we canadians can make a engine to reach mach 10 if we wanted to, we are the most innovative people of the planet ,and the arrow showed what we could do and we can do it again, but only the arrow would be like a bush plane to what we can build now
Why all the damned Anti-Canadian bias, guys...I know the U.S. wants to claim it designed and built every good aircraft of the 20th and 21st centuries, but, seriously, check your damned facts. And learn how NOT to flame.
This aircraft is highly over-hyped my friend. I'm sorry, but this movie was just a propganda platform similar to a Hollywood film. Check out the video in favorites called: Canadians, the Avro was a Failure". Now, I don't like the title of the video, but one of your own professors refutes the claims made by Caandians about this aircraft. I've never heard of even one American claim we designed it. The US already had the Delta Dart (105) and the YF-12 was in the works.
@MetaliCanuck Bla Bla Bla listen to you, you post on her threatening to come to peoples houses and beat them up - Are you a cave man? I defeated you completely in logic and all you have is threats that you fail to make good on. I saw your pictures and you do look like a real meat head. As for IP, again bla bla bla more bullshit from stupid as shit meat-head. Funny how you chicken out like the white bitch that you are when I ask you to post my IP. What a dumb piece of shit you are.
@MetaliCanuck Hey shit for brains "i already" should be "I already" and "dont' should be "don't" in addition to the hordes of other BASIC grammar mistakes you made on YT. You a grown adult and yet the most basic and simple grammar rules elude you. Nice one shit head,
@MetaliCanuck Nice one shit for brains. High tail out of here with out even having the nerve to respond to me directly - It took you a WHOPPING month to show your face on here - Again as I point out, you still then did not have the nerve to respond to me. Nice one fucktard
@OBSysteme There were certainly other factors in the cancellation, but it's now a matter of record that one of those factors was pressure from the US for Canada to dump the Arrow and extend the US missile shoeld northwards instead. Canada lost its sovreignty and its advanced combat aircraft building capabilities because of this, and it never recovered. I for one think that was a huge mistake.
@OBSysteme: The USA had no intention of purchasing CF-105's, although they did follow the program with interest & assisted with some of the development.
@raynus1 sorry fuckhead unlike you i have a job and was at work when i replied to this, its called small buttons on a cell phone rehab, your still a looser who self admitingly trys to debunk myths on youtube, are you ever just a corny pathetic asshat.
@MetaliCanuck: Suggest you check your dictionary. Buffoon is a word, not an acronym or slang. Multiple definitions, but essentially 'A rude or vulgar person. A fool'. Fitting, isn't it? The more you post, the more obvious it becomes that you're a poseur.
@raynus1 have you ever heard of dictionaries addding slang words that werent words to begin with? your a complete idiot, buffoon is "slang" dipshit, relook the word up and look at its history, and btw its poser moron, now this is the last time ill reply to some jealous little fuck who needs a life.
@MetaliCanuck: LOL!!! You really are a dimwit. Yes, I'm SO jealous of a brash wannabe jet-jockey who thinks 'buffoon' is slang and can't differentiate between 'poser' and 'poseur'. You're a hyper-patriotic Canadian dumb-dumb with a foul vocabulary and unbelievably poor spelling. Now PFO and enjoy your Christmas. Really, man.
@raynus1 Raymond i suggest you shut your fucking trap before i get some friends who I know with the rcmp as internet security analysts to pin point your address and i come put you through a pretzel big guy. you seriously have no clue who the hell your talking to, i could break you in half bud promise not a threat now im going to block your ass so i dont need to delve through your drivel anymore. just try me fucker
@MetaliCanuck: Go right ahead, you pugnacious little asshat. The RCMP will be far more interested in your threats than in my banter. Now have a merry Christmas, lunatic.
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@MetaliCanuck You issue an indirect death threat against someone. You indicate you work for Canadian Special Forces Command, which I think is a lie, but assuming you are right, I think they may take interest your threats to Canadian Civilians, the very people you swore to protect. Not to mention your threat to use RCMP resources in an illegal manner. Try it to Raynus and one thing is for sure, he will walk away from this a Millionaire after he sues you, the Canadian Armed Forces, and the RCMP
@ShayisWY to bad your a moron and didnt take my info serious, you are the SAME guy as I had both your and Raynuses IPS and DNS's traced. I suggest you give it a rest moron before you lose a battle you'll never win. Fucking Imbecile.
@MetaliCanuck You are lying sack of shit. You are just upset you lost a battle to raynus1 and caught you lying so deal with it. I promise I know a lot more about you than you do about me. July 12th ring a bell Clint? You think lying your ass off and making threats against me and Raynus is going to do anything to deter me from responding to me and calling you out on your BS. I dare you.... infact I challenge you to make good on your threats as again you are lying your ass off Clint
@ShayisWY Your too stupid to understand that any reply sent through youtu8be is sent directly to a email account were I can trace #s, straight retard now go get a life.
@MetaliCanuck If you had any idea of how TCP/IP and packet switching you would know how stupid your claim that you know my address and name. Please do enlighten me idiot and do post here what my name is and IP address is. Better yet why don't you have the balls to show up at my door. Push me Clint and your information will be forwarded CANSOFCOM, not like you work there - regardless it is illegal impersonate them. The fact you resort to such physical threats is very telling
@MetaliCanuck Whats hilarious is you say you have friends who work in the RCMP as internet security analysts and the proceed to say you have a secret email that YT sends you all my personal information to. So this means you are also able to view YT Server Log Files as there is no other way to obtain this information. As you have access to YT server log files you should in turn be able to see my pasword information. Log in to my YT account and change my background - You have my permission
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@MetaliCanuck Failure to post my name, address on YT, and change my channel background within 24 hours is confirmation and an indirect addmission you're a liar. People like you are all over NET with the mentality if you act big and issue phyisical threats, you can get what you want. You guys resort this tactic as you have nothing else or are overcompensating for lack something else....or covering a lie. Well you can prove me wrong and post my information on here. ....
@ShayisWY your simply a retard and dont knw shit about the internet, running and tracing the dns and ip i did all by myself you retard, it doesnt pin point a postal address fuckhead
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@MetaliCanuck In your words "pin point your address" and you even went as far to say you would visit him and physically assault Raynus. Your words not mine. So since you can get my address, why not get it and post it on here? Unless of course you BSing...well we all know you are. All messages through YT go through sjl-smtp3DottsjlDottyoutubeDott com and all show as the same IP Dipshit. But again enlighten me and please tell me what my IP and ISP is
@ShayisWY you really are a dense person. Listen arsehole I said IF I got people I knew to trace you they could pin point your address , its too bad you cant read proper english. Secondly You and Raynus are the same person, I am not stupid asshat, i just have a career and a life unlike your self so I don't need to be bothered with some person whos been a looser all his fucking life and needs some fucking pussy which he'll never get, now unless you wish to grow some fucking balls , fuck off bud
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@MetaliCanuck In your words "pin point your address" either you are liar or are a coward. I bet you are both. You can trace IP's too stupid to realize YT responses go through sjl-smtp3DottsjlDottyoutubeDott com. If you can go through this to get IP's this also means you have access to server logs. Funny how you cannot note my ISP, IP, among others.
@ShayisWY secondly blocked raynus also before his trivel started, just like i blocked you before you gave me a lawsuit threat you little cumwad, you probably couldnt afford a fucking lawyer in the first place being on welfare and all so i blocked raynuses gay ass also before the drivel, your too stupid to see that. and again grow some balls you fucking taint.
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@MetaliCanuck Yes I have noted that if you make any attempt to act good on your threats of physically assaulting me or Raynus then I will make good on that threat. But again not like you have any ability to track us or anythings.
@ShayisWY its funny how i was looking at a video the other days of the TOIP 100 TROLLERS on youtube and your name was on the list, dont worry i addes RAYNUS aka ANUS
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@MetaliCanuck You are just upset that Raynus and I called you out on your BS. You figure that if you can rants scream and issue physical threats, you can somehow make yourself right. LOL yeah right.
Top 100 trolls - yes citing a non existent video sure makes you right about everything you say idiot. Let me also guess you are dumb enough to believe Canada actually discovered insulin and that we are economically superior to the US or that we have better health care. Run a long little child
@ShayisWY go ahead and contact the rcmp since i already made a tthreat, i promise you this youll regret it bud. try me you dumb sack of shit. enough said just do what you said you would , i am not going to continue to argue any facts with you, im waiting bud. well see how much trouboe you get this poor clint guy in since your investigative skills suck so bad lol dumass you fell for that trap moron
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@MetaliCanuck "pin point your address" so what is my address? Since you state you have my IP, What is it? What is my ISP? What’s funny is that you say you are not Clint and yet direct people to your YT page from a few different forums. Ray caught you lying multiple times as I have I…hence "pin point your address". BTW retard I see your grammar and spelling skills are that of a 6 year old. You cannot even formulate a single gramatically correct sentence, nor are you able to complete a sentence
Tthreat > threat youll > you’ll enough> Enough im > I’m well > we’ll trouboe > trouble
Dumass > dumbass
In addition to the hordes of other mistakes, You are a fucking idiot enough said. Let me guess you are also stupid enough to believe Canada won the war of 1812? Like I said you want to me sue you so show up at my house as you said "pin point your address" and lets see who has more balls chicken shit.
@ShayisWY SAD SAD SAD i knew you just couldnt let it go retard, this is the last time Ill ever visit this thread, keep replying and make yourself look like an ass to all the others watching hermaphrodite
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@MetaliCanuck I have also taken the time to collect information about you. You foolishly have a user name that links you to other social media sites and others that detail information about you. I will not use this information in no negative way whatsoever. But if you even attempt to make good on this threat, I will forward Raynus1, the people you claim to work for, and the RCMP your information as well as screen shots so the police catches your ass. What do you think about that Clint?
F-16's were built in Fort Worth, Texas and F-15's were built in St. Louis Missouri. Last I checked, those cities were south of the 49th. Both aircraft were exclusively designed by US aerospace firms, regardless of foreign nationals who might be in their employ. Canadian subcontractors supplied things like light bulbs, hula dancers and cigarette lighters. I amazed how juvenile Canadians try to shoehorn their way into all of the great accomplishments made by the USA...pathetic, really.
@raynus1 your a fucking tool, my grandfather works at Nasa to this day, was involved in the F15 and F18 design concept. your probably one of those small town small mind kind of people. Get the fuck over your the USA is the greatest shit ever while the country falls apart, your country borrowed money from China, that makes you a fucking hipocrite on all your forefathers beliefs etc...
Question: Your earlier post suggested that Grandfather was involved with the F-15 and F-16 programs...now it's the F-15 and F-18. So, which is it? McDonnell Douglas, General Dynamics...or Northrop? (not that it really matters).
This kind of fuselage would have had a great development potential, like France's long-lived Mirage. Replacing the delta wing with a swing-wing and a conventional tail like Mirage-G, or with a low delta and a pair of canards in the front... It was so advanced for the 1950's. I really don't understand why cancel an aircraft that has almost reached production stage, so much money thrown in the wind...
my uncle was in the Canadian airforce when these planes flew and he worked closely with them and the people on the ground around them. many years later before he died I showed him pictures of them online and he burst into tears thinking about these beautiful planes and his friends that he'd worked with around them. he said it was a dam shame what they did to that plane and Avro.
Damn. I'm not even mad with Deif for what he did. I'm disaponted. In this one swift move he essensally destroyed Canada's aircraft, and military industry. I wish I could have seen those Huge gleaming works of art thundering across Canada's North. Its a real shame it had to end this way...
No opposition members apposed the cancellation of the Arrow when annouced. They actually all agreed on dropping this 400 million dollar money pit. There were already fighters in use that could outrun and outmanouver the Arrow. We got 66 CF-101's for less than the Arrow had already cost us. Not a single miltary pilot or tech that I have talked to wishes that we would have gotten the Arrow. The Arrow would have been shot to shreds in a real life fight and had too short of a range for our needs.
This makes me cry everytime. The Arrow should have gone into production, should still be here. But no Diefenbaker listened to that asshat Eisenhower and decided to cxl the damn thing. Then to try a rid the evidence of it`s existence tried to cover it all up. FUCK YOU DIEFENBAKER, may you rot in fucking hell.
@snake2006 I agree with you it would have put canada on the map as a military power and builder had they had the balls to tell the US to shove it up their asses and kept up with the avro areo. our Gov. was and still is weak and should have never let this happen to a canadian company that was pioneering as avro was.
The RCAF wanted an RCA/Honeywell/Victor fire control system used with Sparrow II missiles. This too was dropped.
Had the Arrow gone into production, it (initially) would've used a Hughes MX-1179 system with AIM-4 Falcon missiles and (probably) Douglas AIR-2 Genies.
How is it the grand-pappy of the the F-15? The Avro was a long range interceptor and the F-15 is a fighter. (also much of the tech came from the U.K.)
the technology the Avro possesed has no bearing on this subject, the fact is, the Arrow was superior at the time, the U.S. obviously took many design features and incorporated it into the F-4, F-15, even certain common physical traits are apparent. thus the grand pappy of the F-15 ... or F-4.
UNSOF. The core technology the Avro possesed has every bearing on this subject as much of it came from the U.K. and Hawker Sidelly Co. The F-15 is a tactical fighter jet and bears no resemblance to the Arro which was a long range interceptor. Further more, this film is nothing than a "pro-Canada" propaganda film and can be taken about as seriously as any of the "Rocky' movies. Not even the test pilot for this aircraft was Canadian. Janusz Zurakowski was in fact from Poland.
How did i know it would be a American giving a -2 rating and a post down grading a proud moment.#1. Janusz Żurakowski was born to Polish parents in 1914 in Ryzawka,
1940 to 1952 he became a Britsh citizen and at the time canada was govered by her Royal Majesty and was a subject which doesn't matter cause he and his family moved her in 1952 and was a full Canadian citizen BEFORE flying the Arrow let me guess your FULL AMERICAN your family watched the mayflower roll in.
What about NASA? Any foreigners working in that organization became "Americans", but to credit them under the title "American" is a bit misleading. Also, my comment was directed at all the maple-leaf waving idiots who think Avro engineers launched the American space program, or the ones who think the Avro "made the castle run in less than 12 parsects". (and yes I know some of the Avro engineers went to work for NASA following the conclusion of the Avro, so calm down.)
@JohnQRandom John your clueless, all those avvro aero techs were sucked up by Nasa at Dryden, your beloved fighter jets like the f14,15,16, f18 were all built by americans and canadians, learn the facts.
Wrong. There is no such thing as a "braindrain" from Canada to the US. To get a "clue" as to how unsuccessful the Avro Arrow was (which had PLENTY of British engineers including the the "cheif engineer" and the "cheif designer") simply see the video called: "Canadians, the Avro Arrow was a failure" right here on youtube. Canadians did not build the US airforce, and if you think they did then provide a source that supports your bullshit claim.
Furthermore, it was Wernher Von Braun and his entire team of engineers who launched NASA. The Nazis also launched the Russian space program, and all of this was done during a time when Canada's population and engineer corps was pathetically small. This film is FILLED with inaccuracies, and was made to make Canadians believe that they played an important role with NASA and the American military. I'm afraid it's you who needs to get their facts straight my friend.
@JohnQRandom sure whatever you say bud i know plenty of full blooded canucks working for nasa, your really a clueless read everything you know kinda guy i guess. I guess I know nothing about the f18 although i flew it for 8 years, give me a break.
@MetaliCanuck: Canadian aerospace subcontractors and the sub-components they manufacture for companies like GD, Boeing, LM, and NG exist mainly because of Diefenbaker signing Canada into the Shared Development Program following cancellation of the CF-105. Hey, I think the CF-105 was a good design and held great promise...too bad Avro management dropped the ball (like they did with the C-102 Jetliner). I just refuse to buy into the myth that the USA had anything to do with its demise.
You know "plenty of full blooded Canucks working for NASA". You see metalicanuck, that's the wonderful thing about youtube, we can all be whomever we want. Canada's engineering corps is very small, the reason points to your SMALL POPULATION, currently at a mere 33 million, and was even smaller 20, 30, and 40 years ago. Don't tell me that Canadians have played a huge role in building the US airforce or NASA. The US and Russia can both thank German tech for launching their rocketry.
Even the very "biased" article: "The Avro Engineers who went to the US" claims '31' Avro engineers found employment with Nasa following the cancelation of the Arrow. From there (according to the article) helped the US get to the moon, an accomplishment that many Canadians (like yourself I'm sure) claim never really happened. Even I'm skeptical of it, but the bottom line is not that Canadians "can't", it's that you are small in numbers.
@JohnQRandom No need to be so harsh. and i think a Canadian would know Canad's history better than anyone else. And, technically, the scientists in NASA weren't Nazi, just German. And just because an industy is small doesn't mean it's incapable, so you need to get YOUR facts straight.
The scientists taken out of Germany renounced their Nazi identity once they began working to NASA, prior to that they were the loyal backbone of the Nazi machine, thus making them "Nazis". Also, go to the video in my favorites box "Canadians, the Avro was a failure." There one of your own professors refutes the is film. The crap edited on Wiki is also false, I've changed in persoanally many times but Canadians seem to edit it back daily.
@JohnQRandom The Arrow was able to preform as well as the specs on Wikipedia say. And, no offence, but i trust the several NGO and Gov't documentaries on the Arrow more than some seemingly pissed foriegner. The Arrow was a failure ONLY in cost. Perhaps find some of Yan Zurakowski's comments on the '105?
While the Arrow is an interesting aircraft It was larger (2X), expensive and hardly more capable than the single engine F106 Delta Dart. And the Delta dart flew in 1956 and the Arrow in 1958. They say that the Arrow might have been able to approach mach 3...but that was never proven. Both aircraft were designed to fire Falcon & Genie missiles but were not suitable for missions other than interceptor duty. And we were entering the era of multi-role aircraft anyway.
The fact that the Soviet space program had developed ICBMs that they were beginning warheads on was another major factor. It seems Avro would have been better off keeping the engines and developing a fighter jet. In any case, i think horrible how this film convinces Canadians (though not outright) that the Arrow was canceled by the American government. It's simply not true.
ICBM's put the Russian Bomber force on the far back burner. And those big Tu-95's never had the jamming gear or the Quail decoys our 52's had and would have been splashed in droves by F102's, F101's and F106's before they made if half way across Canada. A mach 3 interceptor is needed only if the threat is a mach 3 bomber. And even then Nike Hercules would have blasted those (100kt) . We can just chalk the Anti American crap up as Canadian sour grapes.
@MetaliCanuck:Good grief. Giving Canadians credit for indigenous US designs like the Tomcat, Eagle, Fighting Falcon and Hornet is farcical. Grumman (F-14) was a pioneer in naval jet aviation, predating the arrow. McDonnell Douglas produced the excellent F-4 Phantom II at exactly the same time as the CF-105, and General Dynamics (F-16/Formerly Convair) had a stable full of aircraft and designs that exceeded anything Avro had on the board. Keep it real...not CBC.
Hmmmm...The F-4 Phantom flew on 27 May 1958 and the Arrow flew on 25 March 1958. Man those McDonnell Douglas hombres did some fast copy-catting sport!!
Sorry, but that just isn't true. A lot of American projects *themselves* were killed due to a misguided belief in the late 1950's that the manned fighter would end and be replaced by missiles like the BOMARC. There was also a (partially true) belief that the interceptor's days were over. The USA cancelled the XF-103, XF-108 and YF-12 (proposed fighter version of SR-71) as well. All of which would have been amazing aircraft, as was the Avro Arrow.
@NickB1967 The US procurement system was designed to include the cancellation of projects, witness most recently the YF-23 and the X-32. the XF-103 was canceled because it didn't have a suitable engine, while the XF-108 concept of a super long range escort fighter was found to be flawed - neither were canceled because of a preference for missiles or because a foreign government promised that the US would be showered with radiocative debris from Bomarc missiles, as the US did to the Canadians.
@WinchesterRanger: Well, of course the US procurement system has competitors. The YF-23 was the competitor to the F-22, and just was not as good. Nothing wrong with that. And if the XF-108 was cancelled because the concept of a long-range escort interceptor was flawed, what does that say for the Arrow?
@NickB1967 It says nothing for the Arrow - that's the point, because the Arrow was an interceptor, and the Americans were still developing numerous interceptor type aircraft at a time when you claim that all such research was being cancelled in favor of missiles - which it wasn't. That's the point, get it?
@WinchesterRanger: Wrong. What interceptors the USA had at the time of the Arrow cancellation were *already* developed. Any further improvements in them--like the rather silly attempt to make the F-104 Starfighter into a tactical fighter--were minor improvements on a design already finished. Any brand new developments in interceptors--like the YF-12, XF-103, etc., were axed, just as the Arrow was. The F-106 barely made it past the cutoff, lucky to be just barely finished in development stage.
@NickB1967 What you're saying simply isn't true. The F-106 wasn't "developed", ironically it actually entered service the same year as the Arrow was cancelled and would go on to serve for almost 30 years, the YF-12 wouldn't even fly for another 4 years and was in active development in 1959. US interceptors were very much alive during this period, and those that made it through development would continue to serve for decades. Is this your definition of the US "dumping interceptors" in the 50s?
@WinchesterRanger Yes, it entered service, which means it was developed. It barely made it that far, and the subsequent F-108 and F-12 programs wouldn't get nearly that far. The basic concept had just lost most support.
@LeopoldPlumtree The F-106 underwent continual improvements up to 1972, i.e. it was still being developed in its role as an interceptor for another 13 years post-introduction, the YF-12 was in active development in 1959 and we are being asked to believe that all interceptor development was dead, and as I have demonstrated that assertion simply isn't true. To the original point, people need only read the book on the history of the Arrow to see that US interference in the project was very real.
@WinchesterRanger F-106 production ended in 1960, so any modifications after that point were to already existing aircraft. The F-106 program predated the Arrow and barely escaped the cancellation that befell subsequent aircraft of the type. YF-12 development continued a little longer, but both it and the F-108 were chopped. If interceptor development wasn't dead, it was certainly in the final stages of dying, so the point remains.
@LeopoldPlumtree You're missing the point, the US introduced the F-106 in 1959 and it served them well until 1988, it was the US Arrow, and they didn't "dump it" they developed the aircraft and kept it in service for almost 30 years. Don't forget that other nations developed interceptors long after this - the best comparison is not the US, it's the Soviets, who also had vast areas of border to protect. They maintain their Mig 31 fleet for that purpose to this day - the concept was not flawed.
@WinchesterRanger I think you're missing the point, which is that the F-106 program predated the Arrow by a couple years and barely made it to production itself. Introduced in 1959 means years of flight testing were already in the bag and decisions about moving forward had already been made. The Arrow was still years from that point, and timing was not on its side as it was thought the concept was outdated, wisely or not. After that point, the US acted similarly and chopped the F-108/F-12.
@WinchesterRanger: The F-106 was a souped up F-102; the design work on the F-102 had been completed before the Arrow began. Again, I agree that it was unwise to cancel the Arrow, and other interceptors, because even with missile technology, the interceptor's days were not completely over. Still, when even the F-104 was modified to be a tactical fighter bomber (what a truly silly idea), it was clear that an interceptor-only aircraft was not going to cut it anymore in a costly world.
@WinchesterRanger: Again, what interference? The various written media which I have studied on the CF-105 program clearly suggests otherwise. The USA provided engines, test aircraft, weapons, guidance systems, and wind tunnels for Avro. Hardly interference. Eisenhower had his own advanced interceptor programs chopped, one of which was a design much, much, more advanced than the CF-105.
No, I'm telling you that there were many Brits involved with the construction of this aircraft, and much of the core technology came from Hawker Siddeley. "The Arrow is 98% Canadian." You Canadians are funny when it comes to your percentages. So tell me, what percentge of the Stanley Cup Champ Anaheim Ducks are Canadian? You should know this.
It is not pleasure to live your home and go to foreign country and prove for all your life that you are good.What is it all about? Yes Canada has great and proud people,but theye are not from Mars
the russians paid canada off to stop the arrow so we wouldnt have kick ass planes buzzing the pole... afterall does canada really want to be known for arming the world with fighter planes? i think we should stick to good bush planes.
very good richard(dick)what does the raptor have to do with this? I think u missed my point. the US had their dirty little fingers in our pie(like usual)
Still the greatest aircraft in the world, the recipients of our technology should be grateful...they know who they are. Pssst...there just south of here.
Pssss, I have a little secret for you, THE AVRO ARROW WAS DESIGNED BY AN ENGLISHMAN "JAMES C. FLOYD"!!!! As were many of the other engineers from the U.K. Not even the test pilot was Canadian, he was from Poland. Also, if you want awsome technology try searching "F-22 Raptor", or SU-37, or are you going to take credit for those jets aswell?
pssst, richardblane without technology that developed by the arrow team including the Iroquois engines designed for the arrow mach 2 there may not be an fa/22 and besides it was a Canadian jet, built by a contractor that yes was British but who cares
psss, naturallybornninja, both the US and Russia can credit the Germams for their early rocket technology and jet engines, not Canada. Every hear of "Wernher Von Braun" little man?
Sorry, but that just isn't true. A lot of American projects *themselves* were killed due to a misguided belief in the late 1950's that the manned fighter would end and be replaced by missiles like the BOMARC. There was also a (partially true) belief that the interceptor's days were over. The USA cancelled the XF-103, XF-108 and YF-12 (proposed fighter version of SR-71) as well. All of which would have been amazing aircraft, as was the Avro Arrow.
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we canadians can make a engine to reach mach 10 if we wanted to, we are the most innovative people of the planet ,and the arrow showed what we could do and we can do it again, but only the arrow would be like a bush plane to what we can build now
terrencetjj69 3 weeks ago
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terrencetjj69 3 weeks ago
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williamandsusie 8 months ago
Why all the damned Anti-Canadian bias, guys...I know the U.S. wants to claim it designed and built every good aircraft of the 20th and 21st centuries, but, seriously, check your damned facts. And learn how NOT to flame.
TheLordofError 8 months ago
@TheLordofError
This aircraft is highly over-hyped my friend. I'm sorry, but this movie was just a propganda platform similar to a Hollywood film. Check out the video in favorites called: Canadians, the Avro was a Failure". Now, I don't like the title of the video, but one of your own professors refutes the claims made by Caandians about this aircraft. I've never heard of even one American claim we designed it. The US already had the Delta Dart (105) and the YF-12 was in the works.
JohnQRandom 8 months ago
Hey fag so you blocked people from viewing your profile, dont worry i already have your static ip in case toodle loo numbnuts
MetaliCanuck 1 year ago
@MetaliCanuck Bla Bla Bla listen to you, you post on her threatening to come to peoples houses and beat them up - Are you a cave man? I defeated you completely in logic and all you have is threats that you fail to make good on. I saw your pictures and you do look like a real meat head. As for IP, again bla bla bla more bullshit from stupid as shit meat-head. Funny how you chicken out like the white bitch that you are when I ask you to post my IP. What a dumb piece of shit you are.
ShayisWY 11 months ago
@MetaliCanuck Hey shit for brains "i already" should be "I already" and "dont' should be "don't" in addition to the hordes of other BASIC grammar mistakes you made on YT. You a grown adult and yet the most basic and simple grammar rules elude you. Nice one shit head,
ShayisWY 11 months ago
Looks like the little tard finally shut his fucking yap.As i said probably the smartest choice he'll ever make.
MetaliCanuck 1 year ago
@MetaliCanuck Nice one shit for brains. High tail out of here with out even having the nerve to respond to me directly - It took you a WHOPPING month to show your face on here - Again as I point out, you still then did not have the nerve to respond to me. Nice one fucktard
ShayisWY 11 months ago
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MetaliCanuck 1 year ago
@OBSysteme There were certainly other factors in the cancellation, but it's now a matter of record that one of those factors was pressure from the US for Canada to dump the Arrow and extend the US missile shoeld northwards instead. Canada lost its sovreignty and its advanced combat aircraft building capabilities because of this, and it never recovered. I for one think that was a huge mistake.
WinchesterRanger 1 year ago
@OBSysteme: The USA had no intention of purchasing CF-105's, although they did follow the program with interest & assisted with some of the development.
raynus1 1 year ago
Well I'm proud of the fact my Grandfather Jan Zurakowski was tied to this plane!
PinchinFilms 1 year ago
@PinchinFilms
Oh, he used to work for our local company Gloster. He is well famous in our city.
Reichsfuhrer1979 1 year ago
"Grandfather still employed and grandson flew CF-18's for 8 years"
Hmmmm....so for fun, let's say Grandpa is 70-ish and grandson is ~30-ish, which means dad is 50-ish.
Possible I guess, but the numbers seem a little tight.
Sorry... I spend a great deal of time debunking myths.
raynus1 1 year ago
@raynus1 yeah Im in my 30s retard, glad you can add.
MetaliCanuck 1 year ago
@MetaliCanuck: Illiterate buffoon. If you're a former fighter pilot, I'm a former astronaut. Have a wonderful Christmas, pal.
raynus1 1 year ago
@raynus1 sorry fuckhead unlike you i have a job and was at work when i replied to this, its called small buttons on a cell phone rehab, your still a looser who self admitingly trys to debunk myths on youtube, are you ever just a corny pathetic asshat.
MetaliCanuck 1 year ago
@MetaliCanuck : Again, merry Christmas, Hornet driver-wannabee. By the way, it's spelled 'loser'.
raynus1 1 year ago
@raynus1 btw there is no such thing as a BUFFOON, its slang moron, so theres your fucking enlgish lesson smart ass.
MetaliCanuck 1 year ago
@MetaliCanuck: Suggest you check your dictionary. Buffoon is a word, not an acronym or slang. Multiple definitions, but essentially 'A rude or vulgar person. A fool'. Fitting, isn't it? The more you post, the more obvious it becomes that you're a poseur.
raynus1 1 year ago
@raynus1 have you ever heard of dictionaries addding slang words that werent words to begin with? your a complete idiot, buffoon is "slang" dipshit, relook the word up and look at its history, and btw its poser moron, now this is the last time ill reply to some jealous little fuck who needs a life.
MetaliCanuck 1 year ago
@MetaliCanuck: LOL!!! You really are a dimwit. Yes, I'm SO jealous of a brash wannabe jet-jockey who thinks 'buffoon' is slang and can't differentiate between 'poser' and 'poseur'. You're a hyper-patriotic Canadian dumb-dumb with a foul vocabulary and unbelievably poor spelling. Now PFO and enjoy your Christmas. Really, man.
raynus1 1 year ago
@raynus1 Raymond i suggest you shut your fucking trap before i get some friends who I know with the rcmp as internet security analysts to pin point your address and i come put you through a pretzel big guy. you seriously have no clue who the hell your talking to, i could break you in half bud promise not a threat now im going to block your ass so i dont need to delve through your drivel anymore. just try me fucker
MetaliCanuck 1 year ago
@MetaliCanuck: Go right ahead, you pugnacious little asshat. The RCMP will be far more interested in your threats than in my banter. Now have a merry Christmas, lunatic.
raynus1 1 year ago
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@MetaliCanuck You issue an indirect death threat against someone. You indicate you work for Canadian Special Forces Command, which I think is a lie, but assuming you are right, I think they may take interest your threats to Canadian Civilians, the very people you swore to protect. Not to mention your threat to use RCMP resources in an illegal manner. Try it to Raynus and one thing is for sure, he will walk away from this a Millionaire after he sues you, the Canadian Armed Forces, and the RCMP
ShayisWY 1 year ago
@ShayisWY to bad your a moron and didnt take my info serious, you are the SAME guy as I had both your and Raynuses IPS and DNS's traced. I suggest you give it a rest moron before you lose a battle you'll never win. Fucking Imbecile.
MetaliCanuck 1 year ago
@MetaliCanuck You are lying sack of shit. You are just upset you lost a battle to raynus1 and caught you lying so deal with it. I promise I know a lot more about you than you do about me. July 12th ring a bell Clint? You think lying your ass off and making threats against me and Raynus is going to do anything to deter me from responding to me and calling you out on your BS. I dare you.... infact I challenge you to make good on your threats as again you are lying your ass off Clint
ShayisWY 1 year ago
@ShayisWY clint ?retard lol wrong person
MetaliCanuck 1 year ago
@ShayisWY Your too stupid to understand that any reply sent through youtu8be is sent directly to a email account were I can trace #s, straight retard now go get a life.
MetaliCanuck 1 year ago
@MetaliCanuck If you had any idea of how TCP/IP and packet switching you would know how stupid your claim that you know my address and name. Please do enlighten me idiot and do post here what my name is and IP address is. Better yet why don't you have the balls to show up at my door. Push me Clint and your information will be forwarded CANSOFCOM, not like you work there - regardless it is illegal impersonate them. The fact you resort to such physical threats is very telling
ShayisWY 1 year ago
@MetaliCanuck Whats hilarious is you say you have friends who work in the RCMP as internet security analysts and the proceed to say you have a secret email that YT sends you all my personal information to. So this means you are also able to view YT Server Log Files as there is no other way to obtain this information. As you have access to YT server log files you should in turn be able to see my pasword information. Log in to my YT account and change my background - You have my permission
ShayisWY 1 year ago
@ShayisWY the IPS and DNS s were the same were did i say i had your name etc.., you dillusional twerp blocked now go fuck off
MetaliCanuck 1 year ago
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@MetaliCanuck Failure to post my name, address on YT, and change my channel background within 24 hours is confirmation and an indirect addmission you're a liar. People like you are all over NET with the mentality if you act big and issue phyisical threats, you can get what you want. You guys resort this tactic as you have nothing else or are overcompensating for lack something else....or covering a lie. Well you can prove me wrong and post my information on here. ....
ShayisWY 1 year ago
@ShayisWY But I bet $100 in 24hrs I will posting again about you failed to post this information.
ShayisWY 1 year ago
@ShayisWY your simply a retard and dont knw shit about the internet, running and tracing the dns and ip i did all by myself you retard, it doesnt pin point a postal address fuckhead
MetaliCanuck 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
@MetaliCanuck In your words "pin point your address" and you even went as far to say you would visit him and physically assault Raynus. Your words not mine. So since you can get my address, why not get it and post it on here? Unless of course you BSing...well we all know you are. All messages through YT go through sjl-smtp3DottsjlDottyoutubeDott com and all show as the same IP Dipshit. But again enlighten me and please tell me what my IP and ISP is
ShayisWY 1 year ago
@ShayisWY you really are a dense person. Listen arsehole I said IF I got people I knew to trace you they could pin point your address , its too bad you cant read proper english. Secondly You and Raynus are the same person, I am not stupid asshat, i just have a career and a life unlike your self so I don't need to be bothered with some person whos been a looser all his fucking life and needs some fucking pussy which he'll never get, now unless you wish to grow some fucking balls , fuck off bud
MetaliCanuck 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
@MetaliCanuck In your words "pin point your address" either you are liar or are a coward. I bet you are both. You can trace IP's too stupid to realize YT responses go through sjl-smtp3DottsjlDottyoutubeDott com. If you can go through this to get IP's this also means you have access to server logs. Funny how you cannot note my ISP, IP, among others.
ShayisWY 1 year ago
@MetaliCanuck I highlight the fact you can't trace shit and get up and run. Enough said
ShayisWY 1 year ago
@ShayisWY secondly blocked raynus also before his trivel started, just like i blocked you before you gave me a lawsuit threat you little cumwad, you probably couldnt afford a fucking lawyer in the first place being on welfare and all so i blocked raynuses gay ass also before the drivel, your too stupid to see that. and again grow some balls you fucking taint.
MetaliCanuck 1 year ago
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@MetaliCanuck Yes I have noted that if you make any attempt to act good on your threats of physically assaulting me or Raynus then I will make good on that threat. But again not like you have any ability to track us or anythings.
ShayisWY 1 year ago
@ShayisWY its funny how i was looking at a video the other days of the TOIP 100 TROLLERS on youtube and your name was on the list, dont worry i addes RAYNUS aka ANUS
MetaliCanuck 1 year ago
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@MetaliCanuck You are just upset that Raynus and I called you out on your BS. You figure that if you can rants scream and issue physical threats, you can somehow make yourself right. LOL yeah right.
Top 100 trolls - yes citing a non existent video sure makes you right about everything you say idiot. Let me also guess you are dumb enough to believe Canada actually discovered insulin and that we are economically superior to the US or that we have better health care. Run a long little child
ShayisWY 1 year ago
@ShayisWY go ahead and contact the rcmp since i already made a tthreat, i promise you this youll regret it bud. try me you dumb sack of shit. enough said just do what you said you would , i am not going to continue to argue any facts with you, im waiting bud. well see how much trouboe you get this poor clint guy in since your investigative skills suck so bad lol dumass you fell for that trap moron
MetaliCanuck 1 year ago
@MetaliCanuck canada is filled with millions of unsecured wireless accountss unlike the usa, try it bud
MetaliCanuck 1 year ago
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@MetaliCanuck "pin point your address" so what is my address? Since you state you have my IP, What is it? What is my ISP? What’s funny is that you say you are not Clint and yet direct people to your YT page from a few different forums. Ray caught you lying multiple times as I have I…hence "pin point your address". BTW retard I see your grammar and spelling skills are that of a 6 year old. You cannot even formulate a single gramatically correct sentence, nor are you able to complete a sentence
ShayisWY 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
@MetaliCanuck ...without a spelling mistake.
Tthreat > threat youll > you’ll enough> Enough im > I’m well > we’ll trouboe > trouble
Dumass > dumbass
In addition to the hordes of other mistakes, You are a fucking idiot enough said. Let me guess you are also stupid enough to believe Canada won the war of 1812? Like I said you want to me sue you so show up at my house as you said "pin point your address" and lets see who has more balls chicken shit.
ShayisWY 1 year ago
@ShayisWY SAD SAD SAD i knew you just couldnt let it go retard, this is the last time Ill ever visit this thread, keep replying and make yourself look like an ass to all the others watching hermaphrodite
MetaliCanuck 1 year ago
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@MetaliCanuck What is my IP since you claim you have it. Hey look your spelling is slightly better.
ShayisWY 1 year ago
@ShayisWY seems as if his account has been deleted figures
MetaliCanuck 1 year ago
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@MetaliCanuck If you are going to make shit up and lie - at least make it credible.
ShayisWY 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
@MetaliCanuck I have also taken the time to collect information about you. You foolishly have a user name that links you to other social media sites and others that detail information about you. I will not use this information in no negative way whatsoever. But if you even attempt to make good on this threat, I will forward Raynus1, the people you claim to work for, and the RCMP your information as well as screen shots so the police catches your ass. What do you think about that Clint?
ShayisWY 1 year ago
F-16's were built in Fort Worth, Texas and F-15's were built in St. Louis Missouri. Last I checked, those cities were south of the 49th. Both aircraft were exclusively designed by US aerospace firms, regardless of foreign nationals who might be in their employ. Canadian subcontractors supplied things like light bulbs, hula dancers and cigarette lighters. I amazed how juvenile Canadians try to shoehorn their way into all of the great accomplishments made by the USA...pathetic, really.
raynus1 1 year ago
@raynus1 your a fucking tool, my grandfather works at Nasa to this day, was involved in the F15 and F18 design concept. your probably one of those small town small mind kind of people. Get the fuck over your the USA is the greatest shit ever while the country falls apart, your country borrowed money from China, that makes you a fucking hipocrite on all your forefathers beliefs etc...
MetaliCanuck 1 year ago
@MetaliCanuck : HaHa. Nice rant. I'm Canadian, actually.
Question: Your earlier post suggested that Grandfather was involved with the F-15 and F-16 programs...now it's the F-15 and F-18. So, which is it? McDonnell Douglas, General Dynamics...or Northrop? (not that it really matters).
raynus1 1 year ago
@raynus1 design CONCEPT retard read, he was involved with the falcon for something else, you really are a retard and need a life or a job.
MetaliCanuck 1 year ago
Thank you tory rat John Diefenbaker!
ArmandAllegro 1 year ago
The most beautiful and the most powerful plane of his time!
samplepete82 1 year ago
This kind of fuselage would have had a great development potential, like France's long-lived Mirage. Replacing the delta wing with a swing-wing and a conventional tail like Mirage-G, or with a low delta and a pair of canards in the front... It was so advanced for the 1950's. I really don't understand why cancel an aircraft that has almost reached production stage, so much money thrown in the wind...
r8wing 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
The Avro Arrow > you're countries plane ;]
Love4SK 1 year ago
my uncle was in the Canadian airforce when these planes flew and he worked closely with them and the people on the ground around them. many years later before he died I showed him pictures of them online and he burst into tears thinking about these beautiful planes and his friends that he'd worked with around them. he said it was a dam shame what they did to that plane and Avro.
UglyJoe2007 2 years ago
Damn. I'm not even mad with Deif for what he did. I'm disaponted. In this one swift move he essensally destroyed Canada's aircraft, and military industry. I wish I could have seen those Huge gleaming works of art thundering across Canada's North. Its a real shame it had to end this way...
russellrush101 2 years ago
No opposition members apposed the cancellation of the Arrow when annouced. They actually all agreed on dropping this 400 million dollar money pit. There were already fighters in use that could outrun and outmanouver the Arrow. We got 66 CF-101's for less than the Arrow had already cost us. Not a single miltary pilot or tech that I have talked to wishes that we would have gotten the Arrow. The Arrow would have been shot to shreds in a real life fight and had too short of a range for our needs.
banjer4u 2 years ago
This makes me cry everytime. The Arrow should have gone into production, should still be here. But no Diefenbaker listened to that asshat Eisenhower and decided to cxl the damn thing. Then to try a rid the evidence of it`s existence tried to cover it all up. FUCK YOU DIEFENBAKER, may you rot in fucking hell.
snake2006 2 years ago
@snake2006 I agree with you it would have put canada on the map as a military power and builder had they had the balls to tell the US to shove it up their asses and kept up with the avro areo. our Gov. was and still is weak and should have never let this happen to a canadian company that was pioneering as avro was.
UglyJoe2007 2 years ago
amazing jet!!!!!!
puttz2 2 years ago
wasn't the velvet glove the main weapon system???
pureCANADIANeh 2 years ago
Originally. It was cancelled.
The RCAF wanted an RCA/Honeywell/Victor fire control system used with Sparrow II missiles. This too was dropped.
Had the Arrow gone into production, it (initially) would've used a Hughes MX-1179 system with AIM-4 Falcon missiles and (probably) Douglas AIR-2 Genies.
raynus1 2 years ago 2
I wish they stuck more to the facts.
hcanuck7 3 years ago 7
Why cut them up after cancellation?!
NO ONE does that.
hcanuck7 3 years ago 4
I for one will not fault any country for thier technological advancements to flight. Congrats Canada on a job well done.
supressorgrid 3 years ago 2
Best damn plane that ever flew
A380sebster 3 years ago
along with TSR2 I'd agree with that.
Shame they suffered the same fate.
Bloody governments!!
SLIMIMPHAL 3 years ago
That's a bold statement.
How so?
raynus1 2 years ago
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Arrow was of british design and most of it BRITISH TECHNOLOGY,AWSOME THOUGH..
bosswall1 3 years ago
No.
Jednomdavno3 3 years ago
Too bad they killed this program. Alot of Canucks were proud of this and of the people that concieved, built and tested it.
lighteningboy 3 years ago
The illagitament grand-pappy of the F-15
shadowblock07 4 years ago
How is it the grand-pappy of the the F-15? The Avro was a long range interceptor and the F-15 is a fighter. (also much of the tech came from the U.K.)
JohnQRandom 4 years ago 2
the technology the Avro possesed has no bearing on this subject, the fact is, the Arrow was superior at the time, the U.S. obviously took many design features and incorporated it into the F-4, F-15, even certain common physical traits are apparent. thus the grand pappy of the F-15 ... or F-4.
UNSOF 4 years ago 2
UNSOF. The core technology the Avro possesed has every bearing on this subject as much of it came from the U.K. and Hawker Sidelly Co. The F-15 is a tactical fighter jet and bears no resemblance to the Arro which was a long range interceptor. Further more, this film is nothing than a "pro-Canada" propaganda film and can be taken about as seriously as any of the "Rocky' movies. Not even the test pilot for this aircraft was Canadian. Janusz Zurakowski was in fact from Poland.
JohnQRandom 4 years ago
How did i know it would be a American giving a -2 rating and a post down grading a proud moment.#1. Janusz Żurakowski was born to Polish parents in 1914 in Ryzawka,
1940 to 1952 he became a Britsh citizen and at the time canada was govered by her Royal Majesty and was a subject which doesn't matter cause he and his family moved her in 1952 and was a full Canadian citizen BEFORE flying the Arrow let me guess your FULL AMERICAN your family watched the mayflower roll in.
timberwolf7102james 3 years ago
What about NASA? Any foreigners working in that organization became "Americans", but to credit them under the title "American" is a bit misleading. Also, my comment was directed at all the maple-leaf waving idiots who think Avro engineers launched the American space program, or the ones who think the Avro "made the castle run in less than 12 parsects". (and yes I know some of the Avro engineers went to work for NASA following the conclusion of the Avro, so calm down.)
JohnQRandom 3 years ago 2
@JohnQRandom John your clueless, all those avvro aero techs were sucked up by Nasa at Dryden, your beloved fighter jets like the f14,15,16, f18 were all built by americans and canadians, learn the facts.
MetaliCanuck 1 year ago
@MetaliCanuck
Wrong. There is no such thing as a "braindrain" from Canada to the US. To get a "clue" as to how unsuccessful the Avro Arrow was (which had PLENTY of British engineers including the the "cheif engineer" and the "cheif designer") simply see the video called: "Canadians, the Avro Arrow was a failure" right here on youtube. Canadians did not build the US airforce, and if you think they did then provide a source that supports your bullshit claim.
JohnQRandom 1 year ago
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raynus1 1 year ago
Comment removed
raynus1 1 year ago
@JohnQRandom some? try like 1000s of engineers and laborers John, you really have no clue sorry.
MetaliCanuck 1 year ago
Furthermore, it was Wernher Von Braun and his entire team of engineers who launched NASA. The Nazis also launched the Russian space program, and all of this was done during a time when Canada's population and engineer corps was pathetically small. This film is FILLED with inaccuracies, and was made to make Canadians believe that they played an important role with NASA and the American military. I'm afraid it's you who needs to get their facts straight my friend.
JohnQRandom 1 year ago 4
@JohnQRandom sure whatever you say bud i know plenty of full blooded canucks working for nasa, your really a clueless read everything you know kinda guy i guess. I guess I know nothing about the f18 although i flew it for 8 years, give me a break.
MetaliCanuck 1 year ago
@MetaliCanuck: Canadian aerospace subcontractors and the sub-components they manufacture for companies like GD, Boeing, LM, and NG exist mainly because of Diefenbaker signing Canada into the Shared Development Program following cancellation of the CF-105. Hey, I think the CF-105 was a good design and held great promise...too bad Avro management dropped the ball (like they did with the C-102 Jetliner). I just refuse to buy into the myth that the USA had anything to do with its demise.
raynus1 1 year ago
You know "plenty of full blooded Canucks working for NASA". You see metalicanuck, that's the wonderful thing about youtube, we can all be whomever we want. Canada's engineering corps is very small, the reason points to your SMALL POPULATION, currently at a mere 33 million, and was even smaller 20, 30, and 40 years ago. Don't tell me that Canadians have played a huge role in building the US airforce or NASA. The US and Russia can both thank German tech for launching their rocketry.
JohnQRandom 1 year ago
@MetaliCanuck
Even the very "biased" article: "The Avro Engineers who went to the US" claims '31' Avro engineers found employment with Nasa following the cancelation of the Arrow. From there (according to the article) helped the US get to the moon, an accomplishment that many Canadians (like yourself I'm sure) claim never really happened. Even I'm skeptical of it, but the bottom line is not that Canadians "can't", it's that you are small in numbers.
JohnQRandom 1 year ago
@JohnQRandom No need to be so harsh. and i think a Canadian would know Canad's history better than anyone else. And, technically, the scientists in NASA weren't Nazi, just German. And just because an industy is small doesn't mean it's incapable, so you need to get YOUR facts straight.
TheLordofError 9 months ago
@TheLordofError
The scientists taken out of Germany renounced their Nazi identity once they began working to NASA, prior to that they were the loyal backbone of the Nazi machine, thus making them "Nazis". Also, go to the video in my favorites box "Canadians, the Avro was a failure." There one of your own professors refutes the is film. The crap edited on Wiki is also false, I've changed in persoanally many times but Canadians seem to edit it back daily.
JohnQRandom 9 months ago
@JohnQRandom The Arrow was able to preform as well as the specs on Wikipedia say. And, no offence, but i trust the several NGO and Gov't documentaries on the Arrow more than some seemingly pissed foriegner. The Arrow was a failure ONLY in cost. Perhaps find some of Yan Zurakowski's comments on the '105?
TheLordofError 8 months ago
@JohnQRandom
I agree.
While the Arrow is an interesting aircraft It was larger (2X), expensive and hardly more capable than the single engine F106 Delta Dart. And the Delta dart flew in 1956 and the Arrow in 1958. They say that the Arrow might have been able to approach mach 3...but that was never proven. Both aircraft were designed to fire Falcon & Genie missiles but were not suitable for missions other than interceptor duty. And we were entering the era of multi-role aircraft anyway.
1138thz 5 months ago
@1138thz
The fact that the Soviet space program had developed ICBMs that they were beginning warheads on was another major factor. It seems Avro would have been better off keeping the engines and developing a fighter jet. In any case, i think horrible how this film convinces Canadians (though not outright) that the Arrow was canceled by the American government. It's simply not true.
JohnQRandom 5 months ago
@JohnQRandom
I agree 100% John Q.
ICBM's put the Russian Bomber force on the far back burner. And those big Tu-95's never had the jamming gear or the Quail decoys our 52's had and would have been splashed in droves by F102's, F101's and F106's before they made if half way across Canada. A mach 3 interceptor is needed only if the threat is a mach 3 bomber. And even then Nike Hercules would have blasted those (100kt) . We can just chalk the Anti American crap up as Canadian sour grapes.
1138thz 5 months ago
@MetaliCanuck:Good grief. Giving Canadians credit for indigenous US designs like the Tomcat, Eagle, Fighting Falcon and Hornet is farcical. Grumman (F-14) was a pioneer in naval jet aviation, predating the arrow. McDonnell Douglas produced the excellent F-4 Phantom II at exactly the same time as the CF-105, and General Dynamics (F-16/Formerly Convair) had a stable full of aircraft and designs that exceeded anything Avro had on the board. Keep it real...not CBC.
raynus1 1 year ago
@raynus1 hey asshat my grandfather still works at dryden and himself was involved in the f15 and f16 production and design. Prove me wrong.
MetaliCanuck 1 year ago
@JohnQRandom Janusz Zurakowski wasnt the only test pilot- Spud Potoski (former Polish A.F.) and Jack Woodman (R.C.A.F.) tested flew it as well.
TheLordofError 8 months ago
the arrow was superior at the time ? It was better than any place that flies now.. well what canadians have anyways :@
Josshhhie 3 years ago
Actually, the F-4 was developed at the same time as the CF-105...both flew for the first time in 1958.
raynus1 2 years ago
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raynus1 2 years ago
@UNSOF
Hmmmm...The F-4 Phantom flew on 27 May 1958 and the Arrow flew on 25 March 1958. Man those McDonnell Douglas hombres did some fast copy-catting sport!!
1138thz 5 months ago
She was a beauty alright. It scared the Americans so much they went out of the way to kill the project.
WinchesterRanger 4 years ago 2
Sorry, but that just isn't true. A lot of American projects *themselves* were killed due to a misguided belief in the late 1950's that the manned fighter would end and be replaced by missiles like the BOMARC. There was also a (partially true) belief that the interceptor's days were over. The USA cancelled the XF-103, XF-108 and YF-12 (proposed fighter version of SR-71) as well. All of which would have been amazing aircraft, as was the Avro Arrow.
NickB1967 3 years ago 8
@NickB1967 The US procurement system was designed to include the cancellation of projects, witness most recently the YF-23 and the X-32. the XF-103 was canceled because it didn't have a suitable engine, while the XF-108 concept of a super long range escort fighter was found to be flawed - neither were canceled because of a preference for missiles or because a foreign government promised that the US would be showered with radiocative debris from Bomarc missiles, as the US did to the Canadians.
WinchesterRanger 1 year ago
@WinchesterRanger: Well, of course the US procurement system has competitors. The YF-23 was the competitor to the F-22, and just was not as good. Nothing wrong with that. And if the XF-108 was cancelled because the concept of a long-range escort interceptor was flawed, what does that say for the Arrow?
NickB1967 1 year ago
@NickB1967 It says nothing for the Arrow - that's the point, because the Arrow was an interceptor, and the Americans were still developing numerous interceptor type aircraft at a time when you claim that all such research was being cancelled in favor of missiles - which it wasn't. That's the point, get it?
WinchesterRanger 1 year ago
@WinchesterRanger: Wrong. What interceptors the USA had at the time of the Arrow cancellation were *already* developed. Any further improvements in them--like the rather silly attempt to make the F-104 Starfighter into a tactical fighter--were minor improvements on a design already finished. Any brand new developments in interceptors--like the YF-12, XF-103, etc., were axed, just as the Arrow was. The F-106 barely made it past the cutoff, lucky to be just barely finished in development stage.
NickB1967 1 year ago
@NickB1967: Absolutely correct.
raynus1 1 year ago
@NickB1967 What you're saying simply isn't true. The F-106 wasn't "developed", ironically it actually entered service the same year as the Arrow was cancelled and would go on to serve for almost 30 years, the YF-12 wouldn't even fly for another 4 years and was in active development in 1959. US interceptors were very much alive during this period, and those that made it through development would continue to serve for decades. Is this your definition of the US "dumping interceptors" in the 50s?
WinchesterRanger 1 year ago
@WinchesterRanger Yes, it entered service, which means it was developed. It barely made it that far, and the subsequent F-108 and F-12 programs wouldn't get nearly that far. The basic concept had just lost most support.
LeopoldPlumtree 1 year ago
@LeopoldPlumtree The F-106 underwent continual improvements up to 1972, i.e. it was still being developed in its role as an interceptor for another 13 years post-introduction, the YF-12 was in active development in 1959 and we are being asked to believe that all interceptor development was dead, and as I have demonstrated that assertion simply isn't true. To the original point, people need only read the book on the history of the Arrow to see that US interference in the project was very real.
WinchesterRanger 1 year ago
@WinchesterRanger F-106 production ended in 1960, so any modifications after that point were to already existing aircraft. The F-106 program predated the Arrow and barely escaped the cancellation that befell subsequent aircraft of the type. YF-12 development continued a little longer, but both it and the F-108 were chopped. If interceptor development wasn't dead, it was certainly in the final stages of dying, so the point remains.
Claims of US intervention are unsubstantiated.
LeopoldPlumtree 1 year ago
@LeopoldPlumtree You're missing the point, the US introduced the F-106 in 1959 and it served them well until 1988, it was the US Arrow, and they didn't "dump it" they developed the aircraft and kept it in service for almost 30 years. Don't forget that other nations developed interceptors long after this - the best comparison is not the US, it's the Soviets, who also had vast areas of border to protect. They maintain their Mig 31 fleet for that purpose to this day - the concept was not flawed.
WinchesterRanger 1 year ago
@WinchesterRanger I think you're missing the point, which is that the F-106 program predated the Arrow by a couple years and barely made it to production itself. Introduced in 1959 means years of flight testing were already in the bag and decisions about moving forward had already been made. The Arrow was still years from that point, and timing was not on its side as it was thought the concept was outdated, wisely or not. After that point, the US acted similarly and chopped the F-108/F-12.
LeopoldPlumtree 1 year ago
@WinchesterRanger: The F-106 was a souped up F-102; the design work on the F-102 had been completed before the Arrow began. Again, I agree that it was unwise to cancel the Arrow, and other interceptors, because even with missile technology, the interceptor's days were not completely over. Still, when even the F-104 was modified to be a tactical fighter bomber (what a truly silly idea), it was clear that an interceptor-only aircraft was not going to cut it anymore in a costly world.
NickB1967 1 year ago
Comment removed
LeopoldPlumtree 1 year ago
@WinchesterRanger: Again, what interference? The various written media which I have studied on the CF-105 program clearly suggests otherwise. The USA provided engines, test aircraft, weapons, guidance systems, and wind tunnels for Avro. Hardly interference. Eisenhower had his own advanced interceptor programs chopped, one of which was a design much, much, more advanced than the CF-105.
raynus1 1 year ago
English involvement was minor. The Arrow is 98% Canadian. James became a Canadian citizen.
I think the Brits designed the Arrow's teacup holder...
NWAAII 4 years ago
RichardBlane... there were HUNDREDS of people designing each and every aspect and component of the AVRO Arrow.
JAMES C. FLOYD oversaw that process. SHAPE, STRUCTURE etc. would have evolved from testing and input from the various engineers.
So you're telling us that Mr. Floyd did all this, by himself... and he pre-knew just what would work and what wouldn't?
NWAAII 4 years ago
No, I'm telling you that there were many Brits involved with the construction of this aircraft, and much of the core technology came from Hawker Siddeley. "The Arrow is 98% Canadian." You Canadians are funny when it comes to your percentages. So tell me, what percentge of the Stanley Cup Champ Anaheim Ducks are Canadian? You should know this.
RichardBlane 4 years ago
the UK and poland sucks, thats why they moved to canada, called themselves Canadians.
HierPower 4 years ago
Poland not poland.
What do you know about emigration?
It is not pleasure to live your home and go to foreign country and prove for all your life that you are good.What is it all about? Yes Canada has great and proud people,but theye are not from Mars
witoldtomczyk 4 years ago
lol enjoy the day quit being so serious.
HierPower 4 years ago
the russians paid canada off to stop the arrow so we wouldnt have kick ass planes buzzing the pole... afterall does canada really want to be known for arming the world with fighter planes? i think we should stick to good bush planes.
HierPower 4 years ago
very good richard(dick)what does the raptor have to do with this? I think u missed my point. the US had their dirty little fingers in our pie(like usual)
kanuck2112 4 years ago
Just goes to show what happens when you do a job too well done.
Marcanada 4 years ago
Still the greatest aircraft in the world, the recipients of our technology should be grateful...they know who they are. Pssst...there just south of here.
kanuck2112 4 years ago
Pssss, I have a little secret for you, THE AVRO ARROW WAS DESIGNED BY AN ENGLISHMAN "JAMES C. FLOYD"!!!! As were many of the other engineers from the U.K. Not even the test pilot was Canadian, he was from Poland. Also, if you want awsome technology try searching "F-22 Raptor", or SU-37, or are you going to take credit for those jets aswell?
RichardBlane 4 years ago
pssst, richardblane without technology that developed by the arrow team including the Iroquois engines designed for the arrow mach 2 there may not be an fa/22 and besides it was a Canadian jet, built by a contractor that yes was British but who cares
naturallybornninja 4 years ago
psss, naturallybornninja, both the US and Russia can credit the Germams for their early rocket technology and jet engines, not Canada. Every hear of "Wernher Von Braun" little man?
RichardBlane 4 years ago
Sorry, but that just isn't true. A lot of American projects *themselves* were killed due to a misguided belief in the late 1950's that the manned fighter would end and be replaced by missiles like the BOMARC. There was also a (partially true) belief that the interceptor's days were over. The USA cancelled the XF-103, XF-108 and YF-12 (proposed fighter version of SR-71) as well. All of which would have been amazing aircraft, as was the Avro Arrow.
NickB1967 3 years ago
I have never listened to an Echo Class ATC conversation before and it does'nt seem quite right.
tymo7777 4 years ago