Tag, do you really think the goal is to get more people playing golf? I'm sure a lot more people would play if you blasted techno music across the course, had a boom box on every tee, and stripper poles for the cart girls. Would that be ok? or is the modern game you like too pure for such popular cultural marketing ideas? I think you need to think it through a bit more. Not sure why you would be checking out Hogan videos either. I have a nice life, and will play golf as I like as you suggest
What is wrong with modern gear if it gets people playing golf? nothing
All this talk of new gear ruining the game is a load of rubbish, if you want to keep the game as pure as it was why not use proper blades and hickory shafts and feathery balls, now thats real golf as it was intended, not with easy to hit muscle backed irons with steel shafts.
Get a life and just let people play how they want with what they want
@Crusoe37 well, you keep reminiscing about the goold old days, sir. heck yeah, the old technology was more difficulty to play, but pros werent' playing 7,400 yard golf courses on greens that stimped in the 12's the very best players could've played in any era. today's bottom of the money list guys, not so much. but as far as the average weekend player scoring better w/ the new gear, it's just not true. And,it's not like a young Jack Nicklaus would be out there shooting 58, today.
@Crusoe37 I'll concede that the equipment boom has led to more crowded golf courses, but technology has NOT made 'cat 1'golfers out of hackers who could never break 80, otherwise. Recreational handicaps have not improved one bit in the last 20 years. In the hands of a competent player, sure, the equipment makes a difference. I would say that 'working' the ball has become a lost art, simply because the ball and the clubs are designed to reduce spin. Joe Schmoe can't work it, anyway
i know equipment helps, but golf also has a lot more athletic players these days. with the old clubs i still think tiger, bubba, quiros, etc would hit it further than hogan, moe etc but that being said, im not very good at golf and the other day i hit a 7 iron into a par 5 for my 2nd off the mens tees. it could definitely use some reform.
i agree, what's the point in building longer coarses??? i know £££££££££££££££££££££££££££ on equipment ££££££££££££££ on coarses! they call it evolution!
If there is going to be a governing body in the sport.. then their job and purpose is to preserve and respect the traditions of the game. The USGA has failed miserably at their responsibility as caretakers of this great game. This is typical when there is no competition and a monopoly such as the USGA runs irresponsibly wild with self interest.
Wow I agree 100% with the sentiment of this video. The balls just go so far its absurd. As a decent, but not scratch player, I shouldn't be able to hit my wedge 150 yards, and shouldnt be mishitting drivers over 250-its silly. I find most courses I play I rarely use more than an 8 iron for my second to a par four-unless wind or a huge mishit-it takes the variety and skill out of the game. for me the ball is the biggest issue. Driver technology just compounds the issue.
I agree with the Posters comments, whole heartedly. I let a young fellow try to hit my old Hogan Series 56 the other day he could not even find the Ball.
I want my Old No. 1 Ball in Golf back the titliest Balata, too.
I have played on a course that the pros played on back in the day. Twin Hiills golf and country club in oklahoma city. It is very different from the courses that the pros play on today. It is waaaayyy shorter and some of the fairways are narrower. Sure the equipment has gotten better, but the courses the professionals play have gotten longer as a result. Sure in baseball they still use wooden bats but they don't keep extending the length of the field either.
I agree, a lot of the "money" shots are now inside 175 yards, as anyone knows, the loft of 7-wedge makes side spin go away. I have a really fucked up swing, but inside 175, I'm on the green almost every time.
Even with the 'frying pan' drivers, oversized perimeter weighted irons, 5 wedges, and a ball that's made to go high, long and straight, 'Joe Hacker's' handicap still hasn't changed in the last 50 years. Guys on Tour aren't shooting 54's on a regular basis (at all). Technology has made the marginal Tour player a mulit millionaire. That's about the only difference. Oh, and it's made equipment companies multi billionaires. Get over it, already. I can't hit my big driver more than 240, anyway
I am not a pro, however I have seen some great golfers, it is getting that bad that the ability to shape shots will be gone.Nicklaus was right when he said the pro tournaments should all use 75 compression. I saw snead in 59 hit a driver and 2 iron to a 601 yd par 5. They remain the 2 best strokes I have ever seen. Today they would probably use a 7iron second or even less. Innovation is fine,but if it takes the skill away, what have you left,gorillas?
YOU ARE ALL MISSING THE POINT ,IT IS NOT SO MUCH THE CLUBS AS THE BALLS THAT HAVE CHANGED THE GAME.I WAS 21 IN 64 AND COULD JUST KNOCK IT OUT 200/220 YDS.I WENT BACK HOME IN 2000 AND STILL USING A PERSIMMON BOBBY LOCKE WOOD I KNOCKED IT 50 YDS PAST WHAT I HAD DONE IN 64.IN THE 60S THE BALLS WERE SMALL B51s,DUNLOP 65s AND HOT DOT &SOME BRITISH BALLS.LOOK WHAT YOU HAVE NOW ,BALLS TO SUIT YOUR GAME.
I have played for 55years, saw snead in 59 and again in 77 it was always a joy to watch the pros hit great long irons, something I was never able to do.I watched the masters and on one par5? they were hitting wedges into the green.If we do not do something like change 5s to 4s and some short 4s to 3sjust for the pros it will become a drive and wedge game.Technology is making just good players into super players,not what the game is about.
I'm right there with you on this one. I love my old three wood with the smaller head. I think they are easier to hit and more appealing to the eye than the frying pan on the end of a pole modern drivers. the new drivers sound like shit too.
I respect your sentiment lagpressure.. particularly because marketing forces that drive golf technology are driven by money rather than the goal of keeping the game consistent over decades. I've always wondered what it was like to play the same equipment as Ben Hogan to see what he sees when he hits a shot well. Your analogy with chess doesn't apply, though. Technology is a key part of the game now, whether we like it or not. Every top grandmaster uses the best chess engines to aid in study.
Golf: Game, art, science, psychological, strategical & may even tap into 1's soul. A 4 par is drivable yet it doesnt mean they will hit the green or make the puts. Concentration is still the name of the game, a bunker shot takes skills & this Game is @least 90% skill, the rest is luck good or bad breaks we all get them the skill is what distinguishes us unlike poker fate is in the golfers hands. Solving equations correctly wins & dont 4get having fun is the point of games seeing the world is A+
What about a game like chess? Should they change the board's size, give the pawns more powers like golf has given hackers with frying pan drivers? Why take the skill out of a game? If you do, it becomes less interesting. Golf has turned from chess to checkers. It's been dumbed down. If you can't understand that, then you probably have never played chess and just don't understand the differences. If you grew up playing checkers, how would you know?
Other sports have maintained strict equipment rules. Would basketball be better played on a bigger court with a higher hoop, but leave the diameter of the hoop the same to pretend to uphold the games integrity? Why don't they allow springs in the shoes so everyone could then dunk it?
Ok, you want to compare baseball? They still used wood bats.. why don't they advance into giant size titanium bats? Then the ball would go farther, so then the sport could compensate by obsoleting all the ball parks, and build new ones that are less accessible way outside of town. Make the parks huge and less fun to watch...then make the baseball park outfield target 180 degrees rather than 90 as it is now.
lagpressure, why are you so concerned about technological advancements in the game?? you think there wouldnt be any criticism if there were still persimmon drivers?? if a pitcher doesnt throw hard enough to play major league baseball, hes not prepared. if a golfer doesnt hit it far enough to play on tour, hes not prepared. its the game today, stop living in the past and crying for persimmon and realize it has become a game of technology and athleticism
i say instead of making holes longer they should make greens much, much smaller, this gives the shorter hitters like Jim Furyk a better chance of comparing to Dustin Johnson or Bubba Watson. the long hitters will still have the advantage on the second shot but it requires the <130 yard shot that some of the long hitters don't have
smithersandburns, I'm sure you're aware of Hogan being very long pre-accident, even pre-fade days so he was, if not after 1950, a long hitter. If he was long enough for Mike Austin to say so...
Although i can understand the argument, however, just because hogan and snead hit this and that over a 450 yards (411 meters) par 4, in my opinion, is quite irrelevant. The fact is, it's 2010, and i'm sure, the game is just as hard back then as it is now. Agree?
I disagree. The golf swings of today are being left behind. Why are we not seeing the next Hogan? With all the technology available, we are seeing worse golf in relation to par. Remember, the modern tour players are playing par 68's every week.
So 16 under today is simply even par by the old standard. Top players in the world now are hitting less than 50% of their fairways. The clubs are too long, too light, and the heads offer poor feedback therefore a proper golf swing can't develop.
@lagpressure Forgive me for pulling punches, but you just answered your question... It's not technology that is the problem, it's lack of ability, impatience and a rediculous expectation of trying to hit the ball 500 yards???? In reality, fueling the golf industrie ever growing profits by selling the "NEXT" big new drivers and irons to make you drive and play like Tiger.......
Proper golf gear was designed to find balance between power and accuracy. Hogan was most interested in accuracy, but was also a very long hitter. All you have to do is put together a 14 to 16 ounce persimmon driver with a tipped X shaft, small head, 43 inch shaft, and have a go. I am sure you'll have a better appreciation, and even more if you use a balata golf ball... or you can take 20 steps backwards after you hit a new one.
@lagpressure Ok, you are assuming that I am not aware of the differences in equipment between now and then. That is an extremely bad assumption, and is rather obnoxious. I had a Hogan Apex persimmon driver back in the late 80s early 90s and hit many Titleist Tour Balatas with it. I would hit them 280-290. So on a 450 yard par 4 I'd have about 165 in which was a 7 iron. Hogan is hitting 4 wood. That's because he'd hit his drive 250 and have 200 in. He wasn't a short hitter, but he..
....was not a long hitter either. And he was not even close to a "very long hitter. " Nicklaus was a long hitter, so was Snead. Not Hogan. You've just heard a lot of hype about him so you figure he's long too, but you don't actually know what you're talking about there.
Well, I think we are really in agreement here about the bigger problem being the equipment with vintage golf courses having to adapt to that... which is a horrific situation. Moving the tees back changes the shape and intent of the hole... it does not make the hole better. More often than not, doglegs required the player to shape the ball off the tee, often significantly... to test their skill and ability. Moving the tees back 75 yards makes it a straight shot play to the corner. Silly stuff.
@lagpressure It only changes the shape of the hole if they add too much length to it, or if you are a short hitter. The point of adding length to a hole is supposed to be so the shape of the hole is not changed but so that the hole remains the same regarding where the drives of average length players should end up.
adding length does change the shape, just as a square becoming elongated transforms into a rectangle. If you study ball shape in the air, most of the curving nature happens before it's apex, so in the old days, with the hole shorter, more of that curvature could get into the shot so you could get the ball to peak around the corner into the proper position in the fairway. If you move the tees back, the ball has to come in straighter to it's final resting spot.
If you agree Snead was long, then let's make it aware Sam was hitting a 2 iron as well.
Hogan hit 4 wood, not much difference. I play often with Al Barkow who was actually walking the fairways that day covering the event. Al says Hogan was very long when he wanted to be.
@lagpressure Yeah, I'm saying Hogan hit it 20 yards longer than Hogan. And that Jack Nicklaus hit it 20 yards farther than Snead. Hogan distance wise was nothing special. He was just very accurate and consistent.
The idea that course length has anything to do with the quality of a golf course is simply not true. You could take the worst public goat track, go out with a box of tee markers and a shovel, and add modern length. It would only make for a longer day likely less enjoyment.
Making a chess board bigger does not make the game more interesting. But turning the game into "Checkers" would make it less of a game, which is essentially what has been happening to golf.
@lagpressure What ruins the quality of a golf course is when the players and the equipment get so long that it completely changes how the course is played. When a hole was designed for a mid or long iron to be hit into it off a 240-250 yard drive and now people are hitting it 320 and people are hitting a 3/4 wedge into it, it totally changes the course so they have to add length. This is what happened at Augusta when Tiger would have 75 yards into 18 instead of 160, etc.etc.
I totally agree. Who would be the greats today had blades and real persimmon woods been mandatory? I've got some Jack Nicklaus persimmon woods and I still take them out from time to time and use them. One thing I do play all the time though is blade irons and I still hit them very well...I am 56 years old and can still remember watching some of the best at the 50th PGA and Texas Open.
@pat52010 Just also wanted to add that I am a purist as far as wedges too. I only carry a 56 degree sand wedge and a regular pitching wedge. If you need a lob wedge to get it done, you ain't playing golf!! When I was a kid I did not even get my first sand wedge until I was about 14 or 15. But I could still get it out of the bunker with a regular pitching wedge!!
@pat52010 Almost every single pro on tour carries a 60* or at least a 58* wedge. They obviously value it as an essential club in their bag. So are you claiming that they all "ain't playing golf"??
Oh you've touched a sore spot with me . . . Not only do I think pros should play with wooden woods, they should be using blades only and balata balls. In short time we would see the cream rise, and some very cool golf being played. Hey game improvement stuff has made it possible for old golfers to still enjoy themselves and hackers/recreationals to get around the course without as much delay (while subsidizing the course with their green fees). Augusta should have called BS, said woods only.
@stuartmcdowall You know how in high school and college baseball they have wood bat tournaments and leagues? Wouldn't it be great to have a persimmon only golf tournament with the pros. I would love to hear and see that!
@m21rich I've wished they would do this for years. They problem that the tour has with it is that the players find it a hassle to get adjusted to such different equipment since they never practice or play with it anymore. But there should at least be an event in the fall fun season where they still do it. That would be fun for everyone to watch.
just getting into the game with a friend's knowledgable instruction. having to go on the cheap, finding REAL wood drivers (Ping) have been far more enjoyable to swing than the titanium ones others around have in their bag. the feel, sound and experience thus far with "traditional" woods make me smile and i don't care, i will use them on the fairways. louisville has reproduced persimmons with a 250cc. they've had some positive testimonials thus far. i will pick some up in the future. good golfin
Couldn't agree with you more. The equipment today props up many tour pros - the easiest way to prove it would be to send them all out at one tournament a year playing with the old style blade with sweet spots the size of a dime and the old balls that spun more. You'd see scores in the 80s.
In Cricket, they just simply banned metal bats in 1979,
which I think was about the same time metal woods appeared on tour. Golf should have followed their lead no doubt. They were called woods for as long as the game had been played for a reason...
They were made of wood..
I still play persimmon exclusively and will beat most golfers draped in modern gear.
you are absolutely spot on-the same point can be made for tennis also-they have not protected the traditions of the game either-look at the swimmers breaking world records with costumes that make them go faster-what a joke
If a company sponsored a tournament that matched what the prize money currently is and required the play with "WOOD" woods and vintage blades and old styled putters the pros would come out and be humbled for the sake of the money. Hammer
Surly metal shafted clubs are detracting from the skill needed in the game.
I personaly play hickory shafted clubs.
As to why I am looking at Hogan vids, he was a great golfer, maybe not as good a Nicklaus though but enjoyable to watch
tagnut69 3 weeks ago
Tag, do you really think the goal is to get more people playing golf? I'm sure a lot more people would play if you blasted techno music across the course, had a boom box on every tee, and stripper poles for the cart girls. Would that be ok? or is the modern game you like too pure for such popular cultural marketing ideas? I think you need to think it through a bit more. Not sure why you would be checking out Hogan videos either. I have a nice life, and will play golf as I like as you suggest
lagpressure 3 weeks ago
What is wrong with modern gear if it gets people playing golf? nothing
All this talk of new gear ruining the game is a load of rubbish, if you want to keep the game as pure as it was why not use proper blades and hickory shafts and feathery balls, now thats real golf as it was intended, not with easy to hit muscle backed irons with steel shafts.
Get a life and just let people play how they want with what they want
tagnut69 4 weeks ago
@Crusoe37 well, you keep reminiscing about the goold old days, sir. heck yeah, the old technology was more difficulty to play, but pros werent' playing 7,400 yard golf courses on greens that stimped in the 12's the very best players could've played in any era. today's bottom of the money list guys, not so much. but as far as the average weekend player scoring better w/ the new gear, it's just not true. And,it's not like a young Jack Nicklaus would be out there shooting 58, today.
earthshine2k 2 months ago
@Crusoe37 I'll concede that the equipment boom has led to more crowded golf courses, but technology has NOT made 'cat 1'golfers out of hackers who could never break 80, otherwise. Recreational handicaps have not improved one bit in the last 20 years. In the hands of a competent player, sure, the equipment makes a difference. I would say that 'working' the ball has become a lost art, simply because the ball and the clubs are designed to reduce spin. Joe Schmoe can't work it, anyway
earthshine2k 2 months ago
i know equipment helps, but golf also has a lot more athletic players these days. with the old clubs i still think tiger, bubba, quiros, etc would hit it further than hogan, moe etc but that being said, im not very good at golf and the other day i hit a 7 iron into a par 5 for my 2nd off the mens tees. it could definitely use some reform.
OzBooger 4 months ago
i agree, what's the point in building longer coarses??? i know £££££££££££££££££££££££££££ on equipment ££££££££££££££ on coarses! they call it evolution!
fradaja 4 months ago
If there is going to be a governing body in the sport.. then their job and purpose is to preserve and respect the traditions of the game. The USGA has failed miserably at their responsibility as caretakers of this great game. This is typical when there is no competition and a monopoly such as the USGA runs irresponsibly wild with self interest.
lagpressure 5 months ago
Wow I agree 100% with the sentiment of this video. The balls just go so far its absurd. As a decent, but not scratch player, I shouldn't be able to hit my wedge 150 yards, and shouldnt be mishitting drivers over 250-its silly. I find most courses I play I rarely use more than an 8 iron for my second to a par four-unless wind or a huge mishit-it takes the variety and skill out of the game. for me the ball is the biggest issue. Driver technology just compounds the issue.
cockywatchman1976 5 months ago
I agree with the Posters comments, whole heartedly. I let a young fellow try to hit my old Hogan Series 56 the other day he could not even find the Ball.
I want my Old No. 1 Ball in Golf back the titliest Balata, too.
ksharpe10 9 months ago
I have played on a course that the pros played on back in the day. Twin Hiills golf and country club in oklahoma city. It is very different from the courses that the pros play on today. It is waaaayyy shorter and some of the fairways are narrower. Sure the equipment has gotten better, but the courses the professionals play have gotten longer as a result. Sure in baseball they still use wooden bats but they don't keep extending the length of the field either.
goosedreams 9 months ago
I agree, a lot of the "money" shots are now inside 175 yards, as anyone knows, the loft of 7-wedge makes side spin go away. I have a really fucked up swing, but inside 175, I'm on the green almost every time.
canibalcorpse73 9 months ago
Even with the 'frying pan' drivers, oversized perimeter weighted irons, 5 wedges, and a ball that's made to go high, long and straight, 'Joe Hacker's' handicap still hasn't changed in the last 50 years. Guys on Tour aren't shooting 54's on a regular basis (at all). Technology has made the marginal Tour player a mulit millionaire. That's about the only difference. Oh, and it's made equipment companies multi billionaires. Get over it, already. I can't hit my big driver more than 240, anyway
earthshine2k 10 months ago
I am not a pro, however I have seen some great golfers, it is getting that bad that the ability to shape shots will be gone.Nicklaus was right when he said the pro tournaments should all use 75 compression. I saw snead in 59 hit a driver and 2 iron to a 601 yd par 5. They remain the 2 best strokes I have ever seen. Today they would probably use a 7iron second or even less. Innovation is fine,but if it takes the skill away, what have you left,gorillas?
18tangles 10 months ago
YOU ARE ALL MISSING THE POINT ,IT IS NOT SO MUCH THE CLUBS AS THE BALLS THAT HAVE CHANGED THE GAME.I WAS 21 IN 64 AND COULD JUST KNOCK IT OUT 200/220 YDS.I WENT BACK HOME IN 2000 AND STILL USING A PERSIMMON BOBBY LOCKE WOOD I KNOCKED IT 50 YDS PAST WHAT I HAD DONE IN 64.IN THE 60S THE BALLS WERE SMALL B51s,DUNLOP 65s AND HOT DOT &SOME BRITISH BALLS.LOOK WHAT YOU HAVE NOW ,BALLS TO SUIT YOUR GAME.
18tangles 10 months ago
I have played for 55years, saw snead in 59 and again in 77 it was always a joy to watch the pros hit great long irons, something I was never able to do.I watched the masters and on one par5? they were hitting wedges into the green.If we do not do something like change 5s to 4s and some short 4s to 3sjust for the pros it will become a drive and wedge game.Technology is making just good players into super players,not what the game is about.
18tangles 10 months ago
Amazing performance by Hogan that day - he hit all 18 greens in regulation and finished 3 under par.
fayette202 11 months ago
I'm right there with you on this one. I love my old three wood with the smaller head. I think they are easier to hit and more appealing to the eye than the frying pan on the end of a pole modern drivers. the new drivers sound like shit too.
dillingerexcape87 1 year ago
I respect your sentiment lagpressure.. particularly because marketing forces that drive golf technology are driven by money rather than the goal of keeping the game consistent over decades. I've always wondered what it was like to play the same equipment as Ben Hogan to see what he sees when he hits a shot well. Your analogy with chess doesn't apply, though. Technology is a key part of the game now, whether we like it or not. Every top grandmaster uses the best chess engines to aid in study.
bunkerputt 1 year ago
Golf: Game, art, science, psychological, strategical & may even tap into 1's soul. A 4 par is drivable yet it doesnt mean they will hit the green or make the puts. Concentration is still the name of the game, a bunker shot takes skills & this Game is @least 90% skill, the rest is luck good or bad breaks we all get them the skill is what distinguishes us unlike poker fate is in the golfers hands. Solving equations correctly wins & dont 4get having fun is the point of games seeing the world is A+
MegaVEGA7k 1 year ago
What about a game like chess? Should they change the board's size, give the pawns more powers like golf has given hackers with frying pan drivers? Why take the skill out of a game? If you do, it becomes less interesting. Golf has turned from chess to checkers. It's been dumbed down. If you can't understand that, then you probably have never played chess and just don't understand the differences. If you grew up playing checkers, how would you know?
lagpressure 1 year ago 3
Other sports have maintained strict equipment rules. Would basketball be better played on a bigger court with a higher hoop, but leave the diameter of the hoop the same to pretend to uphold the games integrity? Why don't they allow springs in the shoes so everyone could then dunk it?
lagpressure 1 year ago
Ok, you want to compare baseball? They still used wood bats.. why don't they advance into giant size titanium bats? Then the ball would go farther, so then the sport could compensate by obsoleting all the ball parks, and build new ones that are less accessible way outside of town. Make the parks huge and less fun to watch...then make the baseball park outfield target 180 degrees rather than 90 as it is now.
lagpressure 1 year ago
lagpressure, why are you so concerned about technological advancements in the game?? you think there wouldnt be any criticism if there were still persimmon drivers?? if a pitcher doesnt throw hard enough to play major league baseball, hes not prepared. if a golfer doesnt hit it far enough to play on tour, hes not prepared. its the game today, stop living in the past and crying for persimmon and realize it has become a game of technology and athleticism
retreattodefeat 1 year ago
i say instead of making holes longer they should make greens much, much smaller, this gives the shorter hitters like Jim Furyk a better chance of comparing to Dustin Johnson or Bubba Watson. the long hitters will still have the advantage on the second shot but it requires the <130 yard shot that some of the long hitters don't have
FerrarisRock 1 year ago
i hate hitting long irons into the green... 6-lw im fine
helenathena 1 year ago
smithersandburns, I'm sure you're aware of Hogan being very long pre-accident, even pre-fade days so he was, if not after 1950, a long hitter. If he was long enough for Mike Austin to say so...
bossofalltime 1 year ago
Although i can understand the argument, however, just because hogan and snead hit this and that over a 450 yards (411 meters) par 4, in my opinion, is quite irrelevant. The fact is, it's 2010, and i'm sure, the game is just as hard back then as it is now. Agree?
MrAzzatron 1 year ago
I disagree. The golf swings of today are being left behind. Why are we not seeing the next Hogan? With all the technology available, we are seeing worse golf in relation to par. Remember, the modern tour players are playing par 68's every week.
So 16 under today is simply even par by the old standard. Top players in the world now are hitting less than 50% of their fairways. The clubs are too long, too light, and the heads offer poor feedback therefore a proper golf swing can't develop.
lagpressure 1 year ago
@lagpressure Forgive me for pulling punches, but you just answered your question... It's not technology that is the problem, it's lack of ability, impatience and a rediculous expectation of trying to hit the ball 500 yards???? In reality, fueling the golf industrie ever growing profits by selling the "NEXT" big new drivers and irons to make you drive and play like Tiger.......
MrAzzatron 1 year ago
Hogan was a long hitter because he hit a 4 wood into a 450 yard par 4?
That is evidence he was not a long hitter.
smithersandburns 1 year ago
Proper golf gear was designed to find balance between power and accuracy. Hogan was most interested in accuracy, but was also a very long hitter. All you have to do is put together a 14 to 16 ounce persimmon driver with a tipped X shaft, small head, 43 inch shaft, and have a go. I am sure you'll have a better appreciation, and even more if you use a balata golf ball... or you can take 20 steps backwards after you hit a new one.
It's got to be apples to apples.
lagpressure 1 year ago
@lagpressure Ok, you are assuming that I am not aware of the differences in equipment between now and then. That is an extremely bad assumption, and is rather obnoxious. I had a Hogan Apex persimmon driver back in the late 80s early 90s and hit many Titleist Tour Balatas with it. I would hit them 280-290. So on a 450 yard par 4 I'd have about 165 in which was a 7 iron. Hogan is hitting 4 wood. That's because he'd hit his drive 250 and have 200 in. He wasn't a short hitter, but he..
smithersandburns 1 year ago
....was not a long hitter either. And he was not even close to a "very long hitter. " Nicklaus was a long hitter, so was Snead. Not Hogan. You've just heard a lot of hype about him so you figure he's long too, but you don't actually know what you're talking about there.
smithersandburns 1 year ago
Well, I think we are really in agreement here about the bigger problem being the equipment with vintage golf courses having to adapt to that... which is a horrific situation. Moving the tees back changes the shape and intent of the hole... it does not make the hole better. More often than not, doglegs required the player to shape the ball off the tee, often significantly... to test their skill and ability. Moving the tees back 75 yards makes it a straight shot play to the corner. Silly stuff.
lagpressure 1 year ago
@lagpressure It only changes the shape of the hole if they add too much length to it, or if you are a short hitter. The point of adding length to a hole is supposed to be so the shape of the hole is not changed but so that the hole remains the same regarding where the drives of average length players should end up.
smithersandburns 1 year ago
@smithersandburns
adding length does change the shape, just as a square becoming elongated transforms into a rectangle. If you study ball shape in the air, most of the curving nature happens before it's apex, so in the old days, with the hole shorter, more of that curvature could get into the shot so you could get the ball to peak around the corner into the proper position in the fairway. If you move the tees back, the ball has to come in straighter to it's final resting spot.
lagpressure 1 year ago
@lagpressure Distance is games way of improved technology. You can do one of two things, embrace it or get left behind...
MrAzzatron 1 year ago
If you agree Snead was long, then let's make it aware Sam was hitting a 2 iron as well.
Hogan hit 4 wood, not much difference. I play often with Al Barkow who was actually walking the fairways that day covering the event. Al says Hogan was very long when he wanted to be.
I'll take his word for it.
lagpressure 1 year ago
@lagpressure Yeah, I'm saying Hogan hit it 20 yards longer than Hogan. And that Jack Nicklaus hit it 20 yards farther than Snead. Hogan distance wise was nothing special. He was just very accurate and consistent.
smithersandburns 1 year ago
Jack Nicklaus has pointed out, modern courses are much longer and take a lot longer to get around as a result of the increased distances off the tee.
It took 4 of us almost 5 hours to get around the Belfry PGA course with nobody in front holding us up.
We managed to hit the ball 330 yds downhill with a following wind on rock hard fairways. But is that really golf?
I got most pleasure that day from drawing a 4 iron hit low under the wind in to a green difficult.
robbinzo 1 year ago
The idea that course length has anything to do with the quality of a golf course is simply not true. You could take the worst public goat track, go out with a box of tee markers and a shovel, and add modern length. It would only make for a longer day likely less enjoyment.
Making a chess board bigger does not make the game more interesting. But turning the game into "Checkers" would make it less of a game, which is essentially what has been happening to golf.
lagpressure 1 year ago
@lagpressure What ruins the quality of a golf course is when the players and the equipment get so long that it completely changes how the course is played. When a hole was designed for a mid or long iron to be hit into it off a 240-250 yard drive and now people are hitting it 320 and people are hitting a 3/4 wedge into it, it totally changes the course so they have to add length. This is what happened at Augusta when Tiger would have 75 yards into 18 instead of 160, etc.etc.
smithersandburns 1 year ago
This is an excellent point, excellent.
scend1 1 year ago
I totally agree. Who would be the greats today had blades and real persimmon woods been mandatory? I've got some Jack Nicklaus persimmon woods and I still take them out from time to time and use them. One thing I do play all the time though is blade irons and I still hit them very well...I am 56 years old and can still remember watching some of the best at the 50th PGA and Texas Open.
pat52010 1 year ago
@pat52010 Just also wanted to add that I am a purist as far as wedges too. I only carry a 56 degree sand wedge and a regular pitching wedge. If you need a lob wedge to get it done, you ain't playing golf!! When I was a kid I did not even get my first sand wedge until I was about 14 or 15. But I could still get it out of the bunker with a regular pitching wedge!!
pat52010 1 year ago
@pat52010 Almost every single pro on tour carries a 60* or at least a 58* wedge. They obviously value it as an essential club in their bag. So are you claiming that they all "ain't playing golf"??
smithersandburns 1 year ago
Oh you've touched a sore spot with me . . . Not only do I think pros should play with wooden woods, they should be using blades only and balata balls. In short time we would see the cream rise, and some very cool golf being played. Hey game improvement stuff has made it possible for old golfers to still enjoy themselves and hackers/recreationals to get around the course without as much delay (while subsidizing the course with their green fees). Augusta should have called BS, said woods only.
stuartmcdowall 1 year ago
@stuartmcdowall You know how in high school and college baseball they have wood bat tournaments and leagues? Wouldn't it be great to have a persimmon only golf tournament with the pros. I would love to hear and see that!
m21rich 1 year ago
@m21rich I've wished they would do this for years. They problem that the tour has with it is that the players find it a hassle to get adjusted to such different equipment since they never practice or play with it anymore. But there should at least be an event in the fall fun season where they still do it. That would be fun for everyone to watch.
smithersandburns 1 year ago
@stuartmcdowall I don't disagree with this idea. But to a very high degree the cream has already risen regardless of what the equipment is.
smithersandburns 1 year ago
just getting into the game with a friend's knowledgable instruction. having to go on the cheap, finding REAL wood drivers (Ping) have been far more enjoyable to swing than the titanium ones others around have in their bag. the feel, sound and experience thus far with "traditional" woods make me smile and i don't care, i will use them on the fairways. louisville has reproduced persimmons with a 250cc. they've had some positive testimonials thus far. i will pick some up in the future. good golfin
w4r7 2 years ago
i completely agree, bring back persimmon! tiger woods has said more than once that if he had his way, it'd still be all persimmon.
mirvae 2 years ago
Thank you. I am just getting back into the game and still using my laminate woods.
At the range, most younger people don't know what to make of the sound of the wood clubs or why I use them.
And I could care less. A three wood shot right off of the mat or the grass feels/sounds fantastic. Just can't be duplicated with today's stuff.
Weresmarterthen 2 years ago
add me to the list of these who agree to your comments
h1e2x3 2 years ago
Couldn't agree with you more. The equipment today props up many tour pros - the easiest way to prove it would be to send them all out at one tournament a year playing with the old style blade with sweet spots the size of a dime and the old balls that spun more. You'd see scores in the 80s.
tk11743 2 years ago
@tk11743 Could you please explain how you think it props up many tour pros? And which pros are getting propped up?
smithersandburns 1 year ago
In Cricket, they just simply banned metal bats in 1979,
which I think was about the same time metal woods appeared on tour. Golf should have followed their lead no doubt. They were called woods for as long as the game had been played for a reason...
They were made of wood..
I still play persimmon exclusively and will beat most golfers draped in modern gear.
lagpressure 2 years ago
you are absolutely spot on-the same point can be made for tennis also-they have not protected the traditions of the game either-look at the swimmers breaking world records with costumes that make them go faster-what a joke
shortgamebull 2 years ago
Hogan was definitely pound for pound one of the longest hitters in history. Many people overlook that fact
Ralph
Gotham Golf Blog
ralphsunnyside 2 years ago
Great point well made, there's definitely a lot of truth in this. Its all bomb and gouge now.
HabloIrlandes 2 years ago
it would be interesting to see all the modern pros hit vintage long iron blades, i think a story would be told. great video!
hogansquest 2 years ago
If a company sponsored a tournament that matched what the prize money currently is and required the play with "WOOD" woods and vintage blades and old styled putters the pros would come out and be humbled for the sake of the money. Hammer
wholebrainplanet 2 years ago
If they were using modern golf balls there would be little difference.
BucktoothBob 2 years ago