@swollenpickle09 Yep, techs and maintenance go a long way to maintaining old gear- you will certainly need a good one. On the other hand, so do warranties- no workie? Send it back. And, the reliability and longevity of a brand new piece of gear is quite great. For a lot of people, vintage gear is a non-starter for this precise reason. For others, turning in one original for four of these is a very, very practical move. If you've got a good tech, and no need for the money, lucky you!
Not only is the Neve better sounding in the video- even at youtube quality, its EQ not showcased here absolutely stomps the vintech.
The only useful part of this video is the mention that vintage units are a PITA- owning 1084s I have to agree. But they are far better than the Vintech units- idiosyncrasies included.
Your engineers trying to look busy and serious are hilarious btw... Did the video team ask them to pretend to move faders and push buttons? heheh riiiiight...
@whitepapagold Love the hostility, negativity, and self pride.
Guess the many, many Grammy winning engineers that feel these are perfect substitutes don't know what they are doing either!
Your comment is exactly why we've gone to blind shootouts- while we ALWAYS conduct shootouts blindly, by revealing the gear identity, people that want to exaggerate non-existent differences don't. These are production tools, so saying that one "absolutely stomps" demonstrates your lack of experience.
@whitepapagold The engineers were not pretending to move faders and push buttons, they were simply solo-ing or muting the outputs of the two signals they were comparing. Thats called A/B-ing, which is what the guy said they were doing. Not everyone can afford or wants to deal with upkeep of vintage gear, so videos like this are a lot of help when choosing gear for a new studio.
@drumlyell We appreciate your post as well. We've got no problem with anyone posting their thoughts and opinions, but when it becomes hostile, unhelpful, or some sort of personal agenda, we don't feel that it really helps anyone. Anyway, appreciate you saying something here. Please let us know if we can help you in any way!
@TheeAldeen Heheh- thanks for saying! We're not as young as we look- a couple of us on this video have 20+ years each of recording experience. While the youngest members of our crew were the ones responsible for putting this particular video together, there are guys at SP with multiple multi-platinum records, and Grammy-award nominations. Point is, if you are looking for real battle-proven studio advice, we have plenty of real-world experience to help you through your next decision.
hmm..it does sound slightly different. the neve's sounded really good. but in my opinion in this youtube video the vintech has pretty awesome lower mids than the neve's. i might be wrong, i am listening through a youtube video...
@sickonfriday Feel free to send us a request to audio@soundpure(dot)com and we can shoot you over the original high resolution audio files... we felt the sonic proximity between them was comparable to what you'd expect when comparing any old Neve's- essentially some small differences, but no more than the variances experienced between vintage units.
@sickonfriday Well, current Neve does have that reputation, but we have not seen enough of it to know if the reputation is true or not... vintage Neve (depending on age/restoration) can also have issues, but, if well-maintained or recently refurbished can provide some years of trouble-free operation. If you're not a tech, Vintage may not be the best way to go. The 1272 does not have the same level of coloration/depth as the 1073 though... we should talk more: audio@soundpure(dot)com
@MrArmen1157 Thanks for watching, posting, and for the critical listen! If you want to discuss any of the options that are out there, we are always here for you.
@MatMurk Very interesting to hear someone think that through youtube? I guess you would have the same comment accross a couple old 1073's since there is also a fair amount of variance between original units. Have you requested the high resolution audio files from us... feel free to do so at audio@soundpure(dot)com anyway. Glad to hear your thoughts.
@djfurgasm While you are most certainly entitled to your opinioin, if you have any substance to back it up, we'd be glad to hear it. That being said there is a long line of grammy-winning, platinum-record holding engineers that would strongly disagree with everything that you've said. If you've compared Vintechs vs. literally dozens of old 1073's (as we have done over the years) you will realize what you've said doesn't have merit. The listening tests reveal the results.
@Whyrendog We just had the pleasure of visiting an entire jazz tracking session divided accross all channels of Vintage Neve, and brand new Vintech units over at Quad Studios in New York City. There were some absolute A-list recording engineers there- they couldn't hear the difference when making the switch, accross entire mixes, nor on the individual channels... it was pretty awesome to see it done that way. There is a difference- there is more noise on the older units
@soundpurestudios I don't think there's a "better," just the level of acceptance is higher for the warmer (noisier) sound. I didn't think I would notice a difference so listened a few times and it seemed warmer, especially in monitoring headphones. At the studio I'm training at some things show up when switching monitors or consumer tests, so we have to even check in earbuds. Perhaps it's the way it translates down, but good to have options. Might find ways to make it exact in the mix.
@Whyrendog Fair enough... but keep in mind, Neve 1073's do absolutely have differences from one another- that's just due to the age of the units, recaps, etc. If you put two 1073's under a microscope you would find exactly the same thing. We certainly aren't making the claim that these exact x73i's are exactly the same as the Neve 1073's, just that they are as close to those 1073's as any old 1073's would be to another. Noisefloor/hiss really is the only difference, not something to replicate
@soundpurestudios Good point, yes a new sound vs the sound of older equipment. I was thinking there is something to the whole noise thing that's "needed" since Slate Digital decided to emulate it in the Virtual Console Collection. They talk about it in the behind the scenes as being the glue for the mix by using it on each channel over some mix bus ultra summing algorithm. With the Vintech, I'm sure they can come close with some digital plugin or analog method/tape saturation or something.
@Whyrendog Well, this is a common misconception- there is nothing about idle-based (no signal), pure hiss, noise floor that is desirable or worth emulating. There is, however, the type of "noise" that is a harmonic distortion associated with an input signal, and the Vintech actually has every last bit of that, on the spot. Vintech could have easily manufactured a noisier unit, but no engineer would desire that- even vintage boxes, when refurbed or racked are designed to reduce idle noise.
@soundpurestudios yes. There is no noticable difference. But Vintech is more flat and clean then Neve. Neve is bit darker and has older soul - electronics just works that way now-vintage. Vintech after the years can (maybe) sound close. Both are amazing.
@Kazerecords That's interesting... the reality is that if we had a lineup of 6 old NEve 1073's and stuck this one in the middle, in a blind test, you can't tell which one is the Vintech. I've done that test too! They are so close, that really, they are as close to one 1073 as an old 1073 is to another... in the end, we completely agree. Both sound incredible. Our argument of course is that one costs a fortune, the other affordable and comes with a warranty and a maintenance free promise!
The general tone is very similar but there is more modern high end in the Vintech while the original 1073 has the classic haze that will sit better in a mix. To some it may be subtle but the original has the real magic.
@completeinssolutions Thanks for listening and commenting. Interesting take. The variations from one VINTAGE 1073 to another can be enormous. We have done this test many, many times, and have found a substantial variation accross the modules that we have encountered. The only real difference between the Vintech X73i and any one 1073 that you choose will be differences based on THAT 1073. The Vintech's remain far, far more consistent from unit-to-unti given that their parts are brand new.
@leparditas This is the slat wall system that is layed on top of the original concrete/brick 13" shell. They really serve as acoustics only, not as sound-proofing per se.
Not sure if I heard this correct the first time. I Used an Akg 271 for cans so I can listen in a personable way. I know that these cans are pretty good with LF response. One thing I could say between the two units is that the x73 held Lower frequencies below 400hz a little bit tighter. Seemed like the Neve 1073 was trying to break up in the same area's. Just my two cents.
Not sure if I heard this correct the first time. I Used an Akg 271 for cans so I can listen in a personable way. I know that these cans are pretty good with LF response. One thing I could say between the two units is that the x73 held Lower frequencies below 400hz a little bit tighter. Seemed like the Neve 1073 was trying to break up in the same area's. Just my two cents.
@OpusMonk Thanks for your note, and careful listen- you can certainly request the high resolution files from us at audio(at)soundpure(dot)com if you'd like, and that's true of any of our vids. Based on our tests with multiple Vintage units (also discussed below), if you switched from one Vintage 1073 to another and repeated the test, we found that any discernible differences between the X73i and a Vintage 1073 varied from test-to-test, due to slight inconsistency of the 40 yr+ old Vintage units
This was of course a close call! Both of course sounded terrific. The Vintech sound minimally kind of more open...more roomy...but seriously...this was ridiculously close...
@Metalshad0 Thanks for your critical and careful listen. The reality is that we probably could have found a different pair of Neves that behaved a bit differently than these two, and the results could have been even far closer. We just had an experience here recently with a 1073 we rented for a job, and it was way "off." The old ones do have some variance, so it's likely that the differences here wouldn't be more than you would expect from two different sourced original vintage 1073s. Thanks!
@soundpurestudios Thank you for your reply! That's very interesting! Would you believe oder even know it is true, a great part of the Neve 1073 sound comes from the Carnhill (or other older) transformers used in them? Or would you say there are other components which would do this? A Review-Video of a Pre-73 with original Neve 1073 transformers would be very interesting...anyway...
@Metalshad0 There are actually a large number of factors that relate to the sound, including the circuit, the pots and switches, but yes, the transformers play a really huge role in these things- but they are not the only role. The reality is, largely due to how remarkably wonderful the various Vintage Neve preamps sound, people like Vintech have done a fabulous job replicating it- be sure and check out our video on the 573 (Vintech's 500-series module) against a vintage 1073.
@Metalshad0@Metalshad0 The biggest thing I noticed was around 600hz, on a smaller labtop setup.. I didn't feel like turning my studio on.. the x73i was sharp in this range, the neve sounded smooth, hit record smooth.. Now with this being said, I am listening to a video recording.. so It could be the video, I never emailed them! but.. when I think neve I think PURE sound! I would love to see you guys test between 400-600hz! multiband solo the band! I am so serious!
@didubz Thanks for the idea- unfortunately we don't have those EXACT Vintage 1073's to do that sort of testing, and the Vintage ones really do differ from one to another. When we are able to get things this close in comparing a brand new piece (with consistent components that are new), and we have various originals that are 40 years old, if we repeated the expirament over and over again (with different originals), you'd probably hear subtle differences each time- that's been our experience.
@didubz Thanks for the idea- unfortunately we don't have those EXACT Vintage 1073's to do that sort of testing, and the Vintage ones really do differ from one to another. When we are able to get things this close in comparing a brand new piece (with consistent components that are new), and we have various originals that are 40 years old, if we repeated the expirament over and over again (with different originals), you'd probably hear subtle differences each time- that's been our experience.
Slight difference But not enough to say I have to have the 1073. I have an ADL600 now Im looking foward to this x73. Thanks to the makers who make it affordable to a poor mexican like me... Q: how does the ADL600 Compare to the x73 I'm thinking should I sell my ADL600 I have a small studio i dont need nothing collecting dust.
@CoGnAcDiPpEd1 Thanks for commenting- we can definitely help you when you are ready to grab your X73i, we try to keep them in stock at all times! We happen to also like the ADL600. They are quite different sonically, but both wonderful sounding, and both very musical and versatile. What type of music and instruments are you recording? In a perfect world you could own both of these amazing things. The 1073/x73i is something very special for sure.
@lollofave The Pre-73 is pretty nice for the money... kind of on the edge of professional/consumer quality, but agree, for the money, it's not bad. It doesn't have the depth and dimension of this one though.
I have been looking at preamps for awhile and i think i will build my studio around a couple of these x73i's! I agree with the gentleman who stated the transients seemed more focused on the original but for the price difference and reliability i can certainly live with such a small difference! I really like the Peluso P12 paired with the x73! Thanks again and nicely done!
@fiddlefolk The differences are indeed subtle- quite honestly, vintage 1073's vary from one to another, particularly those that have had work done by different techs over the years. Agree, that given the tonal proximity, the x73i is tough to argue with- we actually have another shootout coming (acoustic guitar) with the new Vintech 573 500-series module against a vintage Neve 1073. P12/x73i is a killer combo... please let us know if/how we can help and when you are ready for those x73's!
Do they use tantalum caps in the Vintech? You always seem to say in your videos about the unreliability of vintage gear. If its maintained properly, it wont be unreliable.
@paynebabes123 Generally agree, but, there is a certain fragility associated with the gear that is of a certain age, regardless of how well maintained it is. But agreed, ANY old gear requires a certain amount of TLC and maintenance, in order to get the most of it. We aren't interested in slamming old gear (we've got a lot of vintage keyboards around here for example), just enlightening people about the proximity some new gear can be to the vintage originals without the cost, or age-issues.
@starchildExcalibur Thanks for the comment, and the careful listen- with all honesty, that hasn't been our experience at all, nor the experience of the others who have done the direct side-by-side comparison. Have you listened to our high resolution audio files? We will gladly send them your way! If you listen to the high resolution audio files blindly, your ears will probably play tricks on you the way that they have with the others around here! More shootouts coming. Thanks for posting!
@daverolo87 'Thanks for watching! Extremely interesting comment- have you had a chance to request and listen to the high resolution files? Listening on youtube could be a little misleading because their compression can introduce artifacts. We actually found the key discernible difference to be a tiny bit of additional noise in the vintage unit, which may affect the youtube behavior with regard to what you are hearing as transients. Just a thought- shoot us an e-mail and we'll send the highres
@michelepellino Thanks for watching and commenting. But sorry, we are not sure that we understand what your comment is- we are always looking for ways to improve- what are you referring to, exactly? We are trying to do the best we can at releasing valuable free videos on the most exciting new audio products that we encounter, and certainly wouldn't want to do them a disservice...
@soundpurestudios I do appreciate your videos a lot, I'm just commenting on the pace of it.... it seems you're explaining math to a 2 year old, it's cool but too slow/ anyhow, thanks for posting!!
@michelepellino Sure, thanks... it's a tough balance- I think our videos have gotten a lot better, this one was posted over a year, but the challenge is appealing to such very diverse backgrounds... some of our subscribers barely know what a mic preamp is, and some are grammy-winning engineers, so it's really tough... perhaps this one has a bit of that "appealing to the least common denominator" to it. But, we certainly support beginners as well... thanks for watching and supporting us!
I respectfully disagree although i will request the hi-rez files...the low end harmonics i heard were not a product of artifacts from low rez audio...they were rich...im not saying the vintechs dont sound great..i use them all the time....that lower harmonic resonance seemed obvious to me even thru youtube
@KingforadayBand Sure, absolutely send us a message, and try listening in a pro studio with acoustics. Home environment, listening through youtube is not the best way to interpret this sort of incredible subtlety. I'm not saying you can't or won't hear anything. Really tremendous engineers (multi, mutli-platinum guys) have listened to this test (blindly) and could not tell... your ears will play tricks on you when you know what you are hearing if not listening blindly- try that, if you can.
i really did :) my name is randy funke btw....i listened thru youtube on a pair of genelecs in my home studio..it just seemed like the first low chords on the piano had a little more going on in the lower harmonics...i do work as an engineer...not saying that means anything but im just reporting what i believe i heard ;)
@KingforadayBand I recommend that you ask for the high resolution files, which we will gladly send. Anything that you heard through youtube is completely unreliable !!! Not that it won't be "in the ballpark" if you are at least listening through at 720p... but many engineers have heard the original files here in our acoustically tuned rooms without coming to that conclusion, just FYI. But yeah, you really can't trust youtube sounds- anything is possible listening through their compression !
@KingforadayBand Thanks for listening. If you heard real differences you are one of a tiny %! Are you saying that through YouTube, or did you request the high resolution audio files? Not sure what your listening environment is, but you will be one of the only people that have heard and posted hearing any real articulated differences. Not saying you didn't hear something, but in a year of having this posted, and a year of sending out high res audio files, few came to the same conclusion.
@147xxx ?????? We are highly confused by your comment- did you watch the video? The comparison was against a Vintage Neve rack unit. This comparison was about a Vintage Neve 1073, as compared to the Vintech X73i replica. We were not comparing it to a console, nor a preamp sitting in a console. However, the Neve 1073's do come out of consoles, typically. I hope this clears up your confusion- perhaps you should take another watch of the video.
you missed my point. i'm talking about comparing a vintech to an actual neve housed in it's proper console, what it was designed for, with the optimal power supply voltages. these modules were made for consoles originally, and in their proper home will BLOW AWAY that vintech garbage...
@147xxx If you are under the impression that the $2000 racks that house the $4000 harvested modules from original consoles are somehow underpowered, and therefore not performing up to snuff- go ahead and keep on believing that. Most Million Dollar studios that don't use old Neve consoles (due to age issues), have this exact pre setup (many of which are replacing them with Vintechs). This kind of comment and attitude suggests that you may have absoultely NO idea what you are talking about.
@147xxx Guess you were trying to slam us with this comment -sweet. Good for you. We work with Grammy winning artists, and multiple-Grammy nominees, as well as major television, and movie studios n all sorts of genres. If for some reason we've set you off, sorry for that. But we use these comments as an interesting and engaging conversation. Not a petty way to jab at each other. If you want to take jabs, please move along... we have plenty of serious watchers we want to support.
@soundpurestudios you missed my point. i'm talking about comparing a vintech to an actual neve housed in it's proper console, what it was designed for, with the optimal power supply voltages. these modules were made for consoles originally, and in their proper home will BLOW AWAY that vintech garbage...
@Zack8133 Oh, that should have been more clear! Dallas Upton is the owner of Vintech, responsible for reverse engineering the 1073 and ultimately the creation of what is the X73i.
Gear sounds great to me. This argument about would one pick a Neve or a clone is stupid. lol I laugh at people that take themselves to serious. They explain that they remade it to the T. Pull the stick out your a** and let yourself realize that before there was neve there was vintage gear. Everyone that saw the neve at the time might have seen it as the new kid on the block and something not to be taken serious. Its good to honor the past but dont discount the future! Great job Vintech!
@Embowafa2004 Thanks for the comment. We agree with what you are saying. Vintage, New, whatever, the sound is the ultimately importance. The worst part from our perspective is that when we actually A/B compare gear here, we do it blindly, and that's probably the way it should be presented on youtube. If you tell people what they are listening to, many people, even great engineers become biased by this fact.
@soundpurestudios I totally agree. I enjoy what you guys are doing. I play trombone and produce for Robin Thicke and would love to come in if you guys ever are running test that you need horns for. I dont know where you are located. Im in LA. Yeah but people need to relax. No music consumer is gonna say "WAIT IS THAT A NEVE 1073 ON BEYONCES VOCALS?" "OH NO THATS A VINTECH X73i" Good is Good. lmao Cats need to relax. Everyones gonna Slap Autotune over it anyway! Get Over It!
@Embowafa2004 Thanks for the great post here. Unfortunately we are in NC, but if you are in the area, you are more than welcome to participate in any of the many shootouts that we are doing on all sorts of instruments. We can only afford to release a small handful of the shootouts that we actually conduct, but we are constantly testing and comparing... constantly! If you need any opinions, advice, etc. please don't hesitate to give us a ring.
I'm just gonna say the reason you have so many people argue with you besides the fact that everyone wants to believe the vintage gear is better, myself included, is that you guys seem to hate the vintage gear so much. I love the sounds on your shoot outs, but you guys seem so biased.
@RockHardPianist Thanks for the comment. We actually think that many people are so obsessed with the concept of "vintage" that they won't even consider the possibility that a new piece could replicate it. We don't hate vintage gear, in fact we love the sound. Problem is that we are looking for ways to create a sustainable future for gear, and the sustainable future lies in being able to clone sounds that we love so much- bottom line is that gear ages, and not always well. Thanks for posting!
A "clone" suggests that every part is identical. Like if you clone a sheep, the dna string IS identical to the original. Having said that, the vintech is a good unit for the price.
@aandiee Well, It is a "clone" of the audio path, but the original parts are no longer manufactured. The X73 actually even clones the point-to-point wiring which is kind of unnecessary, hence they created the X73i which is a clone of the audio path, and transformers, but done with the use of come ciruit boards to drastically reduce the cost of labor, which Vintech is able to pass along to their customers. For those that want "clone" they can pay more for the X73, but the sound is identical.
With regard to why vintage units ALWAYS sound more pleasant. I believe modern manufactures producers and consumers care too much about self noise, distortion and tech specs. I believe to compete (in the specs regard) manufactures build quiet units and component manufacturers (to comply with market demand) produce quiet, low distortion, parts. Self noise is a funny one.. Too much noise (summed) sounds low fi yet the person who can hear his own heartbeat (at rest) is clearly listening the hardest.
@nair0bij0nes Saying anything "always" sounds more pleasant is a gross overstatement, and simply not the case. There are countless uses, applications, mixes, situations, and needs. There is no one-trick pony for the recording world. Variety, and complimentary sounds are greatly valued in real recording studios. There is no one-sound that is distinctively "better." We appreciate your comment, but the reality is this kind of comment could mislead viewers. You should listen to the high res file
@soundpurestudios I'd very much like to hear the high res files.. We all monitor on different systems, in different rooms, with different capacities for different frequencies in our hearing and EVERYTHING is relative so by the very laws of physics EVERYTHING IS MISLEADING.. The views and opinions expressed by me are solely my own.. What can I tell you.. Vintage gear wins EVERY TIME for me : )
@nair0bij0nes The concept of anything "vIntage" winning "every single time" is truly incredible to me. This particular clone is so close, that in blind shootouts when people don't actually know which one is vintage, they either don't have a preference, can't hear a difference, or are afraid to comment. We are not the only ones that have done this test, and the likes of monster (famous) engineers have done it with these results. e-mail sales(at)soundpure(dot)com for the results!
Quite CLOSE but AUDIBLY DIFFERENT. The deep bass response is larger, deeper and darker in the vintage unit. Self noise (present as a fine and misty hiss) is also more audible in the vintage unit. I make no value judgments about either unit and my perceived findings and results (quantitative or qualitative) are my own. Dont just take my word for it, jump from 4:31 to 5:46 feel the DARKNESS ebb and flow between units. They are both great preamps but (given a $ FREE $ choice) I'd grab the neve : )
@nair0bij0nes So, given the choice, you'd take the one that was 5-7x mote money if they were both free!? Well, sure, I would to, not because the sound quality is different or any discernible difference could really matter in the real world of multitrack and deep post-production, but because it costs 5-7x times more money. If free, I'd want the more expensive one too! :) But, when it comes down to the real work, where studios need reliable tools, at reasonable prices- the Vintech can't be beat
@soundpurestudios Nothing at all to do with economics brother. Not for resale value nor coolness factor.. I'd grab the vintage unit because I like what I hear from it, noise and all .. Quite a simple concept really : )
@nair0bij0nes Well, I'm certainly not arguing with what you hear, only to say that you are one of the few. A number of the "golden ears" of Nashville, NYC, and LA have taken the test and failed to come to such a definitive conclusion. That being said, given the whirlwind price difference, few can argue about the efficacy of the clone. Vintech is the best priced accurate clone out there, but there are other good ones too: Averill for one. Thanks for commenting tho.
the ams neve are suppose to be alot brighter. but i dunno since ive never heard one. but i know ams has no affiliation with rupert and to spend that money and it not even be a real neve. i just orderd some portico 5012's after hearing them because the sounded very musical and the silk added some nice warmth and smoothed out the highs. anything rupert has made is just brilliant IMO.
@dkillian12 We agree! Rupert is one of the greatest builders in the history of audio. We are of course a Neve Portico dealer, hope that you got them from us! We are here to help with any comparisons that you want us to help you make, and to bounce any ideas that you might have- and of course, we will beat any price to make sure that in addition to the best possible advice, we can also get you the best possible pricing!
I want to buy the 273 vintech. Is there a difference (Besides the number of pres and eq) I only ask because you website only says the original x73 (Not i) is a neve replica.
@Onetruthrgv The original X73 is a "pure" copy in that it utilizes the identical point-to-point wiring scheme and replica switches. That being said, the preamps between the "i" and the 273/473 utilize the same transformers which mean the sound is basically the same with the EQ disengaged. If you give us a ring, we can quote you a nice price on the 273 (plus the requisite power supply), toll free 888.528.9703, or int'l 919.682.5552 and answer any questions at all that you have! Excited to help
@headbagger63 Unfortunately, we have not made the test ourselves, but one of our very serious clients has made the test- he reported that the 1073 replica made by the new Neve is audibly different than a vintage 1073. He told us he was very disappointed given the price and actually sent it back. HE actually ended up with 4x X73i's. For most people when it gets down to the hair splitting, they'd rather have the sound "covered" than all their money tied up in something with the Neve badge on it
They sound different than the 1073, and are generally considered cleaner (less colored), although because the 1081 in particular has a more powerful EQ section, it is sometimes used across a mix, less as much recording/tracking
@soundpurestudios Thank you very much I'm planning to build my own Project pro studio And the Neves i'm interest in buying but now i might look at vintech thank you for your help
@headbagger63 Either way, we are here for you from start to finsih- we have a team of experts at Sound Pure that can help you with everything from wiring and patchbays, to acoustic, and finally to all of the great gear selections based on your budget. Our prices or unbeatable, and our service and expertise is simply the finest, and most committed in the industry- hope that we will get the opportunity to work with you on this new studio. We should be able to save you thousands!
in regards to phase cancellation; is the necessity due to the natural reverberation occuring in recording stringed instruments, as the necessity to record/mix in mono in some cases is essential to the final mix? or is it more generalized in its application, as a "go-to" pre?????
@T74G The only reason to demonstrate the phase cancellation in this case was to match the volume levels of the two different preamps in the comparison- if one preamp was louder, even in a very slight way, one might sound better or just different than another. With the phase cancellation so tight when we tested them in this case, it was a demonstration that the volume was not only locked, but the frequencies were incredibly close to each other demonstrating their extreme similarity. Make sense?
@Onetruthrgv Well, the Auroras are also nice, but they are not true clones of the original Neve 1073, they are sort of "twists" on the Neve design... there are a lot of companies making Neve inspired preamps- one of our favorites is the Great River MP2NV. But for the spot-on Neve thing, the Vintech is tough to argue with. And the price of the X73i is simply fantastic.
The pompous puffed up pontificaters that insist on using real 1073's are fooling themselves. Plain and simple. In a blind test, put any of these 1073 aficonados in a blind test with a Vintech, Great River, 1073 and BAE1073 and challenge them to spot the real one, blind. FAIL. It's the same for the U47. THEY ALL SOUND DIFFERENT! This said, I take exception to the guy saying the P12 is "an exact replica of a C12." total, and utter bullocks......Pure pimp weasel talk.
@Wermiin To a certain degree we have to agree. Even vintage 1073's will differ from one another- anything that old is bound to have subtle differences between them. But as far as the C12, Replica means replica. I'm not sure why that is bullocks? Just as 1073 replicas differ from one another in subtle ways, so do older 1073's from one another due to the aging and subtle ways transformers will differ in the aging process. This is even more true of microphone capsules. Have you heard the P12?
@TheDelicateOFFICIAL Are you serious? The piano gets tuned before every session by the top Steinway Technician in the area. It is regulated and voiced to concert caliber, and is praised by every major label pianist that comes in here to do work. If you are talking about the fact that the piano is out of tune when we did this shootout, your are Right! No, we did not tune the piano before the shootout, but I don't quite see how that is relevant in determining the comparison between two preamps?
@VintecFreak Are you listening to these clips using the 720p (HD) youtube setting? If not, things can definitely be very phasey. Are you referring to the two clips sounding out of phase to each other, or the microphone positioning inside the clip sounding phasey? Perhaps you would like to hear the high resolution audio samples for yourself- you know those are always available- you just have to e-mail us and we will send them right out to you... lots of these have sent for critical listen!
@soundpurestudios The clips are sounding out of phase to each other. The first one sounds like it is pushing the speaker, and the other sounds like it's pulling the speaker. This is the case regardless of YouTube resolution.
@VintecFreak Do you have the high resolution files? You will have a lot easier time determining if that's the case if you take a listen. The preamps were setup with phase reversed for the purpose of canceling each other out to match levels, but then phase was returned to neutral (99.9% sure that's the case), no one else seems to feel that way that has gotten the high res files for analysis. The youtube compression is quite poor, and unpredictable, the high res files are the real deal.
@soundpurestudios Thanks for the high resolution files. Now that I have the files loaded into Pro Tools, I can state with absolute certainty that your two examples are indeed polarity reversed between each other. I chopped the second (Vintec) file and placed it underneath the original Neve track to check.
@VintecFreak They were reversed for verifying the audio indeed phase-cancelled to ensure we were at the same volume within .1dB or so. The purpose was to ensure that volume differences did not leave a lasting impression confusing the listening, and the phases weren't reset- funny thing is that despite the phase difference, people are having trouble discerning any differences! After a year and 10,000 views you are the only 1. Thanks for pointing this out. Guess they are even closer in sound!
@soundpurestudios I'm sure most of those 10.000 views are home studio types who don't rely on their ears to make a living. Absolute polarity problems, although subtle, are easy to pick up on because they produce nasty, non-musical overtones. If your monitors are not fast enough on the low end to hear it as is, you could always phase align the two examples and switch back and forth. If you still can't hear it, you should probably consider a new monitoring situation, or consider a new career.
@VintecFreak A lot of very serious professional engineers with great names and great reputations have been enjoying this video, and asked for the high resolution sound clips. It's likely that they simply reversed the polarity of the clips when they got the high resolution versions to them, who knows. It's something we do frequently here without much thought, so not a big deal from our viewpoint. So, with the polarity reversed back on the out-of-phase clip, are these close enough for comfort?
@soundpurestudios I'm still hearing enough differences between the two, to be able to blindly pick which is which. I have also not been as successful as you as far as nulling the two examples. Even with the files carefully phase aligned, the summed files are only nulling to -28dbfs.
@VintecFreak That doesn't even make sense... Wonder if something has happened to the files that you have or your phase convert is coloring. Picking blindly, not nulling (we were in the neighborhood of -70), phase reversed... this is not sounding right, and this has been very heavily tested by engineers all over the country. We noticed that you don't have any youtube posts other than on our site, so we have to ask, who are you? Can you tell us your name and the name of your studio?
@soundpurestudios I'm not sure what the number of YouTube posts has to do with my ability to listen. And revealing my name in a public forum isn't going to help the files to null as well as you are stating. I can tell you this. I am an independent mix engineer who owns a private studio, and most of the music that I work on charts well. I'm monitoring on ATC SCM300ASL speakers through a Lavry Gold D/A in an extremely accurate environment.
@VintecFreak It's just strange that your experiences aren't confirmed by anyone else, aren't what we are experiencing here, don't conform with the long list of people that have had very different experiences, and to boot, your only posts are on our videos. Your name VintecFreak is interesting since you are trying to disprove the results that we were getting with the Vintech (and everyone else is hearing). Exposing your identity shows you are unaffiliated w/out a competitive interest
@soundpurestudios My experiences are indeed confirmed by other people. You’re completely ignoring the fact that a “long list of people”, who may, or may not have “great names and great reputations”, have chimed-in reporting differences in the sound of the two examples. These people may seem insignificant to you, but they are confirmed by them, and re-enforce my argument that there are indeed differences between the two examples, even though you refuse to accept this fact.
@soundpurestudios The fact that you (henchmen inclusive) can't hear problems with absolute polarity, doesn't mean that other people can't. Two identical files will NEVER sound the same if one is reverse polarity to the other. One is pushing the speaker, and the other is pulling the speaker. With that said, as far as your two examples go, one sucks, and the other blows, so they can’t possibly sound the same, no matter how you spin it. This may not be YOUR experience, but it is a fact.
@soundpurestudios The term ‘sales-weasel’ is really beginning to sink-in. MY purpose was to inform you that the example files are inverse polarity between each other. This is an easily proven fact, something that you have admitted to, and something that should be easily detected by “A lot of very serious professional engineers with great names and great reputations”, and NOT some kind of conspiracy theory that was cooked up in your head.
@soundpurestudios Apparently you haven’t noticed that I never claimed to like one over the other, or you wouldn’t be insinuating that I may have a competitive interest. Personally, I'm insulted that you think that I sell audio equipment for a living. I’m extremely thankful that I've been able to make an excellent living mixing records and have not had to resort to peddling gear via YouTube infomercials.
@soundpurestudios Not that my observations deserve any more cred than anybody else posting here, but, if you REALLY want to know who I am, you could probably put enough clues together from my posts to be able to associate me with an interview in a prominent recording magazine next month. Anyway, I’m signing off now. You may return to your regularly scheduled program.
@VintecFreak The purpose is to listen to the file, purportedly still phase inversed, in-phase, so that any phase differences or anomalies that you are hearing are eliminated from your ability to listen to the two files in-phase with one another.
All this being said, the real test is owning the X73i's side-by-side vintage 1073's and using them interchangeably on lots of applications, and finding yourself blindly wondering which is which, as we have done, and many other engineers have as well.
The original has a more pronounced room sound and richer harmonic overtones when the chords are played. The x73i has a tighter slightly punchier sound which is really apparent with the low notes, you hear the room a little less, and the chords sound less musical to my ear. but I'm listening on youtube, i'd like to hear the 24 bit files in my studio.
@dresdenandjohnston Very interesting comments for sure! We'll gladly send you the high resolution files, and if you can hear differences on youtube, you are the first! In fact, most people have had few comments regarding any discernible differences even with the high resolution audio files- and those who have have not stated any preferences for one above the other. Can you send us an e-mail to sales(at)soundpure(dot)com requesting the high res files? We will get them right out to you- Thanks!
@soundpurestudios one's not necessarily better than the other but there are subtle differences. There could be many reasons for this including the difference in age of the components. Also it's notable that Neve uses custom windings on their transformers which is a closely kept secret and can't be duplicated by anyone other than Neve (according to them). This is potentially going to have an effect on the sound as well. I'll email for the 24bit files, I'd love to hear them. :)
@dresdenandjohnston No problem, we will send them along. As far as "custom transformers" that sounds like some propoganda. All of the boutique audio manufacturers use custom-wound transformers. The original Neve company hadn't made transformers for many, many years so if there was some secret it would have likely been lost over the decades. Age can certainly have a very subtle effect on even solid state devices over time, which is why we shot out an original, not a reissue on this video.
@dresdenandjohnston Actually, the other notable point is that in our tests that we conducted a couple years back, the Vintech actually sounded most like the original vintage unit than did the Neve reissue... we were shocked. If differences were discernible, they were most noticeable in the reissue. However, between the Vintechs and the Neve originals that we shot out (on a lot more applications that we demo'd here), the Vintechs seems as close to any one Neve as the old pre's were to eachother
the test isn't complete.. u should play piano in a different way.. and aslo u guys should do acoustic guitar, bass, vocal etc.. nice effort thanks for doing this...
BUT this test is to much speak and talking rather than do the test :)
@ghaibboy We tested this on a lot more than just piano, but since the piano had the largest range, has fast articulation, and tons of harmonic information, out of all of the tests that we did, this one seemed to say the most. In our more recent tests we do attempt to demonstrate comparisons in more than just one context. Thanks for your comment-we have many more of these coming, and will take your advice into account. Let us know if you want to chat about these, since we have done more tests
@ghaibboy It's our pleasure... also, you should know, if you don't have a good pro audio dealer in your area, we can ship most of the equipment that we sell internationally (with manufacturer permission), and would be glad to help in any way that we can.
@ghaibboy Hey, thanks. Absolutely- the quickest and best way to reach us is by e-mail for sure at that sales(at)soundpure(dot)com e-mail address (youtube will not allow us to put the actual e-mail address on the comment)
@kidmoonmoon If you don't have someone in Germany, we can get one to you... just get in touch with us by phone or e-mail, we can absolutely make something happen- we will speak to Vintech for you, and see if we can get one out to you from our stock. Either way you CAN get these in Germany in one way or another, and we are glad to help facilitate it. We ship a number of products all over the world.
They forgot to do tests with hot, loud sound. That's where the 1073 gives you no distortion where other pre-amps will. So until they push the sound to the edje, this test means nothing.
@jujufactory We didn't forget- actually we tested it that way too. On a LOT of different sources, loud, quiet, fast, slow- the results are the same. We couldn't do a video on every single iteration, sorry. The range of the piano makes it a great test for preamps in general, not just Neve-clones. There are pres that claim to be Neve-style, that you are right, don't handle being pushed harder, but they don't sound identical on quiet passages either. This one handles all of it, no joke.
@HinSaruDongyuhk A company called Audio Accessories builds the patch bays that we use in our studio. All TT on the front and DB25 on the back, they are called the DB25 to TT Quick Switch Shorti Patch Bays. Very easy to use, install and then re-format if you ever need to. No Soldering and with DB25's, it is very easy to reconfigure them. I'll send you a PM on this as well!
@desol333 Sorry you aren't a fan of the free video that we put out there. A vocal has a much more limited range, and a lot less attack, which would make the differences if there actually were any much harder to discern- we consciously chose not to hear any. Even among many Grammy-winning engineers that have done this very shootout, no one can hear a difference, and the last thing that they can do is say that one is better than the other. Are you basing this comment on what you heard? Thx tho.
I like you guys reviews and shootouts. I wanted to know if you guys have ever had the chance to listen the Joemeek OneQ? If you have how well does it do on keyboards, bass and guitars? I am trying to learn how to record use EQ and compression going into my daw and I thought at the price of Joemeek it might be a good way to break into learning how to record. Any insight or advice would help. Keep making good vids!
@gclef101 Thanks for the comments! The OneQ is a great entry into outboard EQ and Compression. While the preamp and other components aren't going to be as good as the Vintech or Vintage Neve, you are getting a LOT of bang for your buck for under $1k. Depending on your needs, the OneQ will certainly get the job done. I'll PM you and we'll discuss this more at length.
It's a really great think that you're doing test videos like this, but it would be better if you can show them in a mix. I think most of the replicas are usually fail in the mix.
@akos15 Thanks for your comment, gonna have to respectfully disagree. Any differences, if there are any at all, are going to have to at least be noticeable on a completely dry, completely clean recording. If you can't hear the differences on the dry and exposed comparison, you absolutely won't hear any as it finds its way into a more dense mix. I know what you mean by mediocre pieces of gear not hanging in the mix, but when two things sound identical, the mix definitely won't make things dif
@desol333 Do you mean that there are differences when you look at the transformers? OR when you HEAR the comparisons? Vintech is not the only one that has successfully cloned the original 1073 transformer- there are others that have utilized audibly identical transformer replicas. But there's a lot more to making the units the same- including the switch, circuit design, and power supply. The only difference we have been identified in countless tests on many apps is that the orig has more noise
unreliable?? Mine work fine and always do. Every heard the words "tech" or "maintenance"?
swollenpickle09 1 month ago
@swollenpickle09 Yep, techs and maintenance go a long way to maintaining old gear- you will certainly need a good one. On the other hand, so do warranties- no workie? Send it back. And, the reliability and longevity of a brand new piece of gear is quite great. For a lot of people, vintage gear is a non-starter for this precise reason. For others, turning in one original for four of these is a very, very practical move. If you've got a good tech, and no need for the money, lucky you!
soundpurestudios 1 month ago
Not only is the Neve better sounding in the video- even at youtube quality, its EQ not showcased here absolutely stomps the vintech.
The only useful part of this video is the mention that vintage units are a PITA- owning 1084s I have to agree. But they are far better than the Vintech units- idiosyncrasies included.
Your engineers trying to look busy and serious are hilarious btw... Did the video team ask them to pretend to move faders and push buttons? heheh riiiiight...
whitepapagold 1 month ago
@whitepapagold Love the hostility, negativity, and self pride.
Guess the many, many Grammy winning engineers that feel these are perfect substitutes don't know what they are doing either!
Your comment is exactly why we've gone to blind shootouts- while we ALWAYS conduct shootouts blindly, by revealing the gear identity, people that want to exaggerate non-existent differences don't. These are production tools, so saying that one "absolutely stomps" demonstrates your lack of experience.
soundpurestudios 1 month ago 2
@soundpurestudios logical and obvious point...thanks for putting this shootout up and have a great day
MightySaturn5 3 weeks ago
@MightySaturn5 Thanks for saying so!
soundpurestudios 3 weeks ago
@whitepapagold The engineers were not pretending to move faders and push buttons, they were simply solo-ing or muting the outputs of the two signals they were comparing. Thats called A/B-ing, which is what the guy said they were doing. Not everyone can afford or wants to deal with upkeep of vintage gear, so videos like this are a lot of help when choosing gear for a new studio.
drumlyell 3 weeks ago
@drumlyell We appreciate your post as well. We've got no problem with anyone posting their thoughts and opinions, but when it becomes hostile, unhelpful, or some sort of personal agenda, we don't feel that it really helps anyone. Anyway, appreciate you saying something here. Please let us know if we can help you in any way!
soundpurestudios 3 weeks ago
its just a bunch of kids - so jealous
TheeAldeen 1 month ago
@TheeAldeen Heheh- thanks for saying! We're not as young as we look- a couple of us on this video have 20+ years each of recording experience. While the youngest members of our crew were the ones responsible for putting this particular video together, there are guys at SP with multiple multi-platinum records, and Grammy-award nominations. Point is, if you are looking for real battle-proven studio advice, we have plenty of real-world experience to help you through your next decision.
soundpurestudios 1 month ago
hmm..it does sound slightly different. the neve's sounded really good. but in my opinion in this youtube video the vintech has pretty awesome lower mids than the neve's. i might be wrong, i am listening through a youtube video...
sickonfriday 2 months ago
@sickonfriday Feel free to send us a request to audio@soundpure(dot)com and we can shoot you over the original high resolution audio files... we felt the sonic proximity between them was comparable to what you'd expect when comparing any old Neve's- essentially some small differences, but no more than the variances experienced between vintage units.
soundpurestudios 2 months ago
@soundpurestudios cool... i was thinking to get the neve 1272. any comments on that model? i heard it is a little unreliable. :S
sickonfriday 2 months ago
@sickonfriday Well, current Neve does have that reputation, but we have not seen enough of it to know if the reputation is true or not... vintage Neve (depending on age/restoration) can also have issues, but, if well-maintained or recently refurbished can provide some years of trouble-free operation. If you're not a tech, Vintage may not be the best way to go. The 1272 does not have the same level of coloration/depth as the 1073 though... we should talk more: audio@soundpure(dot)com
soundpurestudios 1 month ago
the neve sounded warmer but the vintech is the way to go
MrArmen1157 2 months ago
@MrArmen1157 Thanks for watching, posting, and for the critical listen! If you want to discuss any of the options that are out there, we are always here for you.
soundpurestudios 2 months ago
@soundpurestudios thanks SOundPure Appreciatte People and studios like you wanting to help out an better music in all its forms
MrArmen1157 2 months ago
Maybe it's just me but they sounded pretty damn different.
MatMurk 2 months ago
@MatMurk Very interesting to hear someone think that through youtube? I guess you would have the same comment accross a couple old 1073's since there is also a fair amount of variance between original units. Have you requested the high resolution audio files from us... feel free to do so at audio@soundpure(dot)com anyway. Glad to hear your thoughts.
soundpurestudios 2 months ago
Vintech sucks, I know, because my dad is Jon Brion, no no no. (vintage) Neve 4 lyfe.
djfurgasm 2 months ago
@djfurgasm While you are most certainly entitled to your opinioin, if you have any substance to back it up, we'd be glad to hear it. That being said there is a long line of grammy-winning, platinum-record holding engineers that would strongly disagree with everything that you've said. If you've compared Vintechs vs. literally dozens of old 1073's (as we have done over the years) you will realize what you've said doesn't have merit. The listening tests reveal the results.
soundpurestudios 2 months ago
Comment removed
LODATO1 3 months ago
@LODATO1 Sorry, didn't quite catch what you are responding about...?
soundpurestudios 3 months ago
There's a warmth to the vintage 1073 that isn't there in the VIntech. Sounds like different mics and rooms almost.
Whyrendog 3 months ago
@Whyrendog We just had the pleasure of visiting an entire jazz tracking session divided accross all channels of Vintage Neve, and brand new Vintech units over at Quad Studios in New York City. There were some absolute A-list recording engineers there- they couldn't hear the difference when making the switch, accross entire mixes, nor on the individual channels... it was pretty awesome to see it done that way. There is a difference- there is more noise on the older units
soundpurestudios 3 months ago
@soundpurestudios I don't think there's a "better," just the level of acceptance is higher for the warmer (noisier) sound. I didn't think I would notice a difference so listened a few times and it seemed warmer, especially in monitoring headphones. At the studio I'm training at some things show up when switching monitors or consumer tests, so we have to even check in earbuds. Perhaps it's the way it translates down, but good to have options. Might find ways to make it exact in the mix.
Whyrendog 3 months ago
@Whyrendog Fair enough... but keep in mind, Neve 1073's do absolutely have differences from one another- that's just due to the age of the units, recaps, etc. If you put two 1073's under a microscope you would find exactly the same thing. We certainly aren't making the claim that these exact x73i's are exactly the same as the Neve 1073's, just that they are as close to those 1073's as any old 1073's would be to another. Noisefloor/hiss really is the only difference, not something to replicate
soundpurestudios 3 months ago
@soundpurestudios Good point, yes a new sound vs the sound of older equipment. I was thinking there is something to the whole noise thing that's "needed" since Slate Digital decided to emulate it in the Virtual Console Collection. They talk about it in the behind the scenes as being the glue for the mix by using it on each channel over some mix bus ultra summing algorithm. With the Vintech, I'm sure they can come close with some digital plugin or analog method/tape saturation or something.
Whyrendog 3 months ago
@Whyrendog Well, this is a common misconception- there is nothing about idle-based (no signal), pure hiss, noise floor that is desirable or worth emulating. There is, however, the type of "noise" that is a harmonic distortion associated with an input signal, and the Vintech actually has every last bit of that, on the spot. Vintech could have easily manufactured a noisier unit, but no engineer would desire that- even vintage boxes, when refurbed or racked are designed to reduce idle noise.
soundpurestudios 3 months ago
@soundpurestudios yes. There is no noticable difference. But Vintech is more flat and clean then Neve. Neve is bit darker and has older soul - electronics just works that way now-vintage. Vintech after the years can (maybe) sound close. Both are amazing.
Kazerecords 3 months ago
@Kazerecords That's interesting... the reality is that if we had a lineup of 6 old NEve 1073's and stuck this one in the middle, in a blind test, you can't tell which one is the Vintech. I've done that test too! They are so close, that really, they are as close to one 1073 as an old 1073 is to another... in the end, we completely agree. Both sound incredible. Our argument of course is that one costs a fortune, the other affordable and comes with a warranty and a maintenance free promise!
soundpurestudios 3 months ago
The general tone is very similar but there is more modern high end in the Vintech while the original 1073 has the classic haze that will sit better in a mix. To some it may be subtle but the original has the real magic.
completeinssolutions 3 months ago 2
@completeinssolutions Thanks for listening and commenting. Interesting take. The variations from one VINTAGE 1073 to another can be enormous. We have done this test many, many times, and have found a substantial variation accross the modules that we have encountered. The only real difference between the Vintech X73i and any one 1073 that you choose will be differences based on THAT 1073. The Vintech's remain far, far more consistent from unit-to-unti given that their parts are brand new.
soundpurestudios 3 months ago
why do you use this wood in your studio is it double wall or what?
leparditas 4 months ago
@leparditas This is the slat wall system that is layed on top of the original concrete/brick 13" shell. They really serve as acoustics only, not as sound-proofing per se.
soundpurestudios 4 months ago
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Not sure if I heard this correct the first time. I Used an Akg 271 for cans so I can listen in a personable way. I know that these cans are pretty good with LF response. One thing I could say between the two units is that the x73 held Lower frequencies below 400hz a little bit tighter. Seemed like the Neve 1073 was trying to break up in the same area's. Just my two cents.
OpusMonk 4 months ago
Not sure if I heard this correct the first time. I Used an Akg 271 for cans so I can listen in a personable way. I know that these cans are pretty good with LF response. One thing I could say between the two units is that the x73 held Lower frequencies below 400hz a little bit tighter. Seemed like the Neve 1073 was trying to break up in the same area's. Just my two cents.
OpusMonk 4 months ago
@OpusMonk Thanks for your note, and careful listen- you can certainly request the high resolution files from us at audio(at)soundpure(dot)com if you'd like, and that's true of any of our vids. Based on our tests with multiple Vintage units (also discussed below), if you switched from one Vintage 1073 to another and repeated the test, we found that any discernible differences between the X73i and a Vintage 1073 varied from test-to-test, due to slight inconsistency of the 40 yr+ old Vintage units
soundpurestudios 4 months ago
This was of course a close call! Both of course sounded terrific. The Vintech sound minimally kind of more open...more roomy...but seriously...this was ridiculously close...
Metalshad0 5 months ago
@Metalshad0 Thanks for your critical and careful listen. The reality is that we probably could have found a different pair of Neves that behaved a bit differently than these two, and the results could have been even far closer. We just had an experience here recently with a 1073 we rented for a job, and it was way "off." The old ones do have some variance, so it's likely that the differences here wouldn't be more than you would expect from two different sourced original vintage 1073s. Thanks!
soundpurestudios 5 months ago
@soundpurestudios Thank you for your reply! That's very interesting! Would you believe oder even know it is true, a great part of the Neve 1073 sound comes from the Carnhill (or other older) transformers used in them? Or would you say there are other components which would do this? A Review-Video of a Pre-73 with original Neve 1073 transformers would be very interesting...anyway...
Metalshad0 5 months ago
@Metalshad0 There are actually a large number of factors that relate to the sound, including the circuit, the pots and switches, but yes, the transformers play a really huge role in these things- but they are not the only role. The reality is, largely due to how remarkably wonderful the various Vintage Neve preamps sound, people like Vintech have done a fabulous job replicating it- be sure and check out our video on the 573 (Vintech's 500-series module) against a vintage 1073.
soundpurestudios 5 months ago
@Metalshad0 @Metalshad0 The biggest thing I noticed was around 600hz, on a smaller labtop setup.. I didn't feel like turning my studio on.. the x73i was sharp in this range, the neve sounded smooth, hit record smooth.. Now with this being said, I am listening to a video recording.. so It could be the video, I never emailed them! but.. when I think neve I think PURE sound! I would love to see you guys test between 400-600hz! multiband solo the band! I am so serious!
didubz 4 months ago
@didubz Thanks for the idea- unfortunately we don't have those EXACT Vintage 1073's to do that sort of testing, and the Vintage ones really do differ from one to another. When we are able to get things this close in comparing a brand new piece (with consistent components that are new), and we have various originals that are 40 years old, if we repeated the expirament over and over again (with different originals), you'd probably hear subtle differences each time- that's been our experience.
soundpurestudios 4 months ago
@didubz Thanks for the idea- unfortunately we don't have those EXACT Vintage 1073's to do that sort of testing, and the Vintage ones really do differ from one to another. When we are able to get things this close in comparing a brand new piece (with consistent components that are new), and we have various originals that are 40 years old, if we repeated the expirament over and over again (with different originals), you'd probably hear subtle differences each time- that's been our experience.
soundpurestudios 4 months ago
and for the record, I don't mean drastic changes .. It could be the key was pressed a bit harder ..
didubz 4 months ago
Slight difference But not enough to say I have to have the 1073. I have an ADL600 now Im looking foward to this x73. Thanks to the makers who make it affordable to a poor mexican like me... Q: how does the ADL600 Compare to the x73 I'm thinking should I sell my ADL600 I have a small studio i dont need nothing collecting dust.
CoGnAcDiPpEd1 6 months ago
@CoGnAcDiPpEd1 Thanks for commenting- we can definitely help you when you are ready to grab your X73i, we try to keep them in stock at all times! We happen to also like the ADL600. They are quite different sonically, but both wonderful sounding, and both very musical and versatile. What type of music and instruments are you recording? In a perfect world you could own both of these amazing things. The 1073/x73i is something very special for sure.
soundpurestudios 6 months ago
What do you think about Pre-73? I bought one and I have to say that for the price, it's really amazing!
lollofave 6 months ago
@lollofave The Pre-73 is pretty nice for the money... kind of on the edge of professional/consumer quality, but agree, for the money, it's not bad. It doesn't have the depth and dimension of this one though.
soundpurestudios 6 months ago
I have been looking at preamps for awhile and i think i will build my studio around a couple of these x73i's! I agree with the gentleman who stated the transients seemed more focused on the original but for the price difference and reliability i can certainly live with such a small difference! I really like the Peluso P12 paired with the x73! Thanks again and nicely done!
fiddlefolk 7 months ago
@fiddlefolk The differences are indeed subtle- quite honestly, vintage 1073's vary from one to another, particularly those that have had work done by different techs over the years. Agree, that given the tonal proximity, the x73i is tough to argue with- we actually have another shootout coming (acoustic guitar) with the new Vintech 573 500-series module against a vintage Neve 1073. P12/x73i is a killer combo... please let us know if/how we can help and when you are ready for those x73's!
soundpurestudios 7 months ago
Do they use tantalum caps in the Vintech? You always seem to say in your videos about the unreliability of vintage gear. If its maintained properly, it wont be unreliable.
paynebabes123 7 months ago
@paynebabes123 Generally agree, but, there is a certain fragility associated with the gear that is of a certain age, regardless of how well maintained it is. But agreed, ANY old gear requires a certain amount of TLC and maintenance, in order to get the most of it. We aren't interested in slamming old gear (we've got a lot of vintage keyboards around here for example), just enlightening people about the proximity some new gear can be to the vintage originals without the cost, or age-issues.
soundpurestudios 7 months ago
Do they use tantalum caps in the Vintech?
paynebabes123 7 months ago
@paynebabes123 Not certain on that one, sorry...
soundpurestudios 7 months ago
The Vintech's sound a little darker and a have a little less articulation on the transients. In this instance, I would buy the original 1073.
starchildExcalibur 7 months ago
@starchildExcalibur Thanks for the comment, and the careful listen- with all honesty, that hasn't been our experience at all, nor the experience of the others who have done the direct side-by-side comparison. Have you listened to our high resolution audio files? We will gladly send them your way! If you listen to the high resolution audio files blindly, your ears will probably play tricks on you the way that they have with the others around here! More shootouts coming. Thanks for posting!
soundpurestudios 7 months ago
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master9716 7 months ago
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master9716 7 months ago
i love the transients from the vintage one !!!
daverolo87 7 months ago
@daverolo87 'Thanks for watching! Extremely interesting comment- have you had a chance to request and listen to the high resolution files? Listening on youtube could be a little misleading because their compression can introduce artifacts. We actually found the key discernible difference to be a tiny bit of additional noise in the vintage unit, which may affect the youtube behavior with regard to what you are hearing as transients. Just a thought- shoot us an e-mail and we'll send the highres
soundpurestudios 7 months ago
would be cool if you didn't repeat stuff so much
michelepellino 8 months ago
@michelepellino Thanks for watching and commenting. But sorry, we are not sure that we understand what your comment is- we are always looking for ways to improve- what are you referring to, exactly? We are trying to do the best we can at releasing valuable free videos on the most exciting new audio products that we encounter, and certainly wouldn't want to do them a disservice...
soundpurestudios 8 months ago
@soundpurestudios I do appreciate your videos a lot, I'm just commenting on the pace of it.... it seems you're explaining math to a 2 year old, it's cool but too slow/ anyhow, thanks for posting!!
michelepellino 8 months ago
@michelepellino Sure, thanks... it's a tough balance- I think our videos have gotten a lot better, this one was posted over a year, but the challenge is appealing to such very diverse backgrounds... some of our subscribers barely know what a mic preamp is, and some are grammy-winning engineers, so it's really tough... perhaps this one has a bit of that "appealing to the least common denominator" to it. But, we certainly support beginners as well... thanks for watching and supporting us!
soundpurestudios 8 months ago
I respectfully disagree although i will request the hi-rez files...the low end harmonics i heard were not a product of artifacts from low rez audio...they were rich...im not saying the vintechs dont sound great..i use them all the time....that lower harmonic resonance seemed obvious to me even thru youtube
KingforadayBand 8 months ago
@KingforadayBand Sure, absolutely send us a message, and try listening in a pro studio with acoustics. Home environment, listening through youtube is not the best way to interpret this sort of incredible subtlety. I'm not saying you can't or won't hear anything. Really tremendous engineers (multi, mutli-platinum guys) have listened to this test (blindly) and could not tell... your ears will play tricks on you when you know what you are hearing if not listening blindly- try that, if you can.
soundpurestudios 8 months ago
i really did :) my name is randy funke btw....i listened thru youtube on a pair of genelecs in my home studio..it just seemed like the first low chords on the piano had a little more going on in the lower harmonics...i do work as an engineer...not saying that means anything but im just reporting what i believe i heard ;)
r
KingforadayBand 8 months ago
@KingforadayBand I recommend that you ask for the high resolution files, which we will gladly send. Anything that you heard through youtube is completely unreliable !!! Not that it won't be "in the ballpark" if you are at least listening through at 720p... but many engineers have heard the original files here in our acoustically tuned rooms without coming to that conclusion, just FYI. But yeah, you really can't trust youtube sounds- anything is possible listening through their compression !
soundpurestudios 8 months ago
hmmm i hear more low end harmonics on the original 1073's
KingforadayBand 8 months ago
@KingforadayBand Thanks for listening. If you heard real differences you are one of a tiny %! Are you saying that through YouTube, or did you request the high resolution audio files? Not sure what your listening environment is, but you will be one of the only people that have heard and posted hearing any real articulated differences. Not saying you didn't hear something, but in a year of having this posted, and a year of sending out high res audio files, few came to the same conclusion.
soundpurestudios 8 months ago
I would be happy if I could have either.
MartinRyleOShea 8 months ago
@MartinRyleOShea Thanks for the comment! We can certainly make it happen when you are ready :)
soundpurestudios 8 months ago
do any of the engineers being interviewed work regularly on an actual vintage neve console???? how would they know what to truly expect/listen for?
147xxx 9 months ago
@147xxx ?????? We are highly confused by your comment- did you watch the video? The comparison was against a Vintage Neve rack unit. This comparison was about a Vintage Neve 1073, as compared to the Vintech X73i replica. We were not comparing it to a console, nor a preamp sitting in a console. However, the Neve 1073's do come out of consoles, typically. I hope this clears up your confusion- perhaps you should take another watch of the video.
soundpurestudios 9 months ago
you missed my point. i'm talking about comparing a vintech to an actual neve housed in it's proper console, what it was designed for, with the optimal power supply voltages. these modules were made for consoles originally, and in their proper home will BLOW AWAY that vintech garbage...
147xxx 8 months ago
@147xxx If you are under the impression that the $2000 racks that house the $4000 harvested modules from original consoles are somehow underpowered, and therefore not performing up to snuff- go ahead and keep on believing that. Most Million Dollar studios that don't use old Neve consoles (due to age issues), have this exact pre setup (many of which are replacing them with Vintechs). This kind of comment and attitude suggests that you may have absoultely NO idea what you are talking about.
soundpurestudios 8 months ago
@soundpurestudios this is the kind of studio that records backstreet boys records.
147xxx 8 months ago
@147xxx Guess you were trying to slam us with this comment -sweet. Good for you. We work with Grammy winning artists, and multiple-Grammy nominees, as well as major television, and movie studios n all sorts of genres. If for some reason we've set you off, sorry for that. But we use these comments as an interesting and engaging conversation. Not a petty way to jab at each other. If you want to take jabs, please move along... we have plenty of serious watchers we want to support.
soundpurestudios 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@soundpurestudios you missed my point. i'm talking about comparing a vintech to an actual neve housed in it's proper console, what it was designed for, with the optimal power supply voltages. these modules were made for consoles originally, and in their proper home will BLOW AWAY that vintech garbage...
147xxx 8 months ago
who is Dallas?!?!?!
Zack8133 9 months ago
@Zack8133 Oh, that should have been more clear! Dallas Upton is the owner of Vintech, responsible for reverse engineering the 1073 and ultimately the creation of what is the X73i.
soundpurestudios 9 months ago
Gear sounds great to me. This argument about would one pick a Neve or a clone is stupid. lol I laugh at people that take themselves to serious. They explain that they remade it to the T. Pull the stick out your a** and let yourself realize that before there was neve there was vintage gear. Everyone that saw the neve at the time might have seen it as the new kid on the block and something not to be taken serious. Its good to honor the past but dont discount the future! Great job Vintech!
Embowafa2004 9 months ago
@Embowafa2004 Thanks for the comment. We agree with what you are saying. Vintage, New, whatever, the sound is the ultimately importance. The worst part from our perspective is that when we actually A/B compare gear here, we do it blindly, and that's probably the way it should be presented on youtube. If you tell people what they are listening to, many people, even great engineers become biased by this fact.
soundpurestudios 9 months ago
@soundpurestudios I totally agree. I enjoy what you guys are doing. I play trombone and produce for Robin Thicke and would love to come in if you guys ever are running test that you need horns for. I dont know where you are located. Im in LA. Yeah but people need to relax. No music consumer is gonna say "WAIT IS THAT A NEVE 1073 ON BEYONCES VOCALS?" "OH NO THATS A VINTECH X73i" Good is Good. lmao Cats need to relax. Everyones gonna Slap Autotune over it anyway! Get Over It!
Embowafa2004 9 months ago
@Embowafa2004 Thanks for the great post here. Unfortunately we are in NC, but if you are in the area, you are more than welcome to participate in any of the many shootouts that we are doing on all sorts of instruments. We can only afford to release a small handful of the shootouts that we actually conduct, but we are constantly testing and comparing... constantly! If you need any opinions, advice, etc. please don't hesitate to give us a ring.
soundpurestudios 9 months ago
I'm just gonna say the reason you have so many people argue with you besides the fact that everyone wants to believe the vintage gear is better, myself included, is that you guys seem to hate the vintage gear so much. I love the sounds on your shoot outs, but you guys seem so biased.
RockHardPianist 9 months ago
@RockHardPianist Thanks for the comment. We actually think that many people are so obsessed with the concept of "vintage" that they won't even consider the possibility that a new piece could replicate it. We don't hate vintage gear, in fact we love the sound. Problem is that we are looking for ways to create a sustainable future for gear, and the sustainable future lies in being able to clone sounds that we love so much- bottom line is that gear ages, and not always well. Thanks for posting!
soundpurestudios 9 months ago
A "clone" suggests that every part is identical. Like if you clone a sheep, the dna string IS identical to the original. Having said that, the vintech is a good unit for the price.
aandiee 10 months ago
@aandiee Well, It is a "clone" of the audio path, but the original parts are no longer manufactured. The X73 actually even clones the point-to-point wiring which is kind of unnecessary, hence they created the X73i which is a clone of the audio path, and transformers, but done with the use of come ciruit boards to drastically reduce the cost of labor, which Vintech is able to pass along to their customers. For those that want "clone" they can pay more for the X73, but the sound is identical.
soundpurestudios 10 months ago
With regard to why vintage units ALWAYS sound more pleasant. I believe modern manufactures producers and consumers care too much about self noise, distortion and tech specs. I believe to compete (in the specs regard) manufactures build quiet units and component manufacturers (to comply with market demand) produce quiet, low distortion, parts. Self noise is a funny one.. Too much noise (summed) sounds low fi yet the person who can hear his own heartbeat (at rest) is clearly listening the hardest.
nair0bij0nes 10 months ago
@nair0bij0nes Saying anything "always" sounds more pleasant is a gross overstatement, and simply not the case. There are countless uses, applications, mixes, situations, and needs. There is no one-trick pony for the recording world. Variety, and complimentary sounds are greatly valued in real recording studios. There is no one-sound that is distinctively "better." We appreciate your comment, but the reality is this kind of comment could mislead viewers. You should listen to the high res file
soundpurestudios 10 months ago
@soundpurestudios I'd very much like to hear the high res files.. We all monitor on different systems, in different rooms, with different capacities for different frequencies in our hearing and EVERYTHING is relative so by the very laws of physics EVERYTHING IS MISLEADING.. The views and opinions expressed by me are solely my own.. What can I tell you.. Vintage gear wins EVERY TIME for me : )
Peace ..
nair0bij0nes 10 months ago
@nair0bij0nes The concept of anything "vIntage" winning "every single time" is truly incredible to me. This particular clone is so close, that in blind shootouts when people don't actually know which one is vintage, they either don't have a preference, can't hear a difference, or are afraid to comment. We are not the only ones that have done this test, and the likes of monster (famous) engineers have done it with these results. e-mail sales(at)soundpure(dot)com for the results!
soundpurestudios 10 months ago
Quite CLOSE but AUDIBLY DIFFERENT. The deep bass response is larger, deeper and darker in the vintage unit. Self noise (present as a fine and misty hiss) is also more audible in the vintage unit. I make no value judgments about either unit and my perceived findings and results (quantitative or qualitative) are my own. Dont just take my word for it, jump from 4:31 to 5:46 feel the DARKNESS ebb and flow between units. They are both great preamps but (given a $ FREE $ choice) I'd grab the neve : )
nair0bij0nes 10 months ago
@nair0bij0nes So, given the choice, you'd take the one that was 5-7x mote money if they were both free!? Well, sure, I would to, not because the sound quality is different or any discernible difference could really matter in the real world of multitrack and deep post-production, but because it costs 5-7x times more money. If free, I'd want the more expensive one too! :) But, when it comes down to the real work, where studios need reliable tools, at reasonable prices- the Vintech can't be beat
soundpurestudios 10 months ago
@soundpurestudios Yeah, they are quite good man.. : )
nair0bij0nes 10 months ago
@soundpurestudios Nothing at all to do with economics brother. Not for resale value nor coolness factor.. I'd grab the vintage unit because I like what I hear from it, noise and all .. Quite a simple concept really : )
nair0bij0nes 10 months ago
@nair0bij0nes Well, I'm certainly not arguing with what you hear, only to say that you are one of the few. A number of the "golden ears" of Nashville, NYC, and LA have taken the test and failed to come to such a definitive conclusion. That being said, given the whirlwind price difference, few can argue about the efficacy of the clone. Vintech is the best priced accurate clone out there, but there are other good ones too: Averill for one. Thanks for commenting tho.
soundpurestudios 10 months ago
the ams neve are suppose to be alot brighter. but i dunno since ive never heard one. but i know ams has no affiliation with rupert and to spend that money and it not even be a real neve. i just orderd some portico 5012's after hearing them because the sounded very musical and the silk added some nice warmth and smoothed out the highs. anything rupert has made is just brilliant IMO.
dkillian12 10 months ago
@dkillian12 We agree! Rupert is one of the greatest builders in the history of audio. We are of course a Neve Portico dealer, hope that you got them from us! We are here to help with any comparisons that you want us to help you make, and to bounce any ideas that you might have- and of course, we will beat any price to make sure that in addition to the best possible advice, we can also get you the best possible pricing!
soundpurestudios 10 months ago
I want to buy the 273 vintech. Is there a difference (Besides the number of pres and eq) I only ask because you website only says the original x73 (Not i) is a neve replica.
Onetruthrgv 10 months ago
@Onetruthrgv The original X73 is a "pure" copy in that it utilizes the identical point-to-point wiring scheme and replica switches. That being said, the preamps between the "i" and the 273/473 utilize the same transformers which mean the sound is basically the same with the EQ disengaged. If you give us a ring, we can quote you a nice price on the 273 (plus the requisite power supply), toll free 888.528.9703, or int'l 919.682.5552 and answer any questions at all that you have! Excited to help
soundpurestudios 10 months ago
@soundpurestudios how much difference is there between new 1073's and old 1073's
headbagger63 10 months ago
@headbagger63 Unfortunately, we have not made the test ourselves, but one of our very serious clients has made the test- he reported that the 1073 replica made by the new Neve is audibly different than a vintage 1073. He told us he was very disappointed given the price and actually sent it back. HE actually ended up with 4x X73i's. For most people when it gets down to the hair splitting, they'd rather have the sound "covered" than all their money tied up in something with the Neve badge on it
soundpurestudios 10 months ago
@soundpurestudios what about 1084 and 1081 how do they sound
headbagger63 10 months ago
@headbagger63
They sound different than the 1073, and are generally considered cleaner (less colored), although because the 1081 in particular has a more powerful EQ section, it is sometimes used across a mix, less as much recording/tracking
soundpurestudios 10 months ago
@soundpurestudios Thank you very much I'm planning to build my own Project pro studio And the Neves i'm interest in buying but now i might look at vintech thank you for your help
headbagger63 10 months ago
@headbagger63 Either way, we are here for you from start to finsih- we have a team of experts at Sound Pure that can help you with everything from wiring and patchbays, to acoustic, and finally to all of the great gear selections based on your budget. Our prices or unbeatable, and our service and expertise is simply the finest, and most committed in the industry- hope that we will get the opportunity to work with you on this new studio. We should be able to save you thousands!
soundpurestudios 10 months ago
in regards to phase cancellation; is the necessity due to the natural reverberation occuring in recording stringed instruments, as the necessity to record/mix in mono in some cases is essential to the final mix? or is it more generalized in its application, as a "go-to" pre?????
T74G 10 months ago
@T74G The only reason to demonstrate the phase cancellation in this case was to match the volume levels of the two different preamps in the comparison- if one preamp was louder, even in a very slight way, one might sound better or just different than another. With the phase cancellation so tight when we tested them in this case, it was a demonstration that the volume was not only locked, but the frequencies were incredibly close to each other demonstrating their extreme similarity. Make sense?
soundpurestudios 10 months ago
@soundpurestudios
yes!!! thank u for the explanation!
T74G 10 months ago
Nice have to check out the Vintech..
RAYGproductions 11 months ago
@RAYGproductions Thanks, Ray, yes these definitely should be in your studio!
soundpurestudios 11 months ago
How does pre compare to the Aurora preamps?
Onetruthrgv 11 months ago
@Onetruthrgv Well, the Auroras are also nice, but they are not true clones of the original Neve 1073, they are sort of "twists" on the Neve design... there are a lot of companies making Neve inspired preamps- one of our favorites is the Great River MP2NV. But for the spot-on Neve thing, the Vintech is tough to argue with. And the price of the X73i is simply fantastic.
soundpurestudios 11 months ago
The pompous puffed up pontificaters that insist on using real 1073's are fooling themselves. Plain and simple. In a blind test, put any of these 1073 aficonados in a blind test with a Vintech, Great River, 1073 and BAE1073 and challenge them to spot the real one, blind. FAIL. It's the same for the U47. THEY ALL SOUND DIFFERENT! This said, I take exception to the guy saying the P12 is "an exact replica of a C12." total, and utter bullocks......Pure pimp weasel talk.
Wermiin 1 year ago
@Wermiin To a certain degree we have to agree. Even vintage 1073's will differ from one another- anything that old is bound to have subtle differences between them. But as far as the C12, Replica means replica. I'm not sure why that is bullocks? Just as 1073 replicas differ from one another in subtle ways, so do older 1073's from one another due to the aging and subtle ways transformers will differ in the aging process. This is even more true of microphone capsules. Have you heard the P12?
soundpurestudios 1 year ago
what is that rattle.. i think your guys need a piano tech before you worry about shootouts.
TheDelicateOFFICIAL 1 year ago
@TheDelicateOFFICIAL Are you serious? The piano gets tuned before every session by the top Steinway Technician in the area. It is regulated and voiced to concert caliber, and is praised by every major label pianist that comes in here to do work. If you are talking about the fact that the piano is out of tune when we did this shootout, your are Right! No, we did not tune the piano before the shootout, but I don't quite see how that is relevant in determining the comparison between two preamps?
soundpurestudios 1 year ago
Am I hearing things, or do the two samples sound anti-phase with each other. I'm surprised that nobody has caught this so far. Very strange...
VintecFreak 1 year ago
@VintecFreak Are you listening to these clips using the 720p (HD) youtube setting? If not, things can definitely be very phasey. Are you referring to the two clips sounding out of phase to each other, or the microphone positioning inside the clip sounding phasey? Perhaps you would like to hear the high resolution audio samples for yourself- you know those are always available- you just have to e-mail us and we will send them right out to you... lots of these have sent for critical listen!
soundpurestudios 1 year ago
@soundpurestudios The clips are sounding out of phase to each other. The first one sounds like it is pushing the speaker, and the other sounds like it's pulling the speaker. This is the case regardless of YouTube resolution.
VintecFreak 1 year ago
@VintecFreak Do you have the high resolution files? You will have a lot easier time determining if that's the case if you take a listen. The preamps were setup with phase reversed for the purpose of canceling each other out to match levels, but then phase was returned to neutral (99.9% sure that's the case), no one else seems to feel that way that has gotten the high res files for analysis. The youtube compression is quite poor, and unpredictable, the high res files are the real deal.
soundpurestudios 1 year ago
@soundpurestudios Thanks for the high resolution files. Now that I have the files loaded into Pro Tools, I can state with absolute certainty that your two examples are indeed polarity reversed between each other. I chopped the second (Vintec) file and placed it underneath the original Neve track to check.
VintecFreak 1 year ago
@VintecFreak They were reversed for verifying the audio indeed phase-cancelled to ensure we were at the same volume within .1dB or so. The purpose was to ensure that volume differences did not leave a lasting impression confusing the listening, and the phases weren't reset- funny thing is that despite the phase difference, people are having trouble discerning any differences! After a year and 10,000 views you are the only 1. Thanks for pointing this out. Guess they are even closer in sound!
soundpurestudios 1 year ago
@soundpurestudios I'm sure most of those 10.000 views are home studio types who don't rely on their ears to make a living. Absolute polarity problems, although subtle, are easy to pick up on because they produce nasty, non-musical overtones. If your monitors are not fast enough on the low end to hear it as is, you could always phase align the two examples and switch back and forth. If you still can't hear it, you should probably consider a new monitoring situation, or consider a new career.
VintecFreak 1 year ago
@VintecFreak A lot of very serious professional engineers with great names and great reputations have been enjoying this video, and asked for the high resolution sound clips. It's likely that they simply reversed the polarity of the clips when they got the high resolution versions to them, who knows. It's something we do frequently here without much thought, so not a big deal from our viewpoint. So, with the polarity reversed back on the out-of-phase clip, are these close enough for comfort?
soundpurestudios 1 year ago
@soundpurestudios I'm still hearing enough differences between the two, to be able to blindly pick which is which. I have also not been as successful as you as far as nulling the two examples. Even with the files carefully phase aligned, the summed files are only nulling to -28dbfs.
VintecFreak 1 year ago
@VintecFreak That doesn't even make sense... Wonder if something has happened to the files that you have or your phase convert is coloring. Picking blindly, not nulling (we were in the neighborhood of -70), phase reversed... this is not sounding right, and this has been very heavily tested by engineers all over the country. We noticed that you don't have any youtube posts other than on our site, so we have to ask, who are you? Can you tell us your name and the name of your studio?
soundpurestudios 1 year ago
@soundpurestudios I'm not sure what the number of YouTube posts has to do with my ability to listen. And revealing my name in a public forum isn't going to help the files to null as well as you are stating. I can tell you this. I am an independent mix engineer who owns a private studio, and most of the music that I work on charts well. I'm monitoring on ATC SCM300ASL speakers through a Lavry Gold D/A in an extremely accurate environment.
VintecFreak 1 year ago
@VintecFreak It's just strange that your experiences aren't confirmed by anyone else, aren't what we are experiencing here, don't conform with the long list of people that have had very different experiences, and to boot, your only posts are on our videos. Your name VintecFreak is interesting since you are trying to disprove the results that we were getting with the Vintech (and everyone else is hearing). Exposing your identity shows you are unaffiliated w/out a competitive interest
soundpurestudios 1 year ago
@soundpurestudios My experiences are indeed confirmed by other people. You’re completely ignoring the fact that a “long list of people”, who may, or may not have “great names and great reputations”, have chimed-in reporting differences in the sound of the two examples. These people may seem insignificant to you, but they are confirmed by them, and re-enforce my argument that there are indeed differences between the two examples, even though you refuse to accept this fact.
VintecFreak 1 year ago
@soundpurestudios The fact that you (henchmen inclusive) can't hear problems with absolute polarity, doesn't mean that other people can't. Two identical files will NEVER sound the same if one is reverse polarity to the other. One is pushing the speaker, and the other is pulling the speaker. With that said, as far as your two examples go, one sucks, and the other blows, so they can’t possibly sound the same, no matter how you spin it. This may not be YOUR experience, but it is a fact.
VintecFreak 1 year ago
@soundpurestudios The term ‘sales-weasel’ is really beginning to sink-in. MY purpose was to inform you that the example files are inverse polarity between each other. This is an easily proven fact, something that you have admitted to, and something that should be easily detected by “A lot of very serious professional engineers with great names and great reputations”, and NOT some kind of conspiracy theory that was cooked up in your head.
VintecFreak 1 year ago
@soundpurestudios Apparently you haven’t noticed that I never claimed to like one over the other, or you wouldn’t be insinuating that I may have a competitive interest. Personally, I'm insulted that you think that I sell audio equipment for a living. I’m extremely thankful that I've been able to make an excellent living mixing records and have not had to resort to peddling gear via YouTube infomercials.
VintecFreak 1 year ago
@soundpurestudios Not that my observations deserve any more cred than anybody else posting here, but, if you REALLY want to know who I am, you could probably put enough clues together from my posts to be able to associate me with an interview in a prominent recording magazine next month. Anyway, I’m signing off now. You may return to your regularly scheduled program.
VintecFreak 1 year ago
@soundpurestudios I also have absolutely no reason to "phase convert" the files, as they are already polarity inverted in your examples.
VintecFreak 1 year ago
@VintecFreak The purpose is to listen to the file, purportedly still phase inversed, in-phase, so that any phase differences or anomalies that you are hearing are eliminated from your ability to listen to the two files in-phase with one another.
All this being said, the real test is owning the X73i's side-by-side vintage 1073's and using them interchangeably on lots of applications, and finding yourself blindly wondering which is which, as we have done, and many other engineers have as well.
soundpurestudios 1 year ago
The original has a more pronounced room sound and richer harmonic overtones when the chords are played. The x73i has a tighter slightly punchier sound which is really apparent with the low notes, you hear the room a little less, and the chords sound less musical to my ear. but I'm listening on youtube, i'd like to hear the 24 bit files in my studio.
dresdenandjohnston 1 year ago
@dresdenandjohnston Very interesting comments for sure! We'll gladly send you the high resolution files, and if you can hear differences on youtube, you are the first! In fact, most people have had few comments regarding any discernible differences even with the high resolution audio files- and those who have have not stated any preferences for one above the other. Can you send us an e-mail to sales(at)soundpure(dot)com requesting the high res files? We will get them right out to you- Thanks!
soundpurestudios 1 year ago
@soundpurestudios one's not necessarily better than the other but there are subtle differences. There could be many reasons for this including the difference in age of the components. Also it's notable that Neve uses custom windings on their transformers which is a closely kept secret and can't be duplicated by anyone other than Neve (according to them). This is potentially going to have an effect on the sound as well. I'll email for the 24bit files, I'd love to hear them. :)
Thanks
dresdenandjohnston 1 year ago
@dresdenandjohnston No problem, we will send them along. As far as "custom transformers" that sounds like some propoganda. All of the boutique audio manufacturers use custom-wound transformers. The original Neve company hadn't made transformers for many, many years so if there was some secret it would have likely been lost over the decades. Age can certainly have a very subtle effect on even solid state devices over time, which is why we shot out an original, not a reissue on this video.
soundpurestudios 1 year ago
@dresdenandjohnston Actually, the other notable point is that in our tests that we conducted a couple years back, the Vintech actually sounded most like the original vintage unit than did the Neve reissue... we were shocked. If differences were discernible, they were most noticeable in the reissue. However, between the Vintechs and the Neve originals that we shot out (on a lot more applications that we demo'd here), the Vintechs seems as close to any one Neve as the old pre's were to eachother
soundpurestudios 1 year ago
the test isn't complete.. u should play piano in a different way.. and aslo u guys should do acoustic guitar, bass, vocal etc.. nice effort thanks for doing this...
BUT this test is to much speak and talking rather than do the test :)
ghaibboy 1 year ago
@ghaibboy We tested this on a lot more than just piano, but since the piano had the largest range, has fast articulation, and tons of harmonic information, out of all of the tests that we did, this one seemed to say the most. In our more recent tests we do attempt to demonstrate comparisons in more than just one context. Thanks for your comment-we have many more of these coming, and will take your advice into account. Let us know if you want to chat about these, since we have done more tests
soundpurestudios 1 year ago
@soundpurestudios thanks for the reply.. and thanks for guiding us into the right option of a thousand gear ou there..
keep the clean sound and video quality guys.. you are the best i guess :)
we wait here...
greetings from bali-indonesia
ghaibboy 1 year ago
@ghaibboy It's our pleasure... also, you should know, if you don't have a good pro audio dealer in your area, we can ship most of the equipment that we sell internationally (with manufacturer permission), and would be glad to help in any way that we can.
soundpurestudios 1 year ago
@soundpurestudios
wow cool.. thanks for the info.. :) ill let you guys know if we need your support in de next day.. ;) you rock !
ghaibboy 1 year ago
@ghaibboy Hey, thanks. Absolutely- the quickest and best way to reach us is by e-mail for sure at that sales(at)soundpure(dot)com e-mail address (youtube will not allow us to put the actual e-mail address on the comment)
soundpurestudios 1 year ago
It's a shame that you cannot get your hands on it in germany. :-(
kidmoonmoon 1 year ago
@kidmoonmoon If you don't have someone in Germany, we can get one to you... just get in touch with us by phone or e-mail, we can absolutely make something happen- we will speak to Vintech for you, and see if we can get one out to you from our stock. Either way you CAN get these in Germany in one way or another, and we are glad to help facilitate it. We ship a number of products all over the world.
soundpurestudios 1 year ago
@soundpurestudios
That's good to know !!!
kidmoonmoon 1 year ago
@kidmoonmoon Absolutely- we are here whenever you are ready to help make it happen (best prices around also!)
soundpurestudios 1 year ago
They forgot to do tests with hot, loud sound. That's where the 1073 gives you no distortion where other pre-amps will. So until they push the sound to the edje, this test means nothing.
jujufactory 1 year ago
@jujufactory We didn't forget- actually we tested it that way too. On a LOT of different sources, loud, quiet, fast, slow- the results are the same. We couldn't do a video on every single iteration, sorry. The range of the piano makes it a great test for preamps in general, not just Neve-clones. There are pres that claim to be Neve-style, that you are right, don't handle being pushed harder, but they don't sound identical on quiet passages either. This one handles all of it, no joke.
soundpurestudios 1 year ago
I love these shootout videos, allow me to be more confident in my choices in terms of audio gear :). Been a huge fan of the Neve 1073s~!
A little off topic, but I've been looking for TT Patchbays.. any recommendations you have?
HinSaruDongyuhk 1 year ago
@HinSaruDongyuhk A company called Audio Accessories builds the patch bays that we use in our studio. All TT on the front and DB25 on the back, they are called the DB25 to TT Quick Switch Shorti Patch Bays. Very easy to use, install and then re-format if you ever need to. No Soldering and with DB25's, it is very easy to reconfigure them. I'll send you a PM on this as well!
soundpurestudios 1 year ago
This is kinda lame. Would've way rather heard it on vocal.
Anyway, the vintage unit sounded better on top.
desol333 1 year ago
@desol333 Sorry you aren't a fan of the free video that we put out there. A vocal has a much more limited range, and a lot less attack, which would make the differences if there actually were any much harder to discern- we consciously chose not to hear any. Even among many Grammy-winning engineers that have done this very shootout, no one can hear a difference, and the last thing that they can do is say that one is better than the other. Are you basing this comment on what you heard? Thx tho.
soundpurestudios 1 year ago
I like you guys reviews and shootouts. I wanted to know if you guys have ever had the chance to listen the Joemeek OneQ? If you have how well does it do on keyboards, bass and guitars? I am trying to learn how to record use EQ and compression going into my daw and I thought at the price of Joemeek it might be a good way to break into learning how to record. Any insight or advice would help. Keep making good vids!
gclef101 1 year ago
@gclef101 Thanks for the comments! The OneQ is a great entry into outboard EQ and Compression. While the preamp and other components aren't going to be as good as the Vintech or Vintage Neve, you are getting a LOT of bang for your buck for under $1k. Depending on your needs, the OneQ will certainly get the job done. I'll PM you and we'll discuss this more at length.
soundpurestudios 1 year ago
Hi!
It's a really great think that you're doing test videos like this, but it would be better if you can show them in a mix. I think most of the replicas are usually fail in the mix.
akos15 1 year ago
@akos15 Thanks for your comment, gonna have to respectfully disagree. Any differences, if there are any at all, are going to have to at least be noticeable on a completely dry, completely clean recording. If you can't hear the differences on the dry and exposed comparison, you absolutely won't hear any as it finds its way into a more dense mix. I know what you mean by mediocre pieces of gear not hanging in the mix, but when two things sound identical, the mix definitely won't make things dif
soundpurestudios 1 year ago
@soundpurestudios x73 is not a 1073 transformer wise...or component wise. There are subtle but noticable differences.
desol333 1 year ago
@desol333 Do you mean that there are differences when you look at the transformers? OR when you HEAR the comparisons? Vintech is not the only one that has successfully cloned the original 1073 transformer- there are others that have utilized audibly identical transformer replicas. But there's a lot more to making the units the same- including the switch, circuit design, and power supply. The only difference we have been identified in countless tests on many apps is that the orig has more noise
soundpurestudios 1 year ago