All those claiming China is not getting better than before are simply blind and illiterate. Admittedly, China has a rising inequality gap but never ever do Chinese poor become poorer - no data can support otherwise. (if you can't distinguish difference between simple concept of absolute and relative wealth then I suggests you should go back to primary school.)
By any living standards, Chinese poor are lot materialistically better off than before.
All those claiming China is not getting better than before are simply blind and illiterate. Admittedly, China has a rising inequality gap but never ever do Chinese poor become poorer - no data can support this claim. (if you can't distinguish difference between simple concept of absolute and relative wealth then I suggests you should go back to primary school.)
By any living standards, Chinese poor are lot materialistically better off than before.
In my opinion communism only works if the entire world decides to become communist. That way no country would have economic advantage over another and so you wouldn't get as great variation in living standards. Of course, this kind of unity would never happen, humans are inherently selfish and even in this modern world people are still obsessed with loss of national sovereignty.
Chinese has its own demacratic too,don't expect every country will have the same demacratic as western world, then the world will not move forward. it is just not like western style demacrocy, our demacrocy is that we have election in only one party, and the drawback of two party is too much fight and transaction cost including the timing, one party is easy to resolve problem and get problem done efficiently.but we don't want a lot of state-owned company.
China's success is due to its ability to adopt to new concepts like socialist capitalism.....It is glorious to be rich as long as it is shared by all the people..... : > )
Deng has to order the crash down, because he is faced with the most difficult choice in political history, that is when the ordinary people and the beauracratic
Before Philipine 's president met with Deng, He said, the Spratly Islands is close to philipine , so the island should be mine, Deng said " you philipine is also close to China"
Now China is the pure capitalism in the side of suppressing worker but not absorb the other half of the capitalism which is giving money back to the general public which is also exactly socialism is about.
Capitalists loved Deng Xiaoping. He returend capitalism to China. In the end, the maoists betrayed their master Mao and made greedy capitalism their new lord.
Today China is ruled by greed. That greed made some people rich, but THIS IS NOT SOCIALISM. The Chinese Communist Party started their betrayal of communism in 1949 with Maoism, by 1983 capitalism was reintroduced. The failure of Maoism lead to the return of that system that the CCP was suppose to destroy.
@UDSS After 1949, Maoism is not communism. Please tell me who you think can represent the then communist? Now who is ? Then where do you think the real success of real communism ?
You should say for Libya that Qadaffi did what was necessary??
ROFLMAO
If you agree an evil genocider killing their own people in China, you have to agree to every goddamn GENOCIDERS on this planet and believe me there are a lot of NEPOTIC DICTATORS out there ;)
Long live Freedom and Democracy in China and Tibet
You should say for Libya that Qadaffi did what was necessary??
ROFLMAO
If you agree an evil genocider killing their own people in China, you have to agree to every goddamn GENOCIDERS on this planet and believe me there are a lot of NEPOTIC DICTATORS out there ;)
Long live Freedom and Democracy in China and Tibet
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
You should say for Libya that Qadaffi did what was necessary??
ROFLMAO
If you agree an evil genocider killing their own people in China, you have to agree to every goddamn GENOCIDERS on this planet and believe me there are a lot of NEPOTIC DICTATORS out there ;)
Long live Freedom and Democracy in China and Tibet
@DemocracynowChina Funny thing is English is not your language. You make yourself look like a stupid ass yellow bitch troll because you are @DemocracynowChina (aka, Taiwanese Chink SHIT-EATER), you even use the same BAD English that Taiwaneses are famous for, and laugh at your retarded wit. Then you produce so many posts like the pathetic loser that you are. #LOL
@DemocracynowChina You make yourself look like a stupid ass yellow bitch troll because you are Taiwanese Chink SHIT-EATER, you even use the same BAD English that Taiwaneses are famous for, and laugh at your retarded wit. Then you produce so many posts like the pathetic loser that you are. #LOL
A 27-year-old Unemployable Taiwanese Native suffers from Psychiatric Disorder in Canada. The sicko has problem with social interaction with people, so he has to channel his desire for communication in a perverted way and becomes an anti-China psycho on YouTube 24 x 7 x 52 x 3 yrs.
He eats shit for a living and bullshits like an idiot in weird Taiwanese English to seek attention and boast his very low self-esteem. #LOL
@TimeManInJail FYI : @DemocracynowChina is a YouTube-dwelling yellow IDIOT who makes incoherent comments on many videos and finds pleasure in his own stupidity 24 x 7, 365 x 3 yrs. He obviously develops inferiority complex in the real world and needs to vent his frustrations in the virtual world, cyberspace #LOL
@DemocracynowChina Why would Deng have shot me if it was arranged ahead of time that I would be meeting him in person? You don't make sense.
For Tiananmen Square, Deng did what was necessary at the time. China was in transition and stability was necessary so the country would not fall apart in civil unrest. It's not like the Chinese leadership did not do everything in their power to negotiate with the student leaders. It was the student leaders that were arrogant and uncompromising.
@1XMarksSpot For Tiananmen Square, Deng did what was necessary at the time.
Sure and Qadaffi is doing what`s necessary at this time right? :)
Yeah right, the Chinese leaders kept tryign to slander the students all the time, they never wanted to negotiate most of them agreed to shoot them since the beginning they were just faking the negociations, they didn`t want to do it forreal
The yellow bitch @DemocracynowChina (aka, Taiwanese Chink SHIT-EATER) has 100+ “pedophile” troll accounts, these are hidden because she is a yellow troll bitch pedophile, they are @rebecca9532 and @fortunesinf[1,2,3,…50], nothing but the same kind of retarded posts that target children, that Taiwanese Chink SHIT-EATER posts #LOL
This documentary has been eye opening. I thank you for posting this information. It's a shame many people watch irrelevant trash like Chocolate Rain when they should be trying to understand the world around them. Again, it's the consequence of capitalism and the freedom to choose.
China is a 5000 year old civilization. How could these naive students expected the government to quickly solve the early hiccups of Deng Xiaoping's sweeping capitalist reforms after only having enacted them a mere decade earlier. Such smooth transition takes very gradual step by step reforms ... especially after so many centuries of feudalist, imperialist, communist & socialists policies that have been drilled into the culture of the Chinese. I loudly applaud Deng's amazing Capitalist reforms!
MAO: he lead the people to revolt against fudalism, and landlords. he told the peasents to rise up against slavery. so he isn't the evil dictator ppl think he was.
DENG: he was right, goverment and busniss shouldn't go together. he taught us to change.
HU: with deng's powerful economy, hu jintao will make china powerful again.
It seems Russia is heading China's direction by using 'Controlled Capitalism'. As long as the people are making $, who cares about not getting freedom of speech.
It is the duty of every true citizen of the world to oppose at every turn, and to work for the annihilation of, every vicious autocratic regime. This certainly includes the Communist Party of China, but we should not forget the State Peace and Development Council in Myanmar, the National Congress Party in Sudan, Kim's Korean Worker's Party, and Putin's United Russia.
Of course it should be ethical, or else you are hurting other people. Of course, what do you define being rich? To simply live well, as most people in developed nations do, or to live better than others? A lot of people who chase money want the latter. Naturally they just want to have superior wealth to others, and don't care about breaking rules.
@thrylusk atrocious quote... which lead directly to today's "to hate the rich is just" lol. actually, there is an even better quote from Central Military Committee boss Liu Huaqing (who recently passed away) "The Army shall protect the reform regardless of means!" Here you got guns literally pointing at the economically disadvantaged.
@flamingtroll Bankrupt because of Socialism? Dont be ridiculous. its obvious that you have no Idea why the global economy (including USA) is in hardship.
I am sure overspending by the governments, a lot of which went into inefficient social programs is a big part of it. And that's the kind of thing socialist countries eventually get themselves into until they go through bouts of austerity . Too bad even that wont work this time. Best of both worlds according to would usually ends up to be the worst of both worlds, for the same reasons as A and B.
@flamingtroll Yup usually ends up the worst of both worlds just like France, Germany , Norway , Sweden , Great Brittan. Countries like them right? The reason Socialism fails is because of HUMAN GREED, The same elements found in abundance in A & B.
@DemocracynowChina is just a Taiwanese Chink SHIT-EATER who is impersonating others in order to avoid losing face by showing how inferior he is to the rest of the planet, in fact he is a Taiwanese dog that eats dog feeces at every meals of his life. He is on Youtube busy trolling 24/7 365 days a year sometimes 366 eating shit all the time and showing how stupid and retarded he is :) #LOL
What the CCP did was betrayal. Betrayal to Maoism, but also to Marxism Leninism in general. Is today's China better than Mao's China? Yes, for 120 million Chinese. But 800 million people remain just as poor as they were under Mao. China is still a totalitarian state, and 7 out of 8 China's workers do not enjoy a western live style.
China's capitalist revolution came because Maoism failed. They failed because their system was not based on workers democracy and democratic socialism.
Here is the thing, if the method prove to be not working, we ditch it and find a better method. That's what Deng xiaoping did, pure and simple. Karl Marx is German guy who lived in the 19th century and Lenin is a Russian guy who lived at the dawn of 20th century. Why exactly would Chinese people keep following their work? And 800 million people just as poor as they were 40 years ago? Are we talking about the China on Earth or some fictional land you dreamed up?
@UDSS Under Mao, around 60 million Chinese died, either killed by starvation or by their relatives. With regards to democracy, you can't expect it to happen overnight and work well. Even the United States, which declared the equality of man in 1776, took a century to extend the rhetoric to the blacks, another 4o years to extend voting rights to women and 200 years to effectively give democracy to all citizens. Changing to democracy overnight is what the USSR did and look what happened.
Deng`s leadership was the key to China and indeed they are going to dominate the world in the next century if they keep loving CONTROLED CAPTLISM as far as polistcs.. they are fine and they are a love component that would last for the next decade. i think Russia is headed this way but it need some kind of leaders with new vision that would take Russia and its economy to the dreams that they never though of.
Ultimately, the whole world should take the teachings of Tai Chi and Yin Yang, and of the classics of Chinese civilization which talk about keeping a balance in life. Too much democracy means change takes forever, too much central control breads corruption since absolute power corrupts absolutely. Too many democrats running the house and you get too soft and setup ineffective government corporations, too many republicans and you become too tough on foreign countries. Yin Yang balance in all life
It always puzzles me when one view the world in black and white, i.e. capitalism is bad, communism is good and the vis-versa. Capitalism does exemplifies the greed in human, but communism leads to stagnation. Neither are desirable.
It annoys me when people criticize to no end. The systems may both have problems, but to satisfy yourself with the rejection of both and offer no alternatives...
To quote Zaph Bennagan; "What makes a man turn neutral?"
It's so simple, capitalism works, socialism fails. Just because the system is not "equal" does not make it unfair.
@thrylusk Look at china. Now look at America. Somehow I think a mixture of both doesn't work so well.
Yes, capitalism make the rich richer, and the never ending battle is still going, but considering how there's a bajillion other benefits I don't really mind.
Deng Xioaping made China capitalist and open. 120 million are rich now, but 800 million remain poor. So it does not matter how mighty or rich China has become. It remains a poor nation, ruled by greed and capitalism.
The Chinese Communist Party has betrayed not only Marx and Lenin ( 1927) but also Mao ( 1983 ). There is nothing Marxist or socialist about this party. Only in name is the CCP the party of the working class. In reality they are the party of the Chinese capitalists and their money.
@UDSS Maoism was a failure so betrayal or not it does not matter. As the documentary have said, 200million were lifted from poverty and this was a fast track achievement compared to the West which took several times as long to get to where China is today. You have to take into consideration that there was famine and huge social and polical instability during the Mao era. Deng abolished them all. New policies, more room for freedom will come on due course as China continues to modernize itself.
TRY RUNNING A COUNTRY THE SIZE OF CHINA WITH ITS POPULATION....AND YOU KNOW WHAT PRESSURE TO DELIVER IS! THOSE STUPID COLLEGE KIDS DID ONE GOOD THING FOR CHINA......THEIR 2000 DEATHS HELPED.LESSEN COMPETITION FOR JOBS AND RESOURCES FOR THOSE WHO WERE SMART ENOUGH NOT TO BE AT TIENANMEN. SMALL PRICE TO PAY FOR SACRIFICE!!! THE JAPS SLAUGHTERED 300000 IN NANJING ALONE!
whatever it is or cruel or something in that kind of time .. deng was right ... if he don't do like that china will be over.. really ...........over.............. break..... america will rule the world ... thank god because of deng history change forever.. chinese stood up... again ... when i think back if student win in that situation america will be happy.. only china can face to face with america .. no other country is not as big as america ... well that is the history gave a face to china ..
China will change. It has done so many times in its millenniums of history and no doubt it will happen again. The crucial issue is timing. Further, I do not believe that a Western style democracy is what China needs. It'll be a lot of pain to have to discuss for 2 decades just to build a 200 kilometer railroad like in Switzerland and Sweden.
I am not a communist by any means. But the fact is had the communist party in China been toppled in Tienanmen, China would have collapsed just like the USSR. civil war would have broken out between moderates and hardliners and various factions and regions. Provinces like Xinjiang, Tibet and Taiwan would have seceded. Hong Kong and Macao would have never gone back to China. The economy would have collapse. There would be instability country wide starting from the country side to the cities.
man, I am somebody speaking to you from Chicago Illinois I am telling you because I am well informed about China. Its not the 7 head monster people say. There is a lot of dissent within the communist party in China. So much dissent that even Deng Xiaoping was kicked out of the leadership by the hardliners because of Tienanmen in 89 . There are various factions there. They have 80 million members and that is probably more than the republican and democratic parties combined
@madrid23 okay i apologise for my assumption then. but it looks like you are not well informed enough to know the truth about communist china. i wouldnt say you are wrong in every aspect, but there are seriously alot of stuff that you do not know about china yet. ok its 1240 am here for me, talk to you again dude. gdnight.
@chterrylee that is very naive to say. What about the Hitlers, the Mussolinis, the Tojos, the Suhartos, the Marcos, the Chiang Kai Sheks, the Francisco Francos, the Pinochets, the Salazars, the Mubarats, the Sadams Husseins, the military dictators of Taiwan, S. Korea, former S. Vietnam, Brazil, Argentina and Central America. Where they good? What about the Monarchists before them? what about the Church and the Mosque and the theocratic rules of the Vatican and Mecca ? Were they good?
@madrid23 i didn't say that the hitlers and suhartos are not evil, of course they are and maybe even worse than the chinese communists! that is the problem, the last century has seen the rise to prominence of too many evil governments. some have already been condemned by history like nazi and the soviet union. but some like n.korea, myanmar and yes communist china, are still there and getting stronger.
@chterrylee Oh, I don't think you need to worry about Myanmar. But I do agree with you, the 20th century was place to the most horrible governments in history. However the China of today is no longer the China of Mao. China has changed a lot and Chinese society has changed a lot as well. They would no longer accept the purges that took place during Mao's time. The Communist party (if you can call them that) has also changed. It is much more inclusive and much more moderate.
@madrid23 until the day the communist party admits to all the wrongdoings that it committed against its ppl including the cultural revolution, the prosecutions of rights lawyers, of student activists, of the activists family members, of the people who have been forcibly evicted from homes....and also to allow for democracy, freedom of speech, information, freedom of media and to implement the rule of law with a independent judiciary..else china will nvr be respected truly as a great nation
are you not expecting a little too much? China with its 5000 year old history from the Emperors to the Nationalists and Warlords never had as much freedom as it has today. Western countries like to tell the Chinese how to run China but the reality was that when they dominated various portions of China under colonialism and imperialism they treated the Chinese as slaves, drugged and exploited its people and humiliated them. The communist part of China has given China back its honor and dignity.
@chterrylee nah, nah, you don't need to apologize. China is a very big country, a very complicated country. I can guarantee you, its definitely not easy to govern a country like that. Specially at a time like now when its society is going through such tremendous changes in such a short time. Only one example in history can be compared. The Japanese transition from the feudal system to the ministerial system. Let us just hope that China does not make the same mistakes as Imperial Japan did.
@madrid23 yep i certainly i hope so too. i hope china evolves one day, i dunno how long they will take, but i hope that they evolve into a free society where ppl can live the chinese dream the way americans lived the american dream. but it wun be anytime soon though. catch up with hk and taiwan first before even thinking abt japan or america.
@chterrylee I think it will happen faster than you even think. You see as the middle class evolves and the wealthy bourgeoisie evolve they will demand more rights. The Communist party itself is going through a change itself. A new generation is coming in and the old guard from the Long March era are nearly all dead or dying off. They know that Chinese people would not admit the sort of purges and violation of their rights as they did during Mao.
@chterrylee plus Chinese people have open their eyes to the world. World wide ideas have filled the minds of the new Chinese generation and there will be a time when the newly appointed President of China will be educated in a foreign country. A new generation will come in. Right now, China's biggest problem is not lack of freedom. It is instead corruption, hypocrisy and inner party bickering. Trust me, freedom will come to China, these things take time. But it will by Chinese hands not foreign
if you want multi-party democracy, it can only be implemented by the Chinese people themselves from the ground up not by foreign intervention. And there is democracy within the Chinese communist party, its not like Hu Juntao can do whatever he wants. He has to answer to a lot of people and if he misbehaves trust me they would get rid of him. There is also dissent, exchange of ideas and place for discussion amongst various factions within a very heterogeneous 80 million member communist party
The Chinese communists party for a bunch of communists have turned out to be a bunch of damn good capitalists. They are about to beat us in our own game. But China under their supervision has also become more open, more metropolitan, more progressive and more inclusive. They have taken nearly 400 million people out of poverty in 1 generation. No one has ever done that in history. How did they do it? Well this same repressive regime allowed them much more efficiency and flexibility than our own.
@madrid23 yes china now has a capitalist economy. but it is by every mean still a repressive regime that will go at all cost to maintain its iron grip of rule, in essence, ruling by striking terror into those that have the slightest opposition. it is the country with the highest number of "conscience prisoners" imprisoned and where internet censorship of political content is at a ridiculous level and where freedom of religion is highly regulated. it is by no means a free country, long way to go.
@chterrylee Ah, right. The democratic countries are the good guys, aren't they? Thumping around in their boots, bringing freedom and democracy to the dark parts of the Earth like Iraq and Afghanistan. Shooting flowers from their batteries of howitzers and sending in the fleet of bombers dropping leaflets proclaiming love for human rights. Of course, everybody love them. Who wouldn't? The Iraqis keep sending surprise presents to the Americans to tell them how much they love democracy. Good times.
@RoniCMaster you cannot compare china with iraq or afganistan. i mean these really are different contexts. i know the americans did alot of wrong things in iraq and stuff and make n mistake i am no fan of the american war machine and some of the stupid decisions made by the american govt. but china is a different issue all together, the chinese ppl deserve better than all that repression they are suffering today.
@chterrylee I am comparing China with the United States. Why would I want to compare them to Iraq and Afghanistan? All I'm saying is, a democracy doesn't necessarily make a country better, especially not for China. It will be a logistical nightmare to democratically rule such a vast country. Also, a mob rule is as bad as you can get. Take a look at Swizerland where building a short railway across a mountain requires 20 years of discussions before they got the ball rolling.
@chterrylee Look at the United States who goes around policing the world in the name of democracy and human rights when in fact, it was serving the interests of a few who knows how to tell a convincing lie. Look, I know you have good intentions. But the real world cannot be built on ideals alone. I myself don't necessarily agree with the CCP, they've screwed up pretty bad at times but to their credit, they change China greatly in the last 20 years.
@chterrylee True that the CCP can be generally repressive but don't forget that this is an organization of 80 million people. Changing faces bring changing dynamics and ideas. Deng was a reformist among the Maoist and I don't doubt that within the 80 million strong CCP, there are other reformists who have a different idea than the prevailing collective on what China should be. Experiments on democracy are already being carried out at village and county levels, so relax.
@RoniCMaster i think u r being too optimistic. perhaps if you r free or if you have attained a certain level of mandarin, you can try and join one of the "chinese twitter" kind social media websites and you will know the truth. your so called "democracy experiments" done by the chinese govt are just a disguise for them to carry out their one party rule. please do not place any hope on the ccp being the good guy because history has proven that they are not and even now, they are proving it
@chterrylee As I said, you can't expect a total single-mindedness from a party of 80 million people. What, are you saying their all pure evil? Who knows how many factions there are, and each certainly have its own idea on how China should be run. The current prevailing one, for example, is more authoritarian than the prevailing one 20 years ago and the prevailing one 20 years ago were far more liberal than the Maoists preceding them. It is not a stagnant system that never changes you know.
@RoniCMaster isnt that the point. if the destiny of a country is decided by a individual or a group of individuals, then this system is doomed. as i said if you don;t believe me, immerse yourself in the chinese online world, and you will know the problems they have. anyway, the communists are alrdy very successful in brainwashing alot of their own ppl, i hope they dun claim overseas victims like you.
@chterrylee China is an ancient civilization and it will continue to stand long after the CCP dissolves one way or another. Of course, I still don't want to see a China with Western-style democracy. Many of these Western democratic countries are under intense problems today, economically and demographically. China needs to plot its own course, perhaps a new and unique form of government. One that can lead China to show the world another path. One different from that walked by the West today.
@RoniCMaster i have no idea what the long course of history has in place for china down the road no one will know exactly. all i know that currently, china is a time bomb waiting to explode because of the govt in place. unconvinced? just ask any independent chinese netizen that is not "manipulated" by the govt to spread propaganda. trust me, believing in the ccp is just like believing appeasing hitler will stop him from starting ww2 back in the war days. and i'm not being exxagerating.
@chterrylee Appeasing Hitler is an issue of foreign relations. But that aside, as I've always been trying to say, you have to look at both sides of the coin. There is nothing nothing in this world that is purely evil or purely good. Hitler was a dictator who brought disaster to Germany. But to his credit, he did end hyperinflation of the Weimar Republic. The CCP is a largely repressive regime, but they do catapult China into the world stage.
@RoniCMaster let me quote you what a chinese scholar said," if the rise of a country means showing off its military might and economic might, then i rather it not rise because at the end of the day, it will bring harm to itself and other countries. the rise of the china should be that of a cultural one." that says it all. catapult into the world stage? let me tell you, overseas chinese like me hate the communist regime. and people in china, well they dare not say, but they hate it as well
@chterrylee US is the world's most prominent democracy, but they do wage wars for their own benefit and keep certain foreign dictators in power. Sweden and the UK are two great European democracies, but their mass immigration policies are tearing these countries apart from within. Does looking at one side of the system tell me everything about a country? Is your optimism about democracy not a result of looking only at the good side of it while looking only at the bad side of every other system?
@RoniCMaster i know about all the bad side of democracy trust me and i know how easily the word "democracy" can be manipulated for political interests. i never said that democracy is perfect nor is it the sole solution. yet, i would think that it is the better of 2 evils as compared to authoritarian rule. when you have no free press, no free speech, no free information etc, what kind of society r u living in? just like capitalism has plenty of evils, but would you prefer communism instead then?
@chterrylee Nope, I wouldn't want Communism. I personally prefer a rule by technocrats. Anyway, with regards to governance, I don't think it matters so much what its ideology is, so long as it brings prosperity and the opportunity for happiness to its citizens. For that, the government must have its feet on the ground. There are many ways it can be achieved. Of which elections of leaders by popular vote is but one of them. China today is far more responsive to the needs of its citizenry cont.~
~cont. than it was 20 years ago. True, China is still far from being ideal. But I think we ought to allow it to go on and see where it goes. It might not become democratic and I honestly wouldn't want it to become democratic, because then, it would just be another Western country. I want to see if it will perhaps open another route, another system that will be more responsive to the people's needs and thoughts than a liberal democracy that continues to elect weak, incompetent leaders into power.
I want China to become genuine socialist. With a democratic planned economy and genuine democratic elected workers councils. China was never a socialist state, now it has become a wild capitalist state much like the Republic of China on Taiwan between 1949 and 1987, before democracy was introduced there.
A genuine democratic socialist China. Ruled not by capitalists or party bureaucrats, but by the workers and farmers themselves.
depeneds how u define democracy.....i like define democracy as the process of elect leader and representitave without sword.
free speech free media is only propaganda there is no such thing......there is only free speech and free media for the rich and cronies if you voice dont belong to them or oponent to them u just a mob for them.
Great documentary, the most unbiased I have ever seen produced by western media.
stardaveable 1 month ago
Deng XiaoPing hero of China!
jia2001 1 month ago
All those claiming China is not getting better than before are simply blind and illiterate. Admittedly, China has a rising inequality gap but never ever do Chinese poor become poorer - no data can support otherwise. (if you can't distinguish difference between simple concept of absolute and relative wealth then I suggests you should go back to primary school.)
By any living standards, Chinese poor are lot materialistically better off than before.
TKKTism 1 month ago
All those claiming China is not getting better than before are simply blind and illiterate. Admittedly, China has a rising inequality gap but never ever do Chinese poor become poorer - no data can support this claim. (if you can't distinguish difference between simple concept of absolute and relative wealth then I suggests you should go back to primary school.)
By any living standards, Chinese poor are lot materialistically better off than before.
TKKTism 1 month ago
This stupid British TV program!
dadaohanjian 2 months ago
邓小平最大的争仪就是六四.在此我要向死去的同胞感到可惜流泪.要是不这么做.有两种情况.一个就是国家陷入内乱.四分五裂.邓小平他可是从民初时代走过来的.人民所受的苦是可想而知的.又一种情况就是国家迈进民主时代.这个风陷可是很大的.还有外患了.要是内乱.很难说俄罗斯.美国印度不会伺机而动.对于一个出生在清朝.历经民国.抗日战争,解放战争,文革的人来说.结果可想而知.很难说对或错.在此再一次向死去的同胞鞠躬.
MrMingfengzou 2 months ago 2
now China is finally on the right track! i am proud!
huntingv8 2 months ago
In my opinion communism only works if the entire world decides to become communist. That way no country would have economic advantage over another and so you wouldn't get as great variation in living standards. Of course, this kind of unity would never happen, humans are inherently selfish and even in this modern world people are still obsessed with loss of national sovereignty.
maxibus141 2 months ago
邓小平真是一代伟人啊.没有他,香港,澳门能收回来吗? 换成中共现代领导班子.行吗?就连南海也保不住,以前还在清朝邦图之内.真是一朝不如一朝,民国时期丢掉外蒙古.中共现在南海这个样子.可怜啊可怜.要是邓公在,局面就不一样了.历史会永记住你的,深切怀念邓小平.
MrMingfengzou 3 months ago 3
One man's undying patriotic conviction even in his twilight of his years can still have seismic impact on his country. Wow what a leader !
twenlil 4 months ago 7
Long live china
shanesekiller 4 months ago
Chinese has its own demacratic too,don't expect every country will have the same demacratic as western world, then the world will not move forward. it is just not like western style demacrocy, our demacrocy is that we have election in only one party, and the drawback of two party is too much fight and transaction cost including the timing, one party is easy to resolve problem and get problem done efficiently.but we don't want a lot of state-owned company.
XU0038221 4 months ago
Ironic though that a year latter from September 22, 1990 to October 7, 1990 Beijing would host the Asian Games
WDI2008 6 months ago
Comment removed
MetamorphoseostouXR 6 months ago in playlist China's Capitalist Revolution
@arkers2010 Indeed, Deng Xiaoping was the who save china
X120120 6 months ago
China's success is due to its ability to adopt to new concepts like socialist capitalism.....It is glorious to be rich as long as it is shared by all the people..... : > )
Einstien1879 8 months ago
Thanks for sharing.
Always loved British documentaries compared to American ones, which are usually tainted with undesirable harping of American politics.
PorkIsHalal 8 months ago
amazing brilliant documentary . must watch.
sspkaran 8 months ago
i have to say china came a long way
semdavidanger 8 months ago
Deng Xiaoping one of the most important men in history !
chabi3000 9 months ago 3
what a load of crap.
taewiao 9 months ago
200 million lifted, 300 million still in deep poverty, part the daunting challenges China faces.
dojokonojo 9 months ago
邓小平可以说是给予了中国的新生，让中国从贫穷落后中脱离了出来。
可以说是洗刷了部分自17世纪以来的耻辱。
Lucienwangyilong 9 months ago 3
What is the name of the documentary thx.
1001014 9 months ago
Deng has to order the crash down, because he is faced with the most difficult choice in political history, that is when the ordinary people and the beauracratic
jimmyjamesWang 9 months ago
the world is a mix of everything through time. flow with the times. fucken smart man deng shao ping. rip.
tubxyoob 9 months ago
Damn, this guy is a genius. He managed to outmaneuvre all his opponents..at the AGE OF 87 no less!
lordangelic 9 months ago
Before Philipine 's president met with Deng, He said, the Spratly Islands is close to philipine , so the island should be mine, Deng said " you philipine is also close to China"
XU0038221 10 months ago
@XU0038221
check and mate.
twenlil 8 months ago
Now China is the pure capitalism in the side of suppressing worker but not absorb the other half of the capitalism which is giving money back to the general public which is also exactly socialism is about.
XU0038221 10 months ago
Capitalists loved Deng Xiaoping. He returend capitalism to China. In the end, the maoists betrayed their master Mao and made greedy capitalism their new lord.
Today China is ruled by greed. That greed made some people rich, but THIS IS NOT SOCIALISM. The Chinese Communist Party started their betrayal of communism in 1949 with Maoism, by 1983 capitalism was reintroduced. The failure of Maoism lead to the return of that system that the CCP was suppose to destroy.
UDSS 10 months ago
@UDSS After 1949, Maoism is not communism. Please tell me who you think can represent the then communist? Now who is ? Then where do you think the real success of real communism ?
yangyunjin 10 months ago
This is a bunch of propaganda ...
HK379 10 months ago
@HK379 lol of who? the west? ur just spoon feed bullshit by ur nation and now cant accept the truth.
ervin920 9 months ago
@ervin920
nope . thats you .
HK379 9 months ago
democracy of china = end of power, thats why usa, eu will support this movement
jamZbawca 11 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
You should say for Libya that Qadaffi did what was necessary??
ROFLMAO
If you agree an evil genocider killing their own people in China, you have to agree to every goddamn GENOCIDERS on this planet and believe me there are a lot of NEPOTIC DICTATORS out there ;)
Long live Freedom and Democracy in China and Tibet
DemocracynowChina 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
You should say for Libya that Qadaffi did what was necessary??
ROFLMAO
If you agree an evil genocider killing their own people in China, you have to agree to every goddamn GENOCIDERS on this planet and believe me there are a lot of NEPOTIC DICTATORS out there ;)
Long live Freedom and Democracy in China and Tibet
DemocracynowChina 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
You should say for Libya that Qadaffi did what was necessary??
ROFLMAO
If you agree an evil genocider killing their own people in China, you have to agree to every goddamn GENOCIDERS on this planet and believe me there are a lot of NEPOTIC DICTATORS out there ;)
Long live Freedom and Democracy in China and Tibet
DemocracynowChina 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@DemocracynowChina Funny thing is English is not your language. You make yourself look like a stupid ass yellow bitch troll because you are @DemocracynowChina (aka, Taiwanese Chink SHIT-EATER), you even use the same BAD English that Taiwaneses are famous for, and laugh at your retarded wit. Then you produce so many posts like the pathetic loser that you are. #LOL
hujintaomustresign33 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@DemocracynowChina You make yourself look like a stupid ass yellow bitch troll because you are Taiwanese Chink SHIT-EATER, you even use the same BAD English that Taiwaneses are famous for, and laugh at your retarded wit. Then you produce so many posts like the pathetic loser that you are. #LOL
hujintaomustresign33 1 year ago
♦♦♦ ATTENTION ♦♦♦
@DemocracynowChina = Taiwanese Chink SHIT-EATER
A 27-year-old Unemployable Taiwanese Native suffers from Psychiatric Disorder in Canada. The sicko has problem with social interaction with people, so he has to channel his desire for communication in a perverted way and becomes an anti-China psycho on YouTube 24 x 7 x 52 x 3 yrs.
He eats shit for a living and bullshits like an idiot in weird Taiwanese English to seek attention and boast his very low self-esteem. #LOL
hujintaomustresign0 1 year ago 26
@hujintaomustresign0
You don't hold back, do you?
WSWarthog 11 months ago
though its contradictory a mixture of all government system would be the best and constant overview would be the best.
TimeManInJail 1 year ago
@TimeManInJail LOl Chinese government is NOT A MIXTURE of anything, it`s just a brutal CAPITALIST FASCIST THUGSTATE :)
DemocracynowChina 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@TimeManInJail FYI : @DemocracynowChina is a YouTube-dwelling yellow IDIOT who makes incoherent comments on many videos and finds pleasure in his own stupidity 24 x 7, 365 x 3 yrs. He obviously develops inferiority complex in the real world and needs to vent his frustrations in the virtual world, cyberspace #LOL
hujintaomustresign0 1 year ago
I wish I could've met Deng in person. =/
1XMarksSpot 1 year ago 3
@1XMarksSpot So he would have shot you? :)
Deng Xiaoping is the 1 responsible for the brutal TIAN AN MEN BRUTAL MASSACRE :)
DemocracynowChina 1 year ago
@DemocracynowChina Why would Deng have shot me if it was arranged ahead of time that I would be meeting him in person? You don't make sense.
For Tiananmen Square, Deng did what was necessary at the time. China was in transition and stability was necessary so the country would not fall apart in civil unrest. It's not like the Chinese leadership did not do everything in their power to negotiate with the student leaders. It was the student leaders that were arrogant and uncompromising.
1XMarksSpot 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@1XMarksSpot Why would Deng have shot me if it was arranged ahead of time that I would be meeting him in person? You don't make sense.
Because he likes to shoot children
DemocracynowChina 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
@1XMarksSpot Killing students is Deng Xiaoping`s favorite job ;)
DemocracynowChina 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@1XMarksSpot For Tiananmen Square, Deng did what was necessary at the time.
Sure and Qadaffi is doing what`s necessary at this time right? :)
Yeah right, the Chinese leaders kept tryign to slander the students all the time, they never wanted to negotiate most of them agreed to shoot them since the beginning they were just faking the negociations, they didn`t want to do it forreal
DemocracynowChina 1 year ago
@1XMarksSpot It was the student leaders that were arrogant and uncompromising.
The first thing students wanted is GOVERNMENTAL reforms and less corruption, CCP didn`t comply, that was a SIPMLE demand
You call that compromising??
ROFLMAO, don`t make me laugh you BRAINWASHED CCP DRONE :)
DemocracynowChina 1 year ago
The yellow bitch @DemocracynowChina (aka, Taiwanese Chink SHIT-EATER) has 100+ “pedophile” troll accounts, these are hidden because she is a yellow troll bitch pedophile, they are @rebecca9532 and @fortunesinf[1,2,3,…50], nothing but the same kind of retarded posts that target children, that Taiwanese Chink SHIT-EATER posts #LOL
hujintaomustresign0 1 year ago 12
@hujintaomustresign0 Geez what`s smells? :)
Oh it`s just a CHINKROACH :)
DemocracynowChina 1 year ago
@DemocracynowChina the only chink roach here, is you.
ervin920 1 year ago
@ervin920 You are a Chinkroach, when was the last time you wash yourself? :)
DemocracynowChina 1 year ago
@DemocracynowChina <-------- TAIWANESE SHIT-EATER. WARNING, NO LIFE, RETARDED. FUCK TAIWAN.
ervin920 1 year ago 5
@ervin920 So now you are on propaganda duty? ROFLMAO
So are you gonna harrass YOUTUBE users and spam hate speech all the time :)
Why are you so jealous of Taiwan, Taiwan is a nice country if you compare it to SHITCHINA :)
ROFLMAO
DemocracynowChina 1 year ago
Fuck you son of bitch
junbinwang8888 2 months ago
邓小平所要坚持的不是自己的主义，而是坚持改革开放的路子。
robbiewangyang 1 year ago 2
事实证明，邓小平当时6.4做的对的，为中国未来变强国打好了基础。
他是伟人，
owenqz 1 year ago 5
@owenqz 回头看看，才知道小平是多么的不易。天安门一帮傻学生阿，就是高估自己能力的典型例子。唉
robbiewangyang 1 year ago 2
is it normal that i shed a tear for deng in the last moments of this documentary
thearsenalfan93 1 year ago
@thearsenalfan93
You're not alone. I started crying when I was watching the part about the Maoist coming back and here's a 87 year old Deng fighting back.
Mennion3 1 year ago
This documentary has been eye opening. I thank you for posting this information. It's a shame many people watch irrelevant trash like Chocolate Rain when they should be trying to understand the world around them. Again, it's the consequence of capitalism and the freedom to choose.
rex22neo 1 year ago
I'd rather have Deng as a leader than that rotten tooth madman Mao.
jubetuber 1 year ago 3
awesome documentary! thanks for uploading!!!
Juliusabcd 1 year ago
Comrade Deng, I Salute You!!!
vwazp 1 year ago
China is a 5000 year old civilization. How could these naive students expected the government to quickly solve the early hiccups of Deng Xiaoping's sweeping capitalist reforms after only having enacted them a mere decade earlier. Such smooth transition takes very gradual step by step reforms ... especially after so many centuries of feudalist, imperialist, communist & socialists policies that have been drilled into the culture of the Chinese. I loudly applaud Deng's amazing Capitalist reforms!
mmarkwardt 1 year ago 2
Deng Xiaoping you are a great man
moneyloverify 1 year ago
MAO: he lead the people to revolt against fudalism, and landlords. he told the peasents to rise up against slavery. so he isn't the evil dictator ppl think he was.
DENG: he was right, goverment and busniss shouldn't go together. he taught us to change.
HU: with deng's powerful economy, hu jintao will make china powerful again.
ervin920 1 year ago
It seems Russia is heading China's direction by using 'Controlled Capitalism'. As long as the people are making $, who cares about not getting freedom of speech.
cdfchung 1 year ago 3
Comment removed
LEISL1990 1 year ago
It is the duty of every true citizen of the world to oppose at every turn, and to work for the annihilation of, every vicious autocratic regime. This certainly includes the Communist Party of China, but we should not forget the State Peace and Development Council in Myanmar, the National Congress Party in Sudan, Kim's Korean Worker's Party, and Putin's United Russia.
TacticusPrime 1 year ago
great documentary thanks for uploading. one of the best and most significant documentary for today's world.
sspkaran 1 year ago
"To get rich is glorious" - what do people think of this?
thrylusk 1 year ago 14
@thrylusk Must the method to get rich be ethical?
thrylusk 1 year ago
Of course it should be ethical, or else you are hurting other people. Of course, what do you define being rich? To simply live well, as most people in developed nations do, or to live better than others? A lot of people who chase money want the latter. Naturally they just want to have superior wealth to others, and don't care about breaking rules.
Renegen1 1 year ago
@thrylusk atrocious quote... which lead directly to today's "to hate the rich is just" lol. actually, there is an even better quote from Central Military Committee boss Liu Huaqing (who recently passed away) "The Army shall protect the reform regardless of means!" Here you got guns literally pointing at the economically disadvantaged.
EPsuperFan 1 year ago
@thrylusk i think it mean if china strong (economic) then the CCP will live on
sokata96shisuju 1 year ago
@thrylusk
A.Communism fails because of the idea behind it is to perfect, sadly we are not.
B.Capitalism thrives of the greed and envy in us, part of our human nature as a species.
C Socialism could be the best or the world of both worlds.
My choice would be (C) in a certain moderation...
akulabite 1 year ago
@akulabite
And bankrupting like Europe?
flamingtroll 1 year ago
@flamingtroll Bankrupt because of Socialism? Dont be ridiculous. its obvious that you have no Idea why the global economy (including USA) is in hardship.
akulabite 1 year ago
@akulabite
I am sure overspending by the governments, a lot of which went into inefficient social programs is a big part of it. And that's the kind of thing socialist countries eventually get themselves into until they go through bouts of austerity . Too bad even that wont work this time. Best of both worlds according to would usually ends up to be the worst of both worlds, for the same reasons as A and B.
flamingtroll 1 year ago
@flamingtroll Yup usually ends up the worst of both worlds just like France, Germany , Norway , Sweden , Great Brittan. Countries like them right? The reason Socialism fails is because of HUMAN GREED, The same elements found in abundance in A & B.
akulabite 1 year ago
@akulabite Which is why all those countries have higher life expectancies and lower working hours than the USA.
AtomicPiggy123 1 year ago
@akulabite There will be never pure system which is right, The right one is alwyas the mixed one
XU0038221 10 months ago
@thrylusk depens how you get rich ...wealth is good i think you can do with other good things..
MrEestimaa 1 year ago
@thrylusk A communist who says to get rich is glorious is like a Fascist saying that Democracy is good
ROFLMAO
DemocracynowChina 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@DemocracynowChina is just a Taiwanese Chink SHIT-EATER who is impersonating others in order to avoid losing face by showing how inferior he is to the rest of the planet, in fact he is a Taiwanese dog that eats dog feeces at every meals of his life. He is on Youtube busy trolling 24/7 365 days a year sometimes 366 eating shit all the time and showing how stupid and retarded he is :) #LOL
hujintaomustresign0 1 year ago
@thrylusk
Not merely to get rich but to exercise your talents and to get rich by improving the world.
WSWarthog 11 months ago
@thrylusk Small business is wholesome - but billions of profits while people are unemployed is unethical.
LazarusRemains 7 months ago
@thrylusk What do Americans do everyday? Give to charity?
jonathanparis1988 7 months ago
What the CCP did was betrayal. Betrayal to Maoism, but also to Marxism Leninism in general. Is today's China better than Mao's China? Yes, for 120 million Chinese. But 800 million people remain just as poor as they were under Mao. China is still a totalitarian state, and 7 out of 8 China's workers do not enjoy a western live style.
China's capitalist revolution came because Maoism failed. They failed because their system was not based on workers democracy and democratic socialism.
UDSS 1 year ago
@UDSS
Here is the thing, if the method prove to be not working, we ditch it and find a better method. That's what Deng xiaoping did, pure and simple. Karl Marx is German guy who lived in the 19th century and Lenin is a Russian guy who lived at the dawn of 20th century. Why exactly would Chinese people keep following their work? And 800 million people just as poor as they were 40 years ago? Are we talking about the China on Earth or some fictional land you dreamed up?
holyseraph 1 year ago
@UDSS Under Mao, around 60 million Chinese died, either killed by starvation or by their relatives. With regards to democracy, you can't expect it to happen overnight and work well. Even the United States, which declared the equality of man in 1776, took a century to extend the rhetoric to the blacks, another 4o years to extend voting rights to women and 200 years to effectively give democracy to all citizens. Changing to democracy overnight is what the USSR did and look what happened.
RoniCMaster 11 months ago
Deng`s leadership was the key to China and indeed they are going to dominate the world in the next century if they keep loving CONTROLED CAPTLISM as far as polistcs.. they are fine and they are a love component that would last for the next decade. i think Russia is headed this way but it need some kind of leaders with new vision that would take Russia and its economy to the dreams that they never though of.
regrego 1 year ago
Comment removed
darkhabsburg 1 year ago
FUCK YEA! DENG IS THE BEST!
CamelBallZee 1 year ago
Ultimately, the whole world should take the teachings of Tai Chi and Yin Yang, and of the classics of Chinese civilization which talk about keeping a balance in life. Too much democracy means change takes forever, too much central control breads corruption since absolute power corrupts absolutely. Too many democrats running the house and you get too soft and setup ineffective government corporations, too many republicans and you become too tough on foreign countries. Yin Yang balance in all life
wushumaro 1 year ago
It always puzzles me when one view the world in black and white, i.e. capitalism is bad, communism is good and the vis-versa. Capitalism does exemplifies the greed in human, but communism leads to stagnation. Neither are desirable.
thrylusk 1 year ago 16
@thrylusk
It annoys me when people criticize to no end. The systems may both have problems, but to satisfy yourself with the rejection of both and offer no alternatives...
To quote Zaph Bennagan; "What makes a man turn neutral?"
It's so simple, capitalism works, socialism fails. Just because the system is not "equal" does not make it unfair.
TaqiyyaExposer 1 year ago
@thrylusk so if none are desirable what other option do we have left?
gqptyu 1 year ago
@gqptyu Mix of both.
thrylusk 1 year ago 27
@thrylusk Look at china. Now look at America. Somehow I think a mixture of both doesn't work so well.
Yes, capitalism make the rich richer, and the never ending battle is still going, but considering how there's a bajillion other benefits I don't really mind.
Exor5445 1 year ago
@thrylusk This is exactly what U.S. and China doing and continue doing .
XU0038221 10 months ago
@thrylusk Capitalism and communism arn't the only ideologies.
There is monarchy, theocracy, fascism, anarchism, social democracy, and many others.
But it is best not to have any ideology - just do what works.
Right now, most of the world is too consumerist - thats why people are getting fat and dying quicker.
LazarusRemains 7 months ago
Deng Xioaping made China capitalist and open. 120 million are rich now, but 800 million remain poor. So it does not matter how mighty or rich China has become. It remains a poor nation, ruled by greed and capitalism.
The Chinese Communist Party has betrayed not only Marx and Lenin ( 1927) but also Mao ( 1983 ). There is nothing Marxist or socialist about this party. Only in name is the CCP the party of the working class. In reality they are the party of the Chinese capitalists and their money.
UDSS 1 year ago
Comment removed
pakjai 1 year ago
@UDSS Maoism was a failure so betrayal or not it does not matter. As the documentary have said, 200million were lifted from poverty and this was a fast track achievement compared to the West which took several times as long to get to where China is today. You have to take into consideration that there was famine and huge social and polical instability during the Mao era. Deng abolished them all. New policies, more room for freedom will come on due course as China continues to modernize itself.
pakjai 1 year ago 2
TRY RUNNING A COUNTRY THE SIZE OF CHINA WITH ITS POPULATION....AND YOU KNOW WHAT PRESSURE TO DELIVER IS! THOSE STUPID COLLEGE KIDS DID ONE GOOD THING FOR CHINA......THEIR 2000 DEATHS HELPED.LESSEN COMPETITION FOR JOBS AND RESOURCES FOR THOSE WHO WERE SMART ENOUGH NOT TO BE AT TIENANMEN. SMALL PRICE TO PAY FOR SACRIFICE!!! THE JAPS SLAUGHTERED 300000 IN NANJING ALONE!
taikogi 1 year ago
whatever it is or cruel or something in that kind of time .. deng was right ... if he don't do like that china will be over.. really ...........over.............. break..... america will rule the world ... thank god because of deng history change forever.. chinese stood up... again ... when i think back if student win in that situation america will be happy.. only china can face to face with america .. no other country is not as big as america ... well that is the history gave a face to china ..
devilsoe 1 year ago
RIP Deng Xiaoping... and fuck you college kids! if you tease the cat expect it to bite!
Sexisttroll 1 year ago
OMG GEORGE BUSH SR, THE FATHER OF TERRORIST GEORGE BUSH
917893678251 1 year ago
@917893678251 Bush senior was a good statesman and war hero. He was also a skilled diplomat and leader. A good president.
TheLoyalOfficer 1 year ago
@TheLoyalOfficer But his son was just terrible
917893678251 1 year ago
@917893678251 Yeah, pretty much, unfortunately.
TheLoyalOfficer 1 year ago
Thanks a lot students! You brought back the Maoists and killed the transition to democracy. Thanks a lot. Now I know who cause it.
RoniCMaster 1 year ago
Well, the students weren't even willing to negotiate. If you push someone into a corner, you should expect retaliation.
RoniCMaster 1 year ago
China will change. It has done so many times in its millenniums of history and no doubt it will happen again. The crucial issue is timing. Further, I do not believe that a Western style democracy is what China needs. It'll be a lot of pain to have to discuss for 2 decades just to build a 200 kilometer railroad like in Switzerland and Sweden.
RoniCMaster 1 year ago
Deng Xiaoping is the true leader of China. He's the reason why China is now the second largest economy in the world.
Sponxic 1 year ago
Fuck all the students. The Party and soldiers were right to shoot them.
jackson123123123 1 year ago
omg David Suchet's the narrator? awesome
qhlpp 1 year ago
Deng is a national hero
triggersots4686 1 year ago
@MsBryanfreeman ppl who call others shit are shit themselves
chterrylee 1 year ago
I am not a communist by any means. But the fact is had the communist party in China been toppled in Tienanmen, China would have collapsed just like the USSR. civil war would have broken out between moderates and hardliners and various factions and regions. Provinces like Xinjiang, Tibet and Taiwan would have seceded. Hong Kong and Macao would have never gone back to China. The economy would have collapse. There would be instability country wide starting from the country side to the cities.
madrid23 1 year ago
@madrid23 are u a mainlander?
chterrylee 1 year ago
@madrid23 answer me, are u a mainlander. or do you not dare to answer?
chterrylee 1 year ago
man, I am somebody speaking to you from Chicago Illinois I am telling you because I am well informed about China. Its not the 7 head monster people say. There is a lot of dissent within the communist party in China. So much dissent that even Deng Xiaoping was kicked out of the leadership by the hardliners because of Tienanmen in 89 . There are various factions there. They have 80 million members and that is probably more than the republican and democratic parties combined
madrid23 1 year ago
@madrid23 okay i apologise for my assumption then. but it looks like you are not well informed enough to know the truth about communist china. i wouldnt say you are wrong in every aspect, but there are seriously alot of stuff that you do not know about china yet. ok its 1240 am here for me, talk to you again dude. gdnight.
chterrylee 1 year ago
all communists are evil, the soviets, the chinese communists..no difference..look what they have done to the world? horrendous!
chterrylee 1 year ago
@chterrylee that is very naive to say. What about the Hitlers, the Mussolinis, the Tojos, the Suhartos, the Marcos, the Chiang Kai Sheks, the Francisco Francos, the Pinochets, the Salazars, the Mubarats, the Sadams Husseins, the military dictators of Taiwan, S. Korea, former S. Vietnam, Brazil, Argentina and Central America. Where they good? What about the Monarchists before them? what about the Church and the Mosque and the theocratic rules of the Vatican and Mecca ? Were they good?
madrid23 1 year ago
@madrid23 i didn't say that the hitlers and suhartos are not evil, of course they are and maybe even worse than the chinese communists! that is the problem, the last century has seen the rise to prominence of too many evil governments. some have already been condemned by history like nazi and the soviet union. but some like n.korea, myanmar and yes communist china, are still there and getting stronger.
chterrylee 1 year ago
@chterrylee Oh, I don't think you need to worry about Myanmar. But I do agree with you, the 20th century was place to the most horrible governments in history. However the China of today is no longer the China of Mao. China has changed a lot and Chinese society has changed a lot as well. They would no longer accept the purges that took place during Mao's time. The Communist party (if you can call them that) has also changed. It is much more inclusive and much more moderate.
madrid23 1 year ago
@madrid23 until the day the communist party admits to all the wrongdoings that it committed against its ppl including the cultural revolution, the prosecutions of rights lawyers, of student activists, of the activists family members, of the people who have been forcibly evicted from homes....and also to allow for democracy, freedom of speech, information, freedom of media and to implement the rule of law with a independent judiciary..else china will nvr be respected truly as a great nation
chterrylee 1 year ago
are you not expecting a little too much? China with its 5000 year old history from the Emperors to the Nationalists and Warlords never had as much freedom as it has today. Western countries like to tell the Chinese how to run China but the reality was that when they dominated various portions of China under colonialism and imperialism they treated the Chinese as slaves, drugged and exploited its people and humiliated them. The communist part of China has given China back its honor and dignity.
madrid23 1 year ago
@madrid23 如果你是中国人，那我想我没必要再和你争论下去。就如韩寒所说：“永远不要试着叫醒一个装睡的人。” 一个不求进步的人你又有什么方法逼他？还是等历史时机成熟后让他自己觉醒吧
if u ain't a mainlander or cannot understand mandarin, then i apologise for my assumption.
chterrylee 1 year ago
@chterrylee nah, nah, you don't need to apologize. China is a very big country, a very complicated country. I can guarantee you, its definitely not easy to govern a country like that. Specially at a time like now when its society is going through such tremendous changes in such a short time. Only one example in history can be compared. The Japanese transition from the feudal system to the ministerial system. Let us just hope that China does not make the same mistakes as Imperial Japan did.
madrid23 1 year ago
@madrid23 yep i certainly i hope so too. i hope china evolves one day, i dunno how long they will take, but i hope that they evolve into a free society where ppl can live the chinese dream the way americans lived the american dream. but it wun be anytime soon though. catch up with hk and taiwan first before even thinking abt japan or america.
chterrylee 1 year ago
@chterrylee I think it will happen faster than you even think. You see as the middle class evolves and the wealthy bourgeoisie evolve they will demand more rights. The Communist party itself is going through a change itself. A new generation is coming in and the old guard from the Long March era are nearly all dead or dying off. They know that Chinese people would not admit the sort of purges and violation of their rights as they did during Mao.
madrid23 1 year ago
@chterrylee plus Chinese people have open their eyes to the world. World wide ideas have filled the minds of the new Chinese generation and there will be a time when the newly appointed President of China will be educated in a foreign country. A new generation will come in. Right now, China's biggest problem is not lack of freedom. It is instead corruption, hypocrisy and inner party bickering. Trust me, freedom will come to China, these things take time. But it will by Chinese hands not foreign
madrid23 1 year ago
if you want multi-party democracy, it can only be implemented by the Chinese people themselves from the ground up not by foreign intervention. And there is democracy within the Chinese communist party, its not like Hu Juntao can do whatever he wants. He has to answer to a lot of people and if he misbehaves trust me they would get rid of him. There is also dissent, exchange of ideas and place for discussion amongst various factions within a very heterogeneous 80 million member communist party
madrid23 1 year ago
The Chinese communists party for a bunch of communists have turned out to be a bunch of damn good capitalists. They are about to beat us in our own game. But China under their supervision has also become more open, more metropolitan, more progressive and more inclusive. They have taken nearly 400 million people out of poverty in 1 generation. No one has ever done that in history. How did they do it? Well this same repressive regime allowed them much more efficiency and flexibility than our own.
madrid23 1 year ago
@madrid23 yes china now has a capitalist economy. but it is by every mean still a repressive regime that will go at all cost to maintain its iron grip of rule, in essence, ruling by striking terror into those that have the slightest opposition. it is the country with the highest number of "conscience prisoners" imprisoned and where internet censorship of political content is at a ridiculous level and where freedom of religion is highly regulated. it is by no means a free country, long way to go.
chterrylee 1 year ago
@chterrylee Ah, right. The democratic countries are the good guys, aren't they? Thumping around in their boots, bringing freedom and democracy to the dark parts of the Earth like Iraq and Afghanistan. Shooting flowers from their batteries of howitzers and sending in the fleet of bombers dropping leaflets proclaiming love for human rights. Of course, everybody love them. Who wouldn't? The Iraqis keep sending surprise presents to the Americans to tell them how much they love democracy. Good times.
RoniCMaster 1 year ago
@RoniCMaster you cannot compare china with iraq or afganistan. i mean these really are different contexts. i know the americans did alot of wrong things in iraq and stuff and make n mistake i am no fan of the american war machine and some of the stupid decisions made by the american govt. but china is a different issue all together, the chinese ppl deserve better than all that repression they are suffering today.
chterrylee 1 year ago
@chterrylee I am comparing China with the United States. Why would I want to compare them to Iraq and Afghanistan? All I'm saying is, a democracy doesn't necessarily make a country better, especially not for China. It will be a logistical nightmare to democratically rule such a vast country. Also, a mob rule is as bad as you can get. Take a look at Swizerland where building a short railway across a mountain requires 20 years of discussions before they got the ball rolling.
RoniCMaster 1 year ago
@chterrylee Look at the United States who goes around policing the world in the name of democracy and human rights when in fact, it was serving the interests of a few who knows how to tell a convincing lie. Look, I know you have good intentions. But the real world cannot be built on ideals alone. I myself don't necessarily agree with the CCP, they've screwed up pretty bad at times but to their credit, they change China greatly in the last 20 years.
RoniCMaster 1 year ago
@chterrylee True that the CCP can be generally repressive but don't forget that this is an organization of 80 million people. Changing faces bring changing dynamics and ideas. Deng was a reformist among the Maoist and I don't doubt that within the 80 million strong CCP, there are other reformists who have a different idea than the prevailing collective on what China should be. Experiments on democracy are already being carried out at village and county levels, so relax.
RoniCMaster 1 year ago
@RoniCMaster i think u r being too optimistic. perhaps if you r free or if you have attained a certain level of mandarin, you can try and join one of the "chinese twitter" kind social media websites and you will know the truth. your so called "democracy experiments" done by the chinese govt are just a disguise for them to carry out their one party rule. please do not place any hope on the ccp being the good guy because history has proven that they are not and even now, they are proving it
chterrylee 1 year ago
@chterrylee As I said, you can't expect a total single-mindedness from a party of 80 million people. What, are you saying their all pure evil? Who knows how many factions there are, and each certainly have its own idea on how China should be run. The current prevailing one, for example, is more authoritarian than the prevailing one 20 years ago and the prevailing one 20 years ago were far more liberal than the Maoists preceding them. It is not a stagnant system that never changes you know.
RoniCMaster 1 year ago
@RoniCMaster isnt that the point. if the destiny of a country is decided by a individual or a group of individuals, then this system is doomed. as i said if you don;t believe me, immerse yourself in the chinese online world, and you will know the problems they have. anyway, the communists are alrdy very successful in brainwashing alot of their own ppl, i hope they dun claim overseas victims like you.
chterrylee 1 year ago
@chterrylee China is an ancient civilization and it will continue to stand long after the CCP dissolves one way or another. Of course, I still don't want to see a China with Western-style democracy. Many of these Western democratic countries are under intense problems today, economically and demographically. China needs to plot its own course, perhaps a new and unique form of government. One that can lead China to show the world another path. One different from that walked by the West today.
RoniCMaster 1 year ago
@RoniCMaster i have no idea what the long course of history has in place for china down the road no one will know exactly. all i know that currently, china is a time bomb waiting to explode because of the govt in place. unconvinced? just ask any independent chinese netizen that is not "manipulated" by the govt to spread propaganda. trust me, believing in the ccp is just like believing appeasing hitler will stop him from starting ww2 back in the war days. and i'm not being exxagerating.
chterrylee 1 year ago
@chterrylee Appeasing Hitler is an issue of foreign relations. But that aside, as I've always been trying to say, you have to look at both sides of the coin. There is nothing nothing in this world that is purely evil or purely good. Hitler was a dictator who brought disaster to Germany. But to his credit, he did end hyperinflation of the Weimar Republic. The CCP is a largely repressive regime, but they do catapult China into the world stage.
RoniCMaster 1 year ago
@RoniCMaster let me quote you what a chinese scholar said," if the rise of a country means showing off its military might and economic might, then i rather it not rise because at the end of the day, it will bring harm to itself and other countries. the rise of the china should be that of a cultural one." that says it all. catapult into the world stage? let me tell you, overseas chinese like me hate the communist regime. and people in china, well they dare not say, but they hate it as well
chterrylee 1 year ago
@chterrylee US is the world's most prominent democracy, but they do wage wars for their own benefit and keep certain foreign dictators in power. Sweden and the UK are two great European democracies, but their mass immigration policies are tearing these countries apart from within. Does looking at one side of the system tell me everything about a country? Is your optimism about democracy not a result of looking only at the good side of it while looking only at the bad side of every other system?
RoniCMaster 1 year ago
@RoniCMaster i know about all the bad side of democracy trust me and i know how easily the word "democracy" can be manipulated for political interests. i never said that democracy is perfect nor is it the sole solution. yet, i would think that it is the better of 2 evils as compared to authoritarian rule. when you have no free press, no free speech, no free information etc, what kind of society r u living in? just like capitalism has plenty of evils, but would you prefer communism instead then?
chterrylee 1 year ago
@chterrylee Nope, I wouldn't want Communism. I personally prefer a rule by technocrats. Anyway, with regards to governance, I don't think it matters so much what its ideology is, so long as it brings prosperity and the opportunity for happiness to its citizens. For that, the government must have its feet on the ground. There are many ways it can be achieved. Of which elections of leaders by popular vote is but one of them. China today is far more responsive to the needs of its citizenry cont.~
RoniCMaster 11 months ago
~cont. than it was 20 years ago. True, China is still far from being ideal. But I think we ought to allow it to go on and see where it goes. It might not become democratic and I honestly wouldn't want it to become democratic, because then, it would just be another Western country. I want to see if it will perhaps open another route, another system that will be more responsive to the people's needs and thoughts than a liberal democracy that continues to elect weak, incompetent leaders into power.
RoniCMaster 11 months ago
@RoniCMaster
I want China to become genuine socialist. With a democratic planned economy and genuine democratic elected workers councils. China was never a socialist state, now it has become a wild capitalist state much like the Republic of China on Taiwan between 1949 and 1987, before democracy was introduced there.
A genuine democratic socialist China. Ruled not by capitalists or party bureaucrats, but by the workers and farmers themselves.
UDSS 10 months ago
@chterrylee
depeneds how u define democracy.....i like define democracy as the process of elect leader and representitave without sword.
free speech free media is only propaganda there is no such thing......there is only free speech and free media for the rich and cronies if you voice dont belong to them or oponent to them u just a mob for them.
nazifdaniel 3 months ago
the students F***ed China's democracy
warakawa3 1 year ago