History has now proven that Danner was right regarding the lies and reasons we went to war.
The CIA and Rumsfeld both have said there were NO WMDs and there were NO Alcaida and opium and pedastry was absent under the Taliban. Now both countries are in shambles at a level far far worse than Hiroshima and Nagasaki. How much did it cost us to rebuild Japan? How much has it cost us to prop-up regimes in the Middle East? How much do we pay in reparations to the Jews in Israel? Trillions
whether either one is correct, the tactics are very different. I personally can not fall as easily for the scare tactics anymore. At the same time this war has sucked!
Not so much a representative of the" anti-war movement" as the pro-Left faction. Leftists had backed Saddam Hussein for years, with the Russian Bolsheviks themselves responsible for the possession and use of poison gas by the Iraqi Ba'athist military. The Leftist argument then was that Saddam was a good, modernist leader who was being unfairly besmirched by the US government for "reuniting" Kuwait with Iraq - apparently an argument that has long since been forgotten.
Personally anyone who was ignorant enough to get the idea that Iraq was behind 9-11 isn't worth considering.
All the fake whining over the poor idiots that got confused about it is rubbish. If I thought the administration did lie to them which I don't, I'd consider it justified and I'd be proud of them.
Asking for honesty from elected leaders maybe naive but comments like the one listed below invite dangerous policy. Also it opens a window into the author's own integrity. Do the ends justify the means is an old question but always relevant either personally or on the level of society
When education fails, democracy becomes a hopeless dream, and that is the case in America today.
I expect lies and hope for honesty, because of that I am rarely surprised by what politicians do, as it is the actions of Bush clumsy though they were, are consistent with an unplanned reaction to unfolding events, not with any sinister plan as the fools who believe in international conspiracies contend.
@GaiusIuliusTaberna- not being surprised by politicians and not believing in conspiracy theories is practical and that good stuff but what was written before pretty much says they author is proud of being lied to about the reasons for sending his neighbors to go kill other people. Or in the very least it was a poor way to express the joy in seeing those who believe in some sorted conspiracy get pissed off.
If I'm choosing for myself, I can say the ends do not justify the means. I have the luxury of that morality and can choose to take the high ground at my own expense.
If others are depending on me to protect or provide and it is my duty to serve them, I have no such luxury. The ends justify the means, and I'll just have to carry the cost of that personally.
Hitchens was quite ahead of his time. The benefits in 2003 were few, however even the news itself has now become aware and is making others aware that the Iraq people, are now enjoying freedoms they never had under Saddam.
I think many seem to struggle to look beyond the atrocities of war. However if you look at the benefits which arise some comfort and understanding can be found.
Liberal Argument, you sure meant traditionalist argument. Liberal people will tell you that America has no business directly freeing other people from tyranny if you go by the traditional Liberal/conservative wisdom.
Journalism. He of course makes a joke and in a round-a-bout way the point that you cannot always trust what you read. So really your question is one which is quite idiotic.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Yeah, invading countries for no reason is great. The united states is all about killing innocent people all over the world, a terrorist nation like no other.
It's no surprise that KBR Inc. (KBR, news, msgs), a division of Halliburton (HAL, news, msgs) during the years we examined, tops the first list, compiled by Eagle Eye, with $17.2 billion in Iraq-related war revenue for 2003-2006. KBR is one of the largest construction and energy field-service companies in the world. It has a long history of collaborating with the U.S. government on war-related construction.
Think critically america, this matters. it isn't as simple as cream or no cream, double latte or plain. this will affect your future and the future of your children.
don't take it lightly, listen to this guy because he knows more about the world than you.
we are not safer, you were tricked and continue to be tricked into war. just like vietnam when they faked the gulf of tonken incident which was the incitement of the war.
yes i'm american, i live in MN and im also patriotic as they come, so patriotic that i would criticize anyone who stands in the way of my freedom and the freedom of those i care about even if it is someone who i think is very intelligent and articulate but also very wrong on geopolitical subjects as hitchens so clearly is.
im curious why you asked though...
my name is completely random and has no meaning so if you're curious based on that.....
Just the curious use of apostrophe. "You" this and "your" that. I don't think Hitchens is wrong, and the more I listen to him speak the more convinced I am that the status quo position on Iraq (of which I have been, until very recently, a willing participant) is either incorrect or, at the very least, dangerously unacquainted with the facts. I may not agree with everything that Hitchens says, but he has a broader knowledge of, well, everything, than any other journalist I have read or seen.
Thank you for posting this, rabidbear8.
writersblock26 6 months ago
History has now proven that Danner was right regarding the lies and reasons we went to war.
The CIA and Rumsfeld both have said there were NO WMDs and there were NO Alcaida and opium and pedastry was absent under the Taliban. Now both countries are in shambles at a level far far worse than Hiroshima and Nagasaki. How much did it cost us to rebuild Japan? How much has it cost us to prop-up regimes in the Middle East? How much do we pay in reparations to the Jews in Israel? Trillions
OctoBox 9 months ago
8 years later- how can anyone argue that we are less safe?
Territomauvais 10 months ago
Danner's arguments "The sky is falling"
Hitchens argument, Long & thought out.
whether either one is correct, the tactics are very different. I personally can not fall as easily for the scare tactics anymore. At the same time this war has sucked!
pumpstations 1 year ago
Mark Danner was quite ahead of his time on the coming disaster.
willforrhall 1 year ago
Not so much a representative of the" anti-war movement" as the pro-Left faction. Leftists had backed Saddam Hussein for years, with the Russian Bolsheviks themselves responsible for the possession and use of poison gas by the Iraqi Ba'athist military. The Leftist argument then was that Saddam was a good, modernist leader who was being unfairly besmirched by the US government for "reuniting" Kuwait with Iraq - apparently an argument that has long since been forgotten.
DrCruel 1 year ago
I'm struggling to find substance in Danner's arguments.
Crazytalk589 1 year ago
Most boring interlocutor of Hitchens ever. You coulda brought any ol lefty up there to say that basic, simplistic shit.
countertreason 1 year ago
Personally anyone who was ignorant enough to get the idea that Iraq was behind 9-11 isn't worth considering.
All the fake whining over the poor idiots that got confused about it is rubbish. If I thought the administration did lie to them which I don't, I'd consider it justified and I'd be proud of them.
GaiusIuliusTaberna 2 years ago
Asking for honesty from elected leaders maybe naive but comments like the one listed below invite dangerous policy. Also it opens a window into the author's own integrity. Do the ends justify the means is an old question but always relevant either personally or on the level of society
brodymachado 1 year ago
When education fails, democracy becomes a hopeless dream, and that is the case in America today.
I expect lies and hope for honesty, because of that I am rarely surprised by what politicians do, as it is the actions of Bush clumsy though they were, are consistent with an unplanned reaction to unfolding events, not with any sinister plan as the fools who believe in international conspiracies contend.
GaiusIuliusTaberna 1 year ago
@GaiusIuliusTaberna- not being surprised by politicians and not believing in conspiracy theories is practical and that good stuff but what was written before pretty much says they author is proud of being lied to about the reasons for sending his neighbors to go kill other people. Or in the very least it was a poor way to express the joy in seeing those who believe in some sorted conspiracy get pissed off.
brody1kenobe 1 year ago
@brodymachado
If I'm choosing for myself, I can say the ends do not justify the means. I have the luxury of that morality and can choose to take the high ground at my own expense.
If others are depending on me to protect or provide and it is my duty to serve them, I have no such luxury. The ends justify the means, and I'll just have to carry the cost of that personally.
rkyeun 9 months ago
lol hitler mustache shadow reminds me of Rat Race
dh234 2 years ago
"...a war that quite simply can't be lost..." - lol
jakob0815 3 years ago
Hitchens was quite ahead of his time. The benefits in 2003 were few, however even the news itself has now become aware and is making others aware that the Iraq people, are now enjoying freedoms they never had under Saddam.
I think many seem to struggle to look beyond the atrocities of war. However if you look at the benefits which arise some comfort and understanding can be found.
EWKing08 3 years ago 18
You can but that's a liberal argument. Traditionalist people will tell you that America has no business directly freeing other peoples from tyranny.
derner22 3 years ago
Liberal Argument, you sure meant traditionalist argument. Liberal people will tell you that America has no business directly freeing other people from tyranny if you go by the traditional Liberal/conservative wisdom.
cupocity303 2 years ago
@EWKing08 and yet the anti war movement still haven't conceded they were wrong.
GaiusIuliusTaberna 2 years ago
what is the alternatives to reading the papers Hitchens talks about?
reincarnatemozart 3 years ago
The alternative is to become a world class journalist yourself.
tivibtr3d 3 years ago 6
Journalism. He of course makes a joke and in a round-a-bout way the point that you cannot always trust what you read. So really your question is one which is quite idiotic.
EWKing08 3 years ago
thank you, hitchens.
llapole 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Yeah, invading countries for no reason is great. The united states is all about killing innocent people all over the world, a terrorist nation like no other.
seraph101 3 years ago
@seraph101 Chomsky would be proud, take that however you want.
GaiusIuliusTaberna 2 years ago
The problem with Danner is he fails to divorce himself from the emotion that has been roused in him from being and experiencing the Post Saddam Iraq.
st8942 3 years ago
Divorcing ourselves from emotion is what puts us in every single conflict. I struggle to see the advantage of a non-empathetic decision.
tonowicz1 2 years ago
how is US government making profit?
HotLeper 3 years ago
For instance:
It's no surprise that KBR Inc. (KBR, news, msgs), a division of Halliburton (HAL, news, msgs) during the years we examined, tops the first list, compiled by Eagle Eye, with $17.2 billion in Iraq-related war revenue for 2003-2006. KBR is one of the largest construction and energy field-service companies in the world. It has a long history of collaborating with the U.S. government on war-related construction.
jsullivan80 3 years ago
lol you can tell that you know almost nothing about america if you need to ask that question.
go get some credible info first and make sure it isn't on TV I'm talking about books and documentaries or debates and conversation.
but seriously,if you don't know how american imperialism turns profit then you need to go back at the start and relearn everything.
niginit 3 years ago
Think critically america, this matters. it isn't as simple as cream or no cream, double latte or plain. this will affect your future and the future of your children.
don't take it lightly, listen to this guy because he knows more about the world than you.
we are not safer, you were tricked and continue to be tricked into war. just like vietnam when they faked the gulf of tonken incident which was the incitement of the war.
it's all about profit, who's making it?
A. your government.
niginit 3 years ago
niginit, are you American? I would say no, but I want to be sure.
genovesachx 3 years ago
yes i'm american, i live in MN and im also patriotic as they come, so patriotic that i would criticize anyone who stands in the way of my freedom and the freedom of those i care about even if it is someone who i think is very intelligent and articulate but also very wrong on geopolitical subjects as hitchens so clearly is.
im curious why you asked though...
my name is completely random and has no meaning so if you're curious based on that.....
yes american,no i don't like nascar:)
niginit 3 years ago
Just the curious use of apostrophe. "You" this and "your" that. I don't think Hitchens is wrong, and the more I listen to him speak the more convinced I am that the status quo position on Iraq (of which I have been, until very recently, a willing participant) is either incorrect or, at the very least, dangerously unacquainted with the facts. I may not agree with everything that Hitchens says, but he has a broader knowledge of, well, everything, than any other journalist I have read or seen.
genovesachx 3 years ago 2