Vancouver police accused of excessive force in Ali Eltah Ishag arrest

[naym2011]

fuck da police

[dacro0wing]

any one who says stuff like this is excessive force is most likely someone who doesnt like cops because they are likely to be arrested for things they do.

[davejsmith]

The police here just started to knee this guy and attacked him. Excessive force was used and you need to get your tongue out of the cops ass and come back to reality.

[dacro0wing]

@davejsmith

you dont want cops using force, dont fucking resist, if i was a cop im not gonna risk my safety by waiting till someone uses force on me first when they refuse to cooperate, ive had my run in with cops plenty of times but i always cooperate and the cops treat you with respect once they see you have zero intentions of causing problems, and no im not white. so why dont you shut the fuck up. these men risk their lives for a living.

[davejsmith]

@dacro0wing Not in this case. The man is being attacked by officers. The police were not attacked or threatened in this case.... to bad your blind.

[fear614]

@davejsmith Um no. When you are being arrested DO NOT RESIST. It doesn't matter if you think you're right, that's what court is for. If you resist you will be taken down forcefully as is the case here. It was not an attack, it's standard police procedure for morons who refuse to cooperate with the law and its officers.

[davejsmith]

@fear614 The victim wasn't resisting at all. The assault was unprovoked and the police should be charged with assault. A person resisting to provoke that sort of attack by police would have had to physically threaten the police or public safety. The officer grabs the victims arm... the victim uses no weapons or no aggressive force is visible on the tape... I guess your talking out of your ass instead of watching the video.

[fear614]

@davejsmith I'm 99.999% sure that cops kind of HAVE to grab a suspects arm to place them behind his/her back in order to cuff them. The second they held on to his arm he flipped the fuck out instead of just accepting his arrest. Like I said, there's never a need to resist arrest. Plenty of time for talking after you're in cuffs, no need to escalate the situation.

[davejsmith]

@fear614 Did you just say the suspect "flipped the fuck out"? If I flipped out... I would have injured the police officer and it would have been visible on the security camera. The police report had a few false statements in it also, so the victim in this case didn't have a leg to stand on until the video was made public. If your mentally challenged, homeless and suspected of a crime.... police can give you a beating and they have morons such as yourself defend unlawful arrests.

[fear614]

@davejsmith My point in all this is that the suspect did not comply. You can clearly see him resisting the officers. Perhaps they were a bit forceful in their initial attempt at an arrest, but it only escalated to what it did because the suspect chose to kick and scream rather than be forcefully cuffed. I don't think it was a "beating" at all.

[davejsmith]

@fear614 Police approach the suspect and after grabbing the suspects arm begin instantly kneeing him... only when police begin kneeing does the victim start defending himself. If I kneed you, you would defend yourself as he did. The officers wrote false reports of the incident. Two witnesses reports accuse the police of being the aggressors. Its odd that real life and your point are so far apart. A beating looks exactly like that... welcome to earth.

[fear614]

@davejsmith Look at it carefully mate, they tried to put his hands behind his back and he wouldn't. Police are trained to alter their level of force, hence the knee to get him to comply. He reacted by 'defending' himself, thus putting himself in a situation where the officers had to take him down roughly. Would I have given him the knee? No. But that's what this officer chose to do, and it's allowed as per the force matrix.

[davejsmith]

@fear614 So the witness are wrong. I also have training in police tactics and procedure and I must be wrong. Police writing up false reports to defend there actions is procedure. Kneeing a non-violent suspect is procedure in what Provence? Making an arrest is easy, you must communicate your commands giving sufficient time and THEN act giving the suspect clear direction as your assessing risk to yourself/ public and what actions should be taken to serve and protect.

[davejsmith]

@dacro0wing Yes and standing still in a non-aggressive manor, no threat to the public or police constitutes a violent assault along with the police writing a false police report! I've never been arrested and I'm not blind... are you?

[MegaphoneMag]

The point is that the man being arrested was not fighting the cops when they started kneeing him — he is a homeless refugee who suffers from a mental illness and may not have immediately understood what was going on.

And that the police sent out a press release accusing the man of trying to reach for one of the officer's gun - which this video shows he clearly was not.

[MaxLV]

@MegaphoneMag Yeah, He was. It's clear he refused to co-operate right from the start.

[ThePicklepirate]

No excessive force here. The police acted in accordance with their training. The individual became resistant. Good work officers.

[davejsmith]

@ThePicklepirate What training? How to beat a non-threatening suspect down training program. I've worked with law enforcement and enjoy reading these pro-police comments that ignore the facts. 

[ThePicklepirate]

@davejsmith Yeah, right....

[davejsmith]

@ThePicklepirate umm... yea this guy was a real threat!

[ThePicklepirate]

@davejsmith Law Enforcement you say........... Commissionaires?

[coolhandroy]

looking at this video, looks like the cops were doing their job. It appears the guy was fighting back and not complying with demands. We also have no idea what he may have had in his hands or waist band or if had just robbed someone. What else are they supposed to do...say pretty please sir? Its a tough world out there and the cops have a tough job.

[MrGAB4444]

looked like resistance - simple toast

[spongemike]

LOL I had the cops do random checks on me asking for ID. Instead of being dumb and stupid and try to resits. I simply give them my wallet and nothing happen. They ask a few questions and left me alone.

The worse thing you can do is fight a cop lol.

[davejsmith]

@spongemike to bad your submitting to that type of system, it makes you weak for doing the wrong thing. Police are paid to uphold the law and protect the public, not ask for ID, track your movements, question you... etc.

[jayjasonjay]

Didn't look excessive to me. Don't resist the cops, if they're going to take you in, they're going to take you in. It's your choice if you want to get beaten or not.

[plasterdbastard]

They asked him to surrender, he resisted, and they used techniques to bring him down.

If he didn't resist he wouldn't have been hurt.

Listen, I believe that we need a tight leash on the police, but the police have the ability to use force for a reason.

[mrjamest2000]

He was fighting back and refusing to be arrested, the police did great. Every move they used to take him down was below his waist so it wasn't damaging.

[verdefull]

so what the fuck u want they are cops it's their job... to arrest immigrant scums..,

[Graphyte2006]

I know that the VPD are rough, but in this case you can't hear what's being said and it looks like the guy wasn't following commands and was resisting. Want to see REAL brutality and unjustified violence? Look at the video of the M.S. woman being shoved to the ground.

[SavingOfHumanity]

BC Pigs are PURE EVIL. They broke my hand, shoulder, pistol whipped me and threated to kill me just because they didnt believe my official documentation of who I was. Even after they agreed to let me go, they continued to beat me over and over.

[Rajoni222]

@SavingOfHumanity

That's bull, no cop will ever do that, maybe you shouldn't be an immigrant, we have enough of those already....

[SavingOfHumanity]

@Rajoni222 How dare you ! You need to wake up because just like any profession, there are good and bad. I have over 20 witnessness who all seen the pigs broke my hand, shoulder, pistol whipped me and threated to kill me just because they didnt believe my official documentation of who I was. Even after they agreed to let me go, they continued to beat me over and over. SO to you I say,...I think I hear your mommy calling you kido. Be best to run alone now because you cant touch this one.

[Rajoni222]

@SavingOfHumanity that's not true, that doesn't happen....if your hands broken, how're you typing? dumb immigrants

[9Dub9]

Sometimes they fall to the temptation of not exercising the due patience but just resorting to force right off the bat in order to get something done quickly.

[9Dub9]

Actually, it looks to me like the cops were like "Ok buddy, come along with us"

The guy looks surprised and asks them "what did I do?"

Then, to me, it looks like the cops just get a little impatient (wasn't lunch time was it?) and decide to not try to calm the guy down but just use force to get the guy to quickly comply as fast as possible.

This seems to be the problem that comes up when you have a person invested with the authority to use force.

[Rata4You]

Now the other shoe drops........Ali Eltah Ishag...given an opportunity to live in Canada. A refugee. The man walks in invited and make himself at home. He proceeds to take a DUMP in our living room instead. History 2 charges of assaulting a police officer including attempts to take a cops weapon. He is known to police across Canada. What a piece of shit! KICK THE FUCKER OUT!!! Why do we let these people in?? Many people come here and contribute but then we have the likes of this shit.

[Rata4You]

Refugees should NOT have a free pass to remain in Canada when they commit crimes. People with Permanent Residency cars have to obey our laws and if they commit any serious offences they lose their cards and are deported. Why the hell does a REFUGEE have special rights not to lose the PRIVELAGE to live here. Why are we Canadians OBLIGATED to accept the costs and danger associated to accomodate such animals?? These are not human. they are sick fuckers. Thanks, I'm just pissed!

[JuiceSer]

Not sure what the guy did but he did resist and he should be arrested. After watching I have to wonder how two officers have trouble getting control of this guy. Get him down, cuff him and get him in the car. Simple joint manipulation and he's down. No big scene, no kicking in the ankle or kneeing in the chest lol. If his thumb or wrist break thats a consequence of fighting with the law

[RobotKazoo]

I see nothing wrong with this. He resisted arrest and the minimal amount of force was used to effect the lawful arrest. Don't try to fight the police and you won't have any problems.

[chuckeieio]

They beat him cause he was black right? Don't fight with the Police. Then you don't have to whine about how your rights were stepped on after you get a beat down.

[xa9p462g]

When the cops start talking to you just answer yes or no. Don't be a smart ass and don't fall in the trap of trying to win an argument. Usually nothing happens if you stay calm. If they bring you in just go and once you're out of there, then get a lawyer. Seriously, I see those guy having physical fights with the cops. What do they think is going to happen? Do they think the cops are just gonna say "Ok buddy, you win so you can go now!" Really? What do they think is going to happen?

[davejsmith]

@xa9p462g Free country, you don't need to answer yes or no. The police here just started to knee this guy and attacked him. Excessive force was used and you need to get your tongue out of the cops ass and come back to reality.

[BJJXguard]

@xa9p462g You're probably the only person who has intelligently commented on the situation.

[naym2011]

@xa9p462g why is this north korea ? the police dont own u

[MikeLowreyRules]

Seattle8686 seems angry.

[imatitlover]

"it's a grappling match - no one's being "beaten".

Being kneed, kicked, slammed into a wall most certainly is being beaten. Seems a routine thing now for Van cops.I guess they wanted to be like the others who beat up an old newspaper delivery man, and shot and killed a homeless man, then saying ..oops, we thought he was someone else. Just today, 2 days after a Victoria cop was charged with assault, we read of 2 more in Kamloops being charged with assault.

[captainlogon]

These police did nothing wrong. Use of force is never pretty. We've been lulled by movies and TV into believing that police are ninjas who can surgically and precisely apprehend anyone with the greatest of ease. This is just not the case. Buddy had warrants, the police walk up to him calmly and reasonably, as soon as they touch him he begins to resist.

[seattle8686]

@captainlogon its as if you didn't even watch the video.......and no, I never got the idea that police can apprehend someone with the greatest of ease....and no, the man did not resist arrest when the police touched him....there hands were on him for approximately 4 seconds and the man just stood there...and when the officer closest to the camera kneed him twice, the other officer slammed him against the wall.and the man had a natural reaction of trying to flee...so would you when you get beaten

[scarecrowschofield]

@seattle8686 Captain has it right.

[seattle8686]

@scarecrowschofield too bad the video proves the captain wrong

[scarecrowschofield]

@captainlogon Well said.

[fullofstupid]

fight the cops, get arrested.simple.

[bookmarker999]

They're quick but the guy makes two distinct moves to go for the near cop's gun at 00:28 and 00:32. And ps it's a grappling match - no one's being "beaten".

[scarecrowschofield]

@bookmarker999 Got that right. No one ever agrees with everything the cops do, but we weren't there, we can only judge it on a short video clip. It looks like a good arrest to me.

[seattle8686]

@scarecrowschofield if you call that a good arrest, then I would hate to ever be arrested by police..I could lay on the ground and two officers would jump on me, breaking my arm an yelling at me "stop resisting" and they would think they're justified..the guy wasn't resisting arrest, watch the video objectively...the officers had their hands on him for four seconds, the man stood there and only resisted AFTER he got kneed twice by the officer and slammed up against the wall by the other officer

[seattle8686]

@bookmarker999 there hands were on him for approximately 4 seconds and the man just stood there...and when the officer closest to the camera kneed him twice, the other officer slammed him against the wall.and the man had a natural reaction of trying to flee...so would you when you get beaten....if two officers come up to me (without warrant) and start beating me, I will do what I can to defend myself....no one is above the law...the man shouldn't have just laid down to receive his beating

[sKepptiksowat]

I remember the days before there were so many cameras around and when one would claim police brutality there was little chance of being believed. There is no recent explosion of police misconduct and it doesn't take a rocket surgeon to see the correlation is with proliferation of cameras, internets, etc, and not some new phenomenon. Having lived on those streets in a darker time back in the before time of the long long ago(80's) it's nothing new. Good thing I invented the internets eh?

[commanderetardo]

i love the old 'don't try to move or resist while we beat you' argument. show me a human who doesn't insinctively fight back or try to get away. its our animal-level selves at work, we are the descendants of people who were successful at either fight or flight.

[seattle8686]

@commanderetardo exactly.....but you know theres a lot of people here who were probably beaten up in school and their natural reaction of fighting back has turned into 'if I just pretend I'm dead, maybe they'll leave'

[dcuplover]

agbuitar you can CLEARLY see him go for a gun? It looks like the three of them are wrestling. I don't see him try to take a gun for the one Officer. The guy in blue was drinking alcohol in public that is why he pours it out as the Cops come up to the two men. I see a guy who might not want to listen to the Cops because he doesn't just turn around and assume the position. The kneeing by the Officers might be necessary but they jumped to it quit quickly.

[agbguitar]

People are so dumb, there is nothing wrong here. The cops clearly tried to arrest him civilly and he resisted. Also if you look at 0:31 you see him grab the cops gun!

[phenylenginerods]

@agbguitar how could you possibly see that? he has one hand visible, and it's on the left cop's shoulder (left from our perspective).

it's not obvious from the video that he's *not* grabbing at the other cop's gun with his other hand, but it certainly isn't clear that he is. if anything, it looks like he didn't make any kind of move before they started kicking him, and like he's trying to stay on his feet & away from the cops throughout the video, more than anything else.

[sKepptiksowat]

@agbguitar lol

[pd204]

this is NOT police brutality. This man was clearly resisting arrest and apparently was trying to pull the cop's gun out of its holster. He has also been charged with assaulting a police officer before. More BS from the DTES poverty pimps.

[phenylenginerods]

@pd204 he's not resisting until after they start beating him, from what you can see here. afterwards, yes, by not doing what they're trying to physically force him to do, he's resisting--but that kind of resistance doesn't justify this kind of force.

still, if they're right that he was going for their guns, it would be a different story. but it doesn't look like it from the video.

[djuschka]

love that when we defend ourselves from being brutalized by the police we are charged with assaulting them. I guess the thing to do is let them beat the crap out of you - hmm sounds like the same game being played with Intimate partner violence