VDPSC- thanks for your interest in debate. It would be really good if you went into the best sources of information on these issues: the Institute of National Statistics, the Central Bank of Venezuela (both conduct studies with international auditors to supervise), and Center for Economic and Policy Research in Washington. You will find little evidence for your statements at best. We'll chat when you look at the actual numbers :) .
I'm looking at the rethinkvenezuela website which includes data cited by you. I'm also including my families experience who live there & my own from recent visits.Good has been done. Not enough, given the increase in oil wealth. Chavez uses cheap oil to advance HIS world politics, at the expense of Venezuelan's needs. Progess can be made without endangering democracy. The election results support my position.
I can't find any evidence for your statement that the shortages are the result of a big increase in consumption while a modest increase in agro. The government has recently acknowleged that they need to provide flexibilty in price controls to help ease shortages. There have been massive increases in consumption. Refrigerators autombiles etc... not milk&sugar
According to the president of the Camara Venezolana de Industrias Lacteas, this year has milk consumption increased 17%, while production 7%. According to PYMI Avicola, consumption of chicken has increased 30% this year, and produccion 15%. In general Venezuela's food produccion has increased 16.6%, while consumption of food can be seen to go up more sharply in key areas. (El Universal). Today Venezuelans moderately increment their food sovereignty and are much better fed.
No wonder there are shortages. Inflation 15 to 20% plus increased demand and yet producers are expected to sell at government price controls established as many as 5 years ago.
So, can we at least settle that Venezuela is significantly increasing production? 15% per year is pretty good. And that V's are MUCH better fed? That inflation is the lowest in 20 years? That real GDP (ie adjusted for inflation) is one of the highest in the world? Are these indicators good or bad?
The indicators are good. My concern is that he has wasted a lot of money propping up Cuba and others. I am thankful that the 69 amendments didn't pass. Maybe he will refocus on his original mission. Unfortunately he is making free enterprise and civil liberties more precarious. The wealthy don't suffer from shortages the poor do. I would love to see him put more $ into domestic programs.
Indeed I also worry about waste in economic policy. Perhaps reworking the price of dollars is needed, as while it contributes to keeping down inflation, it is hurting V's industry. I wonder what facts make you feel like free enterprise and civil liberties are being stymied? Or why you feel like making deals with Cuba that benefit both nations is wasteful? Venezuela provides the economic and political space for change in the island, while providing healthcare to its citizens.
True, not enough has been done. There is plenty to do to implement the vision of the 1999 Constitution. Plenty of poverty, plenty of corruption, crime, etc. However, I think Venezuela's foreign policy is very important. It has raised the price of oil, raised the standing of Venezuela in the world, is helping the rest of the region survive, integrate, develop and grow (which creates trading partners as well, thus making Venezuelan's better off in the long term). cont below.
3. The "failed socialist model" is nothing but making the economy work. Every country has the right to use its natural resources for domestic needs, and Venezuela has cut poverty in half in eight years, and has a booming economy growing at 11% since 2003. Should Venezuela not have lent a saving hand to Argentina when it could?
Sources: Central Bank of Venezuela, Center for Economic and Policy Research
Do you believe socialism is making the economy work or $100.00 barrel oil is making it work? Price controls have also been effective at keeping the shelves stocked as well. Buying Argentinian Bonds is actually an investment. Giving away oil below market rate to float failing socialist states such as Cuba is not an investment. I applaud improvement in infant mortality rates etc... The truth is a lot more should be happening given the vast increase in income this country has had.
The set of policies are making it work. 1.The rise in price of oil contributes a lot to V's GDP growth. The rise has been the policy of the Chavez admin, through OPEC. Interestingly, the economy is growing faster than other oil producing nations, and faster than in the 1970's oil boom. Thus, economically the policies are better than most! 2. The shelves are less stocked because of big increase in consumption, while modest increase in agro. 3.) Cuban doctors are not good for V?
The rise of the price of oil more than contributes a lot to V's GDP it almost drives it completely. Consumption of milk sugar and other staples has not spiked leading to shortages. Price controls in an inflationary economy has led to shortages with producers unwilling to sell at a loss. Surprising that land reform and siezure of private farms hasn't increased agriculture. Give away oil for Cuban pseudo doctors would be as wise as giving London cheap oil for traffic advice. Wait a minute...
Venezuela has not cut poverty in half in the last eight years. Even if you look at the data starting in 2004 which gets you past the poverty spike of the 2002 2003 due to the oil strike you still can't come up with a 50% reduction in poverty.
You are completely right, "cut poverty in half" is not precisely the figures. Household poverty rate in 1998=49% ; 2003=54% ; first half 2007= 27.5%; which respectively represents 44.9% and 49.1% reductions in poverty rates- pretty close to 50%. This only measures poverty by cash income (Instituto Nacional de Estadistica). If you factor in the new access to healthcare and subsidized food, you are well above 50% poverty reductions.
Venezuela has not cut its poverty rate in half in the last eight years. Even if you include the poverty spike in 2002-2003 attributed to the oil workers strike you can't come up with a 50% reduction in poverty.
2. Inflation is not at 20%- 2006 was at 15.9%, which is high, but is one of the the lowest it has been in recent Venezuelan history. Inflation did not go below 28% in the 1990s.
Sources: Central Bank of Venezuela, Center for Economic and Policy Research
Of course their economy is growing with oil $100 barrel. To bad inflation is 20% and they are destroying free enterprise making people dependent on doing business with the government. Venezuelans don't object to his helping the poor. They object to his petrol diplomacy giving away national resources to fund & spread a failed socialist model. Venezuelans want improved lives but not at the risk of losing democracy. Hooray for the defeat of the 69 amendments.
1. The economy began to grow after the opposition led a coup and an oil strike (2002-2003), well before the barrel the barrel hovered around $100. The oil strike alone cost Venezuela $14 billion USD, and the Chavez administration has been the rallying agent behind OPEC to get the price up (though not the only factor).
What can I Say ? It's democracy in it's purest expression. No Tyrant, no Dictator. Just a democratly elected President who is working so hard to give venezuelans what they have been taken away through decades of Wild Capitalism in our Country. Viva Chavez !
VDPSC- thanks for your interest in debate. It would be really good if you went into the best sources of information on these issues: the Institute of National Statistics, the Central Bank of Venezuela (both conduct studies with international auditors to supervise), and Center for Economic and Policy Research in Washington. You will find little evidence for your statements at best. We'll chat when you look at the actual numbers :) .
RRE26 4 years ago
I'm looking at the rethinkvenezuela website which includes data cited by you. I'm also including my families experience who live there & my own from recent visits.Good has been done. Not enough, given the increase in oil wealth. Chavez uses cheap oil to advance HIS world politics, at the expense of Venezuelan's needs. Progess can be made without endangering democracy. The election results support my position.
VDPSC 4 years ago
I can't find any evidence for your statement that the shortages are the result of a big increase in consumption while a modest increase in agro. The government has recently acknowleged that they need to provide flexibilty in price controls to help ease shortages. There have been massive increases in consumption. Refrigerators autombiles etc... not milk&sugar
VDPSC 4 years ago
According to the president of the Camara Venezolana de Industrias Lacteas, this year has milk consumption increased 17%, while production 7%. According to PYMI Avicola, consumption of chicken has increased 30% this year, and produccion 15%. In general Venezuela's food produccion has increased 16.6%, while consumption of food can be seen to go up more sharply in key areas. (El Universal). Today Venezuelans moderately increment their food sovereignty and are much better fed.
RRE26 4 years ago
No wonder there are shortages. Inflation 15 to 20% plus increased demand and yet producers are expected to sell at government price controls established as many as 5 years ago.
VDPSC 4 years ago
So, can we at least settle that Venezuela is significantly increasing production? 15% per year is pretty good. And that V's are MUCH better fed? That inflation is the lowest in 20 years? That real GDP (ie adjusted for inflation) is one of the highest in the world? Are these indicators good or bad?
RRE26 4 years ago
The indicators are good. My concern is that he has wasted a lot of money propping up Cuba and others. I am thankful that the 69 amendments didn't pass. Maybe he will refocus on his original mission. Unfortunately he is making free enterprise and civil liberties more precarious. The wealthy don't suffer from shortages the poor do. I would love to see him put more $ into domestic programs.
VDPSC 4 years ago
Indeed I also worry about waste in economic policy. Perhaps reworking the price of dollars is needed, as while it contributes to keeping down inflation, it is hurting V's industry. I wonder what facts make you feel like free enterprise and civil liberties are being stymied? Or why you feel like making deals with Cuba that benefit both nations is wasteful? Venezuela provides the economic and political space for change in the island, while providing healthcare to its citizens.
RRE26 4 years ago
True, not enough has been done. There is plenty to do to implement the vision of the 1999 Constitution. Plenty of poverty, plenty of corruption, crime, etc. However, I think Venezuela's foreign policy is very important. It has raised the price of oil, raised the standing of Venezuela in the world, is helping the rest of the region survive, integrate, develop and grow (which creates trading partners as well, thus making Venezuelan's better off in the long term). cont below.
RRE26 4 years ago
3. The "failed socialist model" is nothing but making the economy work. Every country has the right to use its natural resources for domestic needs, and Venezuela has cut poverty in half in eight years, and has a booming economy growing at 11% since 2003. Should Venezuela not have lent a saving hand to Argentina when it could?
Sources: Central Bank of Venezuela, Center for Economic and Policy Research
RRE26 4 years ago
Do you believe socialism is making the economy work or $100.00 barrel oil is making it work? Price controls have also been effective at keeping the shelves stocked as well. Buying Argentinian Bonds is actually an investment. Giving away oil below market rate to float failing socialist states such as Cuba is not an investment. I applaud improvement in infant mortality rates etc... The truth is a lot more should be happening given the vast increase in income this country has had.
VDPSC 4 years ago
The set of policies are making it work. 1.The rise in price of oil contributes a lot to V's GDP growth. The rise has been the policy of the Chavez admin, through OPEC. Interestingly, the economy is growing faster than other oil producing nations, and faster than in the 1970's oil boom. Thus, economically the policies are better than most! 2. The shelves are less stocked because of big increase in consumption, while modest increase in agro. 3.) Cuban doctors are not good for V?
RRE26 4 years ago
The rise of the price of oil more than contributes a lot to V's GDP it almost drives it completely. Consumption of milk sugar and other staples has not spiked leading to shortages. Price controls in an inflationary economy has led to shortages with producers unwilling to sell at a loss. Surprising that land reform and siezure of private farms hasn't increased agriculture. Give away oil for Cuban pseudo doctors would be as wise as giving London cheap oil for traffic advice. Wait a minute...
JuFu1 4 years ago
Again this is my post I didn'tlog myself back in.
VDPSC 4 years ago
Venezuela has not cut poverty in half in the last eight years. Even if you look at the data starting in 2004 which gets you past the poverty spike of the 2002 2003 due to the oil strike you still can't come up with a 50% reduction in poverty.
JuFu1 4 years ago
You are completely right, "cut poverty in half" is not precisely the figures. Household poverty rate in 1998=49% ; 2003=54% ; first half 2007= 27.5%; which respectively represents 44.9% and 49.1% reductions in poverty rates- pretty close to 50%. This only measures poverty by cash income (Instituto Nacional de Estadistica). If you factor in the new access to healthcare and subsidized food, you are well above 50% poverty reductions.
RRE26 4 years ago
This is my post not jufu1. I didn't know he was on my computer. I posted again above.
VDPSC 4 years ago
Venezuela has not cut its poverty rate in half in the last eight years. Even if you include the poverty spike in 2002-2003 attributed to the oil workers strike you can't come up with a 50% reduction in poverty.
VDPSC 4 years ago
continued from below:
2. Inflation is not at 20%- 2006 was at 15.9%, which is high, but is one of the the lowest it has been in recent Venezuelan history. Inflation did not go below 28% in the 1990s.
Sources: Central Bank of Venezuela, Center for Economic and Policy Research
RRE26 4 years ago
Of course their economy is growing with oil $100 barrel. To bad inflation is 20% and they are destroying free enterprise making people dependent on doing business with the government. Venezuelans don't object to his helping the poor. They object to his petrol diplomacy giving away national resources to fund & spread a failed socialist model. Venezuelans want improved lives but not at the risk of losing democracy. Hooray for the defeat of the 69 amendments.
VDPSC 4 years ago
VDPSC- Here are some interesting facts:
1. The economy began to grow after the opposition led a coup and an oil strike (2002-2003), well before the barrel the barrel hovered around $100. The oil strike alone cost Venezuela $14 billion USD, and the Chavez administration has been the rallying agent behind OPEC to get the price up (though not the only factor).
RRE26 4 years ago
The United States could learn much from the Venuzuelan model.
xercessf 4 years ago 5
What can I Say ? It's democracy in it's purest expression. No Tyrant, no Dictator. Just a democratly elected President who is working so hard to give venezuelans what they have been taken away through decades of Wild Capitalism in our Country. Viva Chavez !
JoseDavid281 4 years ago
I agree 100%
Viva Venezuela
elbita01 4 years ago