(Part 1): When speaking of the resurrection, Craig always operates under the assumption that the accounts in the Gospel come from historical, reliable eyewitness sources. He invariably ignores issues of authorship, dates of composition, and the lack of corroborating primary sources for both the existence of Jesus and the resurrection.
@alexhatesmil (Part 2): Ray Bradley made a wonderful point during his debate with Craig, one that Craig largely ignored. If we are to believe that hell exists as an emotional rather than a physical torment (as Craig posits), in other words, that the Pit of Fire is purely metaphorical, we are on quite a slippery slope. If not everything in the Bible is to be taken literally, how do we decide what is historical and what is figurative? If hell is a metaphor, why not the resurrection?
my eye witness account states that this guy was caught in an orgy with the flying spaghetti monster. THE LORDS WORK IS DONE!
the scriptures also tells that lord Voldemort shall rise again, that Luke skywalker was the son of our farther almighty Darth Vader, and that the force was indeed strong with both of them.
and so it was written and so it is true because an eye witness saw it.
I'm speechless, that was without a doubt one of the most.. Just kill me, I don't want to live any more. You've fucking done it Craig, you've killed me with your stupidity, stupid shit wanker.
@6gunwalker that in no way answered the question. I want to why, god had the caananites destroyed, but isnt having a similar culture (say muslims) destroyed! You cant answer it, hey you cant answer it.
@atheistcommonsense youre asking me a seperate question out of the true context... the caananites were a people who were in the promised land which God promised Israel in Egypt... the leaders of Israel commanded by Joshua had to apply the "rules of engagement" to the caananites before any war was spoken off.... now youre asking me to answer why did Israel defeat the caananites and not the muslims who came thousands of years later and from a different nation???? impossible??
@6gunwalker that's not what i asked you, i asked you one simple question, in response to free-will. You stated, evil was the price we pay for free will. I say God had no problem back then intervening, but he/she/it is impotent today to intervene. I asked why doesn't he/she/it give the command today, like he/she/it commanded the leaders of israel back then . Clearly you cant answer, that's o.k. No one I have asked seems to be able to. The Caananites werent entitled to the same free will we have
@atheistcommonsense ive answered your question. ill repeat it in another way.. the caananites were a people OCCUPYING the "promised land" during the period of the HUGE EXODUS of Israel from Egypt, GOD was with ISRAEL during that time... Islam came into existence 600 years AD... when the Israelites rejected "THE MESSIAH" = Jesus, they REJECTED GOD, thats why Jesus said, Israel because you rejected the messiah your enemies will surround you.. look at the middle east
@6gunwalker Christ or GOD HERE WITH US ON EARTH, is the FREE OFFER OF GOD TO ALL MANKIND TO ACCEPT HIM, because its not about distroying muslims or any other people who dont believe in the DIVINITY of Christ HERE ON EARTH its about WHAT HE WILL DO ON THE JUDGEMENT DAY...... your asking a classic atheist question to try and keep people away from Gods free invitation... but your own ignorance of God is entrapping yourself.
@6gunwalker The offer is NEVER free. It comes with a threat... DO THIS OR SUFFER FOREVER - NT. DO THIS OR DIE (or you may be a slave or raped or both) - OT. That cannot be consider free. However, it worse, since, there is no god present just men claiming god to control the mind of people. Which allows for horrible actions of otherwise generally decent people.
@6gunwalker If this was were they lived, it was their land... So, this claim of promised land is much like the claim of the Christians coming to America and killing the natives to take the land. I see no difference. More murder condoned.... This does not bode well for peace with horrid notion like "giving equaling slaughtering the inhabitants".
sigh... christians are so obviously desperate to believe in this crap. I wonder when the exact point in time is, where they go from touting it, to actually believing in their own bullshit.. I suppose that is a graduation of delusion. Enter zombie mode and cut off all critical thinking faculties regarding anything that threatens your irrational belief in the plagiarized, done over and over again before jesus' time, virgin birth, crucifixion and resurrection.
So his argument is, it's a miracle because some people said it was? Doesn't that then mean every miracle claim by every religion ever is true? I don't get it. This guy must be a philosophical genius.
Haha! He's talking about a story in a book about alledged eyewitnesses to an alledged "miracle" here! Abook written almost a century after the "miracle" it tells of supposedly happened.. In a time when regular people were incredibly superstitious(resurrection tales were common), and where people lived for 40yrs if they were lucky.. There is one explanation that is infinitely more probable, very typically human,and does not require a suspension of the laws of physics: it was another fairytale!: )
Can you imagine sitting next to this guy on a long plane journey!?! Hours and hours of chat at the end of which you have learned absolutely nothing whatsoever! GET TO THE PHUCKING POINT!!!
lol athiests angry that craig through logic and reason distroyed thier little champion hitchens by a landslide defeat lol questions after questions craig poses asrtophysics, metaphysics and all hitchens does is bring up fanatical idiots who misinterpreted god and created religous institutions that contradict wo god really is... as if historical athiest figures were without fault themselves such as stalin to name one of many. when you answr gold with peanuts it becmes evident the game is ova lol
@6gunwalker The thing is his arguments have been sucessfully refuted over and over and over again.read the WLC Quentin Smith debate of 1996. It's in text format. Smith proves to WLC that his argument for God creating the universe is logically fallacious. Craig admits so but still uses it in every debate.This is but one. How bout the fine tuning argument . it presupposes that there is only one universe and that the goal of the universe is to create intelligent life. Begs the question
@6gunwalker The Ontological argument was convincing refuted by Paul Almond. the moral argument and the resurection are both disputed convincing . His arguemtns are far from SOUND? Lood up the Smith dbate you will find it quite interesting . In the end Craig blames philosophy for being inadequate to discuss God creating the universe. There is also the matter of craig himself saying the even if he found evidence countradicting the existence of god he would ignore it. this ..
@6gunwalker " hitchens does is bring up fanatical idiots who misinterpreted god " By directly quoting the Bible. Let me guess you cherry pick what you like and ignore the vile evil that your god commits
@emailpobox666 I couldn't agree with you more. It seems that many Christians attempt to distance themselves from the Old Testament even though it is exactly the same god as in the New Testament. This would be akin to Jeffrey Dahmer telling the judge "But that was before I changed....now I am benevolent....so all should be forgotten."
Ignoring the OT is immaterial in any case....slavery is condoned throughout the Bible...from Genesis to Revelation.
@6gunwalker "and all hitchens does is bring up fanatical idiots who misinterpreted god"
I assume you're talking about things like Moses in Numbers 31 and Jesus casting out demons in NT?
I also love how you're defending the omnipotent and omnibenevolent origin of morality itself, and your defense is "But Stalin did bad things as well!". Way to refute yourself. Don't feel bad though, Craig does this repeatedly as well.
@Gnomefro communism as you know is a state that negates God out of its factor... so now tell me... compare the amount of human deaths in marxist socities to religious stupidity... communism kills outnumbers it hands down... dont come at me with weak comebacks... just handle thenfact that hitchens and his so called intellect could his ass handed back to him lol
"If our minds and hearts our open, then we can bypass our critical faculties and entertain the notion that the laws of biology, physics, and chemistry were suspended 2000 years ago for a brief period. He couldn't of been stolen, he couldn't of been moved, the writers couldn't of just made it up. No. I can see no other explanation. Really. I cannot. I also make much money reinforcing absurd beliefs in the credulous"
With all due respect, WLC is indeed, intellectually-speaking, a douchebag. ALL of his positions are simply utterly question(s)-begging, (meta)metaphysically-speaking. But he seems oblivious to that, which is to say stupid. (Oh, and as for his scholarship on on the philosophy and (meta)physics of time. Please. See the work of Julian Bourbor and/or Dave Deutsch instead. (Why can't there be a more-or-less infinite series of **alternate** time-streams?! WLC has not coherent response).)
I always find it amusing when people talk about the specific doctrines of a religion: isn't that a bit like talking about the mating habits of the Big Foot? First prove you god exists, then we can talk specifics. Oh wait. Your entire religion - and all of your arguments - is based on the assumption that he does, not on proof that shows that he does.
"Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned."
"..For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous"
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."
@ThisMemory Did you think that quoting Bible verses would modify my outlook? The Bible is filled with a veritable plethora of utterly absurd stories which could easily be compared with fairy tales.
I was a Christian for twenty years and my parents sent me to Christian schools. Becoming more familiar with my Bible (and religion in general) resulted in my apostasy.
@ThisMemory I was gracious....I wasn't insulting...I was stating fact. I do apologize if you found it offensive but I only speak the truth. The Bible appears to be a collection of fictitious supernatural events.
Jesus allegedly appeared for the populace 2,000 years ago and supposedly performed a plethora of miracles for the general public...but current generations are expected to believe through faith.
If he did exist, then obviously he should perform similar miracles for present day man.
@CynicalSkeptic1 No problem.. but when your read the Bible you shouldn't be surprised when it speaks about miracles and supernatural events. If you read a bible that doesn't have either then it's proof and merit of divinity is rather questionable.
Jesus' miracles were used as vindication of His claims with the Bible being evidence of it. If I broke a Guinness World Record, the GWR Book would be evidence of it. I don't have to continually prove it to prove I did it.
@ThisMemory Ok, I completely disagree with you. If miracles are exhibited to others for affirmation of his divinity then they should be exhibited to all. Obviously I am not going to be inclined to believe supernatural events described in a 2,000 year old holy book that indicates you should stone your unruly children to death or kill anyone who works on the sabbath. However, if Jesus actually appeared today and performed miracles then he would acquire innumerable newfound believers.
@ThisMemory By the way, I realize i'm not going to change your mind. My target audience is actually religious believers who are 'on the fence' in relation to their religious belief.
Anyhow, I wish you a very merry Christmas!! (I realize that this is related to religion but Merry Christmas nonetheless!)
@CynicalSkeptic1 I figured you wouldn't agree as it defends the Bible. I believe words will never convince you unless uttered by God to you. Miracles would never convince you unless performed by God for you. Even then you would question your sanity.
@CynicalSkeptic1 ummm durrrrr do you have slow days every day ... scholars all agree that those explainations are not valid arguments based on consistent apocryphys from various writers in the first 300 years since Christs death... your explanations are from a mind that stays home and watches too much gay porn lmao hahah idiot!
@6gunwalker Sir, I am well aware of the Bible's content since I was a Christian for 20 years and my parents sent me to Christian schools. The Bible is replete with a veritable plethora of contradictions and utterly absurd fairy tales. Evolution is a fact of life and has been proven through multiple facets of science including DNA sequence analysis and the fossil record. Evolution disproves creation...Christianity's foundation disintegrates.
Now it should be apparent who is "having slow days".
@CynicalSkeptic1 a christian for 20 years and youve been reduced to this!!.. knowing the bible inside out doesnt mean you get the message... name me one verse in the bible where it contradicts itself.. i always hear atheists use this line and i know the classic questions aswell lol its as if being an atheist is completely perfect and without fault lmao bring your evolution it doesnt matter.
@6gunwalker You want "one" example? How about an entire list? All you have to do is Google "Contradictions in the Bible". But since you are apparently unable to perform this simple task...allow me to offer some web sites for your perusal.
@CynicalSkeptic1 so you cant quote me one verse in the bible where it contradicts itself... and your reply is "google contradictions in the bible??" and cut n paste hearsay arguments??? 20 years as a christian and you cant afford me one contradiction off the top? nevermind what people say via the search engines i want a personal attack from you...
@6gunwalker Why are you arguing about his ability to pull biblical contradictions off of the top of his head rather than the issue at hand; contradictions in the bible.
Copy and paste or not, the contradictions are there.
@Niemtol2 ok since i was specifically asking cynicalskeptic to refer me the contradictions in the bible he so simply pointed out while he was a "christian" for 20 years ill let you point out what exactly the contradictions were? and ill bet apples youll be googling the contradictions since you just go by hearsay.. lets see it.
@6gunwalker Ok, since you are apparently too lazy to type in a web site link (three of which I conveniently provided)...I will indicate one multi-faceted contradiction. I am certain that you are aware of the four gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John all give completely different descriptions of the biblical resurrection.
DIFFERENT DESCRIPTIONS = CONTRADICTIONS
I apologize for the capital letters but the Bible's contradictions are obvious. You just insist on remaining ignorant.
@CynicalSkeptic1 can you point out which parts of the gospels in reference to the resurection did any writers claim that jesus didnt ressurect? the message is clear.. jesus died and was bought to life again.. full stop. because the gospels dont PERFECTLY match up when it comes to who jesus appeared to after he was resurectd proves the point that writers over history has not attempted to tamper with the original records.. id be more worried if the gospels were perfect in detail.
@6gunwalker "id be more worried if the gospels were perfect in detail."
Sir, your rationalization is utterly absurd. This is supposed to be a "divinely inspired" text...IT SHOULD BE PERFECT. The fact that NONE of the four gospels agree with one another only serves to make the story LESS BELIEVABLE.
The Bible also describes "sprinkling bird's blood" as resulting in leprosy cleansing. Do you actually believe that bird's blood has any effect whatsoever in relation to leprosy?
@6gunwalker Your responses are a malodorous cloud of effluvium. You appear to wander aimlessly down a path bordered by euphemistic interpretations on one side and ignorance on the other. You didn't even address THE GEOGRAPHICAL PLACEMENT OF THE ANIMALS.
There are MANY MORE reasons why Noah's Ark was purely a work of fiction. Please read "The impossible voyage of Noah's Ark" by Robert A. Moore.
@6gunwalker Please answer these questions: If Noah's Ark were actually true...then why did ALL the Polar bears travel NORTH to the ARTIC and ALL of the penguins travel SOUTH to ANTARCTICA? The Arctic would have been just as hospitable for the penguins and would have been MUCH closer to Mt. Ararat. Also, why did the vast majority of marsupials travel to Australia? Why can't modern technology build a completely wooden ship that is 450 feet long if this allegedly occurred thousands of years ago?
@6gunwalker How many parasitic organisms would have to infest Noah's family since they ALL must have existed after the flood? This is a selection of the over 1,000 parasitic organisms from a web site: "Ringworm, tapeworms, pinworms, candida albicans (yeast infections) and plasmodia (malaria causing parasite), roundworms including ascaris , hookworms, whipworms, anisakid worm, Onchocerciasis (RIVER BLINDNESS WORM), , etc., etc., etc...".
The inhabitants of the Ark would be somewhat sickly...
@CynicalSkeptic1 a very trivial question... parasites can live in animals, the wood the ark was built from or in the ocean during the flood... they dont have to be all in one place at one time, a very trivial question that can be easily put to rest.
@6gunwalker "parasites can live in animals, the wood the ark was built from or in the ocean during the flood"
Your ignorance is truly astounding. MOST parasites don't live in wood and CERTAINLY COULDN'T LIVE IN THE OCEAN FOR OVER A YEAR. Many of the parasites are FATAL and ONLY LIVE INSIDE A HOST. Many of these parasites would also INFECT OTHER ANIMALS. Obviously, being on the Ark for OVER A YEAR would result in many fatalities....resulting in EXTINCTION for those particular animals.
@6gunwalker I also clearly indicated that MODERN TECHNOLOGY CANNOT BUILD A COMPLETELY WOODEN SHIP THAT IS 450 FEET LONG. They tend to flex when subjected to heavy seas and consequently leak profusely. The modern method of nautical transportation during Noah's time was reed rafts and hollowed-out logs. Apparently Noah and his family made this 450 foot vessel and, after the flood, humanity reverted back to reed rafts and hollowed-out logs.
@6gunwalker Noah's family and the animals would have to be infested with all of the above described parasites and MANY MORE. Every single possible disease, virus, and parasitic organism imaginable. (Strange how apparently none of them had HIV virus...perhaps god invented it for us later on?)
Also, why don't *faith* healers ever restore an amputee's limb? They supposedly cure all sorts of other ailments that cannot be proven...but missing limbs are somehow forgotten.
@6gunwalker What's the purpose of your god providing a parasitic eyeball-burrowing worm which blinds many thousands of children in third-world countries every year?..many of which are certainly Christians and praying to YOUR god. Do you pray to your god for material items? Many athletes thank god after victories. Do you believe that he would actually grant these requests and yet allow millions of children to die every year and thousands to go blind from the parasitic worms he allegedly provided?
@CynicalSkeptic1 worms and deseases arise out of lack of concern and poverty... is it gods fault that these countrys you are talking about are the same countrys that have been in civil wars for years over tribal, power and influence?? you cant have free will and expect god to fix man made problems when man feels its convenient.. if god came down to fix everything whats the point of havn free choice?? wouldnt we all just "believe instantly?" thn he cant say we chose to love him.
@CynicalSkeptic1 your short sighted examples that all man made problems are gods problems without realising that these are the consequences of free will... you cant just have fire for warmth and for cooking needs without the consequences that if you dont use it properly with the very same fire you could get burnt or die if uncontrolled...
@6gunwalker free will, why didn't the Canaanite's get a right to this free will. God had no problems sending in the Israelites to destroy them. Your guys contradict yourselves so often its quite embarrassing.
@atheistcommonsense the canaanites did have a free will... otherwise why would God bother with the israelite army to do the fighting??? why not destroy the canaanites from the heavens??? lol i wish atheists would stop reading the bible like a 5 year old and actually extend themselves when reading it... the amount of ignorance is very embarrassing lol
@6gunwalker you're the one saying the evil/suffering of the world is the price we pay for free-will. So why doesn't god, today, do the same thing as what he did to the Canaanites? Why doesn't god do the same thing to the Muslims, as he did to the Caananites? Don't be calling people ignorant when you write posts like that.
@atheistcommonsense so youre saying we can have fire to warm us, cook our food and any other uses beneficial to us... and also not get burnt??? lol we cant have our cake and eat it sir it doesnt work that way.. if theres an advantage theres a disadvantage.. our world works in this way.. if you drive a car its benefits are good however you run the risk of killing others or yrself by accident or purposely etc there are many examples.. free will has a price sir
@MyContext the price that God pays is total ridicule... you and i know sir that in life whatever decision we may choose for our own paths has a consequence to it... we have free will but there are consequences in exchange...
@6gunwalker Ridicule? Do you realize how vacuous that sounds? The claim of an all-knowing, all-powerful entity affect by ridicule by creatures according to the claim it would know why anyone of the creatures would do what they do and why and COULD give the necessary information to do better. Since, we are all bound by what we know and don't know as well as how we feel. This is another point of absurdity.
@6gunwalker Allow me to assist with your edification. DNA sequence comparison allows organisms to be grouped by sequence similarity, and the phylogenetic trees which result are generally in congruence with taxonomy. They are also used to enhance or correct taxonomic classifications. DNA confirmed the paleontological tree of life which scientists had envisioned long before it was CONFIRMED by DNA sequence analysis. Evolution is one of the most validated and confirmed theories in all of science.
@6gunwalker In fact, EVOLUTION is being put to practical use in industry and widely used on a DAILY basis by researchers in medicine, biochemistry, molecular biology, and genetics to both formulate hypotheses about biological systems for the purposes of experimental design, as well as to rationalize observed data and prepare applications.
@CynicalSkeptic1 I'm sure creationism has it's uses. Let me see dinosaurs living side by side with man. I've got it they used the "theory" of creationism and created the " The Flintstones"
@emailpobox666 LOL...I hadn't realized that the "Theory of Creationism" had actually been put to practical use. I thought it's only purpose was to contradict logic & reason.
If a tsunami strikes land and kills thousands of people...undoubtedly there was nothing that an omnipotent God could do to prevent this tragedy. However, if a baby is found alive underneath all the dead bodies, then, quite obviously, this is evidence of God's mercy.
@CynicalSkeptic1 your little analogy of trying to put god onto a silly notion based on these epic contrasts really shows the depths of your understanding lol the boxing day tsunami is just one of many more disasters that will happen... jesus already foretold these titanic events.. we already know and live life prepared for anything... this life is a mere shadow of whats instored for us in the next... we truely hope brother you discover who god is...
@6gunwalker You said "the boxing day tsunami is just one of many more disasters that will happen... jesus already foretold these titanic events..."
Sir, the "end of the world" was allegedly going to occur before all of Jesus' contemporaries died. It has since been predicted over and over and over again. The last time was what....March 21, 2011...and, again, it didn't happen.
@CynicalSkeptic1 ummm lol i dont know what book from the bible your referring to with these dates but i can GARANTEE you jesus did not quote these dates... the people who are making these claims are nothing short of cult figures who jesus even warned us about "be careful in those days of people who go around saying i am god" alot of false prophets are deceiving people.. jesus only says "no one knows the day nor the hour, not even me so prepare".. those r his words.
@maxavail You said "There's absolutely no evidence that emotional antipathy towards God causes a rational objective reason for His non-existence."
What you apparently misconstrued as "emotional antipathy towards God" was actually just an analogy demonstrating the utter absurdity of religious belief. We need only refer to the theory of evolution to disprove the biblical god.
Evolution = No Creation = No original sin = No need for Yahweh/Jesus' malodorous cloud of self-sacrificing effluvium
"On a side note, where is the tremendous sacrifice from Yahweh/Jesus if he gets crucified only to rise from the dead three days later and go to heaven?"
He did not merely die for us - He paid the price which we should pay for our sins. He experienced hell for us - literally. Every punishment for every sin of every man and woman, Jesus received instead of us. That is the tremendous display of unconditional love which Christ did for us.
@jagarf " He paid the price which we should pay for our sins. " And how exactly did we get into the position to have sins? Ohh yeah that's right your god created the circumstances knowing ( cause he is al knowing ) that we would eat the apple of knowledge( god for bid ( excuse the pun )we should have knowledge)
@jagarf An omnipotent entity wouldn't have "divinely inspired" an ancient text with so many unbelievable stories and expect present day man to believe without this ABSOLUTE PROOF. These stories about talking donkeys and foliage and women turning into salt and men living in whale bellies for three days...science has disproven much of the Bible and these appear to be ancient myths.
Evolution disproves Creation = No original sin = No need for Yahweh/Jesus to sacrifice himself to himself.
@CynicalSkeptic1 Or Jesus never even existed and it is a modified folk tale. The only writings that tell of Jesus come at least 70 years after his death. Not a single government document of his being crucified, arrested, or the dead walking all over town... nothing. The Jesus story has an uncanny similarity to Mithra, Horus and other earlier religious tales. The Josephus writings were third hand, much later and most historians believe were forged in large part.
@ultim4t32 Yes, I am aware that history appears to have forgotten the existence of "Jesus of Nazareth" outside of the Bible. I was simply reflecting on the absurdity of WLC's attempt to rationalize the biblical resurrection. There are so many reasons NOT to believe in organized religion. I lost my faith even before I found out about the validity of evolution...which is a very large nail in the coffin for "Creation".
Alternatively, Jesus ( Issa ) was a Buddhist, he survived crucifixion, and went to live the rest of his days in Kashmir. Just tap in Issa and India, or Kashmir, see what pops up
In the judgment of contemporary scholarship, Jesus actually never existed as a real person at all, and neither Nazareth nor Bethlehem existed around the year 0. In addition, it's highly likely that the Apostle Paul is more than likely nothing more than a literary antithesis to Simon Magus. When we stop apologizing for myths, maybe we can get on with the business of discovering reality.
Biblical debate always take place within the context of a science book and never the Bible. Why? Because the Bible says you aren't supposed to "test" God, you are only supposed to "prove" God. Why? How else are you supposed to steal 10% of someone's check and sell their daughters into slavery. Jeezus!!.. You people are stupid. Stop debating used car salesman about whether or not you should buy their junky car vs. walking 30 ft. across the street to your physics class.
Don't actually see anything objectionable in what WLC's saying here. His point seems to be:
If you take the discipline of historical research seriously, you can't just say, 'Magic done it', when stuck for a reasonable, naturalistic explanation of a past event. However, if you just disregard the discipline, you can freely appeal to magic as much as you like.
Fair enough, Dr. Craig. Just don't expect anyone to take your opinions on historical events seriously.
Craig is seriously a douche, he calls Richard Dawkins a coward, whereas he always cower away from defending the obvious nonsense in the bible, god calling for genocide, slavery and how all other religious ppl & atheists are going to burn FOREVER (playing tennis without a net). Whereas Dawkins on the other hand, as debated a lot more ppl and had his say about almost all the things about the issue.
@ThatDanmGuy Ohh! It was so bad with the Hitchmiester. Hitch was a bit drunk, i guess.. and this loud piece of cunt just kept on babbling about objective/subjective morality, and 'doody' towards 'Gaad'. Pathetic.
@bronzmash I don't recall Hitchens seeming drunk, though I do remember him being a bit sweaty that evening. It was just infuriating when WLC repeatedly claimed victory solely on the grounds that Hitchens did not provide evidence of the impossibility of the existence of a generic god, flat-out refusing to accept corrections to his definition of atheism as a belief rather than a rejection and implicitly insulting Hitchens for not adhering to his definition.
Actually, YOU are the only pathetic one here. At least Craig can speak like an adult, not an 8 year-old who's heard his friends cuss, and thinks it's "cool".
See..!? This is what proponents of Science do - they research. So, your profile says: "Redeemed and regenerated by the manifold grace of God through the shed blood of the Lamb of God, Jesus Christ. To him be all praise and honor!"
- No wonder you find the gibberish of Lane-Craig so attractive. You're deluded..
You also state, that you're a: "Vietnam-era veteran (US Army) 12 years
13A10 - Field Artillery, 105mm towed" - so i'll kindly reject your advice of "Grow up, moron"
What does my Army service have to do with WLC, or are you just taking ad hoc potshots and in no particular order? Notice I didn't have to throw an "F-bomb" in order to say this?
Real science is not in conflict with the Bible, but since YOU already have all the answers, I'm sure this means nothing.
@tigerlilly66 ..no, your background in Army has nothing to do with WLC, it's the age-factor.. which you misread, i referred to it for you saying "grow up, moron" - which, though not an f-bomb, is an ad-hominem attack. If i was to do the same; is that how you fought in the army? Calling ppl morons and asking'em to grow up..!? Seriously..??
"Real science is not in conflict with the Bible"
- You're so full of Bible (shit) that you can't even see its flaws. Too bad.
It is actually MY way.. your belief of the Bible being inerrant is based on circular faith; you think that the Bible is right because the Bible said so. The Bible and other such supposedly holy books are full of incorrect accounts of how life began, how the earth looks, and how old it is. It is filled with support for barbaric practices.. it is, like any other work of fiction, a 'Work of FICTION'.
Too bad that a book with so many fallacies is a best-seller.
Too bad a book that answers the honest questions of life that YOU have no explanation for is rejected out of hand because YOU have decided it is "fiction". How fortunate we are to have YOU standing guard! Millions who have trusted this book and found it to be 100% authentic, reliable, and comforting say you're a bald-faced LIAR, as does the God who wrote it. Free will permits you to reject anything you choose...thankfully, it applies only to YOUR warped world view.
..that homosexuality enrages God. You're a serf, a mindless zealot for the cause of the delusion but a zombie to reality. You can only serve the fiction called God because your sense of self has been hijacked by faith.. your sense of reality is warped by dogma, your sense of truth has been corrupted by a Book that touts itself as the word of God.
You're a good example of how toxic religion really is to human thought and progress.
..that allows your will-power to drop away from truth and start to think that fossil-evidence is put where it is, by God, to test faith.. that the earth is 6K yrs old (and possibly flat), that Jews are to be detested, that genital-mutilation of children is God's will,
..You're so circularly caught up in the cesspool of this religion crap that you can't even look upwards. You're beyond emancipation from the lunacy of religion..
4. "Free will permits you to reject anything you choose...thankfully, it applies only to YOUR warped world view."
- We do not have a choice with free-will. Neurobiology proves that. It is your God-delusion (Dawkins put it so precisely),
..How the hell do you know that your book is 100% authentic.. by eye-witness accounts in the Book..?! How is it reliable..? Because the Book says so..? Why is it comforting? Because it is less hard work than trying to search for, analyzing and understanding reality, to actually believe in a (narcissistic) sky-daddy who's worried about whether you believe in him..!?
3. "Millions who have trusted this book and found it to be 100% authentic, reliable, and comforting say you're a bald-faced LIAR, as does the God who wrote it."
- You see the problem there, don't you..!?
You (and the other deluded millions) will call me a liar based on a Book..! ..a book that they 'have faith in'..! This is the problem with blind faith - you're so myopic now that you think that you know what your God (who wrote the book, really?!) thinks.
..the evangelists who want you to convert to their 'faith' in return for a better 'afterlife..! ..i mean, seriously..? "Afterlife"..?!? Are you that insecure that you can't take responsibility for your actions, and end up feeling the need for redemption via a man in an elaborate costume sitting behind a screen.. a man who's just another human being..? That's so ludicrous and pathetic.
..Anyone should be offended by having to listen to a 2000yr. old book preached by an ill-qualified man while you sit at the pews and call it 'truth'. I have not decided without reasoning, that the Bible is a magnificent work of fiction.
2. "How fortunate we are to have YOU standing guard!"
- You are. It is lucky for the world that there are ppl who question homophobic, war-mongering, dogma-believing, elitist, left-wing nutbags..
@bronzmash = I must assume you are used to simply overwhelming the oppostion by sheer volume of your ascerbic comments. Sorry, but reverting to the tried and true tool of atheism, eg, character assassination, isn't worthy of a rebuttle.
You reject a book that by your own admission has endured 2000 years (actually, it is closer to 4500), yet I'm to believe that your years on earth numbering less than 50 qualify you to be judge, jury, and executioner of Christianity? THAT'S chutzpah!
The difference alone is greater than your first figure, get a clue! Your claims of an inerrant book is as funny as this 2000yr. 4500yr fiasco and all Muslims claiming the Koran as the exclusive word of the only God..!
And in the past 50yrs. human knowledge has grown sufficiently to deem this audacity - just a statement of confidence.. thank you! So try digesting the arguments your opponent presents, however loquacious.
Homer's 'Illiad' and 'Odyssey' have survived longer - doen't mean it's the truth! Actually, it is more smart to say, that as human civilization advances, the newer the books are, the more factual they will be.. and in that game, the Koran beats you hands down. Plus, according to them, you're a 'Kaffir' (a non-believer) and that you're going straight to hell (Yepp! No virgins for you buddy!) Plus, you say "it's endured 2000yrs" and then "actually, it is closer to 4500" - seriously!?
@bronzmash = How interesting you would cite Homer as evidence to support your position...
The Iliad & Odyssey was written in approximately 900BC. The earliest known manuscript for it is from around 400BC...some 500 years. There are about 600 known surviving manuscripts for it. The New Testament was written from about 40-100AD, the oldest copy dating from around 125AD. Do the math. There are around 24,000 surviving manuscripts in support of the NT. What's that you say about evidence?
I say you should look at > j.mp / sxUDJQ < (without the spaces). It'll tell you the science of religiosity. And seriously?!.. all you got from what i said was Homer..?? Even this evidence holds - now reply to the rest.. if you have any logical way to do so, that is.
@bronzmash - Sorry, but your "cherry picking" reply may as well have been in Chinese, because it made about as much sense to me.
So when documented history suits you, as in YOUR citing of Homer, it is righteous. When morons like me cite the SAME source, it is now uneducated. Just as I knew you would, you completely miss the pont of my reply...it is dishonest to use one set of rules for establishing the Bible's authenticity, yet a different set for "secular" literature.
@tigerlilly66 ..if it made little sense to you, please blame it on your faculties.. & maybe read again. As for Homer - what 'different set' of rules are you talkin'bout..!? Homer's work is fiction too - absolutely so..! So is the Bible, just by surviving times, a book does not become authentic in its claim, otherwise Homer's work could be considered real too. If you understand this now, you'll surely see no discrepancy in secular judgment.
You thought i missed you point.. you're wrong. All over.
..yes, i can, because i come from and with information.
Anyway, my comments are 'acerbic' when i am countering stupidity alone. You say "Sorry, ..(xyz) isn't worthy of rebuttal."; i agree - the tried and tested tool of theists is to run away from logic. And you just did that..! I acknowledge (not admit) that this book has survived 2000yrs. but that isn't the test of a book's credibility..!
@tigerlilly66 Just because a book has endured thousands of years doesn't mean it is a true account of anything. Homer's works are great stories but no one prays to the Greek gods today due to those stories now do they. Just like Homer's works the bible has some real world history thrown into it mixed with friction. Craig is a con man making money off the idiots that believe his BS. he makes it sound cool but it is still BS
1. "Too bad a book that answers the honest questions of life.."
- You're wrong, the question is honest.. yes. But this book answers it to the best of only YOUR satisfaction. Science answers questions with empirical evidence and does not ask you to resort to 'faith'. I mean, it is so denigrating to have to "believe" the truth rather than to be able to test it, feel it, and understand & question it.
"I thought Jesus was god and therefor eternal. So raising him from the dead.... how is that a miracle? Reviving something that can never die?"
- Do you see the flaw in that..? ..you THOUGHT that Jesus was god and _thus_ 'eternal'. How many assumptions did you make? You may say that it says so in the Bible - but that way you'll be resorting to the book to prove the book (circular reasoning). Before asking whether we can revive something that can't die, see if there is something such.
@bronzmash N.P. and wow someone conceding a mistake, what happened to my internet?
I just try to use sarcasm to show what a silly argument this guy is putting forward but I agree my writing was a bit silly.
I also saw this other vid of him where he said that it doesn't matter that it(saying he doesn't need a creator) is special reasoning for gods existence because(paraphrase) '' They(Atheist) do it to!''
:D Dr. Lane Craig, as attested in the top-comment, is truly a bullshit artist..! And unlike him, we're all rational e'nuf to know that we can make mistakes.. so, your internet's fine!
You mean "someone"? You're missing the whole point of the Incarnation, pal - it means to "put on flesh". Jesus had skin, bone, and blood just like any OTHER man. How else would God be able to be seen, touched, and experienced by humankind? That was his sole purpose, thus the Resurrection was very necessary and very unique to Him.
Check out John 10:17-18 and see who it was that raised Jesus from the dead! Either Jesus was God, or he was a self-deceived liar and lunatic!
@tigerlilly66 ..that brings us then to the second step! Yes.. see you later. :D
..you gotta be kidding me'bout Judgment Day tho'.. right?? I mean you really thi.. omigawd! YOU DO!! Very 'open-minded' of you as well.. actually so open-minded you are Sir, that your brains fell off.
But seriously, your reply's a rhetoric; you're skirting the issue. That's very biblical of you anyway - i mean, afterall, you DO learn from the book. My advice: stop living the life of a serf.. see the glory of science.
@Fr1tz3l = No, I don't have to guess what the answer is. It is pretty obvious what I believe. I already answered your question, man! My perception is based on sound, solid evidence, numerous eyewitness accounts of the life of Jesus, the veracity, historicty, preservation of both the Old and New Testaments, validation by archaeology, and BEST of all, the faith given me by the only God there is to believe it. Yes, I believe it by faith, just as YOU and the brilliant bronzmash also do!
Oh really? Give me one confirmed archaeological discovery that supports Hinduism, Buddhism, or any other "ism" you care to select (if there are any) and I'll document 50 that back up biblical claims.
Since neither of us were around at the foundation of the universe, what we believe is dependent upon our faith in whatever it is that we tells us the truth about this issue. I choose to believe the Bible, you choose what YOU want to believe. Not complicated t all...
@MewCat100 = Perhaps you haven't followed all the rantings of bronzmash, Fr1tz31, and a few others, so I'll give you the benefit of any doubts I may have and ask you the same question I asked them. They all said an emphatic "NO" in one form or another...
You ask me to present my biblical evidence. So far - so good, but then you state it will be "interesting" to see me "fail". Now I get the distinct impression that you are NOT of an objective mind in the least, just like your pals!
I'll rework that last quote: For a God who can make the whole of the Universe, what does he care what I do with my penis?
MichaelTheOliver 3 weeks ago
(Part 1): When speaking of the resurrection, Craig always operates under the assumption that the accounts in the Gospel come from historical, reliable eyewitness sources. He invariably ignores issues of authorship, dates of composition, and the lack of corroborating primary sources for both the existence of Jesus and the resurrection.
alexhatesmil 1 month ago
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alexhatesmil 1 month ago
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@alexhatesmil (Part 2): Ray Bradley made a wonderful point during his debate with Craig, one that Craig largely ignored. If we are to believe that hell exists as an emotional rather than a physical torment (as Craig posits), in other words, that the Pit of Fire is purely metaphorical, we are on quite a slippery slope. If not everything in the Bible is to be taken literally, how do we decide what is historical and what is figurative? If hell is a metaphor, why not the resurrection?
alexhatesmil 1 month ago
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my eye witness account states that this guy was caught in an orgy with the flying spaghetti monster. THE LORDS WORK IS DONE!
the scriptures also tells that lord Voldemort shall rise again, that Luke skywalker was the son of our farther almighty Darth Vader, and that the force was indeed strong with both of them.
and so it was written and so it is true because an eye witness saw it.
nojhead 1 month ago
I'm speechless, that was without a doubt one of the most.. Just kill me, I don't want to live any more. You've fucking done it Craig, you've killed me with your stupidity, stupid shit wanker.
CaptainThrill 1 month ago
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HellRehab 1 month ago
@6gunwalker that in no way answered the question. I want to why, god had the caananites destroyed, but isnt having a similar culture (say muslims) destroyed! You cant answer it, hey you cant answer it.
atheistcommonsense 1 month ago
@atheistcommonsense youre asking me a seperate question out of the true context... the caananites were a people who were in the promised land which God promised Israel in Egypt... the leaders of Israel commanded by Joshua had to apply the "rules of engagement" to the caananites before any war was spoken off.... now youre asking me to answer why did Israel defeat the caananites and not the muslims who came thousands of years later and from a different nation???? impossible??
6gunwalker 1 month ago
@6gunwalker that's not what i asked you, i asked you one simple question, in response to free-will. You stated, evil was the price we pay for free will. I say God had no problem back then intervening, but he/she/it is impotent today to intervene. I asked why doesn't he/she/it give the command today, like he/she/it commanded the leaders of israel back then . Clearly you cant answer, that's o.k. No one I have asked seems to be able to. The Caananites werent entitled to the same free will we have
atheistcommonsense 1 month ago
@atheistcommonsense ive answered your question. ill repeat it in another way.. the caananites were a people OCCUPYING the "promised land" during the period of the HUGE EXODUS of Israel from Egypt, GOD was with ISRAEL during that time... Islam came into existence 600 years AD... when the Israelites rejected "THE MESSIAH" = Jesus, they REJECTED GOD, thats why Jesus said, Israel because you rejected the messiah your enemies will surround you.. look at the middle east
6gunwalker 1 month ago
@6gunwalker Christ or GOD HERE WITH US ON EARTH, is the FREE OFFER OF GOD TO ALL MANKIND TO ACCEPT HIM, because its not about distroying muslims or any other people who dont believe in the DIVINITY of Christ HERE ON EARTH its about WHAT HE WILL DO ON THE JUDGEMENT DAY...... your asking a classic atheist question to try and keep people away from Gods free invitation... but your own ignorance of God is entrapping yourself.
6gunwalker 1 month ago
@6gunwalker The offer is NEVER free. It comes with a threat... DO THIS OR SUFFER FOREVER - NT. DO THIS OR DIE (or you may be a slave or raped or both) - OT. That cannot be consider free. However, it worse, since, there is no god present just men claiming god to control the mind of people. Which allows for horrible actions of otherwise generally decent people.
MyContext 1 month ago
@6gunwalker hahahahahah what rubbish, asking to get put in your place again.
LOL i also see your fav'd that dawkins vid hahah despite being told it was edited to cut his entire answer. What a disgrace to intellectuals you are.
itchygonads 1 month ago
@6gunwalker If this was were they lived, it was their land... So, this claim of promised land is much like the claim of the Christians coming to America and killing the natives to take the land. I see no difference. More murder condoned.... This does not bode well for peace with horrid notion like "giving equaling slaughtering the inhabitants".
MyContext 1 month ago
@6gunwalker The claim of giving land when in fact the people were slaughtered and the land was taken... Major distortion of language perhaps?
MyContext 1 month ago
This subhuman religious filth is an enemy of Humanity. A treasonous craven coward, a liar and must be cleansed before it hurts a Human.
699backstab 1 month ago
sigh... christians are so obviously desperate to believe in this crap. I wonder when the exact point in time is, where they go from touting it, to actually believing in their own bullshit.. I suppose that is a graduation of delusion. Enter zombie mode and cut off all critical thinking faculties regarding anything that threatens your irrational belief in the plagiarized, done over and over again before jesus' time, virgin birth, crucifixion and resurrection.
Johnf85 2 months ago
So his argument is, it's a miracle because some people said it was? Doesn't that then mean every miracle claim by every religion ever is true? I don't get it. This guy must be a philosophical genius.
happyhappy85 2 months ago
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happyhappy85 2 months ago
Haha! He's talking about a story in a book about alledged eyewitnesses to an alledged "miracle" here! Abook written almost a century after the "miracle" it tells of supposedly happened.. In a time when regular people were incredibly superstitious(resurrection tales were common), and where people lived for 40yrs if they were lucky.. There is one explanation that is infinitely more probable, very typically human,and does not require a suspension of the laws of physics: it was another fairytale!: )
winterstellar 2 months ago
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@winterstellar Occam's Razor
emailpobox666 2 months ago
'Eye Witness accounts...' ??? And Craig thinks he is educated??? hahahaha
osiris7nz 2 months ago
"the facts"???
There are NO facts that Jesus ever existed in the first place.
This is like the KCA, bullshit.
baldurus1 2 months ago
Can you imagine sitting next to this guy on a long plane journey!?! Hours and hours of chat at the end of which you have learned absolutely nothing whatsoever! GET TO THE PHUCKING POINT!!!
m00nshine2004 2 months ago
You don't need proof to disprove a fairytale.
ContradictoryNature 2 months ago 7
Which eye witnesses? You mean the gospels, Craig? I smell major BS...
MrDarkbloom 2 months ago
lol athiests angry that craig through logic and reason distroyed thier little champion hitchens by a landslide defeat lol questions after questions craig poses asrtophysics, metaphysics and all hitchens does is bring up fanatical idiots who misinterpreted god and created religous institutions that contradict wo god really is... as if historical athiest figures were without fault themselves such as stalin to name one of many. when you answr gold with peanuts it becmes evident the game is ova lol
6gunwalker 2 months ago
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@6gunwalker The thing is his arguments have been sucessfully refuted over and over and over again.read the WLC Quentin Smith debate of 1996. It's in text format. Smith proves to WLC that his argument for God creating the universe is logically fallacious. Craig admits so but still uses it in every debate.This is but one. How bout the fine tuning argument . it presupposes that there is only one universe and that the goal of the universe is to create intelligent life. Begs the question
emailpobox666 2 months ago
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@6gunwalker The Ontological argument was convincing refuted by Paul Almond. the moral argument and the resurection are both disputed convincing . His arguemtns are far from SOUND? Lood up the Smith dbate you will find it quite interesting . In the end Craig blames philosophy for being inadequate to discuss God creating the universe. There is also the matter of craig himself saying the even if he found evidence countradicting the existence of god he would ignore it. this ..
emailpobox666 2 months ago
@6gunwalker " hitchens does is bring up fanatical idiots who misinterpreted god " By directly quoting the Bible. Let me guess you cherry pick what you like and ignore the vile evil that your god commits
emailpobox666 2 months ago
@emailpobox666 I couldn't agree with you more. It seems that many Christians attempt to distance themselves from the Old Testament even though it is exactly the same god as in the New Testament. This would be akin to Jeffrey Dahmer telling the judge "But that was before I changed....now I am benevolent....so all should be forgotten."
Ignoring the OT is immaterial in any case....slavery is condoned throughout the Bible...from Genesis to Revelation.
CynicalSkeptic1 2 months ago
@6gunwalker "and all hitchens does is bring up fanatical idiots who misinterpreted god"
I assume you're talking about things like Moses in Numbers 31 and Jesus casting out demons in NT?
I also love how you're defending the omnipotent and omnibenevolent origin of morality itself, and your defense is "But Stalin did bad things as well!". Way to refute yourself. Don't feel bad though, Craig does this repeatedly as well.
Gnomefro 2 months ago
@Gnomefro communism as you know is a state that negates God out of its factor... so now tell me... compare the amount of human deaths in marxist socities to religious stupidity... communism kills outnumbers it hands down... dont come at me with weak comebacks... just handle thenfact that hitchens and his so called intellect could his ass handed back to him lol
6gunwalker 2 months ago
@6gunwalker The problem with Communism is that it is too much like a religion. Worship the state. the state is your master
emailpobox666 2 months ago
Apologetics: once considered a righteous activity, now considered a hobby to those desperately trying to justify their wacky beliefs.
YTBNA 2 months ago
"If our minds and hearts our open, then we can bypass our critical faculties and entertain the notion that the laws of biology, physics, and chemistry were suspended 2000 years ago for a brief period. He couldn't of been stolen, he couldn't of been moved, the writers couldn't of just made it up. No. I can see no other explanation. Really. I cannot. I also make much money reinforcing absurd beliefs in the credulous"
FellOnSoundGarden 2 months ago
With all due respect, WLC is indeed, intellectually-speaking, a douchebag. ALL of his positions are simply utterly question(s)-begging, (meta)metaphysically-speaking. But he seems oblivious to that, which is to say stupid. (Oh, and as for his scholarship on on the philosophy and (meta)physics of time. Please. See the work of Julian Bourbor and/or Dave Deutsch instead. (Why can't there be a more-or-less infinite series of **alternate** time-streams?! WLC has not coherent response).)
MCP2012 2 months ago
wlc is the ` IFMAN `
naybobdenod 2 months ago
So, since historical records are nonexistent, I'm going to make my claim a purely philosophical one, and not back it up other than saying I can.
Roaddogg666 2 months ago in playlist More videos from drcraigisadouche
I always find it amusing when people talk about the specific doctrines of a religion: isn't that a bit like talking about the mating habits of the Big Foot? First prove you god exists, then we can talk specifics. Oh wait. Your entire religion - and all of your arguments - is based on the assumption that he does, not on proof that shows that he does.
red666111 2 months ago
Craig "God raised Jesus from the dead....I can think of no better explanation..."
Explanation 1: The apostles moved the corpse.
Explanation 2: Jesus turned into a zombie and flew to heaven.
Which seems more likely?
On a side note, where is the tremendous sacrifice from Yahweh/Jesus if he gets crucified only to rise from the dead three days later and go to heaven?
CynicalSkeptic1 2 months ago 27
@CynicalSkeptic1 It was a sinless life.
"Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned."
"..For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous"
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."
ThisMemory 2 months ago
@ThisMemory Did you think that quoting Bible verses would modify my outlook? The Bible is filled with a veritable plethora of utterly absurd stories which could easily be compared with fairy tales.
I was a Christian for twenty years and my parents sent me to Christian schools. Becoming more familiar with my Bible (and religion in general) resulted in my apostasy.
CynicalSkeptic1 2 months ago
@CynicalSkeptic1 I gave you the answer to your question so be gracious.
ThisMemory 2 months ago
@ThisMemory I was gracious....I wasn't insulting...I was stating fact. I do apologize if you found it offensive but I only speak the truth. The Bible appears to be a collection of fictitious supernatural events.
Jesus allegedly appeared for the populace 2,000 years ago and supposedly performed a plethora of miracles for the general public...but current generations are expected to believe through faith.
If he did exist, then obviously he should perform similar miracles for present day man.
CynicalSkeptic1 2 months ago
@CynicalSkeptic1 No problem.. but when your read the Bible you shouldn't be surprised when it speaks about miracles and supernatural events. If you read a bible that doesn't have either then it's proof and merit of divinity is rather questionable.
Jesus' miracles were used as vindication of His claims with the Bible being evidence of it. If I broke a Guinness World Record, the GWR Book would be evidence of it. I don't have to continually prove it to prove I did it.
ThisMemory 2 months ago
@ThisMemory Ok, I completely disagree with you. If miracles are exhibited to others for affirmation of his divinity then they should be exhibited to all. Obviously I am not going to be inclined to believe supernatural events described in a 2,000 year old holy book that indicates you should stone your unruly children to death or kill anyone who works on the sabbath. However, if Jesus actually appeared today and performed miracles then he would acquire innumerable newfound believers.
CynicalSkeptic1 2 months ago
@ThisMemory By the way, I realize i'm not going to change your mind. My target audience is actually religious believers who are 'on the fence' in relation to their religious belief.
Anyhow, I wish you a very merry Christmas!! (I realize that this is related to religion but Merry Christmas nonetheless!)
CynicalSkeptic1 2 months ago
@CynicalSkeptic1 I figured you wouldn't agree as it defends the Bible. I believe words will never convince you unless uttered by God to you. Miracles would never convince you unless performed by God for you. Even then you would question your sanity.
But, Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays!
ThisMemory 2 months ago
@CynicalSkeptic1 Btw I wasn't trying to be mean. Just pointing out that it takes faith even when you have proof.
ThisMemory 2 months ago
@CynicalSkeptic1 ummm durrrrr do you have slow days every day ... scholars all agree that those explainations are not valid arguments based on consistent apocryphys from various writers in the first 300 years since Christs death... your explanations are from a mind that stays home and watches too much gay porn lmao hahah idiot!
6gunwalker 2 months ago
@6gunwalker Sir, I am well aware of the Bible's content since I was a Christian for 20 years and my parents sent me to Christian schools. The Bible is replete with a veritable plethora of contradictions and utterly absurd fairy tales. Evolution is a fact of life and has been proven through multiple facets of science including DNA sequence analysis and the fossil record. Evolution disproves creation...Christianity's foundation disintegrates.
Now it should be apparent who is "having slow days".
CynicalSkeptic1 2 months ago
@CynicalSkeptic1 a christian for 20 years and youve been reduced to this!!.. knowing the bible inside out doesnt mean you get the message... name me one verse in the bible where it contradicts itself.. i always hear atheists use this line and i know the classic questions aswell lol its as if being an atheist is completely perfect and without fault lmao bring your evolution it doesnt matter.
6gunwalker 2 months ago
@6gunwalker You want "one" example? How about an entire list? All you have to do is Google "Contradictions in the Bible". But since you are apparently unable to perform this simple task...allow me to offer some web sites for your perusal.
infidels(dot)org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions(dot)html
thethinkingatheist(dot)com/page/bible-contradictions
skepticsannotatedbible(dot)com/contra/by_name(dot)html
CynicalSkeptic1 2 months ago
@CynicalSkeptic1 so you cant quote me one verse in the bible where it contradicts itself... and your reply is "google contradictions in the bible??" and cut n paste hearsay arguments??? 20 years as a christian and you cant afford me one contradiction off the top? nevermind what people say via the search engines i want a personal attack from you...
6gunwalker 2 months ago
@6gunwalker Why are you arguing about his ability to pull biblical contradictions off of the top of his head rather than the issue at hand; contradictions in the bible.
Copy and paste or not, the contradictions are there.
Niemtol2 2 months ago
@Niemtol2 ok since i was specifically asking cynicalskeptic to refer me the contradictions in the bible he so simply pointed out while he was a "christian" for 20 years ill let you point out what exactly the contradictions were? and ill bet apples youll be googling the contradictions since you just go by hearsay.. lets see it.
6gunwalker 2 months ago
@6gunwalker Ok, since you are apparently too lazy to type in a web site link (three of which I conveniently provided)...I will indicate one multi-faceted contradiction. I am certain that you are aware of the four gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John all give completely different descriptions of the biblical resurrection.
DIFFERENT DESCRIPTIONS = CONTRADICTIONS
I apologize for the capital letters but the Bible's contradictions are obvious. You just insist on remaining ignorant.
CynicalSkeptic1 2 months ago
@CynicalSkeptic1 can you point out which parts of the gospels in reference to the resurection did any writers claim that jesus didnt ressurect? the message is clear.. jesus died and was bought to life again.. full stop. because the gospels dont PERFECTLY match up when it comes to who jesus appeared to after he was resurectd proves the point that writers over history has not attempted to tamper with the original records.. id be more worried if the gospels were perfect in detail.
6gunwalker 2 months ago
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@6gunwalker "id be more worried if the gospels were perfect in detail."
Sir, your rationalization is utterly absurd. This is supposed to be a "divinely inspired" text...IT SHOULD BE PERFECT. The fact that NONE of the four gospels agree with one another only serves to make the story LESS BELIEVABLE.
The Bible also describes "sprinkling bird's blood" as resulting in leprosy cleansing. Do you actually believe that bird's blood has any effect whatsoever in relation to leprosy?
CynicalSkeptic1 2 months ago
@CynicalSkeptic1 next contradiction please. valid ones that contradict the actual message lol
6gunwalker 2 months ago
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@6gunwalker Your responses are a malodorous cloud of effluvium. You appear to wander aimlessly down a path bordered by euphemistic interpretations on one side and ignorance on the other. You didn't even address THE GEOGRAPHICAL PLACEMENT OF THE ANIMALS.
There are MANY MORE reasons why Noah's Ark was purely a work of fiction. Please read "The impossible voyage of Noah's Ark" by Robert A. Moore.
CynicalSkeptic1 2 months ago
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@6gunwalker Please also investiage these links:
talkorigins(dot)org/faqs/comdesc/section1
anthro(dot)palomar(dot)edu/evolve/evolve_3
wikipedia(dot)org/wiki/Evidence_of_common_descent
evolution(dot)berkeley(dot)edu/evolibrary/search/topicbrowse2
txtwriter(dot)com/backgrounders/evolution/evcontents
Evolution is a fact of life = No Creation = No original sin = No need for Yahweh/Jesus to sacrifice himself to himself.
CynicalSkeptic1 2 months ago
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@6gunwalker **investigate
CynicalSkeptic1 2 months ago
@6gunwalker Please answer these questions: If Noah's Ark were actually true...then why did ALL the Polar bears travel NORTH to the ARTIC and ALL of the penguins travel SOUTH to ANTARCTICA? The Arctic would have been just as hospitable for the penguins and would have been MUCH closer to Mt. Ararat. Also, why did the vast majority of marsupials travel to Australia? Why can't modern technology build a completely wooden ship that is 450 feet long if this allegedly occurred thousands of years ago?
CynicalSkeptic1 2 months ago
@6gunwalker How many parasitic organisms would have to infest Noah's family since they ALL must have existed after the flood? This is a selection of the over 1,000 parasitic organisms from a web site: "Ringworm, tapeworms, pinworms, candida albicans (yeast infections) and plasmodia (malaria causing parasite), roundworms including ascaris , hookworms, whipworms, anisakid worm, Onchocerciasis (RIVER BLINDNESS WORM), , etc., etc., etc...".
The inhabitants of the Ark would be somewhat sickly...
CynicalSkeptic1 2 months ago
@CynicalSkeptic1 a very trivial question... parasites can live in animals, the wood the ark was built from or in the ocean during the flood... they dont have to be all in one place at one time, a very trivial question that can be easily put to rest.
6gunwalker 2 months ago
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@6gunwalker "parasites can live in animals, the wood the ark was built from or in the ocean during the flood"
Your ignorance is truly astounding. MOST parasites don't live in wood and CERTAINLY COULDN'T LIVE IN THE OCEAN FOR OVER A YEAR. Many of the parasites are FATAL and ONLY LIVE INSIDE A HOST. Many of these parasites would also INFECT OTHER ANIMALS. Obviously, being on the Ark for OVER A YEAR would result in many fatalities....resulting in EXTINCTION for those particular animals.
CynicalSkeptic1 2 months ago
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@6gunwalker I also clearly indicated that MODERN TECHNOLOGY CANNOT BUILD A COMPLETELY WOODEN SHIP THAT IS 450 FEET LONG. They tend to flex when subjected to heavy seas and consequently leak profusely. The modern method of nautical transportation during Noah's time was reed rafts and hollowed-out logs. Apparently Noah and his family made this 450 foot vessel and, after the flood, humanity reverted back to reed rafts and hollowed-out logs.
CynicalSkeptic1 2 months ago
@6gunwalker Noah's family and the animals would have to be infested with all of the above described parasites and MANY MORE. Every single possible disease, virus, and parasitic organism imaginable. (Strange how apparently none of them had HIV virus...perhaps god invented it for us later on?)
Also, why don't *faith* healers ever restore an amputee's limb? They supposedly cure all sorts of other ailments that cannot be proven...but missing limbs are somehow forgotten.
How strange...
CynicalSkeptic1 2 months ago
@6gunwalker What's the purpose of your god providing a parasitic eyeball-burrowing worm which blinds many thousands of children in third-world countries every year?..many of which are certainly Christians and praying to YOUR god. Do you pray to your god for material items? Many athletes thank god after victories. Do you believe that he would actually grant these requests and yet allow millions of children to die every year and thousands to go blind from the parasitic worms he allegedly provided?
CynicalSkeptic1 2 months ago
@CynicalSkeptic1 worms and deseases arise out of lack of concern and poverty... is it gods fault that these countrys you are talking about are the same countrys that have been in civil wars for years over tribal, power and influence?? you cant have free will and expect god to fix man made problems when man feels its convenient.. if god came down to fix everything whats the point of havn free choice?? wouldnt we all just "believe instantly?" thn he cant say we chose to love him.
6gunwalker 2 months ago
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@6gunwalker Here are some excerpts from your responses: "worms and deseases arise out of lack of concern and poverty"
YOUR MALEVOLENT GOD ALLEGEDLY PROVIDED THEM. PERIOD.
You also said "your short sighted examples that all man made problems are gods problems.."
GOD ALLEGEDLY MADE MAN AND IS SUPPOSED TO BE OMNISCIENT...HE SHOULD HAVE KNOWN WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IN ADVANCE.
CynicalSkeptic1 2 months ago
@CynicalSkeptic1 your short sighted examples that all man made problems are gods problems without realising that these are the consequences of free will... you cant just have fire for warmth and for cooking needs without the consequences that if you dont use it properly with the very same fire you could get burnt or die if uncontrolled...
6gunwalker 2 months ago
@6gunwalker free will, why didn't the Canaanite's get a right to this free will. God had no problems sending in the Israelites to destroy them. Your guys contradict yourselves so often its quite embarrassing.
atheistcommonsense 2 months ago
@atheistcommonsense the canaanites did have a free will... otherwise why would God bother with the israelite army to do the fighting??? why not destroy the canaanites from the heavens??? lol i wish atheists would stop reading the bible like a 5 year old and actually extend themselves when reading it... the amount of ignorance is very embarrassing lol
6gunwalker 1 month ago
@6gunwalker you're the one saying the evil/suffering of the world is the price we pay for free-will. So why doesn't god, today, do the same thing as what he did to the Canaanites? Why doesn't god do the same thing to the Muslims, as he did to the Caananites? Don't be calling people ignorant when you write posts like that.
atheistcommonsense 1 month ago
@atheistcommonsense so youre saying we can have fire to warm us, cook our food and any other uses beneficial to us... and also not get burnt??? lol we cant have our cake and eat it sir it doesnt work that way.. if theres an advantage theres a disadvantage.. our world works in this way.. if you drive a car its benefits are good however you run the risk of killing others or yrself by accident or purposely etc there are many examples.. free will has a price sir
6gunwalker 1 month ago
@6gunwalker By your logic...what price does a supposed god pay?
MyContext 1 month ago
@MyContext the price that God pays is total ridicule... you and i know sir that in life whatever decision we may choose for our own paths has a consequence to it... we have free will but there are consequences in exchange...
6gunwalker 1 month ago
@6gunwalker Ridicule? Do you realize how vacuous that sounds? The claim of an all-knowing, all-powerful entity affect by ridicule by creatures according to the claim it would know why anyone of the creatures would do what they do and why and COULD give the necessary information to do better. Since, we are all bound by what we know and don't know as well as how we feel. This is another point of absurdity.
MyContext 1 month ago
@6gunwalker Allow me to assist with your edification. DNA sequence comparison allows organisms to be grouped by sequence similarity, and the phylogenetic trees which result are generally in congruence with taxonomy. They are also used to enhance or correct taxonomic classifications. DNA confirmed the paleontological tree of life which scientists had envisioned long before it was CONFIRMED by DNA sequence analysis. Evolution is one of the most validated and confirmed theories in all of science.
CynicalSkeptic1 2 months ago
@6gunwalker Here are some links about evolution if you are interested.
talkorigins(dot)org/faqs/comdesc/section1
anthro(dot)palomar(dot)edu/evolve/evolve_3
wikipedia(dot)org/wiki/Evidence_of_common_descent
evolution(dot)berkeley(dot)edu/evolibrary/search/topicbrowse2
txtwriter(dot)com/backgrounders/evolution/evcontents
You can ignore the information if you prefer....but that doesn't make it disappear.
CynicalSkeptic1 2 months ago
@6gunwalker In fact, EVOLUTION is being put to practical use in industry and widely used on a DAILY basis by researchers in medicine, biochemistry, molecular biology, and genetics to both formulate hypotheses about biological systems for the purposes of experimental design, as well as to rationalize observed data and prepare applications.
CynicalSkeptic1 2 months ago
@CynicalSkeptic1 I'm sure creationism has it's uses. Let me see dinosaurs living side by side with man. I've got it they used the "theory" of creationism and created the " The Flintstones"
emailpobox666 2 months ago
@emailpobox666 LOL...I hadn't realized that the "Theory of Creationism" had actually been put to practical use. I thought it's only purpose was to contradict logic & reason.
If a tsunami strikes land and kills thousands of people...undoubtedly there was nothing that an omnipotent God could do to prevent this tragedy. However, if a baby is found alive underneath all the dead bodies, then, quite obviously, this is evidence of God's mercy.
This is an example of the "Theory of God".
CynicalSkeptic1 2 months ago 23
@CynicalSkeptic1 I thought you were aware the god was the originator of the saying Heads I Win Tails You Lose
emailpobox666 2 months ago
@CynicalSkeptic1 your little analogy of trying to put god onto a silly notion based on these epic contrasts really shows the depths of your understanding lol the boxing day tsunami is just one of many more disasters that will happen... jesus already foretold these titanic events.. we already know and live life prepared for anything... this life is a mere shadow of whats instored for us in the next... we truely hope brother you discover who god is...
6gunwalker 2 months ago
@6gunwalker You said "the boxing day tsunami is just one of many more disasters that will happen... jesus already foretold these titanic events..."
Sir, the "end of the world" was allegedly going to occur before all of Jesus' contemporaries died. It has since been predicted over and over and over again. The last time was what....March 21, 2011...and, again, it didn't happen.
CynicalSkeptic1 2 months ago
@CynicalSkeptic1 ummm lol i dont know what book from the bible your referring to with these dates but i can GARANTEE you jesus did not quote these dates... the people who are making these claims are nothing short of cult figures who jesus even warned us about "be careful in those days of people who go around saying i am god" alot of false prophets are deceiving people.. jesus only says "no one knows the day nor the hour, not even me so prepare".. those r his words.
6gunwalker 2 months ago
@6gunwalker" i can GARANTEE" lol. In caps even. Did you sound that out. hehe
hicks727 2 months ago
@hicks727 sorry i didnt know this was a literacy test and i was being marked by professor hicks727 the spelling bee champion lol
6gunwalker 2 months ago
@CynicalSkeptic1 There's absolutely no evidence that emotional antipathy towards God causes a rational objective reason for His non-existence.
maxavail 1 month ago
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@maxavail You said "There's absolutely no evidence that emotional antipathy towards God causes a rational objective reason for His non-existence."
What you apparently misconstrued as "emotional antipathy towards God" was actually just an analogy demonstrating the utter absurdity of religious belief. We need only refer to the theory of evolution to disprove the biblical god.
Evolution = No Creation = No original sin = No need for Yahweh/Jesus' malodorous cloud of self-sacrificing effluvium
CynicalSkeptic1 1 month ago
@CynicalSkeptic1 Yup, its simply a confirmation bias
MuseKook 1 month ago
@CynicalSkeptic1
"On a side note, where is the tremendous sacrifice from Yahweh/Jesus if he gets crucified only to rise from the dead three days later and go to heaven?"
He did not merely die for us - He paid the price which we should pay for our sins. He experienced hell for us - literally. Every punishment for every sin of every man and woman, Jesus received instead of us. That is the tremendous display of unconditional love which Christ did for us.
jagarf 2 months ago
@jagarf " He paid the price which we should pay for our sins. " And how exactly did we get into the position to have sins? Ohh yeah that's right your god created the circumstances knowing ( cause he is al knowing ) that we would eat the apple of knowledge( god for bid ( excuse the pun )we should have knowledge)
emailpobox666 2 months ago
@jagarf An omnipotent entity wouldn't have "divinely inspired" an ancient text with so many unbelievable stories and expect present day man to believe without this ABSOLUTE PROOF. These stories about talking donkeys and foliage and women turning into salt and men living in whale bellies for three days...science has disproven much of the Bible and these appear to be ancient myths.
Evolution disproves Creation = No original sin = No need for Yahweh/Jesus to sacrifice himself to himself.
CynicalSkeptic1 2 months ago
@CynicalSkeptic1 Or Jesus never even existed and it is a modified folk tale. The only writings that tell of Jesus come at least 70 years after his death. Not a single government document of his being crucified, arrested, or the dead walking all over town... nothing. The Jesus story has an uncanny similarity to Mithra, Horus and other earlier religious tales. The Josephus writings were third hand, much later and most historians believe were forged in large part.
ultim4t32 2 months ago
@ultim4t32 Yes, I am aware that history appears to have forgotten the existence of "Jesus of Nazareth" outside of the Bible. I was simply reflecting on the absurdity of WLC's attempt to rationalize the biblical resurrection. There are so many reasons NOT to believe in organized religion. I lost my faith even before I found out about the validity of evolution...which is a very large nail in the coffin for "Creation".
CynicalSkeptic1 2 months ago
The title is a bit redundant, don't you think?
Dethenger 2 months ago
Alternatively, Jesus ( Issa ) was a Buddhist, he survived crucifixion, and went to live the rest of his days in Kashmir. Just tap in Issa and India, or Kashmir, see what pops up
daverigby23 2 months ago
"I can think of no better explanation,"...because he gets paid not to think of any better explanation.
punnet2 2 months ago 23
@punnet2 True.. and this intellectual laziness pisses me off..! ..oh & p.s. i am ready to mark any ICR-article-spouting comment/message as spam. :D
bronzmash 2 months ago
In the judgment of contemporary scholarship, Jesus actually never existed as a real person at all, and neither Nazareth nor Bethlehem existed around the year 0. In addition, it's highly likely that the Apostle Paul is more than likely nothing more than a literary antithesis to Simon Magus. When we stop apologizing for myths, maybe we can get on with the business of discovering reality.
ProjectFreeSelf 2 months ago
Biblical debate always take place within the context of a science book and never the Bible. Why? Because the Bible says you aren't supposed to "test" God, you are only supposed to "prove" God. Why? How else are you supposed to steal 10% of someone's check and sell their daughters into slavery. Jeezus!!.. You people are stupid. Stop debating used car salesman about whether or not you should buy their junky car vs. walking 30 ft. across the street to your physics class.
MrHarvardGuy 3 months ago
Don't actually see anything objectionable in what WLC's saying here. His point seems to be:
If you take the discipline of historical research seriously, you can't just say, 'Magic done it', when stuck for a reasonable, naturalistic explanation of a past event. However, if you just disregard the discipline, you can freely appeal to magic as much as you like.
Fair enough, Dr. Craig. Just don't expect anyone to take your opinions on historical events seriously.
MrBillyconcarne 3 months ago
Where was this debate ?
parsonman05 3 months ago
Statements like these should just disqualify William Lane Craig from being taken seriously by anybody.
Anomalous59 3 months ago
craig... expert in the unknowable!
bearwoodcarpentry 3 months ago
Craig is seriously a douche, he calls Richard Dawkins a coward, whereas he always cower away from defending the obvious nonsense in the bible, god calling for genocide, slavery and how all other religious ppl & atheists are going to burn FOREVER (playing tennis without a net). Whereas Dawkins on the other hand, as debated a lot more ppl and had his say about almost all the things about the issue.
DoubterApe 3 months ago
This was disappointing, I've seen him be much, much douchier than this... look up his debate with Christopher Hitchens for example.
ThatDanmGuy 3 months ago
@ThatDanmGuy Ohh! It was so bad with the Hitchmiester. Hitch was a bit drunk, i guess.. and this loud piece of cunt just kept on babbling about objective/subjective morality, and 'doody' towards 'Gaad'. Pathetic.
bronzmash 3 months ago
@bronzmash I don't recall Hitchens seeming drunk, though I do remember him being a bit sweaty that evening. It was just infuriating when WLC repeatedly claimed victory solely on the grounds that Hitchens did not provide evidence of the impossibility of the existence of a generic god, flat-out refusing to accept corrections to his definition of atheism as a belief rather than a rejection and implicitly insulting Hitchens for not adhering to his definition.
ThatDanmGuy 3 months ago
@ThatDanmGuy ..i'm not sure. I assume that he was drunk. True, i hated WLC for being loud and repetitive. He's such a douche..
bronzmash 3 months ago
@bronzmash =
Actually, YOU are the only pathetic one here. At least Craig can speak like an adult, not an 8 year-old who's heard his friends cuss, and thinks it's "cool".
Grow up, moron
tigerlilly66 3 months ago
@tigerlilly66
See..!? This is what proponents of Science do - they research. So, your profile says: "Redeemed and regenerated by the manifold grace of God through the shed blood of the Lamb of God, Jesus Christ. To him be all praise and honor!"
- No wonder you find the gibberish of Lane-Craig so attractive. You're deluded..
You also state, that you're a: "Vietnam-era veteran (US Army) 12 years
13A10 - Field Artillery, 105mm towed" - so i'll kindly reject your advice of "Grow up, moron"
bronzmash 3 months ago
@bronzmash =
By all means, have it YOUR way!
What does my Army service have to do with WLC, or are you just taking ad hoc potshots and in no particular order? Notice I didn't have to throw an "F-bomb" in order to say this?
Real science is not in conflict with the Bible, but since YOU already have all the answers, I'm sure this means nothing.
Hooah !
tigerlilly66 3 months ago
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@tigerlilly66 ..no, your background in Army has nothing to do with WLC, it's the age-factor.. which you misread, i referred to it for you saying "grow up, moron" - which, though not an f-bomb, is an ad-hominem attack. If i was to do the same; is that how you fought in the army? Calling ppl morons and asking'em to grow up..!? Seriously..??
"Real science is not in conflict with the Bible"
- You're so full of Bible (shit) that you can't even see its flaws. Too bad.
Umm.. 'hooah'..?! :D
bronzmash 3 months ago
@tigerlilly66 ..rejoinder.
.
It is actually MY way.. your belief of the Bible being inerrant is based on circular faith; you think that the Bible is right because the Bible said so. The Bible and other such supposedly holy books are full of incorrect accounts of how life began, how the earth looks, and how old it is. It is filled with support for barbaric practices.. it is, like any other work of fiction, a 'Work of FICTION'.
Too bad that a book with so many fallacies is a best-seller.
bronzmash 3 months ago
@bronzmash =
Too bad a book that answers the honest questions of life that YOU have no explanation for is rejected out of hand because YOU have decided it is "fiction". How fortunate we are to have YOU standing guard! Millions who have trusted this book and found it to be 100% authentic, reliable, and comforting say you're a bald-faced LIAR, as does the God who wrote it. Free will permits you to reject anything you choose...thankfully, it applies only to YOUR warped world view.
tigerlilly66 3 months ago
@tigerlilly66
..that homosexuality enrages God. You're a serf, a mindless zealot for the cause of the delusion but a zombie to reality. You can only serve the fiction called God because your sense of self has been hijacked by faith.. your sense of reality is warped by dogma, your sense of truth has been corrupted by a Book that touts itself as the word of God.
You're a good example of how toxic religion really is to human thought and progress.
bronzmash 3 months ago
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bronzmash 3 months ago
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bronzmash 3 months ago
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@tigerlilly66
..that allows your will-power to drop away from truth and start to think that fossil-evidence is put where it is, by God, to test faith.. that the earth is 6K yrs old (and possibly flat), that Jews are to be detested, that genital-mutilation of children is God's will,
bronzmash 3 months ago
@tigerlilly66
..You're so circularly caught up in the cesspool of this religion crap that you can't even look upwards. You're beyond emancipation from the lunacy of religion..
4. "Free will permits you to reject anything you choose...thankfully, it applies only to YOUR warped world view."
- We do not have a choice with free-will. Neurobiology proves that. It is your God-delusion (Dawkins put it so precisely),
bronzmash 3 months ago
@tigerlilly66
..How the hell do you know that your book is 100% authentic.. by eye-witness accounts in the Book..?! How is it reliable..? Because the Book says so..? Why is it comforting? Because it is less hard work than trying to search for, analyzing and understanding reality, to actually believe in a (narcissistic) sky-daddy who's worried about whether you believe in him..!?
bronzmash 3 months ago
@tigerlilly66
3. "Millions who have trusted this book and found it to be 100% authentic, reliable, and comforting say you're a bald-faced LIAR, as does the God who wrote it."
- You see the problem there, don't you..!?
You (and the other deluded millions) will call me a liar based on a Book..! ..a book that they 'have faith in'..! This is the problem with blind faith - you're so myopic now that you think that you know what your God (who wrote the book, really?!) thinks.
bronzmash 3 months ago
@tigerlilly66
..the evangelists who want you to convert to their 'faith' in return for a better 'afterlife..! ..i mean, seriously..? "Afterlife"..?!? Are you that insecure that you can't take responsibility for your actions, and end up feeling the need for redemption via a man in an elaborate costume sitting behind a screen.. a man who's just another human being..? That's so ludicrous and pathetic.
bronzmash 3 months ago
@tigerlilly66
..Anyone should be offended by having to listen to a 2000yr. old book preached by an ill-qualified man while you sit at the pews and call it 'truth'. I have not decided without reasoning, that the Bible is a magnificent work of fiction.
2. "How fortunate we are to have YOU standing guard!"
- You are. It is lucky for the world that there are ppl who question homophobic, war-mongering, dogma-believing, elitist, left-wing nutbags..
bronzmash 3 months ago
@bronzmash = I must assume you are used to simply overwhelming the oppostion by sheer volume of your ascerbic comments. Sorry, but reverting to the tried and true tool of atheism, eg, character assassination, isn't worthy of a rebuttle.
You reject a book that by your own admission has endured 2000 years (actually, it is closer to 4500), yet I'm to believe that your years on earth numbering less than 50 qualify you to be judge, jury, and executioner of Christianity? THAT'S chutzpah!
tigerlilly66 3 months ago
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bronzmash 3 months ago
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@tigerlilly66
The difference alone is greater than your first figure, get a clue! Your claims of an inerrant book is as funny as this 2000yr. 4500yr fiasco and all Muslims claiming the Koran as the exclusive word of the only God..!
And in the past 50yrs. human knowledge has grown sufficiently to deem this audacity - just a statement of confidence.. thank you! So try digesting the arguments your opponent presents, however loquacious.
bronzmash 3 months ago
@tigerlilly66
Homer's 'Illiad' and 'Odyssey' have survived longer - doen't mean it's the truth! Actually, it is more smart to say, that as human civilization advances, the newer the books are, the more factual they will be.. and in that game, the Koran beats you hands down. Plus, according to them, you're a 'Kaffir' (a non-believer) and that you're going straight to hell (Yepp! No virgins for you buddy!) Plus, you say "it's endured 2000yrs" and then "actually, it is closer to 4500" - seriously!?
bronzmash 3 months ago
@bronzmash = How interesting you would cite Homer as evidence to support your position...
The Iliad & Odyssey was written in approximately 900BC. The earliest known manuscript for it is from around 400BC...some 500 years. There are about 600 known surviving manuscripts for it. The New Testament was written from about 40-100AD, the oldest copy dating from around 125AD. Do the math. There are around 24,000 surviving manuscripts in support of the NT. What's that you say about evidence?
tigerlilly66 3 months ago
@tigerlilly66
Oh my - you're cherry picking!.. cool..!! :D
I say you should look at > j.mp / sxUDJQ < (without the spaces). It'll tell you the science of religiosity. And seriously?!.. all you got from what i said was Homer..?? Even this evidence holds - now reply to the rest.. if you have any logical way to do so, that is.
..way to deflect..!
bronzmash 3 months ago
@bronzmash - Sorry, but your "cherry picking" reply may as well have been in Chinese, because it made about as much sense to me.
So when documented history suits you, as in YOUR citing of Homer, it is righteous. When morons like me cite the SAME source, it is now uneducated. Just as I knew you would, you completely miss the pont of my reply...it is dishonest to use one set of rules for establishing the Bible's authenticity, yet a different set for "secular" literature.
tigerlilly66 2 months ago
@tigerlilly66 ..if it made little sense to you, please blame it on your faculties.. & maybe read again. As for Homer - what 'different set' of rules are you talkin'bout..!? Homer's work is fiction too - absolutely so..! So is the Bible, just by surviving times, a book does not become authentic in its claim, otherwise Homer's work could be considered real too. If you understand this now, you'll surely see no discrepancy in secular judgment.
You thought i missed you point.. you're wrong. All over.
bronzmash 2 months ago
@tigerlilly66
..yes, i can, because i come from and with information.
Anyway, my comments are 'acerbic' when i am countering stupidity alone. You say "Sorry, ..(xyz) isn't worthy of rebuttal."; i agree - the tried and tested tool of theists is to run away from logic. And you just did that..! I acknowledge (not admit) that this book has survived 2000yrs. but that isn't the test of a book's credibility..!
bronzmash 3 months ago
@tigerlilly66 Just because a book has endured thousands of years doesn't mean it is a true account of anything. Homer's works are great stories but no one prays to the Greek gods today due to those stories now do they. Just like Homer's works the bible has some real world history thrown into it mixed with friction. Craig is a con man making money off the idiots that believe his BS. he makes it sound cool but it is still BS
Xatasha6611 2 months ago
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@tigerlilly66
1. "Too bad a book that answers the honest questions of life.."
- You're wrong, the question is honest.. yes. But this book answers it to the best of only YOUR satisfaction. Science answers questions with empirical evidence and does not ask you to resort to 'faith'. I mean, it is so denigrating to have to "believe" the truth rather than to be able to test it, feel it, and understand & question it.
bronzmash 3 months ago
how is he being a douche?
CHARLIE10SHERRARD 3 months ago
People disagree with me:
But in their heart they want to agree.
Right, so now, every argument is irrelevant.
Also, I thought Jesus was god and therefor eternal. So raising him from the dead.... how is that a miracle? Reviving something that can never die?
Fr1tz3l 3 months ago
@Fr1tz3l
"I thought Jesus was god and therefor eternal. So raising him from the dead.... how is that a miracle? Reviving something that can never die?"
- Do you see the flaw in that..? ..you THOUGHT that Jesus was god and _thus_ 'eternal'. How many assumptions did you make? You may say that it says so in the Bible - but that way you'll be resorting to the book to prove the book (circular reasoning). Before asking whether we can revive something that can't die, see if there is something such.
bronzmash 3 months ago
@bronzmash Eh? Holy Trinity? Father, Son and the Holy ghost. All are said to be god and god is eternal.
Also you might have not picked up on my sarcasm ;-)
Fr1tz3l 3 months ago
@Fr1tz3l Mea culpa..! :D
..i concede. :P ..obviously, i was debating a logic greater than mine, a power that is a higher power. Damn!
bronzmash 3 months ago
@bronzmash N.P. and wow someone conceding a mistake, what happened to my internet?
I just try to use sarcasm to show what a silly argument this guy is putting forward but I agree my writing was a bit silly.
I also saw this other vid of him where he said that it doesn't matter that it(saying he doesn't need a creator) is special reasoning for gods existence because(paraphrase) '' They(Atheist) do it to!''
Fr1tz3l 3 months ago
@Fr1tz3l
:D Dr. Lane Craig, as attested in the top-comment, is truly a bullshit artist..! And unlike him, we're all rational e'nuf to know that we can make mistakes.. so, your internet's fine!
bronzmash 3 months ago
@Fr1tz3l =
You mean "someone"? You're missing the whole point of the Incarnation, pal - it means to "put on flesh". Jesus had skin, bone, and blood just like any OTHER man. How else would God be able to be seen, touched, and experienced by humankind? That was his sole purpose, thus the Resurrection was very necessary and very unique to Him.
Check out John 10:17-18 and see who it was that raised Jesus from the dead! Either Jesus was God, or he was a self-deceived liar and lunatic!
tigerlilly66 2 months ago
@tigerlilly66
"Either Jesus was God, or he was a self-deceived liar and lunatic!"
- The closest you've come to the truth yet.. no really! (Hint: It's the later..!)
bronzmash 2 months ago
@bronzmash =
Well, there we have it. Thou hast spoken, and who can compare to your intellect, perception, and open-mindedness? I'm in awe!
I take your "hint" to be the "later"...as in "see you later"?
Excellent idea. See you at the Judgment !
tigerlilly66 2 months ago
@tigerlilly66 ..that brings us then to the second step! Yes.. see you later. :D
..you gotta be kidding me'bout Judgment Day tho'.. right?? I mean you really thi.. omigawd! YOU DO!! Very 'open-minded' of you as well.. actually so open-minded you are Sir, that your brains fell off.
But seriously, your reply's a rhetoric; you're skirting the issue. That's very biblical of you anyway - i mean, afterall, you DO learn from the book. My advice: stop living the life of a serf.. see the glory of science.
bronzmash 2 months ago
@tigerlilly66 If thought the sole reason was to die for our sins?
'Either Jesus was God, or he was a self-deceived liar and lunatic!'
I think you can guess the answer!
Fr1tz3l 2 months ago
@Fr1tz3l = No, I don't have to guess what the answer is. It is pretty obvious what I believe. I already answered your question, man! My perception is based on sound, solid evidence, numerous eyewitness accounts of the life of Jesus, the veracity, historicty, preservation of both the Old and New Testaments, validation by archaeology, and BEST of all, the faith given me by the only God there is to believe it. Yes, I believe it by faith, just as YOU and the brilliant bronzmash also do!
tigerlilly66 2 months ago
@tigerlilly66 I believe what exactly by faith?
Also: Preservation of testament, validation by archaeology etc. all those things you list apply to a hundred god theories. Nothing special
Fr1tz3l 2 months ago
@Fr1tz3l =
Oh really? Give me one confirmed archaeological discovery that supports Hinduism, Buddhism, or any other "ism" you care to select (if there are any) and I'll document 50 that back up biblical claims.
Since neither of us were around at the foundation of the universe, what we believe is dependent upon our faith in whatever it is that we tells us the truth about this issue. I choose to believe the Bible, you choose what YOU want to believe. Not complicated t all...
tigerlilly66 2 months ago
@tigerlilly66 Go ahead and present your bible proof. It will be interesting to see you fail.
MewCat100 2 months ago
@MewCat100 = Perhaps you haven't followed all the rantings of bronzmash, Fr1tz31, and a few others, so I'll give you the benefit of any doubts I may have and ask you the same question I asked them. They all said an emphatic "NO" in one form or another...
You ask me to present my biblical evidence. So far - so good, but then you state it will be "interesting" to see me "fail". Now I get the distinct impression that you are NOT of an objective mind in the least, just like your pals!
tigerlilly66 2 months ago