All this makes me want to cry in a rage and break things and hurt myself because im too stupid to decypher all this laugh all you want i just want his love just to be able to be okay with him safe and take as many as i can with m. There is a hope through all this fear, confusion, and hurt. Somehow someway please Jesus save me. Im losing hope and im falling i need you don't let me go please.
I thought this series was to contradict critical scholars? As they say 99% of those agree Jesus existed, so why is the video concentrating on this strawman? As a form of hishonest argument, to suggest the jesus seminar thinks Jesus didn't exist.
@macroman52 The video only contradicts the Jesus Seminar who say Jesus was a real historical figure. The "Jesus as Myth" wackos are non-scholars. They are amateurs who promote their long ago refuted hypothesis on the Internet.
@jcr4runner BTW: It's more than 99 percent. 100 percent of historians (those credentialed with PhDs qualified to teach) ALL agree that a historical Jesus existed. If you disagree, name one historian alive today who has published a "Jesus as Myth" paper in a peer reviewed journal.
Interesting how there is historical background for the New Testament. Christians openly show writings other than the New Testament to prove it's authenticity. With the Old Testament everyone fears questioning a single word even though hundreds, even thousands of tablets and scrolls exist that go much deeper into creation and ancient history than the Bible and are thousands of years older. The Bible was rewritten and many things omitted. IE: Book of Enoch. Frankly, Jews wrote it to suit Jews.
Interesting vid. The crucial question these .scholars' fail to ask is: "regardless of who wrote the disparate collection of books they call the new testaments - and why these few were selected from numerous other equally valid documents available - why do we need to believe literally what is clearly - to any intelligent person - analogy?" Is it not too silly for words that the 'speciality' of these self appointed 'authorities' is actually blind superstition?
@zthetha The simple answer is that those books were not "selected" by later generations that they were passed down to bishops who the original Apostles ordained. This is attested to in the writings of the second century. The idea that the New Testament was assembled many centuries later is an untenable idea. We have canonical lists in the second century with the idea that this was already long ago settled.
Jesus never said he was God or some type of Holy spirit. He was a real person that went through real problems. Now must of you guys historically facts are way off. Jesus was a Ethiopian man trying to change the world for the good. If your black, white, purple,blue believe in Jesus or believe in Islam. If your religion makes you a better person I'm all for it.
I think adolf hitler will be seen as a myth 2000 years from now and i dont even think we will be lexured about him in school anymore at that time am i right?
So many ppl reject JESUS for reasons, the real reasons for rejecting JESUS was given by JESUS himself --- these people do not want to follow the correct path.
Ppl blame the old testament for violence, when JESUS said all the prophets and the laws refers to me and commanded us to "Love others as yourself and worship god with all ur heart and mind" --- What is wrong with Jesus' commandments????
@ksebasti100 What is wrong is within you, your heart. Jesus is the ONLY truth. Sooner or later everyone believe, everyone will believe. Mark my words.
Jesus Himself said, "whoever has will, will be given more. Whoever doesn't whatever will he has will be taken away". Try to read the bible, may God bless you.
Also the Bible is indigenous to the middle east, if we're to believe the bible a flood wiped out the world and only Noah and family remained yet there are still indigenous peoples of south america, australia, china etc lol
I always hear, JESUS DIED FOR YOU, FOR YOUR SINS, have you ever thought about how many millions of people have died for Jesus, people who suffered through torment and persicution to the death defending their belief in him and in God, so I think maybe Jesus should worship those people, why would God want to be such a control freak anyways, it just doesn't make sense at all and it subjects people to blind acceptance of authority, just another political tool among many others, just my opinion
@abird1111 well Jesus was a sinless man and only and man without sin, Jesus, can die for the sinners...a sinful man (which all of us are as well as the people who died for the name of Christ) cannot die for anyone else only for their own sins...
A video on YouTube making a claim is not "evidence."
Evidence would be a manuscript that came to light after several years that was suppressed. There are non. All of the Dead Sea Scrolls are published. They were cataloged when found -- prior to being translated -- and the Vatican never had any control over the scrolls.
Yes, there are a few absurd books out there claiming this, but there is no evidence -- only evidence to the contrary.
But there is the Gospel of Thomas which is a far earlier document than the ones found in the new testament but then it didn't fulfill the romans means
There is some misunderstanding because two versions of the Gospel of Thomas were found, the original text in arabic is from 30-50 CE which is far earlier than the scriptures of the new testament. The one which is later is a greek translation.
That's a tell-all. Over half of the Gospel of Thomas is just quotations from the sayings of Jesus from all four of the canonical Gospels. It even has a few references to Paul's writings. That tells us it is late.
First, the EARLIER copy is from Egypt, second there are no other Christian writings prior to the second century that quote so much of the New Testament.
@jcr4runner You make several false assertions. 1. Only some of the sayings in the GOT are in the 4G. 2. Most scholars believe it predates the four gospels. 3. GOT is about finding the inner light, which contradicts the teachings of Paul and the 4G. This would explain its exclusion from the NT, and its attractiveness to Gnostics of the time.
Scholars think that Thomas is a later edition of Tatian's Diatessarron (c.175 AD - a harmony of the four Gospels written in the Syriac language) and the clincher is that the Greek copy even retains some of the Syriac forms and arrangements.
The earliest Thomas could possibly be is late second century.
@jcr4runner Well I have heard differently but take your point. Whatever the reasoning the Bible was written by man and we shouldn't take too much stock in it, its full of genocide, condones slavery, is sexiest and bigoted because it was written a long time ago.
@MegaJay79 We shouldn't take too much stock in it -- Unless of course it is the "Gospel of Thomas" :-)
None of the Gnostic Gospels are entitled "According to ..." as the four Gospels are. They are entitled "The Gospel of ... Thomas, Judas, Philip, etc."
The idea here is that one of the disciples received "secret knowledge" and passed it down to the enlightened few -- the Gnostics. No Gnostic Gospel claims to have been composed in the first century by a disciple of Jesus.
@MegaJay79 No Gnostic Gospel is quoted or mentioned prior to about 155 AD. All four canonical Gospels are quoted in other writings of the first century (the Didache, Clement) including cross quotes in NT books themselves.
If you think there are no "proofs" -- it dos not mean these were added later on.
Every record of Jesus -- including those by Jews and pagans -- spoke of His ability to do wonders. They also universally record that he claimed to be God's only Son.
These are the "proofs." There is no evidence that they were added later (if so, name some evidence!) There is only evidence that they originated with the words and acts of Jesus himself.
So the point of Christianity is to worship Jesus? Jesus should do something to deserve worship. Why didn't he rid the world of polio, small pox, locusts, etc.? Jesus does nothing for me, so why should I worship him? His only function is to demand worship of himself.
If he's all-powerful, why does Jesus need worship? Is he insecure or egotistical? Worshiping Jesus is simple-minded and pointless. He acts like he doesn't exist -- and yet he condemns those who doubt his existence. How senseless.
I've become more interested in things that were not human-made, including myself, & the creator of everything is worthy of recognition. It's a world that is not how it was meant to be; disease and problems will always be with us. Jesus worshipped God; he doesn't tell us to worship himself. Nobody comes to the Father but through Christ. God revealed Himself many times in the past & even then, many rejected. It was already finished.
If God revealed Himself more 'visibly' these days people would still reject, like then, and 2000 days down the road, people would be the same: not believing God already revealed himself and demanding proof again. God wants worship because He is a jealous God, but it's not the same as human jealousy that is prideful/out of cruelty. It's a holy jealousy. He is the creator of everything and is unique, deserving of praise. Recognizing God is humbling.
@FrankCoffman How sad of you to deny Jesus but hopefully you find the truth and fall inlove with Jesus he loves you although you dnt love or know Him...Get to know Jesus what do you have to lose, but you gain eternal life with Him if you believe in Him...may the Lord bless you...
Great video. And lets not forget almost all the apostles died horrible deaths. I don't think they would have been willing to die so horriby if they know Jesus is not God or doesn't exist. And they would know if He isn't God or if he doesnt exist, for they eat and lived and went around with Jesus for quite some time.
So if Jesus is not God, the apostles would know and would not have been willing to die so horribly.
This is nonsense. Even the Catholic church admits that Flavius Josephus mention of Jesus is a rank forgery as are all the others including Pliny the Younger, Suetonius and Tacitus et al. This is nothing more than yet another vain attempt by apologists to make history out of myth. Christianity has done it's absolute best to try to keep people in the dark. The only reason that churches can get away with this in this day and age is because the faithful are totally ignorant of the real truth.
Really? Can you provide citations that show that the Catholic Church admits these are ALL forgeries?
The Catholic Encyclopedia is objective about the TF:
"Attempts have been made to refute the objections brought against this passage both for internal and external reasons, but the difficulty has not been definitively settled."
Can you name a SINGLE scholar today who says that the Tacitus passage is a fraud?
Pontius Pilate's rank was prefect when he was in Judea.[10] The Tacitus passage mistakenly calls Pilate a procurator, an error also made in translations of a passage by Josephus.[11] (However, Josephus wrote in Greek and never used the Latin term.) It should be noted that after Herod Agrippa's death in AD 44, when Judea reverted to direct Roman rule, Claudius gave procurators control over Judea
This is from the recently completed DVD version with host Eric Holmberg.
"The Real Jesus: A Defense of the Historicity and Divinity of Christ" is newly expanded to include over an hour of additional materials. The total running time is now two and a half hours.
The first five parts are on YOU TUBE now. I may post parts 6-10 later on.
Order the DVD with all ten parts plus a bonus feature by clicking on the URL link underneath "ABOUT THIS VIDEO."
All this makes me want to cry in a rage and break things and hurt myself because im too stupid to decypher all this laugh all you want i just want his love just to be able to be okay with him safe and take as many as i can with m. There is a hope through all this fear, confusion, and hurt. Somehow someway please Jesus save me. Im losing hope and im falling i need you don't let me go please.
NorCalMediGrower 4 months ago
The Bible States "Jesus, Son of Joseph", and Joseph is the same as Josephus, whom Fathered/Created Jesus
GO FIGURE
thone2008 4 months ago
@thone2008 Typical post-rationalist atheistic thinking. Thanks for your input.
jcr4runner 4 months ago
I thought this series was to contradict critical scholars? As they say 99% of those agree Jesus existed, so why is the video concentrating on this strawman? As a form of hishonest argument, to suggest the jesus seminar thinks Jesus didn't exist.
macroman52 8 months ago
@macroman52 The video only contradicts the Jesus Seminar who say Jesus was a real historical figure. The "Jesus as Myth" wackos are non-scholars. They are amateurs who promote their long ago refuted hypothesis on the Internet.
jcr4runner 4 months ago
@jcr4runner BTW: It's more than 99 percent. 100 percent of historians (those credentialed with PhDs qualified to teach) ALL agree that a historical Jesus existed. If you disagree, name one historian alive today who has published a "Jesus as Myth" paper in a peer reviewed journal.
jcr4runner 4 months ago
This debate will only be resolved if and when Jesus actually does return.
LifeIsABigPuzzle 9 months ago
Interesting how there is historical background for the New Testament. Christians openly show writings other than the New Testament to prove it's authenticity. With the Old Testament everyone fears questioning a single word even though hundreds, even thousands of tablets and scrolls exist that go much deeper into creation and ancient history than the Bible and are thousands of years older. The Bible was rewritten and many things omitted. IE: Book of Enoch. Frankly, Jews wrote it to suit Jews.
SpincterManBubba 1 year ago
Interesting vid. The crucial question these .scholars' fail to ask is: "regardless of who wrote the disparate collection of books they call the new testaments - and why these few were selected from numerous other equally valid documents available - why do we need to believe literally what is clearly - to any intelligent person - analogy?" Is it not too silly for words that the 'speciality' of these self appointed 'authorities' is actually blind superstition?
zthetha 1 year ago
@zthetha The simple answer is that those books were not "selected" by later generations that they were passed down to bishops who the original Apostles ordained. This is attested to in the writings of the second century. The idea that the New Testament was assembled many centuries later is an untenable idea. We have canonical lists in the second century with the idea that this was already long ago settled.
jcr4runner 4 months ago
Jesus never said he was God or some type of Holy spirit. He was a real person that went through real problems. Now must of you guys historically facts are way off. Jesus was a Ethiopian man trying to change the world for the good. If your black, white, purple,blue believe in Jesus or believe in Islam. If your religion makes you a better person I'm all for it.
mukepitt1234 1 year ago
I think adolf hitler will be seen as a myth 2000 years from now and i dont even think we will be lexured about him in school anymore at that time am i right?
heavymusic1scool 1 year ago
IF WE ALL....COULD JUST "DO THE 2"...MATT..22-34-40
WHAT A PLACE THIS COULD BE.
bakersfieldmusicnow 1 year ago
@bakersfieldmusicnow Amen to that!
rockeytheguru 1 year ago
Faggot at 10:30 forgets that most critics have been "refuted" by simply killing them and silencing their works..
Rawbdog 1 year ago
So many ppl reject JESUS for reasons, the real reasons for rejecting JESUS was given by JESUS himself --- these people do not want to follow the correct path.
Ppl blame the old testament for violence, when JESUS said all the prophets and the laws refers to me and commanded us to "Love others as yourself and worship god with all ur heart and mind" --- What is wrong with Jesus' commandments????
ksebasti100 1 year ago
@ksebasti100 What is wrong is within you, your heart. Jesus is the ONLY truth. Sooner or later everyone believe, everyone will believe. Mark my words.
Jesus Himself said, "whoever has will, will be given more. Whoever doesn't whatever will he has will be taken away". Try to read the bible, may God bless you.
rockeytheguru 1 year ago
Josephus or none of them could have existed, because the letter j' wasnt around at that time..
MADONKEMET 2 years ago
Also the Bible is indigenous to the middle east, if we're to believe the bible a flood wiped out the world and only Noah and family remained yet there are still indigenous peoples of south america, australia, china etc lol
Religion is man made
MegaJay79 2 years ago
@MegaJay79 yes religion is man made But relationship with Jesus is not
fryce01 1 year ago
I always hear, JESUS DIED FOR YOU, FOR YOUR SINS, have you ever thought about how many millions of people have died for Jesus, people who suffered through torment and persicution to the death defending their belief in him and in God, so I think maybe Jesus should worship those people, why would God want to be such a control freak anyways, it just doesn't make sense at all and it subjects people to blind acceptance of authority, just another political tool among many others, just my opinion
abird1111 2 years ago
@abird1111 well Jesus was a sinless man and only and man without sin, Jesus, can die for the sinners...a sinful man (which all of us are as well as the people who died for the name of Christ) cannot die for anyone else only for their own sins...
fryce01 1 year ago
To say that there are suppressed manuscripts ,there must be some kind of proof.
Do you have any?
It also assumes that the Vatican had something to do with the publication of the DSS.
Actually, they did not. Or do you have proof they were somehow secretly involved?
jcr4runner 2 years ago
Watch the doc 'who was Jesus?' it has some evidence. Apparently the Vatican has suppressed manuscripts.
MegaJay79 2 years ago
A video on YouTube making a claim is not "evidence."
Evidence would be a manuscript that came to light after several years that was suppressed. There are non. All of the Dead Sea Scrolls are published. They were cataloged when found -- prior to being translated -- and the Vatican never had any control over the scrolls.
Yes, there are a few absurd books out there claiming this, but there is no evidence -- only evidence to the contrary.
jcr4runner 2 years ago
But there is the Gospel of Thomas which is a far earlier document than the ones found in the new testament but then it didn't fulfill the romans means
MegaJay79 2 years ago
No, the Gospel of Thomas is late second century, at least 100 years after the Gospels.
There are a few nuts with an agenda such as Crossan and Pagels who reverse this, but they have no documentrary evidence and no external testmony.
None.
It's just their opinion.
Meanwhile, we DO have documentary evidence and lots of external testimony that places the four gospels in the first century.
jcr4runner 2 years ago
Well a certain amount of theologists place the GOT at AD60 which would be before the others.
The New Testament was changed and rewritten as Paul strengthened his church, the corinthians being written to explain new theologies for eg.
This has been common for much of the Bible as the old testament also had at least three authors and was rewritten many times
MegaJay79 2 years ago
A certain amount -- meaning a small amount who have a blatant agenda to rewrite the historical time-line to fit their thesis.
Even liberals such as Bart Ehrman don't put the Gnostic Gospels prior to the canonical Gospels.
jcr4runner 2 years ago
There is some misunderstanding because two versions of the Gospel of Thomas were found, the original text in arabic is from 30-50 CE which is far earlier than the scriptures of the new testament. The one which is later is a greek translation.
MegaJay79 2 years ago
It's Coptic, not Arabic. The later copy is Greek.
That's a tell-all. Over half of the Gospel of Thomas is just quotations from the sayings of Jesus from all four of the canonical Gospels. It even has a few references to Paul's writings. That tells us it is late.
First, the EARLIER copy is from Egypt, second there are no other Christian writings prior to the second century that quote so much of the New Testament.
jcr4runner 2 years ago
@jcr4runner You make several false assertions. 1. Only some of the sayings in the GOT are in the 4G. 2. Most scholars believe it predates the four gospels. 3. GOT is about finding the inner light, which contradicts the teachings of Paul and the 4G. This would explain its exclusion from the NT, and its attractiveness to Gnostics of the time.
Pikestance 1 year ago
Scholars think that Thomas is a later edition of Tatian's Diatessarron (c.175 AD - a harmony of the four Gospels written in the Syriac language) and the clincher is that the Greek copy even retains some of the Syriac forms and arrangements.
The earliest Thomas could possibly be is late second century.
jcr4runner 2 years ago
@jcr4runner Well I have heard differently but take your point. Whatever the reasoning the Bible was written by man and we shouldn't take too much stock in it, its full of genocide, condones slavery, is sexiest and bigoted because it was written a long time ago.
MegaJay79 2 years ago
@MegaJay79 We shouldn't take too much stock in it -- Unless of course it is the "Gospel of Thomas" :-)
None of the Gnostic Gospels are entitled "According to ..." as the four Gospels are. They are entitled "The Gospel of ... Thomas, Judas, Philip, etc."
The idea here is that one of the disciples received "secret knowledge" and passed it down to the enlightened few -- the Gnostics. No Gnostic Gospel claims to have been composed in the first century by a disciple of Jesus.
jcr4runner 2 years ago
@MegaJay79 No Gnostic Gospel is quoted or mentioned prior to about 155 AD. All four canonical Gospels are quoted in other writings of the first century (the Didache, Clement) including cross quotes in NT books themselves.
jcr4runner 2 years ago
If you think there are no "proofs" -- it dos not mean these were added later on.
Every record of Jesus -- including those by Jews and pagans -- spoke of His ability to do wonders. They also universally record that he claimed to be God's only Son.
These are the "proofs." There is no evidence that they were added later (if so, name some evidence!) There is only evidence that they originated with the words and acts of Jesus himself.
Whether you accept the proofs is another story.
jcr4runner 2 years ago
So the point of Christianity is to worship Jesus? Jesus should do something to deserve worship. Why didn't he rid the world of polio, small pox, locusts, etc.? Jesus does nothing for me, so why should I worship him? His only function is to demand worship of himself.
If he's all-powerful, why does Jesus need worship? Is he insecure or egotistical? Worshiping Jesus is simple-minded and pointless. He acts like he doesn't exist -- and yet he condemns those who doubt his existence. How senseless.
FrankCoffman 2 years ago
I've become more interested in things that were not human-made, including myself, & the creator of everything is worthy of recognition. It's a world that is not how it was meant to be; disease and problems will always be with us. Jesus worshipped God; he doesn't tell us to worship himself. Nobody comes to the Father but through Christ. God revealed Himself many times in the past & even then, many rejected. It was already finished.
GratedTopping 2 years ago
If God revealed Himself more 'visibly' these days people would still reject, like then, and 2000 days down the road, people would be the same: not believing God already revealed himself and demanding proof again. God wants worship because He is a jealous God, but it's not the same as human jealousy that is prideful/out of cruelty. It's a holy jealousy. He is the creator of everything and is unique, deserving of praise. Recognizing God is humbling.
GratedTopping 2 years ago
Comment removed
GratedTopping 2 years ago
Ever seen Kill Bill part 2? Remember Pai Mei?
Something like that.
mistertakeda 2 years ago
@FrankCoffman How sad of you to deny Jesus but hopefully you find the truth and fall inlove with Jesus he loves you although you dnt love or know Him...Get to know Jesus what do you have to lose, but you gain eternal life with Him if you believe in Him...may the Lord bless you...
fryce01 1 year ago
are you a sun worshipper ?
overmuch1 2 years ago
Great video. And lets not forget almost all the apostles died horrible deaths. I don't think they would have been willing to die so horriby if they know Jesus is not God or doesn't exist. And they would know if He isn't God or if he doesnt exist, for they eat and lived and went around with Jesus for quite some time.
So if Jesus is not God, the apostles would know and would not have been willing to die so horribly.
If Jesus is a myth, the apostles would know.
So Jesus is GOD!
Fakeslimshady 2 years ago
Thanks for posting this.
Jer0mmel 2 years ago
This is nonsense. Even the Catholic church admits that Flavius Josephus mention of Jesus is a rank forgery as are all the others including Pliny the Younger, Suetonius and Tacitus et al. This is nothing more than yet another vain attempt by apologists to make history out of myth. Christianity has done it's absolute best to try to keep people in the dark. The only reason that churches can get away with this in this day and age is because the faithful are totally ignorant of the real truth.
certus2306 2 years ago
Really? Can you provide citations that show that the Catholic Church admits these are ALL forgeries?
The Catholic Encyclopedia is objective about the TF:
"Attempts have been made to refute the objections brought against this passage both for internal and external reasons, but the difficulty has not been definitively settled."
Can you name a SINGLE scholar today who says that the Tacitus passage is a fraud?
Really. Can you just name one?
jcr4runner 2 years ago
Pontius Pilate's rank was prefect when he was in Judea.[10] The Tacitus passage mistakenly calls Pilate a procurator, an error also made in translations of a passage by Josephus.[11] (However, Josephus wrote in Greek and never used the Latin term.) It should be noted that after Herod Agrippa's death in AD 44, when Judea reverted to direct Roman rule, Claudius gave procurators control over Judea
girlphriend 2 years ago
Nice cut and paste job. What's your point?
jcr4runner 2 years ago
shall i continue?
girlphriend 2 years ago
"I"?
Meaning shall "I" continue to copy and paste from another source?
jcr4runner 2 years ago
well i didnt think you just wanted MY opinion. you asked for scholars that disagreed. i provided that. don't ask for it if you don't want it :-)
girlphriend 2 years ago
You are just confused as to what you are saying.
Words actually mean things.
When you say that Tacitus is a "forgery," that means that someone other than Tacitus forged his works.
The Catholic church doesn't "admit this" -- they might say that Tacitus was in error on some points.
Yes, he made mistakes. No news there.
It doesn't mean the entire work of Tacitus was a "forgery" -- or that the account of Christ and the Christians was a forgery.
jcr4runner 2 years ago
Just the parts that are imprtant to your case! And how much of the Dead Sea scrolls have they NOT made public? wonder why?
girlphriend 2 years ago
This is from the recently completed DVD version with host Eric Holmberg.
"The Real Jesus: A Defense of the Historicity and Divinity of Christ" is newly expanded to include over an hour of additional materials. The total running time is now two and a half hours.
The first five parts are on YOU TUBE now. I may post parts 6-10 later on.
Order the DVD with all ten parts plus a bonus feature by clicking on the URL link underneath "ABOUT THIS VIDEO."
jcr4runner 4 years ago