Yeah, is is not as easy at it seems & there is a lot to agree on beforehand. BE didn't work for me either ( not because I didn't like the game, but simply because it is difficult to steer). I had really good games of BW, thought. I mean REALLY GOOD ones ! All in all, those games have a lot to offer if your group is homogenous (i.e. same level of education & intrerests). Otherwise it is difficult.
Also, this must have been said by many people already, if you wonder how your game should look or feel like, go read A Song Of Fire And Ice serie - or watch A Game Of Thrones. This is Burning Wheel in action (...or an ideal representation of it).
It is an excellent but difficult game. Not because you play a story that has been foretold - it is actually quite the opposite - but because of the scene management mechanic (witch is not there in Burning Wheel). It is not for everyone, I agree, but to me the two games (BW & BE) are he best there is. These games push rpg elsewhere by focussing on the characters & their struggles - goals vs life itself - and cutting down the crap. I would recommend BW to start with.
@rintintin49 Despite really enjoying reading BW, I was never able to make it work in play. However, I think BW is simply required reading for any GM, regardless of whether you use it play or not. BE wasn't for me either. I really, really hated it, to be honest. It's the first time I ever quit a gaming group was due to BE, and I really wanted to like it. The adversarial nature of the game (GM vs. Players) just wasn't my bag. YMMV, of course. It's really quite brilliant, but not my cup of tea.
@thadrine I agree. I enjoy this game and its predecessor Burning Wheel. I heard on their site that BW will be reorganized like BE in it's next printing. The way life paths were done in BW was I think it's only downside. I really enjoy the massive scale and metagame conflicts that BE uses along with roleplaying. Takes a few sessions to get use to but it's fun.
This is a very good, multi level rpg, with a very cutting edge and theoretical understanding of roleplaying. Once you get through the mechanics, and in to roleplay its actually a very smooth game.
The replay value is quite high, and the game does ecourage and reward some metagame thinking. Ultimately however, the strength of this game is its scale. This game is about politcs and planetary, or interplanetary issues. If all you want to do is kill stuff and gain levels its not for you.
The core book looks pretty, but so much of the terminology is ill-defined and the conflict system (either physical or social) is so bad, that I simply cannot get into it
Kurt completely missed the fact that you do not determine the outcome in advance. There's an explicit mechanism that decides the outcome of each phase of the worm invasion. I thought it was pretty clear on this.
I'm on thadrine's side, and wouldn't like to play in a game with c64king's style of play. But I don't get the downvotes, here. That's what they like, and there's nothing wrong with that... it's good to know what you want, and state it before you get into a game. Figuring out what you want in a game is a good thing!
I have been curious about both this and Burning Wheel and I like that you explain what is both the good and the bad. I have been RPG'ing since the '90s and my group doesn't take to really radical changes in gameplay too well. Keep up the reviews and I think everyone understands that it is just one man's opinion and to correlate it with your other posts for comparison, Thanks.
I really don't understand the confusion about Burning Empires. It's not written in Sanskrit or anything. The game text is quite clear, and there is a ton of tech support on the website. I don't know how someone could "get" D&D and not "get" something like BE.
I don't mind the review, I actually kind of appreciate that level of honesty. My criticism of the episode is more technical, I was jolted by the transition from the intro to the main body of footage. That felt too fast and a bit sloppy. Besides that, another good one.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
I hate this one. Its like a gather a bunch of players who only wants to play and told them. Ok now we got to work about the planet. And this isn`t the most worse. Next what is happening? - One big improvisation. I like to spend a lot of time before actually running the system and here i don`t know what kind of play it will be so i can`t. And at first my players wants a planet with bitches , a lot stupid easy bitches - no comment.
There can be no good unless there is evil. Finally, a semi-negative....*cough* barely negative review. BRAVO!!!! Yes, I loved your review, and for its rarity I'll rate it the highest. Sounds like an innocative sytem, that marginalized the GM and narrative in favor of maxized set dressing.
I don't think Kurt has to give "negative" reviews in the sense of "you must NOT buy this book!" Gaming is subjective, largely because players shape the experience. He does a good job giving an overview of a game and whether the system it uses achieves what the authors wanted it to achieve in the context they were using it. It's definitely more open-minded than what some other reviewers use, but I find it more helpful because he is not bringing is own preferences into play.
Kurt, I apologize, I should have made myself more clear. I had made the remark about seriousness in jest to you're disheartenment with the game. I meant nothing of ill. I always appreciate you're reviews.
FYI: World-building comes first, before you generate PCs. You create the world, determine in what phase to start, what the basic situation is, and then come up with who the important characters are. *Then* you create those important characters. You *don't* pre-determine what's going to happen. The GM will then make up a relationship map for the important characters in play, and use that to guide his decisions for the NPCs. Then you start playing and see what happens. Zero-prep beyond that point.
Some of the images shown look like they come from WarHammer 40,000. I'm not trying to be be rude, but some of the characters from this game look like Space Marines to me.
I think I know where you're coming from. I tried to read the rules for Burning Wheel once after hearing people rave about it. While I found the ideas unique and inspired, I felt overwhelmed and confused. Like you said, I wasn't sure exactly how to run the game, or even fully how to run character creation. It's a very unique game design, but it may be too "outside the box" for a lot of players used to more traditional RPGs. I think SotC/FATE handles a "player-driven narrative" style game better.
Over at RPGnet you alluded that this would be a negative review. Let me disagree, your review isn't negative at all. You are upfront about your and your group's preferences and actually treat the game very fairly! Keep up the good work!
Yeah, is is not as easy at it seems & there is a lot to agree on beforehand. BE didn't work for me either ( not because I didn't like the game, but simply because it is difficult to steer). I had really good games of BW, thought. I mean REALLY GOOD ones ! All in all, those games have a lot to offer if your group is homogenous (i.e. same level of education & intrerests). Otherwise it is difficult.
rintintin49 3 months ago
Also, this must have been said by many people already, if you wonder how your game should look or feel like, go read A Song Of Fire And Ice serie - or watch A Game Of Thrones. This is Burning Wheel in action (...or an ideal representation of it).
rintintin49 7 months ago
It is an excellent but difficult game. Not because you play a story that has been foretold - it is actually quite the opposite - but because of the scene management mechanic (witch is not there in Burning Wheel). It is not for everyone, I agree, but to me the two games (BW & BE) are he best there is. These games push rpg elsewhere by focussing on the characters & their struggles - goals vs life itself - and cutting down the crap. I would recommend BW to start with.
rintintin49 7 months ago
@rintintin49 Despite really enjoying reading BW, I was never able to make it work in play. However, I think BW is simply required reading for any GM, regardless of whether you use it play or not. BE wasn't for me either. I really, really hated it, to be honest. It's the first time I ever quit a gaming group was due to BE, and I really wanted to like it. The adversarial nature of the game (GM vs. Players) just wasn't my bag. YMMV, of course. It's really quite brilliant, but not my cup of tea.
Kunstdesfechtens 3 months ago
Having had a chance to play this game I comfortable say it is the best game I have ever played!
But yes, it is very different.
thadrine 10 months ago
@thadrine I agree. I enjoy this game and its predecessor Burning Wheel. I heard on their site that BW will be reorganized like BE in it's next printing. The way life paths were done in BW was I think it's only downside. I really enjoy the massive scale and metagame conflicts that BE uses along with roleplaying. Takes a few sessions to get use to but it's fun.
scullkrusher 9 months ago
This is a very good, multi level rpg, with a very cutting edge and theoretical understanding of roleplaying. Once you get through the mechanics, and in to roleplay its actually a very smooth game.
The replay value is quite high, and the game does ecourage and reward some metagame thinking. Ultimately however, the strength of this game is its scale. This game is about politcs and planetary, or interplanetary issues. If all you want to do is kill stuff and gain levels its not for you.
Jbickley00 2 years ago
The core book looks pretty, but so much of the terminology is ill-defined and the conflict system (either physical or social) is so bad, that I simply cannot get into it
MhicWombat 2 years ago
Kurt completely missed the fact that you do not determine the outcome in advance. There's an explicit mechanism that decides the outcome of each phase of the worm invasion. I thought it was pretty clear on this.
alanb98105 3 years ago 3
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I think Evil Hat is doing a more limited version of this in the City Building of Dresden Files.
TacticusPrime 3 years ago
Gee, I guess he didn't get it. Hah!
StingerSix 3 years ago
As a player I like the GM to take authority. I wanna play as my character but like a good GM to hold me to his storyline
c64king 3 years ago
That sounds like the opposite of fun for me, both as a player and as a GM.
thadrine 2 years ago
I'm on thadrine's side, and wouldn't like to play in a game with c64king's style of play. But I don't get the downvotes, here. That's what they like, and there's nothing wrong with that... it's good to know what you want, and state it before you get into a game. Figuring out what you want in a game is a good thing!
elysium1976 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
It sounds like I wouldn't like this game for the same reasons I didn't like "Capes" or "Universalis."
lancerCNCS1 3 years ago
Those are all VERY narrative games. I know my gaming group would probably revolt over that too... I wish I could find a group to try this out with.
jfridy 3 years ago
I have been curious about both this and Burning Wheel and I like that you explain what is both the good and the bad. I have been RPG'ing since the '90s and my group doesn't take to really radical changes in gameplay too well. Keep up the reviews and I think everyone understands that it is just one man's opinion and to correlate it with your other posts for comparison, Thanks.
verticaljub 3 years ago 9
Another Good Review, despite your distaste for the setting I think I'm going to check it out just to see how it works. Keep these reviews coming!
MrEternalLife 4 years ago
looks like Warhammer 40k
Jonazzz 4 years ago
I made that point and I got 2 negative marks. Whats with that? I did not even say anything bad about the game.
WolfSnake77 4 years ago
Don't fret dude. People are becoming less and less respectful.
OXAXCO 4 years ago
Ignore the grumbling fanboys, Kurt. Thanks again for doing these. - John
Seanchai0 4 years ago
I really don't understand the confusion about Burning Empires. It's not written in Sanskrit or anything. The game text is quite clear, and there is a ton of tech support on the website. I don't know how someone could "get" D&D and not "get" something like BE.
DanielJDavis 4 years ago
I don't mind the review, I actually kind of appreciate that level of honesty. My criticism of the episode is more technical, I was jolted by the transition from the intro to the main body of footage. That felt too fast and a bit sloppy. Besides that, another good one.
Jeffrywith1e 4 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I hate this one. Its like a gather a bunch of players who only wants to play and told them. Ok now we got to work about the planet. And this isn`t the most worse. Next what is happening? - One big improvisation. I like to spend a lot of time before actually running the system and here i don`t know what kind of play it will be so i can`t. And at first my players wants a planet with bitches , a lot stupid easy bitches - no comment.
soul31 4 years ago
Well, I glanced through this book a few times and I kinda share your idea Kurt.
I'm not too excited about 'Narrative Gaming',.. and this game has too much 'Narrative' quirks to make it work for me. I'll pass on this one.
It's not a bad game, but it's not my kinda game.
X0oMALKAVo0X 4 years ago
There can be no good unless there is evil. Finally, a semi-negative....*cough* barely negative review. BRAVO!!!! Yes, I loved your review, and for its rarity I'll rate it the highest. Sounds like an innocative sytem, that marginalized the GM and narrative in favor of maxized set dressing.
acm4bass 4 years ago
I don't think Kurt has to give "negative" reviews in the sense of "you must NOT buy this book!" Gaming is subjective, largely because players shape the experience. He does a good job giving an overview of a game and whether the system it uses achieves what the authors wanted it to achieve in the context they were using it. It's definitely more open-minded than what some other reviewers use, but I find it more helpful because he is not bringing is own preferences into play.
walt776 4 years ago 3
Thank you for the review ! Seriously, haha.
OXAXCO 4 years ago
Er. Ok. You're welcome. Seriosuly
knwiegel 4 years ago
Kurt, I apologize, I should have made myself more clear. I had made the remark about seriousness in jest to you're disheartenment with the game. I meant nothing of ill. I always appreciate you're reviews.
OXAXCO 4 years ago
FYI: World-building comes first, before you generate PCs. You create the world, determine in what phase to start, what the basic situation is, and then come up with who the important characters are. *Then* you create those important characters. You *don't* pre-determine what's going to happen. The GM will then make up a relationship map for the important characters in play, and use that to guide his decisions for the NPCs. Then you start playing and see what happens. Zero-prep beyond that point.
buzzm0 4 years ago 7
you look confused.
northerain 4 years ago
I was/am. Its a puzzlement to me.
knwiegel 4 years ago
I dropped a link to this to the roleplayers group over on LiveJournal. Hope you don't mind. I am consistently pleased to hear your reviews.
KitFoxtrot 4 years ago
Some of the images shown look like they come from WarHammer 40,000. I'm not trying to be be rude, but some of the characters from this game look like Space Marines to me.
WolfSnake77 4 years ago
The comics the game is based on from 1994, roughly contemporary to 40k's launch. Not that GW invented soldiers in power armor by any stretch.
stormtube 4 years ago 4
I think I know where you're coming from. I tried to read the rules for Burning Wheel once after hearing people rave about it. While I found the ideas unique and inspired, I felt overwhelmed and confused. Like you said, I wasn't sure exactly how to run the game, or even fully how to run character creation. It's a very unique game design, but it may be too "outside the box" for a lot of players used to more traditional RPGs. I think SotC/FATE handles a "player-driven narrative" style game better.
Webhead123 4 years ago
Over at RPGnet you alluded that this would be a negative review. Let me disagree, your review isn't negative at all. You are upfront about your and your group's preferences and actually treat the game very fairly! Keep up the good work!
menestratos 4 years ago