it's a motion picture convention that cuts don't have to follow in time. In a montage a cut can jum forward and back several hours. In short cuts it's accepted time can "rewind" a bit as in double reaction shots as in:
First shot man punches other in face the shot ending with the fish touching face
Second shot close in on the punchee shows them being punched. Frame by frame it looks like they were hit twice.
Preface: I do not know rifles, only what I have read and heard:
I just finished reading "Chuck Connors, The Man Behind The Rifle", and on page 132, Chuck is quoted (I'm paraphrasing here) as saying, You hear 11 shots, but the weapon holds 8."
Also, the book states that the show takes place in the 1870's, yet I understand the rifle is from 1892. I didn't have time to read the previous comments. Hope you found this information interesting.
@doorsnut I've seen the holds 8 rounds quote, I own an 1892 and it holds 11. The only thing I can think of is that on set they never loaded more than 8 blanks, because Chuck would never fire more than that in any given scene.
FYI for whoever doesnt know: This rifle was specially made. It has a set screw with a lock nut in the trigger guard loop ring. So each time the loop is open and then shut, the trigger is automatically pulled. He could back the screw out and single fire, or move and lock it for rapid. The Co. still makes these exact rifles,same that made it for the show in CA. They cost $4000 each, and take 6 mos.
Now THAT is Americana, when this country was great. You can buy the exact rifle used on the show for $4000. custom Made. The company that made Connors rifle takes orders in CA, and it takes about 6 months to get. Id love to have one.
There doesn't have to be Brass Ejecting because Connors was the Rifleman & could use "Caseless Rounds" which He had gotten from a Top Secret Research & Development program run by the Department Of Defense, DARPA, & the Central Intelligence Agency. Essentially they were using Compressed Solid Rocket Fuel Bonded behind each Projectile with Super Adhesives! The Concept was to allow each Weapon to hold more Rounds & Reduce the Total Weight of a Combat Load by getting rid of all that extra Brass!
If you look at the 1st lever movement there is no round ejected but a round is being fed into the chamber and upon the lever closing that round goes off. He started off with nothing in the chamber.
According to Phil Schreier (the Senior Curator) at the National Firearms Museum, on an episode of the Curators Corner, the Winchester 1862 Saddle Ring could fire 12 shots. In the link below you can watch the video where they discuss large lever loop rifle that Connors used and the long-running television series The Rifleman.
@Agardner01 By putting one in the chamber, you would have 12 shots, pull the hammer back and pull the trigger, then cock for the 2nd shot. The way Chuck fires, he would eject the first shot out the chamber, leaving him only 11.
The editing of the intro makes it appear he is firing more rounds than the gun holds. It is only possible to fire 10 rounds out of that rifle the way he does it, he cocks it from the very start therefore proving there is not a round in the chamber to begin with. They edited the other shots in by using the close up to wide angle transition in order to end at the same time as the music. They did lots of odd ball things back then for "Dramatic Effect".
Conners does not pull the trigger with his finger when he's rapid firing. There is a YouTube video of one, if not the very first episode of the Rifleman and he is showing his rifle to someone and explaining how it works. I don't know how these rifles are normally setup, but there is a metal tab attached to the lever of his rifle so all he has to do is start cycling the lever and the tab pulls the trigger. I couldn't find the video again but its out there. He uses the trigger for singles.
11 With 1 in the chamber dumbshit! He had the leaver 1/4 open so he could activate the trigger screw and fire 12 times! I have the same loop leaver on my 30-30 with the same trigger screw!
@droners Where exactly does this video show Connors with the lever 1/4 open? And where does it show him closing it 1/4 before opening the lever fully?
@devroshart Your right. If the footage continued , you'd see he spins the rifle one more time which would have tripped the trigger but it was empty and he loads another shell. The guy above you is not only wrong , but extremely rude.
@devroshart Same with Clint Eastwood. He is left handed but in Dirty Harry he shoots with his right hand. At the end of the first movie he trows his badge into the water with his left hand. In the rifleman you see Conners picking up a pistol with his left hand.
He could not have fired more than 10 shots as the 1892 Winchester only held 11 total (10 in magazine, 1 in chamber) - I have the same model. The 12 shots heard are simply sound effects that are dubbed in & the film was spliced halfway through the firing sequence or this would have required a 12 round magazine.
Lucas McCain also carries a rifle that would not be invented for 10 more years as this series was supposed to take place in the early 1880s as dates are mentioned in various episodes.
I seen a tv program on the History Channel "Guns of The West" How he fired so many rounds so quickly was they welded a metal tit on the lever that bumped the trigger when cycled. Don't know about the 11 or 12 shots.
you know, 'the rifleman' and 'gunsmoke' had violent introductions and may be what inspired hollywood to use opening scenes for TV shows. rather than open with a violent gun-firing they could ease (or suck, if you will...)viewers into the story line, get their interest, and then BAM BAM BAM BAM, etc. viewers were less likely to turn it off. anybody out there know when they started using using opening scenes?
grassy knoll.... funny! of course the bleeding hearts of the network thought it was harsh and violent- the show opens with a man walking forward pumping a 44/40 like he was trying to kill king kong, and then shows a mean, 'don't fuck with me!' look on his face. remember that's all a lot of non-watchers saw before they got up and changed the channel. it's understandable.....
FYI on The Rifleman..although the series holds up very well because it was so well done.... SAM PECKINPAH quit the series after the first season (he co-created the show) because the network did not like the incredibly (for 1958!!) strong violence and harsh tone of the series. Although future seasons were good they didnt maintain the same rawness and graphic tone..although there certainly were a lot of gunfights per show. Lucas, as always ONLY defending himself, killed about 2 people a week lol
For YEARS it was listed on TV trivia sites asd firing 13 shots...but I have always maintained it was 12...on this slow video..it is clearly 12...12 is the answer..that model gun could not fire 13 times in a row anyway..>Does ANYONE know who OWNS the rights to The RIFLEMAN..I am working on a screenplay!
@mary32724 The oldest 'mistake' that the prop people have made on almost every western made from the silent "Bronco Billy" four reelers to the present films is to casually use guns that are anachronisms. I constantly see Winchester 73s in the circa 1865-70 films, '92s in the1880s shows. Colt 1873 Peacemakers in civil war films sometimes with mods to disguise the discrepancy. Colt 1917 .45s in the "Young Guns film. ( 1880s time frame).
I just asked the gun club guys down the street (ran into them at the gas station for morning coffee.) Blanks apparently are shorter and you can fit 1 extra round in the model apparently if the gun is a "tuber" (I have no clue what a tuber is).
@idgarad I will hazard a guess and say that it is an extended mag.(the tube under the barrel) Winchester, and yes, blanks are shorter. My 94ae holds 9 plus one in the chamber (I never do that)of .45 Colt rounds. Correction: I just compared the 5-in-one blanks that they used in the late 50s with my .45 Colt rounds. They ARE the same length. The 44-40s are the same length as the.45 Colt.
I haven't seen anyone mention that Lucas shoots right-handed when shooting from the hip, but left-handed when shooting from the shoulder, and aiming. Did he throw left-handed in baseball, and shoot leftie for the Celtics? Some of the Winchesters came with varied length magazines, some as long as the barrel, some shorter.
The caliber of bullets could affect the length of the cartridge, allowing various round counts for different rifles, even of the same model.
While watching some of the episodes, while he stated it was a 44/40 rifle, the bullets he had in his pocket were the size of 45 longs. The Winchesters back then had more capacity than todays'. Hench, besides TV magic, the 12th round. Besides, the Winchesters back then held up to 15...even 44/40s.
It was still a heck of a TV show that's still popular. Stop trying to take away the magic of old TV westerns.
If there was one in the chamber, he would have to pull the hammer back and pull the trigger, but he cocks the rifle which would eject the one in the chamber.
@devroshart watch it again. His finger goes to the trigger before he cocks and fires the second one which is why you hear the first round fire before he cocks. You see it better in slow motion and hear it. He shot all 12! BUT he darn sure didn't hit too much with all that mussel motion going on! That's why you don't fire from the hip unless the target is standing right in front of you or you're better than the average bear at shooting from the hip with a rifle! Aim and shoot not Spray and pray!
13 audible shots (just close your eyes and count), but only 12 visual cocking cycles. The audio was dubbed over. It was always confusing, and as kids we'd argue about this a lot. Whatever the case, The Rifleman was the toughest man in the West.
@devroshart HI AND THANKS FOR POST! You are absolutly correct, that was what he sats in the interview I was talking about..(BUT FEARED TO SAY IT)..! know the model well it can hold more. I have shot in "Sporting Shoots" over 2 million rounds , (MANY GUNS) no doubt it can hold more!! Still people get the idea that the "SHOTS FIRED" an the sound are one in the same.. "SUPERMAN AGAIN" he didn't make that "SWISHH" when he came in window!! Elvis did his "screen test" with a stringless GUTAR!
The soundtrack is part of the confusion, as Connors cocks the rifle you can hear part of a gunshot which some people count, so year hear 12.5 shots and see 12. I saw Connors in 1963 at the Houston Fat Stock Show, where he fired his rifle, which was loud but didn't sound like the show, confusing to a 9 year old.
Probably the greatest intro to a show I have ever seen. It was short, loud, explosive & Conners just looked so cool & confident. "The Wild Wild West" gets the most creative intro & I wish Chuck appeared as the Rifleman in that show. In many episodes McCain said: he modified the rifle. So whether the rifle could shoot this or that many shells -- hell, it was like a mini-machine gun. I don't care if it's fiction -- that rifle just sounds sweet. Wonder what Annie Oakley would have thought?
What a great show!! As to how many shots.... in that clip there is a "cut away"... others show it in one secquence! still this is "SHOW BIZ"..... it's like wondering "HOW FAST COULD SUPERMAN FLY"? I have a DVD With CHUCK CONNORS>>> Intrducing some of his favorate episodes, and TELLING BEHIND THE SCENE STORIES! The MAN HIMSELF says the gun fired much fewer than 11,12,or 13! THAT IT WAS DONE BY "The people in FILMING AND AUDIO!! Unless you think he lied??
I've read where Chuck said it only held 8, which I can't figure out. I own a 1892 44/40 and it definitely holds 11 shells. The only thing I can think of is that on set they never loaded more than 8 blanks for scenes and Chuck never realized it could hold more.
@devroshart Were the 92 carbines longer than the 94s? The mag tube does come up to the muzzle on both. The 44-40 round is the same length as the 5-in-one blanks they were using in the late 1950s. .45 Colt round is the same length.
I may be missing something but does any one see any spent shells being ejected during the scene and after eight to twelve rounds, why isn't there any smoke from the heat of the barrel. After 8 consecutive rounds the barrel should be plenty hot!!
The folks around me came up with 11, 12 or 13. Nobody could agree. The problem is the audio starts as Connors cocks the first round and people count this as the first shot. Visually he fires 12 times. There is a splice in the film, so the editor could have made 20 shots if he wanted.
How will I sleep tonight? You bastards! Leave Chuck alone! He was doing the best he could with his twelve shooter that shot thirteen rounds in an eleven round rifle!
There was an episode of Married with Children where Al was reflecting on this and talked about him and his son and he asked quote"I wonder was that his Wife he was shooting at in the beginning of the show?"LOL
Who cares anyway, those Hollywood 6 guns shot all day long with out reloading. You think the guys who edited this stuff even knew how many rounds a Winchester 94 held. . Im with the coporal4 on this one.
I'm just a year older than you, the kids in your school didn't debate how many shots? For over 50 years, I heard people say 11, 12 or 13. The real problem is he's shown firing 12, but the audio starts as he cocks his first shot.
As far as who cares, over 43,000 cared enough to check.
@Lolyf55 they are supposed to have a gun wrangler on the set to load the guns with the exact amount to be fired they dont want any accidents like john eric hexum
Please remember that this was in the days here John Wayne would shoot one Indian and 5 would fall down. Hugh O'Brian played Wyatt Earp, but as the marshal in Tombstone he had no mustache the real Earp did and didn't carry the buntline. In the begining of the show called Colt 45 he fires both pistols and has more ammo then they carry. Val Kilmers Doc didn't get hit in the movie Tombstone, but got hit in Wyatt Earp, which really happened. Hell just enjoy the movie and T.V. series they were good.
Fact of the matter: The Rifleman owns the street. Without breaking stride: Down range there are any number of badasses eating dirt . Just to make certain YOU aren't going to start anything: he's got his eye on you, too. He keeps an extra round in his shirtpocket. He's reloaded that winchester so many times he could do it blindfolded...with it now chambered The Rifleman watches to see if you want to be the next guy to start something ???....a couple paces later...
Because of modifications in the breech that stage rifle could only (safely) fire blanks. These blanks, while having to have rounded ends that would feed through the gun were probable less long than standard ammo. To make room for one more round would mean each blank need only be about 1/8-inch shorter.
Watch his legs in slow motion at the seventh shot his left leg is coming forward. Then when the second camera angle takes over, the eight shot is with his right leg coming forward. The question is really a vague mute point. Two pieces of film edited together showing the rifle firing 12 times. Great series!
There are two clips edited together, two camera angles. Eight rounds fired in the close up, four in the long shot. They COULD have shown him firing 11 rounds in each cut for a total of 22, but I guess the film editor thought 12 worked best and didn't care that it wasn't accurate. Then again, one in the chamber and 11 in the clip makes sense.
@devroshart EmailGuy is right. The video shows twelve, but the audio plays 13 shots. I played it back thrice to make sure I was hearing and counting right. He fires off 12, but there's one extra shot heard.
@9x19mmProductions "In addition i think 13 total shots are heard though in total" Hes right about that audio plays 13 shots, the lever shows 12 shots tho...
The Henry rifle, the forerunner of the Winchester, held 17 rounds. That's why Confederate troops called it "that damned Yankee rifle that you load on Sunday and fire all week." It didn't have a side loading port, though.
I'm not at all a firearms expert. The series took place in the 1880's. Was this model Winchester even made then? 11 or 12 what does it matter? I don't think this model was even invented yet.
The model used was an 1892 44-40, so it didn't exist. As far as 11, 12 or 13, that's been a debate among Rifleman fans for over 50 years. Connors fires too fast for anyone to agree on how many shots. This video finally answered the question for certain.
In the episode "TWO OUNCES OF TIN" (Sammy Davis Jr) at the end they show the grave cross had "Tip Corey Died 1884". So that 1892 rifle was made AFTER that!
You kind of have to use your imagination with the Micahs shotgun deal. When the camera was not on him is when he reloaded. If you watch again.. when the camera changes to the zoom out. he is continuing the shot that was started when the camera was zoomed in. I got into this series on hulu about two weeks ago and I am hooked. I'm 43.
It was a late 50's to early 60's TV show. Unless it was for suspense, NOBODY had to reload their guns....hence while Lucas shot 12 times for the beginning and only placed ONE round back into the breech, the guns would shoot numerous times, to including Micah's shotgun that only held 2 shots. I saw one episode where he shot 6 shots, but only reloaded once.
62 years old, saw them when they were new...still watch today.
The real point of the video was to answer the trivia question hardly anyone gets right. For 50 years I heard folks say 11, 12 or 13. I've read that it was 11 with an extra shot added to the soundtrack to time with the music.
The real truth is Chuck Connors took two takes firing the rifle. One take for the close up, and one take for the mid-range shot, then the two takes were edited together to get the 12 shots.
The Rifleman's rifle was a modified Winchester 1892. It had a screw pin on the looped lever. The Rifleman did NOT pull the trigger. The screw pin caused the weapon to fire when the ring was slammed down.
It one episode some cowboy got ahold of it and called it a 'trick rifle'. That screw pin was the trick. However a couple of turns of the screw pin changed it from a 'slip hammer gun' back to normally function carbine rifle.
@Doamino41 Three points. First, left-handedness was considered a bad sign until the mid-20th century -- left-handers were generally "broken" to use their right hands -- so back in the 1800s (when the series was set) he wouldn't have shot from the left. Second, the empties eject up and to the right, so he would have been flanging hot brass right in his face and into pockets. Lastly, it just plain wouldn't have looked right to viewers.
I can understand why shooting right handed would look better but I think devrosharts reply was right on the money. It looks to me like he was ambidextrous even though I've never seen him shoot right handed any other time.
You might be right about left handers in the 1800s but I dont hink thats why they chose to have him shoot right handed.For whatever reason,,it was a wise decision.
That's what it says in the books, the slow motion film shows him firing 12. The film was spliced together, a close up and a medium shot, he could have fired up to 22 shots, 11 shots each for 2 takes, then edited together.
He obviously fired 12 rounds. If they were blanks they could have been shorter than standard rounds and more would fit in the tube. Also if they are real bullets, they may have been wadcutters or semi-wadcutters deeply seated.
After you had the rifle a couple of years the spring in the tube mag gets compressed and you can get another one or two rounds in but you really should oughtta change the spring at that point or the feed can get sloppy and fail
When you make your own ammo like he did! You can easilly seat those homemade bullets deep enough to hold 1, and even 2 more bullets than normal, etc.. Did it all the time with my 1894 Marlin so the bullet base was right on top of the powder charge where it belongs.
Oh, and hey folks, I have and explanation of the disputed 11 or 12 rounds "released"
Frame 0:14 at the six-to seventh round they cut to a wide shot. At the seventh round shown in the wide shot is actually the "6Th" round which would account for the misinterpretation. Blame it on editing.
But then again...this was just a TV show. No need to get specific and real about the technical details. Hey, it could have been 15 rounds or more. Doesn't matter. The rifleman was just plain cool,
I believe the show took place in 1882.
stuka52 2 days ago
Comment removed
pbrick6301 3 days ago
14 shots
iphonexboxbikes 1 week ago
Well there was a cut mid firing sequence.
it's a motion picture convention that cuts don't have to follow in time. In a montage a cut can jum forward and back several hours. In short cuts it's accepted time can "rewind" a bit as in double reaction shots as in:
First shot man punches other in face the shot ending with the fish touching face
Second shot close in on the punchee shows them being punched. Frame by frame it looks like they were hit twice.
Treblaine 3 weeks ago
Preface: I do not know rifles, only what I have read and heard:
I just finished reading "Chuck Connors, The Man Behind The Rifle", and on page 132, Chuck is quoted (I'm paraphrasing here) as saying, You hear 11 shots, but the weapon holds 8."
Also, the book states that the show takes place in the 1870's, yet I understand the rifle is from 1892. I didn't have time to read the previous comments. Hope you found this information interesting.
doorsnut 3 weeks ago
@doorsnut I've seen the holds 8 rounds quote, I own an 1892 and it holds 11. The only thing I can think of is that on set they never loaded more than 8 blanks, because Chuck would never fire more than that in any given scene.
devroshart 3 weeks ago
FYI for whoever doesnt know: This rifle was specially made. It has a set screw with a lock nut in the trigger guard loop ring. So each time the loop is open and then shut, the trigger is automatically pulled. He could back the screw out and single fire, or move and lock it for rapid. The Co. still makes these exact rifles,same that made it for the show in CA. They cost $4000 each, and take 6 mos.
MegaBob77777 3 weeks ago
Now THAT is Americana, when this country was great. You can buy the exact rifle used on the show for $4000. custom Made. The company that made Connors rifle takes orders in CA, and it takes about 6 months to get. Id love to have one.
MegaBob77777 3 weeks ago
He is just that good!
pj21mm393 3 weeks ago
Had one in the chamber maybe? Awesome show. I watch them every saturday morning on AMC.
taofledermaus 1 month ago
There doesn't have to be Brass Ejecting because Connors was the Rifleman & could use "Caseless Rounds" which He had gotten from a Top Secret Research & Development program run by the Department Of Defense, DARPA, & the Central Intelligence Agency. Essentially they were using Compressed Solid Rocket Fuel Bonded behind each Projectile with Super Adhesives! The Concept was to allow each Weapon to hold more Rounds & Reduce the Total Weight of a Combat Load by getting rid of all that extra Brass!
ZEEMADMAN2 1 month ago
wow who cares lets get over techncal
namvet7275 2 months ago
@namvet7275 Aside from the 96,000+ who viewed the video, I guess no one cares. I get over technical all the time, all my bar bets are based on it.
devroshart 2 months ago
Chuck Norris (and I) doesn't need a slow-motion to count the shots!
traktorensteff 2 months ago
If you look at the 1st lever movement there is no round ejected but a round is being fed into the chamber and upon the lever closing that round goes off. He started off with nothing in the chamber.
computerwizard1959 2 months ago
According to Phil Schreier (the Senior Curator) at the National Firearms Museum, on an episode of the Curators Corner, the Winchester 1862 Saddle Ring could fire 12 shots. In the link below you can watch the video where they discuss large lever loop rifle that Connors used and the long-running television series The Rifleman.
Agardner01 2 months ago
@Agardner01 By putting one in the chamber, you would have 12 shots, pull the hammer back and pull the trigger, then cock for the 2nd shot. The way Chuck fires, he would eject the first shot out the chamber, leaving him only 11.
devroshart 2 months ago
@Agardner01 He fired 6 shots. 2 Bangs per bullet
daytraderfbf 2 months ago
The editing of the intro makes it appear he is firing more rounds than the gun holds. It is only possible to fire 10 rounds out of that rifle the way he does it, he cocks it from the very start therefore proving there is not a round in the chamber to begin with. They edited the other shots in by using the close up to wide angle transition in order to end at the same time as the music. They did lots of odd ball things back then for "Dramatic Effect".
thewonderfrog 2 months ago
My eyes aren't that great, but I don't see any brass coming out of that Winchester.
abaton7 2 months ago
He shot 13 times according to the sound. Listen, don't look.
BobbyORiley 2 months ago
@BobbyORiley Exactly! Finally. Thank you. The gun holds 13 rounds including the chambered round.
brucekimber 2 months ago
Conners does not pull the trigger with his finger when he's rapid firing. There is a YouTube video of one, if not the very first episode of the Rifleman and he is showing his rifle to someone and explaining how it works. I don't know how these rifles are normally setup, but there is a metal tab attached to the lever of his rifle so all he has to do is start cycling the lever and the tab pulls the trigger. I couldn't find the video again but its out there. He uses the trigger for singles.
herbiesnerd 3 months ago
11 With 1 in the chamber dumbshit! He had the leaver 1/4 open so he could activate the trigger screw and fire 12 times! I have the same loop leaver on my 30-30 with the same trigger screw!
droners 3 months ago
@droners Where exactly does this video show Connors with the lever 1/4 open? And where does it show him closing it 1/4 before opening the lever fully?
devroshart 3 months ago
@devroshart Your right. If the footage continued , you'd see he spins the rifle one more time which would have tripped the trigger but it was empty and he loads another shell. The guy above you is not only wrong , but extremely rude.
terry358 2 months ago
Does anyone else think it's odd that Chuck batted and threw left when he was a baseball player, yet he shoots a rifle right-handed?
gmdinformation 3 months ago
@gmdinformation Chuck was a switch hitter with both bat and rifle.
devroshart 3 months ago
@devroshart
I heard the samething but I still think he favored his left hand more than his right .
Doamino41 3 months ago
@devroshart Same with Clint Eastwood. He is left handed but in Dirty Harry he shoots with his right hand. At the end of the first movie he trows his badge into the water with his left hand. In the rifleman you see Conners picking up a pistol with his left hand.
TheJer1963 2 months ago
@gmdinformation Guess that explains it!
gmdinformation 3 months ago
The rifle was real pain in the ass. I heard it broke all the time, so they had more then one built.
WizzRacing 4 months ago
He could not have fired more than 10 shots as the 1892 Winchester only held 11 total (10 in magazine, 1 in chamber) - I have the same model. The 12 shots heard are simply sound effects that are dubbed in & the film was spliced halfway through the firing sequence or this would have required a 12 round magazine.
Lucas McCain also carries a rifle that would not be invented for 10 more years as this series was supposed to take place in the early 1880s as dates are mentioned in various episodes.
CaneFu 4 months ago 2
I got 13
LeMcCHarStar4ever 4 months ago
I seen a tv program on the History Channel "Guns of The West" How he fired so many rounds so quickly was they welded a metal tit on the lever that bumped the trigger when cycled. Don't know about the 11 or 12 shots.
jammingmopar 4 months ago
13 times.
wayneldrummond1 5 months ago
could it be a remake in a differt cal like the 30/30 or 45 lc
MrBrandonannette 5 months ago
A gun with an altered or weak magazine tube spring could hold one or two more rounds.
ericktamberg 6 months ago
que importan los números, si quedó fantástico!
911escorpio 6 months ago
If that was a 44-40 I don't see how he could have fired 12 because the mag doesn't hold that much. If I'm wrong please correct my thinking.
joshweiss01 6 months ago
you know, 'the rifleman' and 'gunsmoke' had violent introductions and may be what inspired hollywood to use opening scenes for TV shows. rather than open with a violent gun-firing they could ease (or suck, if you will...)viewers into the story line, get their interest, and then BAM BAM BAM BAM, etc. viewers were less likely to turn it off. anybody out there know when they started using using opening scenes?
swimmerB0B 6 months ago
maybe a tuber has no cap-liner tube on its feed?? gun guys??
swimmerB0B 6 months ago
grassy knoll.... funny! of course the bleeding hearts of the network thought it was harsh and violent- the show opens with a man walking forward pumping a 44/40 like he was trying to kill king kong, and then shows a mean, 'don't fuck with me!' look on his face. remember that's all a lot of non-watchers saw before they got up and changed the channel. it's understandable.....
swimmerB0B 6 months ago
FYI on The Rifleman..although the series holds up very well because it was so well done.... SAM PECKINPAH quit the series after the first season (he co-created the show) because the network did not like the incredibly (for 1958!!) strong violence and harsh tone of the series. Although future seasons were good they didnt maintain the same rawness and graphic tone..although there certainly were a lot of gunfights per show. Lucas, as always ONLY defending himself, killed about 2 people a week lol
DavelovesRealMusic 6 months ago
For YEARS it was listed on TV trivia sites asd firing 13 shots...but I have always maintained it was 12...on this slow video..it is clearly 12...12 is the answer..that model gun could not fire 13 times in a row anyway..>Does ANYONE know who OWNS the rights to The RIFLEMAN..I am working on a screenplay!
DavelovesRealMusic 6 months ago
The series takes place in 1881 per a few episodes. Even granting a year or two, how does he get a 1892 rifle????
mary32724 6 months ago
@mary32724 The oldest 'mistake' that the prop people have made on almost every western made from the silent "Bronco Billy" four reelers to the present films is to casually use guns that are anachronisms. I constantly see Winchester 73s in the circa 1865-70 films, '92s in the1880s shows. Colt 1873 Peacemakers in civil war films sometimes with mods to disguise the discrepancy. Colt 1917 .45s in the "Young Guns film. ( 1880s time frame).
joshweiss01 6 months ago
i counted 13
walksnomore 6 months ago
I just asked the gun club guys down the street (ran into them at the gas station for morning coffee.) Blanks apparently are shorter and you can fit 1 extra round in the model apparently if the gun is a "tuber" (I have no clue what a tuber is).
idgarad 6 months ago
@idgarad Isn't a tuber what we do on this site ? LOL..
blueticecho 6 months ago
@idgarad I will hazard a guess and say that it is an extended mag.(the tube under the barrel) Winchester, and yes, blanks are shorter. My 94ae holds 9 plus one in the chamber (I never do that)of .45 Colt rounds. Correction: I just compared the 5-in-one blanks that they used in the late 50s with my .45 Colt rounds. They ARE the same length. The 44-40s are the same length as the.45 Colt.
joshweiss01 6 months ago
I haven't seen anyone mention that Lucas shoots right-handed when shooting from the hip, but left-handed when shooting from the shoulder, and aiming. Did he throw left-handed in baseball, and shoot leftie for the Celtics? Some of the Winchesters came with varied length magazines, some as long as the barrel, some shorter.
The caliber of bullets could affect the length of the cartridge, allowing various round counts for different rifles, even of the same model.
mplstim56 6 months ago
I didn't see any spent rifle cartridges ejected from the chamber, from on top of the receiver, I only saw gun-smoke, did any else see this too?
RalphMariedeLargo 7 months ago
Modified 1892 from Stembridge Gunsmiths...held only 11 rounds. The 12 th shot was dubbed in.
garygerman13 7 months ago
Depends on the barrel length. The 16" Trappers will hold 7 + 1, The 20" carbines hold 10 + 1 and the 24" rifles hold 12 + 1.
rickysmithwingate 7 months ago
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the gun was modified so i prob held more then the standard
BTBGrimDeathBTB 7 months ago
he fired 14 times in a row. that is the correct answer.
skotyboy01 7 months ago
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Has anyone considered the following...
1: Blank cartridges were being used for filming.
2: Blanks do not have bullets and are thus shorter than the original cartridge.
3: The Winchester uses a tubular magazine, you know bullets end to end.
4: Thus twelve 12 blanks would fit into a magazine designed for 11 cartridges.
5: Yawn.
Thelonesniper101 7 months ago
Okay.
While watching some of the episodes, while he stated it was a 44/40 rifle, the bullets he had in his pocket were the size of 45 longs. The Winchesters back then had more capacity than todays'. Hench, besides TV magic, the 12th round. Besides, the Winchesters back then held up to 15...even 44/40s.
It was still a heck of a TV show that's still popular. Stop trying to take away the magic of old TV westerns.
smcconnico 7 months ago
11 in holding 1 in chamber = 12.
PremiumBlank 7 months ago
If there was one in the chamber, he would have to pull the hammer back and pull the trigger, but he cocks the rifle which would eject the one in the chamber.
devroshart 7 months ago
@devroshart watch it again. His finger goes to the trigger before he cocks and fires the second one which is why you hear the first round fire before he cocks. You see it better in slow motion and hear it. He shot all 12! BUT he darn sure didn't hit too much with all that mussel motion going on! That's why you don't fire from the hip unless the target is standing right in front of you or you're better than the average bear at shooting from the hip with a rifle! Aim and shoot not Spray and pray!
rolloverriderpgr 3 months ago
@rolloverriderpgr Uh, we must me watching two different videos, Connor's finger is always outside the trigger guard in the one I'm watching.
devroshart 3 months ago
13 audible shots (just close your eyes and count), but only 12 visual cocking cycles. The audio was dubbed over. It was always confusing, and as kids we'd argue about this a lot. Whatever the case, The Rifleman was the toughest man in the West.
scizenscizen 7 months ago
12 is what i always thought.
aknowneemus 8 months ago
Hawaii 5-0 is also great.
390bullitt1968 8 months ago
i cant believe i got that one right after all these years..but i knew it.. 12 shots..i lways counted !!..loved that show !
TrainBridge1 8 months ago
@devroshart HI AND THANKS FOR POST! You are absolutly correct, that was what he sats in the interview I was talking about..(BUT FEARED TO SAY IT)..! know the model well it can hold more. I have shot in "Sporting Shoots" over 2 million rounds , (MANY GUNS) no doubt it can hold more!! Still people get the idea that the "SHOTS FIRED" an the sound are one in the same.. "SUPERMAN AGAIN" he didn't make that "SWISHH" when he came in window!! Elvis did his "screen test" with a stringless GUTAR!
quiettman11 8 months ago
The soundtrack is part of the confusion, as Connors cocks the rifle you can hear part of a gunshot which some people count, so year hear 12.5 shots and see 12. I saw Connors in 1963 at the Houston Fat Stock Show, where he fired his rifle, which was loud but didn't sound like the show, confusing to a 9 year old.
devroshart 8 months ago
Probably the greatest intro to a show I have ever seen. It was short, loud, explosive & Conners just looked so cool & confident. "The Wild Wild West" gets the most creative intro & I wish Chuck appeared as the Rifleman in that show. In many episodes McCain said: he modified the rifle. So whether the rifle could shoot this or that many shells -- hell, it was like a mini-machine gun. I don't care if it's fiction -- that rifle just sounds sweet. Wonder what Annie Oakley would have thought?
lastrada52 8 months ago
What a great show!! As to how many shots.... in that clip there is a "cut away"... others show it in one secquence! still this is "SHOW BIZ"..... it's like wondering "HOW FAST COULD SUPERMAN FLY"? I have a DVD With CHUCK CONNORS>>> Intrducing some of his favorate episodes, and TELLING BEHIND THE SCENE STORIES! The MAN HIMSELF says the gun fired much fewer than 11,12,or 13! THAT IT WAS DONE BY "The people in FILMING AND AUDIO!! Unless you think he lied??
quiettman11 8 months ago
I've read where Chuck said it only held 8, which I can't figure out. I own a 1892 44/40 and it definitely holds 11 shells. The only thing I can think of is that on set they never loaded more than 8 blanks for scenes and Chuck never realized it could hold more.
devroshart 8 months ago
@devroshart Were the 92 carbines longer than the 94s? The mag tube does come up to the muzzle on both. The 44-40 round is the same length as the 5-in-one blanks they were using in the late 1950s. .45 Colt round is the same length.
joshweiss01 6 months ago
hell i can't even figure out HOW he's shooting much less how many shots haha
peariverbirddog 8 months ago
WELL I'LL BE DING-DANGED
cuneo1950 8 months ago
It was 2 bangs per bullet. So 6 bullets were fired
daytraderfbf 8 months ago
He shot 6. 2 bangs per bullet.
daytraderfbf 8 months ago
I may be missing something but does any one see any spent shells being ejected during the scene and after eight to twelve rounds, why isn't there any smoke from the heat of the barrel. After 8 consecutive rounds the barrel should be plenty hot!!
berniebush 8 months ago
Chuck Connors, the only western star of his time who actually had to reload.
vraydio 8 months ago
11 in the tube and 1 more in the chamber maybe?
doubledfire 9 months ago
he did 12 shots
CMLMVL 9 months ago
He fired 12, and a 13th shot was dubbed in, this is common knowledge.
neckarsulme 9 months ago
i thought this was settled decades ago?! they use blanks on tv and movies.making rounds shorter, and in tube fed guns, you can fit more rounds.
Chorizosabroso 10 months ago
The folks around me came up with 11, 12 or 13. Nobody could agree. The problem is the audio starts as Connors cocks the first round and people count this as the first shot. Visually he fires 12 times. There is a splice in the film, so the editor could have made 20 shots if he wanted.
devroshart 10 months ago
He's shown firing 12, but there is the partial sound of a gunshot when he cocks the lever for the first time.
devroshart 10 months ago
13
XShotGuyX 10 months ago
If you watch every other shot he ejects the shell. That should be every shot
KB1PTH 11 months ago
It's simple.
Blanks are a bit shorter than real cartridges loaded with bullets are.
Chuck Connors was of course shooting blanks in this rifle, and they put as many in as the rifle would hold for effect.
The difference between cartridge and blank length, is enough to allow an extra blank round to be loaded into the rifle's tubular magazine.
Conan568 11 months ago
Just like in tombstone Doc Holiday must have had 90 bullets in those two six shooters.
Tadaoooo 11 months ago
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11 times more than he needed to! ...
brobdingnagianjackas 11 months ago
How will I sleep tonight? You bastards! Leave Chuck alone! He was doing the best he could with his twelve shooter that shot thirteen rounds in an eleven round rifle!
ag123789 11 months ago
He fired them all !! Go Chuck ! You should have been President. !
BYORK7 1 year ago
He got an extra shot out as a "shout out" 'cause he's The Rifleman.
So stop knitpicking.
Thanks.
vassephardi 1 year ago
At the end of the first angle, the left leg was ahead, and on the second angle, the right leg was ahead.
OleSouthernGentleman 1 year ago
remember this cowboy show with great respect, 50,60s cowboys were the best by a mile,,
robharding1957 1 year ago
There was an episode of Married with Children where Al was reflecting on this and talked about him and his son and he asked quote"I wonder was that his Wife he was shooting at in the beginning of the show?"LOL
Airsoftcleaner 1 year ago
P.S. I"m sorry for miss identifing the model Winchester that is used .
Lolyf55 1 year ago
Sorry I'm not a bean counter. I'll send you a personal , devorshart , friendly of course.
Lolyf55 1 year ago
Who cares anyway, those Hollywood 6 guns shot all day long with out reloading. You think the guys who edited this stuff even knew how many rounds a Winchester 94 held. . Im with the coporal4 on this one.
Lolyf55 1 year ago
I'm just a year older than you, the kids in your school didn't debate how many shots? For over 50 years, I heard people say 11, 12 or 13. The real problem is he's shown firing 12, but the audio starts as he cocks his first shot.
As far as who cares, over 43,000 cared enough to check.
devroshart 1 year ago
@Lolyf55 they are supposed to have a gun wrangler on the set to load the guns with the exact amount to be fired they dont want any accidents like john eric hexum
spacepatrolman 11 months ago
Never mind how many shots were fired....how many casings were ejected? NONE.
Systemaman 1 year ago
the gun held 11 i think its when it shows just his hip and when they switch they probobly just miss counted back then when it was made lol
78camarob 1 year ago
Please remember that this was in the days here John Wayne would shoot one Indian and 5 would fall down. Hugh O'Brian played Wyatt Earp, but as the marshal in Tombstone he had no mustache the real Earp did and didn't carry the buntline. In the begining of the show called Colt 45 he fires both pistols and has more ammo then they carry. Val Kilmers Doc didn't get hit in the movie Tombstone, but got hit in Wyatt Earp, which really happened. Hell just enjoy the movie and T.V. series they were good.
coporal4 1 year ago
I count 12 shots. And I'm typing this even before I've seen the replay. Right now the video is paused at 0:07
TheNewRiflemanBob 1 year ago
Fact of the matter: The Rifleman owns the street. Without breaking stride: Down range there are any number of badasses eating dirt . Just to make certain YOU aren't going to start anything: he's got his eye on you, too. He keeps an extra round in his shirtpocket. He's reloaded that winchester so many times he could do it blindfolded...with it now chambered The Rifleman watches to see if you want to be the next guy to start something ???....a couple paces later...
Nope...he didnt think so.
s6u6r6f6 1 year ago
Because of modifications in the breech that stage rifle could only (safely) fire blanks. These blanks, while having to have rounded ends that would feed through the gun were probable less long than standard ammo. To make room for one more round would mean each blank need only be about 1/8-inch shorter.
jamessadtler 1 year ago
Watch his legs in slow motion at the seventh shot his left leg is coming forward. Then when the second camera angle takes over, the eight shot is with his right leg coming forward. The question is really a vague mute point. Two pieces of film edited together showing the rifle firing 12 times. Great series!
mechanic957 1 year ago
but remember his rifle was special made
parkkrr 1 year ago
There are two clips edited together, two camera angles. Eight rounds fired in the close up, four in the long shot. They COULD have shown him firing 11 rounds in each cut for a total of 22, but I guess the film editor thought 12 worked best and didn't care that it wasn't accurate. Then again, one in the chamber and 11 in the clip makes sense.
satweavers 1 year ago
11 bullets in the rifle, 1 in the chamber for 12 shots.
BibleMadeSimple 1 year ago 6
If he had one in the chamber, he cocked it out. Otherwise He'd have to cock the hammer back and let go, since the trigger is already depressed
devroshart 1 year ago
@BibleMadeSimple Good point.
whisperingdeath308 1 year ago
@BibleMadeSimple Exactly!
L0GAN811 8 months ago
Lol The audio plays 13 shots...
TheEmailGuy 1 year ago
listen again, at slow motion, it's 12.
devroshart 1 year ago
@devroshart EmailGuy is right. The video shows twelve, but the audio plays 13 shots. I played it back thrice to make sure I was hearing and counting right. He fires off 12, but there's one extra shot heard.
57Will 1 year ago
I went back, and before he cocks the first shot, I hear the very tail end of a rifle being fired. If you count that sound, then it's 13.
devroshart 1 year ago
I believe the answer is 11.
This is because a close-up shot is duplicated when the 2nd camara (zoomed-out) took over.
In addition i think 13 total shots are heard though in total, perhaps 1 extra due to the duplication + 1 from the grassy knoll?! :)
9x19mmProductions 1 year ago 7
Good eye, it was two takes edited together. Before the edit he's cocking his rifle and finishes firing after the edit.
devroshart 1 year ago
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@9x19mmProductions "In addition i think 13 total shots are heard though in total" Hes right about that audio plays 13 shots, the lever shows 12 shots tho...
TheEmailGuy 1 year ago
@9x19mmProductions Problem? lol
loquendero90XD 1 year ago
The Spencer had its magazine in the butt.
sbflash311 1 year ago
hey i heard 13 shots too
perc3pt 1 year ago
The Henry rifle, the forerunner of the Winchester, held 17 rounds. That's why Confederate troops called it "that damned Yankee rifle that you load on Sunday and fire all week." It didn't have a side loading port, though.
sbflash311 1 year ago
@sbflash311 Coz I think It has its magazine in the butt of the gun.
Detoyato 1 year ago
I'm not at all a firearms expert. The series took place in the 1880's. Was this model Winchester even made then? 11 or 12 what does it matter? I don't think this model was even invented yet.
tl1358 1 year ago
The model used was an 1892 44-40, so it didn't exist. As far as 11, 12 or 13, that's been a debate among Rifleman fans for over 50 years. Connors fires too fast for anyone to agree on how many shots. This video finally answered the question for certain.
devroshart 1 year ago
@devroshart No matter. It was still a good TV show! You don't see shows like this today. Thanks for the posting.
tl1358 1 year ago
I thought it was 13?
In the episode "TWO OUNCES OF TIN" (Sammy Davis Jr) at the end they show the grave cross had "Tip Corey Died 1884". So that 1892 rifle was made AFTER that!
HOLLYWOOD!!!
umajunkcollector 1 year ago
Love that show.
Bottomf 1 year ago
The opening clip is from an unreleased episode where he shoots down his wife and thus becomes a single parent . . .
according to Al Bundy.
More trivia questions;
How many people did McCain shoot dead?
How many did Little Joe Cartwright shoot dead?
JohnRinNoHo 1 year ago
You kind of have to use your imagination with the Micahs shotgun deal. When the camera was not on him is when he reloaded. If you watch again.. when the camera changes to the zoom out. he is continuing the shot that was started when the camera was zoomed in. I got into this series on hulu about two weeks ago and I am hooked. I'm 43.
Amutt1066 1 year ago
Okay devroshart....Let's not get technical.
It was a late 50's to early 60's TV show. Unless it was for suspense, NOBODY had to reload their guns....hence while Lucas shot 12 times for the beginning and only placed ONE round back into the breech, the guns would shoot numerous times, to including Micah's shotgun that only held 2 shots. I saw one episode where he shot 6 shots, but only reloaded once.
62 years old, saw them when they were new...still watch today.
sm9847 1 year ago
The real point of the video was to answer the trivia question hardly anyone gets right. For 50 years I heard folks say 11, 12 or 13. I've read that it was 11 with an extra shot added to the soundtrack to time with the music.
The real truth is Chuck Connors took two takes firing the rifle. One take for the close up, and one take for the mid-range shot, then the two takes were edited together to get the 12 shots.
devroshart 1 year ago
He had one in the chamber.....hence the 12th round.
Who cares...it's a trivia question hardly anyone gets right.
sm9847 1 year ago
He would have cocked out one in the chamber, he didn't pull the trigger first. So far over 24,000 cared enough to take a look, including yourself.
devroshart 1 year ago
@devroshart "So far over 24,000 cared enough to take a look, including yourself."
That's 32,422. :)
priamel 1 year ago
Winchester presents.. Swiss Cheese.
tboltjohn 1 year ago
@tboltjohn
lol
Doamino41 1 year ago
McCain was better with rifles than Norris was with karate.
skirts365 1 year ago
The Rifleman's rifle was a modified Winchester 1892. It had a screw pin on the looped lever. The Rifleman did NOT pull the trigger. The screw pin caused the weapon to fire when the ring was slammed down.
It one episode some cowboy got ahold of it and called it a 'trick rifle'. That screw pin was the trick. However a couple of turns of the screw pin changed it from a 'slip hammer gun' back to normally function carbine rifle.
There is a
CFPollmaker 1 year ago
Only Chuck Connors can shoot 12 rounds from an 11 round Winchester lol
DaUsher 1 year ago
This is obviously two takes edited together (vs part 2,clearly filmed in one take). Edit three takes together and get 33 shots, and so on.
With this said, has anyone considered the following.
1: Blank cartridges were being used for filming.
2: Blanks do not have bullets and are thus shorter than the original cartridge.
3: The Winchester uses a tubular magazine, you know bullets end to end.
4: Thus twelve 12 blanks just might fit into a magazine designed for 11 cartridges.
5: Yawn, next.
imtinsbrother 1 year ago
12...shots
RUSTYMARX 1 year ago
Hasnt anyone noticed he was shooting RIGHT handed? We all know Chuck was LEFT handed
Doamino41 1 year ago
He was ambidextrous, he was a switch hitter in Baseball and gun play. Made it convenient firing around corners, using either hand.
devroshart 1 year ago
@devroshart
I didnt know that,,,thanx for the info :)
Doamino41 1 year ago
@Doamino41 Three points. First, left-handedness was considered a bad sign until the mid-20th century -- left-handers were generally "broken" to use their right hands -- so back in the 1800s (when the series was set) he wouldn't have shot from the left. Second, the empties eject up and to the right, so he would have been flanging hot brass right in his face and into pockets. Lastly, it just plain wouldn't have looked right to viewers.
SoloPilot6 1 year ago
@SoloPilot6
I can understand why shooting right handed would look better but I think devrosharts reply was right on the money. It looks to me like he was ambidextrous even though I've never seen him shoot right handed any other time.
You might be right about left handers in the 1800s but I dont hink thats why they chose to have him shoot right handed.For whatever reason,,it was a wise decision.
Doamino41 1 year ago
p.s. you can see the screw under his index finger in the video if you look closely.
clay523 1 year ago
Only one problem, that's not Chuck.
locknez1munster 1 year ago
That's what it says in the books, the slow motion film shows him firing 12. The film was spliced together, a close up and a medium shot, he could have fired up to 22 shots, 11 shots each for 2 takes, then edited together.
devroshart 1 year ago
@devroshart Big deal, Banana Peel!!!
PeterAus123 1 year ago
Q: "How many times did the Rifleman shoot?"
A: " As many times as he wants!"
spykatt 1 year ago
I always heard that he had a seven shot rifle modified to shot 13 shots.
phoofaphant 1 year ago
He obviously fired 12 rounds. If they were blanks they could have been shorter than standard rounds and more would fit in the tube. Also if they are real bullets, they may have been wadcutters or semi-wadcutters deeply seated.
HunterHornet 1 year ago
We are forgetting that this is a CUSTOM made rifle. He could have updated it.
rprince418 1 year ago
was he really shooting? I cant tell if hes pulling the trigger or not
neo19209 1 year ago
@neo19209 he had a screw in the lever that pushed the trigger each time the lever was closed. i've seen photos of it in American Rifleman.
clay523 1 year ago
He was firing blanks. Without the half inch of bullet sticking out of the casing, the magazine would have been able to hold that extra cartridge.
dave60707 1 year ago
After you had the rifle a couple of years the spring in the tube mag gets compressed and you can get another one or two rounds in but you really should oughtta change the spring at that point or the feed can get sloppy and fail
chitlika 2 years ago
When you make your own ammo like he did! You can easilly seat those homemade bullets deep enough to hold 1, and even 2 more bullets than normal, etc.. Did it all the time with my 1894 Marlin so the bullet base was right on top of the powder charge where it belongs.
nodache 2 years ago
Oh, and hey folks, I have and explanation of the disputed 11 or 12 rounds "released"
Frame 0:14 at the six-to seventh round they cut to a wide shot. At the seventh round shown in the wide shot is actually the "6Th" round which would account for the misinterpretation. Blame it on editing.
But then again...this was just a TV show. No need to get specific and real about the technical details. Hey, it could have been 15 rounds or more. Doesn't matter. The rifleman was just plain cool,
creaturebotman 2 years ago
Good point...
nighthawk047 2 years ago
Could he have started with a round in the chamber..
nighthawk047 2 years ago
If he did, he would have cocked it out. He doesn't pull the trigger, then starts cocking.
devroshart 2 years ago
Too bad he wasn't using an old Henry rifle. Those could fire sixteen rounds.
bitethedevil 2 years ago
Al though I have read that he tube magazine was modified to hold 12 rounds, a 12th shot was edited in to the opening introduction.
lms264t 2 years ago
Maybe he was shooting 44-40 shorts??
matrox 2 years ago