". . . majority rule is as defective as any other kind of RULE [...] the change will be made not in increasing the powers of the state, but resorting to free agreement, free organization and free federation in all those branches which are now considered attributes of the state. [...] But we do not see the necessity of force for enforcing agreements freely entered upon.
--Peter Kropotkin (Anarchist Communism: Its basis and Principles)
Personal ownership of a wrench, or your precious pineapple tree, or a house, or a car are all defined by:
1: Active personal use.
2. Occupancy.
A ceramics factory cannot be defined by either of these by a single individual; hence they cannot be owned individually and the only way to maintain ownership of them by a single person is through force (a state).
If you claim land or property not defined by use or occupancy you are a thief - and should be charged as such.
Are your "capital goods" defined by use and occupancy or are they protected for you by an external force (state)?
Also, learn what the definitions you're using mean. Larceny involves the theft of personal MOVABLE property. Means of production - factories, mines, heavy machinery, land - are not movable unless you possess superhuman abilities.
Does becoming a member of your terrorist "voluntary class" imbue one with god-like abilities as well as inflated narcissism?
Larceny (MW): the unlawful taking of personal [mobile] property with intent to deprive the rightful owner of it permanently.
Trespass (MW): 2. to commit a trespass; especially: to enter unlawfully upon the land [immobile property] of another.
A mobile wrench and an immobile storage shed are capital goods; you will tell me when/if I can and can not use them through your voluntary larceny and trespass.
The dictionary is very objectively clear about your beliefs, I got it...
If elections are not violently enforced, then it's just spontaneous organization in self-selected groups. If we look at the word "democracy", we see demo and archy. In a theocracy, the state enforces the interpreted will of god(s). In democracy, elections replace god as the creation of mandates, and the state violently enforces the will of the majority of voters.
"Participatory democracy" makes as much sense as "participatory theocracy".
Battery and Robbery are criminal, whether mobs do it or not. Sorry violent socialists.
"two [people] have no more natural right to exercise any kind of authority over one, than one has to exercise the same authority over two. A [persons] natural rights are [their] own, against the whole world; and any infringement of them is equally a crime, whether committed by one [person], or by millions;" -Lysander Spooner
"Crimes are those acts by which one [person] harms the person or property of another." - Lysander Spooner.
Rachel ?: "The means of production [...] are under common ownership".
Larceny (MW): the unlawful taking of personal [mobile] property with intent to deprive the rightful owner of it permanently.
Your larcenism could not be included in that voluntarist quote above, though I suppose committing larceny is the same as voluntary interaction, right? Whatever you say...
Notice how you never bothered to refute the fact that you just quoted a self-admitted "criminal" socialist with approval ^_^
Face it, you're completely unable to form a coherent structured argument against what you disagree with. And after all the times I asked you you could never ONCE even give a proper definition of what "common ownership" (of the MOP) actually is - let alone how it counts as (ahem) "theft, coercion, larceny, burglary, looting, blah blah blah"
[continued] . . . and of course in reiterating the garbage of Hans Hermann Hoppe and Stefan Molynex that "democracy is a form of communism" you are in fact covertly making an argument FOR dictatorship and fascism - minoritarianism, plutocracy domination and subordination of the many to the elite few; namely you and your wannabe-terrorist "voluntary class".
You either support democracy (people controlling their own lives) or you support dictatorship
"The will, or the pretended will, of the majority, is the last lurking place of tyranny at the present day. [...] Two [people] have no more natural right to rule one, than one has to rule two." - Lysander Spooner.
Democracy (MW): 1a. government by the people; especially: rule of the majority.
Still denying the existence of consensus decision-making I see (deliberately confusing it with referendum).
And acting under the fantasy that anarchists and all libertarian socialists don't COMPLETELY AGREE that the majority has zero right in any case to dictate their will to a minority - no matter how small.
As with all who realize they can't win an argument using logic, you erect a straw man and precede to tear it down.
@qwertypoiu4321 Lysander Spooner was a genius glad there are some out there who have read and understand what he was saying, Thanks for your attempt at enlightening some. --peace
@danielc121162 People such as yourself have not artificially lost the natural human impulse to interact voluntarily, which can not be said of many others on this page.
"a voluntary union of free [people]; such a union as will one day exist among all [people], the world over, if the several nations, so called, shall ever get rid of the upsurpers, robbers, and murderers, called governments, that now plunder, enslave, and destroy them." - Lysander Spooner.
@qwertypoiu4321 Thanks, My mother was 77 when she died a few years ago. She was a language professor, and very well educated who turned me on to Lysander Spooner many years ago. She was libertarian, but also wanted to known as a self avowed anarchist. She also was a 'Christian' and had no problem reconciling those beliefs. Lysander was great man of his day to bad more don't know of him and his works.
As I pointed out to qwertypoiu4321, Lysander Spooner was an avowed socialist who opposed wage-labor.
"All the great establishments, of every kind, now in the hands of a few proprietors, but employing a great number of wage laborers, would be broken up; for few or no persons, who could hire capital and do business for themselves would consent to labor for wages for another"
-- Letter to Cleveland
It seems the origin of the term "libertarian" isn't your only ignorance
While I agree that a participatory democracy is the right way to go, we must not lose sight of science and what is provably better for a society. In instances a majority of a society might prefer an option that is not the most scientifically sound. It should not be up to the minority to change the majority's mind on this issue. Instead, as soon as an option is proven more scientifically viable for the society's goals the other option should immediately become secondary or discarded.
@fringeelements That type of approach, while well intended, will not work unless the population is extremely well informed. A bunch of people could free associate to torture and mutilate another group of people out of fear or superstition (witches, jews, etc.)
If you want a safe and sustainable culture people must band together under common goals (protection of the environment, meeting everyones essential needs, etc.), and then use the best provable (science) methods to do so.
The US is a Constitutional Republic, not a Democracy of any kind.
watch?v=Z184mJN8CUI
Democracy is mob rule. (Like Chicago, Like gang-rape)
Our founding fathers loathed it.
Do your homework on this and then tell me why "they" call us a democracy.
The word "democracy" is not contained in any of our founding documents.
We are NOT a democracy, nor a "true democracy", nor "representative democracy". It is all encroachment to get you to become socialists, like the "Democrats" are doing.
I agree with all of the tenets and philosophical positions asserted in this video; my grievances are pragmatic. What body would execute the maintenance and ensure the adherence of the laws of the land? What legitimacy would any organization of this sort hold over any individual who merely chooses to opt out? And this entire postulate assumes a relatively equal dispersion of resources among the populace which does not exist, by what means would such a system be implemented without coercive power?
In essence, Any system that could ever in any way limit a persons right over their own body and what they do with it is wrong, and any system that means you can for any reason be removed from your home or job simply because of what you do with your own person is wrong. Participatory or not, you still end up with the majority having power over you, making a scenario where people are forced to constantly 'participate' somewhere else and move around, and no system could ever make that easy.
Under this system you describe I can still be alienated and cast out for refusing to comply. All this is is replacing forceful oppression with passive aggressive oppression, the difference is microscopic to me.
I like a lot of your videos, however I do not agree with democracy at all. What you're saying is democracy is good if it is voluntary, but what if I joined a community that had everything I wanted except for one thing, lets say they don't believe in the right to bear arms. Any other place that allows me to carry weapons has other things reprehensible to me so this one society is the only sound option.
The US Constitution guarantees thr right to a republican government under republican party rule? Interesting how the Constitution nrver mention democracy.
It makes me wonder why anyone would support a party with the name "Democracy" in it.
Democracy is mob rule, like two wolves and a chicken deciding on what's for dinner, or better yet, gang-rape.
Our Constitutional Republic requires the people to be informed, but have become lazy and ignorant, that is why they keep calling us a "democracy" and everyone should correct news media and others who call us one.
@JRBeaman It's a representative democracy, which is a kind of republic. Republics aren't good in themselves. For instance, the USSR was a republic, or a Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. A republic can be democratic or it can have rule by an elite. The United States is supposed to be a republic with a representative democracy. That word may not be explicitly used, but that is what it is ipso facto.
No government is better. I see no need for a federal governmrnt. We have state governments. We are a republic. Read George Washington. Thomas Jefferson is right democracy is just mob rule.
When are angry and fear for our survivial we act like animals clawing at our last breath. Think of Twilight Zobe's The Shelter. Also with national soverignty and illwgal immigration invasion. We are being invaded by foreign forces to wage economic war on our economy. Economic terrorism.
In Zizek's latest book, he says some thing like 'In a parliamentary democracy, the people are king, but it's a limited monarchy in which the king only has a few formal powers.' I wish i could find the actual quote...
@LeftPolitiko Ha ha. I actually did the same thing when I responded to like 15 comments on one of my videos when I realized I was on my wife's account.
". . . majority rule is as defective as any other kind of RULE [...] the change will be made not in increasing the powers of the state, but resorting to free agreement, free organization and free federation in all those branches which are now considered attributes of the state. [...] But we do not see the necessity of force for enforcing agreements freely entered upon.
--Peter Kropotkin (Anarchist Communism: Its basis and Principles)
Please renounce your advocacy of dictatorship.
MsSexySocialist 2 weeks ago
@MsSexySocialist Kropotkin: "ownership of [...] capital, [...] must, and will, become the common property of society,"
Rachel ?: "The means of production [...] are under common ownership".
Lenin: "Socialism [...] common property. [...] the common ownership of the means of production,"
Larceny (MW): the unlawful taking of personal [mobile] property with intent to deprive the rightful owner of it permanently.
Larceny is voluntary right? I finally get it, whatever you say...
qwertypoiu4321 2 weeks ago
@qwertypoiu4321
Your logic:
Kropotkin and me want "common ownership" of the MOP, so did Lenin, Mao and Stalin.
Ergo: there is no difference between us.
Continuing in that vain, you are a vegan, Hitler was a vegetarian.
Ergo, you espouse the same sentiments as Adolf Hitler.
I honestly cannot believe that you've been continuing this guilty by association nonsense for this long.
Also, "personal [movable] property" is NOT means of production. lol
MsSexySocialist 2 weeks ago
@MsSexySocialist Capital Good (MW): 1a(2): accumulated goods devoted to the production of other goods.
Wrench (MW): 2. a hand or power tool for holding, twisting, or turning an object (as a bolt or nut).
Trespass (MW): 2. to commit a trespass; especially: to enter unlawfully upon the land [immobile property] of another.
A wrench is not a capital good; Larceny and Trespass are voluntary. I think I finally understand...
qwertypoiu4321 2 weeks ago
@qwertypoiu4321
Personal ownership of a wrench, or your precious pineapple tree, or a house, or a car are all defined by:
1: Active personal use.
2. Occupancy.
A ceramics factory cannot be defined by either of these by a single individual; hence they cannot be owned individually and the only way to maintain ownership of them by a single person is through force (a state).
If you claim land or property not defined by use or occupancy you are a thief - and should be charged as such.
MsSexySocialist 2 weeks ago
@MsSexySocialist You tell me when I can and can not use my own capital goods, larceny and trespass are voluntary, got it...
qwertypoiu4321 2 weeks ago
@qwertypoiu4321
Are your "capital goods" defined by use and occupancy or are they protected for you by an external force (state)?
Also, learn what the definitions you're using mean. Larceny involves the theft of personal MOVABLE property. Means of production - factories, mines, heavy machinery, land - are not movable unless you possess superhuman abilities.
Does becoming a member of your terrorist "voluntary class" imbue one with god-like abilities as well as inflated narcissism?
MsSexySocialist 2 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Larceny (MW): the unlawful taking of personal [mobile] property with intent to deprive the rightful owner of it permanently.
Trespass (MW): 2. to commit a trespass; especially: to enter unlawfully upon the land [immobile property] of another.
A mobile wrench and an immobile storage shed are capital goods; you will tell me when/if I can and can not use them through your voluntary larceny and trespass.
The dictionary is very objectively clear about your beliefs, I got it...
qwertypoiu4321 1 week ago
If elections are not violently enforced, then it's just spontaneous organization in self-selected groups. If we look at the word "democracy", we see demo and archy. In a theocracy, the state enforces the interpreted will of god(s). In democracy, elections replace god as the creation of mandates, and the state violently enforces the will of the majority of voters.
"Participatory democracy" makes as much sense as "participatory theocracy".
fringeelements 1 month ago
Battery and Robbery are criminal, whether mobs do it or not. Sorry violent socialists.
"two [people] have no more natural right to exercise any kind of authority over one, than one has to exercise the same authority over two. A [persons] natural rights are [their] own, against the whole world; and any infringement of them is equally a crime, whether committed by one [person], or by millions;" -Lysander Spooner
qwertypoiu4321 1 month ago
@qwertypoiu4321
Lysander Spooner was a socialist. lol
MsSexySocialist 3 weeks ago
"Crimes are those acts by which one [person] harms the person or property of another." - Lysander Spooner.
Rachel ?: "The means of production [...] are under common ownership".
Larceny (MW): the unlawful taking of personal [mobile] property with intent to deprive the rightful owner of it permanently.
Your larcenism could not be included in that voluntarist quote above, though I suppose committing larceny is the same as voluntary interaction, right? Whatever you say...
qwertypoiu4321 2 weeks ago
@qwertypoiu4321
Notice how you never bothered to refute the fact that you just quoted a self-admitted "criminal" socialist with approval ^_^
Face it, you're completely unable to form a coherent structured argument against what you disagree with. And after all the times I asked you you could never ONCE even give a proper definition of what "common ownership" (of the MOP) actually is - let alone how it counts as (ahem) "theft, coercion, larceny, burglary, looting, blah blah blah"
MsSexySocialist 2 weeks ago
@qwertypoiu4321
[continued] . . . and of course in reiterating the garbage of Hans Hermann Hoppe and Stefan Molynex that "democracy is a form of communism" you are in fact covertly making an argument FOR dictatorship and fascism - minoritarianism, plutocracy domination and subordination of the many to the elite few; namely you and your wannabe-terrorist "voluntary class".
You either support democracy (people controlling their own lives) or you support dictatorship
END. OF. STORY.
MsSexySocialist 2 weeks ago
@MsSexySocialist lol, whatever you say...
"The will, or the pretended will, of the majority, is the last lurking place of tyranny at the present day. [...] Two [people] have no more natural right to rule one, than one has to rule two." - Lysander Spooner.
Democracy (MW): 1a. government by the people; especially: rule of the majority.
Majority (MW): 3c. the greater quantity or share.
qwertypoiu4321 2 weeks ago
@qwertypoiu4321
Still denying the existence of consensus decision-making I see (deliberately confusing it with referendum).
And acting under the fantasy that anarchists and all libertarian socialists don't COMPLETELY AGREE that the majority has zero right in any case to dictate their will to a minority - no matter how small.
As with all who realize they can't win an argument using logic, you erect a straw man and precede to tear it down.
Face it, you're arguing for dictatorship.
MsSexySocialist 2 weeks ago
@qwertypoiu4321 Lysander Spooner was a genius glad there are some out there who have read and understand what he was saying, Thanks for your attempt at enlightening some. --peace
danielc121162 1 week ago
Comment removed
qwertypoiu4321 1 week ago
@danielc121162 People such as yourself have not artificially lost the natural human impulse to interact voluntarily, which can not be said of many others on this page.
"a voluntary union of free [people]; such a union as will one day exist among all [people], the world over, if the several nations, so called, shall ever get rid of the upsurpers, robbers, and murderers, called governments, that now plunder, enslave, and destroy them." - Lysander Spooner.
Peace.
qwertypoiu4321 1 week ago
@qwertypoiu4321 Thanks, My mother was 77 when she died a few years ago. She was a language professor, and very well educated who turned me on to Lysander Spooner many years ago. She was libertarian, but also wanted to known as a self avowed anarchist. She also was a 'Christian' and had no problem reconciling those beliefs. Lysander was great man of his day to bad more don't know of him and his works.
danielc121162 1 week ago
@danielc121162
As I pointed out to qwertypoiu4321, Lysander Spooner was an avowed socialist who opposed wage-labor.
"All the great establishments, of every kind, now in the hands of a few proprietors, but employing a great number of wage laborers, would be broken up; for few or no persons, who could hire capital and do business for themselves would consent to labor for wages for another"
-- Letter to Cleveland
It seems the origin of the term "libertarian" isn't your only ignorance
MsSexySocialist 1 week ago
facebook /groups/watchthevote2012/
danielhall4freedom ws/Family
.WS = WE SOVEREIGN
DanHall4RonPaul 2 months ago
While I agree that a participatory democracy is the right way to go, we must not lose sight of science and what is provably better for a society. In instances a majority of a society might prefer an option that is not the most scientifically sound. It should not be up to the minority to change the majority's mind on this issue. Instead, as soon as an option is proven more scientifically viable for the society's goals the other option should immediately become secondary or discarded.
IHighLikePlane 5 months ago
Yes, yes, that has never worked. How about this: you let people free associate and do what they want, and optimal behaviors will be mimicked.
fringeelements 1 month ago
@fringeelements That type of approach, while well intended, will not work unless the population is extremely well informed. A bunch of people could free associate to torture and mutilate another group of people out of fear or superstition (witches, jews, etc.)
If you want a safe and sustainable culture people must band together under common goals (protection of the environment, meeting everyones essential needs, etc.), and then use the best provable (science) methods to do so.
IHighLikePlane 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
The US is a Constitutional Republic, not a Democracy of any kind.
watch?v=Z184mJN8CUI
Democracy is mob rule. (Like Chicago, Like gang-rape)
Our founding fathers loathed it.
Do your homework on this and then tell me why "they" call us a democracy.
The word "democracy" is not contained in any of our founding documents.
We are NOT a democracy, nor a "true democracy", nor "representative democracy". It is all encroachment to get you to become socialists, like the "Democrats" are doing.
Sorry.
JRBeaman 6 months ago
I agree with all of the tenets and philosophical positions asserted in this video; my grievances are pragmatic. What body would execute the maintenance and ensure the adherence of the laws of the land? What legitimacy would any organization of this sort hold over any individual who merely chooses to opt out? And this entire postulate assumes a relatively equal dispersion of resources among the populace which does not exist, by what means would such a system be implemented without coercive power?
capereyda 6 months ago
In essence, Any system that could ever in any way limit a persons right over their own body and what they do with it is wrong, and any system that means you can for any reason be removed from your home or job simply because of what you do with your own person is wrong. Participatory or not, you still end up with the majority having power over you, making a scenario where people are forced to constantly 'participate' somewhere else and move around, and no system could ever make that easy.
MetalCatharsis 1 year ago
Under this system you describe I can still be alienated and cast out for refusing to comply. All this is is replacing forceful oppression with passive aggressive oppression, the difference is microscopic to me.
MetalCatharsis 1 year ago
I like a lot of your videos, however I do not agree with democracy at all. What you're saying is democracy is good if it is voluntary, but what if I joined a community that had everything I wanted except for one thing, lets say they don't believe in the right to bear arms. Any other place that allows me to carry weapons has other things reprehensible to me so this one society is the only sound option.
MetalCatharsis 1 year ago
Excellent. This goes to my favorites ;o)
dendryite 1 year ago
The US Constitution guarantees thr right to a republican government under republican party rule? Interesting how the Constitution nrver mention democracy.
ToxicOdiousOne 1 year ago
@ToxicOdiousOne You are correct.
It makes me wonder why anyone would support a party with the name "Democracy" in it.
Democracy is mob rule, like two wolves and a chicken deciding on what's for dinner, or better yet, gang-rape.
Our Constitutional Republic requires the people to be informed, but have become lazy and ignorant, that is why they keep calling us a "democracy" and everyone should correct news media and others who call us one.
JRBeaman 6 months ago
@JRBeaman It's a representative democracy, which is a kind of republic. Republics aren't good in themselves. For instance, the USSR was a republic, or a Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. A republic can be democratic or it can have rule by an elite. The United States is supposed to be a republic with a representative democracy. That word may not be explicitly used, but that is what it is ipso facto.
blackmichael75 3 weeks ago
@JRBeaman Yep totally agree it is a Republic with the rule of 'Law' as opposed to Staututes codes and regulations
danielc121162 1 week ago
@danielc121162 oops Statutes
danielc121162 1 week ago
Manipulated mob rule while a few control it all..
g8eight8 1 year ago
No government is better. I see no need for a federal governmrnt. We have state governments. We are a republic. Read George Washington. Thomas Jefferson is right democracy is just mob rule.
ToxicOdiousOne 1 year ago
Participatory Democracy in the world is the next step in empowerment of the soul of humanity and a leap in a new humanity.
marktacan 1 year ago
When are angry and fear for our survivial we act like animals clawing at our last breath. Think of Twilight Zobe's The Shelter. Also with national soverignty and illwgal immigration invasion. We are being invaded by foreign forces to wage economic war on our economy. Economic terrorism.
ToxicOdiousOne 1 year ago
Do you ever post just the text of your videos?
JTravisRolko 1 year ago
A conservative would argue that United States is a republic, not a democracy. That a republic is better than a democracy.
amazingyou1uber 1 year ago
I was a fucking time someone made this! :)
organdva 1 year ago
@organdva That was exactly my thought. I'm not really sure why nobody seems to have made a response to this subject.
LeftLibetyAppendix 1 year ago
In Zizek's latest book, he says some thing like 'In a parliamentary democracy, the people are king, but it's a limited monarchy in which the king only has a few formal powers.' I wish i could find the actual quote...
LeftP0litik0FTW 1 year ago
@LeftP0litik0FTW lol i didn't realize i was still logged into my troll account when i posted this. oh well.
LeftPolitiko 1 year ago
@LeftPolitiko Ha ha. I actually did the same thing when I responded to like 15 comments on one of my videos when I realized I was on my wife's account.
LeftLibetyAppendix 1 year ago
Campaign Finance Reform NOW!
alowlyapprentice 1 year ago
hrmm. I take issue with your take on force. hmm
oldhacks 1 year ago
I subbed just in time!
oldhacks 1 year ago
i think participatory democracy can work if the people are willing to sustain it
manicmetropolis 1 year ago