I love most of Hemingway's short stories, "The Old Man and the Sea" and "For Whom the Bell Tolls." Just began reading "Death in the Afternoon," which seems already to be a significant work. At his best, this man was a GREAT writer. But "A Moveable Feast," which I read last year, was disappointing. Seemed as though for every lovely and lyrical passage (mainly about his family and apprenticeship), he had to include an ugly one, like those re. Stein, Ford and Fitzgerald.
@stevevandien Ugliness is part of life and I don't think he wanted to present digitally enhanced view of it, to use a modern metaphor, but a clear picture. You should read "The Sun Also Rises"; that one's really good.
@darthvadorthestrong I had written a long response to your comments and then I realized that responding further to thoughtless insults wouldn't be worth the digital ink.
@stevevandien my insults weren't thoughtless, I thought long and hard about how a man who reads Hemingway and uses the word ugly to describe the passages about scott and ford and stein. Ugly? bahahahaha, if you can't stomach it doll maybe you should stay away from his writing all together...go back and read the Chapter Birth of New School...you remind me of the gent who comes and interrupts Hem while he's writing....stay away from this cafe steve
@darthvadorthestrong OK, let's forget "ugly" and use "nasty" instead. NEEDLESSLY nasty. Why should Hemingway beat up on three dead people who had helped him enormously? That's the point I was trying to make. Hemingway was a great artist AND he could be kind, thoughtful and helpful towards others. Then again, he could be a true SOB, as he is in these chapters. Continued in the next post -
"Can't stomach it?" That's funny. When you've had radical cancer surgery and four subsequent rounds of chemotherapy, then fought through subsequent nausea and anemia to retain a demanding job. not to mention your life, as I have -- then we'll talk about what I, or you, can "stomach." Look, young fella, I'm sure there's warmth and decency in you, behind that petit-Papa facade. Rather than beat on me or anyone else, why not display the better angels of your nature?
@stevevandien steve look Im sorry for your trouble I sincerely am, but thats not what we are talking about and is not helping your argument. Cancer impacts all of us even if we don't have it someone close to us does or has had it and died. We all have our problems so don't think by telling me yours youre gonna change my mind. Petit papa facade is not the case here I am far from being as confident and whatever else Hemingway was...but its because of him...continued next post
@darthvadorthestrong Not trying to change your mind. Just trying to suggest that having endured some tough shit in LIFE, I am no "doll" who can't take tough WRITING, for God's sake. Fair enough?
@stevevandien that I have come to understand certain things about life and how best to go about getting the most out of it. I used to be a sweet guy when I was younger (im 27 hardly a young fella but I guess you have seen more days than I and I respect that and am open to your opinions as i am enjoying our back and forth) but things along the way have made me realized that life isn't all wine and roses and now I don't mind speaking my mind on things that I believe in.
OK (and trust me, you're still young and will remember 27 as part of your youth when you're nearly 51). Every cancer survivor knows damn well that life isn't all wine and roses, so we're on the same page. AND am NOT saying don't speak your mind; the world would be pretty damn boring if nobody did:). Just trying to encourage a little more civility in this discussion (and am sorry to have insulted you), because then we can learn from each other's opinions -- continued next post --
@stevevandien steve you seem like a good man and in no way have you insulted me you have been civil and true to your first comment that I disagreed with...but lets dog all that bull and actually get something out that means something....I stay true to my opinion that hemingway only glorified Scott and G. S. He did infact brutally "cut" Ford and Ford might have deserved it and he may have not, but thats how Hemingway felt at the time. Personally I would have been the same way toward Ford.
@stevevandien the man was cruel to waiters and I have no tolerance for that....Hemingway portrayed him as he was I believe and you know what you can't be friends or like everyone so why try.
@stevevandien so basically you think he was being harsh on them when in fact they had been great friends at one point....at least with stein and scott, and I don't think you took into account that he wrote this in the early 60's. He was like an old wounded dog then and his only kindness was to the craft which is his some of his best. Now I don't think he was mean to Scott so lets turn this around and actually get to the facts...im sorry we haven't sooner. Man im sick of running out of characters
@darthvadorthestrong Close, but not quite. My point is, look, these people HELPED Hemingway establish his career. Stein helped him develop his style (how MUCH she helped him is debatable, but she certainly DID help Hemingway). Fitzgerald sang EH's praises to Max Perkins, who became Hemingway's editor. More than once, Ford relied on EH to edit the transatlantic review and praised him for doing so. Indeed, one could argue that without such help, EH wouldn't have had a career -- more anon -
@stevevandien So how did EH repay them? By telling nasty stories about them in "A Moveable Feast." But you make a terrific point about EH being "like an old wounded dog" while writing "AMF." Sad, but true. I didn't take EH's mental and emotional deterioration into account when ripping him for "AMF." I must concede the point. More tomorrow -- rest well, bro:) --
@stevevandien Hemingway helped Stein more than she helped him because all she wanted was to be published and thought ford at the trans atlantic he did just that. Ford was himself an old wounded dog who was probably more willing to bite than bark, but never the less he did help Hem, but that doesn't mean he had to like him. Scott and Perkins is very interesting, I'm reading Scotts letters and many of them are to Perkins. I don't know how Hem met Perkins but if you say it was through Scott than...
@stevevandien very well. Hem writes nothing that is hurtful to fitz and if anything he speaks highly and with great affection for the man. Now as for Hem not having a career without these people is nonsense...the man would have kept at it because he was a man of conviction and he valued (keyword) writing. It gave him purpose you see? No day was wasted that was spent writing and I think thats how he was able to live...without anything to live for whats the reason. I have books and music...
@stevevandien and places and people that I love and they keep life worth living. I can only assume that you have such things in your life or you would have given up long ago. There is peppered through out his writing his belief on how to live and how to get the most out of it by how you value things...and I think he was as close as any man has ever come to understanding how one can get the most out of living.
@darthvadorthestrong Sorry, bro, am overwhelmed while fighting what apparently is the flu -- I will reread AMF and Hem bios and then get back to you re. the points we've disputed -- but DAMN! We both love Hemingway, and once we dropped personal attacks (my apologies again), we had a hell of a discussion abut him, didn't we? I mean, damn, the cat could flat-out WRITE! Have been rereading EH's short stories, esp. "The Undefeated," "Big Two-Hearted River," etc. -- more anon --
@stevevandien plus "The Snows of Kilimanjaro," "Short (etc.) Life of Francis MacComber," "Up in Michigan," "A Clean, Well-lighted Place," "Soldiers Home," "My Old Man" -- not to mention "For Whom the Bell Tolls," which for me is EH's best full-length novel:) -- BEST ALWAYS, Steve
Respond to this video...he wasn't mean to scott at all, in fact the first paragraph of the chapter scott fitz is the most amazing description of any writer that I have ever read. ok im lost here and am not focused on a point and that bothers me so I'm gonna stop and wait for a reply...
Comment removed
stevevandien 1 year ago
I love most of Hemingway's short stories, "The Old Man and the Sea" and "For Whom the Bell Tolls." Just began reading "Death in the Afternoon," which seems already to be a significant work. At his best, this man was a GREAT writer. But "A Moveable Feast," which I read last year, was disappointing. Seemed as though for every lovely and lyrical passage (mainly about his family and apprenticeship), he had to include an ugly one, like those re. Stein, Ford and Fitzgerald.
stevevandien 1 year ago
@stevevandien Ugliness is part of life and I don't think he wanted to present digitally enhanced view of it, to use a modern metaphor, but a clear picture. You should read "The Sun Also Rises"; that one's really good.
jerryhello100 1 year ago
@stevevandien i had written a long response to your comments and then I realized that you know nothing, and aren't worth the digital ink.
darthvadorthestrong 1 year ago
@darthvadorthestrong Thank you for being so polite and thoughtful.
stevevandien 1 year ago
@stevevandien thank you for being so fragile wouldn't want to include an ugly passage...good god man grow a pair.
darthvadorthestrong 1 year ago
@darthvadorthestrong I had written a long response to your comments and then I realized that responding further to thoughtless insults wouldn't be worth the digital ink.
stevevandien 1 year ago
@stevevandien my insults weren't thoughtless, I thought long and hard about how a man who reads Hemingway and uses the word ugly to describe the passages about scott and ford and stein. Ugly? bahahahaha, if you can't stomach it doll maybe you should stay away from his writing all together...go back and read the Chapter Birth of New School...you remind me of the gent who comes and interrupts Hem while he's writing....stay away from this cafe steve
darthvadorthestrong 1 year ago
@darthvadorthestrong OK, let's forget "ugly" and use "nasty" instead. NEEDLESSLY nasty. Why should Hemingway beat up on three dead people who had helped him enormously? That's the point I was trying to make. Hemingway was a great artist AND he could be kind, thoughtful and helpful towards others. Then again, he could be a true SOB, as he is in these chapters. Continued in the next post -
stevevandien 1 year ago
"Can't stomach it?" That's funny. When you've had radical cancer surgery and four subsequent rounds of chemotherapy, then fought through subsequent nausea and anemia to retain a demanding job. not to mention your life, as I have -- then we'll talk about what I, or you, can "stomach." Look, young fella, I'm sure there's warmth and decency in you, behind that petit-Papa facade. Rather than beat on me or anyone else, why not display the better angels of your nature?
stevevandien 1 year ago
@stevevandien steve look Im sorry for your trouble I sincerely am, but thats not what we are talking about and is not helping your argument. Cancer impacts all of us even if we don't have it someone close to us does or has had it and died. We all have our problems so don't think by telling me yours youre gonna change my mind. Petit papa facade is not the case here I am far from being as confident and whatever else Hemingway was...but its because of him...continued next post
darthvadorthestrong 1 year ago
@darthvadorthestrong Not trying to change your mind. Just trying to suggest that having endured some tough shit in LIFE, I am no "doll" who can't take tough WRITING, for God's sake. Fair enough?
stevevandien 1 year ago
@stevevandien that I have come to understand certain things about life and how best to go about getting the most out of it. I used to be a sweet guy when I was younger (im 27 hardly a young fella but I guess you have seen more days than I and I respect that and am open to your opinions as i am enjoying our back and forth) but things along the way have made me realized that life isn't all wine and roses and now I don't mind speaking my mind on things that I believe in.
darthvadorthestrong 1 year ago
OK (and trust me, you're still young and will remember 27 as part of your youth when you're nearly 51). Every cancer survivor knows damn well that life isn't all wine and roses, so we're on the same page. AND am NOT saying don't speak your mind; the world would be pretty damn boring if nobody did:). Just trying to encourage a little more civility in this discussion (and am sorry to have insulted you), because then we can learn from each other's opinions -- continued next post --
stevevandien 1 year ago
@stevevandien rather than dismiss them out of hand. I apologize again for insulting you, and wish you all the best -- Steve
stevevandien 1 year ago
@stevevandien steve you seem like a good man and in no way have you insulted me you have been civil and true to your first comment that I disagreed with...but lets dog all that bull and actually get something out that means something....I stay true to my opinion that hemingway only glorified Scott and G. S. He did infact brutally "cut" Ford and Ford might have deserved it and he may have not, but thats how Hemingway felt at the time. Personally I would have been the same way toward Ford.
darthvadorthestrong 1 year ago
@stevevandien the man was cruel to waiters and I have no tolerance for that....Hemingway portrayed him as he was I believe and you know what you can't be friends or like everyone so why try.
darthvadorthestrong 1 year ago
Respond to this video...also when we are done lets delete all this garbage but lets let this back and forth run its course
darthvadorthestrong 1 year ago
@stevevandien so basically you think he was being harsh on them when in fact they had been great friends at one point....at least with stein and scott, and I don't think you took into account that he wrote this in the early 60's. He was like an old wounded dog then and his only kindness was to the craft which is his some of his best. Now I don't think he was mean to Scott so lets turn this around and actually get to the facts...im sorry we haven't sooner. Man im sick of running out of characters
darthvadorthestrong 1 year ago
@darthvadorthestrong Close, but not quite. My point is, look, these people HELPED Hemingway establish his career. Stein helped him develop his style (how MUCH she helped him is debatable, but she certainly DID help Hemingway). Fitzgerald sang EH's praises to Max Perkins, who became Hemingway's editor. More than once, Ford relied on EH to edit the transatlantic review and praised him for doing so. Indeed, one could argue that without such help, EH wouldn't have had a career -- more anon -
stevevandien 1 year ago
@stevevandien So how did EH repay them? By telling nasty stories about them in "A Moveable Feast." But you make a terrific point about EH being "like an old wounded dog" while writing "AMF." Sad, but true. I didn't take EH's mental and emotional deterioration into account when ripping him for "AMF." I must concede the point. More tomorrow -- rest well, bro:) --
stevevandien 1 year ago
@stevevandien Hemingway helped Stein more than she helped him because all she wanted was to be published and thought ford at the trans atlantic he did just that. Ford was himself an old wounded dog who was probably more willing to bite than bark, but never the less he did help Hem, but that doesn't mean he had to like him. Scott and Perkins is very interesting, I'm reading Scotts letters and many of them are to Perkins. I don't know how Hem met Perkins but if you say it was through Scott than...
darthvadorthestrong 1 year ago
@stevevandien very well. Hem writes nothing that is hurtful to fitz and if anything he speaks highly and with great affection for the man. Now as for Hem not having a career without these people is nonsense...the man would have kept at it because he was a man of conviction and he valued (keyword) writing. It gave him purpose you see? No day was wasted that was spent writing and I think thats how he was able to live...without anything to live for whats the reason. I have books and music...
darthvadorthestrong 1 year ago
@stevevandien and places and people that I love and they keep life worth living. I can only assume that you have such things in your life or you would have given up long ago. There is peppered through out his writing his belief on how to live and how to get the most out of it by how you value things...and I think he was as close as any man has ever come to understanding how one can get the most out of living.
darthvadorthestrong 1 year ago
@darthvadorthestrong Sorry, bro, am overwhelmed while fighting what apparently is the flu -- I will reread AMF and Hem bios and then get back to you re. the points we've disputed -- but DAMN! We both love Hemingway, and once we dropped personal attacks (my apologies again), we had a hell of a discussion abut him, didn't we? I mean, damn, the cat could flat-out WRITE! Have been rereading EH's short stories, esp. "The Undefeated," "Big Two-Hearted River," etc. -- more anon --
stevevandien 1 year ago
@stevevandien plus "The Snows of Kilimanjaro," "Short (etc.) Life of Francis MacComber," "Up in Michigan," "A Clean, Well-lighted Place," "Soldiers Home," "My Old Man" -- not to mention "For Whom the Bell Tolls," which for me is EH's best full-length novel:) -- BEST ALWAYS, Steve
stevevandien 1 year ago
Respond to this video...he wasn't mean to scott at all, in fact the first paragraph of the chapter scott fitz is the most amazing description of any writer that I have ever read. ok im lost here and am not focused on a point and that bothers me so I'm gonna stop and wait for a reply...
darthvadorthestrong 1 year ago
at his worst he was a great writer, at his best...he WAS the best.
darthvadorthestrong 1 year ago
I have heard there are thousands of pages that could be released.Give us more...please
ZOOJAMPS 2 years ago
I read it in one day! Excellent! Thanks so much for this post!
damone77 2 years ago