Dungeons & Dragons 4th Edition: Part 1

[DForknargh]

neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeerrd!!!!

[TheGreatDuh]

is it just me or does these guys sound like tools. Its not the game it was.

[weopon77]

i bought 4th edition and tried to like it(i DID pay after all), but i couldnt do it.EVERYTHING is streamlined to the point of no creativity and the concept of an original character is not going to happen.i could point out all of it's flaws, but why bother?i have better games to play than dnd now.still, it is sad tho that my favorite game got completely ruined :(

[Godstud]

If you already have 3.5e and love it then continue to use it. There's nothing that says you have to use it.

[wintermute007]

Exactly! Me and my group still play AD&D 1st edition.

Just what ever suits you.

[SadidaKhan]

1st edition was the shit 2nd edition was the begining of the end. wotc turned it into a micro managing fest. The art work sucked and is a huge money sink. If you dont have a feat to do something in 3-3.5 it was nigh impossible to do.

/rant off

[hunterrose242]

Wow, Digital Offerings! Much like the old website, and the failed attempt at DM-Tools that were worthless!

[4a8p9x]

D&D is antiquated, and I don't see where the 4th edition improves things. It all boils down to the system, and the D&D system is old hat. Character classes, experience levels, hit points, ho hum! Give me FUDGE or GURPS any day. Maybe version 4.5 will be better.

[orendo]

Why are you all bashing WotC? 3rd Edition D&D was the best D&D/AD&D version ever. It was heads and shoulders above the mess that was AD&D 2nd Edition with its zillion rule contradictions which made it nearly impossible to play (e.g. I found out 3 different XP values for Rust Monster in three different rulebooks!). And guess who brought some order to the game? Hint: it wasn't TSR. Yep, it was WotC, with people like Monte Cook. So please, give some respect to the guys at WotC; they deserve it!

[adammerlinsmith]

Very true, but WotC has a talent for coming out with utterly redundant rulebooks.

[MSeigeMalicious]

Couldn't agree more orendo.

[arrugao]

so, did they pay you for the kind words?

[kingthork]

Why would anyone bash WotC? Because they deserve to be bashed for ruining and destroying Dungeon and Dragons just as Paramount should be bashed for allowing Rick Berman to ruin and destroy Star Trek! I have been a DM and a player for 30 years so I know I have some experience here and what I'm talking about concerning the destruction done since WotC has taken over the reins.

[GakkiSai]

They don't deserve crap! This is far too soon after the release of 3.5, far far too soon.

[orendo]

Why are you all bashing WotC? 3rd Edition D&D was the best D&D/AD&D version ever. It was heads and shoulders above the mess that was AD&D 2nd Edition with its zillion rule contradictions which made it nearly impossible to play (e.g. I found out 3 different XP values for Rust Monster in three different rulebooks!). And guess who brought some order to the game? Hint: it wasn't TSR. Yep, it was WotC, with people like Monte Cook. So please, give some respect to the guys at WotC; they deserve it!

[8ulls3y3]

Mmh, not so sure about all that 'digital' stuff. Maybe someone will like it, but I guess I'll remain a pencil and paper kind of gamer. It has been fascinating till now, and so it will be forever for me. It's all in our brains!

[Darkenwrath]

We've just got into DnD but most of my group have already learnt how to play and are moving along at a good rate. After seeing 4th edition our DM told us the game was perfect enough and he wasn't even going to bother trying a 4th edition game. essentially if you don't like the look of 4th edition you don't have to play it.

[Paboozala]

I really hope it's worth getting the new core rule books. They are so friggin' expensive...

[lonestarinfinate]

man could they talk any slower

[Kackex]

Sigh... i hope its customizable and programable...

[wildchik20]

In other words, how hard is it to come up with something that is stable and works, doesn't need rules revisions except for possible clarifications?

[wildchik20]

voodoomanboy said "Shit needs to move forward, it can't stand still forever." regarding the new system.

My point is this...How many times do you revise the rules of chess until it becomes checkers?

[FantasyMaster6]

I am not spending $30.00 for some manual of a game that only a couple thousand people play.

[LiSyaoran3063]

I still play 1st edition because 2nd and 3rd fucken suck. Hope 4th doesn't suck too :D

[simonyoxall]

Great another set of books to buy - so much for 3.5 sticking around for a while.

[GravisWarhammer]

It basically seems like tweaks to the existing versions, while reducing the ability to use your own variants. Half the fun of the older systems was looking at what it said, interpreting it to fit the world, and then using it. Trying to redesign the blocks will just take that out of it.

[youfreako]

Try going from D&D basic to AD&D 1stEd to 2ndEd to 3rdEd

[getoffen]

I like the Advanced D&D system better, i played it in high school. After seeing 3rd edition there is not much space for actuall "storytelling". The way they have it done now they give you nothing much to the imagination.

[thethousandhorse]

Oh sure. Let's spend more money. Of course I promise I won't just download the new books from a filesharing site or copy the access numbers from the books when I visit the nearest bookstore. Greed has warped the minds of WotC.

[SoulCollectorInEbony]

Ill stick with 3rd.

[warlordvir]

It sounds great, but I have 3rd Edition and that was not cheap to begin. So now there a 4th edition, I hope that I upgrade by trading 3rd for 4th. I hope the new system has e-tool function.

[Naamah100]

This is sooooo lame. 2nd edition is the best!And the most fun to play!

[SBaby]

1st and 2nd are definitely the most hardcore out of the bunch. If you want proof, just look at how many books and manuals there are for just one of those two and compare it to 3rd. More than twice as many.

[horndogrob]

uuuhhhh, Thac0 SUCKED! 3rd was way rad. 2nd was fun. really. but Thaco made me cry.

[MrGatsuga]

3rd had many rules and lots of possible characters, but too many prestige classes, and we were all constantly looking through our huge books involving complex rules.

[Rogue0572]

I agree. It was easy to play because you werent held down with so many rules. 3rd edition played more like a video game... and now 4th is one.

[ebonaedan]

Well I know I'm sticking with 3.5

What was wrong with it anyway it was the most immersive system they could have come out with. The rules may have seemed pedantic at first but so realistic.

No way I'm paying out for more books when I'm just gonna have to buy more ina couple of years when they upgrade it to 4.5!!

[boilerplate]

ebonaedan is right. Well spoken, friend.

I'm not paying for squat. I still have first and 2nd (advanced) edition books. I'm out.

[onihachi]

This totally sucks... I still play 2nd.. the system has a lot of flaws but, I miss whe RPGs were not massive game companies bussiness, when they had some secrecy, mystic air around... those were ROLE-playing games. Please, at least dont call the Role-Playing Games, this is anything but that. In a real RPG you dont even need rules to play, I dont need tech support to play!!! I dont need a pc! this about storytelling--- that seems to be the least important item for these guys.

[oohgodno]

WOW OMG i was soo pissed at the teaser trailer which made it seem dnd was going to be on a computer more and am reliefed and exicited now about the relise of 4th ed and hope that they trim the classes down more because there are more classes than there are of base racces

[LcEtrigan72]

Tome of Battle was, possibly, the stupidest book released in 3.5 -- a ridiculous attempt to turn D&D into some anime whack-job. The fact that they're pushing "New power sources" like you've seen in Tome of Battle makes me incredibly concerned.

[GeorgeTheGuitarist]

sounds c000l

[spasibaspasibavic]

I am confident they design new versions for the sake of the game and not for money... I am also sure manuals will be provided free to all gamers at no expense..

[nickyhokie]

This dosen't sound good as good for the game as it does for w.o.t.c. pocketbook. Remember you don't need their books to run your game.

[numitorr]

I have no intent to buy 4th ed, dont need another set of dummed down rules, which require constant changes, al la unearthed arcana, to make it even playable.

I hope the kids enjoy this new game, cause us old timers will stick with 3rd or 2nd.

[scaronmybum]

WOT theres no need for this wot happens to all the suppliment books.

[brand666]

The improvements 3rd/3.5th editions made over their predecessors were notable... I expect the same to happen with 4th edition.

[Ptrrrrrrrr]

Finally. Thank you. I mean, new spell system and I could mouth along with Tome of Battle, I knew something had to make fighters more efficient. Technoligy can make the whole experience easier. I'm looking forward to 4.0.

[nyneave]

WOTC is kind of stupid. Every time they pull a stunt like this, they build up ill-will from their customers. Releasing new editions every 4 years is way too often.

[anubus55555]

your bang on there nyneave, it'll soon be every 3 years.... then 2...

[ibeatcodin1day]

im going to really miss 3.5

raja stittle the 4th level ranger may soon parish

[ibeatcodin1day]

im going to miss 3.5 edition

[cervie77]

The ugly trolls of marketing open their voracious maws once more, do we feed them our torch bearers?

[wowtcg]

Cool

[cattundam]

there are games more pesonalizable, realistic, point based... much easier, u get what u want nor some class already done... d&d it is ONLY MORE FAMOUS...

wizard can do all thy promotion campaign they want... but u choose... change game...

[Janissary]

Which one is your fav. ?

[YellowArcher]

Seriously, this makes me want to cry.

[Lorenelif]

bring back 1st Edition..I stopped buying 3rd ed stuff after Sword and Fist et al. Won't be buying any 4rth ed stuff at all

[voodoomanboy]

Then keep playing your precious 1E and STFU about new editions already. Really fucking tired of all the griping/moaning/pissing that all the lazy ass gamers do when a new edition is announced. Shit needs to move forward, it can't stand still forever.

[ilnaras]

Pare down the skills system and I'll be happy. That's the only thing that's really broken.

[spindlebrooche]

God I miss TSR...WotC should have stuck with card games.....

[voodoomanboy]

GET OVER IT....gawd all you fucking cry-babies need to just suck up the fact that TSR is dead, WoTC has D&D, and play the damn game they way you like it.

[Amyante]

This soulless presentation was brought to you by Cyric & Bane Productions...

ANYWAY...

Please don't tell me they'll be handing out Psionics and Warlock-type Infusions in 4.0...

[Dusty1141]

I roll for an Interest Check. -3 modifier.

[MoonlightWolf714]

Am I the only one who thinks this looks cool? o.o; I've been playing for about five or six years now, and I use 3rd edition (not 3.5) though I've had some experience with second as well. Fourth looks like they really tried to make everything easier, including a bunch of computer stuff to make things go faster. Wouldn't it be better if combat didn't take hours to complete? I dunno about you guys, but it can get boring after a while...

[oohgodno]

DnD wasnt slow or hard its easy to grasp ounce you get started atleast it was for me anyways combat was boring because i played with inexperienced morons who took 5mins to do something i did it 5secs and im only 14

[bifgis]

Yeah, my party takes FOREVER to take their turns!!!

[whiskydrinka]

WHO GIVES A #$%^ ABOUT THIS CRAP D&D

bring out some frps games somethin better than Bf2 !

[CainchiId]

Hopefully they didn't follow all the new bs from various games that have come out and actually put some original thought into this new version.

[Edward2000]

Oh, so this is how Wizards "reward" their players? Why don't they just shot me in my stomach, take my money and run away instead of making this crap?

[captaincracklins]

2nd edition was lame. 3rd edition is garbage. D20 is completely masturbatory. And this latest incarnation looks no better. It's this simple: 1st edition was written for people who grew up reading books; 3rd edition and this latest version are for people who grew up playing video games.

[voodoomanboy]

So keep playing your precious 1E and STFU.

[Hobgoblyn]

So.... are they going to make it less elf-centric and make goblins, half-orcs, hobgoblins and orcs actually usefully playable?

Because that's what pissed me off and drove me away.

[H4YVV00D]

"We're makin it easier to DM"? WTF? Unless you scrap all the repetitive encounter variables(ie fast healing, DR, etc) running a high level encounter won't get any easier. And now it goes to 30 levels. Another 5 years and 5.0 will take it to 40 levels. It's still gonna need to be run by a computer, because humans can not match the speed and accuracy of doing so much repetitive math.

[zumodeuva]

>:(

[cattundam]

SOO? what's new?? what's the big deal? levels and classes are still there...start to do something point based levelless and classless...possibly with some realistic things too...ah...AND I HATE D20 SYS...

[sofstrad]

You can use the 4th edition stuffs for the background, but using 1st edition system. :-D

[jhilahd]

So did they read the scripts at gun point?

[Kynblackvein]

Ugh. I mean they were throwing out content for 3E like it was going out of style, but so soon? Me and my GF have more than 40 3E books, and that's not counting my near-complete 3E Dragon mag collection. It's all gonna be obsolete...

I...really don't think they can make it as worth it as they did with the 2E-3E switch. 3E made things logical, high numbers were good, feats, skills, etc.

30 levels? Tome of Battle stuff for everyone? Online Content? Predefined roles? If it's not broken...

[hdsfhdfhd]

i agree with Yaerav

4.0 looks like a "just give us our money" version

[sofstrad]

Like the 2nd, the 3.0 and the 3.5 Editions were in their era.

That's why I stopped to buy D&D stuffs after completing my 1st edition collection in the 80's. ;-)

[Augur]

1st ed. AD&D is still the best. Not sure why they keep making it easier and easier and easier with every passing year. EXP is too easy to get, levels have low caps, spells are everywhere, classes are over powered... I mean, who ever heard of a group of level 4's beating a dragon? No thanks. Sticking with 1st Ed. AD&D, yet again.

[mikedubya]

I'm still running 2nd Edition with my group... we all have the books we need and steal stuff from newer books as I see fit. House Rules FTW.

[elveskickass]

the gallery applaudes (and by gallery, I mean my multiple personalities).

[ghosthunter007]

Hmm 3.5 seems pretty stable, Sad to say it but this is all about money. I think they need to fine tune the modules enstead of making new books. watch and mark my words, 4th edition comes out everyone gets the books and then they announce 4.5 like they did with 3.0 to 3.5

[masterjx]

nerds

[RealNemo235]

Just reprint Gamma World 4th edition.

[rumrogerz]

so i spent hundreds of dollars on all my awesome 3.5 books for nothing?

well screw this. I'm not going to jump start another blasted edition to fuel their pockets

[Chase9824]

hey everyone! look! world of warcraft and dnd joined forces...

I just bought 3.5 edition few months ago... just now got into DnD, im only 16 but I think i will quit now... This is NOT what I wanted in a "tabletop rpg"

I started playing DnD to get AWAY from this technology crap... But obviously no company can stay true to anything anymore...

This is not appealing to me at all

[elveskickass]

Don't get down hearted. There is enough material that you don't need the 4th edition. I know people who still play 1st ed D&D. There are companies that sell old products that will last you for years. Don't quit. You're generation needs to carry the torch or continual lighted coin :)

[IRockFilms]

I like the idea. I think there have been waaayyy too many additions to the game over the years.

[CodyRicheson]

Aids.

[99BlackBirdTA]

Sounds like WotC will screw up 4e just as bad as the did 3e, but I would expect no less from WotC.

[FeeneyMartini]

sounds good, but defined roles scare me.

[yaerav]

This actually all sounds decidedly horrible... lots and lots nobody needs or wants, and they present it like it is a godsend :-/

[oltek]

Laughable; first it was "Dungeons & Dragons", then "3.5", now, "4th edition"; I guess WotC is repeating history by falling into the same cracks that TSR did...I feel really sorry for you young people today. In 5 more years, the game will be gone, a victim of a long history of mismanagement. But, we'll all laugh, break out our 25+ year old manuals, & still play, like we've always done...

[ray53208]

"its the d&d we are playing around the office".. because if we dont we will be fired.

[babydollgoddess]

KILL ME!! (But I can SO say I told you so... like, three years ago! ;) )

[mapc777]

Removing the things that grind my game to a halt? You mean, combat?

[Dallaria]

The $10 buck subscription fee, it's going to be for the online content including Insider which is the replacement for the "Dungeon" and the "Dragon" magazine that ended in Sept. 2007 as magazines so a lot of the D&D community will likely be subscribing for that alone anyways right? I know I am.

[Dallaria]

From what I have heard and understand, just because the game's going to have tech components to it, doesn't meant you have to utilize it, it's still a tabletop game, just allowing people to play online if they want.

[Swordlight111]

I am happy with 3.5, but will look forward to seeing the changes. The online will be a nice supplement... but will never replace the home table/convention gaming.

[AilenStormfist]

Shame they decided to do this. I was fine buying more 3.5 stuff. But not willing to go out and repurchase all this again.

The online stuff may be really neat coming from someone with gamers all over the area. We have been looking for this (using web cams). No subscription.

All in all I think I will stay with 3.5. Maybe one of the other gaming groups will be my next systems. After all if I am going to have to repurchase all these books. Might as well look at other systems as well. :)

[corronchilejano]

I'll have to pay $10 a month to play online?

[supersdep15]

wow i just firgured at the rules

[lawn0gnome]

come on!!! dont make it digital...i liked it because it dident require technology just grab my dice and my binder and go....

[scullyy]

"TECHNOLOGY!" lol

[RedKnight79]

GamerZer0.....GET THE WEBSITE BACK UP.....WOTC is circling the drain when it comes to Customer Support and Loyalty

[Stray7]

The end is nigh! The sky is falling! Repent, sinners! Run for your lives!

[HoneyBBare]

The second part is of more interest, by thetime 4th Ed is released, it might be really good...guess we will see

[tracksxl]

Now, that was unexpected... But it IS much less exiting than i thought it would be....

[AlokikolA]

I just got the 3.5 core books too...

[tarhun]

after 5 years...?

[InvertedKira]

I got them 3 months ago aswell.

[AlokikolA]

Hey, I'm only 14 ;)

[fake182a]

Not every one has played DnD for several years. believe it or not, new players to exist...

[LordTurnip3]

Then do what anyone with any sense will do, and stick with 3.5

[lmb030]

Me too :)

[oxyribose]

So did I.