Jehovah's Witnesses: The Trinity Doctrine Existed Before the Council of Nicea

[YearningForHonesty]

If I'm not mistaken, the idea of a trinity in Christianity came into existence around 180 A.D, but became official doctrine in the fourth century.

[chrisjones655]

The same people that believe this BS are the same who followed Jim Jones....these people are smarter though, the Watchtower knows although you can only skin a sheep once, you can sheer one many times, and all the weak who received not the live of the truth follow the watchtower...

[chrisjones655]

JWs are some of the most programmed people I have ever heard of....They would make a great software platform...No one who searches the scriptures alone could arrive at any other conclusion but that Jesus is the Immanuel spoken of by Isaiah the prophet...You can't fix stupid.... And if God blinds someone to a fact, then blind he shall be...but the all knowing watchtower will help him...

[jojojunfan]

You quote alot of post-apolistic fathers, what makes you think they are correct? Also, there was no Christian congregation until there was a Christ. So, yes there were pre-christian trinties, but logic tells us that any civilization who existed before Christ and worshiped a triune god was not worshipping the Trinity that most think of today. The trinity that most think of today is this: God is made up of 3 co-equal and co-eternal persons. If any one of those beliefs is in error...no trinity.

[1jaysmack]

TO ME THE Trinity IS ABOUT AS FALSE AS IT GETS MANY TIME IN THE BIBLE ITS SAYS HOW JESUS PRAYD TO HIS FATHER AND IF THE WERE ALL ONE PERSON THERE WOULD BE NO POINT TO THAT PRAYER BECUZ HE WOULD JUSS BEIN PRAYIN TO HIMSELF FOR HELP AND GUARDINCE SO HOW COULD THEY BE THE SAME

[jrichard1977]

@1jaysmack You only want to believe what you can understand. The Trinity is impossible for a human mind to understand for the same reason that God's omnipotence is impossible to understand. Your preconceived notions on the Trinity are blinding you to the Truth that Jesus is LORD and Yahweh just as much as his Father and the Holy Spirit are.

[pcbarter]

@jrichard1977 Yea, Unsound unreasonable pagan teaching are hard to understand.

But the turth sets us free from Pagan origin mumbo jumbo.

[jrichard1977]

@pcbarter You're right. I guess we shouldn't believe in God because we can't understand perfect love and perfect anger or His infinity. Must be a pagan idea. Ha!

Your problem is that you only want to believe what you can understand. Then again, why do you believe in driving cars, using microwaves, flying in planes, using computers etc. Do you understand the intricacies of how they work, or are you able to just believe they are what they are and do what they do???

[jojojunfan]

@jrichard1977 so what your guys excuses for celebrating christmas and halloween?

[jrichard1977]

@jojojunfan I celebrate Christmas because I love Jesus and celebrate the day God became man. The shepherds and wise men celebrate Jesus' birth, and no man can point to a single scripture saying I shouldn't do it.

I don't celebrate Halloween outside of giving the kids candy who knock on our door. No harm done.

[jojojunfan]

@jrichard1977 why does Jesus have to be God to be divine? Having a divine nature and being a spirit creature does not make you God. Angels are godlike, Satan is the God of this world. Even humans are called Gods in the bible. Also, no man can see Gods face and live. So..logic 101, Jesus is not God. The almighty GOD would not have fit the description of a propiciatory sacrafice. Adam was resposible for our sins, Jesus the lamb takes away sins. = = = = not god

[RendezvousEntity]

@jrichard1977 So why do we believe in a trinity when it's still a man's description of god? if god can't be understood thus disproving Jehovah's witness's monotheism then it also disproves your trinitarianism, both trying to describe god. As mere humans, would god want us to believe in him the way we are capable of, or not understand him at all? I mean the bible to us is god's letter to "us" isn't it? what makes such an idea any better?

[jrichard1977]

@RendezvousEntity I appreciate your point, but I think you make a mistake in saying that a description of God that is difficult to understand is an inaccurate belief. It doesn't matter whether or not we can understand exactly what "God" is. What matters is what the Bible says about God. The Bible, very obviously called Jesus, the Father, and the Holy Spirit God in many distinct and separate passages. The conclusion is based on what the Scripture teaches, NOT on our ability to understand.

[RendezvousEntity]

@jrichard1977 But it's our responsibility to misunderstand, for what purpose? the way Jehovah's Witnesses and any monotheistic form of god they worship is ALREADY better to believe than the trinity of god. How can we not understand what the scriptures teach, than what God limits us to be taught to know. I'm making a point that God purposed us to know who he is as much as what he taught, not completely which would be more precise.

[wsjulz]

@1jaysmack Jesus prayed to the Father because they are seperate persons. The trinity is one God in 3 persons so they give each other help according to their functions. Each member of the trinity has a different function and they are all equal in deity.

[Noffy1111]

@1jaysmack

Can you tell me WHO resurrected Christ? 

[abbyguy]

@Noffy1111 : John 2:19 "19 Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.”

21 "But the temple he had spoken of was his body."

Clear enough for ya?

[jrichard1977]

@Noffy1111 Depends on the passage. In one place, Jesus raised himself. In another place, the Holy Spirit did it. In another, the Father did it. So you tell me: Who raised Jesus? I say God did! And, I also say that all three persons ARE the ONE GOD! :)

[prognosis77]

IF THE Trinity were true, it should be clearly and consistently presented in the Bible. Why? Because, as the apostles affirmed, the Bible is God’s revelation of himself to mankind. And since we need to know God to worship him acceptably, the Bible should be clear in telling us just who he is

[prognosis77]

where are the scriptures that follow these statements???

[prognosis77]

plus the idea of 3 gods came from long ago, the Egyptians worshiped several triune gods, pagans were the worst and the pagans corrupted Christianity with there three in one god idea which later was called the trinity in the 4th century

[jrichard1977]

@prognosis77 What if I came up with some pagan religion whose "god" is called "Jehovah"? Does that necessarily mean that they "corrupted" the Jehovah's Witness religion? That's a totally invalid argument to make.

Besides, as I have shown in my video, then men who were taught by the original apostles all believed in the deity of Christ. In fact, it is all throughout the Bible as well.

[jrichard1977]

@prognosis77 The moment you call the Trinity "3 gods", you are departing from the essentials of what the Trinity is. There is only one God to me, NOT 3 Gods. If Jesus is not God, then why does the Bible call him so?

[prognosis77]

@jrichard1977 Jesus has many titles he is also called prince of peace, the scripture you are referring to is John 1, in a more acurate translation it says he is a god, And if Jesus is god who does he pray too in the Bible. And when Jesus says the father is greater than Jesus is who is Jesus reffering too. I not taking credit away from Jesus he is our King and the one who died for our sins. Would you like to study?? When the JW's come to your door they will be glad to help you find the truth.

[jrichard1977]

@prognosis77 The New World Translation is only supported by the JWs. No well-known scholars that I've heard of give it any credence. Read one of the more accurate ones such as the NASB or ESV.

[prognosis77]

@jrichard1977 I see were youre coming from,the NWT is "translated" from the original hebrew greek and aramaic writings. I have sent you plenty of information to go over, and this was 11 months ago, and it seems to me none of the info I sent is helping, you want to argue and I want to teach others. thank you for your time. No more messages please....

[abbyguy]

@prognosis77 : So what? It is intent that is important NOT the fact that doctrines are similar.

Let me ask you have you ever lit a candle? Do you where a wedding ring? Look upi the origins of these pagan beliefs.

[prognosis77]

YOU SAID IN YOUR VIDEO THAT PEONIUS PUT THE 3 TOGETHER ALL HE DID WAS SAY THE 3 TOGETHER,THEN IGNATIOUS HE SAID JESUS CHRIST WAS OUR GOD, THAT DOES NOT FOLLOW SCRIPTURE. THEN JUSTIN MARTYR, THE IDEA MIGHT HAVE BEEN THERE BUT THE ACTUAL SET DOCTRINE WAS IN THE 4TH CENTURY. THEY SAID THREE BUT WHERE WAS THE WORD " TRINITY" PLUS AFTER THE APOSTLES DIED THERE WAS A DARK PERIOD, THIS IS WERE MAN CAME UP WITH MANY DOCTRINES , THE TRINITY, HELL FIRE ETC... FAR FROM THE TRUTH......

[jrichard1977]

@prognosis77 Who cares whether or not they used the word "Trinity" or not. I, for one, don't really care what it is called. The fact remains that it is taught all throughout Scripture.

Also, I would highly recommend that you not blindly blurt out Watchtower doctrines. For example, the whole thing you mention about this dark period after the Apostles died is a Watchtower doctrine designed to make you demonize all of those who believe in the deity of Christ. Total hogwash.

[prognosis77]

@jrichard1977 Where is it taught all through out the scriptures???

[jrichard1977]

@prognosis77 Would you agree with this line of argumentation below?

If I can establish in the BIBLE that:

1. There is a person who is called "The Father", and this person is called "GOD", and...

2. There is a person who is called "The Son", and this person is called "GOD", and...

3. There is a person who is called "The Holy Spirit", and this person is called "GOD,"

4. And I can prove in the BIBLE that there is only ONE GOD, then...

All three persons above ARE THE ONE GOD!

[prognosis77]

@jrichard1977 If these 3 are all the same, why does God only now the day and the hour that God will end this wicked system, not even the Son knows, if they are 3 and the same would they not be in agreement with each other and all would know the day and hour. Jesus said himself that the father is greater than I am, and that he was created by his father, how can they be the same if Jesus was created by GOD.

[prognosis77]

Phil. Chapter 2:6-7 I agree with this scripture as well, it still shows that Jesus is not equal to the Father, read chapter 2: 8-11 of the same book. God exalted him to a superior position. to acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to "THE GLORY OF GOD THE FATHER"

[robertwc82]

only 6 myths? lol, i could liist 100 at least

[jrichard1977]

@robertwc82 Yeah, there are some myths that certain "Christian" groups believe for sure. Not disagreeing with you there.

[earnestlyseeking]

Thanks for pointing out what the real myth is.

[jrichard1977]

No problem.  You actually don't have to look very far to figure out that the Council of Nicea was merely used as a way for Christians to officially agree on what they already believed! Grace and peace!

[earnestlyseeking]

The council of Nicea is used as a distraction by JWs and some other groups to draw attention away from the Biblical support for the Deity of Christ. They think if they can get people to think that Constantine developed the teaching, then they can get a "foot in the door" and set up a fall guy for the teaching. I know the tricks, I used them for years, before I learned the real Truth. I'm shocked that this video of yours hasn't gotten more views. I put it on my favorites.

grace to you also!

[prognosis77]

@earnestlyseeking What is the real truth!!!!

[prognosis77]

@earnestlyseeking the diety of Christ The belief that Jesus was and is God, how is that possible. Jesus constanly gives all credit to his Father in the Greek scriptures or new testament, also saying the Father is greater than he was. Not taking away any credit from Christ, he is the means by which all man kind gets saved, but worship belongs soley to the father, even Jesus said that when being tempted by satan.

[earnestlyseeking]

@prognosis77 Did Jesus say that only the Father can forgive sins, or did he say that he has that authority? Even the Pharisees said that only God can forgive sins. (See Mark 2:7-12)

Jesus gives credit to the Father because while on earth he took on a humbled position of servant, as Paul stated in Phil. Chapter 2:6-7

[prognosis77]

@earnestlyseeking That is why we pray to the father for forgiveness of sins, Jesus says he is the mediator between us and the father, so he petitions the father on our behalf , and that is also why Jesus came to earth. The father sent his only begotten son to die for our sins. Such great love the father and jesus shown for man kind.

[prognosis77]

@earnestlyseeking That authority was given to Jesus by the Father when he was on earth.(See Mark 2:7-12) I agree with that scripture.

[kimanaan]

Yale University professor E. Washburn Hopkins affirmed: “To Jesus and Paul the doctrine of the trinity was apparently unknown; . . . they say nothing about it.”—Origin and Evolution of Religion.

Historian Arthur Weigall notes: “Jesus Christ never mentioned such a phenomenon, and nowhere in the New Testament does the word ‘Trinity’ appear. The idea was only adopted by the Church three hundred years after the death of our Lord.”—The Paganism in Our Christianity.

[prognosis77]

@earnestlyseeking that the trinity is a myth, your right!!!!