The Science of God - Dr. Gerald Schroeder Part 1

[divud123]

I appreciate all that you put into replying to my comment. Have you ever heard of the Trinity? The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit? Since it seems I have opened up a huge discussion with my comment, it would take more than one or two comments to actually prove my point about the trinity. I will simply point you to a video series entitled "Jesus Or Mohammad The Trinity".

[1tabligh]

@divud123 Have you ever heard of the Trinity?

_

Islam denies Trinity because parenthood of God to any living or non-living being is inconceivable in bodily terms and degrading to the concept of God. He is neither limited nor a body, and He encompasses the whole universe. He does not have a mate in order to have a child as any other living being does.

His spiritual parenthood to any soul or spirit is also inconceivable if it means other than being the Creator of that soul or spirit.

[1tabligh]

@divud123 There is no conceivable relation between God and any other being other than the relation between the Creator and His creature. Otherwise, the other being will be independent from God, and he will be His partner.

Now, if the ascribed son is united with God, the case will be as if I state that my son and I are one. If such a statement were true, I would be the father of myself, because I am my own son. And my son would be the son of himself, because he is I.

[1tabligh]

@divud123 Thus, God would be the father of Himself, and His son would be the son of himself.

God is not, and cannot be, the father of any living or non-living being if fatherhood is used for its true meaning. If the word is used in its figurative sense, to mean that God is as compassionate to His living creature as a father, then He will not only be the father of one person but the father of all mankind. And this is what can be understood from the Christian prayer,

[1tabligh]

@divud123 "Our father, Thou art in Heaven. . . "

But even this figurative usage of the word is repugnant to Islam because it is misleading and confusing to the people. Muslims, therefore, do not use it.

Islam emphatically denies this doctrine. The Holy Qur'an declares:

[1tabligh]

@divud123 "Say: God is One on Whom all depend. He did not beget, nor was He begotten, and none is equal to Him." 112:1-4

"And they say the Beneficent has taken to Himself a son. Certainly you make an abominable assertion. The heavens may almost burst, and the Earth cleave asunder, and the mountains fall down in pieces, that they ascribe a son to the Beneficent. And it is not worthy of the Beneficent that He should take to Himself a son." 19:88-92

[odinata]

Garbage.

[divud123]

@odinata Why?

[1tabligh]

What is called science by the *science-worshippers* of the present age and regarded by them as equivalent to the sum total of *reality*, is simply a collection of laws applicable to a single dimension of the world. The result of all human effort and experimentation is a body of knowledge concerning a minute bright dot comparable to the dim light of a candle-surrounded by a dark night enveloping a huge desert of indefinite extent.

All praise is due to ALLAH, the Lord of the Universe.

[divud123]

@1tabligh Allah is not the Lord of this universe. He is the Prince of Persia, and evil being who wants nothing more than to eat your soul in hell. With all due respect to your beliefs, Yeshua/Jesus is the Creator and my savior. I pray that you will come to know him in due time.

[divud123]

@odinata Ignore.

[odinata]

@divud123

You will.

But science goes on without you.

Failure.

[divud123]

@odinata Tell me, what makes you a Christian? Because what I said, is also said in scripture. Unless your'e just trolling, which quite frankly you are. Save it for the Judge.

[odinata]

@divud123

You seem to think your religious opinions are of any value.

Everybody's got one.

There is no "judge".

[divud123]

@odinata You didn't answer my question. What makes you a Christian?

[odinata]

@divud123

What makes your religious opinions the only right one?

[divud123]

@odinata I asked you a simple question, and you still can't answer it. To be polite, I would point you to ancient texts. If that doesn't suite your ego, let's hope you can.

[odinata]

@divud123

Mine wasn't simple enough for you?

Your ancient texts, nor your opinions seem to have the power of a single fact....

[divud123]

@odinata I must have missed it, in spite of all your cheap arguments. Troll.

[odinata]

@divud123

You will miss a lot, as your personal religious opinions block from view all of the facts that make the world what it is...

You are consumed by your own personal feelings.

[1tabligh]

@divud123 You do not need to disprove the divinity of Jesus or Mohammad or any other human being. But if you claim the divinity of anyone besides God, you need to prove your claim. If someone claims that you are an angel, he has to prove it. I do not need to prove that you are a man because you appear as a man and have all the attributes of a man. The one who claims that you are an angel is supposed to prove what he claims, because his claim is contrary to the common sense and to what

[1tabligh]

@divud123 appears as the actual fact.

When a person says that Jesus or Mohammad is a man, and not a God, he agrees with the accepted definition. Jesus lived like a man, looked like a man, slept as a man, ate as a man, and was persecuted like one. None of these facts need proof. This is not the case with the one who claims his divinity. His claim is opposed to the common knowledge. Therefore, he, and no one else, has to provide the evidence for his claim.

[1tabligh]

@divud123 Although the Muslims are not supposed to provide any evidence for the denial of the divinity of Jesus, they can present more than one evidence:

1. Jesus was a worshipper. Of course, he worshipped God, not himself. This proves that he was not a god but a very humble servant of God.

[1tabligh]

@divud123 2. According to three of the gospels, the last words Jesus uttered were: "My God, my God, why hast Thou forsaken me?" A person who has a God is not a God.

3. God is Ever-Living, but Jesus is mortal; God is the Almighty, but Jesus was persecuted.

[1tabligh]

@divud123 Allah is not the Lord of this universe

___

Then in that case ARABIC bible is also false!

Because it calls God ALLAH in arabic bible!

Look it up!

[divud123]

@1tabligh I will also leave you with this scripture, "Jesus answered, 'I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him' ".

John 14:6-7

[divud123]

@1tabligh Whoops, I spelled Muhammad wrong. Also, the video doesn't work. Try "ABN Jesus Or Mohammad The Trinity of the Scripture 00". These guys explain it better than I do lol! 

[1tabligh]

@divud123 Having two sides, spirit and body, is not the exclusive property of Jesus, because every human being has these two sides. You have both spirit and body, and so do I. And neither of our spirits is mortal, since our spirits will continue to live after our death. But this does not make either of us a god, and so is the case with Jesus.

[divud123]

@1tabligh Jesus is God in human flesh. The Holy Spirit was inside him according to scripture. That's how he was able to perform miracles. According to scripture, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are all One. The Old Testament, as well reveals the Christian concept of the Godhead, with God being one God, revealed as three persons.

[1tabligh]

@divud123 Being born from a mother without a father does not make Jesus more than a human being. Adam was created without father and mother, and that did not make him more than a human.

From the Holy Qur'an:

"Certainly the status of Jesus in the eyes of God is like the status of Adam. He created him from dust. He said to him: 'Be,' and so he was." 3:59

Neither Jesus nor Adam is a god because neither of them is the Creator of the universe.

[1tabligh]

@divud123 The bible!

And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; the Lord our God is one Lord:" (Mark 12:29)

He did not say Hear, O Israel; the Lord *YOUR* God is one Lord:" (Mark 12:29)

But said Hear, O Israel; the Lord *our**(including himself) God is one Lord:" (Mark 12:29)

I have 3 the bibles, different versions and all say OUR and look it up on internet it says OUR!

[divud123]

@1tabligh Mark 12:29 does say "our". I mean, Jesus clearly calls the Father his Father all throughout scripture. What is your point?

[1tabligh]

@divud123 The scientists say that the stars are more than four billion years old, and Jesus was born less than two thousand years ago. How can such an old universe be created by such a young creator?

Matthew 26:39

And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and ****prayed****, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

If Jesus was God, then who was he praying to?

Himself?

Look it up!

[divud123]

@1tabligh Let me ask you a question. Where in the New Testament does the Father ever say "I AM THAT I AM" or "I AM"? Nowhere. Because it is the Lord Jesus who says this in Exodus 3:14. And we see that God the Father is not called Lord. Jesus is the only one who is called Lord. Plus, in Exodus 3:2 it was the Angel of the Lord that appeared to him. Not a cherubim, or a seraphim, but an Angel (messenger). Jesus says "I AM" multiple times in the New Testament. So yes, Jesus is God.

[1tabligh]

@divud123 Mark 15:34

And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?

If Jesus was God, then who was he crying to?

Himself?

(Mark 10:18).

"And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is God."

Why is telling them this if he (Jesus) was God?

Look it up in the bible!

[1tabligh]

@divud123 Although Islam accepts the holiness of Jesus, it denies his divinity. According to the teaching of Islam, Jesus is no deity. He is not God, nor is he united with God. He is worthy of reverence and great respect, but he is not worthy of worship. Islam is uncompromising in its Monotheism. God is only One, and there is no God but He, the Almighty, the Ever-Living, the Self-Subsistent, the Infinite in life, knowledge, and power. Jesus is not ever-living.

[1tabligh]

@divud123 He was born less than 2000 years ago, and according to the gospels, he died after a very short life. He is not almighty because he was a subject of persecution; nor was he infinite. He could not be the Creator of the world because the world is over four billion years old, while he was born less than two thousand years ago. He is not worthy of worship because he himself was a humble worshipper of God.

[divud123]

@1tabligh I've heard this side any times, I've seen many debates between Christian apologists and Muslims, so I'm quite familiar with what the Qur'an, Hadith, and the Prophet Muhammad all have to say. However, I don't blindly chose my faith. Islam can deny Christ's crucifixion. But when archaeological evidence of the crucifixion is on the table, people need to change their paradigm. I'll give you one example: the shroud of Turin. I'd like to know your thoughts on it.

[1tabligh]

@divud123 Islam advocates the holiness of Jesus. As a matter of fact, it is an essential part of the Islamic teaching to revere Jesus and to believe in his holiness, and that he lived in this world as a pure person free of any sin. From the Holy Qur'an:

"When the angels said: 'O Mary! Surely God gives thee good news of a word from Him whose name is the Messiah, Jesus, Son of Mary, worthy of regard in this world and the hereafter, and of those who are highly accepted by God.' " 3:45

[1tabligh]

@divud123 2. Jesus, according to the teaching of Islam, is not a son of God. God does not have any son or child, because He is above that. Bodily parenthood is inconceivable in His case because He is not physical. Spiritual parenthood also is not conceivable, because He is the Creator of every spiritual and material being. The Holy Qur'an is clear on this point:

[1tabligh]

@divud123 "And (they) impute falsely, without knowledge, sons and daughters unto Him. Glorified be He and high exalted above (all) that they ascribe (unto Him). The Originator of the heavens and the Earth! How can He have a child when there is no consort for Him, when He created all things and is Aware of all things? Such is God, your Lord. There is no God save Him, the Creator of all things, so worship Him. And He taketh care of all things." 6:100-102

[1tabligh]

Islam denies the crucifixion of Jesus. Jesus did not die on the cross.

"And because of their saying: 'We slew the Messiah Jesus Son of Mary, the Messenger of God.' They slew him not nor crucified him, but appeared so unto them; and lo! Those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof; they have no knowledge thereof but the pursuit of a conjecture; for certain they slew him not, but God took him up to Himself. God is Ever-Mighty, Wise." Quran 4:157-158

[JAKEHARRIS281]

Google L Ray Smith Bible-Truths and read some of his articles. Also Stephen Jones Gods-Kingdom-Ministries.

[AlShaddai]

Aren't we all hermeneutists in our own way? We can be formally trained (systematically schooled) or we can be self-taught with lots of practical experience and critical thinking. Given that, I have every qualification to speak out on this topic. Do you?  So, kiss my ass you meathead.

[AlShaddai]

In my humble opinion, you do require additional knowledge of evolution. Don't we all? Do you know everything about it? Of course not. Are you through learning? I hope not. You do seem to be somewhat knowledgeable, but a bit wrong here and there. Glad to hear of your connection with Ken Miller.

[AlShaddai]

The "Great Ape" in the context in which I used that term was a real creature from which modern humans descended. You are correct in your statements about orangs, bonobos, chimps, gorillas, etc. The "Great Ape" was a common ancestor to these species.

[AlShaddai]

It has been my experience that most people look for "evidence" that, in their mind, substantiates their personal beliefs, especially religious beliefs. I think that's why these videos were posted by smarwarload, and I think that's why Schroeder made the lectures. Apparently his approach is, if you don't like the facts you see in front of you, just make up new stuff that no one can prove or disprove.

[AlShaddai]

Something else that irritates me with Schroeder is his apparent overblown ego. Everywhere you turn whether on a book cover, the intro to an article, or a description of a talk, you see "MIT-trained" after his name. He needs to grow up in that regard. we know he's smart. Plenty of people are "MIT-trained," "Harvard-trained," etc. They don't go waving it around like flag of honor. At least this video spared us that branding. Attending a specific university doesn't make you wise.

[AlShaddai]

I can't believe he actually believes God create Adam and Eve as described in Genesis. He has gone round the bend, over the cliff. Science has shown without a doubt that human beings evolved from the Great Ape around 7 million years ago - like it or not, it's true. It's people like Schoeder that confuse people who aren't formally trained or well-read in science. He is totally wrong and is just trying to justify his personal beliefs which he cannot bear to change.

[smartwarlord]

@AlShaddai

How exactly does the fact of hominids prior to homo sapien sapiens contradict Adam & Eve? Also, we are the main-line branch of Great Apes, Chimps/Bonobos/Gorillas are split-offs of our line, not the other way around.

[AlShaddai]

@smartwarlord . Schroeder is trying to take the creation myth of Genesis (both creation myths) and "facturalize" them. Obviously, Homo sapiens sapiens (modern humans) were not created as described in Genesis. There are literally hundreds of creation stories from cultures around the world over time; some cultures have several. Why is the Jewish creation myth the one and only correct one? Actually, none of them are true. Evolution is true.

[AlShaddai]

@smartwarlord . Regarding "... main-line of Great Apes...," please consult an authoritative Biology text or an authoritative website with evolution content (like U. of California, Berkeley). I said that "human beings evolved from the Great Ape...". That is a true statement, so what is your problem? It is also true that chimps, bonobos, and gorillas split off of the same line. What is you point?

[smartwarlord]

@AlShaddai

Was there a disagreement or not, in that comment? I live near UC Berkeley fyi.

[AlShaddai]

@smartwarlord @smartwarlord . Your statement appeared to be advanced to correct my previous statement about humans descending from the Great Ape. I merely pointed out that your statement was unnecessary since it agreed with what I said. UC Berkeley has a good evolution website here: search "evolution berkeley website". I work with data from this site and others: search "ncbi website". Ken Miller (Brown U.) has a couple of good books for the evolution non-specialist.

[smartwarlord]

@AlShaddai

No, you made "the great ape" sound like a specific creature, when in fact, we're all still great apes. Thus I clarified, based on current hominid evidence, that we are the mainline branch of the same line that produced the off-shoots of Pan and Gorillae. Also far earlier - the Orangutans branch and its ancestor species. I stated that we are the mainline branch to demonstrate our remarkable similarity to those early ape ancestors that spawned our 5 species.

[smartwarlord]

@AlShaddai

That said, I by no means agree with the presentation Dr. Schroeder provides, and am all too happy to admit some of his errors, mainly because I've never believed like him, and most religious Jews also lean more towards Scientific Evolution rather than this Day-Age theory. (in the colloquial sense, scientifically it's more of a hypothesis).

I'm already a big fan of Kenneth Miller.

I don't require any more knowledge in Evolution and its relevant fields (Biology/Paleontology, etc).

[AlShaddai]

Please don't be fooled by this guy. The Bible has been shown by experts to be highly unreliable. It contains forgeries, some parts are in direct conflict with other parts. Schroeder has committed his life to the Torah, Abraham, Judaism, etc. He is afraid of the truth, so he distorts the Bible (Jewish part only of course) to fit his beliefs. He cherry picks science, in some cases he deliberately misleads. His Genesis statements are laughable. Ignore him, learn science.

[smartwarlord]

@AlShaddai

You described the New Testament, not the Bible.

[AlShaddai]

@smartwarlord . Read some Bart Ehrman, especially his latest book, "Forged." Although he focuses on the New Testament, he says that the Old Testament is in even worse shape. Also read "Quantum Gods" by Victor Stenger and "God According to God" by Gerald Schroeder and then decide which one passes the "smell test."

[AegeanKing]

@AlShaddai Am i to assume that you are a trained hermeneutist? If not, shut up.

[danny21uk]

@AlShaddai Ignore AlShad - learn Hebrew. Unless you know Hebrew, you can't understand anything fully - like AlShad proves.

[smartwarlord]

@danny21uk

That is right, as I am fluent in both Hebrew (the language of G-d) and Aramaic (the language of Jesus), his comments here and elsewhere had me laughing.

By the way, 'Al' is Arabic, it's El in Hebrew

[DharanShotya]

If he would have read the Bible better he came to the conclusion the Bible doesnt say GOd created the WORLD in 6 days. He created the people the animals and plants in 6 days, thats something comletely different. That what can explain the age of this world.

[91BROWNIE91]

@DharanShotya maybe he really did create the entire universe including the world in 6 days. It may just depend on where in space your are looking at time. Time would go by faster at the center of the universe than the edge.

[simcult]

At 3:27 he states "Science had proven GOD created the earth". This is a lie. Science has NEVER proven GOD did ANYTHING. You can't slip GOD in there because you BELIEVE it to be true.

[codenik]

@simcult

Listen again! He states "Science has proven the first part of the first sentence". Nowhere does he say what you claim he says. He only shows how science, which for a very long time believed that the universe was eternal (no beginning) and has attacked the Bible for its concept of creation, has finally come to agree with the Bible: The universe has a beginning. That's all he says there.

[simcult]

@codenik You are correct he did say "Science has proven the first part of the first sentence". However, he then goes on to assume that God created everything - this begins at 5:15. I'd like a demonstration that a) God exists and THEN b) he created everything. You can't get from a) to b) because you read a few passages in a book and assume it's all correct. Demonstration is the key.

[DharanShotya]

@simcult Christians dont assume, they believe.

Believe something you cannot see

[MegaStarhawk]

@DharanShotya also remember just because you can't see something it dosen't mean it's not there.

[warren52nz]

2:27 "Science is to learn, the Bible is fixed"

Yeah like a card game is fixed. LOL

[TheFlanker35]

He's an excellent mind. He also brilliantly concludes that many religions (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam) are essentially the same faith.

Did Aristotle teach that the universe was eternal? If he did, this doesn't seem consistent with his constructivist philosophy. From what I've read of Aristotle, he didn't believe anything was actually infinite.

[Purushadasa]

Brilliant!

[sholomful]

he is not an atheist, An athiest read his book and changed his mind

[INITIALSJE]

So, I've read "The Science Of God" and I don't get how they say he is an atheist.

Do they mean, he "was" an atheist?

[Renaisanceman]

Excellent!

[jsem94]

Nice, nice.

[kvash3154]

thanks for putting these up, I was looking for them.

[smartwarlord]

I was looking for them as well.

Glad you enjoyed.