRILLIANT idea!

[S0n0fMan]

Lowborn men are but a breath, the highborn are but a lie; if weighed on a balance, they are nothing; together they are only a breath. Do not trust in extortion or take pride in stolen goods; though your riches increase, do not set your heart on them.

[S0n0fMan]

Find rest, O my soul, in God alone; my hope comes from him.

He alone is my rock and my salvation;

 he is my fortress, I will not be shaken.

My salvation and my honor depend on God [a] ; he is my mighty rock, my refuge. Trust in him at all times, O people; pour out your hearts to him, for God is our refuge. Selah

[S0n0fMan]

My soul finds rest in God alone; my salvation comes from him. He alone is my rock and my salvation; he is my fortress, I will never be shaken. How long will you assault a man? Would all of you throw him down— this leaning wall, this tottering fence?They fully intend to topple him from his lofty place; they take delight in lies. With their mouths they bless, but in their hearts they curse. Selah

[bornagain001]

Deal

[bornagain001]

You're too late. Already read "The God Delusion"

[Xoltaric]

And the other one? Do we have a deal or not?

[bornagain001]

Go rent these two movies. An oldie but a goody."Sergeant York" and fairly new.."End of the Spear". Great true stories how God (who is real)worked in real peoples lives.

[Xoltaric]

I'll watch both of those if you read "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins and "Ishmael" by Daniel Quinn. Deal?

[bornagain001]

The lesson may be dogmatism and vanity but they were the religious leaders of the day. They knew all the rules but did not know God. I had a "conversion". Before I had no time for God, no time for church, no time for prayer. I was "dead" to God. At 55, I will never attend a seminary or take a University class in theology but I have been shown much by just reading the Bible with an open heart.

[Xoltaric]

So were you really an intellectual atheist or did you just "not have time for God?" It sounds like you just didn't care which is a stark contrast to my experience as an atheist, and that of many others. So I'm the one who has seen both sides while you have not.

[bornagain001]

There are literally 1000's of priest's AND preachers who speak from their pulpits every Sunday who "know not Christ". Matthew 7:22 The pharisees were the "religious leaders" at the time of Christ. They are the ones who wanted Christ dead. Being religious and having a personal relationship with Jesus is too different things.

[Xoltaric]

Actually the lesson of the Pharisees (proper noun btw) is about dogmatism and vanity, not priests. You made the claim that you've seen it from both sides while I have not. From your description, my religious experience at least matches yours and you haven't brought up your atheist experience at all so it seems like I'm the one who has seen both sides while you have not.

[bornagain001]

I too, thought my life was fulfilling until the age of 55 when I asked Christ into my life. NOW, I know what real fulfillment is. I've seen it from both sides which you haven't.

[Xoltaric]

Now you're back to being condescending. We've been through how and why you found Christ (see previous comments) and the hole in your world view that needed to be filled. You went through a very traumatic experience and your faith helped you and your son through it.

[Xoltaric]

In terms of my experience, you're dead wrong. I was very nearly a priest (and was visited by Jesus, remember?) so I would put my experience with Christianity at least on par with yours. Now, I can't really say what kind of atheist you were but I actively study religion, evolution, history, people, etc.

[bornagain001]

One can not empower a true Christian to leave his faith because it's a "personal relationship" with Jesus. Just look at the 1000's of Christians who were thrown to the lions by the Romans for not denying their faith. Either what they had was real or they were all insane.

[Xoltaric]

You're back eh? Glad to see it. Faith can be real even though the deity is not. Just look at the suicide bombers in the past few decades. Either what they had was real or they were all insane. Faith can be just as powerful in any religion, and they can't all be right, right?

[Xoltaric]

Your analogy is also false because throwing Christians to the lions was not empowering. It was threatening. It was the stick and I am advocating the carrot. I'm not talking about a bribe, I'm talking about offering the opportunity to have a more fulfilling life by seeing it as it is without resorting to mythology.

[oxdanexo]

I don't know why, but I was expecting or you to end up on the toliet at least one time.

Awesome movie.

How would you empwer christians to leave their faith? Handgrenades?

[Xoltaric]

LOL.. that would have been funny. Thanks for the kind words.

I don't want to *force* anyone to leave their faith as that's the wrong approach. I just want people to realize it's ok to be an atheist and see the beauty of atheism.

[Xoltaric]

My age is in my profile if you're really curious.

And yes, that was why he went into wrestling, so they could promote the movie.

[Xoltaric]

Hahaha! Good eye my friend, I wondered if anyone would pick up on that!

[tampakram]

i can't believe this is your first video. good job! smart, funny, overall great!

[Xoltaric]

Thanks!

[bornagain001]

OK ...God loves witches, Jews and blacks too.

He wants for no one to go to hell that's why he sent his son to die as a sacrifice for everyone, not just me and a few more. But of course, if you don't believe in God, my message has no meaning. Romans 2:5-8

[Xoltaric]

Well your message was that you've seen a miracle first hand and that no atheist could possibly explain (it, and the) thousands of people who have been helped. I've been nice and offered 3 explanations more probable than god existing and you lump me together with murders and Bin Laden.

[Xoltaric]

Now I just don't get it as far as you're concerned, why not just call me delusional? I'm open-minded and I'm listening. Prove to me you're not just as bad as cleansedbyfire2.

[bornagain001]

There are a lot of twists and turns to the story. Drugs, rebellion, anger, deceit, lies. I could not fix the problem. In a "last ditch" effort, I turned to God and asked for help. Not to sound "delusional" to your other guests, I'll stop here by saying only God could have fixed this problem that was way out of control.

I wish I could talk to you personally. He is real and he loves all at atheists, homosexuals, murderers and Bin Laden but his gift of eternal life requires something on your part.

[Xoltaric]

Send me a private message if you'd like to explain in more detail. I don't mean to downplay the the fact that the horrible things that happened to your family ended up with a happy ending. That is really great! I just don't see the umistakable hand of god. Faith and hope are powerful healing agents on their own, a little like the placebo effect.

[Xoltaric]

When it comes to young people, often active intervention has a way of backfiring and what is needed is stepping back and simply showing your love. Any of these things are far more probable than god existing.

[Xoltaric]

Also, I love how you lumped atheists and homosexuals along with murderers and Bin Laden. Isn't this 2007? Why not mention witches, Jews and blacks too?

[bornagain001]

You're right Xoltaric. Name calling does not work. The miracle was my son who was completely consumed with drugs, particularly Oxycontin. We were told he would soon overdose or be incarcerated for a long time. I can't go into details because of the 500 word limit but

he is now clean and my life was changed because of his.

[Xoltaric]

Thanks for sharing bornagain001. That is a touching story. I'm very glad your son is clean and out of trouble -- whatever it took to get him clean. I must admit, though, I am a little confused. You described a happy, fortunate, and perhaps improbable event -- that part I see. What I don't see is the unmistakable hand of god.

[jesterspace]

Congratulations to your son. Is is possible that his recovery was due to his OWN will and strength of character? Yes, friends and family might have helped, but ultimately it was probably HIS decision.

[bornagain001]

NO atheist can explain the 1000's of changed lives. Personally, I had nothing to do with God until the age of 55 when I witnessed a miracle first hand. It changed my life forever.

[cleansedbyfire2]

No you didn't, you're simply delusional

[Xoltaric]

Come now cleansedbyfire2, name calling doesn't do anyone any good. Lets see what this miracle was. If you completely dismiss his point of view, why shouldn't he just completely dismiss yours? You think he just doesn't "get it" well I'm sure he thinks the same thing about you and I. So lets try and understand what he sees, maybe he will show us the same respect by trying to understand our interpretation?

[Xoltaric]

Sure we can, and there have been billions of lives changed. What was this miracle? I was visited by Jesus himself, yet I can explain it. Early Christianity spread amungst the oppressed and the persecuted. The Christian (or any other religion) mythos is powerful and it's growth, popularity and continued existance speaks volumes about it's stickiness and it's Darwinian survival potential. Just because thousands or billions want to believe, that doesn't make it real.

[djtequilaslammer]

Good video, you make some very good points. A good study of the root causes for religion - how it has adapted to fill a niche, and how that niche has adapted to accomodate it - is a good plan.

At the moment though, the battle seems to be one of PR. Theists have well over 2000 years of public speaking experience, and relish an opportunity to make a rationalist look stupid. What we see here is stage one kick back. Stage two, the atheists get organised.

[Xoltaric]

Thanks for the kind words djtequilaslammer. Good PR is exactly what I'm advocating. I just find that most atheists are too antagonistic and arrogant with their (usually new-found) intellectual superiority. There's an old saying... "converts are the most enthusiastic." The anger towards theism is quite understandable.. you might say it's one of the stages of becoming atheist. But beyond that stage is where we're really going to make some noise.

[AmaLeniter24]

I love this video. I think I'll give it 5 stars. It made me laugh and think differently about atheism. I totally understand the deal with not wanting to believe in a God that only lets people into heaven on the technicality of believing in Him, but I think the concept is way more delicate and complecated than that and it's pretty much been butchered and given to the dogs and few care to pick up the pieces.

[Xoltaric]

Thanks for the comment! I think it only gets more complicated if you believe in god. Assume there isn't one and religious dogma suddenly looks quite absurd. However, saying that so bluntly just puts theists on the defensive. You can catch more flies with honey!

[AmaLeniter24]

I don't know about honey, but I think it makes sense to say that we all have the ability to become something, and judging from the state of the world we have leaned in the wrong direction. If the God of the Universe was completely holy and just, that would cause a great gulf between God and people and only God could have the power to span, so instead of us reaching for Him, He would have to reach for us.

[Xoltaric]

Ama, I can do one better than your "we have the ability to become something." We already are something, something quite wonderful and special. We're alive and we're here. In terms of the state of the world, I offer you another Voltaire quote, "If God didn't exist, one would have to be invented."

[AmaLeniter24]

The gospel probably sounds great to people who hate their present state, are very aware the destructive afffects of how we choose to live, and are ready for anything. Others who are satisfied with themselves are most likely appalled at the notion that they will never be good enough to get into heaven. They probably don't see the draw is that God loved us so much that he practically bends over backwards to make the relationship work.

[Xoltaric]

Ama: Can a person be truly satisfied with life while praying for heaven?

If this conversation were to continue, I suspect we'd run into serious problems with the character limit. Feel free to send me a private message instead.

[dabug091]

haha, great video, you and ur cat are cool

[Xoltaric]

Thanks! And your hair is quite staticky!

[nododon]

If the believers reading this want to hear something absolutely hysterical, search on youtube for "The Dawkins Delusion". And if you atheists actually have a sense of humor it is pretty comical about your so-called rational thinking. You might find it entertaining at least.

[Xoltaric]

I did as you suggested. Was it the Dr Terry Tommyrot thing here on YouTube? If so, it was pretty funny. Some parts were bang on! Thanks for suggesting it. You realize, though, that it's one thing to satirize Dawkin's arguements, but another thing entirely to accept this kind of hubris as a win for the theist side.

[sugarsweet1191]

THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!!

i cant believe you. you pretty much suck

[Xoltaric]

What a hilarious comment. Would you care to explain it? You know, if you found my video shocking, that's not a bad thing. Realizing there are other world-views out there is an important first step in self-realization. If you have any questions, I'd be more than happy to try and answer them for you. Peace.

[Xoltaric]

Anger (and its resulting name calling) is definitely one of the steps in reverting to atheism. Not only did our parents, teachers and preachers lie to us (though hopefully not intentionally) but we're left in a society which makes group decisions based on (usually only one) religious faith. Hostility towards equal marriage, for example, is entirely based on faith. It's not surprising many atheists are bitter. But I believe in putting our best foot forwards -- that's reason, not bitterness.

[BeatBuddy]

You mocked my God, the Flying Spaghetti Monster! I hope you rot in Hell!

[kevynjacobs]

Love it. Sometimes it's so hard to see past the anger many of us atheists have towards the systems of belief we were raised/indoctrinated in. Thank you for a reasoned approach.

I'd call yours a truly Canadian response. ;-)

[Xoltaric]

19 ratings so far and nearly 300 views.  YouTube is fun! :)

Some people have given the video a low rating, I'd be curious to know why! Please leave me a comment!

[Xoltaric]

Thanks for the kind words!

As far as I know she is a domestic short hair, but she was a stray kitten we brought in so I don't know much about her anscestry. You could be right. My neighbour (who is a bit loopy) seems to think there is some Siamese in her (the cat, not the neighbour) because of her meow.

[BeatBuddy]

Xoltaric, you speak wisdom. The only snag is that some of us actually enjoy name calling. We don't care if it's a sign of maturity or not. Perhaps it comes from watching too much Jerry Springer and professional wrestling.

[stertim]

8...Is that a bengal? Looks just like mine.

You have quite a grasp of the question at hand, and of course I agree with everything(well, almost) you said.

I think the "challenge" was a bit more tongue-in-cheek, than you allow....but good job on your vid. Do another!

[lilgreendude]

Ha! now it's 7 people giving you 5 stars.

Great job.

[Xoltaric]

Thanks for the kind words imnotsureyet!

WOW! Six people have given my video five stars. I know I haven't told six people about it so some of those must have come from the YouTube Community.

Thank you!

Please leave me comments or any feedback you might have!

[imnotsureyet]

1) First comment. Yay! 2) You're cute. 3) Do I detect a Canadian accent? 4) Science makes sense. 5) Religion stems from mythology. 6) Mythology comes from great imagination and a need...for something more than what we are. 5) I am content not knowing where I come from. 6) I take comfort in knowing that there doesn't have to be a definative reason, wheather it be some devine god, aliens or evolution. 7) I relish in the wonder and theory. 8) And...did I mention how cute you are?

[kevynjacobs]

I agree. He is very cute ;-)