I must say again that your idea about this "rocket" style nozzle for heat. Indeed, praise the Higher Power (a.k.a. God Almighty) for this invention. Some people don't seem to realize the implications of this ability to have less heat do a great deal. Thank you.
I say this after preaching for 10+ years and in lieu of the slow car sticker moment, part time labels on clothes, say so, THE BOX, Future consciousness "thief" detection unit,, contact me, and publish on trans cans too.
in the very beginning of mankind, can anyone explain how we knew of a metal in rocks? and what did they use before there was IRON BARS or anvils or axes that cut trees into noahs ark? did they let the iron flow onto a wooden stick or a long bone until it cooled and used it as the first HAMMER TO bang out the next flow of iron into a rod? or was a rocks the hammer and anvil? I want to know!!!!
Looks like a lot of hard, dirty work. But at the end of the process when you finally finish the last bit of grinding and polishing on your totally home-made knife it must be satisfying. Great vid.
I really want to do this. I've been obsessed with the art of making iron since I read about bloomeries and foundries as a kid. Sadly Florida isnt an iron bearing state. I have no source for iron ore or I would certainly give this a try.
so if i understand right you layer the charcoal, the charcoal powder and scrap iron in the shown way and thats how you end up with steel at the bottom from all of the massive temperatures?
basically everything is being destroyed and what you are left with is ash and steel?
@dramey03 Only charcoal (chunks about 1 inch cube) and iron ore powder are going in the top. No "scrap iron", that would be a grappage furnace, and is used for different things and has a different design. This technique is very specific to getting Japanese-style steel bloom at the end.
A TURBULENCE as in a "rocket nozzle" : absolutely brilliant!
(I speak in addition to the slow vehicle movement, part t. and no hard schedules, The Box club, publishing on waste receptacles and cans with saying such at stores). AGA9N, BRILLIANT.... PTL Almighty for you on this!
I'm still a little confused about how you got the steel, layers of charcoal and powder, what is this powder? Also, where does the dirt come in? Is the dirt the powder?
@mynameismatt2010 It is the orange heavy rock you can pick up along river bed. you bake them then crush them into powder. The rusty orange rock is also known as hematite.
@mynameismatt2010 I agree with this. Maybe some labeling would be nice. Was it Iron powder going in through the top with charcoal? I have no metal working experience so I apoligize if it is a stupid question. but I found this video interesting and would like to know more about it
well... the patterns in a damasc-like forged blade isn't just a happy incident without any use, the different layers with molecular structures going in different directions gives far more flexible, resilient and strong blades than any ordinary steel. yes it also help the estetics, but damasc blades didnt't only get known for their appearance, but also performance.. just saying...
@Rhandahl That's kinda what he was saying. He was explaining that the folding process isn't just to make it look better, it actually has a funtional purpose.
OMG....I was watching this vid and my daughter saw it and had questions...so I grabbed a speaker magnet and took her outside and pulled about a teaspoon of metal from the earth including some pieces that looked like your blooms...now I have a question....can I use this metal after it touching a magnet?....really excited..didnt expect that much here in Michigan from the sandy soil.
As you mentioned with your 10 year estimate, modern weapons could become a thing of the past. BUT... once you have steel you have tools and from there it is just having the technology. Shot guns could be converted to flintlocks, lead could be scrounged for shot or just use 00 sized river pebbles. A supply of primers would be the big problem for modern weaponry.
Thanks for the video man! I'm trying to make some tamahagane out of black sands I collected from rivers in Ohio for small blades. I think this will do the trick!
@inkva I believe you can just get the black sands you need from rivers and streams. look up gold panning. black sands are usually a secondary product of gold panning and may be collected or purchased from prospectors.
@bae313 most important comment on this whole page. if the world ended and the survivors of the previous world had no knowledge of this kind of thing they would not survive. the resources left over from the previous world would diminish quickly ammunition food and materials would disappear within a few decades. I would totally start a community and just jump straight to sword and blade making. Skip the guns unless we learn how to make black powder.
@mandyNdave You would simply contaminate the steel with copper, which is not desireable. It can either embrittle or soften steel, neither of which is something you want in a blade of any kind.
@tidewaterforge How exactaly did you make the forge, and how much would a block of that home made tamahagane go for? i would imagine somewhere around a grand or so. Give or take a few bucks.
@tidewaterforge How exactly did you make the forge, and how much would a block of that home made tamahagane go for? i would imagine somewhere around a grand or so. Give or take a few bucks.
If you're anywhere near Baltimore, this technique along with a couple others for steelmaking will be demonstrated at Baltimore Knife & Sword in late march. They have info on their webpage.
How in nature here in my location could I find the necessary sand to begin this process? I want to go about this all natural, but obviously I dont have a mine to enter to gather iron sand. I have read other post before asking this question, but wonder if my geographical location would become a problem for me to maybe do this on my own. "I have all the will", but need a way!
I'm not aware of any good, natural sources of iron ore in Texas. The easiest way for you to start is to find a pottery store that sells Hematite - they use it as a glaze - it's just iron oxide, which is all the iron sand really is, just different amounts of Fe and O. Good luck.
@CodyOebel If you're near any creeks you can pan for it just like for gold. Its the heaviest thing in the sand so you have to dig deep around rocks and stuff...pan it and the black stuff that's last to pour out has a lot of iron in it. Its everywhere. Supposedly its from space dust.
This makes me want to build a furnace next to my home made forge :). Thanks for the video and team of experts taking their time to put together this project. I really enjoyed watching it, and took a great deal of education from it. On hand sight, I personally want to make my own carbon steel for a true neo tribal metal smithing project. Ive been making 5160 knives with no power tools, but want to take it a step further.
I live in San Antonio, Texas. It's clay mostly here. How in - continued
I really like this video I will definitely be talking with you. I just posted a hand forged 5160 bowie in which I made all by hand and no power tools. (I follow the neo-tribal metal smith style of blade smithing), and how to make my own steel follows this catagory.
Check my video if any of you want to see me hacking a 2x4 in half with the hammer forged bowie I made, and then I shave my leg with it.
@tidewaterforge Ya, of course - the way of making steel is approximately the same - except - japanese makers - they make best swords in the world and best razors in the world - and can you make same quality steel of this raw steel? I daubt..
The Japanese, of course, have been doing this a lot longer. There are US makers who can match that quality - I'm not one of them, but some of the guys in this video are. This is all a learning process, for everyone.
@radiantrey A japanese blade or katana,isn't forged once, but many times. it is constantly forged, folded and reforged. So he could, he just needs to constantly re-forge, fold and add to the initial blade.
@radiantrey these steels are obtained after refining dude. this stack is awesome.of course afterwards these awesome guys can decide to make another furnace for further refining and composition re-adjustment
The larger the furnace, the longer it may be run. For the backyard smelter, it's pretty much an all-day process. At some point the furnace usually breaks down, you run out of charcoal or ore, or you just get tired of feeding it.
This is just my guess, but It seems to me that if it was around 95% iron, and the bloom was around 65 lbs, assuming there was quite a bit lost for some reason or another, is 80 lbs anywhere close?
@MizuPsi Yield from any charcoal smelter tops out about 50% on a good day. Also, there was less than 50 pounds of actual finished metal at the end of it, so I would guess that between 100-120 pounds of ore was used that day.
@MizuPsi This is not a cheap way to make steel. And yes, one could alloy it, but the whole point is to create a clean, alloy-free material that resembles as closely as possible the ancient stuff. Alloy steel is readily available for cheap from a multitude of sources.
@uscorg Fill the furnace up with charcoal first, get it up to operating temperature, then as the charcoal starts being consumed, layer in ore, then charcoal, then more ore, etc., for the duration of the smelt.
@RockingOrange11 Any iron mine, some beaches and rivers downstream from large magnetite deposits, or occasionally pre-packaged (hematite glaze, for pottery).
@pyrea17 Possible, but not very practical. Several of us have experimented with that - most of the bricks above the hot zone are re-usable, so it's not that bad.
@RockingOrange11 Clearly you've not really watched the video - layering in iron ore with charcoal results in a "bloom" of high carbon material, which then needs to be consolidated into bar form before any forging can be done.
I enjoyed this video and recommended it to my students when studying the Blast Furnace at GCSE. (UK 14 to 16) You seem to be a group of erudite enthusiasts and I suspect archaeoligists. Do you have by chance a good video clip of a more modern Blast furnace
@mrikerrigan I think most of us might consider the term "experimental archaeologist" appropriate, though we do have one full time member of our group in that field in east Tennessee. The rest of us simply have a passion for old material, and learning how to make it is the only way to replicate the character and chemistry of ancient examples.
@Armstrong202 Yes, steel made this way needs to be folded and cleaned many times before it's suitable for making any blade with. As Dr. Blue says in the video, it creates the patterns, but they are a byproduct of the steel-making process.
@pyrea17 "cleaning" in this case, by folding up the raw material over and over - the non-iron components will work themselves out of the material, leaving steel with some silica, not unlike wrought iron, but hardenable.
@jackdog20 As Dr. Blue states, it's time at temperature. That can be manipulated by furnace geometry, stack height, rate of burn, and overall internal temperature.
@age54321 This smelt used crushed Taconite pellets, which are mostly pure magnetite with a little clay. Hematite can also be used, and is available at pottery supply - they use it as a red glaze. But not in this video.
The ore (hematite, magnetite, etc.) is what contains the iron. To smelt it is to remove the oxygen and some of the other impurities in the fire by burning charcoal. We all just use regular "lump charcoal", not briquettes.
Purification comes by folding the material several times to remove silica, charcoal, and to even out the carbon content. This is what gives the stell its layers, but that's just part of the cleaning process.
@noir0222 Yep, except there are 3 Ph.D's in that crowd, and several Masters holders, who simply enjoy experimental archaeology and don't feel the need to overdress for the event. ;)
@noir0222 PHD in metalurgy? There's a bachelors and masters program in metal smithing down in southern illinois. Do you think it'd be more worthwhile to undertake this program, or to become an apprentice? This is a serious question.
@nivenheim I think I've said it before, but you can use the red hematite sold at pottery supply for glaze as an ore - it works fine. Check out Don Fogg's bladesmithing forum for more on education, books, and a great community involved in this sort of stuff.
@nivenheim Only if you clean and seperate the ore from everything else. Yes, the red comes from hematite, but that isn't the only thing in it - you want as pure a product going in as you can, or else you'll just end up with a bunch of slag as the non-iron component of your dirt melts into glass. Excessive slag is bad, too, because it scavanges some of your iron away from the bloom. I would look for a more refined product to start with, or find a way to refine the iron in your material.
If you listen to Dr. Blue in the video, it's a function of the time at temperature. By making the stack taller than a traditional viking or roman stack furnace, it allows carbon to enter the material as it percolates downward, creating steel vs. iron. Yes, it's in bloom form, but it's already carburized and hardenable.
i listened! :D i listed about 5 times actually, he didn't say it was taller, he said it was different.
but your answer fills in the blanks fine. so thanks for that. it seems to me your walking a fine line between making steel and pig iron. would that be why i've seen so many vids of japanese smiths overheating their blades which would decarburise the steel somewhat?
anyway thanks for the upload, it's really interesting stuff. :)
I read that the Japanese traditionally used magnetite.. the "black sand" that you can pan out of river sand. Gold panners know what it is. If you put some dirt on a paper and move a magnet around underneath the paper, the magnetite will link up into hairlike projections that move with the magnet. Might as well get rid of as much of the dross as possible before burning up all that good charcoal. You could harvest a lot of magnetite with a magnet.
Indeed, the ore used in this clip was magnetite, though not from the beds of Japanese rivers... but chemically very much the same. I prefer it, because there is less oxygen bound to the the iron than hematite or any other -ite's, but the end product is as much a function of how the furnace is run, as the starting ore of choice
High-temperature bricks - usually made of silica, a little cement, and some insulator. I've made them using vermiculite mixed with white sand and a bit of portland.
ok, i am going to try so explain this using the best of my knowledge. Dirt is full of silica, carbon, and different metal oxides or as it is commonly called rust. as everything is heated valence electrons become very excited and their kinetic energy approaches levels high enough to break their bonds and in this state oxygen bonds with carbon so the iron oxide reduces back to iron more or less and any iron ore also joins the bloom and silicates coalesce into glass
just think of it as combining iron powder with charcoal in a furnace. the charcoal holds carbon and the iron ore that is usually found in japan holds less chemicals like sulfur and phospherus which makes steel brittle. this steal is called tamahagane. it is what they originally used to make samurai katana in japan. most katana today are not made from tamahagane cause its expensive and hard to make.
no its like if you make a fire and you see all the coals of the burned wood you know the little glowing chunks you just spread those out and let them cool and go out and put them in safe place (they spontaneously combust). i'm not that great at explaining this look at purgatoryironworks videos.
how much does the magnetite cost per pound, and how much did north shore require you to purchase(ie was there a minimum purchase), is there any particular charcoal you prefer? both for furnace and forging
It is the only way to get steel of the same chemistry and character as the authentic Japanese steel used in Katana. You can't simply buy the stuff... if you want it, you have to make it.
??... no, the Viking stack furnace for ironmaking was very similar to this, but a shorter tube. Weapons were then forged like anything else, in a charcoal fire. I reccomend reading William Short's book, Viking Weapons & Compat Techniques for more information on that.
what does the powder start out as? from what i understand from his illustrations, it is the iron powder that will eventually drip into a large chunk at the bottom. Is that right?
I have no understanding of this process so if my question seems uninformed well it is... thanks for any help that can be offered.
In this case, it is iron magnetite from Minnesota... very pure, about 95% pure ore. The iron sand used in Japan is basically the same stuff, but instead of being mined from underground it is weathered from the hills and ends up as deposits in sand in the rivers. At the end of the day it's all chemically the same, Magnetite... just variations on what it's mixed up with.
great vids man! you inspire me to work for a living as a blacksmith is it possible to? haven't seen any schools that accept blacksmithing as a profession in today's Modern Society.
I must say again that your idea about this "rocket" style nozzle for heat. Indeed, praise the Higher Power (a.k.a. God Almighty) for this invention. Some people don't seem to realize the implications of this ability to have less heat do a great deal. Thank you.
I say this after preaching for 10+ years and in lieu of the slow car sticker moment, part time labels on clothes, say so, THE BOX, Future consciousness "thief" detection unit,, contact me, and publish on trans cans too.
shiftgood1 1 day ago
does it absolutely have to be iron ore powder or would the shavings from machining brake drums/rotors suffice?
vettefan73 2 days ago in playlist Steel Making
So badass. I've always wanted to learn the depths of metalworking, forging in particular. I hope I get to try this out one day.
INvalidSYNapse 1 week ago
Are there any books or publications that have plans or describe the process in more detail?
ethunderburdman 1 week ago in playlist Self reliance
All steel is is iron ore and coke.
The charcoal serves the same purpose.
While this is not surgical steel by any means it is steel,
Thanks for uploading.
Any videos of projects made from this steel?
MrJohanasBilderberg 3 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
in the very beginning of mankind, can anyone explain how we knew of a metal in rocks? and what did they use before there was IRON BARS or anvils or axes that cut trees into noahs ark? did they let the iron flow onto a wooden stick or a long bone until it cooled and used it as the first HAMMER TO bang out the next flow of iron into a rod? or was a rocks the hammer and anvil? I want to know!!!!
mas2ery 3 weeks ago
hi there, do you have instructions on how to construct on of these? also would iron sand work in one of these forges?
Turel12399 3 weeks ago
Rostfreier Stahl ? ? ?
TAPICTURES 3 weeks ago
NOT MAKING STEEL FROM DIRT... wtf you say that for? its iron from iron ore. Poor quality iron at that. Wanna reinvent the wheel next?
1overthehillsfaraway 1 month ago
How long did it take to create that chunk? How much material cool sand and one last thing coast...?
camaroguy2919 1 month ago
Looks like a lot of hard, dirty work. But at the end of the process when you finally finish the last bit of grinding and polishing on your totally home-made knife it must be satisfying. Great vid.
mogar 2 months ago
I really want to do this. I've been obsessed with the art of making iron since I read about bloomeries and foundries as a kid. Sadly Florida isnt an iron bearing state. I have no source for iron ore or I would certainly give this a try.
BrimstoneMerc 2 months ago
so if i understand right you layer the charcoal, the charcoal powder and scrap iron in the shown way and thats how you end up with steel at the bottom from all of the massive temperatures?
basically everything is being destroyed and what you are left with is ash and steel?
dramey03 2 months ago
@dramey03 Only charcoal (chunks about 1 inch cube) and iron ore powder are going in the top. No "scrap iron", that would be a grappage furnace, and is used for different things and has a different design. This technique is very specific to getting Japanese-style steel bloom at the end.
tidewaterforge 2 months ago
not bad after 10 36 cases of beer and 5 25 foot tall trees in charcoal
roge715 2 months ago
man that's like alchemist stuff
malevolenceXXXensues 2 months ago
what powder do you use
TheWormglow 3 months ago
is charcoal better than coal? i think i once read somewhere it has more carbon than coal
music1account 3 months ago
@music1account charcoal burns at intense temperatures, up to 2700C, or 4900F. It also doesnt produce sulfur, which is why charcoal has been favored.
rich1051414 2 months ago
A TURBULENCE as in a "rocket nozzle" : absolutely brilliant!
(I speak in addition to the slow vehicle movement, part t. and no hard schedules, The Box club, publishing on waste receptacles and cans with saying such at stores). AGA9N, BRILLIANT.... PTL Almighty for you on this!
shiftgood1 3 months ago
I'm still a little confused about how you got the steel, layers of charcoal and powder, what is this powder? Also, where does the dirt come in? Is the dirt the powder?
mynameismatt2010 4 months ago
@mynameismatt2010 It is the orange heavy rock you can pick up along river bed. you bake them then crush them into powder. The rusty orange rock is also known as hematite.
chenk002 2 months ago
@mynameismatt2010 I agree with this. Maybe some labeling would be nice. Was it Iron powder going in through the top with charcoal? I have no metal working experience so I apoligize if it is a stupid question. but I found this video interesting and would like to know more about it
drizzitdude 1 month ago
well... the patterns in a damasc-like forged blade isn't just a happy incident without any use, the different layers with molecular structures going in different directions gives far more flexible, resilient and strong blades than any ordinary steel. yes it also help the estetics, but damasc blades didnt't only get known for their appearance, but also performance.. just saying...
Rhandahl 4 months ago
@Rhandahl That's kinda what he was saying. He was explaining that the folding process isn't just to make it look better, it actually has a funtional purpose.
mynameismatt2010 4 months ago
is that layer is iron ore? Can somebody please explain the layers? Hard to catch.Thanx.
halfmumi 4 months ago
Awesome video but that man's gut absolutely stole the show!
JonDeth 4 months ago
If men were given more things to build, there wouldn't be time for war.
Coelacanth1938 4 months ago
this is awesome. nothing like making something right from the beginning
njmvermont 5 months ago
HOw THE HELL DID I GET HERE i was watching fishing videos
s1debar2r0cks 5 months ago 2
OMG....I was watching this vid and my daughter saw it and had questions...so I grabbed a speaker magnet and took her outside and pulled about a teaspoon of metal from the earth including some pieces that looked like your blooms...now I have a question....can I use this metal after it touching a magnet?....really excited..didnt expect that much here in Michigan from the sandy soil.
offenwrong 5 months ago
"is it still molten in the middle"
Touch it, bitch, you tell me.
m3tz63r 5 months ago
@m3tz63r lol yeah i was waiting for the "its not quite like.. making cupcakes, dear..."
MrQualia 5 months ago
Nothing brings the men together like a huge lump of red hot steel. Cool video :D
TunedCavityLasers 6 months ago
How much is the steel? I want to make a sword and I am looking for some steel.
ConorC96 6 months ago
how much did all this cost to do? 500$-700$?
music1account 6 months ago
Good ol' cowboy brand charcoal...
kingolaf99 6 months ago
at 6:05 some guys taking a piss XD
thunderbolt997 7 months ago
lol spongebob
darksoulkey83 7 months ago
thumbs up if you play minecraft lol
Kovski56 7 months ago
nice
FailureVideo 7 months ago
wow, extracting iron from dirt:) minecraft would be easy like this!
andresderasfriend 8 months ago 20
@andresderasfriend Equivalent Exchange mod lets you do that :D
Cobble works too :P
Azereiah 3 months ago
should be like this in minecraft.
bogymann007 8 months ago
As you mentioned with your 10 year estimate, modern weapons could become a thing of the past. BUT... once you have steel you have tools and from there it is just having the technology. Shot guns could be converted to flintlocks, lead could be scrounged for shot or just use 00 sized river pebbles. A supply of primers would be the big problem for modern weaponry.
bae313 9 months ago
Thanks for the video man! I'm trying to make some tamahagane out of black sands I collected from rivers in Ohio for small blades. I think this will do the trick!
vulkein 9 months ago
What material did u use to build the forge? And where did u pick the dirt from?
inkva 9 months ago
@inkva I believe you can just get the black sands you need from rivers and streams. look up gold panning. black sands are usually a secondary product of gold panning and may be collected or purchased from prospectors.
vulkein 9 months ago
minecraft led me here...
CakeDuck112 9 months ago 52
@CakeDuck112 you mean, you mined your way here from minecraft.
MRBOOGEYMAN100 5 months ago
if you survive the 2012 phenomanon, you will wish you remembered the details of this vid.
bae313 10 months ago
@bae313 most important comment on this whole page. if the world ended and the survivors of the previous world had no knowledge of this kind of thing they would not survive. the resources left over from the previous world would diminish quickly ammunition food and materials would disappear within a few decades. I would totally start a community and just jump straight to sword and blade making. Skip the guns unless we learn how to make black powder.
vulkein 9 months ago
@vulkein black powder can be made from 3 relatively easy to find or produce elements.
bae313 9 months ago
@bae313 well good luck making bullets that will work with modern day weapons.
vulkein 9 months ago
I would like to know what all you would need for this procedure/ the equipment?
DeathGobblin 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
think you guys could give me the whole recipe for this project
DeathGobblin 10 months ago
Where do u guys get the charcoal u guys are using from
biglu2 10 months ago
Any chance on a link to a better diagram of the furnace you made for this? And what did you make the top part of the stack out of?
redsmerf 11 months ago
If you layer in a copper oxide would you get an alloy or would you get copper speckled throughout?
mandyNdave 11 months ago 3
@mandyNdave You would simply contaminate the steel with copper, which is not desireable. It can either embrittle or soften steel, neither of which is something you want in a blade of any kind.
tidewaterforge 11 months ago 9
@tidewaterforge How exactaly did you make the forge, and how much would a block of that home made tamahagane go for? i would imagine somewhere around a grand or so. Give or take a few bucks.
Theodore007911 8 months ago
@tidewaterforge How exactly did you make the forge, and how much would a block of that home made tamahagane go for? i would imagine somewhere around a grand or so. Give or take a few bucks.
Theodore007911 8 months ago
needs more iron sand
DreamerTrain 11 months ago
lol I'd never think smelting, smithing, casting etc. could be so interresting.
jaghatarkebab 11 months ago
thank you for the vid. thinkin of makeing forging a new hobby and this looks to be like somthing i'd have to try
ryderjoshryder 1 year ago
This was beautiful, I'd love to attend something like this. How small an a furnace like this be scaled down?
l3reak 1 year ago 2
@l3reak
If you're anywhere near Baltimore, this technique along with a couple others for steelmaking will be demonstrated at Baltimore Knife & Sword in late march. They have info on their webpage.
tidewaterforge 1 year ago
@tidewaterforge do you have to be 18 to attend them?
HDJ500 9 months ago
Chuck Norris could pick that up.
hypoallergeni 1 year ago
- Continued,
How in nature here in my location could I find the necessary sand to begin this process? I want to go about this all natural, but obviously I dont have a mine to enter to gather iron sand. I have read other post before asking this question, but wonder if my geographical location would become a problem for me to maybe do this on my own. "I have all the will", but need a way!
CodyOebel 1 year ago
@CodyOebel
I'm not aware of any good, natural sources of iron ore in Texas. The easiest way for you to start is to find a pottery store that sells Hematite - they use it as a glaze - it's just iron oxide, which is all the iron sand really is, just different amounts of Fe and O. Good luck.
tidewaterforge 1 year ago
@CodyOebel If you're near any creeks you can pan for it just like for gold. Its the heaviest thing in the sand so you have to dig deep around rocks and stuff...pan it and the black stuff that's last to pour out has a lot of iron in it. Its everywhere. Supposedly its from space dust.
hibraisil 1 year ago
This makes me want to build a furnace next to my home made forge :). Thanks for the video and team of experts taking their time to put together this project. I really enjoyed watching it, and took a great deal of education from it. On hand sight, I personally want to make my own carbon steel for a true neo tribal metal smithing project. Ive been making 5160 knives with no power tools, but want to take it a step further.
I live in San Antonio, Texas. It's clay mostly here. How in - continued
CodyOebel 1 year ago
I really like this video I will definitely be talking with you. I just posted a hand forged 5160 bowie in which I made all by hand and no power tools. (I follow the neo-tribal metal smith style of blade smithing), and how to make my own steel follows this catagory.
Check my video if any of you want to see me hacking a 2x4 in half with the hammer forged bowie I made, and then I shave my leg with it.
CodyOebel 1 year ago
@tidewaterforge Ya, of course - the way of making steel is approximately the same - except - japanese makers - they make best swords in the world and best razors in the world - and can you make same quality steel of this raw steel? I daubt..
radiantrey 1 year ago
@radiantrey
The Japanese, of course, have been doing this a lot longer. There are US makers who can match that quality - I'm not one of them, but some of the guys in this video are. This is all a learning process, for everyone.
tidewaterforge 1 year ago
@radiantrey A japanese blade or katana,isn't forged once, but many times. it is constantly forged, folded and reforged. So he could, he just needs to constantly re-forge, fold and add to the initial blade.
ian0renos 1 year ago
@radiantrey these steels are obtained after refining dude. this stack is awesome.of course afterwards these awesome guys can decide to make another furnace for further refining and composition re-adjustment
jeetendrag10acc2 1 year ago
@radiantrey Can you spell correctly? I doubt it.
bobjoemagee 11 months ago
@bobjoemagee Me too! :)
radiantrey 11 months ago
Tidewater
HUGE Thanks for this post ! it was awesome to see this technique being used !
Could you keep running the furnace for days ?. Or I guess until the clay gets consumed or broken down,
You southern boys sure know the tricks, :)
Thank you again.
I am going to have my 13yo grandson watch this video,I am sure he will find it as fascinating as I did,
EarlRausch 1 year ago
@EarlRausch
The larger the furnace, the longer it may be run. For the backyard smelter, it's pretty much an all-day process. At some point the furnace usually breaks down, you run out of charcoal or ore, or you just get tired of feeding it.
tidewaterforge 1 year ago
How much Magnetite was used?
This is just my guess, but It seems to me that if it was around 95% iron, and the bloom was around 65 lbs, assuming there was quite a bit lost for some reason or another, is 80 lbs anywhere close?
MizuPsi 1 year ago
@MizuPsi Yield from any charcoal smelter tops out about 50% on a good day. Also, there was less than 50 pounds of actual finished metal at the end of it, so I would guess that between 100-120 pounds of ore was used that day.
tidewaterforge 1 year ago
@tidewaterforge Thanks. It seems like this is pretty expensive then, though I only spent 10 minutes in a search for a source, it was $10 per 5lb bag.
Another question: Are you able to add alloying agents like Silicon or Nickel using this process?
MizuPsi 1 year ago
@MizuPsi This is not a cheap way to make steel. And yes, one could alloy it, but the whole point is to create a clean, alloy-free material that resembles as closely as possible the ancient stuff. Alloy steel is readily available for cheap from a multitude of sources.
tidewaterforge 1 year ago 2
@tidewaterforge so you guys placed Iron in the tube between several layers of the fuel?
uscorg 11 months ago
@uscorg Fill the furnace up with charcoal first, get it up to operating temperature, then as the charcoal starts being consumed, layer in ore, then charcoal, then more ore, etc., for the duration of the smelt.
tidewaterforge 11 months ago
@tidewaterforge so you guys placed Iron in the tube between several layers of the fuel?
uscorg 11 months ago
Comment removed
MizuPsi 1 year ago
Thanks
mcusa77 1 year ago
Isn't the furnace called a copula furnace?
kingmike40 1 year ago
where you can find iron sand?
RockingOrange11 1 year ago
@RockingOrange11 Any iron mine, some beaches and rivers downstream from large magnetite deposits, or occasionally pre-packaged (hematite glaze, for pottery).
tidewaterforge 1 year ago
Is it possible to make a furnace which you do not need to destroy at the end?
great video, that is some cool stuff... hot... ehhh...it's just awesome, how about that.
pyrea17 1 year ago
@pyrea17 Possible, but not very practical. Several of us have experimented with that - most of the bricks above the hot zone are re-usable, so it's not that bad.
tidewaterforge 1 year ago
so only what to do is trow iron sand in it and you get a big bar of steel?
RockingOrange11 1 year ago
@RockingOrange11 Clearly you've not really watched the video - layering in iron ore with charcoal results in a "bloom" of high carbon material, which then needs to be consolidated into bar form before any forging can be done.
tidewaterforge 1 year ago
I enjoyed this video and recommended it to my students when studying the Blast Furnace at GCSE. (UK 14 to 16) You seem to be a group of erudite enthusiasts and I suspect archaeoligists. Do you have by chance a good video clip of a more modern Blast furnace
mrikerrigan 1 year ago
@mrikerrigan I think most of us might consider the term "experimental archaeologist" appropriate, though we do have one full time member of our group in that field in east Tennessee. The rest of us simply have a passion for old material, and learning how to make it is the only way to replicate the character and chemistry of ancient examples.
tidewaterforge 1 year ago
what sort f bricks are used to build the furnice ?
al3e2x19 1 year ago
@al3e2x19 Standard hard fire bricks.
tidewaterforge 1 year ago
You got some dirty handy boy
topsy420 1 year ago
Hey guys, thanks for a great video.
justinjsaley 1 year ago
do you have any publications showing how to do this exactly?
ASSMYLICK 1 year ago
This is awesome!
Izoto593 1 year ago
lol but when they make a sowerd they do fold the steel a lot
Armstrong202 1 year ago
@Armstrong202 Yes, steel made this way needs to be folded and cleaned many times before it's suitable for making any blade with. As Dr. Blue says in the video, it creates the patterns, but they are a byproduct of the steel-making process.
tidewaterforge 1 year ago
@tidewaterforge How do you clean it?
pyrea17 1 year ago
@pyrea17 "cleaning" in this case, by folding up the raw material over and over - the non-iron components will work themselves out of the material, leaving steel with some silica, not unlike wrought iron, but hardenable.
tidewaterforge 1 year ago
So you just put Dirt+charcol and so on until you get the bloom? still dont get it! :P
SDKsa1 1 year ago
@SDKsa1 "Dirt" in this case being iron ore.
tidewaterforge 1 year ago
Did You use Iron Sand, or something else cause i am very intrested in making Steel to make Knives.
RedGhost1990 1 year ago
@RedGhost1990 Any iron ore may be used - sand, magnetite, hematite, as long as the iron component is above 50% this process will work pretty well.
tidewaterforge 1 year ago
this is really great work!
faltino 1 year ago
great vid i have a question. what do you do different to get steel out the bottom in stead of iron .
jackdog20 1 year ago
@jackdog20 As Dr. Blue states, it's time at temperature. That can be manipulated by furnace geometry, stack height, rate of burn, and overall internal temperature.
tidewaterforge 1 year ago
I'm wondering where he sourced out the hematite?
age54321 1 year ago
@age54321 This smelt used crushed Taconite pellets, which are mostly pure magnetite with a little clay. Hematite can also be used, and is available at pottery supply - they use it as a red glaze. But not in this video.
prizzim 1 year ago
most beautiful thing i have seen so far involving fire
insanezy 1 year ago
Amazing. Great video guys.
gsx1138 1 year ago
totally kick-ass!!!! i always wanted to know how steel was extracted. great upload mate.
irishlostboy 1 year ago
hey i resemble that remark
ultrakyuubiman 1 year ago
Good job, well, where's the sword, you'all been drink'n?
butkatrello 1 year ago
@butkatrello Dr. Blue took the material back to Minnesota with him, I'm not sure what they did with this particular bloom.
tidewaterforge 1 year ago
Hello, Tide Water Forge. I have a question....due to my lack of knowledge of minerals and such.
What charcoal are you using ? What type of charcoal contains most iron?
What is hematite and Fe304 ? And isn't hematite Fe203 ?
And last how do you clean the steel mold of the impurities, like glass and charcoal left overs ?
What's that powder between the charcoal layers in the furnace?
Thank you for the nice vid. I'm sorry if my questions are kinda stupid, I'm just an amateur blacksmith.
xxColtyxx 1 year ago
@xxColtyxx That's a lot of question in one post.
The ore (hematite, magnetite, etc.) is what contains the iron. To smelt it is to remove the oxygen and some of the other impurities in the fire by burning charcoal. We all just use regular "lump charcoal", not briquettes.
Purification comes by folding the material several times to remove silica, charcoal, and to even out the carbon content. This is what gives the stell its layers, but that's just part of the cleaning process.
tidewaterforge 1 year ago
look at them red neck necks having fun
noir0222 1 year ago
@noir0222 Yep, except there are 3 Ph.D's in that crowd, and several Masters holders, who simply enjoy experimental archaeology and don't feel the need to overdress for the event. ;)
tidewaterforge 1 year ago 61
@tidewaterforge you should make a sword and then sell it on you tube or something like that but it does look like fun
noir0222 1 year ago
@tidewaterforge
Nice
llamafur 1 year ago
@tidewaterforge
LOL, noir got owned. May I ask what university???
AV3NG3R00 1 year ago
@tidewaterforge hmmm 3 Ph.D's and several masters, im guessing the person who asked "is it still molten in the middle?" probly isnt one of them LOL
sdably 1 year ago
@tidewaterforge Doesnt mean they arnt RedNecks though does it? lol neway just messin. =p
obeyance 1 year ago
@tidewaterforge Rednecks can be educated. You can do a lot of reading in the quiet of the country. This was a great video. Learning is so damn fun.
TheKyla1981 1 year ago
@noir0222 PHD in metalurgy? There's a bachelors and masters program in metal smithing down in southern illinois. Do you think it'd be more worthwhile to undertake this program, or to become an apprentice? This is a serious question.
Cstrife234 1 year ago
@Cstrife234 having a katana is always cool
noir0222 1 year ago
@nivenheim I think I've said it before, but you can use the red hematite sold at pottery supply for glaze as an ore - it works fine. Check out Don Fogg's bladesmithing forum for more on education, books, and a great community involved in this sort of stuff.
tidewaterforge 1 year ago
@nivenheim Only if you clean and seperate the ore from everything else. Yes, the red comes from hematite, but that isn't the only thing in it - you want as pure a product going in as you can, or else you'll just end up with a bunch of slag as the non-iron component of your dirt melts into glass. Excessive slag is bad, too, because it scavanges some of your iron away from the bloom. I would look for a more refined product to start with, or find a way to refine the iron in your material.
tidewaterforge 1 year ago
That was very interesting, thank you.
penguinistas 1 year ago
how does this make steel? isn't this basically an iron bloom?
stupidnamenoonecares 1 year ago
@stupidnamenoonecares
If you listen to Dr. Blue in the video, it's a function of the time at temperature. By making the stack taller than a traditional viking or roman stack furnace, it allows carbon to enter the material as it percolates downward, creating steel vs. iron. Yes, it's in bloom form, but it's already carburized and hardenable.
tidewaterforge 1 year ago
i listened! :D i listed about 5 times actually, he didn't say it was taller, he said it was different.
but your answer fills in the blanks fine. so thanks for that. it seems to me your walking a fine line between making steel and pig iron. would that be why i've seen so many vids of japanese smiths overheating their blades which would decarburise the steel somewhat?
anyway thanks for the upload, it's really interesting stuff. :)
stupidnamenoonecares 1 year ago
scratch that last bit on decarburising steel. doesn't work like that...
stupidnamenoonecares 1 year ago
nice work.
Thetruthishere11 1 year ago
like the Red Ballons, designed to make us feel good. Thank you.
atuuaolcom 2 years ago
I read that the Japanese traditionally used magnetite.. the "black sand" that you can pan out of river sand. Gold panners know what it is. If you put some dirt on a paper and move a magnet around underneath the paper, the magnetite will link up into hairlike projections that move with the magnet. Might as well get rid of as much of the dross as possible before burning up all that good charcoal. You could harvest a lot of magnetite with a magnet.
Wakan2008 2 years ago
Indeed, the ore used in this clip was magnetite, though not from the beds of Japanese rivers... but chemically very much the same. I prefer it, because there is less oxygen bound to the the iron than hematite or any other -ite's, but the end product is as much a function of how the furnace is run, as the starting ore of choice
tidewaterforge 2 years ago
what type of bricks are those?
jackdog20 2 years ago
High-temperature bricks - usually made of silica, a little cement, and some insulator. I've made them using vermiculite mixed with white sand and a bit of portland.
tidewaterforge 2 years ago
ok, i am going to try so explain this using the best of my knowledge. Dirt is full of silica, carbon, and different metal oxides or as it is commonly called rust. as everything is heated valence electrons become very excited and their kinetic energy approaches levels high enough to break their bonds and in this state oxygen bonds with carbon so the iron oxide reduces back to iron more or less and any iron ore also joins the bloom and silicates coalesce into glass
rbmaserang 2 years ago
is there any special kind of dirt needed to do this?
JAROSLAVAGINA 2 years ago
"dirt", in this case, is iron ore... magnetite, hematite, or in plain english, rust.
tidewaterforge 2 years ago
be carefull of coal dust.
gerysc 2 years ago
its charcoal.
kakashi1578 2 years ago
whats the powder you speak of?
riztar 2 years ago 3
iron sand i guess
breekbaard 2 years ago
what did you use for an air source with those 3 tubes on he sides?
kakashi1578 2 years ago
Is that just regular charcoal i can buy for like a grill?
crawboseth 2 years ago
pretty much ya.
kakashi1578 2 years ago
Thankyou, is that all that is used to make the steel? I have no idea how this works, thanks
crawboseth 2 years ago
just think of it as combining iron powder with charcoal in a furnace. the charcoal holds carbon and the iron ore that is usually found in japan holds less chemicals like sulfur and phospherus which makes steel brittle. this steal is called tamahagane. it is what they originally used to make samurai katana in japan. most katana today are not made from tamahagane cause its expensive and hard to make.
kakashi1578 2 years ago
no its like if you make a fire and you see all the coals of the burned wood you know the little glowing chunks you just spread those out and let them cool and go out and put them in safe place (they spontaneously combust). i'm not that great at explaining this look at purgatoryironworks videos.
aerodynamicband 2 years ago
how much does the magnetite cost per pound, and how much did north shore require you to purchase(ie was there a minimum purchase), is there any particular charcoal you prefer? both for furnace and forging
thanks
lordkelbor 2 years ago
Hey great video!
Do you have plans of how to build a furnace like this, I would realy like to build one.
oldfashionedgent 2 years ago
Why are they so excited about it? What are they gonna do with it? Is it worth money or what?
1clevername 2 years ago
Knife makers use it to make blades.
DrMotorDude 2 years ago
It is the only way to get steel of the same chemistry and character as the authentic Japanese steel used in Katana. You can't simply buy the stuff... if you want it, you have to make it.
prizzim 2 years ago
This is a cool video The vikings use to use peat to make weapons they would burn it and they would be left with the iron
Bloodynavallint 2 years ago
??... no, the Viking stack furnace for ironmaking was very similar to this, but a shorter tube. Weapons were then forged like anything else, in a charcoal fire. I reccomend reading William Short's book, Viking Weapons & Compat Techniques for more information on that.
prizzim 2 years ago
I guess Rosie O'donell never saw these guys use fire to melt steel...?
DrMotorDude 2 years ago
LOL yeah good one. What a retarded woman. Can't stand her.
1clevername 2 years ago
For those wondering what the "dirt" or powder is, it is eventually Fe3O4 (Black iron oxide).
rsmiller23 2 years ago 6
same stuff in hand warmers
jfn1103 2 years ago
what does the powder start out as? from what i understand from his illustrations, it is the iron powder that will eventually drip into a large chunk at the bottom. Is that right?
I have no understanding of this process so if my question seems uninformed well it is... thanks for any help that can be offered.
jakemandude45 2 years ago
In this case, it is iron magnetite from Minnesota... very pure, about 95% pure ore. The iron sand used in Japan is basically the same stuff, but instead of being mined from underground it is weathered from the hills and ends up as deposits in sand in the rivers. At the end of the day it's all chemically the same, Magnetite... just variations on what it's mixed up with.
tidewaterforge 2 years ago
great vids man! you inspire me to work for a living as a blacksmith is it possible to? haven't seen any schools that accept blacksmithing as a profession in today's Modern Society.
DarkThug13 2 years ago
I think you have to be a apprentice .
mwillblade 2 years ago