RANT: Conservative Christian Critics of Islam

[akylae101]

To be honest, the "taqiya" is believable because Muslim apologists are quick to use misinformation. When even an imam of a famous mosque - a man knowledgeable of Islam - starts a *documentary* interview with something as obviously wrong as "Islam means peace", that makes "taqiya" more credible than anything a right-winger can spout.

[Wolfau5]

1. Islam is spreading to the west (Europe, America, Australia).

2. Islam, as its practiced today by many sects is incompatible with western values on many issues, particularly with regards to free speech and the status of women.

3. Many sects are aggressiously expansionistic and VERY hostile to criticism.

Given this, I find it hard to dismiss out of hand a "xenophobic" stance on these issues.

[leffehoegaarden]

I'm looking through the list to find a LauraDurkay comment to thumb up!

[faro0485]

Interesting... one side is conservative christian calling people to conservative Christianity... and the other side is you. Left wing secularist calling people to left wing secularism.

How interesting. It's almost like two sides of the same coin called "let's prove islam wrong".

[Klingschor]

@faro0485

Feel free at any time to contact me on Skype (Klingschor) or ring in to TheJinnAndTonicShow to validate and substantiate your vacuous claims.

[faro0485]

@Klingschor Vacuous claims? Are you saying it's not true? Well the only alternative is that you're trying to thump your ego on others, climbing the stairs on their beliefs.

[MissGueraLove]

Really glad I subbed. ^_^ Awesome video, trolls will be trolls, lol.

[creationistcat]

What an idiot, everyone knows dat Allah isn't satan, Charles Darwin is satan!!!

[curlew0609]

If you don't want to get spammed, block her. It's OK to block a pest. It's beneficial to block a pest. It unclutters the comment section for the rest of us, and encourages the pest to "go get a life."

[Haradin32]

give her ass a good pounding!

[gir908922]

Excellent video, Klingschor!!

[callmeal84]

You are incomplete in your analysis, David Wood is also an asshole.

[mrsanity]

Answering-muslims is just fighting one brand of shite fighting against another flavour of crap

The taquiyyah conspiracy comes from the fact that dawah is invariably full of deliberate misrepresentations and that islamic leaders lie through their teeth constantly... not unlike western politicians.. :p

[finderfinder100]

Education over Propaganda any day. Its better understand you opponent's point of view and support your own side with facts. I know very little about Islam so at this point i can't say what i would find good or bad about the religion.

[CorrosionX3]

@finderfinder100 go to thereligionofpeace(dot)com of course it's very anti-islam but that's the other side. you can let them try to excuse their behaviors and beliefs after you have been exposed to them for real.

[9CrystalDragon2]

loved watching this video, obviously I don't want your style to change but this was a fun video to watch I guess I just love rants.

[TheLivingDinosaur]

I don't blame you not bothering to spend time writing a script for something like this. Writing is time consuming and can be frustrating and someone like this doesn't deserve having the energy expending on them. You're doing a great job on the unscripted stuff, btw, so don't worry about it.

[NoNamesLeft0102]

I don't know much about taqiyya, I'll admit that right off the bat, but from what I do know about it, it becomes difficult to evaluate the basis for some of the claims made by the Islamic apologists. Have they interpreted taqiyya to be applicable when spreading Islam, in which case they are being intentionally dishonest, or is it a matter of what they really think, in which case their opinions are likely just the products of misinformation, simple misunderstanding, or cognitive bias.

[TheRationalizer]

@NoNamesLeft0102

Muslims certainly do lie to spread their religion, but it is not Taqiyya

[NoNamesLeft0102]

@TheRationalizer And as somebody who knows a bit more of the details about the words (origin, application, use), you'd understand that. Meanwhile, people like me or like those criticized in the video, without that knowledge, upon seeing instances of deception, have difficulty telling if it is taqiyya or not. While some of us hesitate to state anything regarding their basis pending more knowledge, people such as those criticized might not, and it would seem, don't, have that inclination -cont-

[TheRationalizer]

@NoNamesLeft0102

Taqiyya is the ability to deny your faith in order to save your life as long as you don't really mean what you say, as opposed to early Christians who were fed to lions because they feared if they denied Jesus then Jesus would deny them on judgement day and they would go to hell.

Anything other than that is a well known cultural phenomenon known as "bull shit" :-)

[NoNamesLeft0102]

@TheRationalizer bit more than what I knew about it.

lol Having lived on a farm, there is a general response to bullshit. "My cow died, so I don't need your bull."

[LauraDurkay]

@TheRationalizer It is also allowed to lie in the Sunni sect. You can lie in cases of war to enemies, friends and family in conflicts. Since many Muslims consider kufirs enemies and in war with them some might believe they can lie to them and that is in the Sunni sect.

I will post the hadith which states that in my next post. 

[LauraDurkay]

@TheRationalizer Al-Muslim, Muslim :: Book 32 : Hadith 6303

"....Ibn Shihab said he did not hear that exemption was granted in anything what the people speak as lie but in three cases: in battle, for bringing reconciliation amongst persons and the narration of the words of the husband to his wife, and the narration of the words of a wife to her husband."

Some in the Sunni sect consider non-Muslim controlled lands as Lands of War.

[AmetReloads]

@TheRationalizer Rationalizer indeed..

So by the Socratic method, let me pose these questions to you:

A) Is taqiyya IN WORD in sunni literature?

B) If it wasn’t, and it was named something else,or it was a colloquial term would it make any substantial difference to where deception is permitted for Sunnis?

C) What's the limitations of LYING for Islam? if we start listing the 'permissible lies' by Islam according to Islamic literature, how BIG will that LIST be?(By Quran, Hadiths & Sunnah)

...

[AmetReloads]

@AmetReloads ...

D) Is there is a widespread PRACTICE of double talking from Muslim clergy in the west?

E) Is it SANCTIONED by the religion?

F) Does the Mi-6 has British mosques under SURVEILLANCE?

G) How many mosques PREVIOUSLY considered moderate due to their public FACADE,that were receiving government money to combat radicalism, were later revealed to be BREEDING grounds for extremism?

H) What PROPORTION of the British mosques are consider to be extremely radical by Mi-6?

...

[AmetReloads]

@AmetReloads ...

I) How many SCANDALS about double-speaking-mosques and secret recordings from with in the mosques walls, have been reported in the British PRESS?

J) If the religions sanctions it , if the practice reaffirms it, if the authorities are alarmed by it, is it a "conspiracy theory" or a reality?

K) If it is really a conspiracy theory, should we let the Mi-6 on to the secret?

[faro0485]

@AmetReloads Taqiyya is from the same root of taqwa. To claim "taqiyya" means lying, is like saying "to go" means "an Achilles tendon".

[superhamzah85]

@TheRationalizer

Taqiyyah, ironically, is one of Islam's better qualities. "God is it ok if I lie to save my life?" God: "Duh, retard."

What's remarkable is that this question even needs to be asked by the religious.

[NoNamesLeft0102]

@NoNamesLeft0102 -cont- leading to the accusation of using it in every instance of lying used to promote their religion, regardless of if it is the basis for the observed behavior. Actually, since you'd probably be more likely to know, do you or any of the others who'll be on the Jinn and Tonic show know how many words there are in regards to lying, and possibly, in what context they'd be applicable? It would probably be a good reference for us laymen on the subject.

[ProgressiveAudio]

@TheRationalizer Yeah but these people don't get it that every religion lies while proselytizing.

[CorrosionX3]

Allah *IS* Satan, the Greatest Deceiver, the Most Proud one... You don't know what you're talking about.

[Joerexia]

@CorrosionX3 For fuck's sake.

"Allah" is the same god Christians worship. "Allah" just means "God." There's no qualitative difference here. Your god and their god are equally cruel and arbitrary, but since they're brown they're actually worshiping Satan?

[CorrosionX3]

@Joerexia Just because someone calls en entity God doesn't mean it's the same God. Lots of people must have called Zeus "God" and it's not the same God.

They are worshipping Satan because Allah is "The Greatest Deceiver" and "The Most Proud One" which are the names of Satan in the Bible.

If you think they are the same you're just ignorant.

[AmetReloads]

Are you bigoted against conservatives Klings?

Lets put aside that imaginary dichotomy that criticism of Islamic cultural practices comes from the "far right" and lets ask what are the values of that hated " far right" you have such an allergy against..

Is it misogynism? Is it homophobia? Is it authoritarianism? Is it supremacist in nature attitudes against people of different cultures?

What are those hated "far right" believes that causes you blisters on your skin?

...

[AmetReloads]

@AmetReloads ...(2)..and why aren't the same blisters appear on your skin in relation to Islamist movements ,even the most moderate, that hold those values to the 10th fold..?

Double standards?

Now if 90% of muslim immigrants are extremely homophobic and antisemitic, a majority practices extreme forms of sexism, at least 1/3rd supports terrorism and sharia law ,there is a cultivation of supremist mentality, etc etc,the opposition against such immigration isn't xenophobia, it's COMMON SENSE.

[captaindisguise]

I wonder how long it took LauraDurkaDurka to get that 22 dislikes on your video

[Darkfirebrand]

Amazing how about the only learned, fair critic of islam is thumbed down more than outright bigots....

[captaindisguise]

@Darkfirebrand It is because it is a lot easier to label a group as violent/ inhumane and shut them off RATHER than deal with them and their actual ideologies

[Darkfirebrand]

@captaindisguise Took me a second to translate what you said to my point there x.x

[Holammer]

This calls for a "Klingschor's getting votebotted" campaign.

We haven't had one of those for yonks! Only the ugly & boring DMCA business. :D

[ProgressiveAudio]

Reminds me of the Geert Wilders guy, how his party calls for adding Christianity to the Dutch Constitution.

[unitasetmagus]

Just for the record. I'm ultra leftist and anti-religious secularist. I have witnessed "muslim" missionaries lie their arse off to get converts. It might not be correct islamic behaviour or following correct teachings, but that's what they (not all, but many-many) are doing.

Also i would agree with many criticism on islam no matter it's source, be it atheistic, agnostic, christian, judaic, hindu etc. it's not all (well some of it is) propaganda but actually justified arguments.

Peace.

[SissingPyd]

Is there a conspiracy theory about Taqiyyah and if so what is it?

Taqiyyah is a real thing, an islamic/arabic term for deception. There are several meanings and uses of the tactic, one I had explained to me by an officer in the Saudi army back in 1991 during desert storm. The use of misinformation to deceive an enemy.

So, what is the conspiracy theory?

[00ismaeL001]

@SissingPyd Shite's used it for protection but in part she is correct that Muhammad asked his followers to assassinate his critics and when they asked they would have to lie to get near, Muhammad said it was OK to lie.

[Knr911]

LOL how you justify yourself again and again and again and again for calling this stupid website "far-right". Talk about beating a dead horse. I mean come on, there's a screen-cap with their site embedding a Glenn Beck speech! I just would have said "see that? You're embedding Glenn Beck. The guy is a total freaking lunatic even by far-right standards. End of story."

Sigh, great vid as usual Klinschor. :-)

[MsMrNoface]

Unfortunately figures like Glen Beck and Robert Spencer are finding a more and more welcoming audience in the main stream. That's why I would hesitate to call them far right.

[Knr911]

@MsMrNoface Even Bill O'reilly was scared of Glenn Beck, humorously calling him a "right-wing paranoid nutjob" who "advocates crazy conspiracy theories". This was aired on Fox one year before they fired him for being an embarassment. The guy is a total psycho even by Fox News standards. You cannot get more "far-right" than Glenn Beck in the prominent, mainstream figures. If he really gets a more welcoming audience nowadays like you say, that just means the audience is shifting to the far right.

[00ismaeL001]

@Knr911 Many people are looking for research on Islam so people take parts from different sources.

[Knr911]

@00ismaeL001 Of course, when I look on any topic, I like to hear what everybody has to say within the entire political spectrum.

[MsMrNoface]

@Knr911 OK, I'll certainly take your points into consideration. I guess I treat terms like that relatively ,so once it gains traction in the mainstream I have a hard time using far. Robert Spencer, I think he was an adviser to the Reagan White house, does that make him mainstream or extreme?

[Knr911]

@MsMrNoface I don't know enough about Robert Spencer to give you a straight answer about him, so I prefer not to respond this one if you allow me not to.

Now of course there's always a part of subjectivity when giving a label especially poitical, to anyone. My point was specifically about Glenn Beck, it is known that he has been fired from Fox for advocating conspiracy theories with too much far-right bias according to Fox, so I think that giving him this label is a rather objective statement.

[Knr911]

@MsMrNoface But totally agree with your point about having a hard time labeling "far" one who is known in the mainstream media. That's why I said

"You cannot get more "far-right" than Glenn Beck ***in the prominent, mainstream figures***"

[LauraDurkay]

Well thank you all for a great debate...and you too Vincent.

So, Vincent if you deconstruct Islam on the Jinn and Tonic show does that make one a far right xenophobic bigot or just someone who is critical of the teachings of Islam?

I will be listening

;)

[KnightTemplar108]

@LauraDurkay

Just put your text into a video, or hell use the dreaded Microsoft Sam (or whichever version you want) and you will get a responce.

It's not hard.

[Knr911]

It's a cool thing that Coughlan gave you a shout out man.

I have a huge amount of respect for your work because when I arrived on YouTube, living in France and being concerned by this issue, I tried to be a critic of islam, but I just couldn't deal with all the bigots and racists one is forced to attract when touching this subject so I quit very quickly.

AFAIK you're one of the best islam critics out there, giving a rational, historical, intelligent, educated prospective. More power to you.

[PakistaniAtheist]

lol @ the degeneration of her arguments to crying foul on 'ad hominem attacks'

its a convenient tactic to deflect genuine criticism and views over conspiracy theory b.s., right wing reactionary antics, and propagating views similar to "we are under attack from brown people...JESUS SAVE US!"

[LauraDurkay]

@PakistaniAtheist So what is the diference between an ex-Muslim atheist deconstructing Islam using Islamic sources and an ex-Muslim Christian doing the same?

Is one a far right bigot...and the other a person doing comparative religion...plus the owner of Answering Muslims IS an ex-Muslim who is not an xenophobe as which is pointed out in the video.

[PakistaniAtheist]

@LauraDurkay because well informed ex-Muslims atheists do NOT pander or preach b.s. regarding Taqiyya, the views of Birthers and 'Obama is a secret Muslim' among such intellectual heavyweights in the Tea Party, the 'Muslim conspiracy' and 'Muslims should not be trusted because of what so and so text says', which ex-Muslim Christian Jezuz-freaks tend to get themselves into!

[LauraDurkay]

@PakistaniAtheist Did Muhammad tell his followers to lie to get close enough to kill his critics? Of course he did. That is in the hadiths and even in the biographies. Not only once but several times.

[PakistaniAtheist]

@LauraDurkay how is that any different than usage of deception tactics in times of war or conflict?

if Muhammad was really into this stuff he would have had done back in Makkah during the first 10 years of his prophetic claims!

He did it when he became established in Madinah when Muslims were in a state of near constant CONFLICT and WAR

lol the God of the Bible has no problem lying too. He deceived and killed his 'enemies' in such a cruel manner that it makes Islam seem pale

[LauraDurkay]

@PakistaniAtheist Uh I am brown and so is the owner of Answering Muslims. Who is also an ex-Muslim.

[LauraDurkay]

@PakistaniAtheist well...I am more tan...lol So that argument of Answering Muslims being Xenophobic in the video is incorrect.

[LauraDurkay]

...and also I am not voting my comments up or asking anyone to do so. Why would anyone care if people are doing so or not?

Also I did what you did Vincent. My video title names are used to get views....just like your "Muhammad was a Child Molester"...didn't you do the same? Are you are bigot for doing so, or did you do those titles to get views?

[roblesterfilms]

great vid

[Klingschor]

@LauraDurkay

9:23

[Drgamedood]

@Klingschor Do you know a youtube user by the name "Niggeritarian"?

[KnightTemplar108]

@Drgamedood

Thats the guy with the thing about putting kids in his videos right?

Was called virablast or something?

[ProgressiveAudio]

@KnightTemplar108 Yes and he moved to Alaska after running into one too many legal troubles. Now people are threatening to kick his ass up there because he is recording them without their knowledge.

[Klingschor]

@BusinessEdgeRadio

I'm afraid not - I never censor people.

[BusinessEdgeRadio]

@Klingschor He's using sock account to censor / make his comments take precedence over others, Im asking to make all comments have equal weight by disabling thumb ratings.

[ProgressiveAudio]

@BusinessEdgeRadio I'd agree to that. Thumb ratings should be done away with since they are easily manipulative.

[Knr911]

@Klingschor Or you can just disable comment ratings if this thub thing really bothers you, it is not censorship at all.

As far as I'm concerned, I like to see her comment in the "top rated" ones, it's an opportunity for me to have a good laugh at the expense of these people. So superficial and obsessed, I'm guessing this "Laura Durkay" is in fact some successful left-wing troll pretending to be a conservative just to give christians a bad name ;-)

[mrx0066600]

no that's just her thumbing her own comments every time she comes back to them. I'm sure.

[KnightTemplar108]

@mrx0066600

That shouldn't work.

Not that I have tried or anything, but I assume you wouldn't be able to vote yourself up, let alone over and over.

[mrx0066600]

@KnightTemplar108

Yeah, I see what you mean now.

I guess they've corrected that flaw from a while ago.

[LauraDurkay]

Vincent you should really calm down...lol. Answering Muslims has Rationalizer videos and videos by Pat Condell...so are they far right bigots? If an atheist person, like yourself does comparative religion research are they far right bigots? What about all those Muslims who do comparative religion far right bigots?

Let the video response show you the person who is co-owner of Answering Muslims. How can an e-Muslim be XENOPHOBIC? Please dont use ad homenim attacks. Do Muslims ok gay marriage

[BusinessEdgeRadio]

@LauraDurkay Christianity is stupid and so is Islam. Christianity is 100% more stupid because you retards worship a god who's penis forskin was cut off by a human Jew ! I mean just fuck'em think about that for a min, how fuck shit stupid do you have to be to buy in to that shit?

[LauraDurkay]

@BusinessEdgeRadio Actually that is your belief and you have your own right for free speech to critize Christianity...now I don't call you a bigot for doing so? Or a far right extremist xenophobe for making such comments. I just think that if want to video about Islam and want to be 'scholarly' you should not use ad homenim attacks on others.

[BusinessEdgeRadio]

@LauraDurkay You wanna call me a bigot for not having the IQ of dog shit and believing a collection of 2000 year old scrap writings of obvious bullshit then go right ahead. By you're definition I'm a very proud bigot and by mine you're a very proud jackass!

[LauraDurkay]

@BusinessEdgeRadio lol...Actually I DIDN'T call you a bigot. I am making the comparison that if YOU made light of Christianity...that is your right and your belief, but why use ad homenim attacks? If someone criticizes Chrisitanity would they be called far right extremist bigots???

So if someone critiizes Islam in a comparative way, using Islamic sources...is that far right extremism and bigoted?

[BusinessEdgeRadio]

@LauraDurkay You people are all promoting scams! Both religions are stupid and are a clear insult to any true would be God, if there really is one out there. I dont respect Christians promoters because I see them as con men who pray on the weak minded and uneducated, at least Muslims show people that there is another line of bullshit out there , so hopefully more people can put 2 and 2 together and see that you're all full of shit.

[LauraDurkay]

@BusinessEdgeRadio Are you selective? Or do you include other religions also?

:P

[BusinessEdgeRadio]

@LauraDurkay Here is another point you're too stupid to understand.. but you should try and think about it anyway. The only reason Muhammad was successful is because you're religion sucked so much ass compared to his.

See he basically said worship one imaginary thing that is so great you cant comprehend it , and your fuck shit religion said worship some ass hat who got prison raped and killed by Jews lol Fuck man can you blame people for going with Muhammad and his 70 virgins? I think not!

[LauraDurkay]

@BusinessEdgeRadio uh I am an ex-Muslim.

[BusinessEdgeRadio]

@LauraDurkay No you're a ex-Ahmedi dont fucken try to play me man I'm not some scrub that doesn't know the score, jerky.

[LauraDurkay]

@BusinessEdgeRadio OH...are you a Muslim? You know Muslims consider Ahmadiyya heretics?

So are you are Muslim? Is that why you are selective? If you are a true atheist you will say the same for ALL religions.

[BusinessEdgeRadio]

@LauraDurkay Why would I be a Muslim? Because I wanna believe in talking ants,people living in fish, and flying jinn that serve and freak out people? lol No you dip shit I know Ahmadiyya are not Muslims because im educated not because Im brain washed lol Get your head out of your ass!

[LauraDurkay]

@BusinessEdgeRadio When I commented I said I was an ex-Muslim you said I was an ex-Ahmedi and didn't like the fact that a Muslim left Islam.

So are you a Muslim? Or are you just selective in your criticism in religion?

[BusinessEdgeRadio]

@LauraDurkay Okay I get it, you're stupid so Im gonna work slowly here :

# 1 I'm not a Muslim (I can give you at least 50 good reasons why Islam could not have been the brain child of any God) Do you understand that I am not a Muslim nor do I support Islam?

#2 Ahmedi is the Mormonism of Islam, Ahmedis aren't Muslims in the same way Mormons aren't Christians.

The religions aren't the same, to say they are is to lie, that is why mainstream Islam rejects it. Okay what dont you get so far?

[BusinessEdgeRadio]

@LauraDurkay and dude what the fuck is up with using the same 3 sock ass wipe accounts to thumb up all your retarded comments as if you're stupid ass has ever made any type of half way decent point?

You just have no ethics what so ever when it comes to peddling your bullshit. Let me make something very clear to you, you ass clown, you're not dealing with rubes here.. Do you understand? This is not the hick Texas audience you and your elk dream about, we are college educated people, you twat!

[Klingschor]

@BusinessEdgeRadio

Not me, DERP! I'm a wiki-scholar, dontchaknow?? :P

[BusinessEdgeRadio]

@LauraDurkay Fucken crack head.. you really think there is an invisible God that lives in space who knows and controls all things and yet for some reason he's taken the time to give a fuck about things like circumcision and what people do with their penis lol

Seriously dont you ever take the time to reflect at the level of bullshit you're trying to sell to people, look at you, you're just a fuck ball that lives to retard all societal advancements. I really hate you and your kind.

[LauraDurkay]

@BusinessEdgeRadio lol...you didn't answer my question. Are you a Muslim? Or are you selective in your criticism in religion?

[Krensharpaw]

@LauraDurkay just to let you know, a ad hom. is when someone for example, calls you stupid and uses that to say you're wrong. If they say you're stupid and give a reason that's not a ad hom. That's an insult, there is a difference.

Other then that, looking at your comments I have no idea what you're talking about and would rather wish to gettin into that since I don't know what's being debated or whatever, but thought I should correct you on calling something a ad hom. when it's not.

[Krensharpaw]

@Krensharpaw ment to put in I "don't" wish to get into that, but couldn't fit it into the 500 char. limit. Sorry.

[LauraDurkay]

Vincent you have 3 videos with the title "Was Muhammad Child Molester?" and you said you titled them so to do VIEWS. Well I did the same. I did the same to get views...now, what was the difference.



[KnightTemplar108]

That person was strange, jumping all about even when replying.