When Stan's band was young, everyone was "swinging". He wanted to be different, although some of his drummers WANTED to swing and did - sometimes. (Not sure if he liked it.) He seemed to be kind of Symphonic sometimes ... to me. Saw him many times during the '50's. Kai Winding I believe brought the very hip trombone sound to his band. BRAVO KAI !
I agree with BUJAZZDJ You teaching a symphony orchestra for 50 years doesn't mean you are a jazz musician and it's not the swing that makes jazz it's the feel. And in this video there's no feel that Stan Kenton is giving.
I'm very aware this song is a ballad (not a tone poem, a tone poem is based on a folk song and done by an orchestra or concert band) so i'm not speaking specifically about this song. My frustration with all of this is what I call swinging is not just a way to play eighth notes, it's the feel and emotional value as well, something I don't always hear in this music. Most of the time what I hear is just that notes are being played correctly with little emotional value. Sorry if I offended anyone.
@BUJaZzDJ......I was around when this was recorded. In fact, I saw Kenton in concert, during this period, numerous times. This "mellephone era" was Kenton at his greatest. Many people at the time just didn't understand what he was doing.
Contrary to that great jazz standard....it don't necessarily have to "swing" to be jazz.
Kenton was experimenting with a new method of writing for the brass choir and woodwinds. He did things that I hadn't been done before....or since.
Okay, this is what i'm trying to say: JAZZ music has its roots in African American spirituals, the 'feel' if you will, is an indescribable (even though I am attempting to convey what it is to you) thing that makes TRUE Jazz what it is. What I would say, in short, about this music is it's a "commercially" reproduced attempt of the original music. I would call this "progressive jazz", as it is indeed very new and different. It's okay, I understand you may not agree, but you are not experts.
@BUJaZzDJ....".but you are not experts".....With all due respect....I find it rather amusing that you feel you are qualified to make that statement. I don't know about teoespada....however I think he is spot on.
I don't like to "engage" people on the internet, and I'm not going to post my entire vita here, however, when I was admiring Kenton in the early sixties, I was pursuing a degree in music. Since that time I've worked as a teacher, have conducted a symphony orchestra, (continued )
@BUJaZzDJ....I'll put my fifty years of teaching, performing against yours any day.
Please, when replying on the net, try to temper your responses because you have no idea who you are talking too.
Kenton's "melophone" years were liked by some, detested by others, however to say that this is not jazz just shows a complete misunderstanding and just a basic lack of knowledge.
Well, with all due respect to you, I don't understand how we are not qualified to make such statements as we are JAZZ MUSICIANS. Is a classical musician not qualified to state their connection to that music? And furthermore, I find it rather amusing that someone who has taught, conducted a symphony orchestra, etc. likes to say that I am not qualified to make such decisions about the music that I play EVERY DAY. There are these articles by Donald Byrd talking about Kenton's band (continued)...
BUJaZzDJ.....I don't have a problem with your opinion....I just have a problem with how you come on to someone else.
I'm not going to engage you in a pissing contest, and I thought that this just took place over the political videos,
I don't know anything about you....I don't know you have been conferring with, however, I think you need to grow up, know who you are talking to and what you are talking about before you make such states.
I'm not going to engage you anymore...have a nice day.
you should read. I'm sorry i'll take a 77 year old legendary JAZZ trumpet player's opinion over a 50 year teaching veteran and conductor of a symphony orchestra...
...However, I'm not merely pulling what i'm saying out of nowhere. I'm taking some of this from lectures of an expert (one of my professors (who will remain unnamed) who has two degrees in jazz and is pursuing a PhD, who explained all of this). In conclusion, Kenton wrote what would "sell". It seems that judging by all of the comments, it worked. By todays standards, we know that what "sells" by no means possesses the best quality and i'll leave it at that.
You need to check out Fascinating Rhythm with the solo by Frank Rosolino or Dynaflow by the same era band. The Kenton band could swing hard. I'm a 'bone player, but to quote Kenton, Richie kamuca could swing at the drop of a hat.
May I respectfully point out BUJaZzDJ that when you say Kenton's band doesn't swing and you have posted in response to 'All The Things You Are', I would have to reply that it is a Tone Poem - It's not meant to swing. If on the other hand you were referring to say the ' Adventures in Blue' album, then for me the band Swings and it's punchy with brilliant jazz solo's.
Check out 'Stompin At The Savoy, if you can find it. You may be surprised!
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
The problem I have with stan kenton is he does NOT swing, at all. I'll never like this music because it is insulting to what I play, and that is REAL Jazz. I'd like to see anyone argue me with valid points, i've spoke with several active Jazz musicians from different backgrounds who all agree too so my argument isn't one-sided.
p.s.- if you're going to disagree with me do so respectfully, not idiotically.
I cant speak for everyone but I dont like arguments over labels. You can call a musical sound anything you want it doesnt magically change the sound, which to me is the most important thing, not what you label it. Stan Kenton was one of the few band leaders outside the marching band world in the US who took a chance on the brass black sheep that is the Mellophonium and made magic with it. Far as Im concern, the musical magic he had can be called whatever you please, its still there. =)
@BUJaZzDJ If you don't like the way Kenton swings or doesn't, please don't just come onto one of his videos and, basically, berate anyone who likes this music by saying most "real jazzers" don't like it. There's a lot more to jazz than swing, and Kenton explored all options. You don't hear too many people criticizing Dixieland or Pat Metheny's Brazilian-tinged jazz for not swinging, do you? (By the way, I've played stuff in all of the styles I mentioned. It's all jazz, and it's all good.
@BUJaZzDJ If you don't like the way Kenton swings or doesn't, please don't just come onto one of his videos and, basically, berate anyone who likes this music by saying most "real jazzers" don't like it. There's a lot more to jazz than swing, and Kenton explored all options. You don't hear too many people criticizing Dixieland or Pat Metheny's Brazilian-tinged jazz for not swinging, do you? (By the way, I've played stuff in all of the styles I mentioned. It's all jazz, and it's all good.)
@BUJaZzDJ Could Stan have swung if he wanted to though?? He certainly had plenty of famous musicians in his band like Maynard Ferguson, Shorty Rogers and Conti Condoli who knew how to swing. I tihnk Stan was perhaps more of an orchestra that a pure jazz band like Ellington, Bassie or Herman.
kenton messed up the band when he decided to add mellophons the 5 trombones sounded much better alone still kenton is verry verry fine cant really critize
thanks for posting this. All the Things You Are is one of the greatest jazz ballads ever composed. I just love playing this on the piano. It is such a haunting melody...it never gets old.
amazing....this is my first time hearing a mellophonium. im going on my 5 th year of mello and 8th on horn
losingitrush 6 months ago
the progressive, stunning orchestra
intlprofs 7 months ago
Stunning. I heard the band in Birdland a few time when I was a teenager. They featured crescendos you wouldn't believe..... so to speak.
intlprofs 7 months ago
hey people, if you don't like his music don't listen to it.
end of discussion!!
the guy was a visionary who also happened to be a heavy drinker and went thru 4-5 wives!!
his music speaks for itself very progressive and pushed the envelope, not for everyone.
you have to have to an open mind to appreciate his music!!
Steve R from LA
bearman1210 7 months ago
Stan Kenton Orchestra did progressive jazz.
JFroTheMusician 8 months ago
thanks for the mouthpiece tips. I never knew the difference between alto horn mouth pieces and mellophone mouthpieces.
ToweringInfernoOrch 1 year ago
When Stan's band was young, everyone was "swinging". He wanted to be different, although some of his drummers WANTED to swing and did - sometimes. (Not sure if he liked it.) He seemed to be kind of Symphonic sometimes ... to me. Saw him many times during the '50's. Kai Winding I believe brought the very hip trombone sound to his band. BRAVO KAI !
KenJWC 1 year ago
I agree with BUJAZZDJ You teaching a symphony orchestra for 50 years doesn't mean you are a jazz musician and it's not the swing that makes jazz it's the feel. And in this video there's no feel that Stan Kenton is giving.
nathantaderboy98 2 years ago
wow, that horn is weird lookin, looks nothin like what i play
VampireChick1231 2 years ago
I'm very aware this song is a ballad (not a tone poem, a tone poem is based on a folk song and done by an orchestra or concert band) so i'm not speaking specifically about this song. My frustration with all of this is what I call swinging is not just a way to play eighth notes, it's the feel and emotional value as well, something I don't always hear in this music. Most of the time what I hear is just that notes are being played correctly with little emotional value. Sorry if I offended anyone.
BUJaZzDJ 2 years ago
Emotional value is subjective it is not in it self in swing or bop or 3/4. It is in the relation between who plays and who listens.
teoespada 2 years ago
@BUJaZzDJ......I was around when this was recorded. In fact, I saw Kenton in concert, during this period, numerous times. This "mellephone era" was Kenton at his greatest. Many people at the time just didn't understand what he was doing.
Contrary to that great jazz standard....it don't necessarily have to "swing" to be jazz.
Kenton was experimenting with a new method of writing for the brass choir and woodwinds. He did things that I hadn't been done before....or since.
GutpileCharlie 2 years ago
Okay, this is what i'm trying to say: JAZZ music has its roots in African American spirituals, the 'feel' if you will, is an indescribable (even though I am attempting to convey what it is to you) thing that makes TRUE Jazz what it is. What I would say, in short, about this music is it's a "commercially" reproduced attempt of the original music. I would call this "progressive jazz", as it is indeed very new and different. It's okay, I understand you may not agree, but you are not experts.
BUJaZzDJ 2 years ago
@BUJaZzDJ....".but you are not experts".....With all due respect....I find it rather amusing that you feel you are qualified to make that statement. I don't know about teoespada....however I think he is spot on.
I don't like to "engage" people on the internet, and I'm not going to post my entire vita here, however, when I was admiring Kenton in the early sixties, I was pursuing a degree in music. Since that time I've worked as a teacher, have conducted a symphony orchestra, (continued )
GutpileCharlie 2 years ago
@BUJaZzDJ....performed in the original cast of an opera......and performed with an ensemble at Carnegie Hall.
Now I don't claim to be an expert, but I've certainly been around the "musical block" in the last fifty years.
In other words, I've pretty much "been there and done that"....and that's as far as I'm going with that.
I just find it rather presumptuous when a 19 year old claims that "you are not an expert."
(continued)
GutpileCharlie 2 years ago
@BUJaZzDJ....I'll put my fifty years of teaching, performing against yours any day.
Please, when replying on the net, try to temper your responses because you have no idea who you are talking too.
Kenton's "melophone" years were liked by some, detested by others, however to say that this is not jazz just shows a complete misunderstanding and just a basic lack of knowledge.
GutpileCharlie 2 years ago
Well, with all due respect to you, I don't understand how we are not qualified to make such statements as we are JAZZ MUSICIANS. Is a classical musician not qualified to state their connection to that music? And furthermore, I find it rather amusing that someone who has taught, conducted a symphony orchestra, etc. likes to say that I am not qualified to make such decisions about the music that I play EVERY DAY. There are these articles by Donald Byrd talking about Kenton's band (continued)...
BUJaZzDJ 2 years ago
BUJaZzDJ.....I don't have a problem with your opinion....I just have a problem with how you come on to someone else.
I'm not going to engage you in a pissing contest, and I thought that this just took place over the political videos,
I don't know anything about you....I don't know you have been conferring with, however, I think you need to grow up, know who you are talking to and what you are talking about before you make such states.
I'm not going to engage you anymore...have a nice day.
GutpileCharlie 2 years ago
you should read. I'm sorry i'll take a 77 year old legendary JAZZ trumpet player's opinion over a 50 year teaching veteran and conductor of a symphony orchestra...
BUJaZzDJ 2 years ago
...However, I'm not merely pulling what i'm saying out of nowhere. I'm taking some of this from lectures of an expert (one of my professors (who will remain unnamed) who has two degrees in jazz and is pursuing a PhD, who explained all of this). In conclusion, Kenton wrote what would "sell". It seems that judging by all of the comments, it worked. By todays standards, we know that what "sells" by no means possesses the best quality and i'll leave it at that.
BUJaZzDJ 2 years ago
Sublime!
teoespada 2 years ago
Gorgeous.
flugelsak 2 years ago
You need to check out Fascinating Rhythm with the solo by Frank Rosolino or Dynaflow by the same era band. The Kenton band could swing hard. I'm a 'bone player, but to quote Kenton, Richie kamuca could swing at the drop of a hat.
tbonejazz39701 2 years ago
May I respectfully point out BUJaZzDJ that when you say Kenton's band doesn't swing and you have posted in response to 'All The Things You Are', I would have to reply that it is a Tone Poem - It's not meant to swing. If on the other hand you were referring to say the ' Adventures in Blue' album, then for me the band Swings and it's punchy with brilliant jazz solo's.
Check out 'Stompin At The Savoy, if you can find it. You may be surprised!
canterite 3 years ago 3
This comment has received too many negative votes show
The problem I have with stan kenton is he does NOT swing, at all. I'll never like this music because it is insulting to what I play, and that is REAL Jazz. I'd like to see anyone argue me with valid points, i've spoke with several active Jazz musicians from different backgrounds who all agree too so my argument isn't one-sided.
p.s.- if you're going to disagree with me do so respectfully, not idiotically.
BUJaZzDJ 3 years ago
I cant speak for everyone but I dont like arguments over labels. You can call a musical sound anything you want it doesnt magically change the sound, which to me is the most important thing, not what you label it. Stan Kenton was one of the few band leaders outside the marching band world in the US who took a chance on the brass black sheep that is the Mellophonium and made magic with it. Far as Im concern, the musical magic he had can be called whatever you please, its still there. =)
malawolf85 3 years ago 4
I guess you've never heard City of Glass. A shame.
bryancar70 2 years ago
Comment removed
teoespada 2 years ago
@BUJaZzDJ If you don't like the way Kenton swings or doesn't, please don't just come onto one of his videos and, basically, berate anyone who likes this music by saying most "real jazzers" don't like it. There's a lot more to jazz than swing, and Kenton explored all options. You don't hear too many people criticizing Dixieland or Pat Metheny's Brazilian-tinged jazz for not swinging, do you? (By the way, I've played stuff in all of the styles I mentioned. It's all jazz, and it's all good.
TheCatholicBoat 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@BUJaZzDJ If you don't like the way Kenton swings or doesn't, please don't just come onto one of his videos and, basically, berate anyone who likes this music by saying most "real jazzers" don't like it. There's a lot more to jazz than swing, and Kenton explored all options. You don't hear too many people criticizing Dixieland or Pat Metheny's Brazilian-tinged jazz for not swinging, do you? (By the way, I've played stuff in all of the styles I mentioned. It's all jazz, and it's all good.)
TheCatholicBoat 1 year ago
@BUJaZzDJ Could Stan have swung if he wanted to though?? He certainly had plenty of famous musicians in his band like Maynard Ferguson, Shorty Rogers and Conti Condoli who knew how to swing. I tihnk Stan was perhaps more of an orchestra that a pure jazz band like Ellington, Bassie or Herman.
UpperRegister 1 year ago
kenton messed up the band when he decided to add mellophons the 5 trombones sounded much better alone still kenton is verry verry fine cant really critize
jazzmusic1937 3 years ago
Comment removed
BUJaZzDJ 3 years ago
thanks for posting this. All the Things You Are is one of the greatest jazz ballads ever composed. I just love playing this on the piano. It is such a haunting melody...it never gets old.
GutpileCharlie 3 years ago
Nomnomnom <3
tech4111 3 years ago
breathtakingly cool and lovely
vertitatis 3 years ago
Those tones are OUTSTANDING! Truly a one of a kind orchestra. Thasnk you for posting! peace Clark
PetClarkie 3 years ago 2
Np =^.^= more people need to hear Stan Kenton's music.
malawolf85 3 years ago