A Scandal in Bohemia Part 3 of 6 (Sherlock Holmes)

[SongPhantom]

@16Intel while i love jeremy bretts holmes, I just wish to point out, there is no sex in the 2009 movie, in fact holmes and adlers relationship seems quite chaste. Which i was pleased with. Still love the books XD

[greengrendel]

There is nothing to "wonder". they're not gay in the story, they can be as gay as you want in your imagination.

[tiemedown]

@greengrendel Oscar Wilde, who convinced Doyle to continue on with the character, might disagree with you

[greengrendel]

@tiemedown Well, if he says so :)

[subarux56]

man wish i was living during that time in london

[Ceredwenthedeer]

@subarux56 I do too ... even though I imagine that the living conditions and medical practices were pretty awful and women's rights were abysmal. But I still want to go there. x)

I think it's the outfits and manners. I literally can't resist men in suits and top hats, and if I could spend all my time in one of those dress-and-jacket ensembles, I would. (without the corset though - I like my ribs where they are)

[lightbeing23]

Holmes has relationships in the mind, more of an intellectual admiration for great and combative minds...

[mariuslupercus]

A sandwitch...? The sheer horror in Watson's voice! Ahahahahahahahaha!

[CaptainAndyman]

"It was not that he felt any emotion akin to love for Irene Adler. All emotions, and that one particularly, were abhorrent to his cold, precise but admirably balanced mind." - taken from A Scandal In Bohemia. Holmes never felt love for anyone!

[CaptainAndyman]

For pity's sake, what is wrong with all you people who seem to think Holmes was gay? Although it was never said directly in the books, if you read them it is obvious that Holmes has absolutely no interest in any form of relationship, with men or women. He and Watson were simply close friends, as was normal back in those days. Even Irene Adler, despite what some interpretations may have you believe, was merely someone Holmes admired as someone who outsmarted him. He never wanted a relationship!

[SongPhantom]

@CaptainAndyman People just like to put labels on things

[tiemedown]

@CaptainAndyman And yet Holmes' thoughts were interpreted by Watson who, God love him, was an honest but faulty omniscent. Often Holmes breaks his passionless routine for Watson's sake. What people dont seem to understand is that Holmes could have loved Watson while still maintaining his asexuality. Not wanting physicality but instead desiring intimacy cerebrally still is indicative of a possessive and enduring relationship. I reference empty house dying detective and three garridebs primarily

[CaptainAndyman]

@tiemedown But in The Dying Detective, Holmes still didn't tell Watson the truth until the very end, putting his work first as always. Similarly, in The Empty House, Holmes only reveals to Watson he has survived at the latest possible moment and because he needs his help. Their relationship was nothing more than friendship, possibly so remarkably close only because Holmes had very few other true friends and certainly none who tolerated him to the extent Watson would.

[tiemedown]

I disagree. Holmes often quotes that he keeps things from watson for his 'own protection', the same self serving possessiveness that touches all of his ineractions. And yet Watson is the only person he chooses to expose these machinations to, his addiction, his vulnerabilities. Holmes is not tactile yet manhandles watson, even his own brother is a means to an end while Watson is a desired accomplice. I am not saying Holmes character is in any way changed, he still puts intellect first

[tiemedown]

However, in the Three Garridebs Holmes admits that he would forsake the law entirely if Watson had died. Watson has been portrayed as being slow witted and slothful when in reality canon-lovers know him to be a resilient handsome man made slightly bitter by war: in this way could the relationship between Watson and Holmes be underplayed? I think it is logical to argue a relationship or a friendship easily without one lessoning the effect of the other.

[tiemedown]

@CaptainAndyman plus one could have a friendship with someone and enjoy sex with them at these times ( the poetry of Katherine Philip) and not consider it in the same light of a conventional marriage. the concept of attraction through intellect was popularized by the defense of Oscar Wilde and the only way I feel in which Sherlock Holmes would have entertained any desires in his 'mental attic', you can argue against this but what I'm saying is that it is not absolutely impossible in canon.

[CaptainAndyman]

@tiemedown If there is any love between Watson and Holmes, it can only be said to be of an entirely brotherly nature, nothing romantic or sexual. The Blanched Soldier is an interesting one for Holmes's views on Watson (as it is written from Holmes's pov). Speaking of Watson, he says "if I burden myself with a companion... it is not done out of sentiment or caprice, but it is that Watson has some remarkable characteristics of his own". He finds Watson useful, but Holmes is always above emotions.

[tiemedown]

A definite plausible argument that does not proclude a relationship based off passion and not just fealty. I get your argument and it is supported by evidence but for many Holmes' relationships to every facet of human emotion are unique therefore an attraction of personalities could in fact be his only warm human outlet. I think both options are equally viable and I dont get why people are so averse to the latter. Holmes' regard for everyone and everything seems to be beyond our labels

[va3svd]

@tiemedown I think people are averse to the latter because it flies directly in the face of *everything* we know about both Holmes and Watson. The desire to sexualize everything on the part of modern humans is quite repulsive; it is very possible for two entirely straight men to have a deep friendship without it being a sexual or sexually-charged relationship.

Holmes is not nearly so paranthropic as you'd suggest, or modern filmmakers seem to want to present him.

[39ocean]

Actually, there in a mental 'disorder' which causes a person to be sexually unintrested.

[DaFortepianino]

i agree, but her nose is just... scary.

[ReidGirl1307]

Jesus, people are freaking out over whether Holmes and Watson were doing the slashy-slashy/the horizontal tango/invert behaviors? It's a scholarly theory, just like the one that says the hiatus was Holmes breaking his cocaine addiction or that Holmes was a woman.

I think it's logical, and I will squee over the touchy-touchy and the bromance. And I will post my opinion.  Don't like it? Don't reply.

[wowvideoshey]

Oh My God!!!! Will you people stop wondering if Watson and Holmes are gay! Can't they just be good friends without any perversion! Holmes just doesn't trust women; he believes them to be fickle creatures. Stop already!

[HarryplusHermione]

@lonepantherkmt Holmes is probably not a heterosexual, if you meant him, he's most likely asexual.

[HarryplusHermione]

Lol. At first I thought he said "Here are three underpants in gold".

[doctorw2]

my god! this irene adler is beyond gorgous she is a breath taking beauty a woman like that drives men mad with desire.

[PiggyofGuinea]

Has anyone else noticed that the music on the violin at 2:18 on till the end of that part is VERY simmilar to that in the new movie?

[AngelVencedor2008]

@lonepantherkmt No. Watson even got married, Holmes has no sexual interest, he thinks women only complicate things

[TheDaisygirl70]

I love Holmes complete lack of respect for royalty.. Watsons bowing and he's filling his pipe! LOL

[gringo4cali]

mr. holmes is the best excemple of ninjuttsu, yeah, he is ninja.

[gus4u2c]

@lonepantherkmt WATSON IS STRAIGHT, AND HOLMES HAS NO SEXUAL INTREST LIKE MR.SPOCK OR JESUS CHRIST.

[hadassah179]

2:23 Holmes the meddler, Holmes the busy body, Holmes the Zorro! ^_^

[CaptainPolaris]

@lonepantherkmt Whatever. 

[CaptainPolaris]

@lonepantherkmt You've never picked up a copy of Doyle's work, have you?

[Lyrictheac]

@CaptainPolaris Just ignore the immature idiot and perhaps he will leave you alone.

[CaptainPolaris]

@Lyrictheac Thanks :)

[WlshMaggot]

"I don't think i've ever been driven faster in a cab"

XD No!, never?

I think if some one got in my cab and offered me the equivelent of a soverign id do the same! It would be a case of "hold on to something sir!"

[aries066]

WOW! 700 pounds was a fortune in those days!

[dalekbeats]

Thank God the king randomly discarded his mask in Sherlocks sitting room, or Sherlock would never have found it!

[bronteteri]

Holmes love for this woman is not the kind of passion love .. men and women find w/one another.. but his admiration and respect for her.. she is the only woman to think as he does and outwits him... this is his kind of love.. and remember he keeps her picture.....

[SuperFlouss]

This woman's face looks wound pretty tight, like she went to Joan Rivers surgeon.

[SuperFlouss]

I remembered where I know this bearded guy from, Raiders of The Lost Ark; he was the German officer whose face gets shriveled up by the Arks spirits at the end of the movie. The line I most remember him saying in that movie was, "We shall take what we like and then decide whether or not to blow your ship from the water." Can't believe I remember that, lol!

[UselessRambling]

I know he's not supposed to be in love with Adler, but I think that just the idea of Holmes in love is cute. Even though he's, like...asexual. However, I reeeeeeally don't like Holmes and Adler together in the new movie.

[asmodeus585]

@16Intel: True, nowadays people don't believe in noble feelings and affection, to them only sexual attraction and self-interest exist. "Friends" are the people who might come in handy to them and "beloved ones" are those who they find sexually attractive. In our postmodernistic era humans are becoming more and more like animals, the things that made us different from other beings on this planet successively cease to matter. Money, sex and fame are important, love and friendship not anymore.

[Sambucacat]

300 pound in Gold and 700 in notes, that's some serious bingage!

[Vivacuba3]

@Sambucacat Not to mention after calculating the value of late Victorian pound to the pound of today...

[ArvindanT]

Tchaikovsky

He is going to see Tchaikovsky?

Lucky bastard.

[erracht]

Holmes gives the impression of being, if not asexual, more interested in his work than in women (or men, I don't think he's meant to be gay). Watson does get married in the stories.

[CaptainPolaris]

Arrgh, Holmes wasn't/isn't in love with Adler. Admiration and respect, but not love.

[ArdaPoirot]

The woman of Sherlock is Irene Adler!!

[s004237]

I love Watson, he's so funny, "Sandwich!!" haha he wanted a real meal :D

Irene is such a fascinating character. But I don't like the idea of holmes with her, or anyone for that matter. He's a truly unique island of man and Watson is the only one brave and clever enough to put up with his antics. They're such bff's!

[Imverycute2]

Oh, that look on Holmes's face when he heard Irene sing! And then when he first saw her! If that isn't a crush, I don't know what is! It's the same look he gave as Freddy in My Fair Lady only 20 years older and with makeup on!

(singsong voice) Holmes has a crush, Holmes has a crush...... :D

[asmodeus585]

@Imverycute2: Now, don't be silly. ;)

[ultraviolet128]

metaphor nonsense - did you see the look on his face!!

[slmorganwalker]

Brett's hedge clipping could do with a little 'method'

[lekonoleken]

i couldn't watch the movie i loved the books too much

[jimmbo13]

Amen....its a sad reflection on our societal idiocy that only sex and cheap thrillers can rouse the masses. These Brett films will always be the finest.

[Lillymum2]

Yes the plot of the latest movie was rediculus, but I must admit the Holmes/Adler pairing has always facinated me! I'd believe that over anything else- She bested him- that would interest him. Normal boring women did not. Rules of normal society did not matter- to either of them. So why not?

Raising a glass to a thinking woman's man.

[secretagentmann9]

@jimmbo13 I don't know... These are obviously better, but I still can't get over how they showed how homes thought things through, especially in the fights.

[3k14]

I completely agree with you.

[fatblokesagas]

did u read the original books?

[Moniker180]

The king waits for him to bow. Cute.

[Raeyven76]

No one can equal or even come close to Jeremy Brett's Holmes. He played the character perfectly, capturing Holmes's quirkiness and aloofness and doing such a brilliant job at roleplaying characters when in disguise. Both Hardwicke and Burke handled the role of Watson just right, managing to capture the relationship between him and Holmes and yet not make him out to be a complete idiot. Stories were kept true to the originals and the era re-created beautifully. Will never be bettered!

[lollipopfop]

This episode is palatable.

[nenuok]

Brett is such a brilliant actor!

[lightinthestars]

"im sure mrs. hudson will bring you up a sandwich"

"a SANDWICH...?"

[e6d6d6yheartagram]

Hardwicke was a better Watson i think

[ankha102]

the make up is fantastic! ...as the owner

[99range70def]

I LOVE vaginas! L0OLolOlolOLl0L0L0lOloLOLolOLO­Lololl

[NatureLover987]

dang, that was some make up job!!

[Chakotaysmack]

it was so good, i didn't know whom he was!

[lowspark68]

Why did Burke leave the series after one season? He was as good as or better than Hardwicke.

[swan240687]

He wanted to spend more time with his family, especially his son (who was only two years old)

[pumamama9]

Holmes won't bow to the 'Count von Kramm'. Love it!

[Theta101]

Damn, poor Watson. He pathetic way he said sandwich makes me feel sympathetic hunger for him. Holmes, caring but uncaring.

[MinutebyMinutefilms]

obviously the modern generation has polluted much of the minds these days. any affection, 'touching' between men is considered gay by all. how distasteful is the perception of people nowadays? by all means, i do believe some of us; including me, understand the affection that was shown by holmes. it is purely a very deep friendship, where much appreciation and gratitude are shown throughout their ordeals in life together over the years.

[LiIGrim]

@MinutebyMinutefilms

Broke back mountain actually had two guys kissing and rubbing up each other. I'm fine with that. But this was just too badly played.

Your stuff was just crap. I'm just saying. If you can't handle bad criticism, don't put videos up.

[CephiedVariable]

@MinutebyMinutefilms While I do agree that Holmes and Watson's friendship is platonic in nature, I do want to point out that it's no modern pollution that has people assuming homoerotic undertones- even the Victorians had theories about that. Haven't you ever heard of that famous 19th century essay about how Watson surely must be a woman because he was more like a wife to Holmes than a friend?

[MinutebyMinutefilms]

@CephiedVariable nope, never heard of it. even alexander the great was a victim of of such speculation, although i have not read enough to know if that was indeed non fiction. maybe friendship of that depth was so sparse, unheard of or never attainable by most men, it would seem to be a habit to judge a certain partnership of it being more than 'just friends'.

[CephiedVariable]

@MinutebyMinutefilms Alexander the Great and Haphaestion actually were, by many accounts, lovers, although there can be no official confirmation on the exact nature of their extraordinarily close relationship since many of the accounts of Alexander the Great were written during Roman times when homosexual relationships were viewed as something to be left behind in adolescence. In Alexander's time, however, homosexual relationships between Macedonia nobles were more than accepted.

[CephiedVariable]

@MinutebyMinutefilms I don't think the speculation comes from the fact that friendship was "sparse" in the past, but probably from the fact that "being gay" is a relatively modern concept. People weren't "gay" in the past- they just sometimes had lifelong romantic and sexual affairs with their BFF while also being dutifully married and producing children (however dispassionately). "Homoerotic" friendships like this are as old as literature itself, dating back to Gilgamesh and Enkidu (cont).

[CephiedVariable]

@MinutebyMinutefilms (cont from last), however the sexual aspects of such relationships throughout history were significantly whitewashed during the 19th century (not just for men, women too- my best friend has this great Victorian-era volume of Sappho that tries to claim that her poems are actually heterosexual) but the cultural memory of such bonds still exists, leading people to "read too much into" relationships such as Kirk&Spock or Watson&Holmes. /HISTORY NERD TIME

[Clairescool99]

@MinutebyMinutefilms I 100% agree with you. 

[Jacobitess]

@MinutebyMinutefilms Amen!

[sherlocklover89]

Does Holmes have a crush?...........

[CaptainPolaris]

Holmes does not harbour any romantic feelings like that. He does love Watson, as Watson is his only friend.

[sherlocklover89]

I know and as a big fan of the books I hate people suggesting that, when there being serious! that was ment as a joke! ok? a joke!

[sherlocklover89]

Mrs Hudson will bring you up a sandwich

Sandwich?!

Goodnight!

lol

[Mosflow]

It's funny he wants to finish the case before friday because there is a violin concert happening on that day. lol

[CaptainPolaris]

Holmes and Watson are just really close friends. In the case of "The Five Orange Pips" Watson wonders if the person calling during a storm is one of Holmes's friends, whereas Holmes replies, "Other than you, I have none."

Therefore Watson is Holmes's only friend.

I love both Brett and Burke. :)

[beanmontag]

Holmes and Watson say no on prop 8!

[bitherwack]

Brett's having been a great horse rider came to advantage for this role.

[pratyah]

Why is Sherlock Holmes so mean? If he does not wish to eat why can't Mrs Hudson fix a decent meal for Watson? The way Watson says sandwich in utter shock says it all. Did not Watson have the freedom to eat a decent supper in this house?

[hotmonkeyz]

Brioney Ln! Wonder about the character in 'Atonement'!

As far as H&W being gay- well, it would have been unpublishable if it was obvious. However- Doyle was a contemporary of Wilde! And futher, gay guys aren't always, then or now, stereotypes. Gays have a way of disguise!

[bookishmuch]

Wilde sure conformed to the stereotypes, heh heh.

[potatofiend]

spectre0075 and WomaninBlack215, if I was trying to say that Holmes was gay, I would have said 'Holmes was gay!' I wasn't saying that. I was saying exactly what I said: I like the amount of physical affection between them in this episode. That's all.

[manstein1986]

respect (only) the intelligent !!!

[potatofiend]

I'd forgotten how much I love this episode. Look how much Holmes *touches* Watson - leading him out of the room by the shoulder, hand on his hand on the banister, then the way he reaches up and taps his shoulder and then his face as he says "Good night." Not to mention his wicked grin around the pipe at the thought of Romano's. It's quite delightful!

[WomaninBlack215]

If you are trying to imply that Holmes was gay, STOP IT! I only wish Jeremy Brett would say "Good night" to me! Tee hee!

[RavynneRune]

It is very true. But I'm a bit vexed at how much this particular episode varies from the actual book. And if anyone doubts just how close Sherlock and Watson are then they could not have possibly read the stories correctly. This episode has actually watered down the amount of affection exhibited between them in Doyle's 'Scandal in Bohemia'.

[bookishmuch]

I know this is hard for modern people to believe, but it IS possible in the world to be very close friends. Especially men. I know it's hard to grasp the fact that there is affection that is not sexual.

[potatofiend]

Did you actually read what I wrote below? I never said anything about it being sexual. All I said was that the closeness of their friendship, as demonstrated through affectionate contact, is sweet. Your mind is the dirty one here, not mine.

[2000Erich]

Unfortunately in our culture most people are either homophobes or homo-obsessed.

Too few people on earth can ever see things for what they are. Not for what they want or expect.

[BarnabasFrid]

The term here is homo erotic. It just borders the homosexual... it is obvious these two were not lovers.

[bookishmuch]

Hahaha, I love Watson. all he thinks about in this episode is food. ^_^

[sailorearth2007]

Who can blame him...he always seams to be the practical one, while Holmes is the unstoppable detective who never rests until the case is solved.

I am a HUGE Sherlock Holmes fan...I have 2 of his collections, and just ordered the other 2...Adventures of Sherlock Holmes, Memoirs of Sherlock Holmes, Return of Sherlock Holmes, and Casebook of Sherlock Holmes.

[herodotus53]

Dayuuuum, the guy just drops a thousand pounds on their table like it was nothing! That was, what, over a year's income for a well-to-do gentleman?

[123456789159487263]

A good deal more than that

[Innerhype]

Good lord, that makeup change was awesome!