Is Obama a conservative or a progressive realist?

[jor81786]

there is a HUGE difference between corporate liberal and populist liberal. Where they differ.....the pop libs voted against the wall street bailout, they voted against Iraq from day 1 and will vote against Afghanistan, they will vote for a federal legalization of gay marriage, they want to take religion out of government, and so on. The corporate "liberals" latch on to facets of these ideas that they can hold onto and still win and make money for them and their friends.

[JRBeaman]

Obama knew what to say to become pres.

Now that he won that, he has no clue how to do the job he was elected to do, so we are all fucked.

[MustacheVerra]

It would be interesting to hear Alterman point of view about the pro-Israeli hard line Obama has appointed. And see if thats change he can believe in.

[billionaireby16]

I'm so damn sick of saying, "We're pure and they Won."

Thank YOU!!!!!

Obama 08 BABY!!!

[MustacheVerra]

I like Alterman but i disgree with what he says.

When you start saying stuff like ''politic is the art of the possible, or the art of compromise'' you end up being manipulated by interest group(an elite) and the little people get screwed-the elite gets what they want and it's business as usual.

We need politicians who speak the truth like Ron Paul, Gravel and Nader..

[SweatLaserXP]

You should read Alterman's book "Why We're LIberals", where he shows how lack of compromise is partly what destroyed liberalism in the 1960s and 70s.

[MustacheVerra]

Republicans, Liberals... it's all the same - don't you get it? this fake left vs right paradym is a distraction for is really going on. A small elite is running the show and theres nothing either party can do about it.

[GlobalHuntMan]

Obama is not progressive. He voted to fund the war twice while in the US Senate. He voted against caps on interest rates for credit cards. He blames black inequality on a lack of personal responsibility in the black community, rather than drawing attention to institutionalized racism. He rewrote a nuclear regulation bill for his contributor Exelon. Worst of all, his Iraq plan, according to journalist Jeremy Scahill, would require an indefinite occupation of 20,000-60,000.

[quest8899]

lol nice comedy

[jtmadman812]

when is the civil war im ready

[abram730]

The idea is that you can work with a conservative grounded in morality. This is not to be confused with those that are immoral and just talk about morality to deflect attention from their complete lack of it. Let us reach out to moral republicans that want America to shine bright and not fall under the shadow of tyranny from within. Efficiency in government should be a good concept to to reach out to fiscal conservatives.

[starkman79]

This guy is not with the reality of most of the public who is sick of people in political office with no real values, who just say what people want to hear. When will people finally vote for the third candidates?

[Ve3tah417]

Alterman doesn't get it.

[AverageVoter]

Obama told AIPAC that Jerusalem should be the undivided capital of Israel. He held that position for all of one day, which was how long it took for the Palestinian Authority to complain.  After they did, Obama changed his mind and issued a statement correcting his prior position. Obama is a far left liberal whose answer to everything is either the creation of a new government program or the expansion of an existing one.

[abarzilai664]

That's the dilema of the Left, they don't like the recent stands of Obama but what alternative do they have, they can't rush to Nader who give the election to McCain neithier can they call him to account to be unorthodox lest he lose a key group. The only thing they can do is keep queit, sure Obama not "pure" but he's the closest thing they have to power and if they blow it then they will spend 4 more years in the wilderness.

[vryheid88]

Pepe is right, Obama has flip-flopped over so many issues, he is in a race with McCain to see who can flip-flop the most.

Ron Paul is the pure example they should be talking about, also in his foreign policy (that people like Nader and Nowak praised a lot).

[jkerouac02]

Alterman is right. You have to win before you can change anything. And to win you have to play by the rules to some extent.

[iluminatr462]

alterman needs to shut up all ready. we all ready have a democratically controlled congress and what the fuck has that accomplished? he says we should compromise, but why should we? we don't get any comprise from the other side. his idea of compromise is to accept the slightly less conservative candidate. that's not compromise, that's capitulation.

[sergeantnorider]

Obama is just being smart.What good would have done him to take a stand on the gun ban decision?It was already decided.Opposing simply for the sake of ideological purity at the cost of losing western states would have been a hopelessly naive and weak move.The nation is still in the grips of fear harvested by Rove and Obama has to adapt to that climate.He is a diff type of politician but we arent yet a diff electorate.Alterman is right, climb off your cloud and join the rest of us on planet earth

[iluminatr462]

honestly i'm not even interested in that issue. what concerns me is his voting record at large. alterman claims obama is progressive realist. but to me he's a conservative democrat realist. i don't think obama is hiding his liberal penchant. i believe he pretended to be more liberal than he is in order to secure the domocratic nomination. and by the way obamaland is not planet earth. and i ain't gonna join you there, so fuck off.

[sergeantnorider]

As is the case with most progressives, you are too young and immature to understand that the world is imperfect and so is everyone in it. Voting for McCain and war in Iran because Obama is not "liberal" enough according to your indefinite metric is beyond illogical. The lack of pragmatism among progressives has always been our downfall and your silly ass is a prime example. When they start bringing in the dead from Iran, just tell the parents that you couldnt live with the public finance shift.

[iluminatr462]

Hey sergeant, obama is every bit a militaristic as mccain and you're kidding yourself if you don't believe it. i don't understand that the world is imperfect? i'm illogical? how about make an actual argument for obama instead of judging my character? who i am and how immature i am doesn't mean shit. show me something that proves obama will not attack iran. he is the asshole, after all, who says he admires george h. w's foreign policy.

[iluminatr462]

obama is not liberal at all. and i didn't make up my own scale, you douche bag. go to a web site called polical compass. it shows where all the candidates land. obama lands on the authoritarian side not the liberal side. not to mention he moves further away from liberal every day. you can believe that deep down obama is a progressive and that he will save america. but i don't share your religion and i don't pretend to be a mind reader. i'll leave that to you "logical pragmatists."

[enomarekim]

I have been saying this all along. Obama is not a peace candidate. he might think Iraq was a mistake, but he would believe the Iran propaganda and invade that country just as fast as McCain would. Obama supporters say they want change, and then defend his centrist movements for more votes by saying that all politicians do it. How is this changing the political process?  Ron Paul is my hero and he has changed the political process for millions of supporters by offering alternate choices.

[Irtidad]

MLK was outside the consensus of acceptable opinion. So was Nelson Mandela, and just about every other important figure of social change in recent history. Obama is selling his soul to get elected, and he's by no means "broadly progressive." Go read the latest article by Paul Street on ZNet, called "Shift to the Center."

[flyingbird0214]

Who would have thought that The Real News crew would turn against Obama? During the primaries they vilified Hillary Clinton viciously. Not a day after Obama got the majority of votes, they began a slandering campaign comparable to the worst Republican tactics. Are they a front for some Rove's operation? I'm not even an Obama supporter, but find the whole thing smelly like a rotten fish.

[2020peter]

slander? please give a single example. they have gone after McCain as well . . isn't that there job to hold the candidates, all of them, accountable?

[flyingbird0214]

What so offensive about my comment? Obama isn't the darling of the left, not even the secularist, anymore. The RealNews is making sure we all know it.

[SLAVEforLISA]

Pepe was right to challenge him about what is truly in Obama's heart. Obama will take the easy road to nowhere unless he is pressured by progressives. GO PEPE!!!!!

[BuelahMan]

I'm surely no reTHUGlican and I don't know what he truly believes because he lies to us. It is the fucking lying, just like his soon-to-be predecessor, that says he is incapable of leading this country in any good direction.

His lies aren't good, for goodness sake.

I don't know what he believes and I could care less what color he is. Not everyone is racist. Some of us prefer truth and honor to his type of bullshit.

Go figure.

[YukonBloamie]

wtf? Escobar takes Obama on one issue and calls him a conservative? Alterman nailed it when he hit on "compromise" and "speaking within a consensus", Obama is trying to get elected by telling people what they want to hear. And that's exactly what the Republicans are exploiting. When you hear "we don't know what he actually believes", that's a code for "he's dangerous scary black man". This campaign will be fought on so many levels it's gonna get very ugly by the end.

[unab84]

I think "its just stupid" to overreact with everything the politicians say in an electoral campaing...

[unab84]

Everything that the politicians say right now is to be elected. You have to look at what they said before being in the race to know what they will do when they get elected...

[BuelahMan]

I see, it is up to the electorate to figure out which face is the lying face.

Sorry, that is total bullshit.

[Navywxman]

Escobar is right, Obama is a conservative and there will be no real change. Alterman is an idiot. Like George Carlin said, "This country is finished."

[greg2009]

Obama has to compromise like other politicians. McCain has to, but Obama has to do it 10 times more because this country is dominated by the white anglo-saxon middle class protestant culture. Liberalism is what Obama has to run away from because liberal is bad word now. Conservative sounds better to most white americans dem/rep/inde/or neither. For a majority of whites, liberal is code word for black, feminist, gay, poor, lazy, immigrant, soft on crime, unpatriotic, working class, and godless

[ichormosquito]

Yes.

[blahblah7949]

one of the most reasonable debate ive heard in a long time

[clearcutting]

What has Obama done?

Well he is a 33 degree Jewish Mason. He has pledged his soul to Satan. He has bloodline relationships.

Seems like a normal presidental candidate to me. He supports Israel, Judaism and the NWO(if you know what it is about).

Why are you guys arguing over irrelevancies? You should know about this stuff already.

Check out my video on the NWO and what's behind it.

[prisha91755]

We have a fantasy that Obama will take the country in another direction. We hope he will will bring change. We may be wrong but at least there is the knowledge that it must change.

[gravelin08]

You are wrong and there will be no change with Obama so what advantage is your knowledge if you don't apply it? No advantage. He is a corrupt politician who bends with the wind. He has said so many contradictory things and these guys both agree and I agree that no one really knows where Obama really stands. THAT'S TERRIBLE...TERRIBLE...TERRIBLE­. McCain is no better but at least he lets you know how evil he is...So now you have evil and evil and you know things must change. Brilliant...

[BuelahMan]

Bullshit. Everyone knows "it must change".

Electing a reTHUG-light won't get that change that everyone knows is needed.

wtf is wrong with you people?

Its not time to realize we need change.

WE NEED CHANGE NOW, DAMMIT.

[richidpraah]

chill the thug out man, you're making intellectuals sound all schizo and self selfing. politics have been staged since the roman empire. any presidential candidate is HARDLY the solution the world needs. and are U being your own change, as you should, instead of just plugging the millenia old messianic salvation seat warmer back into the wall of plato's cave? ill-tempered indignation at the mundane is tasteless and unenlightened in the end, anyway.

[BuelahMan]

Inactivity will be our doom. Complacency sucks.

[JCJ77]

What has Obama done ever?

[PersonalJesus348]

"power gotta have the power... that's what they say when they'll do anything to win" - Mike Gravel

[likes2p]

Alterman is absolutely correct, and yet absolutely wrong. I'm sick of skillful politicians who lie to get elected and then fuck up the world. I do not care that politicians lie. I care when they fuck things up for the rest of us. obama has done nothing about FISA despite his lies to the contrary. Obama is fucking things up for the rest of us.

[kellog1]

I agree w/ Alterman...if you want to get power then you have to fool around w/ the people.

[gravelin08]

That is corrupted power telling you that you have to be corrupt to win. That's what's been happening for too long. To fight corruption, you need the truth. Why didn't y'all support the politicians who were giving that to you? Because it took time and effort and an interest in what's going on beside your own petty lives and some of your pocket change. Such a small price to pay for something that would have been so much better than what is to come...

[MementoExpose]

Obama's views change more than the weather does

[gravelin08]

Oops. I meant to mark your comment with a plus. Yes, he is like a weather vane blowing with the wind this way and that to get as many voters as possible. Closer to the election, he will start sounding more like McCain than now even and McCain will start sounding like Obama (whatever that is - no one really knows..).

[MementoExpose]

Obama is just a tool.

[BuelahMan]

What a bunch of bullshit, Eric. The only compromise is listening to Mr Obama speak from two totally different sides of his ass... coinciding with his Primary win.

Here is the problem, he has moved very close to McCain in several ways, when just a month ago he was showing how far away he was from him.

You call this political expediency, I suppose. I call it shitting on your date.

I don't want a shift-changing liar again, seen too many. Dems are great at that.

Time for real change.

Vote Nader

[gravelin08]

Whoever I am voting for, it ain't no damn Republican or Democrat. The parties that got us into and/or allowed this mess want me to vote for one of their BSing candidates again. No thanks. I must have some brain cells left. I do wish more people did...they're voting for the same race horses brought to them by the corporations, military and media. Oh, yes, that want to vote for a candidate that wins and then THEY lose. This is a RICH joke on y'all. They must just laugh and laugh...at you.

[dstevens101]

"Obama doesn't hold a candle to Nader."

What good does a sideline progressive do for America? He got my vote, and the votes of many other Californians, but received credit for few.

With the votes seeming to have a life all unto themselves, what's the point of giving plausibility to a GOP win by being, yet again, the third party spoiler?

I've now disassociated with Nader and do not even received his EMAILS; he received my first political contribution, and then THIS stupidity!?!

[burningice17]

Blame the 18th century antiquated plurality voting system, not the candidates for running. Ever hear Obama talk about instant runoff voting (the antidote to the spoiler effect) on the campaign trail?

What your vote and the vote of others did was state to the mainstream parties was that they could not take your vote for granted, but rather earn it through addressing relevant issues.

If we can't vote for our candidate now, when do we get to vote for our candidate? What is our breaking point?

[gravelin08]

Do you know about the National Initiative for Democracy? It will allow us ordinary folks to finally vote on the issues. Plus it will give us power to make and repeal laws just like Congress does. How long do you think it will take us to get real campaign finance laws changed and get our candidates into office after that? Not too long...

[WyattHalliwell2009]

The problem I have with the National Initiative is regular people don't know anything about half the thing that goes on in Congress. We don't know how much money the military budget should be, or NASA funding, or stuff about medicine and FDA and other stuff. Sure we as a people might be able to vote on I don't know gay marriage but what about the appropriate taxation rate, I mean I don't know about that

[parispeter2]

Progressive realist. Alterman is spot on, and Escobar, as usual, on another planet.

[thisismyfunnyname]

War is great because few people are willing to oppose it.

[burningice17]

Obama doesn't hold a candle to Nader.

[Dedhedted71]

I must have changed the spelling on that 5 times! I did'nt feel like looking it up. Lennon, Lennin, or whatever, you know who I mean. That sneaky bastard who screwed Russia over. LOL!! I prefer to spell it- D I C K H E A D.

[rockerpro]

despite the poor ratings it was a great conversation

[voyzovrezon]

So that's why Dennis Kucinich will never be president. He's progressive and tells it like it is. I supported his candidacy because that's what I wanted in a candidate. Now I'm forced to settle on one.

[gravelin08]

Look around and be sure to cast your vote for someone other than a Democrat or a Republican. If two people vote for McCain or Obama and one person votes for the other, the election is decided. Your vote is really needed elsewhere.

[garylandy]

obama is a progressive lier! look when he talks, he talks so slow in order not to make a mistake and tell the truth.

[oolong2]

He's right... The GOP has used a lot of pandering to get into power. It's what politicians do. Right now it's all just talk, NOT policy, and talk is cheap. Can the democrats afford to take the high road and allow the criminal elements in the government to walk all over them?

Unfortunately it's how the world works today. You have to move to the center to move the center.

However we don't have to like it :-)

And hope that Obama's not evil...

[lastnymleft]

"And hope that Obama's not evil..."

'Hope that we're not evil' is probably not the campaign slogan that they were hoping for, but you're right in that that is what we are getting. This is bullshit. He's running for the role of most powerful man in the world, yet no-one really knows what he believes in. All he does is say whatever is expedient to get elected, and smile a lot whilst talking smoothly. A real lucky dip. Now THAT'S a scary scenario. If ever there was a puppet in the making, he is it

[NatureLegalized]

A load of rubbish.

[Dedhedted71]

The Lenninist philosophy is very much the same as Obama's. Say whatever you must, to whoever you must in order to come to power. After you have retained power, then you can betray the people. Obama is a Lenninist. Or at least he is acting like one.

[GordonWalton]

He's got a better facade, but he's just another bought and sold politician.

[sickliberal]

why is that guy accepting AIPAC as a major political player would be my question. that way the 'possible' becomes quite constrained already. who determines what is possible and what isn't?

[MoralObserver]

He's a CFR member. Enough said.

[lastnymleft]

RIGHT! When you're a CFR member with a CFR DIRECTOR wife surrounding yourself by CFR advisers, and CFR moneymen, it's a pretty fair bet you're going to be running a standard CFR agenda. Just like McCain.

This is bullshit. This election's a farce.

[westphalianprinz]

He's a centrist.

The last "progressive realist" was someone no one likes.