Alex Salmond on Scottish devolution (23Oct11)

[ukculture]

Assholes. Scottish want devolution but still want British money, free college, free this free that whiile our kids have nothing free. Scotland F*ck off - the sooner the betetr and stop taking our money too.... Tight fisted scotish bastards

[jayesdw]

Now that he has gotten into this corner, his only ways out are either the shame of leading a third world country (after everything he has told his people), or to lose or stop the referendum (either resulting in shame also, and the complete demise of his party). The only person who will benefit is Cameron, who is pretty lucky to be in the position he is in now.

[MrRobertJameson]

@jayesdw Lucky?

[jayesdw]

So now whats happening is the westminster parties are saying - Look, you're either in or you're out. Now, ultimately this has called for a referendum, which even Salmond is reluctant to take. Why? Because if he loses, not only will (if ever) another call for referendum take about 20 years (end of his political lifespan), but he and everything thing his parties 'policy" quite literally stands for will be fucked.

[EnglishChannel1]

Scotland, please leave the Union. It will save us English folks loads of money.

[karezza6]

William Wallace was a paedophile.

[pixmafia]

The quicker they get independence the quicker we can get the builders to put the wall back up!

[TheCulturedGoat]

The Scots are turning into teen brats who keep screaming at their parents: 'I hate you and I'm leaving home'... but never do

[thegapshow]

Alex 'Fish Fart Face' Salmond

[TheLiberalKnight]

Alex Salmond is a corrupt pro-Communist China cunt.

[SuperFruitloopy]

I wish scotland would just fuck off,instead of talking about it!

[malechauvinistxy]

I like Alex Salmonds eyebrows.

[malechauvinistxy]

Alex Salmond is just a fucking fanny.

[malechauvinistxy]

Andrew Marr has weird teeth.

[hlashflahflhsjfh]

@RichardElden I don't know why you are so concerned about the people of NI, they can decide their future as they like. I suppose as part of the UK divorce we can take 10%, they can live aboard the decommissioned subs and continue their petty tribalism under the sea.

[hlashflahflhsjfh]

@RichardElden Chris Cunningham is a very successful video artist, I don't think he needs much support. I have no idea who Marvin Baird is, but I'm sure we'll scrape by somehow what with the revitalised manufacturing industry, tourism, food and drink exports, oil and natural gas, coal, and let's not forget the hot new economic goldrush into renewables. Scotland will be able to export both the tech and the surplus energy generated. I sincerely doubt they'll be any worse off :)

[hlashflahflhsjfh]

@RichardElden Canadians are Scottish by descent, does that mean we get to keep them as well?

[hlashflahflhsjfh]

@RichardElden Surely the 'loyalists' are British dear boy.

That's beside the point, the future of NI will be decided by the voters of NI, and at this current moment in time it appears they favour Sin Féin over those grumpy faced unionists.

[hlashflahflhsjfh]

@RichardElden No the English can keep NI, they'll need a new scapegoat for the 'subsidy junkie' patter that get's bandied about on comment threads about Scottish independence.

Or hell maybe just maybe Ireland could be reunified, that would be nice wouldn't it?

[dacochsta]

Hahaha. Look who it is, Richard Elden, King of the Trolls. Don't waste your time with him. This appears to be the only thing he does with his life. Check other videos like this and you will see what I mean. Very sad.

[gr4mmo]

@RichardElden Haha. Into politics when you were 8 years old were you? Maybe you should remove your age from your profile before you start trying to pick fights with random people. Then they might not realise you're just an ignorant little boy. I would say that this referendum is an "attempt at secession". I don't see any aerial or naval blockades... and it wasn't "us" that won in Libya you fucking tool. It was the Libyan rebels.

[gr4mmo]

@RichardElden So Scotland will have to reapply for the EU... but the EU is finished. Someone is a little confused. Scotland has a parliament because we voted for one. I think England should be independent too. So stop moaning and start campaigning. Wishing cancer on a national hero: Wow! You really are a pathetic, ignorant little boy. I've had cancer and would never wish it on anyone. You are a disgusting individual. At least with independence your views will have no impact on me or my country.

[gr4mmo]

@RichardElden The last major EU expansion in 2004 saw 10 new countries join - six of them smaller than Scotland, and six of which have become independent since 1990. The EU don't want countries to leave. Why would they make it difficult for Scotland? That is if they even have to reapply. Scotland is a country with its own devolved parliament which is currently part of the EU. Why would it change? And what the hell does "sepraticist" mean? You aren't creating a very compelling argument...

[gr4mmo]

@RichardElden Scotland is already part of the EU as part of the UK. On independence they wouldn't have to rejoin. Even if they did, why would Germany and France veto an application? And do you really think Italy has any say considering the rest of the EU is likely to have to prop them up soon. Though I don't know why I'm bothering to reply to you given your last comment. Why the hell would China want to start a war?

[WhenWeWereKings100]

i dont have an opinion just a fact. when scotland are gettin hammerd by england and they seem to think we are costing them money i would like them to do an equation. Politicians talk in percentages , well take this and figure it out for yourself. the population of scotland(multiply by the number % given unemployed and then divide by 100. do the same with england.

[1966thewallace]

@RichardElden You truly are a waste of youre dads spunk!,unless you take after youre old man and he is a scumbag too??

[1966thewallace]

@RichardElden Fuck off troll!!

[1966thewallace]

RichardElden, what a waste of his dads spunk!

[phatcontrolla]

"An independent country within the European community" - Very important that, because that wouldn't make Scotland independent at all, and joining the Euro would make it less independent.

[thebigJM92]

@phatcontrolla Changing one authority (Westminster) for another (Brussels) is a worry that the Scottish people do have to think more carefully about as a long-term eventuality. It is not certain but it could happen. England too for that matter. Separate we are in a weaker position as regards our position to the EU (divide and rule, you can see it in EU support for Catalonia in Spain and the Northern League in Italy).

[phatcontrolla]

Oh, OK he's talking about joining the Euro, so he is working for the same people after all, shame.

[gr4mmo]

*Most not Post... :-P

[dauntless111]

RichardElden is a Troll. Please don't feed him. Report Abuse to YouTube.

[gb0029]

True politician - nothing like edging your bets, if he can't have the direct route he will go with the slower indirect route. Win win either way cos he ends up with more power

[markgr101]

@RichardElden Your comment here aptly demonstrates what a vile & hate-filled little man you are. Whilst I too was opposed to bank bailouts & Brown's political leadership in general, to make comments like this about his daughter is beyond the pale. You are a disgusting excuse for a human being!

[dauntless111]

@markgr101 I agree. RichardElden has been trolling these videos fro quite some time now. I have a funny feeling that Karma might get him in the end. Poor guy, he obviously has issues.

[1scot4scotland]

Fact is RBS was bailed out to bail out English shareholders. But lets not forget, It was the Westminster puppets (politicians) that de-regulated the banks. Scots are not Stupid, they know that the banking crises is a very good example of how Scotland could do a better job as an Independent nation.

Just because the English failed doesn't mean Scotland would, FACT!!

[globaltraveller]

@RichardElden Devolution is great! Thank you Maggie Thatcher!!!

[NeddLudd1811]

Economic independence is the only real independence

"We would use sterling" = some other nations currency betraying any real independence.

"We would move to euro" = see above

Pocket money economics!!! And salmon know this, he used to work for the Rothschilds ffs!!!

Independence is just a parlour game for retards to get emotional over.

[PHONEYPOLITICS]

Scotland can fuck off for what the English care - l might move there if they do become independent denounce the Royals and get out of the EU - dualpassport anyone.

[ukipwarrior]

RBS would have gone under and taken Scotland with it if it would have been independent.

[liarpoliticians]

@ukipwarrior The two Scottish banks were saved because Labour DEPEND on Scottish votes at the general election.

[NeddLudd1811]

@liarpoliticians You really need an education on the oligarchs behind the banks and the economic controling methods they they provide for oligarch rule. Dont think 500 characters will do it so gl!!

[globaltraveller]

@liarpoliticians See above. If RBS had failed, the effect in England would have been even more devastating than in Scotland.

[scjsdnfgo8743hhgbf54]

@liarpoliticians not any more :)

[NeddLudd1811]

@ukipwarrior Iceland didnt go under, it refused to bailout its banks and now its the only european country with any real growth. If you want national independence from artificialy created central powers then surely you would cheer the break up of the UK.

[globaltraveller]

@ukipwarrior If RBS had gone under, the effect on England would have been catastrophic - even worse than in Scotland. RBS did a great deal more of its business in England than in Scotland.

[lordmauleverer]

95% of shareholder were English based under a UK regulatory system. So talk sense. And the UK is in such a great place just now, isn't it?

[markgr101]

@ukipwarrior Utter nonsense! On what grounds do you base this blind assertion? Did you even listen to the interview? It is now well documented, if you bothered to look, that Scotland is a net CONTRIBUTOR to the UK economy and as such has always been in a better position to service its debts than HM Treasury. But of course you get all the information you need from the almost entirely unionist mainstream media. But don't let the facts get in the way of your prejudice, ignorance is bliss after all!

[OddThomas88]

@markgr101

gnorance is bliss after all!

Irony

[markgr101]

@OddThomas88 'Too wee, too poor, too stupid': the usual responses from unionists. You obviously haven't looked at official figures from the Treasury or Holyrood. Don't take my word for it but don't believe everything you're spoon fed by the media either, do your own research. The only people more dangerous than the ignorant are the deceived.

[dauntless111]

@ukipwarrior Wrong. RBS would have been bailed out by the country within which it operates. Begian Banks bailed out French Banks and vice versa. RBS poured BILLIONS into the UK treasury over the good decades and it was considered it a successful BRITISH bank, but after the bailout, it becomes exclusively SCOTTISH. Funny that.

[TheseAreMyReveries]

@ukipwarrior

RBS were given £20 billion by the British Government. RBS had paid more in Corporate tax over the 10 years proceeding, not to mention that they employ thousands of people who all pay NI and Tax on earnings, plus NI paid by RBS. They have over the last 10 years increased their size 20 fold to £1.73 trillion in value.

Anybody, who genuinely believes RBS have "cost" Britain anything is a fool/media puppet. They will recover and be the greatest asset for Britain once again.

[segano1]

@ukipwarrior NEW FIGURES RELEASED!!!

If Scotland gets independence Scotland would become the 6th richest nation in the world rather than the 16th if it stays in this rancid union, Scotland will no longer be burdened with subsidising the rest of the UK at it's own expense.

[thebigJM92]

@segano1 That "rancid union" kept us from being ruled by France once and Germany twice. Tell me, how would you describe the differing sides in the Jacobite Rising of 1745?

[segano1]

@ukipwarrior England would still have to pay the debts to the Scottish banks because they are international companies that operate in England also. Scotland would only have to pay around 12%, this would be comfortably dealt with by an independent Scotland.

[gr4mmo]

@ukipwarrior a.) RBS is actually a London based bank these days therefore would be the UK's problem. b.) It was Gordon Brown's deregulation of the banks that caused the problem. That would not have been allowed in an independent Scotland.

[thebigJM92]

@gr4mmo You think deregulation of the banks would not have been allowed in an independent Scotland when the SNP incessantly compared an independent Scotland to Ireland and Iceland.... who deregulated their banks massively and paid the price. Iceland still owes us all money

[gr4mmo]

@thebigJM92 His comparison to Iceland and Ireland was purely as they were northern European countries doing well in the world, he didn't suggest copying their financial regulation. Alex Salmond said that the Gordon Browns decision to deregulate was a bad idea at the time. Besides, that was then this is now. It is completely irrelevant to the current argument. The union HAD it's advantages such as the wars you reference. But again, that was then, this is now. Times have changed.

[thebigJM92]

@gr4mmo You are slightly naive if you think these things won't or couldn't happen again. What is the SNP's plan on nuclear arms?

[gr4mmo]

@thebigJM92 A Nuclear free country, exactly how things should be. What the hell is the point in Trident: if someone nukes us, we'll nuke them back. That sounds like the beginning of Armageddon to me. Germany and France aren't going to invade again as we're all part of the EU and they have no reason to. You are incredibly naive if you think that they would.

[thebigJM92]

@gr4mmo So what happens to the 11,000 people whose employment depends on Trident? The reason no-one would nuke us is because we have the potential to nuke them back, without nuclear weapons a nation is instantly reduced in international standing. Why do you think the UK still has a veto on the UN Security council? The EU is hardly the most stable of institutions and in the long run it isn't Germany and France that we need to worry about.

[1966thewallace]

@thebigJM92 You talk shite tory boy!

[thebigJM92]

@1966thewallace What an intelligent comment. Tell me, were you born retarded or did Margaret Thatcher make you as thick as pig shit? I'm from Lancashire so I have my own issue with "tory boys" and this government, but I don't whine about it and throw my toys out of the pram.

[1966thewallace]

@thebigJM92 Dont cry tory boy just keep youre hat on, what about the 20,000 defense jobs that have been lost up here in the last ten years??and as for trident, since you cherish having them so much perhaps you would like to keep them and all their associated risks down in good old lancashire?? i dont think that canada,australia nz,germany and others have any less international standing because they dont have nukes.The uk is a second tate country nowadays .

[thebigJM92]

@1966thewallace Ah finally something roughly intelligible from William Wallace's shameless progeny! I'd quite happily take Trident in Lancashire and give us the tens of thousands of jobs, god knows we need them! And those 20,000 defence jobs lost in the last 10 years are never going to come back in an independent Scotland, whereas they might if Scotland stayed part of Britain. Canada, Australia, New Zealand and Germany don't have permanent seats on the UN security council or the power to veto

[1966thewallace]

@thebigJM92 Youre still full of shite tory boy!! we are still part of britain just now and i dont see defence jobs coming back,and im sure the people in lancashire can have the trident jobs and the radio active leaks,Canada and the others arent botherd about no security council seat ,you silly boy! it will be so funny when england loses their seat dont you think and becomes a nobody like the rest world who,s not on it you arogant little english prick.

[thebigJM92]

@1966thewallace Radiocative leaks my arse. France is full of nuclear power stations and nuclear missiles and they do fine. Any major cock-up over there would affect us anyway, we may as well have our own. Canada isn't bothered about a security council seat because it is right next to the USA and likes to get a free ride in defence, plus it is divided as a nation between the French speaking, the English speaking and the native peoples so has trouble just deciding anything.

[thebigJM92]

@thebigJM92 You seem to struggle to understand that it is not about "England" losing the security council seat but the whole of the British Isles will take a blow in international importance and relevance. Who do you think will listen to an independent Scotland? What possible reason would ANY nation have? Especially after a few decades when the North Sea runs out and you are left high and dry. I doubt everyone in Scotland is as thick, narrow-minded and short-termist as yourself...

[1966thewallace]

@thebigJM92 Yes son we all know it means england=(britains) seat at the council.i think plenty of nations will listen to an independent scotland, including england and the rest of the uk amongst others when we are exporting our oil and gas to everyone,amongst other things thick tory boy!

[1966thewallace]

@thebigJM92 For someone trying to sound clever you seem to know little about scotland,SEPA said if they had the power they would have closed faslane after its 4th time of allowing radioactive material to leak into the river clyde.(fact).And youre talking shite about canada son,and as for any major nuclear cock-up in france wouldnt affect us,havent you heard of chernobyl you silly little tory boy.

[thebigJM92]

@1966thewallace Oh dear. Read my comment again. I said any nuclear cock-up in France WOULD effect us, hence we may as well have our own nuclear missiles and power plants. What I said about Canada is simple fact that any Canadian would admit (and any American will tell you bitterly). Oil and gas are not still coming in at full capacity, a simple google search can prove that much. More than half of the total North sea oil and gas has been extracted. Production down 30% over the last two years

[1966thewallace]

@thebigJM92 Thats a pretty spurious reason for having nukes,you will find that the usa and canada have a joint defence pact,its called the north american defence pact.And as someone who worked for twenty years in the oil industry until last may i know exactly whats still to be recoverd and what the production level is i wouldnt beleive everything you read on google.lol!

[thebigJM92]

@1966thewallace So I won't resort to such petty generalisations as "thick Scottish bastard" etc. However I will explain to you as simply as possible that in 2020 North sea oil will be producing at only a third of its peak and gas is already down by half. Meaning Scotland will be considered irrelevant in everything outside of shortbread production. Under any independence deal I presume people like yourself would want Scotland to cut and run from overseas commitments.

[1966thewallace]

@thebigJM92 You realy are thick! oil and gas production are set to last at least another forty years in the north sea.Thats not to mention the new fields discoverd of our west coast. I think youl find that the oil and gas are still actualy coming in at full capacity and have been for the last forty years,you thick english bastard but wont generalise eh!,

[thebigJM92]

@1966thewallace New fields discovered off the west coast will only temporarily stave off inevitable decline, will require a huge amount of investment to exploit properly, and will have to be shared with Ireland/Northern Ireland. The companies with the required clout will predominantly be foreign owned and due to the increased risk Scotland will have to reduce the tax rate on these oil fields to encourage investment, thus reducing income

[1966thewallace]

@thebigJM92 The estimated recoverable reserves off the west coast of scotland are estimated to ten times the entire north sea.So plenty of reason to invest dont you think?? The finds are in the western aproaches, west of shetland on scotlands continental shelf.So no silly claim that it has to be shared with ireland north or south,the companys searching may be foreign but the drilling licenses will be scottish snd so will future tax revenues from these feilds.

[thebigJM92]

@1966thewallace so England would be looking after the overseas dependencies. Fine by me, we can have all the oil round the Falklands in exchange for a few thousand English and Welsh soldiers preventing the Argies invading. How much money would Scotland reserve for foreign aid? Or is England going to have to pay for all the food for the starving, malaria vaccines, disaster relief etc? Under independence would RBS move to Scotland or would it stay based in London? Many questions no answers

[1966thewallace]

@thebigJM92 You will also be glad to know that an independent scotland wil be entitled to half the over seas dependencies.And i think that scotland will be rich enough to give out foreign aid,And as for the rbs we would just get rid of all the english bankers who ruined it.

[thebigJM92]

@1966thewallace Scotland would not be entitled to half the overseas dependencies (it would be lucky to get a third) and could not hold them even if it wanted to with a tiny army and virtually no navy. It most certainly wouldn't get any right to the Falklands oil wealth. As for your comment about RBS, it doesn't even deserve a response it is so moronically simplistic and banal.

[1966thewallace]

@thebigJM92 I think youll find youre wrong again,scotland has paid into the union for over 300 houndred years, and for someone like you who thinks they know history, should know that the act of union was supposedly one of eqauls and therefor all future union assets and territories will be devided eqauly when there came a parting of the ways.If you dont beleive me you can always google it and read the articles of union,As for rbs thats simply a statement of fact!!

[thebigJM92]

@1966thewallace Oh and I noticed you said "your union", as if it was only an English one forced upon the Scottish people. This leads me to think you have fallen for the Scottish historical bullshit. Please explain to me how the Union between England and Scotland occurred? Also please explain whose side you would have been on in the Jacobite rising of 1745 and why?

[1966thewallace]

@thebigJM92 I Love puting you people strait tory boy, if you knew anything about the history of the union then you should know that the english gov bribed the scottish mp,s to agree to union in 1707 the majority of whom lost all their wealth in the ill fated darian scheme,but just to make sure they voted the right way the englishnhad a 10 ,000 strong army on the border ready to invade if they said no.Bonnie prince charlie was only intersted in gaing a crown,Ordinary scots wanted no union ever.

[thebigJM92]

@1966thewallace The English did not "bribe" Scot MP's, it bailed out Scotland for the disastrous Scottish attempt at empire building. Scotland's MP's saw the ineffectiveness of Scotland as an independent nation and its spectacular inability to keep up with other European nations amidst the expansion of empires. Realising Scotland's weakness Scot MP's took advantage of the offer to fully join with England for mutual benefit (links had existed since Scottish King James became King of England)

[1966thewallace]

@thebigJM92 Typical tory who,s twisting history now tory boy??the scottish lords who were mp,sat the time were bankrupt not the country, the english gov seen a chance gain the whole island so bribes were offered and millitary force applied just to make sure via an army at the border and a naval blockade of scottish ports.The scots were rioting in the streets after it they wanted no union with england.And as for james the v1he was only in it for himself.

[thebigJM92]

@1966thewallace That's not a bribe that's called common-sense. Scotland was as "forced" to join the union as Britain was to join Europe. England's economy was massive in comparison, and Scotland's economy was in trouble. Opposition in the Scottish parliament was based upon party and clan lines. I suggest you read a book called "Revolutionary Empire" by Angus Calder which goes a great deal into the union.

[1966thewallace]

@thebigJM92 I Wouldnt believe history writen by unionists for unionists, stop trying to tell scotlands history from an english pont of vew ,they were bribed and threatend and scotlands economy was not in trouble as you claim,you know nothing of scots history, apart from that written by biased english historians or scots liars.

[thebigJM92]

@1966thewallace Congratulations. You can rank yourself with communists and neo-nazis amongst people who refuse to accept historical fact as laid down in peer-reviewed, well sourced and referenced books according to the international standard for historians. Are you seriously telling me that the only history you will accept as truth is the history written by Scottish nationalists? You, sir are as foolish as the Germans who believed everything Hitler told them about German history.

[1966thewallace]

@thebigJM92 I dont accept scottish history which has been written by biased scottish or english unionists, who work to a unionist agenda .Just like the biased and rabidly pro union bbc scotland and the rest of the main stream media.

[thebigJM92]

@1966thewallace So one side of the argument is biased and the other isn't? Oh dear, you have so much to learn about the way history is written....

[1966thewallace]

@thebigJM92 Yes most british history is lies,written by liars.

[thebigJM92]

@1966thewallace "Yes most british history is lies, written by liars."

If you believe that you'll believe anything. You believe anything you get spoon fed by a nationalist politician with a clear bias and agenda but a book that is peer-reviewed by some of the most eminent historians, from a historian internationally renowned, well referenced and sourced with primary and secondary sources, you refuse to believe? You sound ridiculous.

[1966thewallace]

@thebigJM92 It doesent change the fact that youre talking shite tory boy,youre starting to bore me now,so fuck off!!

[thebigJM92]

@1966thewallace Who says i'm "talking shite"? Only you. With no evidence to prove that I am other than the bullshit spouted by a politician. You would be laughed out of any serious debate.

[thebigJM92]

@1966thewallace Calder, a Scot himself, says that the Scottish Convention approved almost unanimously that overtures for union should be opened. Many more Scottish aristocrats were marrying into English families. Both Scottish and English opinion would swing one way then the next based on events happening at the time. King William III had wanted Union since the Scottish Convention voted unanimously for the ratification of the Glorious Revolution in Scotland (but English Parliament resisted)

[1966thewallace]

@thebigJM92 What a lot of shite

[thebigJM92]

@1966thewallace The Scottish ministries were manipulated by London, which was a major cause of resentment, but the English Parliament was furious at the idea it would have to bail out Scotland for its own mistakes. The "Country" party in the Scottish parliament wanted free trade with England but no loss of sovereignty (something England would never agree too as there would be no benefit) whilst the "Court" party was for Union. There was also a wild Jacobite faction that could whip up the people

[1966thewallace]

@thebigJM92 Still more shite

[thebigJM92]

@1966thewallace Famine in Scotland in the 1690s meant there were nearly 200,000 beggars in Scotland. In 1704 the Scots Parliament threatened to open diplomatic overtures with France (England's oldest and most dangerous enemy) and naturally this caused both bitterness and resentment in England. England therefore threatened to introduce the "Alien Act" in 1705 which would have booted out all the Scots in England and closed off trade. Both countries effectively blackmailed each other

[1966thewallace]

@thebigJM92 History lesson scotland and france have had diplomatic relations for over 700yrs in scotland its called the auld alliance,the only threats and blackmail were commited by the english fact!!!

[thebigJM92]

@1966thewallace Scotland and France HAD had relations until as part of the good faith agreements between England and Scotland in the 17th century they agreed to align themselves with England since they both now had the same King. Oh and as for where I got my facts on oil in the north sea I refer you to BBC news and a report to one of the G8 summits.

[1966thewallace]

@thebigJM92 You know nothing of scots history tory boy,and as for youre info on the oil you must be dumb if you believe the lies and fase propaganda that comes out of the EBC.

[thebigJM92]

@1966thewallace The idea of England "bribing" Scotland's MPs is a blatant simplification and twisting of history similar to the SNP's trying to make Bonnie Prince Charlie into a Scottish hero against the evil english occupation of Scotland- despite him wanting to keep the Union!

[1966thewallace]

@thebigJM92 No tory boy its simple historical fact about being bribed, and no twisting of history unlike you!.When have the snp ever tried to turn bonnie prince charlie into hero, or for that matter ever even mentioned him???ya muppet!!

[thebigJM92]

@1966thewallace England gave Scotland £398,085 10s to Scotland in 1707 to write off its debt and allowed Scotland to tap into England's booming and ever-expanding overseas trade. This saved Scotland financially and would allow it over the next two hundred years to become one of the industrial centres of the world. Without it the Scottish people would have remained in massive debt to English and European moneylenders and would have remained a clan based rural, subsistence level nation. Fact.

[thebigJM92]

@1966thewallace Germany has a much bigger population and economy than Britain and France yet its Britain and France that have those positions, they also funnily enough have nuclear weapons. Must be a coincidence? I wonder what Iran and N Korea will do when they realise that having nuclear weapons doesn't make them more listened to after spending all that money on it? And India, Pakistan and China must have just put all that effort into developing nuclear capability purely for aesthetic reasons.

[thebigJM92]

@1966thewallace Not just our position on the UN Security council but a member of the G7 and one of the top 3 nations in the EU. Plus the symbolic head of being founder of the Commonwealth which would also disappear with the end of the union. There are other ramifications too. But i'm sure my petty foaming nationalist comrade you have thought through all the foreign implications and come to a balanced conclusion. You know an alliance with France against England just won't do anymore.

[1966thewallace]

@thebigJM92 I laugh at wee english pricks like you who are watching their precious countrys last vestiges of power slowly disapearing like sand slipping through their fingers.Youre pathetic country trying to still feel big and tough in the world,when in reality its slipping into the lower leaues lol, and as for the security council seat thats like the wee coward who hangs around with all the bullies in the school playground ,face it dummy youre union is totaly and royaly fucked.hahahahahahaha

[thebigJM92]

@gr4mmo And Salmond's plan was for Scotland to be a 'tiger economy' like Ireland, which must inevitably have meant deregulation and indeed most likely a property bubble similar to that in Ireland. The addition (and heavy reliance on) oil reserves is worrying short-termism at best, and I very highly doubt the Scottish people want their beautiful land savaged by a rash of thousands of wind turbines and hydro-electric dams clogging the lochs

[gr4mmo]

@thebigJM92 Look mate, I have seen your page, we clearly have different views. You are evidently quite conservative (which I find rather worrying for a 19 year old) and pro nuclear. I believe world peace is something worth fighting for and I don't think nuclear arms are the way there. I happen to also be very pro green energy and think hydroelectricity and wind power are a good thing, but Scotland are leading the way in wind and tidal power too. We evidently have fundamentally different...

[thebigJM92]

@gr4mmo World peace is a very noble aim, but Scotland has one of the proudest warrior histories (inside the union and out) and even to this day the British army has tens of thousands of brave Scots serving their country. I know Alex Salmond has said he would keep a Scottish army but Scots make up a disproportionate number of troops, meaning extra cost on independence

[gr4mmo]

@thebigJM92 ...political viewpoints as do the Scots and the English. Most scots are anti nuclear weapons. Post scots are pro green energy. The opinion polls say so. That, among other things, is why I believe we would both be better off in this day and age as separate self-governing countries. Which way this goes will be decided democratically in a referendum. And by the way, tiger economy just means a fast growing economy. Banking deregulation is not the only way to achieve this, funnily enough.

[thebigJM92]

@gr4mmo Tiger economy does indeed just mean a fast-growing economy but in 9 out of 10 modern cases this has meant deregulation of financial services, along with an influx of foreign investment attracted by a slashing of corporation tax (and often income tax too). I think the Scottish people should have a referendum on their independence and I fully support you on that point, in precisely the same way that we should all have a referendum on EU membership. Democracy demands both.

[gr4mmo]

@thebigJM92 Many people actually fear that in an independent Scotland the income tax would be a lot higher! I believe high income tax is an essential part of a strong economy. It was one of the principle errors that the Irish made by slashing it! Our lead in the renewables sector is already providing us with good foreign investment too. As for the referendum on EU membership, well I think we may have found something we agree on! :-D

[thebigJM92]

@gr4mmo Ha ha i'm glad we agree on something!

[gr4mmo]

@thebigJM92 And I respect people that would rather keep the union together. Both arguments have their advantages in certain places. It just depends where you place your priorities. Tribal politics gets us nowhere, it's better to understand the opposite POV so we can make for more civilised debate, thus why PR is a better system in theory than FPTP. Sorry for assuming you were conservative. You are compared to me, but evidently from your comment below, that may have been a sweeping statement!

[thebigJM92]

@gr4mmo Yes I agree with you that tribal politics is ruinous and far too inevitable in the current system. In theory PR would sort that out but whether it would in practice is a different matter (Italy is even worse than us and they use PR!) The problem we have with referendums (as we saw with the one on AV) is that the real and strong arguments on both sides are ignored and it descends into a juvenile slanging match based on party divides.

[gr4mmo]

@thebigJM92 Hear, hear! Unfortunately the juvenile slanging you talk of seems to have become commonplace between Labour and the Conservatives in general! Labour especially need to get out of that attitude if there is to be any hope for centre left politics in Britain.

[thebigJM92]

@gr4mmo Agreed! The two could work together on important issues for practical reasons quite easily, but they are so used to being at each others throats that they manage to bicker about every little thing. I mean in comparison to most countries the two parties are actually quite similar. Labour aren't socialist or communist and the Conservatives are hardly the Republican party!

[thebigJM92]

@gr4mmo Hopefully it wouldn't come down to that in a referendum on Scottish independence! I also hope there will be a strong turnout so no doubt can be thrown on the matter like occurred in 1979! I am conservative (with a small 'c') but not a neo-liberal in economic matters like the Conservative party has been since Thatcher. I'm more the Macmillan type, socially conservative but economically probably centre-left!

[thebigJM92]

@gr4mmo Don't get me wrong. If Scotland votes for its independence I will be for it happening as swiftly and efficiently as possible, with hopefully no bad blood and a permanently affable relationship between England and Scotland. Then if it DID all go wrong (and i'm not saying it would but just in case) then Britain could reform and deal with the problems itself rather than relying on Germany to bail us all out!

[mikesheen741]

If we're going to split the debt by population then I think we should split the North sea oil by population too.

[globaltraveller]

@mikesheen741 Immovable resources - assets and liabilities (such as Maritime resources - see UNCLOS) are split geographically. Other (moveable) debts and assets are split per capita.

Salmond makes a pertinent point. Scotland's fair share of the UK debt is £77bn. Only ONE part of our asset base has £1trn of future revenues left and that is before we raise any other taxes (on corporations, income etc). We are in a far, far better position in rUK.