The Virtual University: Marcus Aurelius Part 3

[acmedressform]

Marcus Aurelius was an honest politician because he didn't need to get elected.

[muchdeep89]

"We shall not see his like again".

True and untrue.

[TheDuckmonk]

There were many Popes in western history that could be compared to M. Aurelius. Other than that this guy is right, and I would still say that Marcus Aurelius was the greatest man to ever live. Hope we still have some of his DNA lyin around somewhere....

[1Zenspace]

@TheDuckmonk Marcus Aurelius's DNA gave the Roman's his son Commodus, the worst emperor (or amoung the worst at least). So I think it was not DNA that made him great, it was his choices.

[TheDuckmonk]

Unfortunately all great male DNA must at some point be combined with a woman's in order to procreate. Disaster.

On a serious note MA prolly didn't make much of a dad.

[1Zenspace]

@TheDuckmonk I agree Marcus was probably a bad father. the man had 13 children dieon him. 13! I imagine after so many children died, hewould stop getting as connected to them. Commodus was the only male to live, so I can imagine his father was very distant in un-affectionate. of course this is all spculation, after 1800 yrs we can't say much for certain about Marcus Aurelius.

my guess: Commodus made himself deliberately the opposite of his father. A sort of revenge for never getting love..

[Songsmirth]

If I'm understanding this correctly, MA believed we were born bad. I don't agree with that. I think when we learn morals and we try to keep beating back the bad, then we are moral. Not perfect but moral. When we make mistakes and we try to not make them again, it doesn't mean we won't it just means we keep trying. Does making mistakes make us bad? I guess it depends on the mistakes and weither we make a habit of doing the same ones over and over. I think virtouly trying is the key.

[NorthForkFisherman]

@Songsmirth Not so much born bad, but born to be selfish and childish. A child who remains a child is to be pitied, a child who become a grown man or woman and who willing accepts the weight of their new station is to be lauded. In short, he's telling the world and it's people to get a set and grow up.

[zcaramouche]

Having read some of the base and ignoble comments here just proves what Marcus Aurelius alluded to...I strongly recommend reading a biography on Marcus Aurelius...

"Because your own strengh is unequal to the task, do not assume that it is beyond the powers of man. But if anything is within the powers and province of man, believe that it is within your own compass as well."

[zcaramouche]

Excellent lecture ! It's a pleasure to listen to it in regular intervals.

Thank you so much.

[himynameisduh]

wow i just saw this recommended by another friend on a friends fb page and this is so interesting. I don't want to sound pretentious or whatever but I found it interesting that I started to realize in the past few years that people are people and I can't judge or be angry by what someone does. it's out of my power and all I need to do is do what I feel is the right thing to do. I think its interesting that we all live a certain way but might not realize it was hypothesized 2thousand years ago

[southsydney]

"they get born, all kinds of stuff happens to them and they DIE". his delivery was perfect lol

[RationalPrejudice]

The other problem with such a philosophy is the "I can't control it, so I won't be attached to it". This is in many circumstances a scapegoat mentality, where we can enter into a personal mental trap of our own need to avoid pain, when the pain itself is a NECESSARY REQUIREMENT to instill virtuous intolerance to malicious ideas and philosophies.

[davecom3]

@RationalPrejudice you've inadvertantly contradicted your own point. If you can't control it how can you change it? The Stoic school of thought on this matter extends to reputation and the general populace's base and selfish nature. The point is people will always speak ill of you, but as long as you remain virtuous, that won't matter. The virtuous man is the polar opposite of the scapegoat.

[RationalPrejudice]

Though we die, tolerance in many respects is not virtuous. Ideas that have been written down and persevered over time can change the world, and when those ideas encompass evil and discord, tolerance of such is NOT a virtue.

[lajungesombre]

I like the lecture but I didn't like it when he alludes to Marcus Aurelius as perfect at arund 5:20.

That type of vision of a person might lead to worship and an uncritical eye

[alexjager7]

nit picking isn't very virtuous

[K00kamonga]

Everybody thinking honestly:

Who each one think are most likely to be with power [a kind of one person's power that no longer exist in our time]; Caligula, Gengis Khan, Napoleon or Marcus Aurelius?

[terrafirmaterrafirma]

I like the presentation, although I have issues with it. The individual makes many irrational statements, Like: Marcus Aurelius is the most virtuous man in the world. Does he know this for a fact? What is he talking about?

[Gringoman911]

Even Marcus Aurelius admits he is a evil doer

[LithikRob]

Well, we have the Meditations as a reference point, as well as a lot of contemporary evidence as to how he lived his life. His stoicism and philosophy are incredible considering his power. How is it irrational?

[terrafirmaterrafirma]

Let me give you an example. When you call someone the noisiest person in the world, you better make sure that your statement is true. Otherwise you are lying. The presentation given is loaded with irrational assertions that are not verifiable. This is what I was referring to. Presumably, a philosopher should be observant of the science of logical communication if he is to be taken seriously.

[LithikRob]

Well, yeah, of course a lecturer is going to make some assertions based on implicit proof rather than explicit proof, but does that invalidate the assertions?

(I assume you're talking about the assertion that he was perhaps the loneliest person in the world, etc etc. In which case, even so, you're completely missing the point because the purpose of these statements is to illustrate the character for those unfamiliar with him and provide a context.)

I don't think I quite grasp your position.

[terrafirmaterrafirma]

Claiming someone is "the loneliest person in the world" can never be validated. Thus it is in an invalid assertion. It is more prudent to say "so and so felt extremely lonely", or "people thought him very lonely". Qualifying the statement with "perhaps" makes it also acceptable, but the man who presented the lecture made rather absurd statements purely for effect when he could have made correct assertions and maintained a high level of credibility. Bad communication is, well, bad communication.

[Roelandvinken]

that shit doesn't matter

focus on what matters, grab what you can learn from and move on.

[joshxxi]

"When you call someone the noisiest person in the world, you better make sure that your statement is true. Otherwise you are lying."

You're a fucking retard

[benjis007]

I think he's just like a first year philosophy student or something...

[Catz007]

good answer - probably is - who else would be so picky - or someone who hasn't grasp philosophy as well as rhetoric.

[terrafirmaterrafirma]

Ummm, lets see. Maybe someone trained rigorously in the craft of logic, and pure mathematics.

While I do respect the work of some philosophers like Heidegger, I find the reasoning style of many of today's academic pseudo-philosophers horrific.

Yes, there are people out there who still think and speak clearly and logically even when making assertions about metaphysics.

Again! It is imperative that people learn to think and speak before embracing philosophy! Sorry--no royal path to Gmtry!

[Catz007]

Reason is slave to the Passions.

Your narrow-mindedness and your inability to understand and feel the fluidity of language is your fault - not theirs.

Philosophy is not necessarily a priori logic - it may also be about 'synthesis' and the dialectic of emotions.

Your humility knows no bounds! What a shame -

Here, instead of 'knowing that you don't know', you are the exact opposite - you think you do - which means you don't. Therein lies the delusion.

[terrafirmaterrafirma]

Well, I have a word for you. It is called stupid. Notice that I didn't have to call you the stupidest person in the world to get my statement across. Tis enough to call you stupid, and I mean it.

Calling you the "stupidest person in the world" would raise questions as to the validity of my assertion. It would've however introduced an emotional tone that I dont need.

[terrafirmaterrafirma]

No my dear, in the annals or reasoning you, yes *YOU*, are the retard. Go do a little bit of logic, or stop deluding yourself into thinking you are qualified to even speak. There is alot of fun out there for the ordinary person to be had. Join the masses.

[Catz007]

No, they, yes *THEY* are not the retards - language is a flexible instrument - your pretentious condescending tone is a sign of an inferiority complex which seeks attention or acceptance. Insulting words such as 'retard', 'deluded' or sarcastic phrases such as 'join the masses' are all signs that point to one truth: the speaker is insecure - now that's logic!

[zz44aa]

What a pedantic jerkoff.

[benjis007]

what about a recognition of what it is to be human...what about knowing your audience? This presenter may be taking logical liberties for the sake of an interesting tale. Yes, "interesting" is subjective, but people won't sit and listen to a robot give a list of facts...get my point?

[terrafirmaterrafirma]

Sorry, such liberties do not belong in the classroom, nor in the mouth of someone claiming to be a philosopher. You can be eloquent and speak clearly. Exaggerating for the sake of effect is what I call poor communication skills. Period.

[joshxxi]

I really hope you die a lonely lonely death

[Catz007]

you obviously haven't read Plato or St Augustine or Nietzsche to be saying this.

[zz44aa]

When someone says "Thanks a million" is this nonsensical because, after all, he's only thanking you once? Or are you just a pedantic positivistic twit?

In Romeo and Juliet, Romeo says "Juliet is the sun." Since Juliet is not really a collection of gases undergoing fusion reactions 93 million miles from Romeo, does it follow that Shakespeare had "poor communications skills" or does it follow that you are a literal minded wackoff?

Who elected you to decide what belongs in the classroom?

[errunus]

absolute power BORES absolutely. The ancient greeks knew this before socrates told men to restrain their desires. in homer's contest by nietzsche, he argues that what built the great greek civilization is their love of challenge and competition. That a muscle grows stronger by working and challenging it. a man also grows stronger through challenge.