Please read my 2 Novels. Devils with Wings, assault on Eben Emael, and Devils with Wings: Silk Drop, Crete. My third Novel will be set in northern Russia. HB
The Greeks in the battle of Crete fought with knifes and stones so they can capture a German's gun and fight with it. The only reason that Crete felt was that British soliders removed the defences from an airport. And Germans caprured it. The battle of Crete last enough and made trouble to Germans who left Russia alone and sent troops to Crete. Russians had time to prepare and with the second attack of Germans Russians fucked them. So it was a really good thing that Crete last so much...
bATTLE OF CRETE MAY 1941 GERMAN LOSSES... 4.500 PARATROOPERS.. 200 ARMORED VEHICLES.. 45 AEROPLANES.. 700 PRISONERS.. 500 MISSING.. AND THE DElay ATTACK TO RIUSSIA HITLERS DECLARATION.. crete showed the end of paratroopers.. DURING THE SO CALLE D OCCUPATION 2500 GERMAN DEAD 2 GENERALS CAPTURED.. 1500 PRISONERS 500 OF THEM EXECUTED BY REBELS FOR CRIMES Against THE BIG GREEK NATION.. NAZIS PAYED HARD PRICE!1
the battle for Kriti was a blood bath for the Germans they lost so many men and Hitler ended any further paratrooper attacks on any other country. Thanks to the Greek people of Kriti.
Freybergs force dispositions were basically sound and focused primarily on airborne, rather than seaborne assault. It was Brigadier Hargests failure to counter-attack the enemy lodgment at Maleme as directed by Freyberg in orders which led to defeat " Thus on the evening of 20 May the mass of the New Zealand 5th Brigade, including more than 1,600 unwounded infantry, the core of the New Zealand Division, were allowed to settle for the night in misguided and short-lived tranquility.
I dont know where you get your info from, but In fact Ultra Signal OL2168 gives the impression of 3 mountain regiments deploying by sea, strengthening Freybergs reasonable assumption that the seaborne component could be decisive. Freyberg could hardly ignore up to 10,000 troops complete with tanks, antiaircraft guns and 64 artillery arriving at Crete some time, and at undetermined locations,after the first landings by parachute and glider.
You say that Freyberg was obsessed with seaborne invasion, but in fact his Operational Order No. 10 shows that he actually disposed his forces to defend against a heavy airborne assault supported by a seaborne attack. Sector commanders were allocated what resources and equipment were available to form strong static defensive positions supported by a mobile counter-attacking force. it was the inability of his subordinates, for whatever reason, to follow his plan which led to defeat.
If you look closely at the events which unfolded, particularly around Maleme. I think you will find that it was poor tactical leadership by his subordinate comanders and their failure to execute the operational plan which cost Freyberg the battle.
Yet, despite this, the case may be made that Crete could have been held. Had 22 Battalion not fallen back on the night of 20 May, had Col. Andrew and his men, decided instead, to fight to the death, had the counter-attack come on 21 May or earlier on the night of 21 May, the enemy might have been driven off the airfield and the defence reorganised. We will never know.
The strategic decision to aid Greece was at fault here. The defence of Crete was a tall order for the allies. In Greece we had the support of the Yugoslav and Greek armies, our units were at full strength with regards to men, equipment and supplies, we had planes above, but we still lost. On Crete we had none of these advantages so its no surprise to me that it eventually fell.
@thefilmaker16 You shouldn't be. They lost. My father fought in Crete, and was later badly wounded in Libya. He was the on;y survivor in his bataillion. What was the reception for him in New Zealand? He was presented with the feathers. He knew why. Heroes are victors. Heroes win. Cowards lose battles and are killed, All people love shining heroes who win. Who ever praised a dead man?
@MarschNZ What a load of rubbish, you are very confused. No NZ battalion has ever been wiped out to the last man! Why would we drop pamphlets calling for surrender on our own men? The last allied airplanes were flown out before the battle started anyway. New Zealanders were not told to swim 5 miles out to evacuation ships and we most definitely werent cowards. Why are you masquerading as a kiwi? Impostor!!
@DauntlessEnzedder41 Well. You are incorrect. My father was there. You were not. He actually fought at Maleme, which you probably have never heard of. He was finally beaten in Belhamed. They were told to swim to evacuation ships. My father was picked up by a small vessel called "Ajax". Most people say there was no such vessel, but there was. Anyway, he was advised by the dropping of pamphlets by plane. You say they were not cowards. How come he got the feathers then? You know nothing.
@MarschNZ Bullshit! Your seriously deluded, no NZ troops EVER had english planes drop pamphlets on them ordering them to surrender to the nazis, on crete or anywhere else. Everybody knows the idea is ridiculous. If you think exhausted kiwis would be able to walk the 60 odd kilometres, over the white mountains to sphakia,with no food and water, after fighting desperately for over a week with little or no sleep, then swim ten kilometres out to the ajax, then your also stupid!
@MarschNZ If your father was a member of 18thBn or 20thBn then your wrong again because neither of those battalions were wiped out to the last man at Belhamed.
@DauntlessEnzedder41 Well. He was wounded there. he mentioned they were wiped out. You probably have a low opinion of them. After all they were defeated. I think that many Europeans like you think that New Zealanders were lowlives, and not brave supermen like the English. My father was captured by the Germans for a short period. He admired them. How times have changed. Now you are all happy Europeans loving your English brothers, and we the foreigner non European scondrels and criminals.
@MarschNZ So?they gave their lives to defend crete in the end The Germans were defeated at the end of the war i am saying I am proud of him for giving up his life to help others even though all was lost for Crete
Die Deutschen hatten nach offiziellen Angaben Verluste von 6200 Soldaten zu beklagen, darunter 3714 Gefallene und 2494 Verwundete. Nach dem Krieg zählte eine australische Kriegsgräberkommission bei Maleme und Soudabucht über 4000 deutsche Soldatengräber und weitere tausend bei Rethymno und Iraklio[36]. Alle auf Kreta geborgenen 4465 deutschen Gefallenen wurden 1974 in den neugestalteten Deutschen Soldatenfriedhof Maleme umgebettet.
German supplies and equipment were landed at SudaBay without interference from enemy naval or air units. On 29 May, motorized reconnaissance elements, advancing through enemy-held territory, established contact with the German forces in the Retimo pocket and reached Heraklion the next day. A small Italian force that had landed at Sitia Bay on the eastern tip of the island on 28 May, linked up with a German advance detachment two days later.
ATTLE OF CRETE MAY 1941 GERMAN LOSSES... 4.500 PARATROOPERS.. 200 ARMORED VEHICLES.. 45 AEROPLANES.. 700 PRISONERS.. 500 MISSING.. AND THE DElay ATTACK TO RIUSSIA HITLERS DECLARATION.. crete showed the end of paratroopers.. DURING THE SO CALLE D OCCUPATION 2500 GERMAN DEAD 2 GENERALS CAPTURED.. 1500 PRISONERS 500 OF THEM EXECUTED BY REBELS FOR CRIMES AFIANTS THE BIG GREEK NATION.. NAZIS PAYED HARD PRICE!1
Die Operation „Merkur“ wurde durch die deutschen Truppen nur unter großen Verlusten erfolgreich abgeschlossen. Die Ursachen dafür lagen in Führungsfehlern, vorhandenen Mängeln in der Bodenorganisation und zu knapp bemessener Vorbereitungszeit. Die Hauptgründe waren jedoch die völlige Unterschätzung des Gegners, die Annahme, dass die Bevölkerung die deutschen Truppen freundlich empfangen würde, sowie das fehlende Überraschungsmoment, da die Briten in fast allen
Die griechischen Soldaten waren schlecht ausgerüstet, da zu Beginn des Balkankrieges alle neueren und schweren Waffen auf das Festland gebracht worden waren. Die meisten Gewehre waren deutscher oder österreichischer Herkunft, vor allem Mannlicher-Schönauer Gebirgskarabiner im Kaliber 6,5x54 (M.-Sch.) und Steyr-Mannlicher M1895 (im Rahmen des Versailler Vertrags beschlagnahmt). Etwa 1000 Griechen waren noch mit antiquierten Gras-Gewehren bewaffnet.
Horrible the way war is showed like a nice trip to have some pleasure. So many of them died same night during the invasion. The cementary near Chania tells everything. And all for nothing except fo showing what Germans are capable for. The strategic importance of Crete was not as high as suggested in the movie. Shame on the Germans for all this terrible bloodshed.
The second convoy, which had meanwhile reached Milos, was recalled to Piraeus to save it from a similar fate. No further seaborne landings were attempted until the fate of Crete had been decided.
When it finally came around Cape Spatha at 23:00, a British naval task force suddenly confronted the convoy, which was on the way to Suda Bay to land reinforcements and supplies. The British immobilized the Italian escort vessel and sank most of the motor sailers and freighters. Many German soldiers, most of them mountain troops, were drowned. Sea rescue planes, however, picked up the majority of the shipwrecked. T
a new2 zealander remembers......They were coming over with big Dorniers, planes with gliders on behind. They let the gliders go. A lot of [paratroopers] came down in the olive groves and were killed. They were in front of us, behind us, beside us. We didn't know where they were.... [We were] busy trying to stay alive, because you didn't know where the Germans were... A lot of them were hung up on trees – killed coming down
German supplies and equipment were landed at SudaBay without interference from enemy naval or air units. On 29 May, motorized reconnaissance elements, advancing through enemy-held territory, established contact with the German forces in the Retimo pocket and reached Heraklion the next day. A small Italian force that had landed at Sitia Bay on the eastern tip of the island on 28 May, linked up with a German advance detachment two days later.
@GermanicAussie you can read german hosrians,,,,,,,,, vermacht by the ardenes offensive was consiste d of unxperienced soldiers at 2/3.. many died in stalingrand..panjers had no space to moove artilliery was nit accurate.. and americans hit with antitank light artiellery mooving form place to place.. later patton came and hit on theright flank.. its not difficult to understand
@GermanicAussie Since when does any part of the Maginot Line sit atop a precipitous mountain range, after mountain range? What trap? The battlefield extended from one side of Italy to the other. Ultra did not detail the dispositions of the Fallschirmjager drop
@GermanicAussie Actually I think you'll find it was General Tuker, Officer Commanding the Indian 4th Division that made the initial request to his Corp Commander, General Freyberg, who promptly pass the request up the chain of command to General Clarke, who gained the approval from General Alexander. Of course Freyberg was never confident of his ability to defend Crete, with Allied forces fleeing from Greece; the decision was impromptu, with no forward planning.
in the battlefield american soldier was prooved an excelent and imerior t german.. in ardennes bastogne small groups of 5 men stopped 200000 german with 1000 tanks.. ..every german OFFENSIVE FAILED IN EVERY FRONT... IN ATLANTIC THE U BOATS WERE SUNK IN BULGE IN STALIGRAND.. IN CHAEN,,IN SICELY
@GermanicAussie Im afriaid your transparent and shallow comparison with Fldmshl Kesselring in italy, or any of the better German Generals on the eastern front is as bereft of substance as the RAF air cover during the German attack on Crete. Im pleased to say you will need to work much harder at damaging the reputation of this VC holder than asinine finger pointing.
@GermanicAussie Its a kindergarden response to blame the immediate commander without looking to the situation he must fight in. He didnt order the Bombing of Cassino..General Clarke did! Since when does a Corp Commander order an Air Fleet(an Army Group/Theatre Asset) to do anything? He was ordered to assume Command of Crete and put up a defence with what he had on hand, by CINC Med in Cairo, who had long given up any serious hope of defending Crete evident in the absence of any real defences.
@GermanicAussie The glaringly obvious difference between the German withdrawl up the Italian Peninsula was that Kesselring was given months to recontour the battlefield and the input of thousands of Engineers and Org Todt construction teams. No expense was spared, lavish quantities of concrete reinforced bunkers, mines, natural defences and mountain terrainall contributed. But most of all, Kesselring had time to prepare and he wasnt cut of by sea.
alla greeks are 100% greeks. read stanford genetic research. crete is just one of the 3 places in greece that "live 50 years back from the rest of Greece". thats why cretans are still so brave and genuine men, living in honor
not even the english would have manage to blackmale us to participate in the war. and i believe that if greece had remained neutral, germany might have won the war or doesnt loose it so hardly. usa and the commiunists would had fight a much stronger germany. i am sure that the russians would had completely crashed by the germans
i agree. greece really wanted to be neutral in ww2.after 60 years of wars with half of the balkan nations and the turks, greece didnt had any desire to get in new war again.and for what?for england? england russia and germany should had solve their own problems alone. not forcing half of the planet to take part in a new world war...
anyway, greece forced to participate in that war by the italians. if they didnt attacked us, i believe greece would had remain neutral.not even the
terrorists???? partisans and elders are not terrorists my friend. they are patriots. a terrorist kill woman and children, to creat terror, usually for political reasons. partisans are not terrorists. dont watch so much american television. its bad for your brain ;)
@robertodowneso He was the best available, the alternatives were scurrying back to Egypt. With the Material and provisions available to him, he mounted a spirited defense; as well as anyone could have expected and better than most. Denied control of the air, with dwindling supplies, bugger all coms, he relied, with justification on the skill of his troops. He almost won, where Whitehall and Cairo had delpoyed Commnwealth troops only as a holding action. Not a serious defense at all.
@Hallenbach he received quite clear intelligence that the main attack was coming from parachutists not the sea, however, for some reason, he was obsessed with a seaborne invasion and his failure to counter attack the airfield using the troops he had a available defending the coast from the non existent invasion cost the allies the island and handed victory to the Germans. He had enough of everything to win. He was out of his depth, too old, too narrow minded and made grave tactical errors
@robertodowneso Enough of everything? 800 Aircraft qv air superiority. Troops with light weapons. 26 immobile artillery pieces, 16 flak guns. 15 captured Italian light guns with lts ammo, a few light & infantry tanks that were useless in that terrain. Troops from 6 countries thrown together. Freyberg fought well and despite all the shortfalls he almost won. Since the other Corps cmdrs were fleeing back to Cairo as fast as the Navy could carry them your assessment dosent add up.
@Hallenbach Initially the germans had only what they jumped with and no tanks. The majority of german paratroopers were massacred. Crete was lost because of one reason - failure to hold on to the airfield, Freyberg conceded the airfield because he was obsessed with seaborne invasion. German high command were about to call off the attack and concede defeat, then they found out that a very small number of paras had the airfield. So then the reinforcements came, it was only then the fleeing started
@DauntlessEnzedder41 Feel free to go on as much as the word count allows you to, but, you will not get around the fact Freyberg was incompetent and his strategic mistakes cost the allies the battle.
@DauntlessEnzedder41 I am not an expert, but you have told me not one fact that convinces me that freyberg couldn't have held on to Maleme. So, please enlighten me.
@DauntlessEnzedder41 A bit difficult to counterattack the airfield when you're miles away dug in defending beaches from seaborne attacks which never materialized, and what is more, Freyberg, was specifically told in his ultra signal that they would not come from the sea, but he chose to ignore the intelligence, and what is even worse, afterwards he claimed he ignored the intelligence so the Germans wouldn't know we had cracked the enigma code. Classic back tracking to save his own failure.
@Hallenbach Initially the germans had only what they jumped with and no tanks. The majority of german paratroopers were massacred. Crete was lost because of one reason - failure to hold on to the airfield, Freyberg conceded the airfield because he was obsessed with seaborne invasion. German high command were about to call off the attack and concede defeat, then they found out that a very small number of paras had the airfield. So then the reinforcements came, it was only then the fleeing started
bATTLE OF CRETE MAY 1941 GERMAN LOSSES... 4.500 PARATROOPERS.. 200 ARMORED VEHICLES.. 45 AEROPLANES.. 700 PRISONERS.. 500 MISSING.. AND THE DElay ATTACK TO RIUSSIA HITLERS DECLARATION.. crete showed the end of paratroopers.. DURING THE SO CALLE D OCCUPATION 2500 GERMAN DEAD 2 GENERALS CAPTURED.. 1500 PRISONERS 500 OF THEM EXECUTED BY REBELS FOR CRIMES Against THE BIG GREEK NATION.. NAZIS PAYED HARD PRICE!1
@JIMY45GR 200 Armoured vehicles in Crete? Where the hell did they come from other than your vivid imagination. 45 Aeroplanes....you mean including the gliders on Maleme airfield? if 2500 German troops were killed or captured on Crete during the Occupation, can you imagine the numbers of civillians who were summarily executed in reprisal? Simply throwing numbers around to add force to a statement of dubious value is pretty poor to begin with, not to mention deliberately misleading.
@Hallenbach armored vehicles.... were transefered by plane s and by ship ..civilians were executed in big numbers...australians and new zealenders fought bravely with no tanks but light rifles..and of course we have the german statements..... end of paratrouper action was prooved..even today germans come to the cemetery to see their relatives who lie there.. if you visit chania you se e al this and the museum also..
The Germans turned tail and ran before the Kiwi bayonets every single time, tripping and falling all over each other in their haste to escape. KIA KAHA!!
Hey German Faced bastards! my great uncle was her and bagged 11 of the fuckers as they floated down, 11 less to contaminate the world, die you Bastards Die!
I live in crete married to a greek girl my grandmothers brother fought and died bravely here RIP Robin Neke Arano 28th maori battalion NZ regiment.kia kaha.
Proud to say my father won the Militery medal while fighting on crete with the RAF. he was captured twice but escaped evertime the last time with an Aussie. He lived up in the mountains for nearly 2 years with the Crete resistance before they managed to get him away to the allies and then back home.
any batle with the Greeks is disaster.Hitlers paratroopers armys was destroyed in crete and never used agean,luftwaffe lost near the haf of her aircrafts that sent in crete and i dont tell about Musolini's humiliation.
@Leibstantarde Are u crazy?? im not german but stop telling this once. German airborne operation in crete is defined as one of the greatest airborne operation ever done. German suffered casualties?Of course.That's the war. But the thing is that germans defeated greeks and huge british forces in crete in 10 fuckin' days. Do u get it??
btw no offence from me. i know that each nation got very undesirable moments in history...But we can't deny it, can we?
@tuolas yes they win,loosing the 70% of their forces and i dont mantionig that the cretan regiment was in albanian and the cretans that they was fighting in crete was elders,womens and children's and with minimum guns cuz before the war prime minister of Greece took out all the guns fearing riots.in 10 fucking day France had fall and it took the same fucking time to germans to take an single Greek island i call that disaster.
@Leibstantarde; Of course the Germans were attacking France with three Armee Gruppen and Panzer Truppen not with a Fallschirmjager and Gebirgsjager Division.
german paratroopers-the elite german soldiers ata the time- lost 70% of their forces in operation mercury. adolf hitler himself comanded the pause of the paratroopers use after that operation!!
it was a bloody victory against elders. i dont say that german paratroopers weren;t great soldiers. i say that Greek partisans were even greater. they had i big motivation: defence of the fatherland. dont forget that greece was also an nationalistic country back at 1940, with the same patriotic
@Leibstantarde dude what are you smoking, they took out all of greec in 4 days! and this invasion was costly because its an air invasion, every air invasion is costly, check d-day and operation market garden, the german invasion of crete didnt lose as much as the allies did in d-day and market garden
@hazemvirus The Germans didnt loose as many troops as the Allies on D day because they didnt deploy 3 Airbourne Divisions over a province that was crawling with flack, artillery, Panzer Reserves, fortified concrete bunkers, flooded marshland and miefields spread from one end of Normandie to the other.
@Hallenbach the attacker always loose lots of men, because hes attacking in the open, the defender is hidden, well protected, this is always the result, weather you win or lose the attacker takes lots of casualties, except for operation Barbarossa, germans lost 400,000 and the russian casualties was close to 5 million
@Leibstantarde The Fallshirmjager took heavy casualties because in any airborne operation you jump into harms way. The germans were actually outnumbered in this battle until they took the airfields and could fly in troops. Do some research first then post. But yes after Crete the germans never used the fallshirmjager in airborne drops but they did serve in line duty and put up good fights when they were encountered.
@Leibstantarde That's crap. My father and uncles were in Crete. They fought at a place called Maleme. When the Germans came, they were told by the English to run away - by pamplets were dropped from English warplanes. The English told them to swim our to the ships, only a five mile swim. Some of them could not even do that. It was a shambles. My father said they were beaten everywhere - in Greece, in Crete and in Libya. Heroes are victors (Germans here). Cowards are defeated. That's war.
@Leibstantarde It is not bullshit. Why do you say that? My father was in the New Zealand army. The Germans thought them to be inferior, as they were not even Europeans.
My father said in war like sport it is easy to lose, but difficult to win.
My father's cousin was also in the army. They fought the Germans and won. He was in Operation Neptune. In this case, the Germans were cowards.
That it was a battle at all, and not a massacre and a rout, liew solely at the tenacity of these men to not give ground. The junior officers DID make a mistake, a stupendous one, but it was a mistake that could have been avoided if... No matter we say now, the fact that the battle lost because of a single stupid decision of one commanding oficer, although it was expected to be a lot easier battle for the Germans remains.
The Battle was in my view not the result of a single stupid decision bnut a conglomeration of a great many stupid decisions that began months before Crete was ever occupied by Bristish Troops in ernest. Poor if not no existent communications between Battalion and Brigade commanders created a situation where Col Andrew VC, without immediate suport or relief, in the face of aparently superior forces and with no "hold until relieved" orders felt compelled to withdraw, to counter attack later.
It is only with the benefit of 20/20 historical hindsight that we now understand the Fallschirmjager were throwing their last reserves into the fray. Indeed if Col Andrew had held on, Maleme probably whould not have fallen and the German attack would have failed completely. However, since this was not so, it is best to consider all of the factors that contributed to the situation in which Col Andrew found himself in at the time. Certainly Whitehall and Cairo have much blame upon their hands.
If Freyberg HAD given the command of no attack and retreat from Maleme, then he would be responsible indeed. When I say high command I mean the British High Command, which did not send to Freyberg the proper tools to wage war. Once again, I do not deny the courage or the valor of the men that fought in Crete, a valor mirrored both in the heavily outclassed Greek troops they were fighting with ww1 rifles and the locals (they were fighting with either front reloading weapons, or clubs and tools).
@month32 I have often wondered if The General Staff had any intention of actually holding Crete. Or, was the Allied deployment there simply a token effort to delay the German advance across the Med. After the evacuation from Greece, a hodpepodge collection of Imperial and Commonwealth troops seems to have been an afterthought, impromtu and reactionary. Not a serious determined effort at all.
So what you are saying is that the defence of Crete failed due to unlucky circumstances. I do not believe it to be so. Reinforcements, weapons and ammo and the such could have been sent to Crete trough Egypt, but came too late to do any good but to be captured. If the high command wanted to properly defend the island, they could have done so. Relying the defence to troops that were demoralised, with no heavy equipment, and still they did not resuply them! This is like using a welcome doormat!
Poor tactical leadership by Freyberg's subordinate commanders and their failure to prosecute his operational plan led to defeat. You seemed to imply that the blame fell on the overall commander. Freyberg, although accepting responsibility for the defeat, should not be held entirely culpable for the loss of Crete!
Even with all the difficulties you mention, the New Zealanders were still only a hairbreadth away from claiming the first Allied land victory of the war.
@DirtyDefeatist I believe Gen Freyberg and his subordinate commanders fought well with what they had under the specific circumstances that existed at the time. If blame need be attributed, then the lions share might easily be laid squarely at the feet of the succession of Middle east CinCs and the ever changing strategic priorities made by Whitehall.
@month32.The manifold decisions and indecisions which gave rise to the situation facing Commonwealth forces on Crete immediately preceding the German Attack contributed in no small measure to their final and irremedial defeat. Could the Med Fleet have shipped the necessary heavy arms and comms equipment in time? Perhaps, But Suda bay was under constant air attack and it is questionable if the docking facilities were operational. If they were there were little or no vehicles to distribute
If by delays you mean the two tanks, one of which broke down before reaching Maleme, and the second tumbling down in a hole... Or that the junior officers did not have direct communications with central command... It seems to me that the command stracture was disorganised. Anyway, the commonwealth forces did not have enough resources at their disposal (bullets, rifles and machineguns) to do their part as efficiently as they should. The numbers od captured and dead are evidence to this.
By delays i mean the fact that 20th Bn was unable to move forward to counterattack alongside 28th Maori Bn, until relieved by the 2/7 Bn from the positions they held guarding the coast against seaborne invasion. The Aussies were severely bombed on the way, not completing the relief til 1am. Not enough darkness to ensure success! The only real point for argument, is whether or not Freyberg and Puttick shouldve released 20 Bn before the relief. As events turned out it was disastrous not to do so.
But in a fair view it will be remembered how much importance naturally attached itself to the invasion by sea, and how difficult it must have been for a commander responsible for the defence of the coast to assume confidently that the Navy would be able to find and destroy the convoys sneaking across in the dark from the mainland.
None will ever doubt the courage of the common soldiers. There are enough stories of valor during those days, New Zealanders, Brits and the locals. What I doubt is the ability of those in command to hold a stupid hill, and then counterattack the meager German forces in the Airport. The whole campaign was a fiasco for the british... as was much of the first part of the war, even with the aid of ENIGMA.
The decision not to counterattack Pt107 immediately after the initial withdrawal, was taken by the relatively junior officers on the spot, who for a variey of reasons including a severe lack of communications and their ignorance of the overall plan were unable to seize the moment. Freyberg had no idea of the withdrawal by 22nd Bn.
With no knowledge of this Freyberg could feel reasonable confidence that the situation was still in the balance and that, provided the Navy did its part in smashing the invasion by sea, his forces were disposed as well as their numbers made possible for whatever assaults the enemy might launch next day. Had he known that there was already this gaping hole at the most vulnerable point of his defence.
Freyberg used the Germans own Enigma code in the battle of Greece and discovered the Germans number and plans. With no effective force, resources and Greek troops with little ammunition and ww1 area equipment he had no hope of effectively holding off an overwhelming German Panzer Armies with two army groups outflanking him. Not really a heart to fight but pulling back to fight another day. Instead of being encircled and offering no strategic gain making a last stand.
ha german paratroopers destroyed the greeks the greeks only defeated the italians and kept pushing them back until the the germans came and destroyed them
I should remind you at this point, the Luftwaffe did not attack Crete with gliders and Ju52 transporters...they attacked with Bombers, Fighter-Bombers, Dive Bombers and Fighters, and did so in overwhelming strength and numbers. They did so relative impunity, and targeted anything that moved along the roads during the day. When the allies run out ammo, out of replacement flak, out of gunners, the end is a matter of time.
When each Flsjr had a comms set down to Company level, and some at Platoon level; as opposed to the 21st Battalion commander that didnt have one, nor the Force commander that had to resort to runners and couriers; you bet there was as comms problem. These simplified kindergarden arguments are less than what one might expect. They seem determined to assign sole culpability to something that is incredibly complex and not so black and white as you have suggested
They landed in daylight, with a pistol, a few grenades and a gravity knife,without adequate recon or intel, and according to a fundementally flawed plan that did not allow co-operation, relying on immediate reinforcement by sea that did not materialise, subject to appalling terrain and wind conditions, Against an implacable foe who was every bit as brave and tenacious. yes the Germans certainly paid dearly for their victory. 4000 dead, 5000 wounded, 200 aircraft destroyed.
The full attention of the 8th Fligerkorp, 1st Flsjr Assault Regt, and the reinforcements from 5th Gebjr Div, were concentrated upon Maleme; not to mention Ramcke's Battalion. Against this a single battalion (NZ21st) defended the air field, the hill above it and the bridge crossing the Tavrontis river; the 23rd Batt east of Pirgos. The movment off hill 107 by Colonel Andrew in the face of this force and his mounting casualties and in the absence of available reinforcements is perfectly fine
I hasten to add Col Andrew had no comms to his Brig Cmder and the runners dispatched did not return. He did not know if he was to recieve any reinforcements, nor the precarious situation of the Germans. Its only with 20/20 hingsight that we realise what might have been, which is small consolation to the troops there. Andrew faced anihilation, and took it upon himself to act. To blame the NZers is another example of over simplistic Kindergarden logic bereft of merit and serious consideration
To place the German victory in proper perspective it is necessary to include and weigh in the balance the points raised by GermanAussie. This battle was a finely balanced thing that favoured one side then another in a see-saw engagement under chaotic conditions. As I have said before, any soldier with half a brain knew with a degree of certainty the only way crete could be attacked by Germany was by air obviating the need for Ultra entierly, so long as Britan held the sea.
The navy was powerless to stop an eventual seaborne landing along cretes vast coastline and possible number of landing beaches. In fact the italians landed a force in the east of the island on the 28th. Freyberg had no mobile reserve to meet such a force so was obliged to partially disperse his forces between protecting the airfields and the beaches. Also the means for reconnassaince seaward were lacking and the garrison was virtually blind. His force disposition was basically sound.
Hitler wanted Greece neutral, wanted British bombers away from Ploesti and off Greek airfields. The British committment was inadequate and did nothing but provoke the Germans. The Germans offered Greece the option to keep their gains in Albania if they expelled British military aid and remain neutral. The British withdrew troops from a successful Egyptian campaign and sent them to Greece only to have them defeated there and in Crete....what the hell were they thinking?
The British feared and did not want the Greeks allied with Germans. Even neutrality would cost them a great deal, as history can attest. The war never trully ended in Greece, it just changed rules. To that we were lucky, since you cannot find all the holes in all the mountains that there are in Greece. So, what the Germans wanted at that time was to push the British back at Egypt. And from Crete the German airforce could harash the British.
"The British feared and did not want the Greeks allied with Germans" The Greeks were a safe bet at the time to resist not ally. The British wanted to push through Greece back into Europe especially attack the rest of the Balkens and hit the German hold on the Romanian oilfieds. Had nothing to do with Greece becoming allied to germany, that was never going to happen.
I beg to difer. You see, the 4th of August regime was friendly towards Germany. The problem was most of the people were against an alliance with Germany. Thus Dictator Metaxas wanted complete neutrality in this war. The problem was that the british did not want Greece neutral or allied with the Germans. And so they moved more forces in Greece, to prevent something like that. Italy did a most moronic thing to attack, believing in a quick victory, which was denied more by the troops fighting,
and not by the commanding officers. All this is history. The Battle of Crete could have been won, if a)the British supplied the local militia with guns (the New Zealanders and the rest of the British troops were not properly supplied) b)there were more than two battle tanks in Crete (and both in a sorry state) c) There was a more competent overall commander. I mean, what kind of moron leaves the Maleme airport with no troops at the hill that overlooks it?
this IS what Dennis Potts said to me in the late 70s he was my forman then n he was in crete during the invation n he said If the british high comand listened to the greeks n defended the airport well the price for the germans would a been so High they would have given up But for the British Egypt was top priority not crete n they were really stretched but it was a vital mistake cause the R Navy would have controled the sea there instead n could do a lot of damage to the germans that way
In fact the 22nd Bn held Pt107 covering Maleme airfield,unfortunately for a variety of reasons the commander withdrew at a crucial point in the battle, junior officers were unable to seize the moment and counterattack and therefore the hill and airfield were lost
I dont see how anyone could see the efforts of the allies and especially the New Zealanders on crete as anything less than miraculous, given the weight and power of the german war machine & the fact we werent able to hold them in Greece whilst in full strength and supported by the whole of the Greek and Yugoslav armies. The Nazis obviously werent going to allow crete to become their first defeat in battle.
dont be so sure about it. the rulling party in greece at the time was the nationalistic one:) and they didnt want liberal english for their allies...
but i believe that neutrality was the most probable situation for greece.
as for balkans and romania...not even close. the british cared about the oils in egypt. they didnt had the army needed to invade romania through greece, serbia and bulgaria...
anyway, its not so importand now what happend but WHY. i mean..i always hear that germans were the bad guys and allies were the good guys...the nationalistic ideology of the germans was trying to protect europe from the filthy vampire nation of jews and to prevent what is happening today: the sionists use the european and american people and their money, to destroy and control our lives!!
and the "good guys" started a cold war for decades...the fucking comiunists and the
idiot liberal puppets of the jews :the americans. fight each other for decades , using white peoples money, personel and lives to achive their goal: the dominance of sionists over humanity.
i say good is only the one who love and fight for his nation and race. and for justice.
i dont hate black people. i dont want their death. but i dont want them in my country! and neither the jews or anyone else. from my point of view,nazis were the good guys
i am not sure about that my friend. even if its true, i think that mousolini wouldnt accept that kind of deal. the italians wanted 2 things. 1)have greece as a protectorate and 2) the insurance of the survival of the albanian state. the greek army liberated north epirus from the albanian-italian occupation after 30 years!! mousolini couldnt accept the fact that albania would stop to exist probably and that greece would regain their ancient lands in that territory
Operation Babarossa was delayed as a result of Germanys campaign in the Yugoslavia and Greece. Assets including Luftflotte II, Infantry and armoured units were redeployed to the region to conclude operations, while others were redeployed to garrison the aquired territory. The delay did not extend beyond a few weeks, but given the drive to Moscow came up short by 21 km it was a costly delay in hindsight that obviously made the difference.
You cannot win a battle with out air superiority, but air superiority alone will not win it for you. No hope of reinforcements, dwindling ammunition, mounting casualties, and no air support. The Royal Navy lost more ships ferrying troops, in these few days than in any other period during the war. The only reason the island was defended at all was because they couldnt run fast enough back to Cairo. Is it any wonder Freyberg had no heart for a fight, on balance, he was not likely to win.
You curiously omit to mention those cretan militia and civilians were not issued weapons from the Imperial reserves; they fought predominatly with weapons that predate WWI, since there was barely enough small arms to cater to Imperial troops. What possible difference could Ultra have made in the absence of the necessary resources, manpower and time to construct proper defences? Intel, most soldiers on the island already knew how they would be attacked; since the Germans has no Navy in the Med.
Freyberg was given a near impossible task of defending an island bereft of air support, with primitive comms, a hodgepodge agglomeration of Imperial troops thrown together after a disasterous retreat, armed with whatever small arms they carried with them. For over six months the British had done nothing to prepare the Island for defence, prior to handing Freyberg command. It is the view of many historians that Freyberg was made a scapegoat in a hopeless cause.
Crete was tantamount to indefensible; its was only the tenacity and intripidity of the troops there that offeref the semblence of a chance. But without Air cover, their efforts were pointless. With that the Germans can attack at will, with no reply. Freyberg did not agree to defend the Island, he was ordered to despite his many reasoned objections. All of which were true by the way. Catastrophic British incompetence again, beginning with the redeployment of troops from Egypt to Greece.
While the US remained our of the war directly,Germanys ttoops garrisoning France in anticipation of the Allied landings could well have made the difference on the eastern front the bulk of Heergruppe B (the 7th and 15th Armies), committed in the east at the right time could concieveably turn the tide. His declaration was indeed the final nail from which there was no return.
You could also argue it didnt matter what Hitler did after Pearl Harbor he was always going to be defeated, the fool declared War on the Americans saving Roosevelt the trouble of considering a pretext for them to enter the European War.
Poor tactical leadership by Freyberg's subordinate commanders and their failure to prosecute his operational plan led to the defeat. While a tactical loss, Freyberg's destruction of the 7th Flieger Division resulted in Hitler never considering an operational airborne assault again.
Defeat on Crete was only by the slenderest of margins, Freyberg has been blamed as you try hard to allude for the defeat due to his percieved faulty troop dispositions but he was severely hampered right from the start. His troops consisted of those able to be evacuated after being dealt crushing blows during the ill concieved Greek campaign. Many were untrained odds and sods and all were severely deficient of the weapons, communications and transport equipment neccessary for an adequate defence.
" If it be remembered that all plans aim to be successful with the minimum of time and loss, and that a plan under which Canea fell on 27 May and not on 20 May and only after losses in the neighbourhood of 7000 killed and wounded, it will be recognised that the success was too dearly paid for to be spoken of without serious qualification."
General Freyberg was unable to use ULTRA intelligence to alter his battle plans because his superiors believed that if he did the Germans would realise that they're code had been cracked and therefore change it.
Alte his battle plans? Unless the Germans force their way through Gibraltar with their own fleet, apart from a few U-boats they have no Naval assets in the Med. The Italias were so petrified of the Royal Navy after Taranto any plea from Admiral Schuster fell on deaf ears which meant the only way Crete was going to be attacked with any hope of success was by Air. Freybreg had no time, raw resources or expertise with which to make the necessary defences and preparations.
The allies had gathered a vast amount of quality information on german intentions and strengths before the battle through ULTRA. Freyberg was forbidden from acting on this material to its full extent for fear of compromising ULTRA. This was a critical failure of communication.
They gathered much more useful intel through other channels. The largescale movement of transport aircraft into and over greece, the occupation of airfields, the sudden appearence luftwaffe troops, requisitions for supplies and fuel, you cant hide these things and they all point to Merkur. Coupled wit the aquisition of every large ship they could get their hands on to transport the 5th Gebjr, no much needed to join the dots
Freyberg could not ignore the possibility of the seaborne invasion when preparing his plans. To protect the source, and Churchill was adamant on this, Freyberg felt that he could not over defend Maleme lest it should give the impression that he was basing his decision on intelligence.
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Please read my 2 Novels. Devils with Wings, assault on Eben Emael, and Devils with Wings: Silk Drop, Crete. My third Novel will be set in northern Russia. HB
HarveyBlackAuthor 2 months ago in playlist WW 2 [ BATTLE OF CRETE ]
The Greeks in the battle of Crete fought with knifes and stones so they can capture a German's gun and fight with it. The only reason that Crete felt was that British soliders removed the defences from an airport. And Germans caprured it. The battle of Crete last enough and made trouble to Germans who left Russia alone and sent troops to Crete. Russians had time to prepare and with the second attack of Germans Russians fucked them. So it was a really good thing that Crete last so much...
0dimitris9 5 months ago
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bATTLE OF CRETE MAY 1941 GERMAN LOSSES... 4.500 PARATROOPERS.. 200 ARMORED VEHICLES.. 45 AEROPLANES.. 700 PRISONERS.. 500 MISSING.. AND THE DElay ATTACK TO RIUSSIA HITLERS DECLARATION.. crete showed the end of paratroopers.. DURING THE SO CALLE D OCCUPATION 2500 GERMAN DEAD 2 GENERALS CAPTURED.. 1500 PRISONERS 500 OF THEM EXECUTED BY REBELS FOR CRIMES Against THE BIG GREEK NATION.. NAZIS PAYED HARD PRICE!1
JIMY45GR 8 months ago
Kia Kaha NZ!
DauntlessEnzedder41 9 months ago
the battle for Kriti was a blood bath for the Germans they lost so many men and Hitler ended any further paratrooper attacks on any other country. Thanks to the Greek people of Kriti.
markosp 10 months ago 6
Scattered amongst them, hunted, thirsty, and exhausted, a few dozen
surviving Germans crouched in such cover as they could find while a bare two
miles to the east, pinned upon the outskirts of the vital airfield, the men of the
22nd Battalion were locked in a death grip with an enemy scarcely more
numerous, and considerably more wearier than themselves."
DauntlessEnzedder41 10 months ago
Freybergs force dispositions were basically sound and focused primarily on airborne, rather than seaborne assault. It was Brigadier Hargests failure to counter-attack the enemy lodgment at Maleme as directed by Freyberg in orders which led to defeat " Thus on the evening of 20 May the mass of the New Zealand 5th Brigade, including more than 1,600 unwounded infantry, the core of the New Zealand Division, were allowed to settle for the night in misguided and short-lived tranquility.
DauntlessEnzedder41 10 months ago
I dont know where you get your info from, but In fact Ultra Signal OL2168 gives the impression of 3 mountain regiments deploying by sea, strengthening Freybergs reasonable assumption that the seaborne component could be decisive. Freyberg could hardly ignore up to 10,000 troops complete with tanks, antiaircraft guns and 64 artillery arriving at Crete some time, and at undetermined locations,after the first landings by parachute and glider.
DauntlessEnzedder41 10 months ago
You say that Freyberg was obsessed with seaborne invasion, but in fact his Operational Order No. 10 shows that he actually disposed his forces to defend against a heavy airborne assault supported by a seaborne attack. Sector commanders were allocated what resources and equipment were available to form strong static defensive positions supported by a mobile counter-attacking force. it was the inability of his subordinates, for whatever reason, to follow his plan which led to defeat.
DauntlessEnzedder41 10 months ago
@DauntlessEnzedder41 too little, too late.
robertodowneso 10 months ago
If you look closely at the events which unfolded, particularly around Maleme. I think you will find that it was poor tactical leadership by his subordinate comanders and their failure to execute the operational plan which cost Freyberg the battle.
DauntlessEnzedder41 10 months ago
Also if your father fought at Belhamed then he cant have been in 22nd Bn which was the NZ Bn defending Maleme on Crete. So which is it?
DauntlessEnzedder41 10 months ago
Die deutschen Fallschirmjäger waren wirklich gut organisiert. Die Musik Wagners war auch sehr effektiv. Danke!
notaire2 10 months ago
Yet, despite this, the case may be made that Crete could have been held. Had 22 Battalion not fallen back on the night of 20 May, had Col. Andrew and his men, decided instead, to fight to the death, had the counter-attack come on 21 May or earlier on the night of 21 May, the enemy might have been driven off the airfield and the defence reorganised. We will never know.
DauntlessEnzedder41 11 months ago
The strategic decision to aid Greece was at fault here. The defence of Crete was a tall order for the allies. In Greece we had the support of the Yugoslav and Greek armies, our units were at full strength with regards to men, equipment and supplies, we had planes above, but we still lost. On Crete we had none of these advantages so its no surprise to me that it eventually fell.
DauntlessEnzedder41 11 months ago
One of my ancestors from New Zealand was awarded several medals for his corage.He also lead some partisans into battle 2.Im proud of him :D
thefilmaker16 11 months ago
@thefilmaker16 You shouldn't be. They lost. My father fought in Crete, and was later badly wounded in Libya. He was the on;y survivor in his bataillion. What was the reception for him in New Zealand? He was presented with the feathers. He knew why. Heroes are victors. Heroes win. Cowards lose battles and are killed, All people love shining heroes who win. Who ever praised a dead man?
MarschNZ 11 months ago
@MarschNZ What a load of rubbish, you are very confused. No NZ battalion has ever been wiped out to the last man! Why would we drop pamphlets calling for surrender on our own men? The last allied airplanes were flown out before the battle started anyway. New Zealanders were not told to swim 5 miles out to evacuation ships and we most definitely werent cowards. Why are you masquerading as a kiwi? Impostor!!
DauntlessEnzedder41 11 months ago
@DauntlessEnzedder41 Well. You are incorrect. My father was there. You were not. He actually fought at Maleme, which you probably have never heard of. He was finally beaten in Belhamed. They were told to swim to evacuation ships. My father was picked up by a small vessel called "Ajax". Most people say there was no such vessel, but there was. Anyway, he was advised by the dropping of pamphlets by plane. You say they were not cowards. How come he got the feathers then? You know nothing.
MarschNZ 10 months ago
@MarschNZ Bullshit! Your seriously deluded, no NZ troops EVER had english planes drop pamphlets on them ordering them to surrender to the nazis, on crete or anywhere else. Everybody knows the idea is ridiculous. If you think exhausted kiwis would be able to walk the 60 odd kilometres, over the white mountains to sphakia,with no food and water, after fighting desperately for over a week with little or no sleep, then swim ten kilometres out to the ajax, then your also stupid!
DauntlessEnzedder41 10 months ago
@MarschNZ If your father was a member of 18thBn or 20thBn then your wrong again because neither of those battalions were wiped out to the last man at Belhamed.
DauntlessEnzedder41 10 months ago
@DauntlessEnzedder41 Well. He was wounded there. he mentioned they were wiped out. You probably have a low opinion of them. After all they were defeated. I think that many Europeans like you think that New Zealanders were lowlives, and not brave supermen like the English. My father was captured by the Germans for a short period. He admired them. How times have changed. Now you are all happy Europeans loving your English brothers, and we the foreigner non European scondrels and criminals.
MarschNZ 10 months ago
@MarschNZ Europeans like me you reckon?
DauntlessEnzedder41 10 months ago
@MarschNZ So?they gave their lives to defend crete in the end The Germans were defeated at the end of the war i am saying I am proud of him for giving up his life to help others even though all was lost for Crete
thefilmaker16 10 months ago
Dont mess with the Cretans.
DJKostaki 11 months ago
@DJKostaki Rubbish. The Cretans lost. The lesson here is - don't mess with Germans.
MarschNZ 11 months ago
@MarschNZ but it took them aaages!!!! Germany took over a country way more quick then Crete they held em off a long time
DJKostaki 11 months ago
Die Deutschen hatten nach offiziellen Angaben Verluste von 6200 Soldaten zu beklagen, darunter 3714 Gefallene und 2494 Verwundete. Nach dem Krieg zählte eine australische Kriegsgräberkommission bei Maleme und Soudabucht über 4000 deutsche Soldatengräber und weitere tausend bei Rethymno und Iraklio[36]. Alle auf Kreta geborgenen 4465 deutschen Gefallenen wurden 1974 in den neugestalteten Deutschen Soldatenfriedhof Maleme umgebettet.
JIMY45GR 1 year ago
German supplies and equipment were landed at SudaBay without interference from enemy naval or air units. On 29 May, motorized reconnaissance elements, advancing through enemy-held territory, established contact with the German forces in the Retimo pocket and reached Heraklion the next day. A small Italian force that had landed at Sitia Bay on the eastern tip of the island on 28 May, linked up with a German advance detachment two days later.
JIMY45GR 1 year ago
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ATTLE OF CRETE MAY 1941 GERMAN LOSSES... 4.500 PARATROOPERS.. 200 ARMORED VEHICLES.. 45 AEROPLANES.. 700 PRISONERS.. 500 MISSING.. AND THE DElay ATTACK TO RIUSSIA HITLERS DECLARATION.. crete showed the end of paratroopers.. DURING THE SO CALLE D OCCUPATION 2500 GERMAN DEAD 2 GENERALS CAPTURED.. 1500 PRISONERS 500 OF THEM EXECUTED BY REBELS FOR CRIMES AFIANTS THE BIG GREEK NATION.. NAZIS PAYED HARD PRICE!1
JIMY45GR 1 year ago
Die Operation „Merkur“ wurde durch die deutschen Truppen nur unter großen Verlusten erfolgreich abgeschlossen. Die Ursachen dafür lagen in Führungsfehlern, vorhandenen Mängeln in der Bodenorganisation und zu knapp bemessener Vorbereitungszeit. Die Hauptgründe waren jedoch die völlige Unterschätzung des Gegners, die Annahme, dass die Bevölkerung die deutschen Truppen freundlich empfangen würde, sowie das fehlende Überraschungsmoment, da die Briten in fast allen
JIMY45GR 1 year ago
Die griechischen Soldaten waren schlecht ausgerüstet, da zu Beginn des Balkankrieges alle neueren und schweren Waffen auf das Festland gebracht worden waren. Die meisten Gewehre waren deutscher oder österreichischer Herkunft, vor allem Mannlicher-Schönauer Gebirgskarabiner im Kaliber 6,5x54 (M.-Sch.) und Steyr-Mannlicher M1895 (im Rahmen des Versailler Vertrags beschlagnahmt). Etwa 1000 Griechen waren noch mit antiquierten Gras-Gewehren bewaffnet.
JIMY45GR 1 year ago
@GermanicAussie Not really since Monte Cassino was not isolated, it was part of the winter line.
randomusernamemygod 1 year ago
Horrible the way war is showed like a nice trip to have some pleasure. So many of them died same night during the invasion. The cementary near Chania tells everything. And all for nothing except fo showing what Germans are capable for. The strategic importance of Crete was not as high as suggested in the movie. Shame on the Germans for all this terrible bloodshed.
Miguel53de 1 year ago
There's Kiwis down there, Fritz. Watch yourself; they'll be back.
Kia Kaha, 2NZEF!!
DrLeavingsoon 1 year ago
The second convoy, which had meanwhile reached Milos, was recalled to Piraeus to save it from a similar fate. No further seaborne landings were attempted until the fate of Crete had been decided.
JIMY45GR 1 year ago
When it finally came around Cape Spatha at 23:00, a British naval task force suddenly confronted the convoy, which was on the way to Suda Bay to land reinforcements and supplies. The British immobilized the Italian escort vessel and sank most of the motor sailers and freighters. Many German soldiers, most of them mountain troops, were drowned. Sea rescue planes, however, picked up the majority of the shipwrecked. T
JIMY45GR 1 year ago
a new2 zealander remembers......They were coming over with big Dorniers, planes with gliders on behind. They let the gliders go. A lot of [paratroopers] came down in the olive groves and were killed. They were in front of us, behind us, beside us. We didn't know where they were.... [We were] busy trying to stay alive, because you didn't know where the Germans were... A lot of them were hung up on trees – killed coming down
JIMY45GR 1 year ago
German supplies and equipment were landed at SudaBay without interference from enemy naval or air units. On 29 May, motorized reconnaissance elements, advancing through enemy-held territory, established contact with the German forces in the Retimo pocket and reached Heraklion the next day. A small Italian force that had landed at Sitia Bay on the eastern tip of the island on 28 May, linked up with a German advance detachment two days later.
JIMY45GR 1 year ago
@GermanicAussie you can read german hosrians,,,,,,,,, vermacht by the ardenes offensive was consiste d of unxperienced soldiers at 2/3.. many died in stalingrand..panjers had no space to moove artilliery was nit accurate.. and americans hit with antitank light artiellery mooving form place to place.. later patton came and hit on theright flank.. its not difficult to understand
JIMY45GR 1 year ago
@GermanicAussie Since when does any part of the Maginot Line sit atop a precipitous mountain range, after mountain range? What trap? The battlefield extended from one side of Italy to the other. Ultra did not detail the dispositions of the Fallschirmjager drop
Hallenbach 1 year ago
@GermanicAussie Actually I think you'll find it was General Tuker, Officer Commanding the Indian 4th Division that made the initial request to his Corp Commander, General Freyberg, who promptly pass the request up the chain of command to General Clarke, who gained the approval from General Alexander. Of course Freyberg was never confident of his ability to defend Crete, with Allied forces fleeing from Greece; the decision was impromptu, with no forward planning.
Hallenbach 1 year ago
i dont have to read any historian chanels i live in creta...
JIMY45GR 1 year ago
in the battlefield american soldier was prooved an excelent and imerior t german.. in ardennes bastogne small groups of 5 men stopped 200000 german with 1000 tanks.. ..every german OFFENSIVE FAILED IN EVERY FRONT... IN ATLANTIC THE U BOATS WERE SUNK IN BULGE IN STALIGRAND.. IN CHAEN,,IN SICELY
JIMY45GR 1 year ago
@GermanicAussie Im afriaid your transparent and shallow comparison with Fldmshl Kesselring in italy, or any of the better German Generals on the eastern front is as bereft of substance as the RAF air cover during the German attack on Crete. Im pleased to say you will need to work much harder at damaging the reputation of this VC holder than asinine finger pointing.
Hallenbach 1 year ago
@GermanicAussie Its a kindergarden response to blame the immediate commander without looking to the situation he must fight in. He didnt order the Bombing of Cassino..General Clarke did! Since when does a Corp Commander order an Air Fleet(an Army Group/Theatre Asset) to do anything? He was ordered to assume Command of Crete and put up a defence with what he had on hand, by CINC Med in Cairo, who had long given up any serious hope of defending Crete evident in the absence of any real defences.
Hallenbach 1 year ago
@GermanicAussie The glaringly obvious difference between the German withdrawl up the Italian Peninsula was that Kesselring was given months to recontour the battlefield and the input of thousands of Engineers and Org Todt construction teams. No expense was spared, lavish quantities of concrete reinforced bunkers, mines, natural defences and mountain terrainall contributed. But most of all, Kesselring had time to prepare and he wasnt cut of by sea.
Hallenbach 1 year ago
greeks kno wars just a game and how its played... to them its about the ability to outlive your enemy...
...i guess...
bodunchar 1 year ago
@mikegrecia
alla greeks are 100% greeks. read stanford genetic research. crete is just one of the 3 places in greece that "live 50 years back from the rest of Greece". thats why cretans are still so brave and genuine men, living in honor
kryptia1980 1 year ago
@GermanicAussie
not even the english would have manage to blackmale us to participate in the war. and i believe that if greece had remained neutral, germany might have won the war or doesnt loose it so hardly. usa and the commiunists would had fight a much stronger germany. i am sure that the russians would had completely crashed by the germans
kryptia1980 1 year ago
@GermanicAussie
i agree. greece really wanted to be neutral in ww2.after 60 years of wars with half of the balkan nations and the turks, greece didnt had any desire to get in new war again.and for what?for england? england russia and germany should had solve their own problems alone. not forcing half of the planet to take part in a new world war...
anyway, greece forced to participate in that war by the italians. if they didnt attacked us, i believe greece would had remain neutral.not even the
kryptia1980 1 year ago
@GermanicAussie
and remember something else.
the german paratroopers were an elite military force, trained to fight behind enemy lines and generally in hostile lands.
so, it is not an excuse the fact that crete was a hostile land for german soldiers...
kryptia1980 1 year ago
@GermanicAussie
terrorists???? partisans and elders are not terrorists my friend. they are patriots. a terrorist kill woman and children, to creat terror, usually for political reasons. partisans are not terrorists. dont watch so much american television. its bad for your brain ;)
kryptia1980 1 year ago
Go song to have when going into war. Flight Of The Valkyrie is the one.
rumrich 1 year ago
@rumrich Did you mean Flieger auf dem Hummel (Flight of the Bumble Bee) by Rimsky-Korsakov or Die Valkurie by Wagner?
Hallenbach 1 year ago
freyburg should never have been put in charge of the defense of crete.
robertodowneso 1 year ago
@robertodowneso He was the best available, the alternatives were scurrying back to Egypt. With the Material and provisions available to him, he mounted a spirited defense; as well as anyone could have expected and better than most. Denied control of the air, with dwindling supplies, bugger all coms, he relied, with justification on the skill of his troops. He almost won, where Whitehall and Cairo had delpoyed Commnwealth troops only as a holding action. Not a serious defense at all.
Hallenbach 1 year ago
@Hallenbach he received quite clear intelligence that the main attack was coming from parachutists not the sea, however, for some reason, he was obsessed with a seaborne invasion and his failure to counter attack the airfield using the troops he had a available defending the coast from the non existent invasion cost the allies the island and handed victory to the Germans. He had enough of everything to win. He was out of his depth, too old, too narrow minded and made grave tactical errors
robertodowneso 1 year ago
@robertodowneso Enough of everything? 800 Aircraft qv air superiority. Troops with light weapons. 26 immobile artillery pieces, 16 flak guns. 15 captured Italian light guns with lts ammo, a few light & infantry tanks that were useless in that terrain. Troops from 6 countries thrown together. Freyberg fought well and despite all the shortfalls he almost won. Since the other Corps cmdrs were fleeing back to Cairo as fast as the Navy could carry them your assessment dosent add up.
Hallenbach 1 year ago
@Hallenbach Initially the germans had only what they jumped with and no tanks. The majority of german paratroopers were massacred. Crete was lost because of one reason - failure to hold on to the airfield, Freyberg conceded the airfield because he was obsessed with seaborne invasion. German high command were about to call off the attack and concede defeat, then they found out that a very small number of paras had the airfield. So then the reinforcements came, it was only then the fleeing started
robertodowneso 1 year ago
@robertodowneso There are so many factors here that your totally ignorant of. I could go on forever.
DauntlessEnzedder41 10 months ago
@DauntlessEnzedder41 Feel free to go on as much as the word count allows you to, but, you will not get around the fact Freyberg was incompetent and his strategic mistakes cost the allies the battle.
robertodowneso 10 months ago
@robertodowneso Its pretty obvious youve done very little in-depth study on the battle for crete. Because your opinion is quite amateur.
DauntlessEnzedder41 10 months ago
@DauntlessEnzedder41 I am not an expert, but you have told me not one fact that convinces me that freyberg couldn't have held on to Maleme. So, please enlighten me.
robertodowneso 10 months ago
@robertodowneso Any foothold, or success against the troops in any particular position must
be immediately counterattacked.
Major-General B. C. Freyberg VC
DauntlessEnzedder41 10 months ago
@DauntlessEnzedder41 A bit difficult to counterattack the airfield when you're miles away dug in defending beaches from seaborne attacks which never materialized, and what is more, Freyberg, was specifically told in his ultra signal that they would not come from the sea, but he chose to ignore the intelligence, and what is even worse, afterwards he claimed he ignored the intelligence so the Germans wouldn't know we had cracked the enigma code. Classic back tracking to save his own failure.
robertodowneso 10 months ago
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@Hallenbach Initially the germans had only what they jumped with and no tanks. The majority of german paratroopers were massacred. Crete was lost because of one reason - failure to hold on to the airfield, Freyberg conceded the airfield because he was obsessed with seaborne invasion. German high command were about to call off the attack and concede defeat, then they found out that a very small number of paras had the airfield. So then the reinforcements came, it was only then the fleeing started
robertodowneso 1 year ago
isnt it about time for a kickass movie about crete
robertodowneso 1 year ago
3:11
OMG! Francis Ford Coppola plaguarised those dang Nazis!
rethguals 1 year ago
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bATTLE OF CRETE MAY 1941 GERMAN LOSSES... 4.500 PARATROOPERS.. 200 ARMORED VEHICLES.. 45 AEROPLANES.. 700 PRISONERS.. 500 MISSING.. AND THE DElay ATTACK TO RIUSSIA HITLERS DECLARATION.. crete showed the end of paratroopers.. DURING THE SO CALLE D OCCUPATION 2500 GERMAN DEAD 2 GENERALS CAPTURED.. 1500 PRISONERS 500 OF THEM EXECUTED BY REBELS FOR CRIMES Against THE BIG GREEK NATION.. NAZIS PAYED HARD PRICE!1
JIMY45GR 1 year ago
@JIMY45GR 200 Armoured vehicles in Crete? Where the hell did they come from other than your vivid imagination. 45 Aeroplanes....you mean including the gliders on Maleme airfield? if 2500 German troops were killed or captured on Crete during the Occupation, can you imagine the numbers of civillians who were summarily executed in reprisal? Simply throwing numbers around to add force to a statement of dubious value is pretty poor to begin with, not to mention deliberately misleading.
Hallenbach 1 year ago
@Hallenbach armored vehicles.... were transefered by plane s and by ship ..civilians were executed in big numbers...australians and new zealenders fought bravely with no tanks but light rifles..and of course we have the german statements..... end of paratrouper action was prooved..even today germans come to the cemetery to see their relatives who lie there.. if you visit chania you se e al this and the museum also..
JIMY45GR 1 year ago
If somebody could put english subtitles to these videos it would be awesome!!
sstyle87 1 year ago
3:14 apocalypse now anyone??????
dancab1916 1 year ago
The Germans turned tail and ran before the Kiwi bayonets every single time, tripping and falling all over each other in their haste to escape. KIA KAHA!!
DirtyDefeatist 1 year ago
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Ου καταισχύνω όπλα τα ιερά, ουδ' εγκαταλείψω τον παραστάτην ότω αν στοιχήσω αμυνώ δε και υπέρ ιερών και οσίων και μόνος και μετά πολλών, τ
JIMY45GR 1 year ago
i am Cretan and very proud of it....R.I.P. all....Greeks, Germans,friends and enemies.....war is not a good situation.......PEACE
faetofagitosou 1 year ago 2
Hey German Faced bastards! my great uncle was her and bagged 11 of the fuckers as they floated down, 11 less to contaminate the world, die you Bastards Die!
gray499kcw 1 year ago
I live in crete married to a greek girl my grandmothers brother fought and died bravely here RIP Robin Neke Arano 28th maori battalion NZ regiment.kia kaha.
punakesha 1 year ago
Proud to say my father won the Militery medal while fighting on crete with the RAF. he was captured twice but escaped evertime the last time with an Aussie. He lived up in the mountains for nearly 2 years with the Crete resistance before they managed to get him away to the allies and then back home.
nogger1956 1 year ago
aha my grandfather lead the resistance in western crete and kicked some nazi ass >:D
vypasnypa2 2 years ago 5
ahaa
StaffanGoldschmidt 2 years ago
any batle with the Greeks is disaster.Hitlers paratroopers armys was destroyed in crete and never used agean,luftwaffe lost near the haf of her aircrafts that sent in crete and i dont tell about Musolini's humiliation.
Leibstantarde 2 years ago 20
@Leibstantarde Are u crazy?? im not german but stop telling this once. German airborne operation in crete is defined as one of the greatest airborne operation ever done. German suffered casualties?Of course.That's the war. But the thing is that germans defeated greeks and huge british forces in crete in 10 fuckin' days. Do u get it??
btw no offence from me. i know that each nation got very undesirable moments in history...But we can't deny it, can we?
tuolas 1 year ago
@tuolas yes they win,loosing the 70% of their forces and i dont mantionig that the cretan regiment was in albanian and the cretans that they was fighting in crete was elders,womens and children's and with minimum guns cuz before the war prime minister of Greece took out all the guns fearing riots.in 10 fucking day France had fall and it took the same fucking time to germans to take an single Greek island i call that disaster.
Leibstantarde 1 year ago 4
@Leibstantarde; Of course the Germans were attacking France with three Armee Gruppen and Panzer Truppen not with a Fallschirmjager and Gebirgsjager Division.
Hallenbach 1 year ago
@tuolas
german paratroopers-the elite german soldiers ata the time- lost 70% of their forces in operation mercury. adolf hitler himself comanded the pause of the paratroopers use after that operation!!
it was a bloody victory against elders. i dont say that german paratroopers weren;t great soldiers. i say that Greek partisans were even greater. they had i big motivation: defence of the fatherland. dont forget that greece was also an nationalistic country back at 1940, with the same patriotic
kryptia1980 1 year ago
@tuolas
ideals with germany: honor and love for the fatherland and the nation!
and the only reason we fight against the germans, was the idiot italians who wanted to make greece an italian protectorate. it was italy's mistake
kryptia1980 1 year ago
@Leibstantarde dude what are you smoking, they took out all of greec in 4 days! and this invasion was costly because its an air invasion, every air invasion is costly, check d-day and operation market garden, the german invasion of crete didnt lose as much as the allies did in d-day and market garden
hazemvirus 1 year ago
@hazemvirus The Germans didnt loose as many troops as the Allies on D day because they didnt deploy 3 Airbourne Divisions over a province that was crawling with flack, artillery, Panzer Reserves, fortified concrete bunkers, flooded marshland and miefields spread from one end of Normandie to the other.
Hallenbach 1 year ago
@Hallenbach the attacker always loose lots of men, because hes attacking in the open, the defender is hidden, well protected, this is always the result, weather you win or lose the attacker takes lots of casualties, except for operation Barbarossa, germans lost 400,000 and the russian casualties was close to 5 million
hazemvirus 1 year ago
@Leibstantarde The Fallshirmjager took heavy casualties because in any airborne operation you jump into harms way. The germans were actually outnumbered in this battle until they took the airfields and could fly in troops. Do some research first then post. But yes after Crete the germans never used the fallshirmjager in airborne drops but they did serve in line duty and put up good fights when they were encountered.
jg24tx 1 year ago
@Leibstantarde That's crap. My father and uncles were in Crete. They fought at a place called Maleme. When the Germans came, they were told by the English to run away - by pamplets were dropped from English warplanes. The English told them to swim our to the ships, only a five mile swim. Some of them could not even do that. It was a shambles. My father said they were beaten everywhere - in Greece, in Crete and in Libya. Heroes are victors (Germans here). Cowards are defeated. That's war.
MarschNZ 11 months ago
@MarschNZ fucking bullshit...
Leibstantarde 11 months ago
@Leibstantarde It is not bullshit. Why do you say that? My father was in the New Zealand army. The Germans thought them to be inferior, as they were not even Europeans.
My father said in war like sport it is easy to lose, but difficult to win.
My father's cousin was also in the army. They fought the Germans and won. He was in Operation Neptune. In this case, the Germans were cowards.
MarschNZ 11 months ago
That it was a battle at all, and not a massacre and a rout, liew solely at the tenacity of these men to not give ground. The junior officers DID make a mistake, a stupendous one, but it was a mistake that could have been avoided if... No matter we say now, the fact that the battle lost because of a single stupid decision of one commanding oficer, although it was expected to be a lot easier battle for the Germans remains.
month32 2 years ago
The Battle was in my view not the result of a single stupid decision bnut a conglomeration of a great many stupid decisions that began months before Crete was ever occupied by Bristish Troops in ernest. Poor if not no existent communications between Battalion and Brigade commanders created a situation where Col Andrew VC, without immediate suport or relief, in the face of aparently superior forces and with no "hold until relieved" orders felt compelled to withdraw, to counter attack later.
Hallenbach 2 years ago
It is only with the benefit of 20/20 historical hindsight that we now understand the Fallschirmjager were throwing their last reserves into the fray. Indeed if Col Andrew had held on, Maleme probably whould not have fallen and the German attack would have failed completely. However, since this was not so, it is best to consider all of the factors that contributed to the situation in which Col Andrew found himself in at the time. Certainly Whitehall and Cairo have much blame upon their hands.
Hallenbach 2 years ago
If Freyberg HAD given the command of no attack and retreat from Maleme, then he would be responsible indeed. When I say high command I mean the British High Command, which did not send to Freyberg the proper tools to wage war. Once again, I do not deny the courage or the valor of the men that fought in Crete, a valor mirrored both in the heavily outclassed Greek troops they were fighting with ww1 rifles and the locals (they were fighting with either front reloading weapons, or clubs and tools).
month32 2 years ago
@month32 I have often wondered if The General Staff had any intention of actually holding Crete. Or, was the Allied deployment there simply a token effort to delay the German advance across the Med. After the evacuation from Greece, a hodpepodge collection of Imperial and Commonwealth troops seems to have been an afterthought, impromtu and reactionary. Not a serious determined effort at all.
Hallenbach 1 year ago
So what you are saying is that the defence of Crete failed due to unlucky circumstances. I do not believe it to be so. Reinforcements, weapons and ammo and the such could have been sent to Crete trough Egypt, but came too late to do any good but to be captured. If the high command wanted to properly defend the island, they could have done so. Relying the defence to troops that were demoralised, with no heavy equipment, and still they did not resuply them! This is like using a welcome doormat!
month32 2 years ago
Poor tactical leadership by Freyberg's subordinate commanders and their failure to prosecute his operational plan led to defeat. You seemed to imply that the blame fell on the overall commander. Freyberg, although accepting responsibility for the defeat, should not be held entirely culpable for the loss of Crete!
DirtyDefeatist 2 years ago
Even with all the difficulties you mention, the New Zealanders were still only a hairbreadth away from claiming the first Allied land victory of the war.
DirtyDefeatist 2 years ago
@DirtyDefeatist I believe Gen Freyberg and his subordinate commanders fought well with what they had under the specific circumstances that existed at the time. If blame need be attributed, then the lions share might easily be laid squarely at the feet of the succession of Middle east CinCs and the ever changing strategic priorities made by Whitehall.
Hallenbach 1 year ago
@month32.The manifold decisions and indecisions which gave rise to the situation facing Commonwealth forces on Crete immediately preceding the German Attack contributed in no small measure to their final and irremedial defeat. Could the Med Fleet have shipped the necessary heavy arms and comms equipment in time? Perhaps, But Suda bay was under constant air attack and it is questionable if the docking facilities were operational. If they were there were little or no vehicles to distribute
Hallenbach 1 year ago
If by delays you mean the two tanks, one of which broke down before reaching Maleme, and the second tumbling down in a hole... Or that the junior officers did not have direct communications with central command... It seems to me that the command stracture was disorganised. Anyway, the commonwealth forces did not have enough resources at their disposal (bullets, rifles and machineguns) to do their part as efficiently as they should. The numbers od captured and dead are evidence to this.
month32 2 years ago
By delays i mean the fact that 20th Bn was unable to move forward to counterattack alongside 28th Maori Bn, until relieved by the 2/7 Bn from the positions they held guarding the coast against seaborne invasion. The Aussies were severely bombed on the way, not completing the relief til 1am. Not enough darkness to ensure success! The only real point for argument, is whether or not Freyberg and Puttick shouldve released 20 Bn before the relief. As events turned out it was disastrous not to do so.
DirtyDefeatist 2 years ago
But in a fair view it will be remembered how much importance naturally attached itself to the invasion by sea, and how difficult it must have been for a commander responsible for the defence of the coast to assume confidently that the Navy would be able to find and destroy the convoys sneaking across in the dark from the mainland.
DirtyDefeatist 2 years ago
None will ever doubt the courage of the common soldiers. There are enough stories of valor during those days, New Zealanders, Brits and the locals. What I doubt is the ability of those in command to hold a stupid hill, and then counterattack the meager German forces in the Airport. The whole campaign was a fiasco for the british... as was much of the first part of the war, even with the aid of ENIGMA.
month32 2 years ago
The decision not to counterattack Pt107 immediately after the initial withdrawal, was taken by the relatively junior officers on the spot, who for a variey of reasons including a severe lack of communications and their ignorance of the overall plan were unable to seize the moment. Freyberg had no idea of the withdrawal by 22nd Bn.
DirtyDefeatist 2 years ago
With no knowledge of this Freyberg could feel reasonable confidence that the situation was still in the balance and that, provided the Navy did its part in smashing the invasion by sea, his forces were disposed as well as their numbers made possible for whatever assaults the enemy might launch next day. Had he known that there was already this gaping hole at the most vulnerable point of his defence.
DirtyDefeatist 2 years ago
it can hardly be doubted that already that night he would have tried to use the hours of darkness to save Maleme while there was still time.
DirtyDefeatist 2 years ago
The attack that finally did eventuate probably would have succeeded in recapturing the airfield had it not been for the unlucky days which occured
DirtyDefeatist 2 years ago
unlucky delays*
DirtyDefeatist 2 years ago
General Student had balls! To invade a hostile island just by air in 1941!!!! Britain was lucky they didn't invade her...
grabac9 2 years ago
fuckin nazis......
HELLAS you bastards!
FUCK HITLER AND NAZISM
funk333 2 years ago 2
@funk333
fuck comiunists. heil greek nationalists.love for the nation.death to traitor commies...go kiss stalin ass u fucking slav-lover
kryptia1980 1 year ago
Freyberg used the Germans own Enigma code in the battle of Greece and discovered the Germans number and plans. With no effective force, resources and Greek troops with little ammunition and ww1 area equipment he had no hope of effectively holding off an overwhelming German Panzer Armies with two army groups outflanking him. Not really a heart to fight but pulling back to fight another day. Instead of being encircled and offering no strategic gain making a last stand.
randomusernamemygod 2 years ago
Greeks deserve full respect for there performance during the invasion of Greece and Crete, outstanding performance.
TowerHamletsNeil 2 years ago 12
ha german paratroopers destroyed the greeks the greeks only defeated the italians and kept pushing them back until the the germans came and destroyed them
zooloo129 1 year ago
@zooloo129
you probably dont know history very well...you are what?14 years old?
kryptia1980 1 year ago
PROUD TO BE GREEK!!!
greeksinmars 2 years ago 5
I should remind you at this point, the Luftwaffe did not attack Crete with gliders and Ju52 transporters...they attacked with Bombers, Fighter-Bombers, Dive Bombers and Fighters, and did so in overwhelming strength and numbers. They did so relative impunity, and targeted anything that moved along the roads during the day. When the allies run out ammo, out of replacement flak, out of gunners, the end is a matter of time.
Hallenbach 3 years ago
When each Flsjr had a comms set down to Company level, and some at Platoon level; as opposed to the 21st Battalion commander that didnt have one, nor the Force commander that had to resort to runners and couriers; you bet there was as comms problem. These simplified kindergarden arguments are less than what one might expect. They seem determined to assign sole culpability to something that is incredibly complex and not so black and white as you have suggested
Hallenbach 3 years ago
They landed in daylight, with a pistol, a few grenades and a gravity knife,without adequate recon or intel, and according to a fundementally flawed plan that did not allow co-operation, relying on immediate reinforcement by sea that did not materialise, subject to appalling terrain and wind conditions, Against an implacable foe who was every bit as brave and tenacious. yes the Germans certainly paid dearly for their victory. 4000 dead, 5000 wounded, 200 aircraft destroyed.
Hallenbach 3 years ago
The full attention of the 8th Fligerkorp, 1st Flsjr Assault Regt, and the reinforcements from 5th Gebjr Div, were concentrated upon Maleme; not to mention Ramcke's Battalion. Against this a single battalion (NZ21st) defended the air field, the hill above it and the bridge crossing the Tavrontis river; the 23rd Batt east of Pirgos. The movment off hill 107 by Colonel Andrew in the face of this force and his mounting casualties and in the absence of available reinforcements is perfectly fine
Hallenbach 3 years ago
I hasten to add Col Andrew had no comms to his Brig Cmder and the runners dispatched did not return. He did not know if he was to recieve any reinforcements, nor the precarious situation of the Germans. Its only with 20/20 hingsight that we realise what might have been, which is small consolation to the troops there. Andrew faced anihilation, and took it upon himself to act. To blame the NZers is another example of over simplistic Kindergarden logic bereft of merit and serious consideration
Hallenbach 3 years ago 2
To place the German victory in proper perspective it is necessary to include and weigh in the balance the points raised by GermanAussie. This battle was a finely balanced thing that favoured one side then another in a see-saw engagement under chaotic conditions. As I have said before, any soldier with half a brain knew with a degree of certainty the only way crete could be attacked by Germany was by air obviating the need for Ultra entierly, so long as Britan held the sea.
Hallenbach 3 years ago
The navy was powerless to stop an eventual seaborne landing along cretes vast coastline and possible number of landing beaches. In fact the italians landed a force in the east of the island on the 28th. Freyberg had no mobile reserve to meet such a force so was obliged to partially disperse his forces between protecting the airfields and the beaches. Also the means for reconnassaince seaward were lacking and the garrison was virtually blind. His force disposition was basically sound.
DirtyDefeatist 3 years ago
Not to mention most of the heavy weapons of the garrison was left behind in Greece. A seabourne invasion may have been easier for the Germans.
randomusernamemygod 2 years ago
the brit navy was why the fj went in
TheHateAllGuy 2 years ago
Hitler wanted Greece neutral, wanted British bombers away from Ploesti and off Greek airfields. The British committment was inadequate and did nothing but provoke the Germans. The Germans offered Greece the option to keep their gains in Albania if they expelled British military aid and remain neutral. The British withdrew troops from a successful Egyptian campaign and sent them to Greece only to have them defeated there and in Crete....what the hell were they thinking?
Hallenbach 3 years ago
The British feared and did not want the Greeks allied with Germans. Even neutrality would cost them a great deal, as history can attest. The war never trully ended in Greece, it just changed rules. To that we were lucky, since you cannot find all the holes in all the mountains that there are in Greece. So, what the Germans wanted at that time was to push the British back at Egypt. And from Crete the German airforce could harash the British.
month32 2 years ago
"The British feared and did not want the Greeks allied with Germans" The Greeks were a safe bet at the time to resist not ally. The British wanted to push through Greece back into Europe especially attack the rest of the Balkens and hit the German hold on the Romanian oilfieds. Had nothing to do with Greece becoming allied to germany, that was never going to happen.
randomusernamemygod 2 years ago
I beg to difer. You see, the 4th of August regime was friendly towards Germany. The problem was most of the people were against an alliance with Germany. Thus Dictator Metaxas wanted complete neutrality in this war. The problem was that the british did not want Greece neutral or allied with the Germans. And so they moved more forces in Greece, to prevent something like that. Italy did a most moronic thing to attack, believing in a quick victory, which was denied more by the troops fighting,
month32 2 years ago
and not by the commanding officers. All this is history. The Battle of Crete could have been won, if a)the British supplied the local militia with guns (the New Zealanders and the rest of the British troops were not properly supplied) b)there were more than two battle tanks in Crete (and both in a sorry state) c) There was a more competent overall commander. I mean, what kind of moron leaves the Maleme airport with no troops at the hill that overlooks it?
month32 2 years ago 2
this IS what Dennis Potts said to me in the late 70s he was my forman then n he was in crete during the invation n he said If the british high comand listened to the greeks n defended the airport well the price for the germans would a been so High they would have given up But for the British Egypt was top priority not crete n they were really stretched but it was a vital mistake cause the R Navy would have controled the sea there instead n could do a lot of damage to the germans that way
polygamous1 2 years ago
In fact the 22nd Bn held Pt107 covering Maleme airfield,unfortunately for a variety of reasons the commander withdrew at a crucial point in the battle, junior officers were unable to seize the moment and counterattack and therefore the hill and airfield were lost
DirtyDefeatist 2 years ago
I dont see how anyone could see the efforts of the allies and especially the New Zealanders on crete as anything less than miraculous, given the weight and power of the german war machine & the fact we werent able to hold them in Greece whilst in full strength and supported by the whole of the Greek and Yugoslav armies. The Nazis obviously werent going to allow crete to become their first defeat in battle.
DirtyDefeatist 2 years ago
@randomusernamemygod
dont be so sure about it. the rulling party in greece at the time was the nationalistic one:) and they didnt want liberal english for their allies...
but i believe that neutrality was the most probable situation for greece.
as for balkans and romania...not even close. the british cared about the oils in egypt. they didnt had the army needed to invade romania through greece, serbia and bulgaria...
kryptia1980 1 year ago
@randomusernamemygod
kryptia1980 1 year ago
@randomusernamemygod
anyway, its not so importand now what happend but WHY. i mean..i always hear that germans were the bad guys and allies were the good guys...the nationalistic ideology of the germans was trying to protect europe from the filthy vampire nation of jews and to prevent what is happening today: the sionists use the european and american people and their money, to destroy and control our lives!!
and the "good guys" started a cold war for decades...the fucking comiunists and the
kryptia1980 1 year ago
@randomusernamemygod
idiot liberal puppets of the jews :the americans. fight each other for decades , using white peoples money, personel and lives to achive their goal: the dominance of sionists over humanity.
i say good is only the one who love and fight for his nation and race. and for justice.
i dont hate black people. i dont want their death. but i dont want them in my country! and neither the jews or anyone else. from my point of view,nazis were the good guys
kryptia1980 1 year ago
@Hallenbach
i am not sure about that my friend. even if its true, i think that mousolini wouldnt accept that kind of deal. the italians wanted 2 things. 1)have greece as a protectorate and 2) the insurance of the survival of the albanian state. the greek army liberated north epirus from the albanian-italian occupation after 30 years!! mousolini couldnt accept the fact that albania would stop to exist probably and that greece would regain their ancient lands in that territory
kryptia1980 1 year ago
Operation Babarossa was delayed as a result of Germanys campaign in the Yugoslavia and Greece. Assets including Luftflotte II, Infantry and armoured units were redeployed to the region to conclude operations, while others were redeployed to garrison the aquired territory. The delay did not extend beyond a few weeks, but given the drive to Moscow came up short by 21 km it was a costly delay in hindsight that obviously made the difference.
Hallenbach 3 years ago
You cannot win a battle with out air superiority, but air superiority alone will not win it for you. No hope of reinforcements, dwindling ammunition, mounting casualties, and no air support. The Royal Navy lost more ships ferrying troops, in these few days than in any other period during the war. The only reason the island was defended at all was because they couldnt run fast enough back to Cairo. Is it any wonder Freyberg had no heart for a fight, on balance, he was not likely to win.
Hallenbach 3 years ago
You curiously omit to mention those cretan militia and civilians were not issued weapons from the Imperial reserves; they fought predominatly with weapons that predate WWI, since there was barely enough small arms to cater to Imperial troops. What possible difference could Ultra have made in the absence of the necessary resources, manpower and time to construct proper defences? Intel, most soldiers on the island already knew how they would be attacked; since the Germans has no Navy in the Med.
Hallenbach 3 years ago
Freyberg was given a near impossible task of defending an island bereft of air support, with primitive comms, a hodgepodge agglomeration of Imperial troops thrown together after a disasterous retreat, armed with whatever small arms they carried with them. For over six months the British had done nothing to prepare the Island for defence, prior to handing Freyberg command. It is the view of many historians that Freyberg was made a scapegoat in a hopeless cause.
Hallenbach 3 years ago
Crete was tantamount to indefensible; its was only the tenacity and intripidity of the troops there that offeref the semblence of a chance. But without Air cover, their efforts were pointless. With that the Germans can attack at will, with no reply. Freyberg did not agree to defend the Island, he was ordered to despite his many reasoned objections. All of which were true by the way. Catastrophic British incompetence again, beginning with the redeployment of troops from Egypt to Greece.
Hallenbach 3 years ago
While the US remained our of the war directly,Germanys ttoops garrisoning France in anticipation of the Allied landings could well have made the difference on the eastern front the bulk of Heergruppe B (the 7th and 15th Armies), committed in the east at the right time could concieveably turn the tide. His declaration was indeed the final nail from which there was no return.
Hallenbach 3 years ago
You could also argue it didnt matter what Hitler did after Pearl Harbor he was always going to be defeated, the fool declared War on the Americans saving Roosevelt the trouble of considering a pretext for them to enter the European War.
DirtyDefeatist 3 years ago
The D-Day airborne landings didnt turn out to be such a pyrrhic victory for the allied paratroopers like Crete was for the Germans.
DirtyDefeatist 3 years ago
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DirtyDefeatist 3 years ago
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DirtyDefeatist 3 years ago
Poor tactical leadership by Freyberg's subordinate commanders and their failure to prosecute his operational plan led to the defeat. While a tactical loss, Freyberg's destruction of the 7th Flieger Division resulted in Hitler never considering an operational airborne assault again.
DirtyDefeatist 3 years ago
Defeat on Crete was only by the slenderest of margins, Freyberg has been blamed as you try hard to allude for the defeat due to his percieved faulty troop dispositions but he was severely hampered right from the start. His troops consisted of those able to be evacuated after being dealt crushing blows during the ill concieved Greek campaign. Many were untrained odds and sods and all were severely deficient of the weapons, communications and transport equipment neccessary for an adequate defence.
DirtyDefeatist 3 years ago
" If it be remembered that all plans aim to be successful with the minimum of time and loss, and that a plan under which Canea fell on 27 May and not on 20 May and only after losses in the neighbourhood of 7000 killed and wounded, it will be recognised that the success was too dearly paid for to be spoken of without serious qualification."
DirtyDefeatist 3 years ago
General Freyberg was unable to use ULTRA intelligence to alter his battle plans because his superiors believed that if he did the Germans would realise that they're code had been cracked and therefore change it.
DirtyDefeatist 3 years ago
Alte his battle plans? Unless the Germans force their way through Gibraltar with their own fleet, apart from a few U-boats they have no Naval assets in the Med. The Italias were so petrified of the Royal Navy after Taranto any plea from Admiral Schuster fell on deaf ears which meant the only way Crete was going to be attacked with any hope of success was by Air. Freybreg had no time, raw resources or expertise with which to make the necessary defences and preparations.
Hallenbach 3 years ago
The allies had gathered a vast amount of quality information on german intentions and strengths before the battle through ULTRA. Freyberg was forbidden from acting on this material to its full extent for fear of compromising ULTRA. This was a critical failure of communication.
DirtyDefeatist 3 years ago
They gathered much more useful intel through other channels. The largescale movement of transport aircraft into and over greece, the occupation of airfields, the sudden appearence luftwaffe troops, requisitions for supplies and fuel, you cant hide these things and they all point to Merkur. Coupled wit the aquisition of every large ship they could get their hands on to transport the 5th Gebjr, no much needed to join the dots
Hallenbach 3 years ago
Freyberg could not ignore the possibility of the seaborne invasion when preparing his plans. To protect the source, and Churchill was adamant on this, Freyberg felt that he could not over defend Maleme lest it should give the impression that he was basing his decision on intelligence.
DirtyDefeatist 3 years ago