Cobain Case Allan Handelman Tom Grant update 2/21/2011

[HOW7EY]

i didnt like him getting cut off but obviously he was out of time. i really do hope the awareness of this sparks the news again because no matter if its a famous person or not, theres someone out there who's killed a man and is living a luxury life without punishment..i would have no sympathy for her. AND how come john lennon gets shot but someone as morally retarded as Courtney hasnt been harmed once during these 18 years. come on people get hitman on the phone!

[RideMyF150]

Just the facts ma´am ....FACT1) NO PROOF Kurt was an out n out junkie with a massive heroine tolerance level FACT 2) Body was found with 3 x amount of max lethal heroine dose for a human being FACT 3) No fingerprints on shotgun FACT 4) No traces of gunpowder on Kurts hands indicating he had shot a firearm FACT 5) Both of Kurt´s sleeves rolled down.

Happy New Year guys!

[WilliamMorgan32]

Thanks for posting this... I'm going to watch Kurt and Courtney now. Haven't seen it in years...

[EmileFourmis]

Tom Grant is my hero

[kiditaliano]

Please help bring Kurt Cobain, to justice.. This needs sorting, right now.. it can't take any longer

[DiCkRiChArDz]

If Tom Grant breaks this case, he's gonna be a legend.

[97ratedrsuperstar]

@DiCkRiChArDz If he does It will be a day no one will forget

[primaryspiral]

I know about these murder theorys since Kurt's death and for more than a decade I resisted to believe in them but...

I sure hope for Kurt that it wasn't murder. Doubt is the best reason to reopen this case. Doubt persist because something that should be crystal clear isn't.

RIP Kurt Cobain.

[RosaLui]

@CurtisGeorge11 Flawless response, stupid of me to be unconvinced by the evidence, so ignorant of me to realize that 'murderer' = 'diseased untalented trashy whore,' brb leaving some comments on OJ Simpson videos, thank you for ~showing me the light, etc etc.

[RosaLui]

And though I still remain uncertain on this - it's not as though I'm steadfast on Courtney's defense or something - I'm confused as to why one would look under pillows when searching for a missing human being.

[RosaLui]

I'm confused as to why he says Courtney was the only one calling Kurt depressed/suicidal/massively on drugs. I've seen interviews where friends of theirs were talking about his stare of mind and drug use, and things were not all fucking daisies and sunshine.

I feel like widespread misunderstanding of depression and suicidal mindsets maybe contributes to this somewhat. I'm amused at the DJ's implication that Kurt wouldn't be suicidal due to just having had a baby.

[RosaLui]

I don't think anyone's ever denied that Courtney's capable of being controlling, manipulative, and a good liar. She herself says that she's always wanted to be famous, and likes living expensively.

I just think there's a massive difference between the type of person who will use a situation, and the type of person who will go to violent lengths to create one.

And the two of them had been under fire from the press for a long time, thinking of how the media takes things wouldn't be THAT unusual.

[KristinNirvana]

@RosaLui She has been violent before. She even punched out Kathleen Hanna. There's tons of her being violent. Funny, I've seen interviews where his friends talked about how happy he was at that time, and his drug use was lower than it had been, and he did feel a lot happier since his daughter was born. He himself has said this too. The interviews you saw were probably referencing how he was before that. The looking under the pillows was for looking to see if he left any note.

[RosaLui]

@KristinNirvana Yes, punching someone in the face is slightly different from murdering a person. On a scale of one to Axl Rose, that barely ranks to be honest.

The rest, I honestly don't know, but saying you're feeling happy - or acting it - doesn't necessarily mean much either way. It's hard to research when all you have is Youtube....

[KristinNirvana]

@RosaLui All we can hope is that the case gets reopened and all the evidence comes out. Whether people think it was murder or suicide, the main goal is getting it all settled.

[RosaLui]

@KristinNirvana True. I simply have a problem with the people's attitudes.

Out of curiosity, I looked up videos on celebrities actually CONVICTED of murder, and the comments ranged from 'She deserved it' to 'But he's a genius!' to 'He's not guilty!'

There isn't a single video about 'The Cobain Case' where a person's not calling her a cunt/slut/whore/bitch/diseased crack whore who deserves to die.

It's things like this that lead me to question where the certainty of her guilt is coming from.

[KristinNirvana]

@RosaLui You really shouldn't let names people call her have any influence on if you think she is guilty or not. You are going to see stuff like that everywhere, that just comes with the territory of being her, she loved all the bad  publicity she got as well. Just use all the evidence to decide for yourself. Like I grew up hating the horrible person she was, but if there was no evidence, I'd be saying yeah she's trash, but there is nothing to suggest she did it.

[RosaLui]

@KristinNirvana My point was that people are too excited to believe it was her, and as if the fact that she's sexual/aggressive/drug-using seems to be a deciding factor in their dislike, as if hundreds of people in bands haven't been doing exactly that for decades.

It's a massive double standard. If the situation was flipped and Courtney had died, would there be cries for justice? I'm not saying this INVALIDATES the evidence, I'm saying I find people's attitudes disgusting.

[KristinNirvana]

@RosaLui Oh yeah, well you're always going to find that, and it works all ways too. Like I hate how people discredited how Michael Jackson was a child molester just because they liked his music, and I always hate it when I see people look up to Courtney BECAUSE of the horrible person she is, like they think that's cool or something and they wouldn't care at all if she were a decent human, like it's actually not fair to her that all they like is she's a crazy person. Tons of stupid people.

[ICallMePhil]

Courtney is still trying to figure out a way to kill Tom Grant and get away with it

[GnosticPrince]

I read your video description, it is amazing how the music lives on, as I was from that generation and saw him in concert only one time on the last In Utero tour in December of 93 at the civic center in Tallahassee Fl. Just a few months before the death in April 94. I was 14 at the time and have NEVER been the same since... lol ;)

[KristinNirvana]

@GnosticPrince Woa, that must have been amazing. I was never the same when I discovered this stuff. It's just hard being a kid finding out about this stuff because i never found any other grunge kids like me, and only a handful of kids knew of Nirvana, but then they would like mention their name once or wear their shirt once and then never again. But I've talked to other young people on youtube and we all seem to have the same story of yeah I was the only grunge kid in school too.

[bethany2nirvana]

LET ME TELL ALL OF YOU (WELL MOST OF YOU) SOMETHING..WE DO NOT KNOW HOW KURT DIED....THERE IS OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE TOWARDS MURDER IN MY OPINION BUT IT IS NOT PROVEN. THEREFORE, DO NOT STATE AS FACT THAT HE KILLED HIMSELF OR WAS MURDERED. THATS WHY WE HAVE DISCUSSIONS TRYING TO UNCOVER THE TRUTH MORE AND MORE EACH DAY. ITS JUST ANNOYING TO SEE PEOPLE STATING HIS WAY OF DEATH AS A FACT , WHEN IN FACT THEY DO NOT KNOW JUST LIKE ANY OF US AT THIS MOMENT.

[MegaTnt420]

i do NOT take Judys side BUT I have seen advertisements that say for a -- donation u will recieve--- (depends on the product) but normally the more u donate the more you get ya know? like watch tbn and stuff like that. I repeat though I DO NOT AGREE WITH JUDY!!!!! thank u 4 ur time

[MegaTnt420]

Grant does make money but I don't think its a whole lot ya know. I think courtney did have something to do with it as does her own father. Documentary on the case. She didnt do it herself.

[mcwinker]

I thought Kurt stuck the gun to the side of his temple

[KristinNirvana]

@mcwinker Nope. I've even heard people say, "I thought he died from a drug overdose" so some people have the story confused.

[notyouraveragejuan]

Courtney Love is so guilty.

[faridjabba]

wow, TomGRAnt even Cried here, I knew it, not only hes a very clever Investigator of Truth but Hess also a very Sensitive Person like Cobain Himself, Beautiful! We Sensitive Truth Seekers Rule no matter what!

[Boddahism]

@faridjabba He was hired by Kurt's PR people to lead everyone into the "myth" of a conspiracy about his death. They made a ton of money off the fans from this myth.

[faridjabba]

@Boddahism .hi,.who u talkin about?what is @pr@?

[Boddahism]

@faridjabba The people who handled Kurt's public relations (PR), even Trent Reznor was involved in this decision to hire Tom Grant. It was like a game to them even consulting me on how Courtney should act following his death. I was inconsolable and grieving as Kurt had been in my life since I was 15 and they wanted to know how Courtney should ACT. She played it down for the "memorial" which was put together, more than she would have liked.

[faridjabba]

@Boddahism , I THIKN i dont underatnd what u say, what u mean by "even consulting me"?or " I was inconsolable and grieving as Kurt had been in my life since I was 15 "? who are u if so? what your SOurce for that Hypotesis about Grant_?

[Boddahism]

@faridjabba I met Kurt Cobain while he was on the road crew for the Rock Till You Drop tour with Def Leppard on May 16, 1983 while they were promoting the Pyromania album. Kurt and I worked on many songs together after this. My "source" is having been there when it happened. The suicide stunt for publicity he pulled in Rome was on my mother's bday in '94. When he returned to see me, I told him about my cousin who used a shotgun to kill himself on Feb 25th after getting out of rehab.

[Boddahism]

@faridjabba Who am I? "At peace ami, you're a good one" and "my so. (southern) wifie" - Kurt's journal.

[KristinNirvana]

@faridjabba I think it might be a random crazy person. Click on her channel and read the stuff in her about me, and the channel comments.

[faridjabba]

@KristinNirvana thanks, I Agree, u still rresearchiing on this casE?

[KristinNirvana]

@faridjabba I'm still paying attention when I hear anything, but haven't heard anything new in a while.

[XiXDimeBagDarrellxIx]

Lie detectors...... i'm sure with multiple testings you could get the truth from Courtney -.-... or..... good ol' fashion torture

[juiey2]

@XiXDimeBagDarrellxIx

personally i prefer the torture

[97ratedrsuperstar]

@XiXDimeBagDarrellxIx I would just plain out kick her ass to get the truth, shes a crazy bitch!!

[zenmonkey666]

actually it's just 36 dollars (but for me +15 for shipping, lol). doesn't matter anyway. the point is that you can't find ALL the information on the site, and he's DEFINITELY doesn't do it just from his own pocket. end of conversation.

[zenmonkey666]

but ok judy, you know what? you're right. paying for a hamburger at the mcdonalds is just donating, it's about helping them make more food for us. if you think about it, this is a pretty fuckin good advertising policy - we give you food free!!! we do it from our own pocket! you can find all kind of burgers here!! (((((.....if you donate a concrete price.....)))))

[Thijs3FM]

Tom Grant for president.

[TestMeatDollSteak]

IMHO, the fact that Kurt decided to flee rehab, even under threat of losing Frances, is quite telling that he didn't want to deal with his drug addiction. He didn't want people telling him what to do. Personally, I think his drug addiction blinded him into thinking that he didn't have any other options...I think he lost hope for a happy, clean and sober life w/ his family. Just my interpretation after everything I've read. I never met the guy.

[zenmonkey666]

why kurt escaped from the rehab? why he adressed his letter to his imaginery friend? if it was a murder..

[KristinNirvana]

@zenmonkey666 He escaped from rehab because he was pressured into it by Courtney the drug addict who threatened to take Frances away and he didn't want to be there because it wasn't for him, it was a typical rock star rehab with people telling him, oh we know how it goes, you're a rockstar you have to do drugs, I'd have done the same thing, he probably addressed the letter to his imaginary friend as a metaphor for his fans who really get him, those who understand, not the posers, the enlightened

[zenmonkey666]

@KristinNirvana i accept the first explanation, but the second is pretty weak, sorry. oh yeah, really, the real fans! like you! sure. i always use my imaginery friend's name as a metaphor and except from others to find out

[KristinNirvana]

@zenmonkey666 Actually the second explanation was more Tom Grant's theory, although I think he said something like boddah as in budda as in the enlightened ones who know what he was talking about. I just expanded on that. No need to get all angry, who knows what he really meant. It's just that the letter dealt with being a musician and being in the spotlight and he was the type of guy to hate his art getting famous and suddenly all these people that don't get him are into it, so it's for FANS.

[zenmonkey666]

@KristinNirvana sorry, i'm not angry at all. but look, boddah is something, which really take the note to a really personal level. practically he wrote this letter to himself..

[KristinNirvana]

@zenmonkey666 I was sort of saying the same thing. Boddah would have been something close to him, something intimate, so he could have addressed it to himself, or people exactly like him, but judging from the content of the letter, he was talking to the fans, saying he wanted to retire from music. But I guess only he would know what he really meant.

[MegaTnt420]

@KristinNirvana and zenmonkey666 he hated posers! if u werent there when he was nothing(i mean on the grunge scene. u know like a real fan of his style/genre) thats why he wore dresses and stuff. He wanted to drive the posers away. He never changed his style of clothes or anything when he got big. He still shopped at thrift stores and such. I personally believe that something was done to him. He just wanted to raise Frances and live in peace. RIP Kurt.

[KristinNirvana]

@MegaTnt420 Yeah, I hate posers too. Had to grow up seeing nothing but posers because I went to school during emo times, and it sucked! I shop at thrift stores too because they always have the most unique, individual stuff for cheap that are actually comfortable, and I don't like my generation's clothes. I love that they wore dresses. More men should do that. Yeah, he did just want to raise Frances and live in peace. Poor guy.

[judyleasugar97]

@zenmonkey666: I've always suspected "Boddah" was forged onto the note (like the last few lines) specifically because it makes the note look more personal and less what it really was, a retirement letter to his fans.

[zenmonkey666]

@judyleasugar97 LOL oh come on... occam's razor, you know. "look more personal and less what it really was" BECAUSE IT'S REALLY PERSONAL and NOT a retirement letter. i wander who came up with the idea "oh come let's write kurt's imaginery friend's name to the letter to make it more personal!!" jesus christ people, don't be freaks.

[TestMeatDollSteak]

@zenmonkey666 Thank you for seeing the errors in the conspiracy theory logic. Also, if Courtney added the last few lines ostensibly to cover for a murder, then why did she make no apparent effort at all to keep her writing more consistent w/ the rest of the note? Those lines stick out like a sore thumb, and the handwritten note was STILL forensically determined to be 100% Kurt's writing. It simply makes more sense that Kurt added the odd-looking parts himself while fucked up on dope.

[zenmonkey666]

@TestMeatDollSteak yeah, and it's much more lame, if you know that grant mentioned an "evidence" about a note, where kali (kurt and courtney's nanny) practicing kurt's handwriting - rosemary caroll (courtney's lawyer) showed it to him. this is an evidence for the fake suicide note, right? but if cali practied the writing, why he (or courtney) fucked it up so badly????? strange.

[TestMeatDollSteak]

@zenmonkey666 Right. I think that "practice sheet" was actually found by Rosemary in Courtney's backpack, and that's the main piece of physical "evidence" that people use to presume that the odd-looking parts of Kurt's suicide note are actually Courtney's writing. But, yeah, my thoughts are basically the same: If she were "practicing" his writing so much, then she pretty well fucked it up on the suicide note, lol. The "practice sheet" was never proved 2 be an attempt 2 copy Kurt's writing anyway

[MegaTnt420]

@TestMeatDollSteak wrong on one aspect honey-- it was NEVER determined 100% that the note was his writing. it is actually said ON RECORD that there is only a 65% likeness in the last few lines.

[TestMeatDollSteak]

@MegaTnt420 Sorry, sweety, you're wrong. The handwritten note was determined to be 100% Kurt's writing, that's a fact. NO ONE other than the SPD's Janis Parker has ever offered an opinion on the handwritten note. The analysts that you mention were given 2nd-generation photocopies to examine, and said ultimately that the copies were "too poor to make a firm pronouncement."

[MegaTnt420]

@TestMeatDollSteak everything i have found is that it is inconclusive. doesnt look the same to me! jmo

[TestMeatDollSteak]

@MegaTnt420 The results of the *photocopies* were all inconclusive, which is what I said :) The results of Janis Parker's examination of the *handwritten* note are available under "case documents" on the justiceforkurt site. Parker compared Cobain's suicide note to the note that Kurt left @ the scene of his OD in Rome a month prior to his death, and she determined the suicide note to be entirely Cobain's writing.

[MegaTnt420]

@TestMeatDollSteak How did she compare them when courtney burned the one from rome? ( not tryin to be difficult hun i really want to see it from all sides)

[TestMeatDollSteak]

@MegaTnt420 Courtney burned the Rome note *after* it was returned to her by the SPD, which was after the note had served its purpose as a known writing sample of Cobain's. The Rome Note was apparently a vindictive diatribe against Love, accusing her of infidelity and so on and so forth, but the actual text of the note is only known by a small handful of people that actually viewed it (Love, Janis Parker, other SPD officials, possibly a few people close to the couple.)

[BlondAmericanAnarchy]

@zenmonkey666: Who would do that? Courtney.

[zenmonkey666]

@BlondAmericanAnarchy and who else? kurt himself. if a theory's best explanation to something, that it's "made up", then that's theory is not strong enough, sorry.

[zenmonkey666]

and one more thing. tom grant says everywhere that he doesn't make any money from this. then why is he _selling_ his stuff on his site? i mean 50 dollars for a fucking document, made by a printer and ms word?

[judyleasugar97]

@zenmonkey666: To reimburse himself for the time he spends on the investigation. His time is worth something. You're complaining about 50 bucks? When people sell stories to tabloids for millions?

[zenmonkey666]

@judyleasugar97 blablabla... he said so many times that he doesn't make any money from this case, then i see, that he sell his own stuff. 50 bucks is a huge amount of money. i mean you can buy the love and death BOOK for 13.79 at amazon.com!!!! think about it.

[TestMeatDollSteak]

@zenmonkey666 Also, according to the Project Unplugged series here on YouTube, Grant is hoping to have a book published in the near future about the "evidence" he's uncovered in the Cobain Case.

[judyleasugar97]

@zenmonkey666: If you were honest you'd admit $50 isn't very much money, considering how much he could have made through the right avenues. He is trying to reimburse his own costs investigating the case. He's not getting rich.

[zenmonkey666]

@judyleasugar97 it's pretty fuckin much money for just some piece of paper. look, a BOOK (officialy printed, with nice cover, etc) costs 13.79 dollars. and in this video the radio host said, that "from his own pocket" and "you can find ALL THE INFORMATION on the website" - lies, lies, lies. sure you can find it all... IF YOU SPEND 50 BUCKS (almost four times the price as the best kurt cobain murder book out there). so something's not right about it.

[judyleasugar97]

@zenmonkey666: It's a donation to help continue the investigation. Sheesh, why don't you get that?

[zenmonkey666]

@judyleasugar97 nope. donation is donation, you choose how much you wanna give. selling something for a defined price is not donating. so shut up.

[judyleasugar97]

@zenmonkey666: Huh???

[zenmonkey666]

@judyleasugar97 PAYING for SOMETHING you want is NOT a donation (or selling something for a price that someone else wants). get it?

[judyleasugar97]

@zenmonkey666: Sorry, you make no sense. I don't remember that rule, LOL. You're just reaching.

[zenmonkey666]

@judyleasugar97 sweet jesus.... it's not a rule, just simply LOGIC, you know. you just fuckin play with the words, so you don't have to admit, that grant actually makes money from this case.

[TestMeatDollSteak]

@zenmonkey666 Judy doesn't understand common sense or logic. That's why she's convinced that Kurt Cobain was 100% clean and sober in 1994, that's why she exalts Ian Halperin as a "true journalist", that's why she naively asserts that there is "no money in the conspiracy theory", that's why she accuses people of being paid to comment her, that's why she refers to anything which contradicts her preposterous theories as "Courtney propaganda", & that's ultimately why she insists Kurt was murdered.

[judyleasugar97]

@zenmonkey666: You mean fair reimbursement for the time he spends on the investigation? He's not rich.

[zenmonkey666]

@judyleasugar97 i didn't say that he is rich. just said that it's a lie, that he doesn't make any money from the case. that's it. but "fair"? well nobody asked him to do that... what are we talking about? he's selling information on his website, period.

[judyleasugar97]

@zenmonkey666: He charges to help pay for costs. It is considered a donation since it contributes to the ongoing investigation. I don't really know what your point is.

[TestMeatDollSteak]

@judyleasugar97 Judy, zenmonkey's position is: There is information contained in Grant's study manuals that is not available for free on-line. If you want the information, you have to pay a set price. His position continues that there seems to be a profit margin included in the relatively high cost of the manuals. Businesses everywhere include profit margins to assure they keep their doors open, too, but calling it a "donation" is euphemistic, as the price is non-negotiable. Comprende?

[judyleasugar97]

@TestMeatDollSteak: I have seen quite a few other situatons where a purchse is considered a donation. to a cause, so, you're both full of it.

[TestMeatDollSteak]

@judyleasugar97 Whatev's...if you're more comfortable thinking of it as a "donation to a cause", like Grant is the fucking Red Cross or something, then that's your own spin, but I tend to agree w/ zenmonkey: He's selling his information, and you really have no idea where that money goes once you give it to him, just like many "charities".

[EdinAmmar]

@judyleasugar97 i love how judy is constantly called out for her words and actions. She is a hypocritcal, paranoid liar at best. She talks like she personally knows kurts thoughts and feelings, but never had a relationship with him This is a sign of mental illness. Not only that but judy thinks courtney is paying people to go on youtube and attack her. Again another sign of mental illness. Judy is constantly defending liberal positions but she finds calling someone gay amusing. she is mental

[notyouraveragejuan]

@EdinAmmar: Hey. No one wants to hear you insulting other youtubers.

[EdinAmmar]

@notyouraveragejuan you need to do some research before on the orgins of the isults. I've called judy out on her paranoid views on kurts death. Judy goes around posting insane rants on kurts life. All my comments are replys to her statements. It's judy and her lame friends who made this personal with the use of insults that arent related to the topic of kurts death. Can you please tell me what reasons do dave and krist have to cover up kurts drug use or death? why cant you answer this?

[notyouraveragejuan]

@EdinAmmar: Your comments sound like insane rants. Why don't you move on?

[EdinAmmar]

@notyouraveragejuan as long as people like judy go on youtube and post irrational lies about kurt and his life i will be there to call them out. The people who need medication are ones that say kurt didnt od in rome or that kurt was clean and off drugs in 94. Tell me what reasons do dave and krist have to lie about kurts death and drug use?

[notyouraveragejuan]

@EdinAmmar: But you can post your irrational rants? Everyone is entitled to an opinion. I would suggest professional help and medication.

[notyouraveragejuan]

@EdinAmmar: I would suggest medication.

[EdinAmmar]

@judyleasugar97 50$ FOR A SPOILED, BRAT, WHO LIVES IN A BUBBLE ISNT ALOT BUT FOR EVERYONE ELSE IT IS ALOT. THE FACT THAT GRANT IS BEGGING FOR MONEY IS PROOF HOW LITTLE VALIDITY THERE IS IN HIS INVESTIGATION. SAYING THAT GRANT COULD HAVE GONE TO THE TABOIDS IS PROOF ON THE GARBAGE THAT COMES OUT OF HIS MOUTH. NO REPUTABLE PERSON WOULD EVEN GO TO THE TABLOIDS TO MAKE MONEY OFF A DEAD PERSON. YOU ARE A JOKE JUDY, GET A LIFE.

[EdinAmmar]

@judyleasugar97 GRANT IS A JOKE AND HAS SAID NUMEROUS TIMES THAT HE HAS EVIDENCE THAT PROVES KURT WAS KILLED AND NEVER EVER HAS PROVEN NOTHING. JUDY IS A PARANOID, MENTALLY ILL PERSON WHO THINKS COURTNEY LOVE IS HIRING PEOPLE TO GO ON YOUTUBE TO POST REBUTTLES TO HER POSTS. HOW INSANE DOES A PERSON HAVE TO BE TO THINK THAT COURTNEY KNOWS ABOUT AND EVEN CARES ABOUT THEM. JUDY YOU ARE A SICK, UGLY, SOUL AND KURT WOULD SPIT ON YER FACE IF HE WERE ALIVE. LEAVE HIM ALONE.

[judyleasugar97]

@EdinAmmar: EdinAmmar is a cyber bully.

[EdinAmmar]

@judyleasugar97  judy get over yerself. YOU DONT KNOW KURT AND YOU DONT KNOW HIS THOUGHTS AND FEELINGS. why are you constantly talking about kurts life as if you knew him and his thoughts? You have terrible taste in music, you know nothing outside of the little bubble you live in. Tell me JUDY, what reasons does Krist, and Dave have to lie about kurts drug use and death? please answer this question.

[ubicaubicaubica]

"I love attention, I love the trappings of it all. To say you hate the trappings, you're an asshole and a liar." (Courtney Love).

Kurt reportedly did hate the trappings of it. He wanted out.

[ubicaubicaubica]

"I love attention, I love the trappings of it all. To say you hate the trappings, you're an asshole and a liar." (Courtney Love).

Kurt reportedly did hate the trappings of it. He wanted out.

[notyouraveragejuan]

Grant wasn't even supposed to be in the office when he got the first call from Courtney? Sounds like the powers that be trying to help Kurt.

[13RiDdLeR13]

Wow all the arguments over the death of Cobain. Here is the truth. Kurt didn't want to live anymore due to his drug addiction/depression issues. He shoots himself up with a lethal dose of heroin, careful not to leave a good print on the shotgun, and then pulled the trigger. He pre-determined a murder/suicide theory to keep his legacy alive. Case closed. lol wow so how easy that was.

[KristinNirvana]

@13RiDdLeR13 Ha, thanks for your sarcasm.

[MegaTnt420]

@13RiDdLeR13 if it was suicide why did he take care to leave no prints anywhere? i wouldnt care about fingerprints if i was killing myself! come on

[EdinAmmar]

@MegaTnt420 you are so stuck on little details about kurts death and you are avoiding the big picture. Kurt was addicted to drugs, kurt's was not in a healthy mental space during the last few months of his life. A healthy, sober person doesnt take the amount of ruffies that kurt took in rome. A healthy sober person doesnt go into rehab. Dont listen to a word Courtney has said about kurt, listen to what dave and krist have said, which is that he killed himself and was on drugs. end of story

[MegaTnt420]

@EdinAmmar but see it's the little details that make up the big picture.

[EdinAmmar]

@MegaTnt420 the facts are obvious and clear. Just look at dave and krists own words. What reasons do they have to lie or cover up kurts death and drug use??? He killed himself, it's sad to say and i know that people dont want to think of their heros like that but that's the simple truth.

[perfectxshawn1]

unless the case is re-opened let it go ,im sure frances doesnt want to hear this crap ,if there was a case it would be happening now,if kurt was murdered god will be the judge .let it go

[KristinNirvana]

@perfectxshawn1 Frances would want to hear the truth.

[Hotice770]

Not one bit of physical forensic evidence = no case. You expect people to believe Courtney was such a master at plotting a death that she was able to hire these people to kill kurt, leaving NO forensic evidence behind? No blood on someone's clothes, bloody foot prints, DNA left at the scene? Even the most experienced killers often accidentally leave evidence behind. In this case with supposed amateur killers, there was NOTHING left. No case. A bunch of hearsay.

[KristinNirvana]

@Hotice770 There probably was evidence, they didn't check for fingerprints on the gun until a month or so after, and he was cremated fast, and I even heard Courtney got rid of the greenhouse so as to get rid of evidence, and it has always been said that she was sleeping with the cops, she had connections in high places that would help her I'm sure.

[Hotice770]

@KristinNirvana Heres the thing, with NO evidence, there will be no case. Period. I know enough about the criminal justice system to know that. They don't even have the forensic evidence to prove 100% that he was murdered, let alone the evidence to show WHO did it. They have no case. Everything is speculation. Right down to how "weird" Courtney acted to Tom. Acting "weird" isn't evidence that someone is a murdered. Until Tom comes up with ACTUAL evidence, he needs to shut up.

[Hotice770]

@KristinNirvana Oh and bull shit she was "sleeping with the cops".Another stupid rumor to somehow make her look like she is able to control all these people. Yeah I'm sure she slept with all the cops on the case, and was "friends" with the guy who did the autopsy report. Well if it were that easy for a chick to get away with murder, ALL women could just get away with murder by blowing a cop. So stupid. A rumor isn't truth.

[Bleak]

@Hotice770 If you're right then Tom's meddling will only lead to truth. Leaving stones unturned and uninvestigated will leave people with doubts. People too oft take sides on humility and speculation when one shouldn't divert from balancing both. Unless there is reasonable enough evidence to dismiss all allegations then investigation is reasonable. The burden of proof is on both parties. Besides the CJS is as corrupt as any system consisting of ones who go to excess to $atiate personal desires.

[EngineOfRuin]

@KristinNirvana, can´t you just block that idiot jino ? It´s a waste of time. People like him will always be around.

[KristinNirvana]

@EngineOfRuin ok, I blocked him, I didn't know you could do that before

[EngineOfRuin]

@KristinNirvana No problem :-)

If you need any information about the case, or anything Kurt and Nirvana related, hit me up :-)

Best regards

[EngineOfRuin]

Justice Will Prevail.

[bitchkilledKurt]

dude I could fucking kiss yuo right now!

[jino666able]

no fuckin mistery here

[KristinNirvana]

@jino666able I know right? It's soooooo ovious, yet 17 years later the case still isn't reopened.

[jino666able]

@KristinNirvana :d reopened because of ignorant fanboyz (fangirlz) like u.... I know..it's hard and we all miss kurt (even though he probably doesn't give a fuck xD ) but lets face it he commited suicide for munerous reasons and if you think he has no good reason to do that you probably don't know much about him .[R.I.P. Kurt]

[KristinNirvana]

@jino666able I kmow he has good reasons, I have good reasons, but even if I planned out the date and time of how and when and where I was gonna kill myself, I would expect the police to look into it as a homicide first, because anything could have happened. I know it's hard to accept that it was murder, I would so much rather his life was in his own hands and he commited suicide, but we can't be in denial anymore. We have to accept the facts. SO much evidence has piled up, we can't pass it up.

[KristinNirvana]

@jino666able He had 3 times the lethal dose of heroin for a hardcore heroin addict in his system that would immediately kill him or incapacitate him, so he wouldn't be able to put the drugs away and put a shotgun in his mouth, there were no fingerprints on the gun or shells, there was something about the gun being in the wrong position for a lefty to shoot himself, and he was divorcing Courtney so she wanted his money, he has also said that people say he's suicidal even though he's not etc.

[jino666able]

@KristinNirvana about the lethal dose-it's sayd (by the doctors that performed the autopsy) that he had just enough time to pull the trigger even though the heroin dose was lethal...about the fingerprints - this wasn't the first case of using a gun and leaving no fingerprints ;...about Courtney - he wasn't divorcing her; about what she said - wtf if you had a husband would you tell anyone that he is suicidal ?...SEE ? EVERY "EVIDENCES" YOU HAVE ARE BASED ON FANBOY THORIES...ps: read some books !

[KristinNirvana]

@jino666able Well, all this stuff is coming from the Private Investigator who investigated the case, so over anyone, I would trust him, and everyone who commits murder tries to make it look like a suicide, but I guess we should just agree to dissagree. Nothing's going to bring him back, I would just like it all to be sorted out.

[jino666able]

@KristinNirvana the private investigator is braindead. The first thing he should have done was to ask if anyone knew where Kurt was before he KILLED HIMSELF...cuz he was reported missing 2 days before he shot himself. but no one knew where he was untill they found him dead. That means noone knew where he was and no one could have killed him.HOW CAN SOMEBODY KILL KURT IF NOONE KNOWS WHERE HE IS???sounds logical? but I guess your "evidences" are more reliable than logic ,so you know you're right.

[PullingTeeth1]

@jino666able

Are you seriously this dumb? Don´t you think he did that? He was working on the case a week before Kurt was found dead, AND YES, he looked for him that's what an investigator does. And if foul play was a fact here don't you think Courtney would have lied about Kurt's whereabouts, and then have hired an investigator to make it seem like she did everything she could to find him when she was really just sending the investigator around to random places.

[KristinNirvana]

@PullingTeeth1 I know, right? I don't know where this person is getting their information, or what they think happened.

[jino666able]

@KristinNirvana that person is getting his information from books so go watch some "Courtney is murder-bitch" videos and fuck yourself !

[jino666able]

@PullingTeeth1 first of all a week before kurt killed himself he was in a rehab ,so idk wtf was the investigator looking for. nevermind . i guess you guys are really sure that someone could have found kurt's stash of heroine hidden under a tile on his howse' floor and injected him with a lethal overdose ,then shot him in the head. i won't argue .that's not even important i mean who gives a shit ?the only thing that counts is music , KURT made some great records so let's get on with it.

[PullingTeeth1]

@jino666able

No, actually i don't agree with you there. The music is irrelevant in this context, don't you realize that? If Courtney is guilty of homicide she needs to be held accountable for her actions. Also you reek of apathy and its quite sickening, the man who's music you enjoy may have been the victim of foul play resulting in death and all you can say i who gives a shit?

[jino666able]

@PullingTeeth1 m'kay i still don't give a shit ,not cuz i'm sick or dumb but cuz i'm sure i'm right, so go investigate while i'm listening to NIRVANA cuz the music ,my smart-ass friend is "relevant to the context" because it's WAAAY more important than any shit you can come up with about Kurt's life or death. and for Kurt's sake read some literature if you give that much of a shit about his death, and try as hard as u can to not take sides,then you can (i hope) see the truth.

[PullingTeeth1]

@jino666able

You obviously are sick and dumb if "you´re so sure" that you´re right. Enough evidence has been presented so that any reasonable person will at least be open the possibility of murder. Did you even read my post? NIRVANA is not relevant in this context, its about Kurt's death not his music. "and for Kurt's sake read some literature" what do you mean? I already read literature, plus you could use some reading up too. Your spelling/grammar isn't exactly up there with Hemmingway.

[jino666able]

@PullingTeeth1 'scuse moir 4 not being american=british=shit (i'm pretty sure you suck much more in bulgarian grammar than i suck in english grammar so :X...)... i meant that if you are to talk about Kurt you should really have made a clear poitn first...i think if you start doing research, the book store is the first place to go not some fanboy website... and if you really read some literature on the case you wouldn't have been uncertain about the case...

[PullingTeeth1]

@jino666able Also i don't take sides (unlike you), you see i remain uncertain on this. I just hate when people like you come to these sites with the same attitude spewing bullshit about how its "retarded" when people have invested hours out of their free time to research this(admittedly some of it may have been for money gaining purposes). Bottom line, if the music is so important to you and this case is not then don't even bother coming here in the first place.

[EngineOfRuin]

@PullingTeeth1 Exactly. What a fuck.

[jino666able]

@EngineOfRuin go die !

[jino666able]

@PullingTeeth1 xD you're the last person to tell me where I can and can't go ,smart-ass...bottom line- your research = shit ! and i will prove that my time spent in research was not wasted and lead me to the conclusion that this is not a murder case ,so i will keep "coming here" cuz i want dumbases like you to know that...and when they see that it's foolish to look for a murder in this case they can start spending their time listening to KURT's music instead of playing investigators.

[EngineOfRuin]

@jino666able Ok, two possiblities: 1. You negate your mind, like most people.

2. You´re that fucking stupid.

Ah, ok, and the 3rd one, to say it again, you´re a TROLL.

Cheers.

[jino666able]

@EngineOfRuin one possibilitie : i don't give what you think.

cheers my dears !

[PullingTeeth1]

@jino666able

Also, it might seem like such a obvious case to you but that's just because you haven't looked into it. Do me a favor, go to JusticeForKurt(.)com and read up on this case then you can slag this man and his efforts as much as you want. Jesus, do you really think this case would have been investigated for 17 years if it was as crystal clear as you make it out to be?

[jino666able]

@PullingTeeth1 the case has been investigated because of fanboys like you.do you think I didn't check the bullshit people made up about the case? a while ago i was uncertain about it too. then i visited some sites and all i saw was people uploading crap about the case being "murder" and it seemed very made-up ,so i started seriously looking for answers and i bought some books...and as you can probably guess - reading made me see that all the crap about Kurt being murdered are useless and wrong.

[EngineOfRuin]

@jino666able Stop trolling. Go outside and do something useful.

[MegaTnt420]

@jino666able which books did u read? i really would like to read some more on it.

[MegaTnt420]

@jino666able ur researching skills stink on the angle of the medical examiner said he MAY have had time to shoot the gun but not to have all his drugs put away. My husband died from overdose and they tremor pretty quick. Death is quick by overdose n herion cases. especially with 3 lethal doses pumping through your veins.