Belief in God is exactly some kind of fire insurance, but with interesting twists. There is no insurance company that will pay up! The people selling the insurance policy are gangsters and madmen.
Justice: So, torture for all eternity for a lie about not eating the last piece of chicken or stealing that pack of cigarettes is a proper response? Disproportionate response is a symptom of a psychological disorder, not divinity.
Where did this "hell" shit come from anyway? Who invented it? Is it really in the Bible? I don't recall it in the Old Testament and Jeezy Baby didn't say it, so who did?
The thing about these people is that they are not seeking the truth. They KNOW the truth, and are determined to spread it. They are not seeking righteousness, they ARE righteous and are spreading it. You can't have an honest conversation with people like that, it's impossible.
At last, after 81 videos, I finally get an answer. Thank you very much. Your glarlingly false claim that I never ask anything is an excellent answer, along with your equally false claim that I "just quote mine". This demonstrates very clearly that you have no answers for any of these questions. If you did, you could have provided an answer. Instead, you had to lie, just like all superstitionists. Why can't Yahweh's message be spread without falsehoods?
@GreatBigBore - If this "question" is representative of your other "questions" (and it very much looks like it is), then no answer from anyone will ever satisfy you. Perhaps you should state in your own words exactly what you want cleared up, because there doesn't appear to be anything to clear up. Of course, I approach this from the standpoint of knowing exactly what some of those videos say outside of your dishonest quote-mining (which IS what you have done).
You said, "You never ask anything." How can you make such a claim and then follow it with "IF it's representative?" Meaning that you didn't check to see whether your claim was true before spewing it. Again, why can't Yahweh's message be spread without falsehoods?
Criticize this one video all you want. Criticize me all you want (although I'm not particularly interested). The question remains: what is wrong with Yahweh that it can't find a lie-free way to announce "good news"?
@GreatBigBore - You're sure living up to your username. I actually did follow the links to your list of "questions" that you bravely had other people ask for you. I did not read them all and I really didn't need to. A sampling of a few of them at the beginning and end of the list told me all I needed to know.
Here's a better question: why can't atheists ask questions about Christianity without resorting to all sorts of logical fallacies and displays of profound ignorance?
@JMcH So you admit that you lied, making a claim without first verifying whether it was true. You admit that you now know that it's not true, and now you change the subject. If the good news is so good, then why must it be surrounded by lies?
I'll answer your question if you answer one of mine, any one of them, and I'll give you more respect, honesty, and thoughtful analysis than you give me, guaranteed. Let's see whether your god can really enable you to provide a truthful, coherent answer.
@GreatBigBore - I said "You never ask anything" in regards to this video. You request something to be "cleared up," but then you used some dishonestly edited video clips to try to make some kind of point. It's no wonder Ray Comfort won't present your questions. Then when this is all pointed out, you have the unmitigated gall try to dodge the issue by accusing me of being the one who is dishonest and changing the subject. Sorry, but I can't provide a coherent answer to your incoherent arguments.
@JMcH "I said "You never ask anything" in regards to this video."
Oh, thanks for clearing that up. Not sure why Yahweh didn't pull on your heartstrings to clear it up earlier. You could have said that rather than, for example, "You're sure living up to your username." I suppose Yahweh instructed you to say that.
@GreatBigBore - I didn't clear it up earlier because your incoherent babblings (like the "why Yahweh didn't pull on your heartstrings" nonsense) are difficult to decipher, much like your video.
@JMcH "I didn't clear it up earlier because your incoherent babblings difficult to decipher"
Fair enough. Now that we have that cleared up, I am listening for your examples of how I changed the meaning of the edited videos, and which of my arguments is incoherent.
I am interested in your claim that my clips are dishonestly edited. In other words, you're saying that I've edited them in such a way as to change the meaning intended by the authors. Is that a fair statement? I'm bothered by that, because I care a lot about truth, although I'm sure you'll want to say something nasty in response to that. Please, in all sincerity, since you claim to have watched at least some of those vids, tell me what the authors meant that differs from my presentation.
I'm not sure which of my arguments are incoherent. I accused you of lying and you didn't respond. I'm used to this sort of thing from superstitionists, so it seems not entirely unreasonable for me to assume that you were doing the same thing. Not really a sign of incoherence; surely even among your fellow superstitionists there are occasional misunderstandings? I believe that I have presented coherent arguments, but I'm always open to criticism. Please elaborate.
@JMcH As a user who was glad to help GBB, I feel as if I am being addressed here. You are clearly confident that atheists commit "all sorts of logical fallacies" and display "profound ignorance." If this is truly the case, and you wish to engage in rational discussion, you must identify where and why our arguments are ignorant and fallacious. Look at my questions to you. Why are they illogical? That's not rhetorical; I honestly want to know. Address them and explain.
@thirtysilver - To continue to use this video as an example, the clips that have been so dishonestly edited and taken out of context (i.e. quote-mined) are not, in fact, contradictory when they are viewed in full. Take the one from the Craig-Hitchens debate. The part that is featured here shows Craig addressing one of Hitchens' many fallacies. Belief in God truly is not "fire insurance." The Bible never says anything of the sort and neither do the other videos presented which I'm familiar with.
@JMcH How is he doing 'dishonest quote mining'? William Lane Craig asserts that Christianity is not driven by fear of hell, is not about avoiding hell. Put that in any context, what he says before and after it, anything, does not change what he says. How can that be a 'quote mine'? Then he shows other people clearly saying that without Christianity you will go to hell. Again, how is that quote mining? You need to study up on your logical fallacies. You're only misusing the terms.
@CMO999 - You obviously haven't seen the debate. If it helps, there is a transcript you can find online. Craig argued against Hitchens' fallacy that theism is about avoiding Hell. It's not and Craig was right to say so. As far as I can tell (since Bore doesn't provide all the sources, which just shows more of his dishonesty), the full videos for the other clips presented don't argue that theism is about avoiding Hell.
@JMcH "Craig argued against [the] fallacy that theism is about avoiding Hell."
SH "What is wrong with spending eternity in Hell?...The whole point of Christianity...is to safeguard the eternal well-being of human souls."
WLC "...because the goal on theism is to avoid hell. Honestly, that simply shows how poorly Sam Harris understands Christianity. You don't believe in 'god' to avoid going to hell. Belief in 'god' isn't some kind of fire insurance...It has nothing to do with avoiding hell."
@GreatBigBore - "For example, in response to my claim that if God exists, then objective moral values exist, we heard that I haven’t truly offered an alternative to his view, because the goal on theism is to avoid Hell. Honestly, that just simply shows how poorly Sam Harris understands Christianity. You don’t believe in God to avoid going to Hell. Belief in God isn’t some kind of fire insurance."
@GreatBigBore - "You believe in God because God, as the supreme good, is the appropriate object of adoration and love. He is goodness itself to be desired for its own sake. And so the fulfillment of human existence is to be found in relation to God. It’s is because of who God is and his moral worth that he is worthy of worship. It has nothing to do with avoiding Hell, or promoting your own well-being."
@JMcH Since no god is evident, goodness is the goodness you imagine. There is nothing wrong with imagining goodness. Please stop imagining it comes from outside yourself. Why are Buddhists good when for them there is no creator. Goodness for Buddhists is a responsibility. Open up a bit and let go of the idea you need a skypop to be good. If you think there is no good without god then why is 20% of the population atheists yet less than 0.5% of prison population atheists?
@JMcH Those are direct quotes. I have reviewed them carefully, and I conclude that I have not misinterpreted either speaker. I also genuinely believe that I am telling the truth. Now, if you disagree with me on the interpretation of these quotes, that's fine. But it's hardly "dishonest quote-mining."
If you disagree with my interpretation, we have nothing left to discuss. However, since you seem willing to hear some of my questions, I invite you to address any of them, perhaps even just #1.
@JMcH "the full videos for the other clips presented don't argue that theism is about avoiding Hell."
And I neither claimed nor implied any such thing. The point of my video was to demonstrate that in spite of Craig's protestations to the contrary, many, many superstitionists make hell the fulcrum of their entire argument. If you were to take the threats of hell out of any of those videos, the entire meaning of the videos would be changed.
@GreatBigBore - Yes, you never really claimed nor implied anything at all. You said you wanted something "cleared up," but then instead of actually stating specifically what you wanted cleared up, you presented hacked up clips with no clearly discernible point. Why do you have such a problem with actually stating in your own words what you want cleared up?
@JMcH "you presented hacked up clips with no clearly discernible point"
Did you read the part where I said, "The point of my video was...". Why harp on a weakness in my delivery that I've already addressed? Why won't Yahweh help you with this? Jesus promised that you'd get help. Still interested in your thoughts on any of my actual questions, or even your thoughts on my actual point in this video.
@GreatBigBore - Yeah, your retroactively applied point was, as I already pointed out, based upon dishonestly edited clips. It's like talking to a police officer or judge, then selectively quoting only those things he says about prison, and then claiming that the "fulcrum" of his job is prison.
You know, I can tell when I'm getting to you. You trot out the mocking "why won't Yahweh help you" bit.
@GreatBigBore - An honest discussion? You mock me with statements like "Why won't Yahweh help you" and you accuse me of having no intention of having an honest discussion? Pot, please meet kettle. You obviously cannot deny my analogy regarding your tactics, so you quickly excuse yourself from the discussion with a false, hypocritical accusation. Whatever. You've only proved your ability to project. Good riddance.
@JMcH Damn, I have to keep trying. You seem almost reachable. Here's what I'm saying. Just try this out: go to any one of those vids I quoted and watch the whole thing. Now, take out all the fear. What is left of the message? I claim that the message becomes irrelevant once you remove the fear. Can we forget about all of the other stuff and just talk about that one thing? That's the whole point of all of this.
There's one more; I'm still looking for it. But you could watch any one of those. You don't have to watch all of them to see what I'm talking about. My whole point is that the entire message is based on fear. Once you remove the fear, all the rest of the message falls apart.
@GreatBigBore - This will be short and to the point and I'm not going to argue endlessly with you about it. The "fulcrum," as you put it," is God/Jesus, not Hell (or fear of Hell). Rewatch the videos and listen carefully to them. How many times is Hell mentioned vs. God/Jesus? If Hell were the "fulcrum," it would be mentioned far more often.
Take that as you will. I kind of doubt you'll bother reevaluating the videos and your position, though. In any case, I'm through now. Take care!
@JMcH "I kind of doubt you'll bother reevaluating the videos and your position"
I will go through the videos and my position step-by-step with you, with a fully open mind, if you'll just honestly answer the question I asked before: how many would convert if you left all fear out of the conversation and told people they have to change their sex lives? It's not the number of times hell is mentioned; it's whether evangelism would work with NO mentions of hell. That's why I say "fulcrum".
@JMcH I'm not interested in arguing. I'm interested in reaching you. I think you might be on the threshold of something. I know that you're offended when I ask questions about Yahweh, and you probably believe that offense is my intention. But that's not the case. My questions about Yahweh are honest questions. Like this one: if Yahweh cares about truth, then why are you shrinking back from the truth? Why would you be afraid of the truth? I'm not mocking; I understand fear. But don't fear truth.
@JMcH In fact, now that I think about it, you need not watch any of those videos. Just ask yourself what would happen if you tried to evangelize someone but never told them about anything they'd be afraid of? How many people do you think you could convert, especially if you tell them that something about their sex lives is not ok with Jesus.
@JMcH I have seen the debate. It is well known that using fear of hell is a common tactic for indoctrinating people. I'm pretty sure Bore provides a link to the debate somewhere, and even if he doesn't it's really easy to find. You are the dishonest one. Denying that hell is used as a fear tactic only exposes your dishonesty. Why is it that I often have to point out the most obvious things when debating with Christians, like you guys are playing a game of denying what is plain?
@CMO999 - The only thing you point out is your ignorance of what Christians are like. You've created this flawed, imaginary version of them in your head and pretend that it's real. For example: "using fear of hell is a common tactic for indoctrinating people." That's like saying, "using fear of prison is a common tactic for indoctrinating people." Is prison a "fear tactic" that the police use to force people to obey the law?
@JMcH "That's like saying, "using fear of prison is a common tactic for indoctrinating people." Is prison a "fear tactic" that the police use to force people to obey the law?" uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuhhh... YES! What planet do you live on?
@JMcH No, avoiding jail is not the only reason to obey the law, just like avoiding hell is not the only reason to become Christian. I often find myself having these sorts of conversations with Christians where I have to say very simple obvious things, like you are playing a game of denying reality for some reason. Why is that?
I never could come to grips with the whole Hell paradox. Having been raised Catholic, I was taught that if you weren't a Catholic Christian, you were basically Hell bound. That never made sense to me. I guess Heaven is going to be a pretty quiet place, considering how few ways there are to get there... Actually, I pretty much came to the conclusion that being human makes it impossible to get to Heaven. Oh to Hell with it! I guess I'll start believing in the Flying Spaghetti Monster from now on!
@JadeEyedWolf You're right, being human makes it impossible to get to Heaven. That is why God sent his only begotten son Jesus Christ to die for our sins. Only through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ can one attain eternal salvation.
It's all they have left is threats. We have outgrown the shit excuse for morals the bible offers. All they have now is threats of eternal fire. Hell beats hanging around gods followers licking his ass forever.
This is what makes makes arguing the dogma so difficult. Every individual denomination and even every person WITHIN those denominations believes something slightly to vastly different from the others and when we point out any doctrinal "problem", most of them can simply declare that we aren't talking to THEM and their beliefs. Rather than concentrating on the specific, it's perhaps better to point out the flaw in believing ANYTHING without evidence.
@ozmoroid Reminds of the story I read online. Heaven declared that everyone was going to hell. The story is about humanity declaring war on Heaven and Hell.
You should have included Bill O'Reilly browbeating that theologian over how the Judeo-Christian tradition is all about retribution in the afterlife. (Needless to say, Bill promises the poor guy the last word, then tells him that he'll be up in heaven with Hitler, and then, apparently, he'll be sorry).
I'll try to clear it up. Craig is right when he says belief in God isn't fire insurance. It's giving into a protection racket against a manufactured threat of fire. But Craig isn't going to say that.
@GreatBigBore That's a miiiighty fine soul you got there. Would be a reeeeaaaal shame if anything happened to it... Wouldn't it, Benny? Break 'is legs.
@GreatBigBore A protection racket with an imaginary threat to something for-which there is no evidence that you actually HAVE. Your mind has to boggle at the size of the balls it takes to pull that shit off.
this is the biggest disconnect from reality the church faces.
as the great George Carlin has already pointed out 20 years ago:
"he will send you to this horrible place [...] to burn for all eternity - but he loves you."
it is quite clear that the hell-subject is also the source of many pick-and-choose-descisions made by christians. and when This is questionable then That could be too, right?
The problem: the idea alone is powerful enough to entice fear - even in non-believers.
I will just stick with Hyper Pascal's Wager. Live life as terribly as I can, then repent and believe in god right at the last moment. All perfectly acceptable by Christian doctrine, the ultimate loophole (minus a sudden death).
I is heckler: Mr Bore you are going to HELL and it's really gona hurt, real bad and sting too...they never mention the stinging but it happens! AND your nose will fill up with brimstone and make you sneeze repeatedly and thats really annoying..you'll see!!
@seeker447 Yeah! Not to mention it will be REALLY embarrassing when your clothes burn off! Eh! People don't talk about that either. But just you wait. The other hell-dwellers are gonna SO laugh at you! You'll see!
No, it's personal liability insurance, surely ? And can be taken out just before death ? And the premiums are not living in reality...too much to pay...
Every single time someone tries to defend theism, they seem to use the same dozen or so arguments that have been shot down countless times before them.
I'd ask why these people don't do their homework beforehand, but then I realized: If they did, they'd stop being theists.
@swiggydiggy - I think the worst part are the theists that laugh about you going to hell. Like you being tortured is some sort of amusement for the people accepted into heaven.
Like they'll look down from the clouds to point and laugh at people that are being burned in a lake of fire.
@lobothesacred3 That is actually what one of the ancient christian theologians believed was part of being in heaven with god - the ability to take a leisurely stroll through the gardens to the edge of heaven so one can be filled with joy and delight in beholding the divine justice of the unrepentant writhing and gnashing their teeth in pain and anguish in the lake of fire. Ahhhh, to sip coffee with jeebus and listen to god's orchestrated sights and sounds of hell - a psychopath's heaven.
@rictusgate - Your description just makes me think about how hangings are depicted in the movies. Like watching people being hanged to death is some form of big entertainment.
Then, again the Romans used executions as a form of entertainment in the Roman Coliseum. I guess killing and torturing people is a form of entertainment for some people and even more people seem to enjoy watching it. I'm not sure which is worse.
@lobothesacred3 I do believe that this need to watch others die or suffer is a form of voyeurism . . . and we humans are replete with many forms of this - virtually every TV program is predicated on voyeurism - and not just the daytime soaps, you have to incl. shows like Star Trek, Dexter, Seinfeld, etc. There's nothing better than to be privy to the lives of others (unbeknowst, of course) - to watch those you care for gain and the hated ones suffer - even if they are fictional. Mirror neurons
@rictusgate - The same would apply to games I guess. Even, though your only killing defenseless pixels. Unless you take that old show on toonami called ReBoot as reflective of the reality inside your computer or console games.
@lobothesacred3 The scariest fact remains though - the dogmas of institutionalized religion are used as an unquestionable buffer to sanction the most grotesque of these voyeuristic leanings - to be under the command to only fear the retribution of the divine lawgiver without heed to your fellow human is a deeply monstrous doctrine (this is commanded by jeebus & upheld in the epistles as well as occurring in the OT decalogue and Proverbs).
@rictusgate - Yet, Christians often go on and on about how Jesus is love and got rid of the eye for an eye morality. Of course, they then seem to turn around and support this form of morality.
Though, they seem to remove God from being held accountable for his actions. Since, no one can force him to behave in a moral way. In the Christian mindset it seems that morality has to come down from a hierarchy and be enforced with punishment and threats of eternal torture.
@lobothesacred3 "remove God from being held accountable" - and this isn't an exaggeration - WLC himself wrote a trite little essay granting him (god) immunity in regards to the very moral laws he is the author of - he is literally above any moral duties or obligations. I would ask him something - do you feel that politicians are above the laws they make? Or that the police need not follow the laws they enforce? Or that courts/judges can give the laws they interpret "the bird"?
@rictusgate - My best guess to WLC response would be still end up being that there isn't a being powerful enough to force God to follow his own rules. God can break his laws and interpret them how he/she/it wants because he/she/it has the power.
Morality in the Christian perspective seems to boil down to a crude status of might makes right.
@lobothesacred3 "Morality in the Christian perspective seems to boil down to a crude status of might makes right." That certainly seems to be the gist of the book of Job!
@lobothesacred3 Hey, my internet went down for a whole week one time, I can tell you, I'd have eagerly lined up to see a hanging if it had gone on another week! ;)
@lobothesacred3 That there is part of the whole "just world hypothesis" that is so integral to most faiths, that bad things happen to people because they "deserve it" for crimes real of imagined (or thought). Which is close enough to sociopathy that it would score points if it was horseshoes.
@swiggydiggy - Sort of like Pat Robertson saying the earthquake that struck Haiti and killed hundreds of people occurred because they had made a deal with Satan?
I don't even understand the whole "just world hypothesis". The Christians are able to escape "just punishment" by begging and pleading with God to spare them. Christianity isn't about justice but about believing in the "right God". Anything else is deserving of eternal punishment and torture.
@lobothesacred3 Understand that to christians, the whole "I am fundamentally a bad person and must get down on my knees and orally venerate teh jeezus because he's awesome" essentially gives them a free pass.
And of course, the near-universal logical fallacy where everything one does is wholly justifiable, regardless of how contrary it is to their ostensibly held core values (see the aforementioned bigot throwing accusations of devilry at a country that's EIGHTY FOUR PERCENT CHRISTIAN,)
@swiggydiggy - "And of course, the near-universal logical fallacy where everything one does is wholly justifiable, regardless of how contrary it is to their ostensibly held core values (see the aforementioned bigot throwing accusations of devilry at a country that's EIGHTY FOUR PERCENT CHRISTIAN,)"
Well in the eyes of some Christians a few bad apples is enough to anger God to wash away the believers with the nonbelievers. That's why Tornadoes and stuff kill indiscriminately.
I have to imagine that the toughest choice these guys make is which side of their mouths to lie out of.
It's sickening that they assume that nobody can keep two concepts in their heads at a time, and that they will therefore never be caught in a contradiction.
The Book of Job sums it up well. Job is singled out among all men for the virtue of fearing God. And this was Old Testament before the idea of Hell was even introduced.
I pray that one of these ignorant fucks asks me whether I believe I'm going to heaven or hell one day.
Then I can ask, "Which hell? The one that everyone seemed to forget to talk about throughout the entirety of the Tanakh? Must not have been that important.
"And which Satan? The one plagiarized from Zoroastrianism's Ahriman when post-exile Jews decided a God that "creates" evil and hardens people's hearts might not be so omnibenevolent?"
@GreatBigBore No, your videos are just too serious for apologists to handle. There will be the occasional philosophy troll, I suspect, but simple people can only respond to videos that are simple enough for them to understand. Coughlan is great, but he makes simpler videos. I don't think you're boring at all, but there may be a bit of truth to your sn in that respect.
@GreatBigBore You're just more lovable than Coughlan is. (Most people are.) But you can pretend this is hate mail! "I disapprove of you and think you are a bad person and stuff! So there!"
Where WLC (and most apologists, to be frank) is concerned, if they're already making it up from the start - asserting that this god is real - there's nothing to stop them making up more shit without a care in the world. He can say whatever he likes and it's just as valid / invalid as anything Ray Comfort says.
Belief in God is exactly some kind of fire insurance, but with interesting twists. There is no insurance company that will pay up! The people selling the insurance policy are gangsters and madmen.
drfoxcourt 9 months ago
Justice: So, torture for all eternity for a lie about not eating the last piece of chicken or stealing that pack of cigarettes is a proper response? Disproportionate response is a symptom of a psychological disorder, not divinity.
RyuDarragh 9 months ago
Where did this "hell" shit come from anyway? Who invented it? Is it really in the Bible? I don't recall it in the Old Testament and Jeezy Baby didn't say it, so who did?
NoFaithNoPain 9 months ago
The thing about these people is that they are not seeking the truth. They KNOW the truth, and are determined to spread it. They are not seeking righteousness, they ARE righteous and are spreading it. You can't have an honest conversation with people like that, it's impossible.
CMO999 10 months ago
So... it's not really a question, is it? You never ask anything. You just quote mine random bits of Christian videos and pretend its an argument.
JMcH 10 months ago
@JMcH "You never ask anything."
At last, after 81 videos, I finally get an answer. Thank you very much. Your glarlingly false claim that I never ask anything is an excellent answer, along with your equally false claim that I "just quote mine". This demonstrates very clearly that you have no answers for any of these questions. If you did, you could have provided an answer. Instead, you had to lie, just like all superstitionists. Why can't Yahweh's message be spread without falsehoods?
GreatBigBore 10 months ago
@GreatBigBore - If this "question" is representative of your other "questions" (and it very much looks like it is), then no answer from anyone will ever satisfy you. Perhaps you should state in your own words exactly what you want cleared up, because there doesn't appear to be anything to clear up. Of course, I approach this from the standpoint of knowing exactly what some of those videos say outside of your dishonest quote-mining (which IS what you have done).
JMcH 10 months ago
@JMcH
IF?
IF!
You said, "You never ask anything." How can you make such a claim and then follow it with "IF it's representative?" Meaning that you didn't check to see whether your claim was true before spewing it. Again, why can't Yahweh's message be spread without falsehoods?
Criticize this one video all you want. Criticize me all you want (although I'm not particularly interested). The question remains: what is wrong with Yahweh that it can't find a lie-free way to announce "good news"?
GreatBigBore 10 months ago
@GreatBigBore - You're sure living up to your username. I actually did follow the links to your list of "questions" that you bravely had other people ask for you. I did not read them all and I really didn't need to. A sampling of a few of them at the beginning and end of the list told me all I needed to know.
Here's a better question: why can't atheists ask questions about Christianity without resorting to all sorts of logical fallacies and displays of profound ignorance?
JMcH 10 months ago
@JMcH So you admit that you lied, making a claim without first verifying whether it was true. You admit that you now know that it's not true, and now you change the subject. If the good news is so good, then why must it be surrounded by lies?
I'll answer your question if you answer one of mine, any one of them, and I'll give you more respect, honesty, and thoughtful analysis than you give me, guaranteed. Let's see whether your god can really enable you to provide a truthful, coherent answer.
GreatBigBore 10 months ago
@GreatBigBore - I said "You never ask anything" in regards to this video. You request something to be "cleared up," but then you used some dishonestly edited video clips to try to make some kind of point. It's no wonder Ray Comfort won't present your questions. Then when this is all pointed out, you have the unmitigated gall try to dodge the issue by accusing me of being the one who is dishonest and changing the subject. Sorry, but I can't provide a coherent answer to your incoherent arguments.
JMcH 10 months ago
@JMcH "I said "You never ask anything" in regards to this video."
Oh, thanks for clearing that up. Not sure why Yahweh didn't pull on your heartstrings to clear it up earlier. You could have said that rather than, for example, "You're sure living up to your username." I suppose Yahweh instructed you to say that.
(More)
GreatBigBore 10 months ago
@GreatBigBore - I didn't clear it up earlier because your incoherent babblings (like the "why Yahweh didn't pull on your heartstrings" nonsense) are difficult to decipher, much like your video.
JMcH 10 months ago
@JMcH "I didn't clear it up earlier because your incoherent babblings difficult to decipher"
Fair enough. Now that we have that cleared up, I am listening for your examples of how I changed the meaning of the edited videos, and which of my arguments is incoherent.
GreatBigBore 10 months ago
@JMcH
I am interested in your claim that my clips are dishonestly edited. In other words, you're saying that I've edited them in such a way as to change the meaning intended by the authors. Is that a fair statement? I'm bothered by that, because I care a lot about truth, although I'm sure you'll want to say something nasty in response to that. Please, in all sincerity, since you claim to have watched at least some of those vids, tell me what the authors meant that differs from my presentation.
GreatBigBore 10 months ago
@JMcH "incoherent arguments."
I'm not sure which of my arguments are incoherent. I accused you of lying and you didn't respond. I'm used to this sort of thing from superstitionists, so it seems not entirely unreasonable for me to assume that you were doing the same thing. Not really a sign of incoherence; surely even among your fellow superstitionists there are occasional misunderstandings? I believe that I have presented coherent arguments, but I'm always open to criticism. Please elaborate.
GreatBigBore 10 months ago
@JMcH As a user who was glad to help GBB, I feel as if I am being addressed here. You are clearly confident that atheists commit "all sorts of logical fallacies" and display "profound ignorance." If this is truly the case, and you wish to engage in rational discussion, you must identify where and why our arguments are ignorant and fallacious. Look at my questions to you. Why are they illogical? That's not rhetorical; I honestly want to know. Address them and explain.
thirtysilver 10 months ago
@thirtysilver - To continue to use this video as an example, the clips that have been so dishonestly edited and taken out of context (i.e. quote-mined) are not, in fact, contradictory when they are viewed in full. Take the one from the Craig-Hitchens debate. The part that is featured here shows Craig addressing one of Hitchens' many fallacies. Belief in God truly is not "fire insurance." The Bible never says anything of the sort and neither do the other videos presented which I'm familiar with.
JMcH 10 months ago
@JMcH How is he doing 'dishonest quote mining'? William Lane Craig asserts that Christianity is not driven by fear of hell, is not about avoiding hell. Put that in any context, what he says before and after it, anything, does not change what he says. How can that be a 'quote mine'? Then he shows other people clearly saying that without Christianity you will go to hell. Again, how is that quote mining? You need to study up on your logical fallacies. You're only misusing the terms.
CMO999 10 months ago
@CMO999 - You obviously haven't seen the debate. If it helps, there is a transcript you can find online. Craig argued against Hitchens' fallacy that theism is about avoiding Hell. It's not and Craig was right to say so. As far as I can tell (since Bore doesn't provide all the sources, which just shows more of his dishonesty), the full videos for the other clips presented don't argue that theism is about avoiding Hell.
JMcH 10 months ago
@JMcH "Craig argued against [the] fallacy that theism is about avoiding Hell."
SH "What is wrong with spending eternity in Hell?...The whole point of Christianity...is to safeguard the eternal well-being of human souls."
WLC "...because the goal on theism is to avoid hell. Honestly, that simply shows how poorly Sam Harris understands Christianity. You don't believe in 'god' to avoid going to hell. Belief in 'god' isn't some kind of fire insurance...It has nothing to do with avoiding hell."
GreatBigBore 10 months ago
@GreatBigBore - "For example, in response to my claim that if God exists, then objective moral values exist, we heard that I haven’t truly offered an alternative to his view, because the goal on theism is to avoid Hell. Honestly, that just simply shows how poorly Sam Harris understands Christianity. You don’t believe in God to avoid going to Hell. Belief in God isn’t some kind of fire insurance."
JMcH 10 months ago
@GreatBigBore - "You believe in God because God, as the supreme good, is the appropriate object of adoration and love. He is goodness itself to be desired for its own sake. And so the fulfillment of human existence is to be found in relation to God. It’s is because of who God is and his moral worth that he is worthy of worship. It has nothing to do with avoiding Hell, or promoting your own well-being."
JMcH 10 months ago
@JMcH Since no god is evident, goodness is the goodness you imagine. There is nothing wrong with imagining goodness. Please stop imagining it comes from outside yourself. Why are Buddhists good when for them there is no creator. Goodness for Buddhists is a responsibility. Open up a bit and let go of the idea you need a skypop to be good. If you think there is no good without god then why is 20% of the population atheists yet less than 0.5% of prison population atheists?
NotEnoughLions 10 months ago
@JMcH Those are direct quotes. I have reviewed them carefully, and I conclude that I have not misinterpreted either speaker. I also genuinely believe that I am telling the truth. Now, if you disagree with me on the interpretation of these quotes, that's fine. But it's hardly "dishonest quote-mining."
If you disagree with my interpretation, we have nothing left to discuss. However, since you seem willing to hear some of my questions, I invite you to address any of them, perhaps even just #1.
GreatBigBore 10 months ago
@JMcH "the full videos for the other clips presented don't argue that theism is about avoiding Hell."
And I neither claimed nor implied any such thing. The point of my video was to demonstrate that in spite of Craig's protestations to the contrary, many, many superstitionists make hell the fulcrum of their entire argument. If you were to take the threats of hell out of any of those videos, the entire meaning of the videos would be changed.
GreatBigBore 10 months ago
@GreatBigBore - Yes, you never really claimed nor implied anything at all. You said you wanted something "cleared up," but then instead of actually stating specifically what you wanted cleared up, you presented hacked up clips with no clearly discernible point. Why do you have such a problem with actually stating in your own words what you want cleared up?
JMcH 10 months ago
@JMcH "you presented hacked up clips with no clearly discernible point"
Did you read the part where I said, "The point of my video was...". Why harp on a weakness in my delivery that I've already addressed? Why won't Yahweh help you with this? Jesus promised that you'd get help. Still interested in your thoughts on any of my actual questions, or even your thoughts on my actual point in this video.
GreatBigBore 10 months ago
@GreatBigBore - Yeah, your retroactively applied point was, as I already pointed out, based upon dishonestly edited clips. It's like talking to a police officer or judge, then selectively quoting only those things he says about prison, and then claiming that the "fulcrum" of his job is prison.
You know, I can tell when I'm getting to you. You trot out the mocking "why won't Yahweh help you" bit.
JMcH 10 months ago
@JMcH "I can tell when I'm getting to you."
I see. You have no intention of having an honest discussion. I won't waste my time further, thanks.
GreatBigBore 10 months ago
@GreatBigBore - An honest discussion? You mock me with statements like "Why won't Yahweh help you" and you accuse me of having no intention of having an honest discussion? Pot, please meet kettle. You obviously cannot deny my analogy regarding your tactics, so you quickly excuse yourself from the discussion with a false, hypocritical accusation. Whatever. You've only proved your ability to project. Good riddance.
JMcH 10 months ago
@JMcH Damn, I have to keep trying. You seem almost reachable. Here's what I'm saying. Just try this out: go to any one of those vids I quoted and watch the whole thing. Now, take out all the fear. What is left of the message? I claim that the message becomes irrelevant once you remove the fear. Can we forget about all of the other stuff and just talk about that one thing? That's the whole point of all of this.
GreatBigBore 10 months ago
@GreatBigBore - Provide links to all the videos, then. I know a few, but not all.
JMcH 10 months ago
@JMcH
/watch?v=YDqz7taF5Dg
/watch?v=Z6t0s7fpg1M
/watch?v=cVco8t-R8KU
/watch?v=k4lo1V5OJ7c
There's one more; I'm still looking for it. But you could watch any one of those. You don't have to watch all of them to see what I'm talking about. My whole point is that the entire message is based on fear. Once you remove the fear, all the rest of the message falls apart.
GreatBigBore 10 months ago
@JMcH /watch?v=7JiESHIYIJg
GreatBigBore 10 months ago
@GreatBigBore - This will be short and to the point and I'm not going to argue endlessly with you about it. The "fulcrum," as you put it," is God/Jesus, not Hell (or fear of Hell). Rewatch the videos and listen carefully to them. How many times is Hell mentioned vs. God/Jesus? If Hell were the "fulcrum," it would be mentioned far more often.
Take that as you will. I kind of doubt you'll bother reevaluating the videos and your position, though. In any case, I'm through now. Take care!
JMcH 9 months ago
@JMcH "I kind of doubt you'll bother reevaluating the videos and your position"
I will go through the videos and my position step-by-step with you, with a fully open mind, if you'll just honestly answer the question I asked before: how many would convert if you left all fear out of the conversation and told people they have to change their sex lives? It's not the number of times hell is mentioned; it's whether evangelism would work with NO mentions of hell. That's why I say "fulcrum".
GreatBigBore 9 months ago
@JMcH I'm not interested in arguing. I'm interested in reaching you. I think you might be on the threshold of something. I know that you're offended when I ask questions about Yahweh, and you probably believe that offense is my intention. But that's not the case. My questions about Yahweh are honest questions. Like this one: if Yahweh cares about truth, then why are you shrinking back from the truth? Why would you be afraid of the truth? I'm not mocking; I understand fear. But don't fear truth.
GreatBigBore 9 months ago
@JMcH In fact, now that I think about it, you need not watch any of those videos. Just ask yourself what would happen if you tried to evangelize someone but never told them about anything they'd be afraid of? How many people do you think you could convert, especially if you tell them that something about their sex lives is not ok with Jesus.
GreatBigBore 10 months ago
@JMcH I hope we're still talking. This seems important.
GreatBigBore 10 months ago
@GreatBigBore - Of course, but I have other obligations first.
JMcH 9 months ago
@JMcH I have seen the debate. It is well known that using fear of hell is a common tactic for indoctrinating people. I'm pretty sure Bore provides a link to the debate somewhere, and even if he doesn't it's really easy to find. You are the dishonest one. Denying that hell is used as a fear tactic only exposes your dishonesty. Why is it that I often have to point out the most obvious things when debating with Christians, like you guys are playing a game of denying what is plain?
CMO999 10 months ago
@CMO999 - The only thing you point out is your ignorance of what Christians are like. You've created this flawed, imaginary version of them in your head and pretend that it's real. For example: "using fear of hell is a common tactic for indoctrinating people." That's like saying, "using fear of prison is a common tactic for indoctrinating people." Is prison a "fear tactic" that the police use to force people to obey the law?
JMcH 10 months ago
@JMcH "That's like saying, "using fear of prison is a common tactic for indoctrinating people." Is prison a "fear tactic" that the police use to force people to obey the law?" uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuhhh... YES! What planet do you live on?
CMO999 10 months ago
@CMO999 - Oy. I live on Earth, which is light-years away from wherever you are. So people only obey the law to stay out of jail?
JMcH 10 months ago
@JMcH No, avoiding jail is not the only reason to obey the law, just like avoiding hell is not the only reason to become Christian. I often find myself having these sorts of conversations with Christians where I have to say very simple obvious things, like you are playing a game of denying reality for some reason. Why is that?
CMO999 10 months ago
I never could come to grips with the whole Hell paradox. Having been raised Catholic, I was taught that if you weren't a Catholic Christian, you were basically Hell bound. That never made sense to me. I guess Heaven is going to be a pretty quiet place, considering how few ways there are to get there... Actually, I pretty much came to the conclusion that being human makes it impossible to get to Heaven. Oh to Hell with it! I guess I'll start believing in the Flying Spaghetti Monster from now on!
JadeEyedWolf 10 months ago
@JadeEyedWolf You're right, being human makes it impossible to get to Heaven. That is why God sent his only begotten son Jesus Christ to die for our sins. Only through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ can one attain eternal salvation.
CMO999 10 months ago
It's all they have left is threats. We have outgrown the shit excuse for morals the bible offers. All they have now is threats of eternal fire. Hell beats hanging around gods followers licking his ass forever.
jwissick 10 months ago
Religion: Emotional Terrorism.
soulure 10 months ago
It's more like mafia insurance.
pedroamaralcouto 10 months ago
I have a question... is free will two choices?
AkuZod 10 months ago
God first tells you he will burn your house down and then tries to sell you insurance for it.
FHomeBrew 10 months ago
Where are the faithful lately..? There was a time that the god-fearing Youtube population attempted to answer critical questions.
I must admit that I did not read all the comments on this thread, but it looks like there is a clear lack of apologetic input...
Might this be connected to the new trend of 'stealth-christianity'..?
studioROT 10 months ago
Obviously Craig is being heretical. I mean Christians not agreeing on scripture, who knew?
Schneboll 10 months ago
This is what makes makes arguing the dogma so difficult. Every individual denomination and even every person WITHIN those denominations believes something slightly to vastly different from the others and when we point out any doctrinal "problem", most of them can simply declare that we aren't talking to THEM and their beliefs. Rather than concentrating on the specific, it's perhaps better to point out the flaw in believing ANYTHING without evidence.
AncientAtheist 10 months ago
If all Christian churches announced that everyone, regardless of belief, was going to Heaven, I wonder how members they'd have the following Sunday?
ozmoroid 10 months ago
@ozmoroid "Some say that without Jesus, there is no morality. I say that without fear, there are no Christians." --Me
GreatBigBore 10 months ago 6
@ozmoroid They lost their biggest draw when the stopped being able to burn heretics.
pumkinpi2 10 months ago
@ozmoroid actualy some churches do say that and people still go
kainniak1 10 months ago
@ozmoroid Reminds of the story I read online. Heaven declared that everyone was going to hell. The story is about humanity declaring war on Heaven and Hell.
Sines314 10 months ago
You should have included Bill O'Reilly browbeating that theologian over how the Judeo-Christian tradition is all about retribution in the afterlife. (Needless to say, Bill promises the poor guy the last word, then tells him that he'll be up in heaven with Hitler, and then, apparently, he'll be sorry).
wilfredthebold 10 months ago
I'll try to clear it up. Craig is right when he says belief in God isn't fire insurance. It's giving into a protection racket against a manufactured threat of fire. But Craig isn't going to say that.
teavea10 10 months ago 17
@teavea10 "protection racket"
That's an awesome description; I'd never thought of it that way, but you're absolutely right. Yahweh is a gangster who will hurt us if we don't pay.
GreatBigBore 10 months ago 10
@GreatBigBore That's a miiiighty fine soul you got there. Would be a reeeeaaaal shame if anything happened to it... Wouldn't it, Benny? Break 'is legs.
EdwardHowton 10 months ago
@GreatBigBore "Yahweh is a gangster"
Yup. God's making us an offer we can't refuse. Or at least that is what Ray Comfort and his type try to make people believe.
teavea10 10 months ago
@GreatBigBore A protection racket with an imaginary threat to something for-which there is no evidence that you actually HAVE. Your mind has to boggle at the size of the balls it takes to pull that shit off.
GoblinXXX 10 months ago
@GoblinXXX "imaginary threat"
Don't forget the imaginary reward. It's important. It complements the imaginary threat making both look more plausible.
teavea10 10 months ago
@GreatBigBore If you haven' seen it since this post, Matt Dilahunty does a pretty good analogy with Yahweh as the ultimate mob boss.
Sines314 7 months ago
this is the biggest disconnect from reality the church faces.
as the great George Carlin has already pointed out 20 years ago:
"he will send you to this horrible place [...] to burn for all eternity - but he loves you."
it is quite clear that the hell-subject is also the source of many pick-and-choose-descisions made by christians. and when This is questionable then That could be too, right?
The problem: the idea alone is powerful enough to entice fear - even in non-believers.
HaploidCell 10 months ago
zing！
anoldcrow 10 months ago
@anoldcrow
Since you have expressed my sentiments exactly, I'll just say, "Yeah, what anoldcrow says."
billygutter01 10 months ago
Simpson reference if you didn't know.
FlowCell 10 months ago
Buy me BONESTORM or go to Hell!
FlowCell 10 months ago
@FlowCell "BONESTORM"
Sounds kinky.
GreatBigBore 10 months ago 2
@GreatBigBore
watch?v=LSNgkho6LbI
That's what it's from.
FlowCell 10 months ago
@FlowCell simpsons?
Alfalotter 10 months ago
@Alfalotter
Yes.
FlowCell 10 months ago
Hey man, can you clear this up for me?
Have they ever responded to you?
Darw1n1st 10 months ago
Yeah it's better you recycle this questions here because they would never answer a single one.
goxster 10 months ago
I will just stick with Hyper Pascal's Wager. Live life as terribly as I can, then repent and believe in god right at the last moment. All perfectly acceptable by Christian doctrine, the ultimate loophole (minus a sudden death).
Eulich 10 months ago
I is heckler: Mr Bore you are going to HELL and it's really gona hurt, real bad and sting too...they never mention the stinging but it happens! AND your nose will fill up with brimstone and make you sneeze repeatedly and thats really annoying..you'll see!!
seeker447 10 months ago
@seeker447 Yeah! Not to mention it will be REALLY embarrassing when your clothes burn off! Eh! People don't talk about that either. But just you wait. The other hell-dwellers are gonna SO laugh at you! You'll see!
zebruh 10 months ago
@seeker447 Haa! Haaah!
rictusgate 10 months ago
What a laugh.
KiaOra53 10 months ago
No, it's personal liability insurance, surely ? And can be taken out just before death ? And the premiums are not living in reality...too much to pay...
GowanBray 10 months ago
Every single time someone tries to defend theism, they seem to use the same dozen or so arguments that have been shot down countless times before them.
I'd ask why these people don't do their homework beforehand, but then I realized: If they did, they'd stop being theists.
swiggydiggy 10 months ago
@swiggydiggy - I think the worst part are the theists that laugh about you going to hell. Like you being tortured is some sort of amusement for the people accepted into heaven.
Like they'll look down from the clouds to point and laugh at people that are being burned in a lake of fire.
lobothesacred3 10 months ago
@lobothesacred3 That is actually what one of the ancient christian theologians believed was part of being in heaven with god - the ability to take a leisurely stroll through the gardens to the edge of heaven so one can be filled with joy and delight in beholding the divine justice of the unrepentant writhing and gnashing their teeth in pain and anguish in the lake of fire. Ahhhh, to sip coffee with jeebus and listen to god's orchestrated sights and sounds of hell - a psychopath's heaven.
rictusgate 10 months ago
@rictusgate - Your description just makes me think about how hangings are depicted in the movies. Like watching people being hanged to death is some form of big entertainment.
Then, again the Romans used executions as a form of entertainment in the Roman Coliseum. I guess killing and torturing people is a form of entertainment for some people and even more people seem to enjoy watching it. I'm not sure which is worse.
lobothesacred3 10 months ago
@lobothesacred3 I do believe that this need to watch others die or suffer is a form of voyeurism . . . and we humans are replete with many forms of this - virtually every TV program is predicated on voyeurism - and not just the daytime soaps, you have to incl. shows like Star Trek, Dexter, Seinfeld, etc. There's nothing better than to be privy to the lives of others (unbeknowst, of course) - to watch those you care for gain and the hated ones suffer - even if they are fictional. Mirror neurons
rictusgate 10 months ago
@rictusgate - The same would apply to games I guess. Even, though your only killing defenseless pixels. Unless you take that old show on toonami called ReBoot as reflective of the reality inside your computer or console games.
lobothesacred3 10 months ago
@lobothesacred3 The scariest fact remains though - the dogmas of institutionalized religion are used as an unquestionable buffer to sanction the most grotesque of these voyeuristic leanings - to be under the command to only fear the retribution of the divine lawgiver without heed to your fellow human is a deeply monstrous doctrine (this is commanded by jeebus & upheld in the epistles as well as occurring in the OT decalogue and Proverbs).
rictusgate 10 months ago
@rictusgate - Yet, Christians often go on and on about how Jesus is love and got rid of the eye for an eye morality. Of course, they then seem to turn around and support this form of morality.
Though, they seem to remove God from being held accountable for his actions. Since, no one can force him to behave in a moral way. In the Christian mindset it seems that morality has to come down from a hierarchy and be enforced with punishment and threats of eternal torture.
lobothesacred3 10 months ago
@lobothesacred3 "remove God from being held accountable" - and this isn't an exaggeration - WLC himself wrote a trite little essay granting him (god) immunity in regards to the very moral laws he is the author of - he is literally above any moral duties or obligations. I would ask him something - do you feel that politicians are above the laws they make? Or that the police need not follow the laws they enforce? Or that courts/judges can give the laws they interpret "the bird"?
rictusgate 10 months ago
@rictusgate - My best guess to WLC response would be still end up being that there isn't a being powerful enough to force God to follow his own rules. God can break his laws and interpret them how he/she/it wants because he/she/it has the power.
Morality in the Christian perspective seems to boil down to a crude status of might makes right.
lobothesacred3 10 months ago
@lobothesacred3 "Morality in the Christian perspective seems to boil down to a crude status of might makes right." That certainly seems to be the gist of the book of Job!
GoblinXXX 10 months ago
@GoblinXXX - True. ProfMTH has a three part video series on the Book of Job.
lobothesacred3 10 months ago
@lobothesacred3 Saw it- Good stuff! (Haven't seen much from the Prof of late, unfortunately...)
GoblinXXX 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@GoblinXXX - "Good stuff! (Haven't seen much from the Prof of late, unfortunately...)"
True. I guess we can hope that he'll release some new videos sometime in the future.
lobothesacred3 10 months ago
@lobothesacred3 Hey, my internet went down for a whole week one time, I can tell you, I'd have eagerly lined up to see a hanging if it had gone on another week! ;)
GoblinXXX 10 months ago
@lobothesacred3 That there is part of the whole "just world hypothesis" that is so integral to most faiths, that bad things happen to people because they "deserve it" for crimes real of imagined (or thought). Which is close enough to sociopathy that it would score points if it was horseshoes.
swiggydiggy 10 months ago
@swiggydiggy - Sort of like Pat Robertson saying the earthquake that struck Haiti and killed hundreds of people occurred because they had made a deal with Satan?
I don't even understand the whole "just world hypothesis". The Christians are able to escape "just punishment" by begging and pleading with God to spare them. Christianity isn't about justice but about believing in the "right God". Anything else is deserving of eternal punishment and torture.
lobothesacred3 10 months ago
@lobothesacred3 Understand that to christians, the whole "I am fundamentally a bad person and must get down on my knees and orally venerate teh jeezus because he's awesome" essentially gives them a free pass.
And of course, the near-universal logical fallacy where everything one does is wholly justifiable, regardless of how contrary it is to their ostensibly held core values (see the aforementioned bigot throwing accusations of devilry at a country that's EIGHTY FOUR PERCENT CHRISTIAN,)
swiggydiggy 10 months ago
@swiggydiggy - "And of course, the near-universal logical fallacy where everything one does is wholly justifiable, regardless of how contrary it is to their ostensibly held core values (see the aforementioned bigot throwing accusations of devilry at a country that's EIGHTY FOUR PERCENT CHRISTIAN,)"
Well in the eyes of some Christians a few bad apples is enough to anger God to wash away the believers with the nonbelievers. That's why Tornadoes and stuff kill indiscriminately.
lobothesacred3 10 months ago
I have to imagine that the toughest choice these guys make is which side of their mouths to lie out of.
It's sickening that they assume that nobody can keep two concepts in their heads at a time, and that they will therefore never be caught in a contradiction.
DerKreisMeister 10 months ago
The Book of Job sums it up well. Job is singled out among all men for the virtue of fearing God. And this was Old Testament before the idea of Hell was even introduced.
VeritasLiber 10 months ago
Just like when Christians say "fear god" and Muslims say "fear allah".
If you don't fear god/allah you are going to "hell fire".
I don't fear anything especially made up bullshit.
krissyeh 10 months ago
Ouch, that's gonna leave a mark.
mcrd2001 10 months ago
LOL :) Nice one!
firefly4f4 10 months ago
I pray that one of these ignorant fucks asks me whether I believe I'm going to heaven or hell one day.
Then I can ask, "Which hell? The one that everyone seemed to forget to talk about throughout the entirety of the Tanakh? Must not have been that important.
"And which Satan? The one plagiarized from Zoroastrianism's Ahriman when post-exile Jews decided a God that "creates" evil and hardens people's hearts might not be so omnibenevolent?"
How come they never talk to meeeee???
yermomsboxx 10 months ago 15
@yermomsboxx "How come they never talk to meeeee???"
Yeah, I'm always jealous that Coughlan gets so much hate mail. I'm not worthy of serious hecklers, I suppose.
GreatBigBore 10 months ago 2
@GreatBigBore No, your videos are just too serious for apologists to handle. There will be the occasional philosophy troll, I suspect, but simple people can only respond to videos that are simple enough for them to understand. Coughlan is great, but he makes simpler videos. I don't think you're boring at all, but there may be a bit of truth to your sn in that respect.
notthecheatr 10 months ago
@GreatBigBore You're just too nice, and he's, well...a Dick.
yermomsboxx 10 months ago
@GreatBigBore
I suspect that you appeal to a less heckl-ish audience.
DerKreisMeister 10 months ago
@GreatBigBore Aww :(
I can send you some if it would make you feel better about yourself? I am not sure in my ability to lobotomise myself for impersonations sake though.
Dasmaster1 10 months ago
@GreatBigBore You're just more lovable than Coughlan is. (Most people are.) But you can pretend this is hate mail! "I disapprove of you and think you are a bad person and stuff! So there!"
Happy, now?
GoblinXXX 10 months ago
@yermomsboxx I've always wanted to ask Mormon missionaries if they've met Jesus, but I've never had the chance.
"Have you met Jesus?"
"Yes, actually..."
"REALLY? Wow, you don't look that old."
notthecheatr 10 months ago
@yermomsboxx I'm going to have to choose the Tao hell for myself. I have never given it much thought, but for now that one will do.
Is there one with an Animal House style party? "squish" - "Look I'm a zit." LULZ
pumpstations 10 months ago
@yermomsboxx I'm right there with ya on that.
eire138 10 months ago
:D
practicalmagic9 10 months ago
Where WLC (and most apologists, to be frank) is concerned, if they're already making it up from the start - asserting that this god is real - there's nothing to stop them making up more shit without a care in the world. He can say whatever he likes and it's just as valid / invalid as anything Ray Comfort says.
JoelCornah 10 months ago 14
@JoelCornah "He can say whatever he likes and it's just as valid / invalid as anything Ray Comfort says."
That is a very inspired observation!
zebruh 10 months ago
@zebruh Like I said, they're both making it up as they go along, anyway.
JoelCornah 10 months ago
Well I publicly denounced the holy ghost so I am doomed.
no1saphead 10 months ago