Predictive Prophecy - 3 of 4 (Hank Hanegraaff)

[Ricardius1710]

Predictive prophecy? Nostradamus is a perfect comparison! After the fact happenings can always be made to fit a written prophetic text. Not to mention, the things could have been changed to fit. Also, the NT hasn't converted the bulk of Jews. They surely don't see it as prophecy accomplished.

[Torq11]

So one part of a book predicts what will happen later in the book. Yeah, that's a real miracle. Grow up, intellectually, and stop using a 2000 year old story as a crutch, life is to short and precious.

[coopersnoop]

The New Testament is dated at 3rd century CE after being drug though the corruption of the church for a few hundred years!! How do make all these prophecies come true INSIDE the same book??? A simple stroke of the pen.

This is NOT that tough people.

[zappo1355]

@coopersnoop Actually, the documents that make up the New Testament have a range of possible dates. I'm not aware of any good evidence placing them in the 3rd century? Most scholars, along with the evidence I've surveyed seem to reasonably place the documents in the 1st century CE. But, your main point is valid.

[Man4Truth88]

According to the Bible, the Messiah must be a descendant of David through his son Solomon (II Samuel 7:14; I Chronicles 17:11-14, 22:9-10, 28:4-6). The third chapter of Luke is irrelevant to this discussion because it describes lineage of David's son Nathan, not Solomon. (Luke 3:31)

[gregrutz]

The bible was written by men who thought the world was flat and the center of the solar system.

How did it work, write the book after the fact.

[Phatcass]

google Doe's Account.

[Cthulu51]

Hanegraaff's God knows the future but still depends on us mere mortals for mone. And, Hank is happy to serve as his agent. I am indebted to the late George Carlin for this observation. The born of a virgin prophecy is notoriously incorrect being based on a mistranslation.

[SpcMedia21]

AMEN AMEN AMEN HANK

all non believers

SURRENDER TO JESUS CHRIST THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD

[ottojinn]

A blind man cannot lead a blind man because they will both fall in a hole.

[stripymccatpuss]

Crucifiction by the Romans pierced wrists and ankles, NOT feet and hands, this is your example and you are completly wrong......

You fucking tool Hank

[SpcMedia21]

wrists was considered to be part of the hand

[stripymccatpuss]

nope, another tool emerges, the "nails" were driven through between the radius and ulna of the lower arm at the wrist, reason being more tendons and ligaments which are relativly strong. if you hammered the nail through the wrist boney area it would rip through the soft tissue have a nice day

p.s whats your source .. wrist was considered part of the hand rubbish ?academic scorce , not my mom told me..

[rakovsky]

Hello, I am a seeker.

Where does it say "Jesus would be crucified with criminals"?

Isaiah 53 "And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth."

Isaiah is a prophet, but he sometimes talks about "My servant" Jacob or "My servant" Israel.

What makes you think Isaiah is sometimes talking about the Messiah too?

Second, was Jesus buried in Joseph of Arithmea's tomb BECAUSE he was nonviolent and honest?

[ajr666]

When the bible speaks of Messiah he is often referred to as a shoot, branch, or root. We see in Isaiah 53 he describes the suffering servant as a root from dry ground." Christians and Jews interperate Isaiah differently, but who does ur heart tell u Isaiah is talking about? He describes Jesus in such detail, there is just no way Jesus could have arranged his life to fit this passage so perfectly. He describes a guiltless servant. Israel is NEVER describe as guiltless or sinless.

[rakovsky]

@ajr666 Thanks for writing back! Isaiah 11 describes the Messiah as a little shoot from a bigger shoot, and a root's twig. I don't know what the other references are that clearly say it, but Isaiah 11 is enough to show that the Suffering Servant of Isaiah 53, who is also a root's twig, is probably the Messiah, like you say. My heart was confused about this until I saw the clear connection between the root's twig in Isaiah 11 and 53.

[rakovsky]

@ajr666 I doubt that there is no way that Jesus could have arranged his life to fit this passage so perfectly, but agree with your suggestion that his fulfillment is very unusual in that such a fulfillment would be very unusual. You also are right that Isaiah 53 describes a sinless servant, because it talks about absence of lawless violence and deceit. We know that an "asham" or "guilt offering" as mentioned in Isaiah 53 is supposed to be sinless.

Health, happiness, and inspiration to you AJR

[jrpj1983]

Psalm 22:16 For dogs have compassed me:THE ASSEMBLY OF THE WICKED HAVE INCLOSED ME: they pierced my hands and my feet.

He had criminals on his left and right: "inclosed".

Read the rest of the psalm and it describes the crucifixion and it was written 1,000 years before crucifixions became a form of execution.

Hope that helps.

Shalom!

[zappo1355]

@jrpj1983 God God! Ps22 doesn't predict the crucifixion! The word "messiah" isn't even in the text! Its a lament psalm that's vague enough to apply to ANYONE in distress. He's "pierced" from the dogs that are attacking him. The gospel writers would have written the passion accounts with Psalm 22, Is 53, etc, in their minds! WAKE UP!! Its not miraculous predictive prophecy... its good writing!

[rakovsky]

@zappo1355 I appreciate your critical thinking. However, I disagree that it can be affirmed that Ps22 doesn't predict the crucifixion. The description unusually matches someone being crucified, with pierced hands and feet, while the person cires out over a significant period of time (night and day like the sky changed on Passover Eve). The Scriptures sometimes refer to the Messiah as a poetic "David", like in Jeremiah. The Psalms also call David and/or his descendant(s) "Anointed" (Messiah).

[rakovsky]

@zappo1355 Piercing hands isn't vague enough to apply to ANYONE in distress, and it's hard to say that he is pierced by literal animal dogs, because then it would say they "bit" him. "Dogs" can also be a negative term for attacking bad people who would actually attack with piercing.

You are right that the gospel writers would have written the passion accounts with Psalm 22 & 53 in mind, in fact they openly say that they do several times. eg. They say he did X and fulfilled scripture X.

[rakovsky]

@zappo1355 (cont. from my last reply to you). I am awake about what the scriptures predict, my friend, and am happy to "wake up" more about what they predict. Whether you believe Psalm 22 and Is. 53 are miraculous predictive prophecy about a Messiah's death and resurrection depends partly on whether one views the scriptures as having miraculous prophecies. I agree that the New Testament is good writing, but that doesn't mean it doesn't describe a fulfillment of prophecy.

[rakovsky]

@zappo1355 , AJR, and JRPJ Thanks for your discussion. After watching the movie, and reading other articles, I have come to believe that the scriptures predict the Messiah's resurrection. I wrote about it on my blog "rakovskii" on livejournal and invite you, brothers and friends, to come and see at your desire and convenience!

Health, Happiness, and Inspiration to you!

[rakovsky]

@jrpj1983 Thanks for writing, brother. I doubt that Psalm 22:16 says that he would be crucified together with other crucified criminals. It seems that the "they" who pierce his hands grammatically could be "the wicked" in the previous sentence, although maybe you are right and the piercing "they" are the dogs. It seems that the assembly of the wicked could be the Sanhedrin, the soldiers, and others who crucified him.

[rakovsky]

@jrpj1983 (cont. from last reply to you) So I am doubtful that the wicked inclosing him refers to him being inclosed by criminals on his right and left, although such a view makes sense. Psalm 22 describes someone being killed in a way that very unusually matches crucifixion, since such a method was made 1000 years later. The description could hypothetically match another unusual form of bad execution. But pointing out how unusual it is helps to show it as a prophecy.

Shalom, brother.

[TheHonestTheist]

/watch?v=fFH0khjgA0U

[Philos2006]

No specifics. No exact dates, no other data, which would make this an undisputable prediction. As I said: generalities applicable to numerous situations.

[Uzzius008]

.............and he will be called

Wounderful counselour,Mighty God,Everlasting Father,Prince of Peace"

Fullfilled prophecies for the messiah.

False prophet

"In the next generations we should found millions of intermediary fossils to prove evolution otherwise should this theory be dismissed" Charles Darwin

New prophets

"We are shure that in the future we will find evidence for evolution" Richard Dawkins

How strange?!

[Philos2006]

What you call a "prophecy" is worse then your horoscope. Generalities, applicable to uncountable individuals or situations.

[coachtaskmaster]

You've already made up your mind before the evidence is even presented to you. Those convinced against their will, are of the same opinion still. Intent is always prior to content.

[Uzzius008]

can you explain me this horoscope:

Micha 5:2

"But you,Bethlehem Ephratah,though you are small among the clans of Judah,out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel whose origins are from old,from ancient times"

Isaiah 7:14

"Therefore theLord Himself will give you a sign:the virgin will be with child and give birth to a son,and will call him Immanuel(God with us)

Isaiah 9:6

"For a child is born,to us A SON IS GIVEN,and the government will be on his shoulders...........

[Philos2006]

Uzzius008: Do you read what I read. ":Does he rule over Israel" ? Explain how this can be a true prophecy.

[FieldsofYaru]

impeccable evidence it seems. i thank these people for their research.

[Philos2006]

What a lot of bull and wishful thinking. Give me ONE real prophecy in the whole history of mankind. Describing exactly,centuries ahead a certain event, with exact dates,exact names of the people involved, exact location, how it would happen and why. PLEASE !!

[vincenz55]

About 732 B.C.E the prophet Isaiah penned an ominous prophecy—Babylon would fall.

Isaiah provided specifics: A leader named Cyrus would be the conqueror, the protective waters of the Euphrates would dry up, and the citys gates would not be shut. (Isaiah 44:2745:3)

Some 200 years later, on October 5, 539 B.C.E., the prophecy was fulfilled in all its details. Greek historian Herodotus (fifth century B.C.E.) confirmed the manner of Babylons fall

[Philos2006]

Vincenz55: Don`t beat around the bush please. Show me the text, giving the exact dates, exact names of the conqueror, exact description.. Thank you.

By the way: I predict the destruction of Paris. If you wait long enough, it will happen. No acient city from 3/4000 years ago survived to this day.

[vincenz55]

go out and write your book on predictions and see what happens

In this prophecy we are talking about few hundred years before it happened..secondly you coneveniently failed to acknowledge the person who was going to do the destroying. Cyrus.Did Cyrus destroy Babylon or Not?

Go do some of your own research cause i aint gonna do it for you..

you appear to be like those who dont really want the facts they are just useless critics who wouldnt know the facts if it hit them straight in the face

[Philos2006]

vincenz55:I take it you can`t show me a text giving the necessary info to make it a true prophecy.

[vincenz55]

Philos2006 i take it you totally avoid the indesputable evidence that has already put forth..if you dont see it its your problem not mine or countless others.

[Uzzius008]

Philos2006 you are wrong.I know a city that not even survided but grown in the last 3000 thousand years"Jerusalem" and it's all predict in the bible In Hesekiel 20 and 30,and it's even a third temple in the future predicted.

How strange???!!!!!

[fireproofed]

awesome! Amen!

[offthehook2]

Prophecies from Qur'an which later happened:

1. The defeat of the Persians by the Romans within a number of years it specified in Qur'an.

2. Enmity among the Christian sects until the Day of Resurrection. Happened.

3. Allah promised His Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, that his religion would prevail over all others. Happened.

4. The Conquest of Makkah The Battle of Badr. Happened.

The list of prophecies in Qur'an goes on and you didn't know this because? Lack of Knowledge.

[vincenz55]

the defeat of the romans were before the quran even was written..so after the fact not a prophecy

[offthehook2]

Excuse me yastunt, you and the person on that video don't know what you're talking about. And you left Islam? How can you leave what you didn't believe in first place because if you believed this guy then you lacked knowledge.

Here's Prophecy from Qur'an, I put on new comment box...

[yastunt]

this is one of the reasons why I left islam - muslims claim the quran has "hundreds" of prophecies. .after spending 7 years on the internet searching for them - and having read half the quran - can only say - the "prophecies" in the quran simply DO NOT EXIST IN THE REAL WORLD - the bible is king when it comes to prophecy.

[toddtyszka]

Thanks for the comment! You are completely right and sadly Muslims don't do the unbiased research, they'll rather memorize than rationalize...

[vincenz55]

thats right the quran is useless book..am happy you have come out of that spiritual darkness now you have to make sure you dont associate yourself with other christian religions that are in similar darkness as islam is..ie catholic/protestant/mormon/lut­heran/reformed/pentecostal/bap­tist etc ..beware of the false prophets

[777freethinker]

@vincenz55 why baptist and pentecostal

[dreamissbehaved]

good for you! Not saying that because you converted, but because you had doubts and therefore you did the research and took the time to listen around, read books with an open mind. I wish more atheists would examine the "other side's" arugments with an open mind.

[yastunt]

dream - even though God has I'm assuming an infinitely large mind. . .yet He's made the issue a rather simple one - either the prophecies in the bible describe events before they happened or they are hoax "prophecies" backdated after the events to make it look like they were real. .I have been on the internet for the last 9 years and I havent seen any nonemotional objective documentation WHATSOEVER that these prophecies were written after the events they describe. God is outside time!