Results? The greatest growth in the standard of living of any society has occurred in places where markets are allowed to work largely unhindered.
An employer should have the right to terminate an employee for any reason and at any time, as long as the employment contract allows it. You can't force an employer to hire or retain an employee against his/her will. The employer owns the business. Employment must be a voluntary transaction in order to protect private property rights.
Keep living in your "free-market" fantasy land fishmonger, fishbinger.. whatever the hell your name is. I LOOK AT RESULTS. The results of the methodical destruction of unions in this country has been devastating for working-class people! Real hourly wages have been totally stagnant or in most cases going DOWN for decades, since the late 70's. A working person can now be fired for any reason OR NO REASON AT ALL. In most states there isn't even any labor relations board! Reality says you're lying!
@CosmicFork I'm not anti-union but destruction of unions have nothing to do with the american decline. In fact, they helped it happen. US automakers got comfortable with no outside competition and stopped innovating. The Japanese come and decimate them (US consumers long loyal to US brands cant afford breakdowns), and so the UAW lobbies to bail out the failed american auto co.s for the sake of their jobs. Unions are great when theres no competition, and thats bad for the consumer.
@martydrooo American car companies were crushed by Japanese car companies that used union labor. Unions on both sides of the equation cancel each other out, therefore unions had nothing to do with why Toyota, Honda, etc. won out.. Also, the government doesn't listen to unions nearly as much as it listens to corporations because they don't have nearly as much money to spend on politicians. Bailouts were given because the corporate masters demanded them.
@Anglagard1 Yes and no. Japs, Koreans, and krauts all have their factories in RTW states. Prior to that, unionized Jap. workers made far less than US counterparts (in the 70s/80s, but not the 90s). It's not a question about labor costs, though. The AFL-CIO lobby, far larger than any corporate lobby, never let any auto company fail; Rewarding failure. US co.s never had to compete at first, JP cos had to compete from day 1. Bad pc chip makers fail, bad car co.s get bailouts since the 70s.
@martydrooo Those nice unions jobs were for the most part gone before GM's most recent failing, most parts being made in Mexico and other countries by non-union labor. If AFL-CIO had the power you suggest they do, they never would have let those jobs go overseas to non-union workers.
That's all well and good for a discussion that doesn't involve facts or logic. The truth of the matter, however, is that employers hire fewer people when they have to pay workers more than the equilibrium wage. This is ECON 101. Labor is bought and sold in a market. Please try reading once in a while.
I'd rather live in a society in which people could work hard and be paid for their accomplishments, instead of demanding higher pay by holding a metaphorical gun to the head of their employer.
This guy below me: "fishbinger" reminds me of a quote from The Robber Baron, Jay Gould who said: "I can hire one half of the working class to kill the other half!" You don't have to wonder which half... (which side he'd be on). You're pathetic fishbinger, and a perfect example of why the working class in this country will continue to be TREATED LIKE DOGSHIT!!!
I worked for a union and made a decent wage. Then, the union was busted and wages were cut and half and we did more work. I barely made enough money to eat. I said fuck it. I quit and not stay at a local mission and eat free meals there. I am doing what philosopher Bertrand Russel wanted the worker to do, just quit making money for the rich man. I hope I am judged poorly. I know I will be by the general public. I'm not working for the Ayn Rand idiots any longer.
Why are those who are pro-union so frequently anti-monopoly in rhetoric? Why, for instance, should one union unanimously represent the workers at several supermarket chains in my area?
Another question: how do unions help with unemployment or this nebulous "living wage" demand? Unions, with pay scales based on seniority (based on time spent in the union, paying dues), discourage the hiring of anyone with union seniority.
The Chicago Transit Authority ran up a 217 million dollar deficit. Between 80 and 90 million was spent last year due to CTA workers calling off (the fill-in worker often gets time and a half pay for filling in and the worker who calls off gets paid). The workers are protected because of the unions and this ridiculousness continues. If labor unions want broad support from the American people they need to fight to fix these issues rather than fighting to defend this type of behavior.
Let's talk about Friedman's ideological consequences on the real world as seen in Reaganomics. The effort to undermine and destroy Labor Unions peaked in the "Reagan Years". I lived through those years, and only Margaret Thatcher succeeded in smashing down workers in England better. Managements goal has always been to undermine the basic rights guaranteed by The 1935 Wagner Act, or National Labor Relations Act. The basic method of this Anti-Union War is illegally firing thousands of workers!
@CosmicFork you do know that in england businesses were not allowed to use power for three straight days due to labour disputes, garbage was no picked up for days at a time, public water and sewage maintenance were effectively stopped. margaret thatchers policies to privatize certain sections of utilities and services allowed for business to thrive in england, labour unions will always extort themselves out of work. and now with a global economy its even more relevant.
@rudesskeys Well, I can see from your comment, that you are Anti-Union! I don't know what happened in England. I do know that in America: The Reagan Administration made it very clear that it would NOT enforce the law, (The National Labor Relations Act). So that was Carte Blanche to employers, (business) to just carry out criminal actions and engage in thousands of illegal firings. This illegal distruction of unions was a major factor in lowering wages and increasing the gap between rich & poor!
@CosmicFork look i am just for the liberty of contract. private unions have taken serious cutbacks but the grossly overpaid public sector employees have still gotten pay raises, still receive health coverage for their families, still receive at minimum 75% pension for life. we cant afford this! i live in a very wealthy area on long island (suffolk county) and it has become obvious to people that the police and teachers are the higher earners in the middle class, yet i pay the taxes to fund them
@rudesskeys That's interesting, because I've had the same experience, (my property taxes on my small house are becoming unbearable.) I'm just saying that the concept of total deregulation, (which Friedman pushed) has had some terrible consequences for working people. The idea was to deregulate everything, (the airlines, the phone company, the banks, the utilities, but, ESPECIALLY let's deregulate labor!) So, in the spirit of deregulation, Reagan declared "open season" for Union Busters.
@CosmicFork absolutely i agree with you that total deregulation would implode, thats the emphasis on contracts. minimum standards are in the governments business, but pay regulation, universal maternity leave, stress leave, and the works are just costly because instead of it being a negotiation between the two parties there is the fringe government in the middle making it more expensive for both sides to just get a simple agreement.
@CosmicFork Define "illegally firing thousands of workers". If I employ someone, should it not be within my rights to terminate their employment at any time?
@frase32 Well prior to 1935 (Wagner Act) employers had the right to just fire workers simply because they had enrolled in unions. Before the law, employers had liberty to spy upon, question, punish, black list, and fire anyone who even breathed "union" under their breath. So, The NLRA law is considered the "Magna Carta" of American labor, because it ensures at least a some basic rights for workers. The Wagner Act drove Business berserk! They thought they had the country by the throat!
@frase32 No, not without good cause and reason.Would it be in the worker's rights to strike outside your store.Treat people well and you will be treated well!!!
@mba2ceo Fact: A living wage is a subjective term. Businesses should not be held to the subjective will of a mob of employees. Professional growth, so long as you sell your soul and become a part of the mob. I don't see how you could call a protection racket dignified. It is anything but. Extortion != Dignity.
@mba2ceo FACT: We spend twice as much on public schools as we used to in 1970 because of union contracts and the students are receiving essentially the same education.
@mba2ceo before the turn of the last century the poverty level was around 90-95%. Then we had the industrial revolution which lowered production costs. This allowed companies like Ford to pay their factory workers more in wages than any other country in the world. This all occurred before labor unions existed. Milton Friedman was right on this one.
@mba2ceo I would call it nationalization, because the safety part comes from the federal government when the companies go bankrupt. Also manufacturing jobs are all going overseas because they don't want to deal with unions, so you might be safe in your job, but the next American loses a job. A lot of things in life suck, but we cant put it all on the other guy.
-Unions create a barriers to entry in the labour market for young or unskilled workers, raising wages within the union, creating unemployment for those outside.
-Unions make wages stickier so increases unemployment and the collapse of businesses in a recession.
-Where wages are driven highest is where the replacement of labour with capital is most strongly incentivised. Capital is diverted from where it is most needed to labour cartels (unions), creating unemployment outside the cartel.
Utter tosh. The man is not a worker so he has no need for unions.Unions are to assist workers get a better deal for their members and to that end they are evoled.
@DREwestcoast Unity is strength! TU represent and defend workers and try to impove wages and conditions. Most officials of the TU have the skills to deal with management and can also call on lawers to assist, esp where there are accident claims
@grandslam1998 yeah, and they certainly take their cut for it, most of the time these so called 'worker's strike' are being fueled by Union leaders wanting to enrich themselves, and the workers actually lose some of their conditions, so no thanks, I also don't like unions thinking they can boss people around and decide what pay you'll get
@DREwestcoast What makes you think that unions decide what pay workers you will get, It is employers who decide that. Unions try to increase the wages and conditions of workers,that is why they exist. Trade unions leaders in the UK are elected and are there by the will of the members.Striking is the last resort.
Friedman is an apologist for management, that's IT. His economic ideas are flawed and failed. All of his apologists couldn't make it through anything beyond Econ 101 if they tried.
The effort to undermine and destroy Labor Unions peaked in "The Reagan Years". This little corporate puke Friedman was the intellectual genesis behind "Deregulation." Deregulation was suppose to bring about a "Free Market" Economic Utopia. Yeah, Not Hardly! The masses are weaker, alienated and more uneducated, while the elites get richer, more powerful and more repressive every minute! The wealth in our country is more concentrated than ever before in our lifetimes! Friedman = Corporate Whore.
Read The Law by Bastiat (free download on the 'net.) then watch The Agenda (Amazon). It is the youth of this nation that will inherit the bills this administration is running up at warp speed. RESTORE AMERICA 2012 RON PAUL
@lvll138inrs Why, so he can ruin more economies and lives? 20 or 30 countries isnt enough? He single handedly destroyed the education system of New Orleans right before he died, Friedmans last middle finder to the none-rich of the world, you think that a man like him, who policies directly made tens of million world wide from Russia and Latin America to East Asia into poverty, is a man worth living?
175 million americans are under-employed, but property tax (and other taxes) will rise to steal any income that is made. Higher wages = higher taxation. People - it's called "theft", and theft is bad. It will eliminate the WHOLE human race if allowed to continue. It guarantees that the retards will control quality of life. Read "The Doozie". amazon, by GH
Razzle, no, not really cuz you are falling into the trap of only looking at 1 side of it. If the companies are forced by govt to pay more than the productivity of the worker then it will go out of business and ALL the workers will be out of work. All of the money going into & out of the corp is also expanding the economy just like the baker buying the wheat from the farmer who buys a tractor, etc. But govt giving $ is NO net gain cuz $ was taken FROM someone who also was also consuming.
@XFuncCaRteR I don't think there is anything wrong with becoming big as long as it's done fairly, i.e. no bail-outs or help from the Fed. Besides there is no such thing as too big to fail. Without innovation, stagnation & regression eventually occur.
Cheerios, whose responsibility is it to make sure YOU have a comfortable life??? If someone doesn't want to live poor, it is their responsibility to GIVE value to someone that meets or exceeds whatever amount of money YOU THINK equates to comfortable,
Companies hire people to do certain tasks that need doing. Is it YOUR responsibility to pay a lawn man $50k/yr to mow ur lawn 1x /wk? It is not a corp duty to pay any more than the task is WORTH to them. U r free to not do it or do it, u choose
@mba2ceo Unions enhance exploitation. A good non-union manager cannot "logically" enforce good work habits with unions. They have too many "rules" that prevent that. The workers are protected from proper discipline.
Unions are just as greedy as any corp they want power and your money.Ask you union boss's if they will drop your dues if they pass this idiotic health care ,bet they wont .Find out your union boss's pay ,bet it blows yours right out of the water .See who has the better health car your uni boss's or you .What about retirement you or them .They are set up as a corporation for a reason check out your they aint so Lily white .
@truckdawg43 Yes, but I vote in my union. I don't vote for my idiot boss who pockets money by making bad decisions. I'll take democracy over tyranny anyday. It isn't a free country when the company you work for tells you what you can do outside of work.
@Anglagard1 Here's a little test for your beloved Union they are so democratic .Tell them that you dont want your dues to go to the Lib Dem party in any way .See how far that gets ya .Take a stand on something they are against ,you can vote how ever ya please .I dont give a hoot ! Just get their reaction .Unions had a great purpose now they seem to be out for the power and money except for trade Unions Iron workers elec workers .Teamsters and Hoffa gave us Ray Lahood that sumbitch got my job
@truckdawg43 I've been telling my union not to support the Democratic party for 20 years. They've been far worse than the Republicans in terms of hurting unions (at least until Governor Walker came around). My government makes a lot of bad decisions, but I don't feel it is my right to withhold my taxes or succede from the country. So here's a little test for you. The next time your country leads you into a decade long war, tell them you don't believe in it and aren't going to pay for it.
@Anglagard1 Well number 1 I have to believe in it or why have I got two nephews in it number two its your Union dues you get a say in where it goes .You can demand that it go where you want and it is only a small portion I am talking about .You have other obligations in there also ,your retirement ,health,and paying the Unions them self's .Dont let them kid you they are making good money on your back All I am saying is try it see their reaction .Union org labeled me a trouble maker I smile
@Anglagard1 Well number 1 I have to believe in it or why have I got two nephews in it number two its your Union dues you get a say in where it goes .You can demand that it go where you want and it is only a small portion I am talking about .You have other obligations in there also ,your retirement ,health,and paying the Unions them self's .Dont let them kid you they are making good money on your back All I am saying is try it see their reaction .Union org labeled me a trouble maker I smile
@ezimm8744 A monopoly can't force YOU to do something or spend your money in a specific way. If they try then quit your job. That's all unions do. They force companies by gun point to pay employees "fair" wages & in most cases they force a wage on them that doesn't equal the quality of labor received. They can't get fired so there's no competition therefore no incentive to be a better worker. Wages would be more accurately appointed if the wage reflected your human capitol in the market place.
FACT: Labor unions create rigid labor markets. Rigid labor markets create long-term structural unemployment. And long term unemployment screws the black working class. What labor unions do is fuck the black working class to benefit the white middle class.
Politics and unions aside, all us workers want is a fair and decent wage so we can have a comfortable and sustainable lifestyle. Who wants to live poor as church mice? Corporations are greedy moneywhores and use workers as pawns. And yes, unions are not perfect either.
@cheeriosinabowl What happened to bettering yourself & gaining human capitol by whatever advantage you could possibly find to put yourself on the path to be worth what you want to be paid instead of just expecting it a certain wage and demanding it? This is the frame of mind we create when we start giving every kid on the play ground 1st place trophies. It's not the corporations that are greedy and hold you back It's the failed government policies that restrict how capitalism fully works.
... it's quite obvious that you are very young, your post is very idealistic. Wait till you get older and life has slapped you in the mouth a few times, and you will change your viewpoints on life and work. Your comment on giving every kid on the playground 1st place trophies has nothing to do with what I wrote. One more point --- BOTH CORPORATIONS AND GOVERNMENTS ARE GREEDY ... AND POWERFUL. Never forget that. Very few of us work at "dream jobs".
I'd suggest that all those against unions think hard about the benefits they take for granted today. Also, historical precedent would suggest that unions are not the economic cancer they're portrayed as. I make no claim that union membership alone contributed to the economic growth of the post war era but its worth noting that America's economy grew most when union membership was highest [6 of the 9 years with +10% growth after WWII occurred when union membership exceeded 30%]
But the unions consequently keep weaker people outside of the labor market and thaths creates unemployment and poverty. Maybe we still can have growth but is the benefits of unions worth all those people forced to live in poverty because of it?
people who say friedman doesnt know what he was talking about can be refuted by a quote of his own "if you had cancer would you refuse to be operated on by a doctor who had never had cancer himself"
This is a guy who has never worked in a coal mine or factory. He's never been forced to work a double shift in a physically challenging job. He's never had an employer lay him off or force him to do more work for less money. This guy is a tenured professor who has never done real work in his life. He and many others have benefitted tremendously from the work of labor unions. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you.
@TheShaniqua1992 So? Even if that's true, lot's of people have summer jobs. I used to be a paper carrier, it was a shit job, I shouldn't have taken it, and the newspaper paying the shit wage should be ashamed of themselves. There are plenty of employers out there who want you to give them your labor for next-to-nothing.
This guy is scum he wants us back in the days when tradespeople were treated like slaves, worked 12 hours a day, 6 days a week with no benefits. He envisions a society where the rich trample on the poor and exploit them for profit. This is a man you people revere?
I really don't want to get in another debate with an objectivist. If you really want to, then first some ground rules, be civil, and don't play the nazi/communist card. Otherwise no way.
If it's the demise of labor unions in the US then it is the demise of its middle class as well. All of our current economic woes can be directly attributed to the insane thinking of Milton Friedman. Loss of jobs in the US? Thank Friedman. Wage stagnation? Thank Friedman. Pure insanity. I find it funny he started to realize the emergence of the corporate state near the end of his life but could never come to fully realize how absolutely wrong he was in his flat earth thinking.
Yes unions are the devil. I should quit my union job and go back to making minimum wage as a college grad! Turn off Glen Beck, you people are turning into brainwashed idiots.
Oh yes! Let's abolish trade unions and all government regulation! Let's go back to the days when 3 year olds where chained to machines for 16 hours a day! What a moron.
@wikiporno I think what britishbroom is getting at, is that people have generally always worked a lot until relatively recently in human history. The 19th century wasn't fun (in comparison with today) but that's because the whole world was poorer then. Absolutely nothing could give those people the standard of living we have today. The ordinary worker in the USA/UK 150 years ago would seem poor now, but they would have been better-off than the ordinary workers in most parts of the world.
@saundersDave11 Actually, to be in line with inflation the minimum wage needs to be around $15/hr. Raising minimum wage to $20 would actually be ideal. I think your trying to come from the supply side of the economic world which doesn't work. Flat out. It's money in the hands of people who actually buy things other than Rolls Royces and private airplanes which is what churns an economy. Demand side is the way to go...
@karkha2 It is not something that could ever be calculated, because the cost of living varies largely from one area of the country to another. Here in the UK, things are much cheaper in the North than in the South of the country, so a "one-size-fits-all" minimum wage simply cannot be applied. In the last recession, 28,000 businesses in the UK went bust; many were paying the minimum wage and they STILL went bankrupt!
@AroundSun true, but meaningless to point out. The point of unions monopolizing labor power is to counter corporate monopolies when other market or political forces will not.
but i'm not sure of the relevance of this video today except as historical interest. friedman and his ilk did succeed in completely destroying the unions over the course of the latter half of the century, the results of their efforts can be judged right now if anyone cares to make their own decision.
@nerfmyaccount "The point of unions monopolizing labor power is to counter corporate monopolies when other market or political forces will not." But free market monopolies are a fantasy. They only have as much money as you give them, and in a free market, money is not POWER. So what I said is not meaningless to point out because most people assume "OH YEA!, IM FOR THE WORKERS AND DOWN WITH BUSINESS!" When this really makes no sense at all. Just a bunch of slogans and cliches for votes
@Cornampoo You have more control over a company than you do over the federal government. Money can not be used to INFLUENCE in a free market. It can only be used to vote for goods and services at their quality and price.
@AroundSun "The point of unions monopolizing labor power is to counter corporate monopolies when other market or political forces will not." - Sounds logical, but also keep in the threat of an unholy alliance of union bosses with corporate bosses, much like the unholy alliance of bankers & politicians that exists today. Like I said in my previous posts, if you want to unionize then let it be voluntary and let it be without union bosses.
@jaeLAX23 Corporations are only threatening and have power/turn into monopolies when the GOVERNMENT BACKS THEM through price controls, zoning, and regulatory bodies that wind up serving the very interests they were meant to regulate.
@AroundSun Yes I agree, and unions IF run properly can serve as a check against that. As is stands right now the unions are just run by a bunch of thugs. You can't deny that.
@jaeLAX23 But you can organize collectively voluntarily without creating a union. People can collectively bargain without closing labor markets because someone isn't in a union. It is just an artificial protection which hurts consumers and non union workers in the long run.
@AroundSun Oh I totally agree. But others here will not have it any other way, they either fear thinking and acting for themselves, or they are just too flat out lazy. So I try my best to meet them half way.
@AroundSun Monopolies with no power whatsoever since the free trade bullshit came in and most jobs went out to cheap foreign labor. That and the fact big business has the finances to weather any strike action with ease now that they avoid paying taxes (in some cases completely) due to their buying of politicians, who create the tax cuts and loopholes for them to exploit (along with their employees). The working class is screwed and Freidman is a big part of why as he had Reagans ear in the 80's.
@Spentastic Monpolies with no power whatsoever? The free trade bullshit? Friedman somehow supporting the buying of politicians? Your incoherent babble tells me not only are you a historical and economic illiterate, but also an uninformed uneducated double talking liberal democrat. Just stop talking.
@AroundSun "There is one and only one social responsibility of business -- to use its resources and engage in activities designed to increase its profits."
Milton Friedman.
You can't defend this quote if you have a heart beating in your chest.
@Spentastic The reason we have food to eat isnt because farmers are nice people. it is because they can earn a profit growing food. You are under this assumption that we can force everyone to be nice people LMAO!!
@AroundSun The longest surviving cultures and societies have been those that have been willing to look after each other. Just look at Polynesian cultures or the Amazonian indian cultures for example. They share what they have with each other and their societies and cultures have lasted for thousands of years. Empires throughout history which rely on greed, force and coersion always fail. Slavery breeds contempt for the master. People, including small business and farmers aren't happy right now.
@Spentastic the cultures you cite are incredibly weak and unstable because of their lack of surplus wealth. they also experienced famine, something unheard of in developed nations with free economies. the amazonian and polynesians, because they were collectivists, had weak, fragile societies based on superstition and subistence, and never had protection against the whims of nature nor did they have rule of law.
@CellphoneProfitInc And according to the concepts of laissez faire economy that everyone assumes can work, would demand that we shouldn't have bailed out any of the companies that failed. And in order for that ideal to even function is to assume that all dealings are honest and upfront. Personally I feel that any regulation of the economy as it stands are improperly enacted and enforced. Simple argument is to look into the Derivatives market, Arguably the worst kind of "Credit card" system.
@CellphoneProfitInc They have still survived for thousands of years and to be honest if it was a choice between growing up poor, hopeless and even worse homeless in the west or live in a tribe with thousands of years of culture who all worked with each other for the benefit of ourselves and each other, despite the wars, famines, injuries and illness that occasionally happen I would choose that life instead of living out of a dumpster in an inner city alleyway without hesitation.
@Spentastic they have survived amidst drudgery, superstition and the uncertainty and fear of hunter gatherer economies. they also lived without running water, sewage systems, air conditioning, antibiotics or citizens rights (all luxuries of developed, industrialized Western countries). the only people who live out of dumpsters in the developed world are the truly lazy and those with a lack of any capacity to work a basic job for any amount of money. but by all means, go live in a tribe. enjoy.
@Spentastic rather a dumpster than a hovel in the middle of a jungle full of dangerous animals, scarcity of food, and a lack of modern medicine or air conditioning. enjoy!
@AroundSun Labor Unions are not an enforced entity, as they only exist in a 10% area of today's workforce. They have no lockdown on any industry where alternatives are available. If you know of one I'm eager to learn of it, but to the best of my knowledge there is no profession that any Union has control of.
@DREwestcoast I respect your opinion, but there's plenty of personally run construction and home improvement entrepreneurs in that line of work, Unions just seem more prominent in that area for a few reason, higher risk skilled laborers, and they also generally have a higher enrollment of skilled veterans [ Up-to 30 or more years of experience in specific fields.]So a good source of highly skilled professionals. Unfortunately like any organization they are not immune to corruption.
There was a time in America when unions were necessary, today,,2010 however, unions have become much like the political bureaucrats they bargin with, lying,cheating,stealing,overpaid,overbloated,overrated, top heavy lobbists who espouse a type of communistic political ideology. Unions should go the way of American manufacturing...going,going.GONE.
@xxbobdeexx I'd say unions have and always will have a place, in the same way a corporation has and always will, however, remove it's legal rights and both of them will go back to serving their proper functions (organizing labour and capital).
@irishrov Milton Friedman worked to end The Draft. He fought for Voluntary Service and proposed it to Nixon. So be glad your ass aint in Afganistan, drinking 80 degree water.
As far as i'm aware, the only thing Friedman ever got right was his support for abolishing the Fed.
Its strange that he should support is closer and not realise his hypocricy. The Fed is a private corporation that answers to its shareholders (bankers), not an 'independant' arm of the government.
Surely this should have highlighted how greed and submission to the will of the shareholders is so inherently devastating, thanks to the motivations and systemic corruption of influence.
No one has endorsed 'ending the secret ballot.' To describe the card bill in that manner shows you are either more interested in rhetoric than reality or that you are confused.
Milton Friedman was an evil scumfuck. He is writhing in hell as I type.
I loathe everything right-wing. I will till the day I drop. Right-wingers are the scum of the Earth, sucking the life out of the working people of the world; the people who create the wealth that the right-wing enjoys.
Fuck Milton Friedman. He was scum. His neoliberal economic programs are responsible for the misery of untold millions in developing countries around the world.
@bapyou I applaud you. I will piss on Milton's fucking grave too. Fuck Milton Friedman. I understand his love for freedom, but freedom doesn't mean the freedom to fuck everybody then benefit yourself. So fuck friedman. Spit on his FUCKING grave. Fuck friedman. Fuck him. He should be ashamed of himself.
@solidysnake1 "Milton Friedman ... should be ashamed of himself."
You ascribe to Milton Friedman qualities that he never had. Fascists have no shame. And shamelessness is a basic tenet of fascism. Look at Hitler. Look at Mussolini. Look at Pinochet. Look at Francisco Franco. Each was a shameless egoist, tyrant and murderer who, at every turn, sided with the wealthy moneyed class of their respective country. Hannah Arendt said it best: fascists represent "the banality of evil."
@bapyou Friedman also sided with the money class of USA. Friedman is evil, his theory is flawed, if he ever was in position of power like Hitler, he would put USA back into the feudal age. Fuck Friedman, I hope you will know the truth.
@solidysnake1 Yes. I agree. In my book, Friedman is the #1 scumfuck of all time. His theories have proved to be disastrous wherever and whenever they've been implemented. The problem is, members of nearly every economics department in colleges and universities across the country spout Friedman's theories.
@bapyou Friedman is the mouthpiece of the American capitalist class and the American government that is allied with the capitalist. Friedman is just some little lick ass fucker. ECONOMICS IS NOT AN EXACT SCIENCE, when an academic field is not exact like chemistry, engineering, or physics, the academic field became the MOUTHPIECE of the state. hell, even biology was biased in USSR, because soviet scientists disagreed with evolution(for obvious ideological crash with communism)
@solidysnake1 LOL don't you understand that Hitler and feudalism were the precise opposites of what Friedman espoused? Like the man himself once said, he's on your side - you're not. You words are senseless outrage and you don't even understand why you say the things you do. Pitiable.
Thank Ronald Reagan for the demise of unions in the US. His admin deliberately did not enforce labor and union laws. He placed an anti-union lawyer in charge of the Dept of Labor. Ann Coulter's father decertified the Phelps-Dodge union in Arizona under Reagan, putting families out in the street. Milton Friedman, in my estimation, is as close to the anti-Christ as a person can get.
@bapyou Unions are scum and single handedly made Britain a third world nation in the 70s i.e. the era of champagne socialists. What Thatcher did was necessary to restore prosperity to Britain. And again thanks to Brown, the economy is in the dumps again. The only thing the Unions ever helped create was stagflation.
Hey! It's the old asshole bonjovi himself! What the fuck's up you right-wing cunt?
"Unions are scum and single handedly made Britain a third world nation in the 70s
In America, the period of greatest economic parity and greatest economic boom correlates exactly with the time period during which union membership was at all time high (1950s/60s).
When workers have no redress, they have no power. This equates with less wealth for workers. Less wealth = economic bust.
@bapyou Strange how you give credit to the unions for (in your words) the greatest economic boom during the 1950's/60s.
Even someone who knew very little about economics could have deduced that the US's economic boom during this period might have been attributed to the fact that we were the only economy left standing after ww2.
"strange how you give credit to the unions for the greatest economic boom during the 1950's/60s."
Excuse me: What I wrote was the 50s/60s were a time period during which economic parity was at an all time high. Economic parity -- a more equitable distribution of wealth -- allowed the middle class to balloon. This was true in Britain and France as well. So your idea that the economic boom occurred because the US was "the only economy left standing after ww2" is specious.
"I thought you wrote there was a correlation between union membership & America's economic boom."
Tthere certainly was a correlation between union membership & good economic times. When workers have more money to spread around, the economy hums. Also taxes on the wealthy were much higher then.
During Reagan's time in contrast, with his so-called trickle-down theory, the wealthy simply squirreled away the financial gains they made. Wealth trickled up and the middle class shrank.
@bapyou Well then that's where we disagree. Post WW2 all of the major industrial power's economies were crippled or destroyed. Given the debt that we imposed on them through the lend/lease act and the Marshal plan, also furthered to stagnate their economies while boosting ours. In fact, it is the very reason why the world economy became dependent on the US economy and established the US currency as the world standard. It would be incredulous to believe that these factors played no role.
@bapyou Wars used to be GREAT for the economy.Ask yourself why this isn't so anymore.Follow the profits.It's exactly what's wrong with Miltie's School-GREED.It's that greed that allowed no regulations to be paid for through lobbying.Votes are bought and paid for by lying to voters as a result of greedy corporations making more money than God.
@IWLocal8 greed is a flawed by Milton friedman. Greed is only acceptable when two parties have equal power. When the power is skewed, greed obviously favors the powerful and repress the less powerful.
@solidysnake1 In a free market greed is tempered by risk. It is only when risky behavior is subsidized by government regulation (bail outs, subsidies, etc) that greed can get out of control as even private insurance firms (without regulatory protections, that is) have to temper their greed with risk.
Econ is not science at all. It is empiricism, logic, and philosophy.
You would do well to forget Friedman (Keynes and Krugman too) Think Menger, Mises, Hayak, and Rothbard.
@lexilicious74 it is widely known that risk has not kept the greedy from crushing entire economies. Your idea is based on the assumption that all players in an economy have the same power. If a huge bank decides to take part in very risky business to maximize short-term profit, the institution as well as the people involved know that they are powerful enough to survive if it all goes down. The workers, on the other end, will suffer because of the bankers' attitude, but have no protection.
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I love it when a man who has NEVER worked a day as anything but a theoretician and professor claims he can speak on unions and their real world implications. Harm? the unions have provided for, among other things; Maternity leave, Superannuation, Workers compensation, Minimum wage (obviously debatable), 8 hour work day, paid annual leave, occupational health and safety, end to child labour, ... the list goes on and on. Friedman has given us... what?
@irishrov So you are saying that college professors don't work.
Look I never built a car or played football, but I have an opinion about both. This is where your argument falls to the ground.
If you watched the whole video, you would have heard that Unions Used to provide for things. But the reality is today, unions are no longer associated with a positive workplace environment. Instead they are considered brutal. Continuing on, Unions endorse ending the secret ballot!!!
@beaglelikethedog regarding opinions, I certainly don't hold it against anyone for holding an opinion. I think its safe to say though i'd put more faith in the opinion of someone who has actually experienced the situation he/she is commenting on. everyone's entitled to an opinion its only when people place so much faith in the opinion of one person who really has no "real life" experience in the matter that I question the validity of the statement.
A perfect example to bring up a valued point that Professor Friedman once made regarding qualification to speak to a subject .... went something like ... no one is saying that someone who has cancer should not seek treatment from a Doctor who he himself has never had cancer.
Secondly ... someone not belonging to a trade union or the like not being able to offer an educated and intelligent comment on them is dubious. It is often the fish out of water that first notices the ocean.
@irishrov So if you had cancer you wouldn't accept treatment from a doctor who hasn't had cancer then? Because without the doctor having cancer before they would have very little idea of how to fix it right? Or if a mechanic never had the exact problem with his car you wouldn't let him fix yours because even though he studies it he doesn't really know what he's doing right? You don't have to go through something to understand it.
@irishrov Coming from a recently laid off industrial worker, I can tell you that I wish unions had less power than they do. I think they served a purpose when workers needed relief but now the time has come to step back a little and allow business to run
@xtremejohnny69 Yeah, let's crush thuggish unions. It's high time people like you compete with industrial workers in Cambodia for $2 per day. This is the free market working it's delicious magic. Agree?
Oh, and while your at it, give up you medical benefits, safety standards, overtime pay, workers comp, paid vacation, and environmental protections.
@logtype47 Like I said they served a purpose when workers were exploited. But when they got the governement involved and got laws passed for workers rights that's where the shit hit the fan. Worker's rights are between the worker and the employer. I actually saw me being laid off as an opportunity to go back to school and improve my employment opportunities which wouldn't be possible in communist countries. And when you say people like me..what'd you mean? Are you refering to blue collar workers
I am anti-union because I am pro-capitalism
RRNYC1998 2 weeks ago
Results? The greatest growth in the standard of living of any society has occurred in places where markets are allowed to work largely unhindered.
An employer should have the right to terminate an employee for any reason and at any time, as long as the employment contract allows it. You can't force an employer to hire or retain an employee against his/her will. The employer owns the business. Employment must be a voluntary transaction in order to protect private property rights.
fishbinger 1 month ago
Keep living in your "free-market" fantasy land fishmonger, fishbinger.. whatever the hell your name is. I LOOK AT RESULTS. The results of the methodical destruction of unions in this country has been devastating for working-class people! Real hourly wages have been totally stagnant or in most cases going DOWN for decades, since the late 70's. A working person can now be fired for any reason OR NO REASON AT ALL. In most states there isn't even any labor relations board! Reality says you're lying!
CosmicFork 1 month ago
@CosmicFork I'm not anti-union but destruction of unions have nothing to do with the american decline. In fact, they helped it happen. US automakers got comfortable with no outside competition and stopped innovating. The Japanese come and decimate them (US consumers long loyal to US brands cant afford breakdowns), and so the UAW lobbies to bail out the failed american auto co.s for the sake of their jobs. Unions are great when theres no competition, and thats bad for the consumer.
martydrooo 3 weeks ago
@martydrooo American car companies were crushed by Japanese car companies that used union labor. Unions on both sides of the equation cancel each other out, therefore unions had nothing to do with why Toyota, Honda, etc. won out.. Also, the government doesn't listen to unions nearly as much as it listens to corporations because they don't have nearly as much money to spend on politicians. Bailouts were given because the corporate masters demanded them.
Anglagard1 3 weeks ago
@Anglagard1 Yes and no. Japs, Koreans, and krauts all have their factories in RTW states. Prior to that, unionized Jap. workers made far less than US counterparts (in the 70s/80s, but not the 90s). It's not a question about labor costs, though. The AFL-CIO lobby, far larger than any corporate lobby, never let any auto company fail; Rewarding failure. US co.s never had to compete at first, JP cos had to compete from day 1. Bad pc chip makers fail, bad car co.s get bailouts since the 70s.
martydrooo 2 weeks ago
@martydrooo Those nice unions jobs were for the most part gone before GM's most recent failing, most parts being made in Mexico and other countries by non-union labor. If AFL-CIO had the power you suggest they do, they never would have let those jobs go overseas to non-union workers.
Anglagard1 2 weeks ago
That's all well and good for a discussion that doesn't involve facts or logic. The truth of the matter, however, is that employers hire fewer people when they have to pay workers more than the equilibrium wage. This is ECON 101. Labor is bought and sold in a market. Please try reading once in a while.
I'd rather live in a society in which people could work hard and be paid for their accomplishments, instead of demanding higher pay by holding a metaphorical gun to the head of their employer.
fishbinger 1 month ago
This guy below me: "fishbinger" reminds me of a quote from The Robber Baron, Jay Gould who said: "I can hire one half of the working class to kill the other half!" You don't have to wonder which half... (which side he'd be on). You're pathetic fishbinger, and a perfect example of why the working class in this country will continue to be TREATED LIKE DOGSHIT!!!
CosmicFork 1 month ago
I worked for a union and made a decent wage. Then, the union was busted and wages were cut and half and we did more work. I barely made enough money to eat. I said fuck it. I quit and not stay at a local mission and eat free meals there. I am doing what philosopher Bertrand Russel wanted the worker to do, just quit making money for the rich man. I hope I am judged poorly. I know I will be by the general public. I'm not working for the Ayn Rand idiots any longer.
JayGatsbyOdysseus 1 month ago 5
I'm all in favor of voluntary and peaceful unions. When they are coercive, those responsible should be prosecuted.
ElJefer 2 months ago
Why are those who are pro-union so frequently anti-monopoly in rhetoric? Why, for instance, should one union unanimously represent the workers at several supermarket chains in my area?
Another question: how do unions help with unemployment or this nebulous "living wage" demand? Unions, with pay scales based on seniority (based on time spent in the union, paying dues), discourage the hiring of anyone with union seniority.
worldofdraculas 2 months ago
The Chicago Transit Authority ran up a 217 million dollar deficit. Between 80 and 90 million was spent last year due to CTA workers calling off (the fill-in worker often gets time and a half pay for filling in and the worker who calls off gets paid). The workers are protected because of the unions and this ridiculousness continues. If labor unions want broad support from the American people they need to fight to fix these issues rather than fighting to defend this type of behavior.
RomeAndMarty4Ever 2 months ago
Let's talk about Friedman's ideological consequences on the real world as seen in Reaganomics. The effort to undermine and destroy Labor Unions peaked in the "Reagan Years". I lived through those years, and only Margaret Thatcher succeeded in smashing down workers in England better. Managements goal has always been to undermine the basic rights guaranteed by The 1935 Wagner Act, or National Labor Relations Act. The basic method of this Anti-Union War is illegally firing thousands of workers!
CosmicFork 2 months ago 24
@CosmicFork you do know that in england businesses were not allowed to use power for three straight days due to labour disputes, garbage was no picked up for days at a time, public water and sewage maintenance were effectively stopped. margaret thatchers policies to privatize certain sections of utilities and services allowed for business to thrive in england, labour unions will always extort themselves out of work. and now with a global economy its even more relevant.
rudesskeys 2 months ago
@rudesskeys Well, I can see from your comment, that you are Anti-Union! I don't know what happened in England. I do know that in America: The Reagan Administration made it very clear that it would NOT enforce the law, (The National Labor Relations Act). So that was Carte Blanche to employers, (business) to just carry out criminal actions and engage in thousands of illegal firings. This illegal distruction of unions was a major factor in lowering wages and increasing the gap between rich & poor!
CosmicFork 2 months ago
@CosmicFork look i am just for the liberty of contract. private unions have taken serious cutbacks but the grossly overpaid public sector employees have still gotten pay raises, still receive health coverage for their families, still receive at minimum 75% pension for life. we cant afford this! i live in a very wealthy area on long island (suffolk county) and it has become obvious to people that the police and teachers are the higher earners in the middle class, yet i pay the taxes to fund them
rudesskeys 2 months ago
@rudesskeys That's interesting, because I've had the same experience, (my property taxes on my small house are becoming unbearable.) I'm just saying that the concept of total deregulation, (which Friedman pushed) has had some terrible consequences for working people. The idea was to deregulate everything, (the airlines, the phone company, the banks, the utilities, but, ESPECIALLY let's deregulate labor!) So, in the spirit of deregulation, Reagan declared "open season" for Union Busters.
CosmicFork 2 months ago
@CosmicFork absolutely i agree with you that total deregulation would implode, thats the emphasis on contracts. minimum standards are in the governments business, but pay regulation, universal maternity leave, stress leave, and the works are just costly because instead of it being a negotiation between the two parties there is the fringe government in the middle making it more expensive for both sides to just get a simple agreement.
rudesskeys 2 months ago
@CosmicFork Define "illegally firing thousands of workers". If I employ someone, should it not be within my rights to terminate their employment at any time?
frase32 2 months ago
@frase32 Well prior to 1935 (Wagner Act) employers had the right to just fire workers simply because they had enrolled in unions. Before the law, employers had liberty to spy upon, question, punish, black list, and fire anyone who even breathed "union" under their breath. So, The NLRA law is considered the "Magna Carta" of American labor, because it ensures at least a some basic rights for workers. The Wagner Act drove Business berserk! They thought they had the country by the throat!
CosmicFork 2 months ago 3
@frase32 No, not without good cause and reason.Would it be in the worker's rights to strike outside your store.Treat people well and you will be treated well!!!
themetalgod21 1 month ago
FACT: UNIONS = living wage - safety - dignity - professional growth.
mba2ceo 2 months ago 24
@mba2ceo Putting the word "fact" in front of a claim doesn't make it true. Show evidence for your beliefs
ElJefer 2 months ago
@mba2ceo Fact: A living wage is a subjective term. Businesses should not be held to the subjective will of a mob of employees. Professional growth, so long as you sell your soul and become a part of the mob. I don't see how you could call a protection racket dignified. It is anything but. Extortion != Dignity.
bweazel 1 month ago
@mba2ceo FACT: We spend twice as much on public schools as we used to in 1970 because of union contracts and the students are receiving essentially the same education.
kriskats19 1 month ago
@mba2ceo before the turn of the last century the poverty level was around 90-95%. Then we had the industrial revolution which lowered production costs. This allowed companies like Ford to pay their factory workers more in wages than any other country in the world. This all occurred before labor unions existed. Milton Friedman was right on this one.
Danlovesmakinvids 1 month ago
@mba2ceo I'll drink to that
1963danno 1 month ago
@mba2ceo I would call it nationalization, because the safety part comes from the federal government when the companies go bankrupt. Also manufacturing jobs are all going overseas because they don't want to deal with unions, so you might be safe in your job, but the next American loses a job. A lot of things in life suck, but we cant put it all on the other guy.
tadaa11 1 month ago
@mba2ceo FACT: Unions → Wage Inflation → Fewer Hires → Fewer Opportunities for Poor/Unskilled Workers
fishbinger 1 month ago
@mba2ceo
-Unions create a barriers to entry in the labour market for young or unskilled workers, raising wages within the union, creating unemployment for those outside.
-Unions make wages stickier so increases unemployment and the collapse of businesses in a recession.
-Where wages are driven highest is where the replacement of labour with capital is most strongly incentivised. Capital is diverted from where it is most needed to labour cartels (unions), creating unemployment outside the cartel.
StatelessLiberty 4 weeks ago
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@StatelessLiberty (Continued)
-After tax profit as a percentage of GDP has only been around 6%, scottgrannis.blogspot (dot) com/2009/11/more-good-news-on-corporate-profits.html
Yet real compensation per hour has increased well beyond that:
research.stlouisfed (dot) org/fred2/series/COMPRNFB
It is literally impossible then for unions to be responsible rising compensation.
StatelessLiberty 4 weeks ago
Utter tosh. The man is not a worker so he has no need for unions.Unions are to assist workers get a better deal for their members and to that end they are evoled.
grandslam1998 2 months ago
@grandslam1998 what'S so terrible about the workers deciding by themselves if the 'deal is worth it, instead of paying a third party to do it?...
DREwestcoast 2 months ago
@DREwestcoast Unity is strength! TU represent and defend workers and try to impove wages and conditions. Most officials of the TU have the skills to deal with management and can also call on lawers to assist, esp where there are accident claims
grandslam1998 2 months ago
@grandslam1998 yeah, and they certainly take their cut for it, most of the time these so called 'worker's strike' are being fueled by Union leaders wanting to enrich themselves, and the workers actually lose some of their conditions, so no thanks, I also don't like unions thinking they can boss people around and decide what pay you'll get
DREwestcoast 2 months ago
@DREwestcoast What makes you think that unions decide what pay workers you will get, It is employers who decide that. Unions try to increase the wages and conditions of workers,that is why they exist. Trade unions leaders in the UK are elected and are there by the will of the members.Striking is the last resort.
grandslam1998 2 months ago
Friedman is an apologist for management, that's IT. His economic ideas are flawed and failed. All of his apologists couldn't make it through anything beyond Econ 101 if they tried.
MEpianist 2 months ago
The effort to undermine and destroy Labor Unions peaked in "The Reagan Years". This little corporate puke Friedman was the intellectual genesis behind "Deregulation." Deregulation was suppose to bring about a "Free Market" Economic Utopia. Yeah, Not Hardly! The masses are weaker, alienated and more uneducated, while the elites get richer, more powerful and more repressive every minute! The wealth in our country is more concentrated than ever before in our lifetimes! Friedman = Corporate Whore.
CosmicFork 3 months ago
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Read The Law by Bastiat (free download on the 'net.) then watch The Agenda (Amazon). It is the youth of this nation that will inherit the bills this administration is running up at warp speed. RESTORE AMERICA 2012 RON PAUL
America is not a democracy, it is a republic.
self-responsibility+self-reliability+self-sufficiency=self respect
possumpistol 3 months ago
its too bad this man isn't alive today.
lvll138inrs 3 months ago 2
@lvll138inrs Why, so he can ruin more economies and lives? 20 or 30 countries isnt enough? He single handedly destroyed the education system of New Orleans right before he died, Friedmans last middle finder to the none-rich of the world, you think that a man like him, who policies directly made tens of million world wide from Russia and Latin America to East Asia into poverty, is a man worth living?
dave19941000 3 months ago
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175 million americans are under-employed, but property tax (and other taxes) will rise to steal any income that is made. Higher wages = higher taxation. People - it's called "theft", and theft is bad. It will eliminate the WHOLE human race if allowed to continue. It guarantees that the retards will control quality of life. Read "The Doozie". amazon, by GH
freemindsdaily 3 months ago
Razzle, no, not really cuz you are falling into the trap of only looking at 1 side of it. If the companies are forced by govt to pay more than the productivity of the worker then it will go out of business and ALL the workers will be out of work. All of the money going into & out of the corp is also expanding the economy just like the baker buying the wheat from the farmer who buys a tractor, etc. But govt giving $ is NO net gain cuz $ was taken FROM someone who also was also consuming.
theTXwolfman 3 months ago
"But free market monopolies are a fantasy."
This statement is a fantasy.
Free markets open up a game. Eventually one or two players dominate (for example, Google), destroying all competition.
Then it becomes a monopoly.
XFuncCaRteR 3 months ago
@XFuncCaRteR I don't think there is anything wrong with becoming big as long as it's done fairly, i.e. no bail-outs or help from the Fed. Besides there is no such thing as too big to fail. Without innovation, stagnation & regression eventually occur.
jaeLAX23 3 months ago
Cheerios, whose responsibility is it to make sure YOU have a comfortable life??? If someone doesn't want to live poor, it is their responsibility to GIVE value to someone that meets or exceeds whatever amount of money YOU THINK equates to comfortable,
Companies hire people to do certain tasks that need doing. Is it YOUR responsibility to pay a lawn man $50k/yr to mow ur lawn 1x /wk? It is not a corp duty to pay any more than the task is WORTH to them. U r free to not do it or do it, u choose
theTXwolfman 4 months ago
@theTXwolfman dont you think that just maybe if the lowest class of people are paid more it will expand the consumerbase?
MrRazzeldazzel88 3 months ago
FACT: UNIONS prevent exploitation
mba2ceo 4 months ago
@mba2ceo Unions enhance exploitation. A good non-union manager cannot "logically" enforce good work habits with unions. They have too many "rules" that prevent that. The workers are protected from proper discipline.
granolajoe43 4 months ago
@granolajoe43 easily rectified. Induce profit sharing and the UNION will self regulate.
mba2ceo 4 months ago
@mba2ceo shut the fuck up you propaganda tool
DREwestcoast 2 months ago
@DREwestcoast ... well this clearly show your character & intellect
mba2ceo 2 months ago
germany is doing just fine with unions
stealthgerm 5 months ago
Unions are just as greedy as any corp they want power and your money.Ask you union boss's if they will drop your dues if they pass this idiotic health care ,bet they wont .Find out your union boss's pay ,bet it blows yours right out of the water .See who has the better health car your uni boss's or you .What about retirement you or them .They are set up as a corporation for a reason check out your they aint so Lily white .
truckdawg43 5 months ago
@truckdawg43 Yes, but I vote in my union. I don't vote for my idiot boss who pockets money by making bad decisions. I'll take democracy over tyranny anyday. It isn't a free country when the company you work for tells you what you can do outside of work.
Anglagard1 4 months ago
@Anglagard1 Here's a little test for your beloved Union they are so democratic .Tell them that you dont want your dues to go to the Lib Dem party in any way .See how far that gets ya .Take a stand on something they are against ,you can vote how ever ya please .I dont give a hoot ! Just get their reaction .Unions had a great purpose now they seem to be out for the power and money except for trade Unions Iron workers elec workers .Teamsters and Hoffa gave us Ray Lahood that sumbitch got my job
truckdawg43 4 months ago
@truckdawg43 I've been telling my union not to support the Democratic party for 20 years. They've been far worse than the Republicans in terms of hurting unions (at least until Governor Walker came around). My government makes a lot of bad decisions, but I don't feel it is my right to withhold my taxes or succede from the country. So here's a little test for you. The next time your country leads you into a decade long war, tell them you don't believe in it and aren't going to pay for it.
Anglagard1 4 months ago
@Anglagard1 Well number 1 I have to believe in it or why have I got two nephews in it number two its your Union dues you get a say in where it goes .You can demand that it go where you want and it is only a small portion I am talking about .You have other obligations in there also ,your retirement ,health,and paying the Unions them self's .Dont let them kid you they are making good money on your back All I am saying is try it see their reaction .Union org labeled me a trouble maker I smile
truckdawg43 4 months ago
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@Anglagard1 Well number 1 I have to believe in it or why have I got two nephews in it number two its your Union dues you get a say in where it goes .You can demand that it go where you want and it is only a small portion I am talking about .You have other obligations in there also ,your retirement ,health,and paying the Unions them self's .Dont let them kid you they are making good money on your back All I am saying is try it see their reaction .Union org labeled me a trouble maker I smile
truckdawg43 4 months ago
Fact: UNIONS create prosperity !!!
mba2ceo 5 months ago
@mba2ceo
as do monopolies. Just ask rockefeller.
For who is the question.
Monopolies and unions should not exist.
OnlyTheWeakNeedHelp 5 months ago
@Epicnerdgasm 'import' Automobiles are made here, in the US, believe it or not. So no, they do not hold a monopoly upon the Auto industry
phantomkitsunezero 5 months ago
the difference between monopolies is that a monopoly owns the means of production and distribution
a union owns neither of these things
there is nothing stopping GM and Ford from getting together to purchase their steal in larger bulk
that is essentially all unions are doing, just collectively pooling their resources
ezimm8744 5 months ago
@ezimm8744 A monopoly can't force YOU to do something or spend your money in a specific way. If they try then quit your job. That's all unions do. They force companies by gun point to pay employees "fair" wages & in most cases they force a wage on them that doesn't equal the quality of labor received. They can't get fired so there's no competition therefore no incentive to be a better worker. Wages would be more accurately appointed if the wage reflected your human capitol in the market place.
BellaKoei 5 months ago
@BellaKoei ... YES they can !!! Hard to live without Electricity.
mba2ceo 5 months ago
FACT: Labor unions create rigid labor markets. Rigid labor markets create long-term structural unemployment. And long term unemployment screws the black working class. What labor unions do is fuck the black working class to benefit the white middle class.
LogicalFlawDetector 6 months ago
Union workers and bureaucrats are lazy and produce nothing.
BaldyV 6 months ago
Politics and unions aside, all us workers want is a fair and decent wage so we can have a comfortable and sustainable lifestyle. Who wants to live poor as church mice? Corporations are greedy moneywhores and use workers as pawns. And yes, unions are not perfect either.
cheeriosinabowl 6 months ago
@cheeriosinabowl What happened to bettering yourself & gaining human capitol by whatever advantage you could possibly find to put yourself on the path to be worth what you want to be paid instead of just expecting it a certain wage and demanding it? This is the frame of mind we create when we start giving every kid on the play ground 1st place trophies. It's not the corporations that are greedy and hold you back It's the failed government policies that restrict how capitalism fully works.
BellaKoei 5 months ago
@BellaKoei
... it's quite obvious that you are very young, your post is very idealistic. Wait till you get older and life has slapped you in the mouth a few times, and you will change your viewpoints on life and work. Your comment on giving every kid on the playground 1st place trophies has nothing to do with what I wrote. One more point --- BOTH CORPORATIONS AND GOVERNMENTS ARE GREEDY ... AND POWERFUL. Never forget that. Very few of us work at "dream jobs".
cheeriosinabowl 5 months ago
@cheeriosinabowl That's because you are not competing hard enough not because someone is greedy.
BellaKoei 5 months ago
@BellaKoei
.. don't kid yourself. The world is FULL of greedy people who want not only their share of the apple pie, but yours as well. Greed is pandemic.
cheeriosinabowl 5 months ago
I'd suggest that all those against unions think hard about the benefits they take for granted today. Also, historical precedent would suggest that unions are not the economic cancer they're portrayed as. I make no claim that union membership alone contributed to the economic growth of the post war era but its worth noting that America's economy grew most when union membership was highest [6 of the 9 years with +10% growth after WWII occurred when union membership exceeded 30%]
irishrov 7 months ago
@irishrov
But the unions consequently keep weaker people outside of the labor market and thaths creates unemployment and poverty. Maybe we still can have growth but is the benefits of unions worth all those people forced to live in poverty because of it?
unfad1ng 7 months ago
people who say friedman doesnt know what he was talking about can be refuted by a quote of his own "if you had cancer would you refuse to be operated on by a doctor who had never had cancer himself"
Dommo1992 8 months ago
This is a guy who has never worked in a coal mine or factory. He's never been forced to work a double shift in a physically challenging job. He's never had an employer lay him off or force him to do more work for less money. This guy is a tenured professor who has never done real work in his life. He and many others have benefitted tremendously from the work of labor unions. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you.
bddc201 9 months ago
@bddc201
This man worked 12 hour days for 75cents in his youth.
TheShaniqua1992 9 months ago
@TheShaniqua1992 So? Even if that's true, lot's of people have summer jobs. I used to be a paper carrier, it was a shit job, I shouldn't have taken it, and the newspaper paying the shit wage should be ashamed of themselves. There are plenty of employers out there who want you to give them your labor for next-to-nothing.
bddc201 9 months ago
@bddc201
If you do not like your job, you are free to go find another job. That is the free market.
TheShaniqua1992 9 months ago
@TheShaniqua1992 Riiiiiiight, like I can force someone to employ me. You going to pay my bills while I look for something else?
bddc201 9 months ago
@bddc201 He worked as a waiter during the early 1930s. His mom was a factory machinist.
saundersDave11 8 months ago
@saundersDave11 Then he should know better.
bddc201 8 months ago
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Fuck the UNIONs, and fuck you OBAMA!!!
UCSDEngineerDoctor 10 months ago
This guy is scum he wants us back in the days when tradespeople were treated like slaves, worked 12 hours a day, 6 days a week with no benefits. He envisions a society where the rich trample on the poor and exploit them for profit. This is a man you people revere?
glibglabgloob 10 months ago 2
I really don't want to get in another debate with an objectivist. If you really want to, then first some ground rules, be civil, and don't play the nazi/communist card. Otherwise no way.
wikiporno 11 months ago
If it's the demise of labor unions in the US then it is the demise of its middle class as well. All of our current economic woes can be directly attributed to the insane thinking of Milton Friedman. Loss of jobs in the US? Thank Friedman. Wage stagnation? Thank Friedman. Pure insanity. I find it funny he started to realize the emergence of the corporate state near the end of his life but could never come to fully realize how absolutely wrong he was in his flat earth thinking.
karkha2 1 year ago
@karkha2 thats a very interesting point of view.
It would be even more interesting to hear you attempt to back up any of those accusations.
snarfels 10 months ago
Yes unions are the devil. I should quit my union job and go back to making minimum wage as a college grad! Turn off Glen Beck, you people are turning into brainwashed idiots.
joshmx28 1 year ago
@joshmx28 you idiot if you go back and accept minimum wage it,s your own goddamn stupidity you have to blame, not the entrepreneurs.
DREwestcoast 2 months ago
Oh yes! Let's abolish trade unions and all government regulation! Let's go back to the days when 3 year olds where chained to machines for 16 hours a day! What a moron.
wikiporno 1 year ago
@wikiporno What days were those?
BritishBroom 11 months ago
@BritishBroom 19th century.
wikiporno 11 months ago
@wikiporno But not the 18th century?
BritishBroom 11 months ago
@BritishBroom What are you getting at?
wikiporno 11 months ago
@wikiporno I think what britishbroom is getting at, is that people have generally always worked a lot until relatively recently in human history. The 19th century wasn't fun (in comparison with today) but that's because the whole world was poorer then. Absolutely nothing could give those people the standard of living we have today. The ordinary worker in the USA/UK 150 years ago would seem poor now, but they would have been better-off than the ordinary workers in most parts of the world.
saundersDave11 11 months ago
@saundersDave11 Because of unionized labor, welfare, and minimum wage laws.
wikiporno 11 months ago
@wikiporno Do you think the minimum wage laws increase unemployment?
saundersDave11 11 months ago
@saundersDave11 no.
wikiporno 11 months ago
@wikiporno Then why don't we just raise the minimum wage to, say, $20 per hour, and make all those workers better off?
saundersDave11 11 months ago
@saundersDave11 Actually, to be in line with inflation the minimum wage needs to be around $15/hr. Raising minimum wage to $20 would actually be ideal. I think your trying to come from the supply side of the economic world which doesn't work. Flat out. It's money in the hands of people who actually buy things other than Rolls Royces and private airplanes which is what churns an economy. Demand side is the way to go...
karkha2 10 months ago
@karkha2 It is not something that could ever be calculated, because the cost of living varies largely from one area of the country to another. Here in the UK, things are much cheaper in the North than in the South of the country, so a "one-size-fits-all" minimum wage simply cannot be applied. In the last recession, 28,000 businesses in the UK went bust; many were paying the minimum wage and they STILL went bankrupt!
saundersDave11 10 months ago
You can't be against monopolies and be for unions at the same time. Unions are organized labor monopolies.
AroundSun 1 year ago 19
@AroundSun true, but meaningless to point out. The point of unions monopolizing labor power is to counter corporate monopolies when other market or political forces will not.
but i'm not sure of the relevance of this video today except as historical interest. friedman and his ilk did succeed in completely destroying the unions over the course of the latter half of the century, the results of their efforts can be judged right now if anyone cares to make their own decision.
nerfmyaccount 7 months ago
@nerfmyaccount "The point of unions monopolizing labor power is to counter corporate monopolies when other market or political forces will not." But free market monopolies are a fantasy. They only have as much money as you give them, and in a free market, money is not POWER. So what I said is not meaningless to point out because most people assume "OH YEA!, IM FOR THE WORKERS AND DOWN WITH BUSINESS!" When this really makes no sense at all. Just a bunch of slogans and cliches for votes
AroundSun 7 months ago 14
@AroundSun of course money is power in a free market situation. Buying power that is.
Cornampoo 4 months ago
@Cornampoo You have more control over a company than you do over the federal government. Money can not be used to INFLUENCE in a free market. It can only be used to vote for goods and services at their quality and price.
AroundSun 4 months ago
@AroundSun "The point of unions monopolizing labor power is to counter corporate monopolies when other market or political forces will not." - Sounds logical, but also keep in the threat of an unholy alliance of union bosses with corporate bosses, much like the unholy alliance of bankers & politicians that exists today. Like I said in my previous posts, if you want to unionize then let it be voluntary and let it be without union bosses.
jaeLAX23 3 months ago
@jaeLAX23 Corporations are only threatening and have power/turn into monopolies when the GOVERNMENT BACKS THEM through price controls, zoning, and regulatory bodies that wind up serving the very interests they were meant to regulate.
AroundSun 3 months ago
@AroundSun Yes I agree, and unions IF run properly can serve as a check against that. As is stands right now the unions are just run by a bunch of thugs. You can't deny that.
jaeLAX23 3 months ago
@jaeLAX23 But you can organize collectively voluntarily without creating a union. People can collectively bargain without closing labor markets because someone isn't in a union. It is just an artificial protection which hurts consumers and non union workers in the long run.
AroundSun 3 months ago
@AroundSun Oh I totally agree. But others here will not have it any other way, they either fear thinking and acting for themselves, or they are just too flat out lazy. So I try my best to meet them half way.
jaeLAX23 3 months ago
@AroundSun Monopolies with no power whatsoever since the free trade bullshit came in and most jobs went out to cheap foreign labor. That and the fact big business has the finances to weather any strike action with ease now that they avoid paying taxes (in some cases completely) due to their buying of politicians, who create the tax cuts and loopholes for them to exploit (along with their employees). The working class is screwed and Freidman is a big part of why as he had Reagans ear in the 80's.
Spentastic 5 months ago
@Spentastic Monpolies with no power whatsoever? The free trade bullshit? Friedman somehow supporting the buying of politicians? Your incoherent babble tells me not only are you a historical and economic illiterate, but also an uninformed uneducated double talking liberal democrat. Just stop talking.
AroundSun 5 months ago
@AroundSun And start FIGHTING......
Spentastic 5 months ago
@Spentastic You are arguing economic myths and fallacies that have been debunked and refuted for decades.
AroundSun 5 months ago
@AroundSun "There is one and only one social responsibility of business -- to use its resources and engage in activities designed to increase its profits."
Milton Friedman.
You can't defend this quote if you have a heart beating in your chest.
Spentastic 5 months ago
@Spentastic The reason we have food to eat isnt because farmers are nice people. it is because they can earn a profit growing food. You are under this assumption that we can force everyone to be nice people LMAO!!
AroundSun 5 months ago
@AroundSun The longest surviving cultures and societies have been those that have been willing to look after each other. Just look at Polynesian cultures or the Amazonian indian cultures for example. They share what they have with each other and their societies and cultures have lasted for thousands of years. Empires throughout history which rely on greed, force and coersion always fail. Slavery breeds contempt for the master. People, including small business and farmers aren't happy right now.
Spentastic 5 months ago
@Spentastic the cultures you cite are incredibly weak and unstable because of their lack of surplus wealth. they also experienced famine, something unheard of in developed nations with free economies. the amazonian and polynesians, because they were collectivists, had weak, fragile societies based on superstition and subistence, and never had protection against the whims of nature nor did they have rule of law.
CellphoneProfitInc 5 months ago
@CellphoneProfitInc And according to the concepts of laissez faire economy that everyone assumes can work, would demand that we shouldn't have bailed out any of the companies that failed. And in order for that ideal to even function is to assume that all dealings are honest and upfront. Personally I feel that any regulation of the economy as it stands are improperly enacted and enforced. Simple argument is to look into the Derivatives market, Arguably the worst kind of "Credit card" system.
phantomkitsunezero 5 months ago
@CellphoneProfitInc They have still survived for thousands of years and to be honest if it was a choice between growing up poor, hopeless and even worse homeless in the west or live in a tribe with thousands of years of culture who all worked with each other for the benefit of ourselves and each other, despite the wars, famines, injuries and illness that occasionally happen I would choose that life instead of living out of a dumpster in an inner city alleyway without hesitation.
Spentastic 5 months ago
@Spentastic they have survived amidst drudgery, superstition and the uncertainty and fear of hunter gatherer economies. they also lived without running water, sewage systems, air conditioning, antibiotics or citizens rights (all luxuries of developed, industrialized Western countries). the only people who live out of dumpsters in the developed world are the truly lazy and those with a lack of any capacity to work a basic job for any amount of money. but by all means, go live in a tribe. enjoy.
CellphoneProfitInc 5 months ago
@CellphoneProfitInc I think I will, since I'm typing this comment whilst laying in a dumpster right now.
Ps Fuck corporate greed.
Spentastic 5 months ago
@Spentastic rather a dumpster than a hovel in the middle of a jungle full of dangerous animals, scarcity of food, and a lack of modern medicine or air conditioning. enjoy!
CellphoneProfitInc 5 months ago
@CellphoneProfitInc A dumpster with air conditioning, now that's the luxury I need.
Spentastic 5 months ago
@AroundSun Labor Unions are not an enforced entity, as they only exist in a 10% area of today's workforce. They have no lockdown on any industry where alternatives are available. If you know of one I'm eager to learn of it, but to the best of my knowledge there is no profession that any Union has control of.
phantomkitsunezero 5 months ago
@phantomkitsunezero Construction. /slashed
DREwestcoast 2 months ago
@DREwestcoast I respect your opinion, but there's plenty of personally run construction and home improvement entrepreneurs in that line of work, Unions just seem more prominent in that area for a few reason, higher risk skilled laborers, and they also generally have a higher enrollment of skilled veterans [ Up-to 30 or more years of experience in specific fields.]So a good source of highly skilled professionals. Unfortunately like any organization they are not immune to corruption.
phantomkitsunezero 2 months ago
There was a time in America when unions were necessary, today,,2010 however, unions have become much like the political bureaucrats they bargin with, lying,cheating,stealing,overpaid,overbloated,overrated, top heavy lobbists who espouse a type of communistic political ideology. Unions should go the way of American manufacturing...going,going.GONE.
xxbobdeexx 1 year ago
@xxbobdeexx I'd say unions have and always will have a place, in the same way a corporation has and always will, however, remove it's legal rights and both of them will go back to serving their proper functions (organizing labour and capital).
SaviorOfLogic 1 year ago
@irishrov Milton Friedman worked to end The Draft. He fought for Voluntary Service and proposed it to Nixon. So be glad your ass aint in Afganistan, drinking 80 degree water.
Z0mgZ0mbies 1 year ago
As far as i'm aware, the only thing Friedman ever got right was his support for abolishing the Fed.
Its strange that he should support is closer and not realise his hypocricy. The Fed is a private corporation that answers to its shareholders (bankers), not an 'independant' arm of the government.
Surely this should have highlighted how greed and submission to the will of the shareholders is so inherently devastating, thanks to the motivations and systemic corruption of influence.
TheMchap123 1 year ago
@beaglelikethedog
No one has endorsed 'ending the secret ballot.' To describe the card bill in that manner shows you are either more interested in rhetoric than reality or that you are confused.
mromanov 1 year ago
HEY MILTON, How was that health care and pension the TEACHERS UNION got you while at the U of C ??????
rickbar123 1 year ago
@rickbar123 Paid for by a reduction of his annual salary.
studentofsmith 1 year ago
@studentofsmith LOL we wish !!!
rickbar123 1 year ago
Milton Friedman was an evil scumfuck. He is writhing in hell as I type.
I loathe everything right-wing. I will till the day I drop. Right-wingers are the scum of the Earth, sucking the life out of the working people of the world; the people who create the wealth that the right-wing enjoys.
Fuck Milton Friedman. He was scum. His neoliberal economic programs are responsible for the misery of untold millions in developing countries around the world.
I piss on his grave. *SPIT^*
bapyou 1 year ago
@bapyou I applaud you. I will piss on Milton's fucking grave too. Fuck Milton Friedman. I understand his love for freedom, but freedom doesn't mean the freedom to fuck everybody then benefit yourself. So fuck friedman. Spit on his FUCKING grave. Fuck friedman. Fuck him. He should be ashamed of himself.
solidysnake1 1 year ago
@solidysnake1 "Milton Friedman ... should be ashamed of himself."
You ascribe to Milton Friedman qualities that he never had. Fascists have no shame. And shamelessness is a basic tenet of fascism. Look at Hitler. Look at Mussolini. Look at Pinochet. Look at Francisco Franco. Each was a shameless egoist, tyrant and murderer who, at every turn, sided with the wealthy moneyed class of their respective country. Hannah Arendt said it best: fascists represent "the banality of evil."
bapyou 1 year ago
@bapyou Friedman also sided with the money class of USA. Friedman is evil, his theory is flawed, if he ever was in position of power like Hitler, he would put USA back into the feudal age. Fuck Friedman, I hope you will know the truth.
solidysnake1 1 year ago
@solidysnake1 Yes. I agree. In my book, Friedman is the #1 scumfuck of all time. His theories have proved to be disastrous wherever and whenever they've been implemented. The problem is, members of nearly every economics department in colleges and universities across the country spout Friedman's theories.
bapyou 1 year ago
@bapyou Friedman is the mouthpiece of the American capitalist class and the American government that is allied with the capitalist. Friedman is just some little lick ass fucker. ECONOMICS IS NOT AN EXACT SCIENCE, when an academic field is not exact like chemistry, engineering, or physics, the academic field became the MOUTHPIECE of the state. hell, even biology was biased in USSR, because soviet scientists disagreed with evolution(for obvious ideological crash with communism)
solidysnake1 1 year ago
@bapyou suppporter of friemdan are blind followers, they emobodied ideological fanaticism.
neonaction 1 year ago
@solidysnake1 LOL don't you understand that Hitler and feudalism were the precise opposites of what Friedman espoused? Like the man himself once said, he's on your side - you're not. You words are senseless outrage and you don't even understand why you say the things you do. Pitiable.
UnOxonien 1 year ago
@bapyou
Go choke on your mom's dick, faggot.
LogicalFlawDetector 6 months ago
Thank Ronald Reagan for the demise of unions in the US. His admin deliberately did not enforce labor and union laws. He placed an anti-union lawyer in charge of the Dept of Labor. Ann Coulter's father decertified the Phelps-Dodge union in Arizona under Reagan, putting families out in the street. Milton Friedman, in my estimation, is as close to the anti-Christ as a person can get.
bapyou 1 year ago
@bapyou Unions are scum and single handedly made Britain a third world nation in the 70s i.e. the era of champagne socialists. What Thatcher did was necessary to restore prosperity to Britain. And again thanks to Brown, the economy is in the dumps again. The only thing the Unions ever helped create was stagflation.
bonfirejovi 1 year ago 2
@bonfirejovi
Hey! It's the old asshole bonjovi himself! What the fuck's up you right-wing cunt?
"Unions are scum and single handedly made Britain a third world nation in the 70s
In America, the period of greatest economic parity and greatest economic boom correlates exactly with the time period during which union membership was at all time high (1950s/60s).
When workers have no redress, they have no power. This equates with less wealth for workers. Less wealth = economic bust.
bapyou 1 year ago
@bapyou Strange how you give credit to the unions for (in your words) the greatest economic boom during the 1950's/60s.
Even someone who knew very little about economics could have deduced that the US's economic boom during this period might have been attributed to the fact that we were the only economy left standing after ww2.
Spectre11B 1 year ago
@Spectre11B
"strange how you give credit to the unions for the greatest economic boom during the 1950's/60s."
Excuse me: What I wrote was the 50s/60s were a time period during which economic parity was at an all time high. Economic parity -- a more equitable distribution of wealth -- allowed the middle class to balloon. This was true in Britain and France as well. So your idea that the economic boom occurred because the US was "the only economy left standing after ww2" is specious.
bapyou 1 year ago
@bapyou I'm sorry but I thought you wrote that there was a correlation between union membership and America's economic boom. I must have misread.
Spectre11B 1 year ago
@Spectre11B
"I thought you wrote there was a correlation between union membership & America's economic boom."
Tthere certainly was a correlation between union membership & good economic times. When workers have more money to spread around, the economy hums. Also taxes on the wealthy were much higher then.
During Reagan's time in contrast, with his so-called trickle-down theory, the wealthy simply squirreled away the financial gains they made. Wealth trickled up and the middle class shrank.
bapyou 1 year ago
@bapyou Well then that's where we disagree. Post WW2 all of the major industrial power's economies were crippled or destroyed. Given the debt that we imposed on them through the lend/lease act and the Marshal plan, also furthered to stagnate their economies while boosting ours. In fact, it is the very reason why the world economy became dependent on the US economy and established the US currency as the world standard. It would be incredulous to believe that these factors played no role.
Spectre11B 1 year ago
@bapyou Wars used to be GREAT for the economy.Ask yourself why this isn't so anymore.Follow the profits.It's exactly what's wrong with Miltie's School-GREED.It's that greed that allowed no regulations to be paid for through lobbying.Votes are bought and paid for by lying to voters as a result of greedy corporations making more money than God.
And they still want more.
IWLocal8 1 year ago
@IWLocal8 greed is a flawed by Milton friedman. Greed is only acceptable when two parties have equal power. When the power is skewed, greed obviously favors the powerful and repress the less powerful.
solidysnake1 1 year ago
@solidysnake1 In a free market greed is tempered by risk. It is only when risky behavior is subsidized by government regulation (bail outs, subsidies, etc) that greed can get out of control as even private insurance firms (without regulatory protections, that is) have to temper their greed with risk.
Econ is not science at all. It is empiricism, logic, and philosophy.
You would do well to forget Friedman (Keynes and Krugman too) Think Menger, Mises, Hayak, and Rothbard.
lexilicious74 1 year ago
@lexilicious74 it is widely known that risk has not kept the greedy from crushing entire economies. Your idea is based on the assumption that all players in an economy have the same power. If a huge bank decides to take part in very risky business to maximize short-term profit, the institution as well as the people involved know that they are powerful enough to survive if it all goes down. The workers, on the other end, will suffer because of the bankers' attitude, but have no protection.
fabiogfernandes 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I love it when a man who has NEVER worked a day as anything but a theoretician and professor claims he can speak on unions and their real world implications. Harm? the unions have provided for, among other things; Maternity leave, Superannuation, Workers compensation, Minimum wage (obviously debatable), 8 hour work day, paid annual leave, occupational health and safety, end to child labour, ... the list goes on and on. Friedman has given us... what?
irishrov 1 year ago
@irishrov So you are saying that college professors don't work.
Look I never built a car or played football, but I have an opinion about both. This is where your argument falls to the ground.
If you watched the whole video, you would have heard that Unions Used to provide for things. But the reality is today, unions are no longer associated with a positive workplace environment. Instead they are considered brutal. Continuing on, Unions endorse ending the secret ballot!!!
beaglelikethedog 1 year ago 17
@beaglelikethedog regarding opinions, I certainly don't hold it against anyone for holding an opinion. I think its safe to say though i'd put more faith in the opinion of someone who has actually experienced the situation he/she is commenting on. everyone's entitled to an opinion its only when people place so much faith in the opinion of one person who really has no "real life" experience in the matter that I question the validity of the statement.
irishrov 1 year ago
@irishrov Although Milton Friedman was only 1 person, he left behind an army of lik minded thinkers. Some with actual experience.
beaglelikethedog 1 year ago 9
@beaglelikethedog Just because someone has supporters doesn't mean their correct. I'll allow history to back me up on that one.
irishrov 1 year ago
@irishrov
A perfect example to bring up a valued point that Professor Friedman once made regarding qualification to speak to a subject .... went something like ... no one is saying that someone who has cancer should not seek treatment from a Doctor who he himself has never had cancer.
Secondly ... someone not belonging to a trade union or the like not being able to offer an educated and intelligent comment on them is dubious. It is often the fish out of water that first notices the ocean.
bcshu2 1 year ago
@irishrov So if you had cancer you wouldn't accept treatment from a doctor who hasn't had cancer then? Because without the doctor having cancer before they would have very little idea of how to fix it right? Or if a mechanic never had the exact problem with his car you wouldn't let him fix yours because even though he studies it he doesn't really know what he's doing right? You don't have to go through something to understand it.
brad238899 11 months ago
@irishrov Coming from a recently laid off industrial worker, I can tell you that I wish unions had less power than they do. I think they served a purpose when workers needed relief but now the time has come to step back a little and allow business to run
xtremejohnny69 9 months ago
@xtremejohnny69 Yeah, let's crush thuggish unions. It's high time people like you compete with industrial workers in Cambodia for $2 per day. This is the free market working it's delicious magic. Agree?
Oh, and while your at it, give up you medical benefits, safety standards, overtime pay, workers comp, paid vacation, and environmental protections.
logtype47 9 months ago
@logtype47 Like I said they served a purpose when workers were exploited. But when they got the governement involved and got laws passed for workers rights that's where the shit hit the fan. Worker's rights are between the worker and the employer. I actually saw me being laid off as an opportunity to go back to school and improve my employment opportunities which wouldn't be possible in communist countries. And when you say people like me..what'd you mean? Are you refering to blue collar workers
xtremejohnny69 9 months ago