Surprisingly enough I'm not about to publish a book in the comments section of a youtube video. though for the average conservative neanderthal this is enough to condemn me in itself, this merely shows the lack of intellectual rigour in their commentary, should I wish to waste my time writing a whole book on why Freidman is intellectually corrupt, not only would it be a very short & uninteresting book but no one would buy it (given that ppl who uphold his theories don't read they merely preach)
Well to be honest... his life's work deserves no more than a passing mention.... other than the damage that has been caused by people who have used his misguided pseudo intellectual claptrap as an excuse to shaft the vast majority of people for their own personal gain (or in the case of Thatcher to feed her megalomania) & as for RPSF2008 are you being paid by the US state department to carry out some hopeless propaganda mission or are you just allergic to books?....
meanwhile back on planet earth.... the guy is(was) an arsehole.... he knew what he was saying & he knew why.... lets not get distracted with the truth & listen to uncle Milton who will tell us how it really is LOL.... to be honest he looks like a psychopath & probably is one....
@MastahYupa the two are not comparable. I live in a state (California) that has a population 400% larger than that of your entire country. The state of California's GDP is 300% higher than of the entire country of Sweden. Your government may work smoother and more efficient, but you have a very small population and a very small economy.
@SorryForYourBoss so what you are saying is ... if there are more than 8 million PPL in your country you have to treat them like shit??? or am I missing some big point here?
@UbercakeNL I'm saying you can't compare two systems when the population is 300,000,000 different. And people in America are not treated like shit. At all. We give people unemployment for 99 weeks. That's enough to get an AA degree...Perhaps do some research before you ever post anything ever again. People in America have it better than people in any other country in the world, despite what your media or our media portrays.
@SorryForYourBoss meanwhile back on planet earth... I come from the UK (Pop60M) I live in NL (Pop 16M) By all international rankings the US scores WAY lower than any scandinavian country or the NL and substantially lower than Fr Ger & even Spain debt is higher than any western country apart from the UK. people DIE for lack of healthcare there are MILLIONS of homeless CHILDREN in the US ... & you have the cheek to tell ME to read & tell me whether or not I have the right to post. ARROGANT SCUM
@UbercakeNL we don't have homeless children here. any children that are homeless are homeless because of the parents that don't give them up for adoption. the government takes care of all children. Our health CARE is far superior to everywhere in the country. Our health INSURANCE is a wreck, but it can be fixed without nationalizing it like some of the less effective health CARE countries. There's a reason people are lined up by the millions to get in here...it's not because they love socialism.
@UbercakeNL the reality is people here make more money, we have the same % of people living in poverty, except here they have a chance to move up in society through hard work and patience. Sorry that we don't feel the need to leech off of others. Nobody is dying to get into England. Nobody is sneaking across the border in the UK. People risk their lives everyday to get in to the US. Because it's the greatest nation on earth and that's a fact. Listen to the immigrants if you don't believe me.
@SorryForYourBoss try and get some facts. 1people are in fact dying to get in to the UK. in containers under the channel tunnel trains etc. 2poverty in % terms is way higher than most european countries & not comparable to northern europe, 3. US debt is per capita the highest of any industrialised country (bar 1 the UK) not leaching?? something like a third of everything you & your countryfolk spend is OTHER PPLs money. The immigrants, no welfare no healthcare no greencard they are slaves
@UbercakeNL you do realize that everytime you use a service provided by the government, you're using other people's money right? government has nothing. it takes from others. in your country, high taxes are forced upon the more wealthy and given to others. that is the opposite of freedom. and yes, when people sneak into the country we don't feel the need to provide them with healhtcare that OTHER people pay for. again, you can't understand this concept because you live in a nanny state.
@SorryForYourBoss well you shot yourself in the foot in the first sentence, the underlying philosophy is that poor ppl should sell their children to rich ppl. healthcare in the US is notorious for costing more than any other country with worse outcomes than countries who spend per capita well under half what is spent in the US, Cubans live longer & are more literate than US citizens due to a decent education & health system, despite being a 3rd world country under a 50 year economic blockade'
@UbercakeNL & as for ppl 'lining up in their millions' they would rather be somewhere in europe if they could manage it, because there is healthcare & a decent education for the kids.... OH SORRY REALITY CHECK.... UNPLEASANT BUT TRUE.... the US is finished as a world power.... ironically due to a mixture of greed & hubris.... they are actually destroying their own world position by spending all of their money on the military industrial complex.. the greatest irony being that they have no enemy
@UbercakeNL if people wanted to go to Europe, they would. Nobody wants to because there's no opportunity there. Even if you do make it and become successful, Europe says 'No, give your stuff to others". I find it hard to believe you're actually commenting on a nation you've never been to. I've been inside hospitals in the UK and Europe. They're not good. Why do you think people come here to see specialists and get surgeries? The U.S. is a far superior place to live than anywhere in Europe.
@SorryForYourBoss most of my US friends would not agree with you ... but perhaps that is because they have not been overwhelmed by narcissism and actually do care about stuff other than their own wallet.... you have yet to explain why poor ppl should give their children up for adoption I would like to hear it as your rote learned 'everyone else is a commie' stuff is both boring & inaccurate, I will not be posting again since you only want to blow your own trumpet, which is probably made in China
@UbercakeNL if you actually believe the statistics of Cuba- provided by the Cuban government- are true, you are living in a fantasy land. Everyone knows those stats aren't accurate. our healthcare is so damn expensive because of the lack of competition between states and the cost of creating new medicine- from government regulation. You've lived in an entitlement society your whole life, so you have no idea what it's like here. But I dont need to explain this to someone from a non free country.
@SorryForYourBoss Its difficult to fake whether or not ppl can write or at what age they die.. your healthcare system is so expensive because it is badly organised & corrupt, for petes sake healthcare providers are prohibited by law from being able to get free market prices from the drug companies costs are the highest on the planet as a result.. what you have is socialism for the rich & the rest of us get to pay for it. including those of us who do not live in your crooked excuse for a country
@UbercakeNL you really don't know how the US works at all. for one, healthcare is not a RIGHT. if it were, nobody would ever have to pay for it and doctors would be asked to go to school for 10 years so they can earn nothing. secondly, that's exactly my point. government has stepped in and skyrocketed prices. if the government would get out of the private industry, prices would fall and everyone would be able to afford it. Again, your country isn't free so you don't understand this principal.
@SorryForYourBoss You clearly have NO idea what you're talking about. We have homeless kids here, and our health care is NOT far superior to everywhere else if you can't get it or go broke using it.
holy shit did the author of this video really compare stalinist planned economies to the smithian concept of a "market free from rent seekers"? that's an insult to stalin
What the world has suffered from "the religion that markets knows best", that "being greedy is to help others" and dying from censer because you cannot afford healthcare is indicative "of how free we are".
just saw your page.. you subscribe to occupy, which probably means you expect others to pay your bills while you're out being unproductive. That certainly gives you a moral high ground than others, right? And the fact that socialism and communism have both failed every time they've been tried isn't going to deter you from thinking they're good ideas.
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The Friedman economic plan is to make the lower and middle class die out or become slaves to the rich. I'm not sure who these people supporting MF are, people who dream of becoming the ruling class someday? This video is absolutely ridiculous. I would actually pray for SOPA just to get this drivel off of the net.
@crapface000020202020 actually Friedman PROVED that his economic plan elevates the poor and middle classes. Keynes' plan was the one that killed them and turned them into slaves to the rich. Learn about crony capitalism, the leftists best friend.
@svvmichael1 Hard for Friedman to prove that as Keynes' policies have proven to work better in the real world than MF's. Friedman's plans are the ones that are all about crony capitalism as well. Talk about pushing a losing argument.
@manhunter86 Actually, all respected studies prove supply-side works very well and Keynes fails nearly every time. So, for you, an EPIC FAIL. Go get an education. Strong gov't control (with high regulations) are necessary for crony capitalism, and since Friedman opposes nearly all controls and Keynes favors oppressive job killing regulations, you lose BADLY again. Wow, 1 post and 2 ridiculously false statements.
@svvmichael1 Seeing as the ACTUAL NUMBERS from the GAO and a ton of independent sources demonstrate that supply-side policies have NOT benefited the bottom 90% of wage earners, you are in TOTAL FAIL mode. On the other hand, Keynesian policies pulled the US out of the Depression and worked in Western Europe after WW2. What you call "oppressive job killing regulations" is called civilization. Massive Fail on your side, man.
@manhunter86 1) Keynsian policy made the Great Depression last 4-6 years longer. FDR never got below double-digit unemployment until WWII. FACT. 2) GAO, CBO, and independent research PROVES supply-side ELEVATED ALL 5 INCOME quintiles. Being as you are an idiot, a quintile is 1/5. 3) The greatest amount of small business creation, and the greatest number of net jobs created occured under REAGAN. 5) EPIC FAIL MORON. You need to go to a liberal pages where the posters have 65 IQ. Bye.
@svvmichael1 1) Keynesian policies are what helped the US recover from the Depression- FACT. It was when FDR started "balancing the budget" to appease the GOP in his 2nd term that things went South again- FACT. BTW FDR took unemployment from in the mid-30s to the teens by WW2, so you need that context, Einstein. 2) Adjusted for inflation, the bottom 90%'s wages have been flat since 1980. The GAO proves THAT. You are so owned.
@svvmichael1 I lived in the UK in the 80's where Friedman was the economic guru maybe he proved it to you but in the real world empirical evidence proves him to be wrong & to be quite honest most evidence points to him being a charlatan
This is not a debate, it's biased to MF. To prove MF wrong by FACT: I'm from Sweden and we have several companies owned by - the government. They are proven several times to be as good or better run than other companies. They have the highest customer satisfaction, much higher than many private companies. Our prices on pharmaceuticals have been lower than most others, thanks to a government monopoly. We're not a communist country, we have both private and collectively owned companies.
The internet was a bare-bones project until private capital was raised to make it a creative juggernaut. The Apollo program is one of only 3 gov't successes in history. BUT Scandinavia and Holland are both hurting. They have rising unemployment, rising healthcare costs, an oppressive taxation that is beginning to cause natives to emigrate, and all of Europe is on the brink as we speak. Most all of Europe is trying to replace its socialist system with a free market like the U.S. sorry to crush U.
Naomi Klein wouldn't debate anyone, she is a hack and a liar who shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence as Friedman. Klein is nothing but the print form of Michael Moore, and I'm likely discrediting the King of Mocumentary.
Look up "Defaming Milton Friedman - Reason Magazine" at reason,com.
It surgically dissects her book, 'Projection Doctrine'. They expose her lies for what the are and not only do they prove her wrong, they prove her crazy, without saying it of coarse. I would have.
@BustyerUniongoon I have to strongly disagree with you and point out that if you are on Milton's side is only because you are another extremely greedy one.
@analucuta actually, socialism is more about greed than capitalism. And socialism has failed EVERY time it has been tried, while capitalism is responsible for all the great strides of mankind the last 300 years.
@svvmichael1 Actually the form of "socialism" they have in Scandanavia is doing quite well, and Social Democracies in Holland and Germany are as well. They have a healthier public, are better educated, and better income distribution. Free market capitalism is NOT responsible for "all the great strides"- the Internet and Apollo program were functions of govt. spending.
@manhunter86 The internet was a bare-bones project until private capital was raised to make it a creative juggernaut. The Apollo program is one of only 3 gov't successes in history. BUT Scandinavia and Holland are both hurting. They have rising unemployment, rising healthcare costs, an oppressive taxation that is beginning to cause natives to emigrate, and all of Europe is on the brink as we speak. Most all of Europe is trying to replace its socialist system with a free market like the U.S.
@svvmichael1 The Internet was originally "bare bones" because it was conceived as a network without a fixed base for the military, not something for everyday use by the rest of the world. And Europe wants to keep its Social Democratic system in the face of pressure from the globalization forces of the oligarchies trying to create a race to the bottom. Get it right.
@manhunter86 The internet is where it is today because of the free-market. Much of Europe is now turning against it's Social Welfare state because that is the SOLE REASON Europe is teetering on the brink right now. When 65^ of the greek population is on the public dole, it's gonna collapse. But an ignorant socialist like you is too stupid to learn from history. Friedman has proved the European model to be severely flawed.
@analucuta I'm on MF's side, that being reality. Like he said, it's only everyone ELSE that's greedy-get it? If you really want to prove your benevolence, sell up, pack up and go help the poor and starving in say, Africa. If not, improve your comprehension skills and get real.
I would be inclined to defend myself, if not for the absence of your intellect and spine, which seems to have denied you the ability to identify any specifics that you disagree with, even label ... greedy.
As for Mr. Friedman "side", I proudly support the side of a man that has likely done more than anyone to help those living in poverty and oppression end their suffering. Not with a Government Check, but though the dignity of financial liberation.
@manhunter86 Naomi Klein has been exposed as a liar BY OTHER LEFTISTS. She is completely devoid of ANY integrity, her whole career has been to inflame people in order to enrich herself. She is a charlatan and a devil. One of the most anti-semetic humans ever, possibly worse than Hitler.
@manhunter86 Nope, godwin is a fool just like you. Klein is a raging anti-semite, like you. She is one of the biggest liars in history. A whole industry has spung up exposing her lies. Bye now fool.
@manhunter86 Klein is anti-semetic. Her trip to Isreal when she blasted Jews there as worse than Hitler saying "Some jews think we get one get-away-with-genocide-free-card" and slammed them for defending themselves against suicide bombers. That is anti-semetic. And your support of her and her EXPOSED lies makes you an anti-semite AND anti-intellectual. Shock Doctrine is a complete lie. She is a scumbag, and anyone who supports her is a scumbag.
@svvmichael1 There are many Jewish people who don't support every aspect of Israel's policy in regard to the Palenstians. Doesn't make them anti-Semetic. And all my Jewish friends would be surprised to find that I'm anti-Semetic because some blowhard on YouTube doesn't agree with me.
@manhunter86 Well, would your jewish friends like that you support letting Isrealis die? Naomi Klein was wrong on everything in that book. She lied, and everyone knows it. I guess the real shock doctrine is "how much can a liberal lie and still be loved by other mindless liberals?" I guess you are infinitely stupid. That's what liberals do, lie, because no facts support them. Hopefully rectal cancer will cure your ignorance soon.
@svvmichael1 Well it's no shock that, when confronted with Klein's FACTS, a conservative goes off the rails and throws a tantrum. Everyone can see what a classy debater you are- NOT.
@manhunter86 Hmmm, i've read her book, done the research, and found she lied/mischaracterized EVERY situation she descibed. She is a completely unethical human being who doesn't mind seeing dead Isrealis lining the street. Like you she is an anti-semite.
@manhunter86 I am ashamed Naomi Klein is Canadian, as she has a tenuous grasp of facts and reality ... as does her husband Avi Lewis. they are people whose ideology clouds their view of concrete reality ... there are plenty of post modern writers far more capable than Naomi Klein
We are long past Milton and his deceptive arguments, Government has been the greatest job creator in history. Consumers/laborers with need create jobs and capital. They are the job creators, not the rich. Labor is superior to capital.
No one should be taking Friedman seriously. His own arguments in this clip collapse. No big invention came from the government? When Friedman was talking to Phil Donahue he was probably unaware of the Internet (a government invention), but what about the Apollo space program? The nations of Chilie and Argentina suffered a huge loss of freedom in adopting his economic policies.
@manhunter86 A feminazi journalist owns an economist? Wishing it true doesn't make it true. Klein is lucky she didn't have to debate the great man live. Her "achievement" in life?-promoting a failed ideology! Really, your hypocrisy is breathtaking. Everything you have-the roof over your head, your food, computer, clothes, gadgets, transport and what not is produced by a system you so despise but couldn't live without. Feel free to move to Nth Korea.
@muzzster1970 Her work takes down Friedman's talking points, and completely shows how his "freedom-loving" economic "theories" are pretty incompatible with ACTUAL freedom. Not to mention that they make living conditions WORSE for about 80-85% of the people.
Neither Klein or I hate capitalism, we hate the failed "free market" Chicago school of crony capitalism. We both have it over you and Friedman in our arguments. Of course, trumping you is quite easy.
@manhunter86 Her "work"? She wouldn't know what a day's work was if she fell over it. Don't hate Capitalism? Oh, please, now you're just beclowning yourself. "We are the 99% repressed by the eeeevil rich people"-and the alternative? Socialism? Grow up and get real. Your hero, BO, heavily engages in crony Capitalism, something MF actually hated, so you unwittingly agree with him.
@muzzster1970 LOL besides the fact you couldn't argue your way out of a paper bag, you continue to demonstrate you have no idea what you're talking about. It's fun to own you the same way Klein owns Friedman.
@manhunter86 I can see how he might have trouble. It's senseless to argue with either you or Klein, who use the free-market and crony-capitalism synonymously. Your argument: here is strawman, watch me tear it down, I owned you...
@taylorzr If you can't understand that unfettered ("free market") capitalism has always led to cronyism and oligarchies, while Social Democracies with stronger regulation have proven more successfull, then yeah, you'd want to pretend otherwise. Cause you're on the wrong side of THAT argument, dude.
@taylorzr If you can't understand that unfettered ("free market") capitalism has always led to cronyism and oligarchies, while Social Democracies with stronger regulation have proven more successfull, then yeah, you'd want to pretend otherwise. Cause you're on the wrong side of THAT argument, dude.
@manhunter86 If you can't understand that unfettered government has always led to abuse of power, then yeah, just blame the free market for distortions caused by government. Regulations are written to keep competition out of markets. But you're not opposed to cronyism, you just think your team should be in charge, brah...
@taylorzr If you can't understand that under-regulated, and unregulated, capitalism lead to more monopolies, a growing concentration of wealth in fewer hands, and a lower standard of living for 80-90% of the people, then you would make false and asinine statements. And yeah, I think people who understand reality- as opposed to the deluded Chicago school of thought- should be in charge. It's not cronyism, it's sanity.
@manhunter86 I want choice for myself, not power for you or the Chicago school. Though I do enjoy how you make statements assumed true without any explanation, and yet predetermine any of my thoughts as asinine. (This happens, if you disagree, you stupid) If you want to hold old to your naivety, go right ahead. You'll fit in to the american economic landscape beautifully. Just not sure why you bother speaking in the first place. You must love the sound of your own typing?
@taylorzr I'm replying to the dopey statements you keep making, not "predeterming" them. You keep obviously conflating normal and necessary govt. regulation with corruption. There are times when the govt (at least those in part of it) are corrupt and screw things up via state power. Not the same thing as imposing necessary regulation to tame the excesses of free market capitalism that ALWAYS occur when they have a chance to. Man, you're dense.
@manhunter86 We've established you prefer baseless comments, but please do us a favor and explain. 1. Why is regulation necessary. 2. Why do free market excesses ALWAYS occur. What exactly is a free market excess?
@taylorzr Not baseless comments, just stronger arguments than yours.
1. Regulation is necessary as the need of a independent refree is to a game. Otherwise you're apt to have 2 sides arguing over everything and more importantly, abuse from those holding the most capital (see Foxconn in Taepai for where a regulation-free envirnoment can get you). Regulation is also necessary to bring external costs to bear that producers would otherwise avoid.
@taylorzr Example- a factory would likely dump waste into a river or any other body of water without a second thought of the cost to the "commons", as in strict capitalistic terms they're just getting rid of it. Regulation aims that they don't merely pollute the water that we all need. No producer would willfully impose that cost on themselves- "we" need regulation to protect envirnomental areas that aren't naturally engaged in the business process.
@taylorzr 2. From the Glided Age on, unregulated capital tends to wind in fewer and fewer hands. Rather than dominate a market with a "superior" product, they tend to dominate by monopolistic practices and corruption. Reaching monopoly status, the consumer finds higher prices for inferior products and services, with few remedies in the form of competition. But that's just the marketplace.
@taylorzr "Free market excesses" are best understood as capital manipulations, created by and serving those closest to the capital, as opposed to the Average Joe. Like the manuvers by Bain Capital. I don't doubt that Bain did well for their investors and esp. their partners, but that "success" was a short term profit that came at the expense of a lot of Average Joe's jobs. With less regulations the market behaves more like a casino, with 99% of us losing.
@manhunter86 that is true. Totally freedom leads to monopolies and trusts.The actual enemies of free market. There has to be somebody setting the rules and punish the outlaws.
@manhunter86 "a lower standard of living for 80-90% of the people," Lower standard compared to what, a regulated market, socialism, manhunteropia? A free market encourages efficient use of resources. Those who don't use resources efficiently, directed towards the most immediate need go bankrupt. So, you'll have to explain how this lowers any standard of living.
@taylorzr Chilie, 1973- 90% of the population suffers a drop in living standards after Friedman's policies enacted. In Argentina, in the late 70's, again 90% of the nation suffers a drop in living standards after the "Chicago school" method is introduced. Ditto the UK and USA with Thatcher and Reagan, though not as high in the percentages (and the US had easy credit mask over its drop over the past 30 years).
@svvmichael1 Wrong shmuck. I am killing you guys with the facts. I live in reality- you live in MF's Libertarian Delusionland. And studies prove me right and you wrong. Owned.
@manhunter86 FACT: Since 1970, peer-reviewed articles proving supply-side economics is the best model available-1,263, that Keynesianism is the best model available-147. YOU JUST GOT PWNED. You are just an uneducated, lazy, fucktard that can't make money on his own so you justify stealing from your betters. You are a sad,sad, little man.
@svvmichael1 You can have a bunch of Koch and Scaife funded think tanks try and tell you that, or the credible and independent studies that show Keynesianism has worked when applied in the US and Western Europe. Supply-side in the US made the stock market and corporate profits rise, and was great to the top 10%. Everyone else saw their wages stay flat and lost benefits. Owned.
@taylorzr A "free" market as you define will strip away protections for that bottom 80-90%. So sure, the stock markets and capital bases will see a rise. They will come at the expense of the majority of the population. What you call "inefficency" is known as a living wage for the average person. So your "market" may gain but the average person, up to 90% of them, will lose.
@manhunter86 "A "free" market as you define will strip away protections for that bottom 80-90%"
Disproven time and time again. And who is protecting those 90%? The government? They have done no such thing. Anytihng government does with "good" intentions mostly ends up as a disaster. Unless of course if it is within it's own interest.
@tehatemachine Wrong again. Labor protections, such as the 8 hour workday, the 40 hour week, disability insurance, unemployment....all these things that absolutely DO protect the bottom 90%- did the free market provide these out of good will, or did they come through the force of law via govt. regulation? Same with envirnomental protections. Your point is easily disproven.
@manhunter86 "all these things that absolutely DO protect the bottom 90%" You need to read you history the facts are clearly against you in the actual point. There are still many jobs out there that go above 8 hours. Unions did not create the middle class. That is a proven fact, and the push for higher wages didn't come by unions, They came from workers. Wages are set by the market and also notice how many U.S manufacturing jobs are gone.
"or did they come through the force of law via govt. regulation? Same with environmental protections. Your point is easily disproven."
You point is in defense of unions, However I am In a union. Did I have a choice when signing into the job to accept them or not? If i said no then I wouldn't be able to have the job which i needed. I pay them a large sum each month for "protection" So farThey have done no such thing. So your point is invalid.
@tehatemachine No, my point stands. The regulations I speak of were created by union negoiations (and I am a member of one too) but then put into regulations that protected nearly every workplace, irregardless of whether union or not. Like the 8 hour day. That is part of CA state law here, union or non-union. You can only circumvent it by offering BETTER wages than the state minimum.
@manhunter86 Many small businesses though cannot even make the state minimum. It's a funny thing to because when discussing economics we seem to only mention the large ones. But in fact small ones make up a huge chunk of the pie to. I strongly oppose the minimum wage standard. It is the most racist law there is on the books.
@tehatemachine I'm aware that small businesses do the bulk of the hiring, and that some of them are extremely small and family-run. Nonetheless, $8/hour (the highest minimum wage in the US) at a fulltime job, 40 hours a week all year, keeps someone just barely above the poverty line. The minimum wage is NOT too high:the "free" market has set the value of nominal wages too low.
would you pay someone the lets say $25 hr that just starts in the same job like you,making the same money (without any skills and experience) that you earn in your job ,with all the skills and experience you gathered over the years ?
@Hoschi0913 This situation is not analogus to the concept of a minimum wage. The minimum wage says no matter how unskilled, basic human labor is worth at LEAST this much, even if it is higher than where the free market would place it (as the free market accepts no responsibility for peoples' survival). Your situation is merely making wages equal on a arbitrary basis.
that might be a arbitrary basis,but the point i make is about "fairness",alot scream for "fair" pay,how much is it? besides,if there wouldnt be the minimum wage,company's would hire more due to less cost and if they dont pay enough,they wouldnt get any employee anyways,the market would regulate itself,as is with the minimum wage,employers wait until they really really have to hire someone before they do so,or just let run some more overtime,which is cheaper than hire 1
sure human labor has a certain value,but they are not all the same,due to skill and experience,but it is up to each and everyone to define that value for themself,gov't can't and schouldn't define that,because one shoe fits all does just not apply
@Hoschi0913 I'm not talking about the variation in the value of labor (a doctor is "worth" more than a janitor), I'm talking about the need to impose a floor, which says no matter if the market would place even less value on their labor, every person has to be worth a minimum amount.
@Hoschi0913 First of all, if you accept that basic human survival is paramount, then you reject strict economic dogma of supply and demand in regards to wages. Because the supply of people in many instances insures thier economic value is less than what it costs for them survive UNLESS you institute- against the entirely "free" market-a floor that human labor is worth at least whatever the povery line is. The market will not regulate itself in regards to that.
@Hoschi0913 Second, the "fairness" aspect is that what the "market" values is out of sync with what "society" values. The market values who it sees as "successfull" CEOs simply because of the capital return they think they can provide. They don't value the "average" worker because it sees them as interchangeable. A "fairer" society is stronger than a totally market-based one, as it benefits society more to have greater compensation for the "average" worker at the expense of the CEOs-
@Hoschi0913 - rather than the other way around. The "fairness" part is that from a societial value, it's not "fair" that so few get so much more than everyone else, and 90% keep having to take less to underwrite the cost of the successfull 10%. And that the top never loses- a fired CEO gets a golden parachute, workers at a "successfull" company still have their wages frozen.
i see it a little different,1. human "capital" or labor is extremly wide spreed,you can have it anytime anywhere to any condition (btw thats the flaw in your statement,you are static),2. to have a "fair" society,you will need someone that decides what fair is,that enforces this fairness and oversees that it doesnt get violated,3. CEO's,yes they make alot of money,but they also spend alot of time away from their families,long hours on work 16+ at times,responsible ......
for new markets to sell the product,new costumers,new product line and alot more,i wouldnt want to do their job and most i know after they get a glimbs of what they are responsible for (and not only see the money) agree with me,4. if you do not have companys and CEO's,who is providing the jobs from which you can earn your living? if you dont make enough to support your expenses (like I-Phone4 etc),cut down on them or educate yourself/learn some more to get a better job..
after all,it is your life and you are the only one who can,will and has to live it,in other words you are responsible for yourself,your decision and your way you go in life,dont like the way thing go for you,see above learn something else or more in the job you are in,if you dont put any effort in anything,how can you expect to have a better life?but yes i agree,society paints a picture of what you have to have and how you should be,up 2 you if it is right for you or not
@Hoschi0913 1. Actually it IS static. Capital can up and move anywhere: I can't move to Holland and start working there next week, not without their permission. Human labor is not that flexible. 2. That someone is the govt., which is meant to answer to us. I don't have a problem with them deciding. 3) No violins for the CEOs, please. Lots of people work that hard- CEOs don't deserve 400 times more salarly as the average person. They're not working THAT much harder.
1.if it really would be that static,we wouldnt have illegals that do farm jobs,they manage to go someplace other than their own country and do it ,how is it that you cant?
2. if you like big gov't thats decide for you,there are countrys that provide that,feel free to move there,dont change our Republic
3.CEO's may not work physicaly hard,but unlike the average person,they have responsibillities,to keep the company running,the people employed,paychecks,taxes,healthcare..
@Hoschi0913 1. Catch the part about being "illegal"? As in not allowed to be a citizen or vote? That people are desperate enough to do it illegaly doesn't count. My point stands.
2. Stop obessing over "the Republic". A civilization has wage and safety regulations- period.
3. I wasn't talking strictly in terms of physical labor. Most people work long hours and have responsibilties. CEOs may have more, but not 400 times more. Get real here.
@manhunter86 In one dimension. However, If you eliminated the minimum wage standard. People would be hired far more quickly and have more opportunity to get into the field and quickly move up. It is a TERRIBLE law that only sounds good on paper (and of course we all like a little bit extra cash in our pockets)
@tehatemachine Not to mention the ability for employers to hire people at a low wage to train them for more of a full time position. It's very expensive to train new employees when they have to make a min. wage, so employer have to rely on the HS and higher education system to do it.
Also, labor is like any other commodity, the more it costs the less people will spend on it.
@tehatemachine Again, this is all wrong. Because while the value of a good like widgets may rise and fall, people are decidedly different in that we have a humanistic interest in keeping them, um, alive. A warehouse of widgets can sit there until their value in the market rises:people can't just sit there waiting for their value to rise. In order to survive, they have to have a floor to their value.
@tehatemachine Wrong again. Labor costs aren't so fungible that they can drop down to nothing (i.e. below the poverty line) just because the supply allows it so. You want to run an enterprise, you can't pollute or pay people pennies just because it's more profitable. I see corporations with enough profit to pay people a living wage. Get with the program.
@manhunter86 You are preventing the young and minorities from obtaining skills in certain fields , It keeps alot of people out while providing protection for many of us already in the union. And there are alot of lazy workers especially where i work at that aren't being fired because of it. If there where no minimum wage law you'd see more people working everywhere and moving up or onto higher paying fields with skills they've already learned, There would be far more to go around.
@manhunter86 Unions are on their last legs because they are useless. Unions paired with leftist taxes/regulations are the reason most union manufacturing jobs are now located in china, mexico, korea, etc. You idiots are too stupid to realize the leftists are your enemy and your union leaders are your enemy. Idiots.
@svvmichael1 Unions are the last strand democratizing the economy. Economic liberalization and the financialization of the economy are responsible for the offshoring. The only reason Korea has a strong economy is that did not do these neoliberal adjustments. Also, Adam Smith argues that a preference for the use of domestic industry over foreign industry to gain individual profit constitutes an "invisible" and benevolent hand, far from what Freidman's fools understand.
@konnichiwa53 Your are completely wrong. Unions overprice labor ($/hr, benefits,etc), regulations increase both fixed and variable costs, taxes reduce net income. You need to learn accounting, finance, and economics. Then come back and you'll understand why you are wrong. Unions are force and socialism, not democracy. If every UAW guy at Ford must make the same, why would any of them become more skilled, and if they do they can't ask for a raise....
@svvmichael1 I am an agricultural analyst, thanks for the advice but I know the neoliberal Chicago boy playbook and her faults. Business is most efficient under worker control, every country following Friedman's path has been left shambles. Name a country most are turning back to Socialism, no it is not a dirty word. Neoliberal deregulation and financialization are violent elite making poverty drivers, look at the USA or Argentina. Sane economics are returning this dead man is done
@konnichiwa53 You are obviously ignorant of business, accounting, finance, economics, and history. ALL socialist countries have failed. No true free-market countries have ever failed. Workers don't know how to run a company, that is why they are workers, if they knew how they'd start a company. If you'd like an education I can help you get one. Going through life ignorant is not going to be fun for you.
@svvmichael1 I disagree. Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Finland, have not fallen, I believe you are referring to communist countries, or countries the United states posed military coups in. You seek ad hominem attacks over actual engagement and that shows through with most right wingers. Argentina was driven to the ground by neoliberalism and factory takeover by workers has brought back their standard of living. We need the same in the rust belt, besides US capitalism is state subsidized
@konnichiwa53 You are wrong. Those countries are not very solid, and their lifestyle is nowhere near most american's high-quality. I have crushed your very infantile claims with solid points backed with fact. Argentina was a dictatorship (as was Chile) and therefore not a true free-market. Your claims there are invalid. And it is Carville and the left that is all about attacking. You need an education boy.
@svvmichael1 Good lord you are really into the ad hominem attack and provided no points or facts. Argentina and Chile were American created dictatorships, Freidman mused on them as "miracles". There exists no free market in USA, all the tech firms were founded through government research and grants, same for military, pharmaceuticals and heavy industry. Then they receive the insurance policy of too big to fail. The USA has atrocious health care and poor education and horrid poverty
@konnichiwa53 It is you who stardted the ad hominem attacks. I think you like to add hominems to your ad hominem attacks. WRONG, they created themselves with some minor tinkering. Pinochet got power because the socialist Allende created 200% inflation...WOW there is a solid economy. Allende murdered many opponents as well. Those are countries that just suck. Little freedom, so not a free-market. Friedman hoped their economic gains (and they did improve over their previous regimes..
@svvmichael1 Lost all cred? and racist too!incredible, thanks for your incisive wit, can we throw a FAIL in there too? The only reason they are the "rich of the world" (which is a joke right?) is because of social security and other measures meant to prevent total collapse. The United States has a higher infant mortality rate than Cuba and more like Estonia and Hungary, people lack preventative care and the system's private nature costs the country billions, so take your Freidman ha
@EarlRegent You said comfortably higher. WRONG, they are essentially THE SAME. Leanr statistics and standard deviation you idiot. US poor are the best off poor in the world. you can't dispute that. I crushed all your lies. bye now fool. And there is NO respected studies to refute the IQ standards. FAIL
@konnichiwa53 We have a higher infant mortality because that is the only healthcare Cuba has. Our black and Latin populationare the reason for the lower average. look at white infant mortality in the u.s., it is about as low as it can get fool.
@konnichiwa53 ...would translate into greater overall freedom). Once Those dictators had power though, they refused to relinquish...just another leftist dictator. The USA has the best healthcare in the world you moron. You EPIC FAIL...LOLOLOLOL You have lost all credibility you idiot Jap mutha fucka. LOLOL you are dumb. And our education (minus the underacheiving black schools) are actually top 5 in the world, and our universities are the best. BTW, our poor are rich vs the world.
@svvmichael1 Are you like 12 years old? Are you aware that the Japanese IQ is comfortably higher than the American IQ (minus the black schools)? Ignorance breeds ignorance. As far as your idea of the American poor; you are wrong again, wealth is calculated on GDP and per capita income and the US is not at the top at all. There are countries where the poor are better off than the American poor. Ignorance is bliss! Wow!
@EarlRegent WRONG on all points. What are you 4 yearsold? 1) IQ by race, black 85, latin 89, white 105, asian 107, jew 109. HMMMMMM looks like you FAIL. 2) The american poor are wealthy vs most of the world's populations. FAIL. 3) Someone making $10k in US is sorta poor, put them in bangladesh he is wealthy.
@svvmichael1 Wtf? Are you on drugs? First of all your own racial separation of IQ results say exactly what I said about Japanese people having higher IQ'S. So what are you talking about you complete idiot? Secondly, yes there are countries with higher per capita income than the US with a better off poor population. You just confirmed this by saying the US's poor is better off than most of the world, not all. LOL! You just agreed with everything I said you moron,
@EarlRegent You said comfortably higher. WRONG, they are essentially THE SAME. Leanr statistics and standard deviation you idiot. US poor are the best off poor in the world. you can't dispute that. I crushed all your lies. bye now fool.
@EarlRegent You said comfortably higher. WRONG, they are essentially THE SAME. Leanr statistics and standard deviation you idiot. US poor are the best off poor in the world. you can't dispute that. I crushed all your lies. bye now fool. And there is NO respected studies to refute the IQ standards. FAIL.
@svvmichael1 and your racist views on IQ are very questionable. There re volumes of works debunking that nonsense Bell Curve inspired bigoted rubbish.
@EarlRegent So it is not only me being hounded by this pseudo-libertarian crackpot. Best to just avoid conversing with this one, he has even made a blog to spew this Randian nonsense.
@konnichiwa53 I noticed he called you a 'Jap' and is one of those simpletons that think they understand everything about economics and race but in actual fact are as poorly informed as those that came before them.
@svvmichael1 It's obvious you are unable to comprehend that you made a fool of yourself my agreeing with your opponent. Now you talk of people being crushed? Lol! You are a worshipper of your own flesh; a narcissist. You are also displaying slight sociopathic tendencies. What an asinine conversation considering you stupidly accepted I am right, so what else is there to say you idiot.
@EarlRegent I did not agree with you on ANY points. I crushed you. You are too stupid to understand that because of your 3rd grade education. In IQ scores 104 qand 106 are nearly identical, not "comfortably higher". Since you do not understand standard deviation, you can learn it in 5th grade math.
@svvmichael1 You bore me. Perhaps it's best you go to your counterfeit Nazi meeting or whatever it is narcissists do. Your keyboard warrior activities/crusades are a waste of time. You will not convince people to believe in your filth. The IQ results for some groups have not even reached their potential yet as documented. I believe they rise every few decades for blacks, for example, whilst Caucasian result shave remained the same. There are also other studies that look at European DNA in blacks
@svvmichael1 and how that correlates to intelligence and the results where trivial. There are also very notable challenges to those racist and racist funded studies that can fill a book. You are not interested in the data; you are merely grabbing the works of a few race based scientists and running with it. Even your language and manner displays no interest in any information. You can not make something true because you want it to be so badly. Consult a psychologists.
@EarlRegent You are really a sick fuck. Does your race-hatred of blacks extend that far? Why don't you get some psychological help instead of spewing your feces across the internet. The studies I referrences are irrefutable, and your response "there may be studies that might contradict, i think..." You are an ignorant leftist that is too stupid to understand that Keynesianism, socialism, communism have always failed, while supply-side succeeds fabulously. The data backs it up. bye.
@svvmichael1 'irrefutable"? Hahahaha! Non peer reviewed crap papers sponsored by well known racist groups. 'irrefutable'? You are truly an ignorant piece of shit aren't you? I don't even know why a moron like you thinks that Milton Friedman is a racistl? He is certainly not and it's filth like you that contaminate conservatism.Yes conservatism. I am fully on the right and I came to listen to Friedman not some racist asshole that associates everything with the right to be racist.You are misguided
@svvmichael1 No data backs anything up; I will repeat, you are not interested in any data you got what you wanted from fellow racist persons. If you are interested in the truth you would have asked for the studies I mentioned and a full refutation of the racist studies for you to review. That's how it works in the real world child. One has to consider all the evidence not just what one wants. *face palm*.
@svvmichael1 You do realize leaving comments, such as the ones you did on my channel can be considered unlawful to say the least right? Maybe even liable.
@EarlRegent 1) It is lawful to leave those comments. 2) It is not liable. You, however, are an idiot. Even idiots know the burden online is extemely high on you. Plus, what I posted is true.
@svvmichael1 Please, explain how what you posted is true considering you don't even have the intellect to comprehend that Earl is a title(not a name) lol! Go on, provide the evidence.
Surprisingly enough I'm not about to publish a book in the comments section of a youtube video. though for the average conservative neanderthal this is enough to condemn me in itself, this merely shows the lack of intellectual rigour in their commentary, should I wish to waste my time writing a whole book on why Freidman is intellectually corrupt, not only would it be a very short & uninteresting book but no one would buy it (given that ppl who uphold his theories don't read they merely preach)
UbercakeNL 16 hours ago
Well to be honest... his life's work deserves no more than a passing mention.... other than the damage that has been caused by people who have used his misguided pseudo intellectual claptrap as an excuse to shaft the vast majority of people for their own personal gain (or in the case of Thatcher to feed her megalomania) & as for RPSF2008 are you being paid by the US state department to carry out some hopeless propaganda mission or are you just allergic to books?....
UbercakeNL 16 hours ago
meanwhile back on planet earth.... the guy is(was) an arsehole.... he knew what he was saying & he knew why.... lets not get distracted with the truth & listen to uncle Milton who will tell us how it really is LOL.... to be honest he looks like a psychopath & probably is one....
UbercakeNL 18 hours ago
@UbercakeNL
Wow. It's a good job Friedman is dead because there's no way he could come back from such a devastating refutation of his lifes work.
Well done, sir. You should co-auther a new book with Ms Klein
RPFS2008 16 hours ago
Its not a debate if the opponent is not present. Why not call this boxing or a chess competition.
Go win a nobel prize in economics or at least earn a PhD, actually I doubt you could even take an integral.
ec0n1n0thuman 1 day ago
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lictor313 4 days ago in playlist Naomi Klein
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lictor313 4 days ago in playlist Naomi Klein
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lictor313 4 days ago in playlist Naomi Klein
@lictor313 Haha nice conspiracy theory there lictor, actually you must be in high society spelling unsophisticated so well and all.
konnichiwa53 3 days ago
@MastahYupa the two are not comparable. I live in a state (California) that has a population 400% larger than that of your entire country. The state of California's GDP is 300% higher than of the entire country of Sweden. Your government may work smoother and more efficient, but you have a very small population and a very small economy.
SorryForYourBoss 4 days ago
@SorryForYourBoss so what you are saying is ... if there are more than 8 million PPL in your country you have to treat them like shit??? or am I missing some big point here?
UbercakeNL 16 hours ago
@UbercakeNL I'm saying you can't compare two systems when the population is 300,000,000 different. And people in America are not treated like shit. At all. We give people unemployment for 99 weeks. That's enough to get an AA degree...Perhaps do some research before you ever post anything ever again. People in America have it better than people in any other country in the world, despite what your media or our media portrays.
SorryForYourBoss 15 hours ago
@SorryForYourBoss meanwhile back on planet earth... I come from the UK (Pop60M) I live in NL (Pop 16M) By all international rankings the US scores WAY lower than any scandinavian country or the NL and substantially lower than Fr Ger & even Spain debt is higher than any western country apart from the UK. people DIE for lack of healthcare there are MILLIONS of homeless CHILDREN in the US ... & you have the cheek to tell ME to read & tell me whether or not I have the right to post. ARROGANT SCUM
UbercakeNL 15 hours ago
@UbercakeNL we don't have homeless children here. any children that are homeless are homeless because of the parents that don't give them up for adoption. the government takes care of all children. Our health CARE is far superior to everywhere in the country. Our health INSURANCE is a wreck, but it can be fixed without nationalizing it like some of the less effective health CARE countries. There's a reason people are lined up by the millions to get in here...it's not because they love socialism.
SorryForYourBoss 15 hours ago
@SorryForYourBoss everywhere in the world*
SorryForYourBoss 15 hours ago
@UbercakeNL and until you know what it's like here, and how much people love it, you won't understand. Enjoy your ivory tower
SorryForYourBoss 15 hours ago
@SorryForYourBoss you are just so obsessed with the alleged 'wonderfulness of the US' that you seem to have parted company with reality
UbercakeNL 14 hours ago
@UbercakeNL the reality is people here make more money, we have the same % of people living in poverty, except here they have a chance to move up in society through hard work and patience. Sorry that we don't feel the need to leech off of others. Nobody is dying to get into England. Nobody is sneaking across the border in the UK. People risk their lives everyday to get in to the US. Because it's the greatest nation on earth and that's a fact. Listen to the immigrants if you don't believe me.
SorryForYourBoss 14 hours ago
@SorryForYourBoss try and get some facts. 1people are in fact dying to get in to the UK. in containers under the channel tunnel trains etc. 2poverty in % terms is way higher than most european countries & not comparable to northern europe, 3. US debt is per capita the highest of any industrialised country (bar 1 the UK) not leaching?? something like a third of everything you & your countryfolk spend is OTHER PPLs money. The immigrants, no welfare no healthcare no greencard they are slaves
UbercakeNL 14 hours ago
@UbercakeNL you do realize that everytime you use a service provided by the government, you're using other people's money right? government has nothing. it takes from others. in your country, high taxes are forced upon the more wealthy and given to others. that is the opposite of freedom. and yes, when people sneak into the country we don't feel the need to provide them with healhtcare that OTHER people pay for. again, you can't understand this concept because you live in a nanny state.
SorryForYourBoss 14 hours ago
@SorryForYourBoss well you shot yourself in the foot in the first sentence, the underlying philosophy is that poor ppl should sell their children to rich ppl. healthcare in the US is notorious for costing more than any other country with worse outcomes than countries who spend per capita well under half what is spent in the US, Cubans live longer & are more literate than US citizens due to a decent education & health system, despite being a 3rd world country under a 50 year economic blockade'
UbercakeNL 14 hours ago
@UbercakeNL & as for ppl 'lining up in their millions' they would rather be somewhere in europe if they could manage it, because there is healthcare & a decent education for the kids.... OH SORRY REALITY CHECK.... UNPLEASANT BUT TRUE.... the US is finished as a world power.... ironically due to a mixture of greed & hubris.... they are actually destroying their own world position by spending all of their money on the military industrial complex.. the greatest irony being that they have no enemy
UbercakeNL 14 hours ago
@UbercakeNL if people wanted to go to Europe, they would. Nobody wants to because there's no opportunity there. Even if you do make it and become successful, Europe says 'No, give your stuff to others". I find it hard to believe you're actually commenting on a nation you've never been to. I've been inside hospitals in the UK and Europe. They're not good. Why do you think people come here to see specialists and get surgeries? The U.S. is a far superior place to live than anywhere in Europe.
SorryForYourBoss 14 hours ago
@SorryForYourBoss most of my US friends would not agree with you ... but perhaps that is because they have not been overwhelmed by narcissism and actually do care about stuff other than their own wallet.... you have yet to explain why poor ppl should give their children up for adoption I would like to hear it as your rote learned 'everyone else is a commie' stuff is both boring & inaccurate, I will not be posting again since you only want to blow your own trumpet, which is probably made in China
UbercakeNL 13 hours ago
@UbercakeNL if you actually believe the statistics of Cuba- provided by the Cuban government- are true, you are living in a fantasy land. Everyone knows those stats aren't accurate. our healthcare is so damn expensive because of the lack of competition between states and the cost of creating new medicine- from government regulation. You've lived in an entitlement society your whole life, so you have no idea what it's like here. But I dont need to explain this to someone from a non free country.
SorryForYourBoss 14 hours ago
@SorryForYourBoss Its difficult to fake whether or not ppl can write or at what age they die.. your healthcare system is so expensive because it is badly organised & corrupt, for petes sake healthcare providers are prohibited by law from being able to get free market prices from the drug companies costs are the highest on the planet as a result.. what you have is socialism for the rich & the rest of us get to pay for it. including those of us who do not live in your crooked excuse for a country
UbercakeNL 14 hours ago
@UbercakeNL you really don't know how the US works at all. for one, healthcare is not a RIGHT. if it were, nobody would ever have to pay for it and doctors would be asked to go to school for 10 years so they can earn nothing. secondly, that's exactly my point. government has stepped in and skyrocketed prices. if the government would get out of the private industry, prices would fall and everyone would be able to afford it. Again, your country isn't free so you don't understand this principal.
SorryForYourBoss 14 hours ago
@SorryForYourBoss You clearly have NO idea what you're talking about. We have homeless kids here, and our health care is NOT far superior to everywhere else if you can't get it or go broke using it.
manhunter86 4 hours ago
"Oh no one believes that anymore!"
Please, that is one of the most intellectually vacuous arguments I have ever heard.
"Don't you think other people are greedy too", ergo we must be greedy.
Once again, an argument based not on principle but convenience, which I probably should never expect anything better.
letsmakeapoint 4 days ago
holy shit did the author of this video really compare stalinist planned economies to the smithian concept of a "market free from rent seekers"? that's an insult to stalin
afaultytoaster 5 days ago
What the world has suffered from "the religion that markets knows best", that "being greedy is to help others" and dying from censer because you cannot afford healthcare is indicative "of how free we are".
infiniteinfiniteinfi 1 week ago
@infiniteinfiniteinfi
just saw your page.. you subscribe to occupy, which probably means you expect others to pay your bills while you're out being unproductive. That certainly gives you a moral high ground than others, right? And the fact that socialism and communism have both failed every time they've been tried isn't going to deter you from thinking they're good ideas.
DraughtOfPeace 1 week ago
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deadadelta 1 week ago
Friedman wins hands down !!
spernoadversa 1 week ago
@spernoadversa in some parallel universe I guess....
UbercakeNL 14 hours ago
"Milton Friedman Debates Naomi Klein"
..how is that posible I thought he was dead ?!
TheKnolopox 1 week ago
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TheKnolopox 1 week ago
The Friedman economic plan is to make the lower and middle class die out or become slaves to the rich. I'm not sure who these people supporting MF are, people who dream of becoming the ruling class someday? This video is absolutely ridiculous. I would actually pray for SOPA just to get this drivel off of the net.
crapface000020202020 1 week ago
@crapface000020202020 You have probably never even read anything by or about Milton Friedman.
arenor 1 week ago
@crapface000020202020 Unless of course it was from a Saul Alinsky quote or The Shock Doctrine.
arenor 1 week ago
@crapface000020202020 actually Friedman PROVED that his economic plan elevates the poor and middle classes. Keynes' plan was the one that killed them and turned them into slaves to the rich. Learn about crony capitalism, the leftists best friend.
svvmichael1 1 week ago
@svvmichael1 Hard for Friedman to prove that as Keynes' policies have proven to work better in the real world than MF's. Friedman's plans are the ones that are all about crony capitalism as well. Talk about pushing a losing argument.
manhunter86 6 days ago
@manhunter86 Actually, all respected studies prove supply-side works very well and Keynes fails nearly every time. So, for you, an EPIC FAIL. Go get an education. Strong gov't control (with high regulations) are necessary for crony capitalism, and since Friedman opposes nearly all controls and Keynes favors oppressive job killing regulations, you lose BADLY again. Wow, 1 post and 2 ridiculously false statements.
svvmichael1 6 days ago
@svvmichael1 Seeing as the ACTUAL NUMBERS from the GAO and a ton of independent sources demonstrate that supply-side policies have NOT benefited the bottom 90% of wage earners, you are in TOTAL FAIL mode. On the other hand, Keynesian policies pulled the US out of the Depression and worked in Western Europe after WW2. What you call "oppressive job killing regulations" is called civilization. Massive Fail on your side, man.
manhunter86 5 days ago
@manhunter86 1) Keynsian policy made the Great Depression last 4-6 years longer. FDR never got below double-digit unemployment until WWII. FACT. 2) GAO, CBO, and independent research PROVES supply-side ELEVATED ALL 5 INCOME quintiles. Being as you are an idiot, a quintile is 1/5. 3) The greatest amount of small business creation, and the greatest number of net jobs created occured under REAGAN. 5) EPIC FAIL MORON. You need to go to a liberal pages where the posters have 65 IQ. Bye.
svvmichael1 5 days ago
@svvmichael1 1) Keynesian policies are what helped the US recover from the Depression- FACT. It was when FDR started "balancing the budget" to appease the GOP in his 2nd term that things went South again- FACT. BTW FDR took unemployment from in the mid-30s to the teens by WW2, so you need that context, Einstein. 2) Adjusted for inflation, the bottom 90%'s wages have been flat since 1980. The GAO proves THAT. You are so owned.
manhunter86 1 day ago
@svvmichael1 I lived in the UK in the 80's where Friedman was the economic guru maybe he proved it to you but in the real world empirical evidence proves him to be wrong & to be quite honest most evidence points to him being a charlatan
UbercakeNL 14 hours ago
This is not a debate!
rostaines 1 week ago
This is not a debate, it's biased to MF. To prove MF wrong by FACT: I'm from Sweden and we have several companies owned by - the government. They are proven several times to be as good or better run than other companies. They have the highest customer satisfaction, much higher than many private companies. Our prices on pharmaceuticals have been lower than most others, thanks to a government monopoly. We're not a communist country, we have both private and collectively owned companies.
MastahYupa 1 week ago 2
The internet was a bare-bones project until private capital was raised to make it a creative juggernaut. The Apollo program is one of only 3 gov't successes in history. BUT Scandinavia and Holland are both hurting. They have rising unemployment, rising healthcare costs, an oppressive taxation that is beginning to cause natives to emigrate, and all of Europe is on the brink as we speak. Most all of Europe is trying to replace its socialist system with a free market like the U.S. sorry to crush U.
svvmichael1 1 week ago
here is the Hitler of economy talking.
analucuta 1 week ago
@analucuta naomi klein is an idiot, but to call her Hitler is harsh.
svvmichael1 1 week ago
Naomi Klein wouldn't debate anyone, she is a hack and a liar who shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence as Friedman. Klein is nothing but the print form of Michael Moore, and I'm likely discrediting the King of Mocumentary.
Look up "Defaming Milton Friedman - Reason Magazine" at reason,com.
It surgically dissects her book, 'Projection Doctrine'. They expose her lies for what the are and not only do they prove her wrong, they prove her crazy, without saying it of coarse. I would have.
BustyerUniongoon 1 week ago
@BustyerUniongoon I have to strongly disagree with you and point out that if you are on Milton's side is only because you are another extremely greedy one.
analucuta 1 week ago
@analucuta actually, socialism is more about greed than capitalism. And socialism has failed EVERY time it has been tried, while capitalism is responsible for all the great strides of mankind the last 300 years.
svvmichael1 1 week ago
@svvmichael1 Actually the form of "socialism" they have in Scandanavia is doing quite well, and Social Democracies in Holland and Germany are as well. They have a healthier public, are better educated, and better income distribution. Free market capitalism is NOT responsible for "all the great strides"- the Internet and Apollo program were functions of govt. spending.
manhunter86 1 week ago
@manhunter86 The internet was a bare-bones project until private capital was raised to make it a creative juggernaut. The Apollo program is one of only 3 gov't successes in history. BUT Scandinavia and Holland are both hurting. They have rising unemployment, rising healthcare costs, an oppressive taxation that is beginning to cause natives to emigrate, and all of Europe is on the brink as we speak. Most all of Europe is trying to replace its socialist system with a free market like the U.S.
svvmichael1 1 week ago
@svvmichael1 The Internet was originally "bare bones" because it was conceived as a network without a fixed base for the military, not something for everyday use by the rest of the world. And Europe wants to keep its Social Democratic system in the face of pressure from the globalization forces of the oligarchies trying to create a race to the bottom. Get it right.
manhunter86 1 week ago
@manhunter86 The internet is where it is today because of the free-market. Much of Europe is now turning against it's Social Welfare state because that is the SOLE REASON Europe is teetering on the brink right now. When 65^ of the greek population is on the public dole, it's gonna collapse. But an ignorant socialist like you is too stupid to learn from history. Friedman has proved the European model to be severely flawed.
svvmichael1 1 week ago
@analucuta I'm on MF's side, that being reality. Like he said, it's only everyone ELSE that's greedy-get it? If you really want to prove your benevolence, sell up, pack up and go help the poor and starving in say, Africa. If not, improve your comprehension skills and get real.
muzzster1970 1 week ago
@analucuta Now that is a powerful argument.
I would be inclined to defend myself, if not for the absence of your intellect and spine, which seems to have denied you the ability to identify any specifics that you disagree with, even label ... greedy.
As for Mr. Friedman "side", I proudly support the side of a man that has likely done more than anyone to help those living in poverty and oppression end their suffering. Not with a Government Check, but though the dignity of financial liberation.
BustyerUniongoon 1 week ago
@BustyerUniongoon Friedman shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence as Klein because she has integrity and credibility, and he doesn't.
Oh yeah, Reason is a libertarian rag, so they're hardly credible. I'd put that up with a 1970s Pravda article on US foreign policy.
manhunter86 1 week ago
@manhunter86 Naomi Klein has been exposed as a liar BY OTHER LEFTISTS. She is completely devoid of ANY integrity, her whole career has been to inflame people in order to enrich herself. She is a charlatan and a devil. One of the most anti-semetic humans ever, possibly worse than Hitler.
svvmichael1 1 week ago
@svvmichael1 LOL, Godwin's Law owns you. Unless that was some really bad snark.
manhunter86 1 week ago
@manhunter86 Nope, godwin is a fool just like you. Klein is a raging anti-semite, like you. She is one of the biggest liars in history. A whole industry has spung up exposing her lies. Bye now fool.
svvmichael1 1 week ago
@svvmichael1 Klein & I aren't anti-Semtic. You are, however, anti-intelligence.
manhunter86 1 week ago
@manhunter86 Klein is anti-semetic. Her trip to Isreal when she blasted Jews there as worse than Hitler saying "Some jews think we get one get-away-with-genocide-free-card" and slammed them for defending themselves against suicide bombers. That is anti-semetic. And your support of her and her EXPOSED lies makes you an anti-semite AND anti-intellectual. Shock Doctrine is a complete lie. She is a scumbag, and anyone who supports her is a scumbag.
svvmichael1 1 week ago
@svvmichael1 There are many Jewish people who don't support every aspect of Israel's policy in regard to the Palenstians. Doesn't make them anti-Semetic. And all my Jewish friends would be surprised to find that I'm anti-Semetic because some blowhard on YouTube doesn't agree with me.
You're so lame. And Klein is still right.
manhunter86 1 week ago
@manhunter86 Well, would your jewish friends like that you support letting Isrealis die? Naomi Klein was wrong on everything in that book. She lied, and everyone knows it. I guess the real shock doctrine is "how much can a liberal lie and still be loved by other mindless liberals?" I guess you are infinitely stupid. That's what liberals do, lie, because no facts support them. Hopefully rectal cancer will cure your ignorance soon.
svvmichael1 1 week ago
@svvmichael1 Well it's no shock that, when confronted with Klein's FACTS, a conservative goes off the rails and throws a tantrum. Everyone can see what a classy debater you are- NOT.
manhunter86 1 week ago
@manhunter86 Hmmm, i've read her book, done the research, and found she lied/mischaracterized EVERY situation she descibed. She is a completely unethical human being who doesn't mind seeing dead Isrealis lining the street. Like you she is an anti-semite.
svvmichael1 1 week ago
@manhunter86 I am ashamed Naomi Klein is Canadian, as she has a tenuous grasp of facts and reality ... as does her husband Avi Lewis. they are people whose ideology clouds their view of concrete reality ... there are plenty of post modern writers far more capable than Naomi Klein
LeGioNoFZioN 1 week ago
Of course he is lying, the "happiest" countries on earth are the Scandinavian Social Democracy's.
What a straw man spewing dissembler.
Kevin1354 1 week ago
@Kevin1354
According to whom? By what standards?
s9z9s 1 week ago
Advocate1234 or WhoEver Posted This Video.
One question: Are you or do you want to be one of the 1-2% of the wealthiest in the U.S?
HealthyPlanet 2 weeks ago
We are long past Milton and his deceptive arguments, Government has been the greatest job creator in history. Consumers/laborers with need create jobs and capital. They are the job creators, not the rich. Labor is superior to capital.
Superorchestra 2 weeks ago
You aren't good enough to make films. You dont understand what you are saying.
Superorchestra 2 weeks ago
And Naomi Klein completely owns Milton Friedman.
No one should be taking Friedman seriously. His own arguments in this clip collapse. No big invention came from the government? When Friedman was talking to Phil Donahue he was probably unaware of the Internet (a government invention), but what about the Apollo space program? The nations of Chilie and Argentina suffered a huge loss of freedom in adopting his economic policies.
Freidman = hack. Klein is spot on.
manhunter86 2 weeks ago
@manhunter86 A feminazi journalist owns an economist? Wishing it true doesn't make it true. Klein is lucky she didn't have to debate the great man live. Her "achievement" in life?-promoting a failed ideology! Really, your hypocrisy is breathtaking. Everything you have-the roof over your head, your food, computer, clothes, gadgets, transport and what not is produced by a system you so despise but couldn't live without. Feel free to move to Nth Korea.
muzzster1970 2 weeks ago
@muzzster1970 Her work takes down Friedman's talking points, and completely shows how his "freedom-loving" economic "theories" are pretty incompatible with ACTUAL freedom. Not to mention that they make living conditions WORSE for about 80-85% of the people.
Neither Klein or I hate capitalism, we hate the failed "free market" Chicago school of crony capitalism. We both have it over you and Friedman in our arguments. Of course, trumping you is quite easy.
manhunter86 2 weeks ago
@manhunter86 Her "work"? She wouldn't know what a day's work was if she fell over it. Don't hate Capitalism? Oh, please, now you're just beclowning yourself. "We are the 99% repressed by the eeeevil rich people"-and the alternative? Socialism? Grow up and get real. Your hero, BO, heavily engages in crony Capitalism, something MF actually hated, so you unwittingly agree with him.
Socialism=Repression+Depression
Libertarianism=Freedom
You are a clueless bint-enjoy the gulags.
muzzster1970 2 weeks ago
@muzzster1970 LOL besides the fact you couldn't argue your way out of a paper bag, you continue to demonstrate you have no idea what you're talking about. It's fun to own you the same way Klein owns Friedman.
manhunter86 2 weeks ago
@manhunter86 I can see how he might have trouble. It's senseless to argue with either you or Klein, who use the free-market and crony-capitalism synonymously. Your argument: here is strawman, watch me tear it down, I owned you...
taylorzr 1 week ago
@taylorzr If you can't understand that unfettered ("free market") capitalism has always led to cronyism and oligarchies, while Social Democracies with stronger regulation have proven more successfull, then yeah, you'd want to pretend otherwise. Cause you're on the wrong side of THAT argument, dude.
manhunter86 1 week ago
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@taylorzr If you can't understand that unfettered ("free market") capitalism has always led to cronyism and oligarchies, while Social Democracies with stronger regulation have proven more successfull, then yeah, you'd want to pretend otherwise. Cause you're on the wrong side of THAT argument, dude.
manhunter86 1 week ago
@manhunter86 If you can't understand that unfettered government has always led to abuse of power, then yeah, just blame the free market for distortions caused by government. Regulations are written to keep competition out of markets. But you're not opposed to cronyism, you just think your team should be in charge, brah...
taylorzr 1 week ago
@taylorzr If you can't understand that under-regulated, and unregulated, capitalism lead to more monopolies, a growing concentration of wealth in fewer hands, and a lower standard of living for 80-90% of the people, then you would make false and asinine statements. And yeah, I think people who understand reality- as opposed to the deluded Chicago school of thought- should be in charge. It's not cronyism, it's sanity.
manhunter86 1 week ago
@manhunter86 I want choice for myself, not power for you or the Chicago school. Though I do enjoy how you make statements assumed true without any explanation, and yet predetermine any of my thoughts as asinine. (This happens, if you disagree, you stupid) If you want to hold old to your naivety, go right ahead. You'll fit in to the american economic landscape beautifully. Just not sure why you bother speaking in the first place. You must love the sound of your own typing?
taylorzr 1 week ago
@taylorzr I'm replying to the dopey statements you keep making, not "predeterming" them. You keep obviously conflating normal and necessary govt. regulation with corruption. There are times when the govt (at least those in part of it) are corrupt and screw things up via state power. Not the same thing as imposing necessary regulation to tame the excesses of free market capitalism that ALWAYS occur when they have a chance to. Man, you're dense.
manhunter86 6 days ago
@manhunter86 We've established you prefer baseless comments, but please do us a favor and explain. 1. Why is regulation necessary. 2. Why do free market excesses ALWAYS occur. What exactly is a free market excess?
taylorzr 6 days ago
@taylorzr Not baseless comments, just stronger arguments than yours.
1. Regulation is necessary as the need of a independent refree is to a game. Otherwise you're apt to have 2 sides arguing over everything and more importantly, abuse from those holding the most capital (see Foxconn in Taepai for where a regulation-free envirnoment can get you). Regulation is also necessary to bring external costs to bear that producers would otherwise avoid.
manhunter86 5 days ago
@taylorzr Example- a factory would likely dump waste into a river or any other body of water without a second thought of the cost to the "commons", as in strict capitalistic terms they're just getting rid of it. Regulation aims that they don't merely pollute the water that we all need. No producer would willfully impose that cost on themselves- "we" need regulation to protect envirnomental areas that aren't naturally engaged in the business process.
manhunter86 5 days ago
@taylorzr 2. From the Glided Age on, unregulated capital tends to wind in fewer and fewer hands. Rather than dominate a market with a "superior" product, they tend to dominate by monopolistic practices and corruption. Reaching monopoly status, the consumer finds higher prices for inferior products and services, with few remedies in the form of competition. But that's just the marketplace.
manhunter86 5 days ago
@taylorzr "Free market excesses" are best understood as capital manipulations, created by and serving those closest to the capital, as opposed to the Average Joe. Like the manuvers by Bain Capital. I don't doubt that Bain did well for their investors and esp. their partners, but that "success" was a short term profit that came at the expense of a lot of Average Joe's jobs. With less regulations the market behaves more like a casino, with 99% of us losing.
manhunter86 5 days ago
@manhunter86 that is true. Totally freedom leads to monopolies and trusts.The actual enemies of free market. There has to be somebody setting the rules and punish the outlaws.
barasko 1 week ago
@barasko Nope, monopolies implode under their own greed if they get too big, so the best policy is to leave them alone.
htiberian 1 week ago
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taylorzr 6 days ago
@manhunter86 "a lower standard of living for 80-90% of the people," Lower standard compared to what, a regulated market, socialism, manhunteropia? A free market encourages efficient use of resources. Those who don't use resources efficiently, directed towards the most immediate need go bankrupt. So, you'll have to explain how this lowers any standard of living.
taylorzr 6 days ago
@taylorzr Chilie, 1973- 90% of the population suffers a drop in living standards after Friedman's policies enacted. In Argentina, in the late 70's, again 90% of the nation suffers a drop in living standards after the "Chicago school" method is introduced. Ditto the UK and USA with Thatcher and Reagan, though not as high in the percentages (and the US had easy credit mask over its drop over the past 30 years).
manhunter86 5 days ago
@manhunter86 EVERYTHING THIS GUY POSTS IS FABRICATED. EVERY STUDY HAS PROVEN EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE. HE IS A FOOL.
svvmichael1 5 days ago
@svvmichael1 Wrong shmuck. I am killing you guys with the facts. I live in reality- you live in MF's Libertarian Delusionland. And studies prove me right and you wrong. Owned.
manhunter86 5 days ago
@manhunter86 FACT: Since 1970, peer-reviewed articles proving supply-side economics is the best model available-1,263, that Keynesianism is the best model available-147. YOU JUST GOT PWNED. You are just an uneducated, lazy, fucktard that can't make money on his own so you justify stealing from your betters. You are a sad,sad, little man.
svvmichael1 5 days ago
@svvmichael1 You can have a bunch of Koch and Scaife funded think tanks try and tell you that, or the credible and independent studies that show Keynesianism has worked when applied in the US and Western Europe. Supply-side in the US made the stock market and corporate profits rise, and was great to the top 10%. Everyone else saw their wages stay flat and lost benefits. Owned.
manhunter86 1 day ago
@taylorzr A "free" market as you define will strip away protections for that bottom 80-90%. So sure, the stock markets and capital bases will see a rise. They will come at the expense of the majority of the population. What you call "inefficency" is known as a living wage for the average person. So your "market" may gain but the average person, up to 90% of them, will lose.
manhunter86 5 days ago
@manhunter86 "A "free" market as you define will strip away protections for that bottom 80-90%"
Disproven time and time again. And who is protecting those 90%? The government? They have done no such thing. Anytihng government does with "good" intentions mostly ends up as a disaster. Unless of course if it is within it's own interest.
tehatemachine 5 days ago
@tehatemachine Wrong again. Labor protections, such as the 8 hour workday, the 40 hour week, disability insurance, unemployment....all these things that absolutely DO protect the bottom 90%- did the free market provide these out of good will, or did they come through the force of law via govt. regulation? Same with envirnomental protections. Your point is easily disproven.
manhunter86 5 days ago
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@manhunter86 "all these things that absolutely DO protect the bottom 90%" You need to read you history the facts are clearly against you in the actual point. There are still many jobs out there that go above 8 hours. Unions did not create the middle class. That is a proven fact, and the push for higher wages didn't come by unions, They came from workers. Wages are set by the market and also notice how many U.S manufacturing jobs are gone.
tehatemachine 5 days ago
@manhunter86
"or did they come through the force of law via govt. regulation? Same with environmental protections. Your point is easily disproven."
You point is in defense of unions, However I am In a union. Did I have a choice when signing into the job to accept them or not? If i said no then I wouldn't be able to have the job which i needed. I pay them a large sum each month for "protection" So farThey have done no such thing. So your point is invalid.
tehatemachine 5 days ago
@tehatemachine No, my point stands. The regulations I speak of were created by union negoiations (and I am a member of one too) but then put into regulations that protected nearly every workplace, irregardless of whether union or not. Like the 8 hour day. That is part of CA state law here, union or non-union. You can only circumvent it by offering BETTER wages than the state minimum.
manhunter86 5 days ago
@manhunter86 Many small businesses though cannot even make the state minimum. It's a funny thing to because when discussing economics we seem to only mention the large ones. But in fact small ones make up a huge chunk of the pie to. I strongly oppose the minimum wage standard. It is the most racist law there is on the books.
tehatemachine 5 days ago
@tehatemachine I'm aware that small businesses do the bulk of the hiring, and that some of them are extremely small and family-run. Nonetheless, $8/hour (the highest minimum wage in the US) at a fulltime job, 40 hours a week all year, keeps someone just barely above the poverty line. The minimum wage is NOT too high:the "free" market has set the value of nominal wages too low.
manhunter86 4 days ago
@manhunter86
would you pay someone the lets say $25 hr that just starts in the same job like you,making the same money (without any skills and experience) that you earn in your job ,with all the skills and experience you gathered over the years ?
Hoschi0913 4 days ago
@Hoschi0913 This situation is not analogus to the concept of a minimum wage. The minimum wage says no matter how unskilled, basic human labor is worth at LEAST this much, even if it is higher than where the free market would place it (as the free market accepts no responsibility for peoples' survival). Your situation is merely making wages equal on a arbitrary basis.
manhunter86 3 days ago
@manhunter86
that might be a arbitrary basis,but the point i make is about "fairness",alot scream for "fair" pay,how much is it? besides,if there wouldnt be the minimum wage,company's would hire more due to less cost and if they dont pay enough,they wouldnt get any employee anyways,the market would regulate itself,as is with the minimum wage,employers wait until they really really have to hire someone before they do so,or just let run some more overtime,which is cheaper than hire 1
Hoschi0913 3 days ago
@manhunter86
sure human labor has a certain value,but they are not all the same,due to skill and experience,but it is up to each and everyone to define that value for themself,gov't can't and schouldn't define that,because one shoe fits all does just not apply
Hoschi0913 3 days ago
@Hoschi0913 I'm not talking about the variation in the value of labor (a doctor is "worth" more than a janitor), I'm talking about the need to impose a floor, which says no matter if the market would place even less value on their labor, every person has to be worth a minimum amount.
manhunter86 1 day ago
@Hoschi0913 First of all, if you accept that basic human survival is paramount, then you reject strict economic dogma of supply and demand in regards to wages. Because the supply of people in many instances insures thier economic value is less than what it costs for them survive UNLESS you institute- against the entirely "free" market-a floor that human labor is worth at least whatever the povery line is. The market will not regulate itself in regards to that.
manhunter86 3 days ago
@Hoschi0913 Second, the "fairness" aspect is that what the "market" values is out of sync with what "society" values. The market values who it sees as "successfull" CEOs simply because of the capital return they think they can provide. They don't value the "average" worker because it sees them as interchangeable. A "fairer" society is stronger than a totally market-based one, as it benefits society more to have greater compensation for the "average" worker at the expense of the CEOs-
manhunter86 3 days ago
@Hoschi0913 - rather than the other way around. The "fairness" part is that from a societial value, it's not "fair" that so few get so much more than everyone else, and 90% keep having to take less to underwrite the cost of the successfull 10%. And that the top never loses- a fired CEO gets a golden parachute, workers at a "successfull" company still have their wages frozen.
manhunter86 3 days ago
@manhunter86
i see it a little different,1. human "capital" or labor is extremly wide spreed,you can have it anytime anywhere to any condition (btw thats the flaw in your statement,you are static),2. to have a "fair" society,you will need someone that decides what fair is,that enforces this fairness and oversees that it doesnt get violated,3. CEO's,yes they make alot of money,but they also spend alot of time away from their families,long hours on work 16+ at times,responsible ......
Hoschi0913 2 days ago
@manhunter86
for new markets to sell the product,new costumers,new product line and alot more,i wouldnt want to do their job and most i know after they get a glimbs of what they are responsible for (and not only see the money) agree with me,4. if you do not have companys and CEO's,who is providing the jobs from which you can earn your living? if you dont make enough to support your expenses (like I-Phone4 etc),cut down on them or educate yourself/learn some more to get a better job..
Hoschi0913 2 days ago
@manhunter86
after all,it is your life and you are the only one who can,will and has to live it,in other words you are responsible for yourself,your decision and your way you go in life,dont like the way thing go for you,see above learn something else or more in the job you are in,if you dont put any effort in anything,how can you expect to have a better life?but yes i agree,society paints a picture of what you have to have and how you should be,up 2 you if it is right for you or not
Hoschi0913 2 days ago
@Hoschi0913 1. Actually it IS static. Capital can up and move anywhere: I can't move to Holland and start working there next week, not without their permission. Human labor is not that flexible. 2. That someone is the govt., which is meant to answer to us. I don't have a problem with them deciding. 3) No violins for the CEOs, please. Lots of people work that hard- CEOs don't deserve 400 times more salarly as the average person. They're not working THAT much harder.
manhunter86 1 day ago
@manhunter86
1.if it really would be that static,we wouldnt have illegals that do farm jobs,they manage to go someplace other than their own country and do it ,how is it that you cant?
2. if you like big gov't thats decide for you,there are countrys that provide that,feel free to move there,dont change our Republic
3.CEO's may not work physicaly hard,but unlike the average person,they have responsibillities,to keep the company running,the people employed,paychecks,taxes,healthcare..
Hoschi0913 1 day ago
@Hoschi0913 1. Catch the part about being "illegal"? As in not allowed to be a citizen or vote? That people are desperate enough to do it illegaly doesn't count. My point stands.
2. Stop obessing over "the Republic". A civilization has wage and safety regulations- period.
3. I wasn't talking strictly in terms of physical labor. Most people work long hours and have responsibilties. CEOs may have more, but not 400 times more. Get real here.
manhunter86 1 day ago
@manhunter86 In one dimension. However, If you eliminated the minimum wage standard. People would be hired far more quickly and have more opportunity to get into the field and quickly move up. It is a TERRIBLE law that only sounds good on paper (and of course we all like a little bit extra cash in our pockets)
tehatemachine 3 days ago
@tehatemachine Not to mention the ability for employers to hire people at a low wage to train them for more of a full time position. It's very expensive to train new employees when they have to make a min. wage, so employer have to rely on the HS and higher education system to do it.
Also, labor is like any other commodity, the more it costs the less people will spend on it.
hokieneer17 3 days ago
@hokieneer17 finally someone who GETS IT.
tehatemachine 3 days ago
@tehatemachine Again, this is all wrong. Because while the value of a good like widgets may rise and fall, people are decidedly different in that we have a humanistic interest in keeping them, um, alive. A warehouse of widgets can sit there until their value in the market rises:people can't just sit there waiting for their value to rise. In order to survive, they have to have a floor to their value.
manhunter86 3 days ago
@manhunter86 please watch this watch?v=ca8Z__o52sk
tehatemachine 3 days ago
@tehatemachine Wrong again. Labor costs aren't so fungible that they can drop down to nothing (i.e. below the poverty line) just because the supply allows it so. You want to run an enterprise, you can't pollute or pay people pennies just because it's more profitable. I see corporations with enough profit to pay people a living wage. Get with the program.
manhunter86 1 day ago
@manhunter86 You are preventing the young and minorities from obtaining skills in certain fields , It keeps alot of people out while providing protection for many of us already in the union. And there are alot of lazy workers especially where i work at that aren't being fired because of it. If there where no minimum wage law you'd see more people working everywhere and moving up or onto higher paying fields with skills they've already learned, There would be far more to go around.
tehatemachine 5 days ago
@manhunter86 Unions are on their last legs because they are useless. Unions paired with leftist taxes/regulations are the reason most union manufacturing jobs are now located in china, mexico, korea, etc. You idiots are too stupid to realize the leftists are your enemy and your union leaders are your enemy. Idiots.
svvmichael1 5 days ago
@svvmichael1 Unions are the last strand democratizing the economy. Economic liberalization and the financialization of the economy are responsible for the offshoring. The only reason Korea has a strong economy is that did not do these neoliberal adjustments. Also, Adam Smith argues that a preference for the use of domestic industry over foreign industry to gain individual profit constitutes an "invisible" and benevolent hand, far from what Freidman's fools understand.
konnichiwa53 4 days ago
@konnichiwa53 Your are completely wrong. Unions overprice labor ($/hr, benefits,etc), regulations increase both fixed and variable costs, taxes reduce net income. You need to learn accounting, finance, and economics. Then come back and you'll understand why you are wrong. Unions are force and socialism, not democracy. If every UAW guy at Ford must make the same, why would any of them become more skilled, and if they do they can't ask for a raise....
svvmichael1 4 days ago
@svvmichael1 I am an agricultural analyst, thanks for the advice but I know the neoliberal Chicago boy playbook and her faults. Business is most efficient under worker control, every country following Friedman's path has been left shambles. Name a country most are turning back to Socialism, no it is not a dirty word. Neoliberal deregulation and financialization are violent elite making poverty drivers, look at the USA or Argentina. Sane economics are returning this dead man is done
konnichiwa53 3 days ago
@konnichiwa53 You are obviously ignorant of business, accounting, finance, economics, and history. ALL socialist countries have failed. No true free-market countries have ever failed. Workers don't know how to run a company, that is why they are workers, if they knew how they'd start a company. If you'd like an education I can help you get one. Going through life ignorant is not going to be fun for you.
svvmichael1 3 days ago
@svvmichael1 I disagree. Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Finland, have not fallen, I believe you are referring to communist countries, or countries the United states posed military coups in. You seek ad hominem attacks over actual engagement and that shows through with most right wingers. Argentina was driven to the ground by neoliberalism and factory takeover by workers has brought back their standard of living. We need the same in the rust belt, besides US capitalism is state subsidized
konnichiwa53 2 days ago
@konnichiwa53 You are wrong. Those countries are not very solid, and their lifestyle is nowhere near most american's high-quality. I have crushed your very infantile claims with solid points backed with fact. Argentina was a dictatorship (as was Chile) and therefore not a true free-market. Your claims there are invalid. And it is Carville and the left that is all about attacking. You need an education boy.
svvmichael1 2 days ago
@svvmichael1 Good lord you are really into the ad hominem attack and provided no points or facts. Argentina and Chile were American created dictatorships, Freidman mused on them as "miracles". There exists no free market in USA, all the tech firms were founded through government research and grants, same for military, pharmaceuticals and heavy industry. Then they receive the insurance policy of too big to fail. The USA has atrocious health care and poor education and horrid poverty
konnichiwa53 2 days ago
@konnichiwa53 It is you who stardted the ad hominem attacks. I think you like to add hominems to your ad hominem attacks. WRONG, they created themselves with some minor tinkering. Pinochet got power because the socialist Allende created 200% inflation...WOW there is a solid economy. Allende murdered many opponents as well. Those are countries that just suck. Little freedom, so not a free-market. Friedman hoped their economic gains (and they did improve over their previous regimes..
svvmichael1 2 days ago
@svvmichael1 Lost all cred? and racist too!incredible, thanks for your incisive wit, can we throw a FAIL in there too? The only reason they are the "rich of the world" (which is a joke right?) is because of social security and other measures meant to prevent total collapse. The United States has a higher infant mortality rate than Cuba and more like Estonia and Hungary, people lack preventative care and the system's private nature costs the country billions, so take your Freidman ha
konnichiwa53 1 day ago
@konnichiwa53 I cant stand racists. I don't care if people's IQs are 10; I still don't like people that live life wearing those kind of glasses.
EarlRegent 1 day ago
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@EarlRegent You said comfortably higher. WRONG, they are essentially THE SAME. Leanr statistics and standard deviation you idiot. US poor are the best off poor in the world. you can't dispute that. I crushed all your lies. bye now fool. And there is NO respected studies to refute the IQ standards. FAIL
svvmichael1 1 day ago
@konnichiwa53 We have a higher infant mortality because that is the only healthcare Cuba has. Our black and Latin populationare the reason for the lower average. look at white infant mortality in the u.s., it is about as low as it can get fool.
svvmichael1 1 day ago
@konnichiwa53 ...would translate into greater overall freedom). Once Those dictators had power though, they refused to relinquish...just another leftist dictator. The USA has the best healthcare in the world you moron. You EPIC FAIL...LOLOLOLOL You have lost all credibility you idiot Jap mutha fucka. LOLOL you are dumb. And our education (minus the underacheiving black schools) are actually top 5 in the world, and our universities are the best. BTW, our poor are rich vs the world.
svvmichael1 2 days ago
@svvmichael1 Are you like 12 years old? Are you aware that the Japanese IQ is comfortably higher than the American IQ (minus the black schools)? Ignorance breeds ignorance. As far as your idea of the American poor; you are wrong again, wealth is calculated on GDP and per capita income and the US is not at the top at all. There are countries where the poor are better off than the American poor. Ignorance is bliss! Wow!
EarlRegent 2 days ago
@EarlRegent WRONG on all points. What are you 4 yearsold? 1) IQ by race, black 85, latin 89, white 105, asian 107, jew 109. HMMMMMM looks like you FAIL. 2) The american poor are wealthy vs most of the world's populations. FAIL. 3) Someone making $10k in US is sorta poor, put them in bangladesh he is wealthy.
svvmichael1 2 days ago
@svvmichael1 Wtf? Are you on drugs? First of all your own racial separation of IQ results say exactly what I said about Japanese people having higher IQ'S. So what are you talking about you complete idiot? Secondly, yes there are countries with higher per capita income than the US with a better off poor population. You just confirmed this by saying the US's poor is better off than most of the world, not all. LOL! You just agreed with everything I said you moron,
EarlRegent 2 days ago
@EarlRegent You said comfortably higher. WRONG, they are essentially THE SAME. Leanr statistics and standard deviation you idiot. US poor are the best off poor in the world. you can't dispute that. I crushed all your lies. bye now fool.
svvmichael1 1 day ago
@EarlRegent You said comfortably higher. WRONG, they are essentially THE SAME. Leanr statistics and standard deviation you idiot. US poor are the best off poor in the world. you can't dispute that. I crushed all your lies. bye now fool. And there is NO respected studies to refute the IQ standards. FAIL.
svvmichael1 1 day ago
@svvmichael1 and your racist views on IQ are very questionable. There re volumes of works debunking that nonsense Bell Curve inspired bigoted rubbish.
EarlRegent 2 days ago
@EarlRegent So it is not only me being hounded by this pseudo-libertarian crackpot. Best to just avoid conversing with this one, he has even made a blog to spew this Randian nonsense.
konnichiwa53 1 day ago
@konnichiwa53 I noticed he called you a 'Jap' and is one of those simpletons that think they understand everything about economics and race but in actual fact are as poorly informed as those that came before them.
EarlRegent 1 day ago
@EarlRegent You are an 18 yr old fool without a bit of intelligence. Go to another board where your ignorant ramblings won't get crushed, like here.
svvmichael1 1 day ago
@svvmichael1 It's obvious you are unable to comprehend that you made a fool of yourself my agreeing with your opponent. Now you talk of people being crushed? Lol! You are a worshipper of your own flesh; a narcissist. You are also displaying slight sociopathic tendencies. What an asinine conversation considering you stupidly accepted I am right, so what else is there to say you idiot.
EarlRegent 1 day ago
@EarlRegent I did not agree with you on ANY points. I crushed you. You are too stupid to understand that because of your 3rd grade education. In IQ scores 104 qand 106 are nearly identical, not "comfortably higher". Since you do not understand standard deviation, you can learn it in 5th grade math.
svvmichael1 1 day ago
@svvmichael1 You bore me. Perhaps it's best you go to your counterfeit Nazi meeting
EarlRegent 1 day ago
@svvmichael1 You bore me. Perhaps it's best you go to your counterfeit Nazi meeting or whatever it is narcissists do. Your keyboard warrior activities/crusades are a waste of time. You will not convince people to believe in your filth. The IQ results for some groups have not even reached their potential yet as documented. I believe they rise every few decades for blacks, for example, whilst Caucasian result shave remained the same. There are also other studies that look at European DNA in blacks
EarlRegent 1 day ago
@svvmichael1 and how that correlates to intelligence and the results where trivial. There are also very notable challenges to those racist and racist funded studies that can fill a book. You are not interested in the data; you are merely grabbing the works of a few race based scientists and running with it. Even your language and manner displays no interest in any information. You can not make something true because you want it to be so badly. Consult a psychologists.
EarlRegent 1 day ago
@EarlRegent You are really a sick fuck. Does your race-hatred of blacks extend that far? Why don't you get some psychological help instead of spewing your feces across the internet. The studies I referrences are irrefutable, and your response "there may be studies that might contradict, i think..." You are an ignorant leftist that is too stupid to understand that Keynesianism, socialism, communism have always failed, while supply-side succeeds fabulously. The data backs it up. bye.
svvmichael1 1 day ago
@svvmichael1 'irrefutable"? Hahahaha! Non peer reviewed crap papers sponsored by well known racist groups. 'irrefutable'? You are truly an ignorant piece of shit aren't you? I don't even know why a moron like you thinks that Milton Friedman is a racistl? He is certainly not and it's filth like you that contaminate conservatism.Yes conservatism. I am fully on the right and I came to listen to Friedman not some racist asshole that associates everything with the right to be racist.You are misguided
EarlRegent 1 day ago
@svvmichael1 No data backs anything up; I will repeat, you are not interested in any data you got what you wanted from fellow racist persons. If you are interested in the truth you would have asked for the studies I mentioned and a full refutation of the racist studies for you to review. That's how it works in the real world child. One has to consider all the evidence not just what one wants. *face palm*.
EarlRegent 1 day ago
@svvmichael1 You do realize leaving comments, such as the ones you did on my channel can be considered unlawful to say the least right? Maybe even liable.
EarlRegent 1 day ago
@EarlRegent 1) It is lawful to leave those comments. 2) It is not liable. You, however, are an idiot. Even idiots know the burden online is extemely high on you. Plus, what I posted is true.
svvmichael1 1 day ago
@svvmichael1 Please, explain how what you posted is true considering you don't even have the intellect to comprehend that Earl is a title(not a name) lol! Go on, provide the evidence.
EarlRegent 1 day ago