trains are yesterdays answer. They are deadly, they cost a fortune in subsidies, and lost viability decades ago. When we go backwards to the train, we may as well go back to the horse. That beside, no one rides trains! Look at Amtrak!
@stetsonwalker Says who? You? Trains will always be here, now and in the future. Whether they ride on rails or on Magnets, trains are the best way to move large ammounts of people fast. That's a fact, think freight railroads.
@DaaYay You are wrong, the only thing a train is good for is to haul vast and incredible amounts of freight. That is the only place for the train in this day and age. The passenger train belongs in the Smithsonian right beside the display of the covered wagon and buffalo gun. It is a has been as far as people transportation!
@stetsonwalker "The passenger train belongs in the Smithsonian right beside the display of the covered wagon and buffalo gun. It is a has been as far as people transportation!"
Tell that to Japan, the European Union, China, Taiwan, Russia, and South Korea.
Then tell it to Japan Railways, Deusche Bahn, EuroStar, TGV,CRH, AVE, and High Speed 1.
Then tell it to Talgo, Siemens, Bombardier, and Alstom.
Then, when they've all finished laughing at you, try to keep telling that to yourself.
@lenojames You are talking of countries that we have nothing in common with, except possibly a few of our major cities such as New York. Most of the areas either are very impoverished nations, large cities or small very populated country/ island nations, or socialist countries. When you bring trains to most of America it is much like buying size 6 shoes and you wear size 9...just does not fit!
And when you compare road and rail subsidies (the ACTUAL SUBSIDIES, not that subsidy per passenger/mile bullcrap ), the amount that roads are subsidized is way higher. Four years of road subsidies would pay for all of America's HSR needs in full.
The reason people don't ride trains is simple: maintenence. Amtrak wasn't constantly maintained, upgraded and expanded over the years like the Interstates.
@lenojames Every 115 minutes, either a person or vehicle is hit by a train.
Nearly half of all collisions at railroad crossings occur where automatic warning devices such as flashing lights or flashing lights with gates are present and are functioning properly.
@lenojames But when you compare the per person rider even the car is safer, of coarse air travel is safest, even when compared to walking. By the way, not ALL autos carry gasoline, many are diesel powered which has the explosive nature of baby oil...
@lenojames and very little effort has been made to update safety measures.
- Local jurisdictions often have no control over the train travel in their area resulting in delays for local emergency response to catastrophic situations in the community. This basically means that the fire trucks will have to wait while a trans continental freight train passes!
- More than 50% of all railroad accidents occur at unprotected crossings and, according to the Federal Railroad Administration
- More than 50% of all railroad accidents occur at unprotected crossings and, according to the Federal Railroad Administration, over 80% of railroad crossings don’t have adequate warning devices.
- Statistics may show that although “vehicle v. train collisions” have decreased in the last few years, “pedestrian v. train collisions” have increased
@stetsonwalker - High Speed Rail does not use, or even need signal crossings. HSR goes either above, or below any road crossings, allowing unobstructed traffic flow on both systems, and separating itself from any pedestrian access. Fire trucks don't have to wait, pedestrians don't get hit, drivers don't need to run crossing gates, and HSR trains pass at full speed.
@lenojames The Eschede train disaster was the world's deadliest high-speed train accident. It occurred on 3 June 1998, near the village of Eschede in the Celle district of Lower Saxony, Germany. The toll of 101 people dead and 88 (estimated) injured surpassed the 1971 Dahlerau train disaster as the deadliest accident of the history of the Federal Republic of Germany. It was caused by a single fatigue crack in one wheel which, when it finally failed, caused the train to derail at a rail switch
Nevermind China Airlines Flight 611's metal fatigue.
I could go on. I use Google too!
You want a good argument for HSR? Try 9/11.
Even if a train is hijacked, it can't be "flown" into another target, causing more damage and killing more people. Trains have both local and remote kill switches that stop them in case of any problems. Also, trains can't fall 6 miles from the sky either.
@lenojames Spoken like a true blue liberal, you found the one train that has only had one death in the world. It is like the public money for abortion, there is always one of you that brings up the 85 year old blind grandmother of 16 that got raped and has no money.....
@lenojames It did not I am just saying that you are defending spending tons of money we do not have for an extremely expensive train few in this country will ride so it will require heavy tax subsidies is true blue liberal...and part of the problem with this country.
@stetsonwalker Every form of transportation in this country is subsidized. I'd bet even Nike and Adidas get some sort of subsidy too. Subsidies are nothing new. What's new is that we're taking a proven form of transportation, that works everywhere else in the world, and making it work for us.
The problem with transportation in this country is that we let rail travel languish while we built freeways to everywhere, which forces you to buy a car, and gas, and oil changes, and tires to get around.
@lenojames The whole point is I am not forced to do this, I prefer it. I do not care to go back and forth with the masses to my cubical to work, and back to my socially engineered dwelling to play my video game. I may want to stop at the market on the way home, I may want to stop at the tavern for a drink, hell I just might want to drive around the countryside after work. This is what Americans do. And we do not want to pay for an over priced train that few will ride!
@stetsonwalker I'm an American too. And I'd love to read the paper and talk on my phone as I go back and forth to work. I'd love to take a RIDE across the countryside. I'd love to shop at the market near the train station. It's sure to be a popular market, being right near the station. And if I drink too much at the tavern near the station, I wouldn't want to be pulled over by the cops.
And the reality is, whether you enjoy car travel or not, you are forced into it. What other option is there?
@lenojames OK I believe you, now here is the deal, I will buy my vehicle, insurance, gas, oil, and maintenance with my own money and not complain or ask you to financially help, if you want to ride the bus/train and enjoy your book, round up more people that enjoy your dream and you guys pay for it. You can even make it your own exclusive little club and not let me in...just do not ask me to pay for your dream!
@stetsonwalker Believe me, if I thought there was a way to do that, I'd be all in favor of it. But as individuals, we can't dictate specifically where our tax money goes. Our system doesn't allow us to say "I want all my taxes to go to defense, and none of it to go to NPR." So instead, we elect people we think will spend the money the way we want. If your representatives aren't spending the money the way you want, your beef is with them, not with other individual taxpayers.
@lenojames Well really my beef is with both people that bring up crazy crap that does not work AND the politicians that buy into the crazy crap...if someone told a leader of a country that Jews were a problem that needed to be dealt with and the leader ordered adult size ovens I have a problem with both people...
@stetsonwalker Yes, Americans love to drive. That is, until gas prices shoot up to almost $5/gallon like they did, and are about to do again with the turmoil in the middle east.
You don't want to pay for an overpriced train that nobody will ride? Pretty soon, we all may be paying for overpriced gas, forcing nobody to drive.
@lenojames You are saying EXACTLY what the flaky libs said when gas went to $1.00 per gallon! "Peoplewill not pay a buck for gas" they were full of crap then and they are full of crap now.
@stetsonwalker You must be referring to a time when the average price of gas was less than a dollar. How long ago was that? Back in the 80's? The 70's? Back during the energy crisis, the OPEC embargo, and the gasoline lines? If that's what you mean by "full of crap", then we better get started with HSR right now!
@lenojames Think about it this way, I remember around 1978, buying bread at the day old bakery for 12 loaves for a buck...how much does day old bread cost now?
@stetsonwalker The rising costs of real estate is another argument fro HSR. Just going by your experience, if we had built HSR in the 80's, it might have cost 1/10th of what it does today, and we'd still be reaping the benefits.
If we wait to do it later, there's no telling how much it will cost. But if we never do it, we will always be dependent on a finite resource, from a turbulent part of the world, for our energy.
@lenojames Nope, our county put all the private buses out of business in the 60s and started Pierce County Transit, supposed to pay for itself in 5 years then turn profit. It is a bigger millstone around the taxpayers neck than ever. And guess what? You still cannot leave the house I bought for $21,000 and walk to a bus stop! (well I guess you could but it might be easier to walk to your destination) We are from the government and we are here to help!
@stetsonwalker I'm pretty sure you heard of the GM Streetcar conspiracy, where public transit systems all over the US were bought up and dismantled by GM in order to sell more autos? What you describe fits right in to that pattern, and right during that timeframe. I can't say for sure, but it sounds like you got screwed out of a perfectly good bus system in order to force you to buy a car. Buses were taken away from you three decades ago, and so now you see driving as the only travel option.
@lenojames I have heard of it before but have found nothing factual...please enlighten me with something verifiable. By the way, the house i bought back then I rent out now, but in the property tax that I pay yearly is money to...yup Pierce County Transit.... and the renter cannot take the bus I have more than paid for!
@lenojames During the Shinkansen's 45-year, nearly 7 billion-passenger history, there have been no passenger fatalities due to derailments or collisions, despite frequent earthquakes and typhoons. Injuries and a single fatality have been caused by doors closing on passengers or their belongings; attendants are employed at platforms to prevent such mishaps. There have, however, been suicides by passengers jumping both from and in front of moving trains.
@lenojames March 30, 2002 – A Spanish high-speed express train on the Valencia–Barcelona route of the Euromed collides head-on with the Tortosa-Barcelona Catalunya express. Between both trains, 600 passengers were on board, five cars of the Euromed are damaged at Torredembarra station, outskirts of Tarragona, Catalunya, Spain. At least four people die and another 88 are injured....I can go on, it happens all the time. Trains are no way to run a transportation in this country.
it finally topped $1.00 in the 80s.
stetsonwalker 1 year ago
trains are yesterdays answer. They are deadly, they cost a fortune in subsidies, and lost viability decades ago. When we go backwards to the train, we may as well go back to the horse. That beside, no one rides trains! Look at Amtrak!
stetsonwalker 1 year ago
@stetsonwalker Says who? You? Trains will always be here, now and in the future. Whether they ride on rails or on Magnets, trains are the best way to move large ammounts of people fast. That's a fact, think freight railroads.
DaaYay 1 year ago
@DaaYay You are wrong, the only thing a train is good for is to haul vast and incredible amounts of freight. That is the only place for the train in this day and age. The passenger train belongs in the Smithsonian right beside the display of the covered wagon and buffalo gun. It is a has been as far as people transportation!
stetsonwalker 1 year ago
@stetsonwalker "The passenger train belongs in the Smithsonian right beside the display of the covered wagon and buffalo gun. It is a has been as far as people transportation!"
Tell that to Japan, the European Union, China, Taiwan, Russia, and South Korea.
Then tell it to Japan Railways, Deusche Bahn, EuroStar, TGV,CRH, AVE, and High Speed 1.
Then tell it to Talgo, Siemens, Bombardier, and Alstom.
Then, when they've all finished laughing at you, try to keep telling that to yourself.
lenojames 1 year ago
@lenojames You are talking of countries that we have nothing in common with, except possibly a few of our major cities such as New York. Most of the areas either are very impoverished nations, large cities or small very populated country/ island nations, or socialist countries. When you bring trains to most of America it is much like buying size 6 shoes and you wear size 9...just does not fit!
stetsonwalker 1 year ago
@stetsonwalker Trains don't kill people. Governors who turn away track upgrade funds do!
And when you compare road and rail subsidies (the ACTUAL SUBSIDIES, not that subsidy per passenger/mile bullcrap ), the amount that roads are subsidized is way higher. Four years of road subsidies would pay for all of America's HSR needs in full.
The reason people don't ride trains is simple: maintenence. Amtrak wasn't constantly maintained, upgraded and expanded over the years like the Interstates.
lenojames 1 year ago
@lenojames Every 115 minutes, either a person or vehicle is hit by a train.
Nearly half of all collisions at railroad crossings occur where automatic warning devices such as flashing lights or flashing lights with gates are present and are functioning properly.
stetsonwalker 1 year ago
@lenojames Here are some train accident statistics:
- Every 90 minutes there is a train collision or derailment.
- A train carrying hazardous material goes off the tracks approximately every 2 weeks in the United States.
- Railroads are essentially self-regulated and do come under the close scrutiny of the federal government.
- Rail companies continue to rely on technology that was developed over 70 years ago
stetsonwalker 1 year ago
@stetsonwalker - There is an automobile accident in America Every Five Seconds!
- All automobiles, even hybrids, carry gasoline, which is well-known to be both toxic and flammable.
- All automobiles on the road vary in their age, maintenance, and states of repair.
- All drivers vary in their attentiveness, reaction times, adherence to the rules of the road, and sobriety.
- Rail companies continue to rely on technology that was developed over 70 years ago...which is why it must be upgraded!
lenojames 1 year ago
@lenojames But when you compare the per person rider even the car is safer, of coarse air travel is safest, even when compared to walking. By the way, not ALL autos carry gasoline, many are diesel powered which has the explosive nature of baby oil...
stetsonwalker 1 year ago
@lenojames and very little effort has been made to update safety measures.
- Local jurisdictions often have no control over the train travel in their area resulting in delays for local emergency response to catastrophic situations in the community. This basically means that the fire trucks will have to wait while a trans continental freight train passes!
- More than 50% of all railroad accidents occur at unprotected crossings and, according to the Federal Railroad Administration
stetsonwalker 1 year ago
@lenojames
- More than 50% of all railroad accidents occur at unprotected crossings and, according to the Federal Railroad Administration, over 80% of railroad crossings don’t have adequate warning devices.
- Statistics may show that although “vehicle v. train collisions” have decreased in the last few years, “pedestrian v. train collisions” have increased
stetsonwalker 1 year ago
@stetsonwalker - High Speed Rail does not use, or even need signal crossings. HSR goes either above, or below any road crossings, allowing unobstructed traffic flow on both systems, and separating itself from any pedestrian access. Fire trucks don't have to wait, pedestrians don't get hit, drivers don't need to run crossing gates, and HSR trains pass at full speed.
lenojames 1 year ago
@lenojames The Eschede train disaster was the world's deadliest high-speed train accident. It occurred on 3 June 1998, near the village of Eschede in the Celle district of Lower Saxony, Germany. The toll of 101 people dead and 88 (estimated) injured surpassed the 1971 Dahlerau train disaster as the deadliest accident of the history of the Federal Republic of Germany. It was caused by a single fatigue crack in one wheel which, when it finally failed, caused the train to derail at a rail switch
stetsonwalker 1 year ago
@stetsonwalker My response to the Eschede disaster?
Hmmm, nevermind Alaska Airlines Flight 261's faulty jackscrew.
Nevermind China Airlines Flight 611's metal fatigue.
I could go on. I use Google too!
You want a good argument for HSR? Try 9/11.
Even if a train is hijacked, it can't be "flown" into another target, causing more damage and killing more people. Trains have both local and remote kill switches that stop them in case of any problems. Also, trains can't fall 6 miles from the sky either.
lenojames 1 year ago
@lenojames My God, there's a website dedicated to airplane disasters...with daily updates! :-(
lenojames 1 year ago
@lenojames Your argument holds no water as the safest trains have a higher death rate than aircraft.
stetsonwalker 1 year ago
@stetsonwalker LOL Google to the rescue!
The safest HSR trains are Japan's Shinkansen.
But I can't compare their death rate to the death rate of their aircraft though.
Why?
Because Japan's Shinkansen has no death rate. After 46 years in operation, no one has ever died as a result of an accident on the Shinkansen.
So you're right. My argument holds no water since I cannot make a comparison. I have to wait for somebody to die first.
lenojames 1 year ago
@lenojames Spoken like a true blue liberal, you found the one train that has only had one death in the world. It is like the public money for abortion, there is always one of you that brings up the 85 year old blind grandmother of 16 that got raped and has no money.....
stetsonwalker 1 year ago
@stetsonwalker ???
How did this turn into an abortion debate?
lenojames 1 year ago
@lenojames It did not I am just saying that you are defending spending tons of money we do not have for an extremely expensive train few in this country will ride so it will require heavy tax subsidies is true blue liberal...and part of the problem with this country.
stetsonwalker 1 year ago
@stetsonwalker Every form of transportation in this country is subsidized. I'd bet even Nike and Adidas get some sort of subsidy too. Subsidies are nothing new. What's new is that we're taking a proven form of transportation, that works everywhere else in the world, and making it work for us.
The problem with transportation in this country is that we let rail travel languish while we built freeways to everywhere, which forces you to buy a car, and gas, and oil changes, and tires to get around.
lenojames 1 year ago
@lenojames The whole point is I am not forced to do this, I prefer it. I do not care to go back and forth with the masses to my cubical to work, and back to my socially engineered dwelling to play my video game. I may want to stop at the market on the way home, I may want to stop at the tavern for a drink, hell I just might want to drive around the countryside after work. This is what Americans do. And we do not want to pay for an over priced train that few will ride!
stetsonwalker 1 year ago
@stetsonwalker I'm an American too. And I'd love to read the paper and talk on my phone as I go back and forth to work. I'd love to take a RIDE across the countryside. I'd love to shop at the market near the train station. It's sure to be a popular market, being right near the station. And if I drink too much at the tavern near the station, I wouldn't want to be pulled over by the cops.
And the reality is, whether you enjoy car travel or not, you are forced into it. What other option is there?
lenojames 1 year ago
@lenojames OK I believe you, now here is the deal, I will buy my vehicle, insurance, gas, oil, and maintenance with my own money and not complain or ask you to financially help, if you want to ride the bus/train and enjoy your book, round up more people that enjoy your dream and you guys pay for it. You can even make it your own exclusive little club and not let me in...just do not ask me to pay for your dream!
stetsonwalker 1 year ago
@stetsonwalker Believe me, if I thought there was a way to do that, I'd be all in favor of it. But as individuals, we can't dictate specifically where our tax money goes. Our system doesn't allow us to say "I want all my taxes to go to defense, and none of it to go to NPR." So instead, we elect people we think will spend the money the way we want. If your representatives aren't spending the money the way you want, your beef is with them, not with other individual taxpayers.
lenojames 1 year ago
@lenojames Well really my beef is with both people that bring up crazy crap that does not work AND the politicians that buy into the crazy crap...if someone told a leader of a country that Jews were a problem that needed to be dealt with and the leader ordered adult size ovens I have a problem with both people...
stetsonwalker 1 year ago
@stetsonwalker Yes, Americans love to drive. That is, until gas prices shoot up to almost $5/gallon like they did, and are about to do again with the turmoil in the middle east.
You don't want to pay for an overpriced train that nobody will ride? Pretty soon, we all may be paying for overpriced gas, forcing nobody to drive.
lenojames 1 year ago
@lenojames You are saying EXACTLY what the flaky libs said when gas went to $1.00 per gallon! "Peoplewill not pay a buck for gas" they were full of crap then and they are full of crap now.
stetsonwalker 1 year ago
@stetsonwalker You must be referring to a time when the average price of gas was less than a dollar. How long ago was that? Back in the 80's? The 70's? Back during the energy crisis, the OPEC embargo, and the gasoline lines? If that's what you mean by "full of crap", then we better get started with HSR right now!
lenojames 1 year ago
@lenojames Think about it this way, I remember around 1978, buying bread at the day old bakery for 12 loaves for a buck...how much does day old bread cost now?
stetsonwalker 1 year ago
Respond to this video... In 1985 I bought a 3 bedroom house for $21,500, it is now taxed (actually under taxed) at $235.000. And gas is what?
stetsonwalker 1 year ago
@stetsonwalker The rising costs of real estate is another argument fro HSR. Just going by your experience, if we had built HSR in the 80's, it might have cost 1/10th of what it does today, and we'd still be reaping the benefits.
If we wait to do it later, there's no telling how much it will cost. But if we never do it, we will always be dependent on a finite resource, from a turbulent part of the world, for our energy.
lenojames 1 year ago
@lenojames Nope, our county put all the private buses out of business in the 60s and started Pierce County Transit, supposed to pay for itself in 5 years then turn profit. It is a bigger millstone around the taxpayers neck than ever. And guess what? You still cannot leave the house I bought for $21,000 and walk to a bus stop! (well I guess you could but it might be easier to walk to your destination) We are from the government and we are here to help!
stetsonwalker 1 year ago
@stetsonwalker I'm pretty sure you heard of the GM Streetcar conspiracy, where public transit systems all over the US were bought up and dismantled by GM in order to sell more autos? What you describe fits right in to that pattern, and right during that timeframe. I can't say for sure, but it sounds like you got screwed out of a perfectly good bus system in order to force you to buy a car. Buses were taken away from you three decades ago, and so now you see driving as the only travel option.
lenojames 1 year ago
@lenojames I have heard of it before but have found nothing factual...please enlighten me with something verifiable. By the way, the house i bought back then I rent out now, but in the property tax that I pay yearly is money to...yup Pierce County Transit.... and the renter cannot take the bus I have more than paid for!
stetsonwalker 1 year ago
@lenojames During the Shinkansen's 45-year, nearly 7 billion-passenger history, there have been no passenger fatalities due to derailments or collisions, despite frequent earthquakes and typhoons. Injuries and a single fatality have been caused by doors closing on passengers or their belongings; attendants are employed at platforms to prevent such mishaps. There have, however, been suicides by passengers jumping both from and in front of moving trains.
stetsonwalker 1 year ago
@lenojames March 30, 2002 – A Spanish high-speed express train on the Valencia–Barcelona route of the Euromed collides head-on with the Tortosa-Barcelona Catalunya express. Between both trains, 600 passengers were on board, five cars of the Euromed are damaged at Torredembarra station, outskirts of Tarragona, Catalunya, Spain. At least four people die and another 88 are injured....I can go on, it happens all the time. Trains are no way to run a transportation in this country.
stetsonwalker 1 year ago