Instead of penalty free gaming I would prefer that the Easy mode got a redesign, for example, you said that we learned to play on a controller with 8 inputs so imagine a game like Rainbow Six Vegas, my dad liked the game but sucked at it because of the complex controllers, if the Easy mode was a more simplefied version of the game he could learn the basics first (no ironsight, no cover system, etc, it would almost play like DOOM, run and shoot). Then he could learn the advanced stuff later.
That study quoting 50% gamers, did that include mobile and facebook games, those platforms must have a higher penetration than 50%... And i think the iphone is more intuitive than the wii, which has too many controllers (mote, nunchuk, classic, gamecube, plastic peripherals), whereas the best iphone games require only one finger to manipulate the game world. Talk about accessability, plus it can start out as a smartphone until you're bored one day on a bus and decide to check out this "app stor
@cbuma Most people get really frustrated if they only die a few times in games and prefer to give up instead of working hard to get better.
Thats why many new people that try to play games dont wanna continue play to play game because they dont want to keep dying and get frustrated anymore.
Nice video man. I totally agree, and I seem to be one of the few people who really enjoyed PoP '08. It entertained me, the story was interesting, the characters were cool (specifically the bosses), and isn't that what gaming is about? To have fun?
Every single comment dissing this video has absolutely no idea what Shamus is talking about... Who are you to call a new gamer an "idiot"? Go and pick up a guitar/piano/instrument you've never played, and try to sound coherent. You'll suck, I guarantee it. If we applied the standards we use for videogames on such things, we'd have run out of musicians in the 80's. So shut the fuck up, all you "expert gamers", and lend a hand to those who are trying to pick gaming up. If you like gaming, that is
Every single comment dissing this video has absolutely no idea what Shamus is talking about... Who are you to call a new gamer an "idiot"? Go and pick up a guitar/piano/instrument you've never played, and try to sound coherent. You'll suck, I guarantee it. If we applied the standards we use for videogames on such things, we'd have run out of musicians in the 80's. So shut the fuck up, all you "expert gamers", and lend a hand to those who are trying to pick gaming up. If you like gaming, that is.
@GarciLP You are wise in your statement. However, playing videogames picked up my finger dexterity in playing guitar and vice versa. It is an endless loop of skill building. Think of it as skill synergy like in a roleplaying game. Skills in one field can help use other skills. Suffice to say, I actually did have some advantages before ever playing the instrument. It doesn't defy your statement but is more of a supplement.
@timorekusa Depth and accessibility are not mutually exclusive.
And it's funny how you seem to think reaction time requirements are in any way indicative of a game's quality. Is I Wanna Be The Guy your golden standard of gaming?
@timorekusa I know what you mean, and agree to a certain degree.
I played Diablo II: Lord of Destruction online for the first time in years last week. What a great online game it USED to be! Now you just kill the weakest monster or just open a chest and all the items in the virual world fall to the ground to be grabbed! I'd just started the game and my inventory was full after like three kills and a chest!
Damn! What am I, a baby!? It didn't used to be that way!
Hell, I remember playing like C64 Telengard and the Ultima games and such where maybe about half the monsters you killed dropped nothing at all, at least in the early stages of such games. You had to get a bit of skillz to get to where the monsters dropped lots and good stuff.
But I also understand what the video says as well: Games were much more "User-Friendly" in the past. Today, the attitudes are all wrong: User-Friendliness is quite a lost art!
You made a very good point there. Some of my friends wanted to try out and be Samus Aran on the Game Cube, but gave up after a very short time because they had difficulties coping with the controls and landscape and so on.
A really interesting perspective. I can't say as a long-time PC gamer I would want to go over to a new control system even if everyone else was doing it. I mean, all my friends embraced the 360 because of xbox live etc. although many of them weren't really gamers before this. I'm very attached to keyboard and mouse, specifically the mouse. Game pad analogue sticks just don't cut the mustard when it comes to precision. I find them frustrating to use.
Actually the Call of Duty series pretty much got my whole school into video games. Most of the people around me played casually on their PS2, playing some Simpsons game or some racing game - but when Modern Warfare came out - people who'd never played FPSes or harded games were thrown in. And hell, most of them are better than me now.
@tigranater where you listening to him at all. not children. ADULTS. wii. princew of persia. now dont get me wrong. i know what you are talking about. COD is a good game and is easy to play. its 4 settings and its epic story lines. but multey player. thats how they are losing sales. Halo for instince. Its fun and easy to play. well sorta. any way, but look. its matchmaking is a peice of crap. all the weopons are the same damage and stuff. not only that but the people who play it. just the fact..
@whoneedsskittles Whoa what the hell man. I totally agree with Shamus, all I'm saying is that Call of Duty did a good job in my community. No need to put Halo into scene as if it is better at getting sales (which it isn't evidently).
@tigranater of people who; cant play, hackers, douchbags, dumbasses and even pros. they can ruin the intire game. If microsoft and who ever made ps3 get along, they can make a game that is both fun and easy to play. This comment will now start flame wars
...into corruption). Add to that poor dialogue (Yahtzee put this best), the lack of life (despite there being actual guards in the intro) and the disconnect of the platforming world with any realistic living or "market" place, subtract any relation with Persia and you have the make-up for an incredibly disappointing game.
If the game world wasn't beautiful, it would be firmly on every hardcore gamer's 'stay away' list.
K' I'm done. For those that can enjoy this, do, but don't call it 'best'.
I just want to add that I shouldn't go so far as to say what kind of gamer you are. I know from your background you've played big-time multiplayer games and so you've been around the block.
I just really believe that praise for this game is easily misplaced and the assumption that a certain game is 'good' for a certain player(in this case new), especially when you're NOT that player, is just as poor as my own.
And I don't mean to be heavy-handed (as ironic or inconsistent it may seem).
...into corruption). Add to that poor dialogue (Yahtzee put this best), the lack of life (despite there being actual guards in the intro) and the disconnect of the platforming world with any realistic living or "market" place, subtract any relation with Persia and you have the make-up for an incredibly disappointing game.
If the game world wasn't beautiful, it would be firmly on every hardcore gamer's 'stay away' list.
K' I'm done. For those that can enjoy this, do, but don't call it 'best'.
... in that the enemies regain abstract amounts of health (often to full).
Some simple changes (perhaps in a hard mode) could change the wall running to a dynamic movement whilst holding a button to increase immersion may have helped this game.
None of these complaints even addresses the games awful, convoluted story, of which you have no real influence(The princess addresses the citizens and life of the city as the 'real' story and you have no way of resolving the issues which brought it...
... that cause the game to go wrong for me. Along with the hand-holding, goes the games shoddy one-on-one combat situations. It's really more a mini-game, separate from the games mainstay mechanics, as you con do none of the attack animations outside of combat, platforming has virtually no influence (you can do no wall-running for instance) it's chopped up with quick-time events (do new gamers like this?) and unlike the games notion of quick correction, contains the closest element to dying...
... or Megaman which is all about precision placement of shots (combat) and jump timing/input.
For Prince of Persia however, it's all about choosing the proper input (the four face buttons) to react to your situation. What makes the game easy is that these decision often only come about 3 or 4 seconds apart as the game is filled with cooked animations and sticky points to correct your decisions to fit within the games precepts. It's these cooked animations and almost combat free experience...
...I would suggest acquiring games such as the Sonic or Megaman collections for PS2. Both have the controller lag problems negated, and in Sonic's case, a save-state, which solves many newcomer issues, but still allows punishment to entice a feeling of challenge. --
These older platformers embrace their simple controller design and yet have important dynamic influence. For Sonic it's the varying degrees of speed and momentum, and how small changes in input can solve it's platform problems...
...dynamics. For me, what I would recommend to new gamers is just, in fact, what I started out with, the Sonic series. The differences in between the two games design philosophies is actually quite staggering, despite both of them being primarily platformers.
--stray but related complaint-- I find the input PoP (2008) (though the series in general as well) to be quite appalling, which is probably both due to the the game and wireless controller now mandated as normal. For this reason...
I'm a bid fan of a Shamus' work, I find myself constantly agreeing with him on the articles he writes for the Escapist, not to mention his decent sense of humour. With this game and video demonstration however I find myself in vehement disagreement with him. I think it's the difference in the type of gamers we are and thus the tenets to what makes a game 'good' or appealing. It seems he finds completion of story and 'game-like' elements to be fulfilling whereas I prefer depth in gameplay...
Just finished playing PoP 2008 today, I was hooked. I found it addictive, rewarding and I enjoyed the simple, but heart-string hitting, story. The characters were extremely well-written and, while it's not perfect, it's a great wee game. I was thinking the EXACT same thing as I was playing it. This would be a gaming masterpiece to the uninitiated. Instead of feeling venerated by the usual challenges of video games, they would surely feel relaxed and in control while playing PoP 2008. :)
so... people are such kind of creatures... THEY CAN'T STUDY EFFECTIVELY WITHOUT PUNISHMENTS ^_^ Thay just won't learn the lesson. The half of what you just say here is a fckng nonsence... What kind of victory is it when it's no chance to lose??? If it's not HARD as hell - where's the pleasure from the process? From studying? From crossing borderlines of your own abilities...
wtf are u talking about? Maybe I understood u in a wrong way or something?...
@karagkarh For an experienced gamer overcoming a challenging game where death has real consequence is a satisfying experience, for a new gamer, just being able to finish a level delivers that same sense of fulfillment. That is why games need variable levels of difficulty, to tailor the challenge to suit the player. Prince of Persia is little fun for you, because it is too easy, just like a game where you need 4 hands to play it would be no fun for you because it would be too hard.
Great video, you present a very insightful view on the subject and I agree with you on many points
But I believe that there is something to be said of the enjoyment we get from beating unfavorable odds
When there are no consequences for failure, victory loses appeal, you get no gratification for winning and most of all its a fleeting experience
We all have memories of moments on our gaming history when we succeeded against the odds and got that impossible victory and we remember them for of it
Is that music from descent (lvl 13 I believe) playing on an OPL3? They way it is meant to be played?
Well, for the first truely 3D FPS, the single player experience was... eh. But despite the controller learning curve, it is the first FPS I played regularly, ever. 5 way+ lanpartys of cat-and mouse gameplay and cleverly hidden uber weapons: awesome!
Although you are completely right, the elements that make PoP appealing to new gamers are exactly the ones that make me hate the game. I don´t want to be able to do anything without getting punished, I expect consequences for my failures. It feels to me that I can get past a passage just by stubbornly pushing forward again and again until I get it, ultimately not learning my lesson.
I need something that shows me that I have to put effort into something to achieve my goal, thus making me feel rewarded. It makes me know that I have to try hard to get somewhere. It got pretty dull after I realised that I couldn´t die, even the last boss is unfailable and that´s what killed the game for me. Wii Sports is more challenging than PoP in that aspect.
And then you have some gamers with a philosophy on what gaming should be, that is filled with contradictory statements. For instance, they appreciate the massive growth of the industry but also think Wii and its games are "killing gaming".
I think the high learning curve for non-gamers playing "hardcore gamers" is what gets games pigeonholed as being anti-social activities by some, because the barrier for entry puts gamers in an exclusive mile-high club. It's a social activity to the gamers but not to outsiders. Have 90% market saturation and we wouldn't see video games as an alienating experience.
yeah you get infinte energy, lives, check point every room now damn near everygame. one reason i dont bother buying anything anymore just waste my money theses days
PoP was awful. The characters had no depth, the guy was a complete douchebag and the levels were linear. My first platformer was on the ps2, it was Ratchet and clank (#1). That game wasn't difficult, but it had humour in and was well received by critics. It goes to show a game catered to everyone can actually be good. Ratchet and clank gave you 4 (?) lives and plenty of chances to get more, it didn't punish you either! But it did give you a chance to challenge yourself. Pop does not.
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stupid video. I hope you play Demon's Souls and realize how much more innovative and gratifying it is.
Prince of persia doesn't suck because its easy. Prince of persia is boring because basically every obstacle is linear. Pretty much no room for creativity or experimentation. A game is not innovative because it doesn't punish people. Not too mention how many dumb shits who buy Wii's have them collecting dust. Play Demon's Souls you vagina.
I recently played through Majora's Mask and at the very end on the moon there's a part where you can get a piece of heart if you roll as Goron Link. You must be extremely precise and not screw up or you start back at the beginning. It took me a good 15-20 min of trial and error and falling in pits, but the feeling of getting that heart piece was awesome. That's why I like challenges.
PoP is the ONLY game I'veintroduced my Girlfriend to that she has played, enjoyed, re-played without me even being about and actually completed before I did. I think you've hit the nail on the head as well, as to why this has happened with Prince of Persia.
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I don't want to post a comment but I relly feel like i need to on this one. the reason that olny roughly 50% of the adult population in america is gameing is quite simply because olny 50% of the adult population is male. no to say that there are not female gamers, but the subject matter of almost all video games is very clearly aimed tworads a male demigraphic.
So are you saying that those 50% of adults who game are mostly male? Thus, mostly all male adults are gamers? I would challenge you to take a survey in your local area of men and see exactly how many of them are gamers.
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I'm sorry but Prince of Persia is so fucking boring, I'm not that great at them, but no deaths? That's beyond retarded, there is no victory in redoing anything you fail over and over. It's like save stating through an old mega man. IT IS A TERRIBLE GAME, I played for a temples. They were boring, had bad design, the fighting was pathetic, and the dialogue was just shameful. I lost my respect for you sir, how could you endorse this piece of shit?!
Spending more time being punished than being entertained. Huh, sounds a lot like running after the soccer ball after missing a shot, rolling up your yo-yo after not doing a trick correctly or holding your hurting knee after failing to do an ollie to me.
I was 9 years old when I stared video gaming and my first real video game was Call of Duty. I suggest that if you have a friend that is not into video games put them on a PC or Mac then they will not fell so "shy" around it all. Then when they are ready put them on a PS3 or 360 then they should get the hang of the whole gaming concept quicker.
This video does NOT contain content from eb!TV, in spite of their illegal claim. Do NOT visit their channel, unless it's to spam them with negative comments! They lie.
This is why back in the day LucasArts adventure games were more favorable to non-gamers than the typical Sierra adventure because LucasArts stuck to one principle: you can't die.
Impressive, I can't say much more, you really put a lot of effort into these.... I'll say skits, your not funny, but you kept me enthralled the entire time, and learned a bit and two. People like you make me proud to be a gamer.
Nice writing! Great points! I love how you empowered the wii for easy-to-learn controls but challenged that it's cutsey art might be a turnoff. But is Prince of Persia the only example you found of an accessible game? I have some non-gamer friends and I always test them with ps3 games like Eden, Flower, Monsters and LittleBigPlanet. Notably, none of them have typical core-gamer themes like fighting with giant swords and sniping people's heads off. But they ARE ps3 games with new control schemes.
Unfortunately, you're not alone. My old roommate spent hours doing a single race thing in one of the Final Fantasy games...when I pointed out how "DoItAgainStupid" (check Shamus' blog for DIAS) that was, he couldn't adequately explain why he kept trying for that "better score" although he believed he needed it.
I can't stand that, and I know I'm not the only one. Dying in a game is similar, but if I'm going to lose half an hour every time I die, I just won't buy your game... Devs take note.
Actually, I find that death or not, having to retry the same obstacle over and over until I get it right is punishment enough--and I'd rather be able to step up and try it again instead of having to spend a lot of time just getting back *to* the obstacle.
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Your comment that after 30 years, 'only' 50% of adults play games is poor. Ask yourself how long it took for TV's to be around before 50% of people watched TV, or how long books had to be around before 50% of people read them. 50% is actually incredible.
of all the videos I have wathed, I think i enjoyed this more. You made some interesting points, and even as a gamer myself, I was never able to articulate my frustration until now. "Its like I am being punished for making a mistake". Excellent video. Well done.
You make a point that controllers are becoming increasingly complicated, but many games use virtually identical control schemes, such as A for jump, B for melee, and X for reload. A new gamer may only have to learn one "complex" game and from there they could extrapolate how to play others.
Reminds me somewhat about what made the Halo series so good. In co-op, if one of you dies, the other guy just has to get to a safe area and you pop right back to life with full ammo and a couple of grenades. This, combined with lots of checkpoints and 4 levels of difficulty, made it incredibly fun while retaining a lot of challenge. You weren't out of the action for more than a minute at a time.
No, Portal is still way too hard. It may seem easy at first, but at the penultmate test the challenge is way too steep for a beginner, and what makes it so hard is that of the multitude of tricks that you can pull off with the portal, only a few are right, but most of all it due to some portal-flinging sequences needing to be done expertly fast. My gf started complaining after half of the game, and fully quit at chamber 18 due to difficulty problems.
Portal was the best game experiance i had so far :) half life 2 and epidodes where cool to. and have you ever played portal predlude? its a mod of portal and fucking hard to beat. i cant beat it only with cheats lol
You got some very good points there, but I do not see your point with the controler. My first console was the Playstation 2, which used the Dualshock 2. And I never EVER had any problems learning the controls of a game. They were pretty simple and logically placed. I even play most games on hard mode (on my ps3/pc) now cause I enjoy the challenge. It's true that a couple of years ago, I would've ran through a game on normal or easy, but eventually, it IS the punishment that makes you better.
@TheStupidguy12 My comment was a YEAR old, way before Youtube added the @ tags to show who you were replying to so that might explain why you thought I was referring to Shamus.
On the other hand, if you'd WATCHED the video, you'd see that nowhere does he talk about playing videogames in 1999 and remembering it so there is no conceivable way my response could have been to him.
With a name like "TheStupidguy12", you'd think watching what you post would be a reflex action, but I guess not
The checkpoint distance and time between death and starting again is near identical in both games. The only difference is one has a brutal death type view and the other simply wisks you back.
people were saying that mirrors edge was one of the best graphicsss ever made but i didnt saw nothing special on that game i though it was dumb the way you coould see only your feet and hands >.>
and WTF you get all upset just because i said a game is stupid??
come on just read a book and them answer this...
and im not fucking american im japanese i studied english for like 7 years and i think i can write and speak very well because you guys at least can understand what im writing...
and the one who needs to die is you getting mad just because of a game \(>.>)/ come on!
im only 15 years old but i feel like i lived for like 150 years grow up kid...
I see what this guy is saying but he's pretty much wrong! It's not the punishment that makes the victory rewarding but the amount of time, effort and mental energy it takes to conquer a games puzzle or mission or boss etc.
If life was easy like these games you want all over the market, then EVERYONE would be elite atheletes, millionaire stock brokers etc.
Its about conquering the things that hold you back! Life doesn't have a "super easy" difficulty setting, so why should games?
Actually...you're missing a key point in this. All this does is make going back and trying the obstacle again easier and quicker. It doesn't in the slightest remove the fact that you *still have to master the obstacle* in order to pass it. Just like making your first basket, you get the reward of finally getting it *right*...and then the concern about whether you can repeat the performance as needed. :-)
if all your reffering to is respawn points or the ammount of tries/lives you have then yes i agree (after playing Jak 3 and current crash bandicoot games, jumping from ledge to ledge to ledge to ledge and then JUST missing the last ledge and getting put back to the START of the level is not fun at all!!!) i was reffereing more to the difficulty level, like in racing games if the oponents are super easy and you win every race with no challenege then it is just that, no challenege!
Alright I am most certainly a hardcore gamer, I must say after playing the latest installment in the Prince of Persia series that its difficult to define. I feel that ubisoft did exactly what it wanted to do. They created an absolutely beautiful world with some of the best looking, most fluid animation I've ever seen, but sadly this game was just far to easy for me. I do think that ShamusYoung makes a valid point; anyone could pick this game up and play it, but they are not marketing like that.
I like your point. I'm a retro gamer using emulators, and nowadays I don't have infinite time. So I'm a "save cheater" (I save the game when i like to and I practice in place, like it's done in the vid, my emu has hotkeys for save and restore). When someone calls me lame for this again, I'll be prepared ;-) I can play through Mario World without losing a single life, Mario is just saved and restored ;-)
I am playing slots at OLVEGAS COM. I win the most money when I play the 5 reel bonus slots. You have to be 21 to play the real money games. They accept players from every country including the United States.
I dont like the end. They take all the freerunning and sneaking they taught you how to do, and threw it out the window, forcing you to fight three million guys at the same time. Well, twelve, but it was still a lot.
I see what you're saying though, up until before that it gradually steps up the difficulty.
It seems prince of persia took the same spirit of the original lucasarts adventures of not killing the player for every wrong move which allowed players to focus on solving puzzles, not avoiding death and starting from the last saved game.
be nice if Wii had some games with a real adult story. then I would might actually get it. However I do like how games are getting shorter because I work two jobs and go to school I don't have time for a 40+ hour RPG any more.
I don't agree with everything in the video but it is certainly a compelling enough argument. The lack of perceived "challenge" is what some places were marking PoP down on; I can't directly comment as I haven't played this version yet unlike all the previous iterations.
Some people take their gaming a bit too seriously >.>
They're not competitive sports, they're leisure at it's pure and finest.
I'd rather have more games that I can play with my friends than have more games that only I can play with the years of gaming experience I've had over them. It's not like there's anything to feel proud about anyway. "Hurr hurr hurr I'm a better gamer than you." Wonderful life accomplishment right there. Think you'll win a scholarship?
I agree with you and yet I do take offence. Wierd, huh? Maybe because I'm a hardcore gamer AND top of my uni year, with scolarship (and no, I am not an IT student). It's not about people being too serious about games - it's about people being not serious about real life.
I was also thinking of how innovative the philosophy is, because I started thinking of other platformer games adopting this method (Mario).
The only knock on Prince of Persia is that the game isn't for the platforming veterans who've mastered all the Tomb Raider games, or were into the previous PoP trilogy. I wasn't one of them, so I gladly accepted the positive and frustration-free experience the game provided, and gave it to my relatives to have fun with.
Flawless presentation. Most sensical analysis of the "never die" feature in this game. Great comparison between learning to play games and learning to play piano. An option to disable or alter the feature would be a good idea too, but it's better in than out.
funny thing, I see the whole no-failure thing in PoP more like an auto-reload button than anything, else, I bet that if they had done away with the scene of elika's hand reaching out for you and instead simply teleported you back to where you were nobody would have complained about being impossible to die in that game.
More people seem to be complaining about the changes to the platforming. Almost everyone I know, loves the Elika hand back to the last platform stuff.
This video really surprised me. I admit I almost laughed out loud when you said Prince of Persia was the most innovative game of 2008, but I sat and listened and I can say you've convinced me. Great job.
Anyway, I guess what I'm trying to say is that games, by definition, usually involve SOMEONE losing, so it's not a matter of making all the games work for everyone more than a matter of everyone looking for the game that's right for them.
It's just like getting picked last for a sport. If you're no good at it, just try something else. Don't cry about it and make everyone else play the same game, but less aggressively or competitively.
This pretty much confirms the idea that the demographic of 'gamers' are quick learners. The fact that some people can pick up a game and learn it quickly and spend the rest of the time enjoying it fits with this perfectly.
However, at the same time, I am a believer that a large part of enjoying a game is the contrast between failure and success. Once every person is capable of all the tasks, what makes you special?
To change 'game' is to redefine 'gamer.' I'm not sure if that's what I want.
(con't from below) What is important about game design is not catering to newcomers by making games with an unusually low amount of challenge, but in having a wide enough window of challenge that includes both the newbies and the aficionados. In fact the game you got the credit music from, Descent 1, has an excellently large challenge window, ranging from Trainee (you can beat the game with your eyes closed) to Insane (nearly impossible even to an expert, without heavy usage of save/load).
I don't really agree with your argument, but the Descent 1 music at the end was a nice surprise!
You do seem to have a point, about modern games not having any challenge windows for newcomers, (look up Chris Crawford), but I think you are missing the idea of "Risk VS Reward". Why am I afraid of a pit if I can fall into it with no consequences? Why am I afraid of anything if it can have no negative effect on me? Being in pseudo-life-and-death situations is one part of gaming that I love.
Well made video, and valid points raised. As my various day jobs for many years have involved user accessibility, of course I agree that niche markets deserve to be expanded in order to grow and diversify.
But I have some other theories as to why they might be going in this direction, and posted a full response on my user blog on Giant Bomb.
While I like the idea of having a no-penalty for players who want to get used to gaming, I'll always like to see the concept of increasing difficulty steps.
That game shown in the video would attract both the casual and the hardcore gamers if there were a difficulty slider regarding the harshness of the setbacks when you die. On one side, there just aren't any, while on the other, it would take you back to the beginning of the level.
Options. Its never a loss of time, just don't forget any
I got what you were saying about the Wii, but it's even harder to learn how to play video games if you're playing a Wii, because the controls and responsiveness are terrible!
I want harder games that take months to master. More and more I see new games released that are so easy it's boring. Deliberately made easy to stop newbs getting frustrated. Talk about a bunch of party weak poopers. Peace.
True. But even those games have a penalty of watching an uninteresting loading screen, while waiting to try again. For some games, that could be a 10 to 20 second penalty, on top of the time working back to where you 'died'.
As well, most games that have anywhere saves are FPS games, which typically have a very high learning curve.
One of the better reflections I've seen in a while. As soon as I started playing PoP this time around I felt something was different and the sensation of not having to load/save is phenomenal and it (partly) made me very much not wanting to stop playing. It gave me a chance to finish it and enjoy the story from beginning to end and be entertained all the way. I'm looking forward to seeing more games in the future designed in a non-interuptive way and having the machine keep track my of progress.
Instead of penalty free gaming I would prefer that the Easy mode got a redesign, for example, you said that we learned to play on a controller with 8 inputs so imagine a game like Rainbow Six Vegas, my dad liked the game but sucked at it because of the complex controllers, if the Easy mode was a more simplefied version of the game he could learn the basics first (no ironsight, no cover system, etc, it would almost play like DOOM, run and shoot). Then he could learn the advanced stuff later.
josemlopes 4 months ago in playlist Mais vídeos de ShamusYoung
very coherent. very accurate. good points made.
no1sjester 6 months ago
very interesting
TheLazEffect 8 months ago
That study quoting 50% gamers, did that include mobile and facebook games, those platforms must have a higher penetration than 50%... And i think the iphone is more intuitive than the wii, which has too many controllers (mote, nunchuk, classic, gamecube, plastic peripherals), whereas the best iphone games require only one finger to manipulate the game world. Talk about accessability, plus it can start out as a smartphone until you're bored one day on a bus and decide to check out this "app stor
bencheshire 8 months ago
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Huskeyyyyy 8 months ago
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guykomasterseb1347 8 months ago
without challenge in a game I just can't have fun. Once I start steamrolling through the game I get bored and lose interest very quickly.
cbuma 9 months ago
@cbuma Most people get really frustrated if they only die a few times in games and prefer to give up instead of working hard to get better.
Thats why many new people that try to play games dont wanna continue play to play game because they dont want to keep dying and get frustrated anymore.
CyberLance26 1 month ago
brb going to get this game for my girlfriend.
lankyGigantic 9 months ago
Nice video man. I totally agree, and I seem to be one of the few people who really enjoyed PoP '08. It entertained me, the story was interesting, the characters were cool (specifically the bosses), and isn't that what gaming is about? To have fun?
EmptyInfinity1 9 months ago
great video dude, wish i found this sooner
Roddy97 9 months ago
wtf prince of pegia was made where i live god burn it
CoolKillerClan 9 months ago
You are very insightful and very well spoken. Very well presented good ideas here!
InVINCEab13 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Every single comment dissing this video has absolutely no idea what Shamus is talking about... Who are you to call a new gamer an "idiot"? Go and pick up a guitar/piano/instrument you've never played, and try to sound coherent. You'll suck, I guarantee it. If we applied the standards we use for videogames on such things, we'd have run out of musicians in the 80's. So shut the fuck up, all you "expert gamers", and lend a hand to those who are trying to pick gaming up. If you like gaming, that is
GarciLP 11 months ago
Every single comment dissing this video has absolutely no idea what Shamus is talking about... Who are you to call a new gamer an "idiot"? Go and pick up a guitar/piano/instrument you've never played, and try to sound coherent. You'll suck, I guarantee it. If we applied the standards we use for videogames on such things, we'd have run out of musicians in the 80's. So shut the fuck up, all you "expert gamers", and lend a hand to those who are trying to pick gaming up. If you like gaming, that is.
GarciLP 11 months ago 29
@GarciLP You are wise in your statement. However, playing videogames picked up my finger dexterity in playing guitar and vice versa. It is an endless loop of skill building. Think of it as skill synergy like in a roleplaying game. Skills in one field can help use other skills. Suffice to say, I actually did have some advantages before ever playing the instrument. It doesn't defy your statement but is more of a supplement.
TheSuperhalofreak 5 months ago
Bullcrap.
Games are made today towards the lowest common denominator.
Games are designed to attract as many low level, unskilled players as possible.
Games today require little thought and no reaction time.
Games are simplified towards idiots - best example is the original Deus Ex vs. the horrifying sequels.
timorekusa 1 year ago
@timorekusa Depth and accessibility are not mutually exclusive.
And it's funny how you seem to think reaction time requirements are in any way indicative of a game's quality. Is I Wanna Be The Guy your golden standard of gaming?
FalseHerald 11 months ago
@timorekusa I know what you mean, and agree to a certain degree.
I played Diablo II: Lord of Destruction online for the first time in years last week. What a great online game it USED to be! Now you just kill the weakest monster or just open a chest and all the items in the virual world fall to the ground to be grabbed! I'd just started the game and my inventory was full after like three kills and a chest!
Damn! What am I, a baby!? It didn't used to be that way!
[Continued in next post....]
WinstonSmith6079 5 months ago
@timorekusa [...continued from last post]
Hell, I remember playing like C64 Telengard and the Ultima games and such where maybe about half the monsters you killed dropped nothing at all, at least in the early stages of such games. You had to get a bit of skillz to get to where the monsters dropped lots and good stuff.
But I also understand what the video says as well: Games were much more "User-Friendly" in the past. Today, the attitudes are all wrong: User-Friendliness is quite a lost art!
WinstonSmith6079 5 months ago
I don't know about you, but I managed to be half decenet at IL-2 Sturmovik, back when I was like ten.
deathgrindcheese 1 year ago
You made a very good point there. Some of my friends wanted to try out and be Samus Aran on the Game Cube, but gave up after a very short time because they had difficulties coping with the controls and landscape and so on.
GaolisVideoLog 1 year ago
A really interesting perspective. I can't say as a long-time PC gamer I would want to go over to a new control system even if everyone else was doing it. I mean, all my friends embraced the 360 because of xbox live etc. although many of them weren't really gamers before this. I'm very attached to keyboard and mouse, specifically the mouse. Game pad analogue sticks just don't cut the mustard when it comes to precision. I find them frustrating to use.
Jallenbah 1 year ago
Actually the Call of Duty series pretty much got my whole school into video games. Most of the people around me played casually on their PS2, playing some Simpsons game or some racing game - but when Modern Warfare came out - people who'd never played FPSes or harded games were thrown in. And hell, most of them are better than me now.
tigranater 1 year ago
@tigranater where you listening to him at all. not children. ADULTS. wii. princew of persia. now dont get me wrong. i know what you are talking about. COD is a good game and is easy to play. its 4 settings and its epic story lines. but multey player. thats how they are losing sales. Halo for instince. Its fun and easy to play. well sorta. any way, but look. its matchmaking is a peice of crap. all the weopons are the same damage and stuff. not only that but the people who play it. just the fact..
whoneedsskittles 1 year ago
@whoneedsskittles Whoa what the hell man. I totally agree with Shamus, all I'm saying is that Call of Duty did a good job in my community. No need to put Halo into scene as if it is better at getting sales (which it isn't evidently).
tigranater 1 year ago
@tigranater lol
whoneedsskittles 1 year ago
@tigranater of people who; cant play, hackers, douchbags, dumbasses and even pros. they can ruin the intire game. If microsoft and who ever made ps3 get along, they can make a game that is both fun and easy to play. This comment will now start flame wars
whoneedsskittles 1 year ago
...into corruption). Add to that poor dialogue (Yahtzee put this best), the lack of life (despite there being actual guards in the intro) and the disconnect of the platforming world with any realistic living or "market" place, subtract any relation with Persia and you have the make-up for an incredibly disappointing game.
If the game world wasn't beautiful, it would be firmly on every hardcore gamer's 'stay away' list.
K' I'm done. For those that can enjoy this, do, but don't call it 'best'.
elus89 1 year ago
I just want to add that I shouldn't go so far as to say what kind of gamer you are. I know from your background you've played big-time multiplayer games and so you've been around the block.
I just really believe that praise for this game is easily misplaced and the assumption that a certain game is 'good' for a certain player(in this case new), especially when you're NOT that player, is just as poor as my own.
And I don't mean to be heavy-handed (as ironic or inconsistent it may seem).
elus89 1 year ago
yea this vid is so true
im a major rpg'er just cuz i cant play reaction games like god of war, prince of persia, jak
shit like that
but id still wanna try and play this prince of persia just 2 try it
Shredder1994 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
...into corruption). Add to that poor dialogue (Yahtzee put this best), the lack of life (despite there being actual guards in the intro) and the disconnect of the platforming world with any realistic living or "market" place, subtract any relation with Persia and you have the make-up for an incredibly disappointing game.
If the game world wasn't beautiful, it would be firmly on every hardcore gamer's 'stay away' list.
K' I'm done. For those that can enjoy this, do, but don't call it 'best'.
elus89 1 year ago
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elus89 1 year ago
... in that the enemies regain abstract amounts of health (often to full).
Some simple changes (perhaps in a hard mode) could change the wall running to a dynamic movement whilst holding a button to increase immersion may have helped this game.
None of these complaints even addresses the games awful, convoluted story, of which you have no real influence(The princess addresses the citizens and life of the city as the 'real' story and you have no way of resolving the issues which brought it...
elus89 1 year ago
Comment removed
elus89 1 year ago
... that cause the game to go wrong for me. Along with the hand-holding, goes the games shoddy one-on-one combat situations. It's really more a mini-game, separate from the games mainstay mechanics, as you con do none of the attack animations outside of combat, platforming has virtually no influence (you can do no wall-running for instance) it's chopped up with quick-time events (do new gamers like this?) and unlike the games notion of quick correction, contains the closest element to dying...
elus89 1 year ago
... or Megaman which is all about precision placement of shots (combat) and jump timing/input.
For Prince of Persia however, it's all about choosing the proper input (the four face buttons) to react to your situation. What makes the game easy is that these decision often only come about 3 or 4 seconds apart as the game is filled with cooked animations and sticky points to correct your decisions to fit within the games precepts. It's these cooked animations and almost combat free experience...
elus89 1 year ago
...I would suggest acquiring games such as the Sonic or Megaman collections for PS2. Both have the controller lag problems negated, and in Sonic's case, a save-state, which solves many newcomer issues, but still allows punishment to entice a feeling of challenge. --
These older platformers embrace their simple controller design and yet have important dynamic influence. For Sonic it's the varying degrees of speed and momentum, and how small changes in input can solve it's platform problems...
elus89 1 year ago
...dynamics. For me, what I would recommend to new gamers is just, in fact, what I started out with, the Sonic series. The differences in between the two games design philosophies is actually quite staggering, despite both of them being primarily platformers.
--stray but related complaint-- I find the input PoP (2008) (though the series in general as well) to be quite appalling, which is probably both due to the the game and wireless controller now mandated as normal. For this reason...
elus89 1 year ago
I'm a bid fan of a Shamus' work, I find myself constantly agreeing with him on the articles he writes for the Escapist, not to mention his decent sense of humour. With this game and video demonstration however I find myself in vehement disagreement with him. I think it's the difference in the type of gamers we are and thus the tenets to what makes a game 'good' or appealing. It seems he finds completion of story and 'game-like' elements to be fulfilling whereas I prefer depth in gameplay...
elus89 1 year ago
..Did you say drive a Japanese schoolgirl? 3:37. Naughty naughty.
TheZarow 1 year ago
Just finished playing PoP 2008 today, I was hooked. I found it addictive, rewarding and I enjoyed the simple, but heart-string hitting, story. The characters were extremely well-written and, while it's not perfect, it's a great wee game. I was thinking the EXACT same thing as I was playing it. This would be a gaming masterpiece to the uninitiated. Instead of feeling venerated by the usual challenges of video games, they would surely feel relaxed and in control while playing PoP 2008. :)
AHiFi 1 year ago
lol casual players playing wii = gamers?
lol...
defragen1 1 year ago
pop=epic fail
karagkarh 1 year ago
so... people are such kind of creatures... THEY CAN'T STUDY EFFECTIVELY WITHOUT PUNISHMENTS ^_^ Thay just won't learn the lesson. The half of what you just say here is a fckng nonsence... What kind of victory is it when it's no chance to lose??? If it's not HARD as hell - where's the pleasure from the process? From studying? From crossing borderlines of your own abilities...
wtf are u talking about? Maybe I understood u in a wrong way or something?...
PRINCE OF PERSIA IS SHIT
karagkarh 1 year ago 2
@karagkarh For an experienced gamer overcoming a challenging game where death has real consequence is a satisfying experience, for a new gamer, just being able to finish a level delivers that same sense of fulfillment. That is why games need variable levels of difficulty, to tailor the challenge to suit the player. Prince of Persia is little fun for you, because it is too easy, just like a game where you need 4 hands to play it would be no fun for you because it would be too hard.
romel91 1 year ago
man... duh
I've played Prince of Persia (latest)
beutiful, easy PIECE OF SHIT I GET BORED after 1 hour of playing THIS
btw I'm playing videogames since they are appeared
with 1rst computer ever sold in my fckng country
we used audiotapes as discs and my magnitola as a drive
karagkarh 1 year ago 2
about eight minutes too long
funktapus 1 year ago
I should keep this in mind for the game I'm gonna make in the future lol
Loved it fully keke
sylversphere 1 year ago
great video ..!
bhaveshandyou 1 year ago
Great video, you present a very insightful view on the subject and I agree with you on many points
But I believe that there is something to be said of the enjoyment we get from beating unfavorable odds
When there are no consequences for failure, victory loses appeal, you get no gratification for winning and most of all its a fleeting experience
We all have memories of moments on our gaming history when we succeeded against the odds and got that impossible victory and we remember them for of it
neveSykcuL 1 year ago
Honestly I thought the entire game was crap.
...Ok, maybe I was just nostalgic about the Sands of Time but I still hated it.
phishwithextracheese 1 year ago
ever heard of system shock2.
optional penalty free gaming which bioshock copied and indeed many of the programmers are the same.
honorhc 2 years ago
Is that music from descent (lvl 13 I believe) playing on an OPL3? They way it is meant to be played?
Well, for the first truely 3D FPS, the single player experience was... eh. But despite the controller learning curve, it is the first FPS I played regularly, ever. 5 way+ lanpartys of cat-and mouse gameplay and cleverly hidden uber weapons: awesome!
QUINTIX256 2 years ago
Outstanding lesson here, Shamus. Have you had any training as a teacher or instructor? You've developed quite a deft pedagogical touch.
LongTailGamer 2 years ago
Although you are completely right, the elements that make PoP appealing to new gamers are exactly the ones that make me hate the game. I don´t want to be able to do anything without getting punished, I expect consequences for my failures. It feels to me that I can get past a passage just by stubbornly pushing forward again and again until I get it, ultimately not learning my lesson.
Re1s1 2 years ago
I need something that shows me that I have to put effort into something to achieve my goal, thus making me feel rewarded. It makes me know that I have to try hard to get somewhere. It got pretty dull after I realised that I couldn´t die, even the last boss is unfailable and that´s what killed the game for me. Wii Sports is more challenging than PoP in that aspect.
Re1s1 2 years ago
Ninja Gai-DAN.
GAIDAN. FUCK IT, HITLER WAS RIGHT. WE NEED TO CLEANSE THE INFERIORS, WITH FLAME.
ALL HAIL SATAN, LORD OF A THOUSAND SORROWS
purplefuzzythings 2 years ago
And then you have some gamers with a philosophy on what gaming should be, that is filled with contradictory statements. For instance, they appreciate the massive growth of the industry but also think Wii and its games are "killing gaming".
ccricers 2 years ago
I think the high learning curve for non-gamers playing "hardcore gamers" is what gets games pigeonholed as being anti-social activities by some, because the barrier for entry puts gamers in an exclusive mile-high club. It's a social activity to the gamers but not to outsiders. Have 90% market saturation and we wouldn't see video games as an alienating experience.
ccricers 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Fucking bullshit. Most games have easy or very easy. Which even my 5 year old niece can play(literally).
2Hx 2 years ago
@2Hx
yeah you get infinte energy, lives, check point every room now damn near everygame. one reason i dont bother buying anything anymore just waste my money theses days
deluxedookie 1 year ago
I've been gaming for 16 years since I was 5, and I've got to admit, the less punishment I get for death ina game, the more likely I am to play it.
AFreak2005 2 years ago 5
exactly why GT5 ain't a game and frza 3 is.
635574 2 years ago
pop was boring as fuck... no game over = no challenge
chinezeFURY 2 years ago
PoP was awful. The characters had no depth, the guy was a complete douchebag and the levels were linear. My first platformer was on the ps2, it was Ratchet and clank (#1). That game wasn't difficult, but it had humour in and was well received by critics. It goes to show a game catered to everyone can actually be good. Ratchet and clank gave you 4 (?) lives and plenty of chances to get more, it didn't punish you either! But it did give you a chance to challenge yourself. Pop does not.
FIERYdaemon 2 years ago 7
Comment removed
ccricers 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
stupid video. I hope you play Demon's Souls and realize how much more innovative and gratifying it is.
Prince of persia doesn't suck because its easy. Prince of persia is boring because basically every obstacle is linear. Pretty much no room for creativity or experimentation. A game is not innovative because it doesn't punish people. Not too mention how many dumb shits who buy Wii's have them collecting dust. Play Demon's Souls you vagina.
Halcyon000 2 years ago
I recently played through Majora's Mask and at the very end on the moon there's a part where you can get a piece of heart if you roll as Goron Link. You must be extremely precise and not screw up or you start back at the beginning. It took me a good 15-20 min of trial and error and falling in pits, but the feeling of getting that heart piece was awesome. That's why I like challenges.
mudorahoshi 2 years ago
PoP is the ONLY game I'veintroduced my Girlfriend to that she has played, enjoyed, re-played without me even being about and actually completed before I did. I think you've hit the nail on the head as well, as to why this has happened with Prince of Persia.
LaLaLaflobble 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I don't want to post a comment but I relly feel like i need to on this one. the reason that olny roughly 50% of the adult population in america is gameing is quite simply because olny 50% of the adult population is male. no to say that there are not female gamers, but the subject matter of almost all video games is very clearly aimed tworads a male demigraphic.
XargontheFallen 2 years ago
So are you saying that those 50% of adults who game are mostly male? Thus, mostly all male adults are gamers? I would challenge you to take a survey in your local area of men and see exactly how many of them are gamers.
mudorahoshi 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I'm sorry but Prince of Persia is so fucking boring, I'm not that great at them, but no deaths? That's beyond retarded, there is no victory in redoing anything you fail over and over. It's like save stating through an old mega man. IT IS A TERRIBLE GAME, I played for a temples. They were boring, had bad design, the fighting was pathetic, and the dialogue was just shameful. I lost my respect for you sir, how could you endorse this piece of shit?!
iWinxtehxinternets 2 years ago
Spending more time being punished than being entertained. Huh, sounds a lot like running after the soccer ball after missing a shot, rolling up your yo-yo after not doing a trick correctly or holding your hurting knee after failing to do an ollie to me.
I really don't think that's the proble
Sorry, got bored with this topic.
paulunga 2 years ago
Kudos for the Descent 1 Level one Theme.
First game i played,i still enjoy it with emulators.
Inderrix 2 years ago
This guys needs to talk about Monster Hunter.
RaccoonPaw 2 years ago
I just starting playing a few days ago, and have spent as much time on online-walkthroughs as playing O.o
runedeadthA 2 years ago
Stop playing it.
It sucks.
RaccoonPaw 2 years ago
The PS3 face buttons are not pressure sensitive.
You're thinking of the PS2.
RaccoonPaw 2 years ago
I was 9 years old when I stared video gaming and my first real video game was Call of Duty. I suggest that if you have a friend that is not into video games put them on a PC or Mac then they will not fell so "shy" around it all. Then when they are ready put them on a PS3 or 360 then they should get the hang of the whole gaming concept quicker.
FigmentsNetwork 2 years ago
I loathe eb!TV.
canitbebluetrue 2 years ago
dude, i never thought about it like that. is prince of persia available on xbox 360?
rakasn 2 years ago
Yes it is.
HelixEthie 2 years ago
This video does NOT contain content from eb!TV, in spite of their illegal claim. Do NOT visit their channel, unless it's to spam them with negative comments! They lie.
jdog 2 years ago 21
Right on. eb!TV is inappropriately using Youtube's non-robust intellectual-property complaint system to get free traffic. Don't give it to them!
coderedge 2 years ago
This is why back in the day LucasArts adventure games were more favorable to non-gamers than the typical Sierra adventure because LucasArts stuck to one principle: you can't die.
dunetiger 2 years ago
Impressive, I can't say much more, you really put a lot of effort into these.... I'll say skits, your not funny, but you kept me enthralled the entire time, and learned a bit and two. People like you make me proud to be a gamer.
zswords 2 years ago 2
i love how one of the controls for "driving an automobile2 is giving the finger.
Alexei3214 2 years ago
Nice writing! Great points! I love how you empowered the wii for easy-to-learn controls but challenged that it's cutsey art might be a turnoff. But is Prince of Persia the only example you found of an accessible game? I have some non-gamer friends and I always test them with ps3 games like Eden, Flower, Monsters and LittleBigPlanet. Notably, none of them have typical core-gamer themes like fighting with giant swords and sniping people's heads off. But they ARE ps3 games with new control schemes.
lackthereof0 2 years ago
Actually, I prefer to be punished when I die in a video game, it makes overcoming the challenge that I failed at more rewarding.
weaver2109 2 years ago
Unfortunately, you're not alone. My old roommate spent hours doing a single race thing in one of the Final Fantasy games...when I pointed out how "DoItAgainStupid" (check Shamus' blog for DIAS) that was, he couldn't adequately explain why he kept trying for that "better score" although he believed he needed it.
I can't stand that, and I know I'm not the only one. Dying in a game is similar, but if I'm going to lose half an hour every time I die, I just won't buy your game... Devs take note.
Rosseloh 2 years ago
that was in reply to weaver2109, since it doesn't seem to be showing up correctly for me.
Rosseloh 2 years ago
Actually, I find that death or not, having to retry the same obstacle over and over until I get it right is punishment enough--and I'd rather be able to step up and try it again instead of having to spend a lot of time just getting back *to* the obstacle.
VulpisFoxfire 2 years ago 2
finaly some Prince Of Persia love. I'm pretty good at platformers but I had a blast with this game. Recommend it to anyone. Its just beatiful.
fantasticmoose 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I think everything that is said in this video has already been said by Nintendo, specially since Nintendo DS and Wii appeared.
bulbastre 2 years ago
i started on 360 and played all day at 5 beat lost planet in a day not hard
sasorirules912 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Your comment that after 30 years, 'only' 50% of adults play games is poor. Ask yourself how long it took for TV's to be around before 50% of people watched TV, or how long books had to be around before 50% of people read them. 50% is actually incredible.
skinlo01 2 years ago
this is an interesting video. 4/5.
btw, i dont think i'd like prince of persia cuz it seems too easy, i like my dificulty a little harder.
littleboyred1 2 years ago
and that's exactly his point!
lineikatabs 2 years ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
but how is this an innovative game?
Proton29Mass 2 years ago
of all the videos I have wathed, I think i enjoyed this more. You made some interesting points, and even as a gamer myself, I was never able to articulate my frustration until now. "Its like I am being punished for making a mistake". Excellent video. Well done.
junior3382 2 years ago 3
You've brought up some very interesting points in this video, and I thank you for sharing your opinion.
RJ815 2 years ago 4
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Prince of Persia isn't charming, unless you like hollywood dreck, you retard.
Play Sands of Time if you want charming witty writing, not the white washed garbage that is Prince of Persia 2008.
ShamusYoung, you're a goddamn casual and need to shut the fuck up.
Zen444 2 years ago
its good that you're confident in your opinion but you don't have to be rude about it -.-
Direwolf56 2 years ago 5
You make a point that controllers are becoming increasingly complicated, but many games use virtually identical control schemes, such as A for jump, B for melee, and X for reload. A new gamer may only have to learn one "complex" game and from there they could extrapolate how to play others.
ToothyMcshark 2 years ago 3
Reminds me somewhat about what made the Halo series so good. In co-op, if one of you dies, the other guy just has to get to a safe area and you pop right back to life with full ammo and a couple of grenades. This, combined with lots of checkpoints and 4 levels of difficulty, made it incredibly fun while retaining a lot of challenge. You weren't out of the action for more than a minute at a time.
joeyhndc 2 years ago
No, Portal is still way too hard. It may seem easy at first, but at the penultmate test the challenge is way too steep for a beginner, and what makes it so hard is that of the multitude of tricks that you can pull off with the portal, only a few are right, but most of all it due to some portal-flinging sequences needing to be done expertly fast. My gf started complaining after half of the game, and fully quit at chamber 18 due to difficulty problems.
2hakkabakka 2 years ago
can u get this for ps1
teeheeprod 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
he...he...ha... HAHAHAHA!!! PRINCE OF PERSIA FOR PS1?! ARE YOU KIDDING US?! HAHAHAHA!
littleboyred1 2 years ago
Portal was the best game experiance i had so far :) half life 2 and epidodes where cool to. and have you ever played portal predlude? its a mod of portal and fucking hard to beat. i cant beat it only with cheats lol
YouShitBricks 2 years ago
You got some very good points there, but I do not see your point with the controler. My first console was the Playstation 2, which used the Dualshock 2. And I never EVER had any problems learning the controls of a game. They were pretty simple and logically placed. I even play most games on hard mode (on my ps3/pc) now cause I enjoy the challenge. It's true that a couple of years ago, I would've ran through a game on normal or easy, but eventually, it IS the punishment that makes you better.
bottenbreker24 2 years ago
I don't like the new crowd.
TheMinskyTerrorist 2 years ago
New Prince of Persia is ass. Sands of Time forever.
Zen444 2 years ago
Ha ha!!! I have played with a controller for 10 years! And I'm a 12 year old!!! ^.^ Me and my dad used to play Spyro all the time!
PuffSan811 2 years ago
so... in 1999 when you were two years old you were playing videogames? and you remember this?
mesmorino 2 years ago 7
@mesmorino Shamus Young is like 30-something.
TheStupidguy12 1 year ago
@TheStupidguy12 My comment was a YEAR old, way before Youtube added the @ tags to show who you were replying to so that might explain why you thought I was referring to Shamus.
On the other hand, if you'd WATCHED the video, you'd see that nowhere does he talk about playing videogames in 1999 and remembering it so there is no conceivable way my response could have been to him.
With a name like "TheStupidguy12", you'd think watching what you post would be a reflex action, but I guess not
mesmorino 1 year ago
cool video, raises some interesting questions... keep them coming
stigmaHATE 2 years ago
The checkpoint distance and time between death and starting again is near identical in both games. The only difference is one has a brutal death type view and the other simply wisks you back.
BoredDan7 2 years ago
amazing
vcdp 2 years ago
people were saying that mirrors edge was one of the best graphicsss ever made but i didnt saw nothing special on that game i though it was dumb the way you coould see only your feet and hands >.>
yurikgaara 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
My god you're stupid. Look at how you write. How can you possible expect to have your opinion heard when you present it in such a crude fashion.
You're the fat guy who sits getting fatter all day and bitching at sportsmen for their poor performance.
You sicken me and everyone else around you.
Go die.
Anonymous4521 2 years ago
WTH man...
i just said i didnt like the game
im fat so what??? but i dont sit all day getting fatter >.>
i train with my friends everyday and i have the greater stamina among them ....
and no im not slow im pretty fast for a fat guy ok??
and im not that fat i have only 1.65 tall and my weight is 60 KG >.>
yurikgaara 2 years ago 2
and WTF you get all upset just because i said a game is stupid??
come on just read a book and them answer this...
and im not fucking american im japanese i studied english for like 7 years and i think i can write and speak very well because you guys at least can understand what im writing...
and the one who needs to die is you getting mad just because of a game \(>.>)/ come on!
im only 15 years old but i feel like i lived for like 150 years grow up kid...
yurikgaara 2 years ago
PWNT.
majoraoftime 2 years ago
thast i probably the smartest thig ive heard this month
ultrabean 2 years ago
i like the new prince of persia, but its sooooo gay that you have to play the whole level backwards again for those lightseeds
SuperstarAnDaboyshow 3 years ago
I see what this guy is saying but he's pretty much wrong! It's not the punishment that makes the victory rewarding but the amount of time, effort and mental energy it takes to conquer a games puzzle or mission or boss etc.
If life was easy like these games you want all over the market, then EVERYONE would be elite atheletes, millionaire stock brokers etc.
Its about conquering the things that hold you back! Life doesn't have a "super easy" difficulty setting, so why should games?
chenzo717 3 years ago
Because games are an escape from life. They aren't really comparable.
dungeonmunky 2 years ago
Actually...you're missing a key point in this. All this does is make going back and trying the obstacle again easier and quicker. It doesn't in the slightest remove the fact that you *still have to master the obstacle* in order to pass it. Just like making your first basket, you get the reward of finally getting it *right*...and then the concern about whether you can repeat the performance as needed. :-)
VulpisFoxfire 2 years ago
if all your reffering to is respawn points or the ammount of tries/lives you have then yes i agree (after playing Jak 3 and current crash bandicoot games, jumping from ledge to ledge to ledge to ledge and then JUST missing the last ledge and getting put back to the START of the level is not fun at all!!!) i was reffereing more to the difficulty level, like in racing games if the oponents are super easy and you win every race with no challenege then it is just that, no challenege!
chenzo717 2 years ago
I think that was part of his point.
LaLaLaflobble 2 years ago
Enjoy being sucked back to lvl 1 on Ghouls and Ghosts, Nintendude viral marketer.
JGood1776 3 years ago
Alright I am most certainly a hardcore gamer, I must say after playing the latest installment in the Prince of Persia series that its difficult to define. I feel that ubisoft did exactly what it wanted to do. They created an absolutely beautiful world with some of the best looking, most fluid animation I've ever seen, but sadly this game was just far to easy for me. I do think that ShamusYoung makes a valid point; anyone could pick this game up and play it, but they are not marketing like that.
night76 3 years ago
I like your point. I'm a retro gamer using emulators, and nowadays I don't have infinite time. So I'm a "save cheater" (I save the game when i like to and I practice in place, like it's done in the vid, my emu has hotkeys for save and restore). When someone calls me lame for this again, I'll be prepared ;-) I can play through Mario World without losing a single life, Mario is just saved and restored ;-)
Smurfolisk 3 years ago
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betty2165323 3 years ago
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man, mirrors edge isnt the most innovative game but its not a bleeding pile of shit like prince of persia.
frostytheaussie 3 years ago
What about assassin's creed?
It's work up. Step by step. So it's difficult only at the end.
bereth14 3 years ago
I dont like the end. They take all the freerunning and sneaking they taught you how to do, and threw it out the window, forcing you to fight three million guys at the same time. Well, twelve, but it was still a lot.
I see what you're saying though, up until before that it gradually steps up the difficulty.
dungeonmunky 2 years ago
It seems prince of persia took the same spirit of the original lucasarts adventures of not killing the player for every wrong move which allowed players to focus on solving puzzles, not avoiding death and starting from the last saved game.
Draconis888 3 years ago 2
Great Video, you speak some real truth about the reasons we dont have more gamers.
genrotora 3 years ago
be nice if Wii had some games with a real adult story. then I would might actually get it. However I do like how games are getting shorter because I work two jobs and go to school I don't have time for a 40+ hour RPG any more.
Starcutter20 3 years ago
unfortunately this game isn't even available for the wii...
ranona77 3 years ago
wat system is prince of persia on?
hieroimp 3 years ago
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xbox 360 , ps3 , pc
alexyeung9 3 years ago
ninja gaiden isnt to bad im not a gamer and i was able to pass it, it wasnt easy but it wasnt ridiculous
hieroimp 3 years ago
I don't agree with everything in the video but it is certainly a compelling enough argument. The lack of perceived "challenge" is what some places were marking PoP down on; I can't directly comment as I haven't played this version yet unlike all the previous iterations.
Mayhemers 3 years ago
8 buttons? I learned with 5! Atari 2600. And what about paddle controllers? :)
teachme325 3 years ago
Some people take their gaming a bit too seriously >.>
They're not competitive sports, they're leisure at it's pure and finest.
I'd rather have more games that I can play with my friends than have more games that only I can play with the years of gaming experience I've had over them. It's not like there's anything to feel proud about anyway. "Hurr hurr hurr I'm a better gamer than you." Wonderful life accomplishment right there. Think you'll win a scholarship?
rojocero 3 years ago 5
I agree with you and yet I do take offence. Wierd, huh? Maybe because I'm a hardcore gamer AND top of my uni year, with scolarship (and no, I am not an IT student). It's not about people being too serious about games - it's about people being not serious about real life.
mornmeril 3 years ago
Hey, Carmack has made some fun games!
ufee 3 years ago
I was also thinking of how innovative the philosophy is, because I started thinking of other platformer games adopting this method (Mario).
The only knock on Prince of Persia is that the game isn't for the platforming veterans who've mastered all the Tomb Raider games, or were into the previous PoP trilogy. I wasn't one of them, so I gladly accepted the positive and frustration-free experience the game provided, and gave it to my relatives to have fun with.
moeezS 3 years ago
Flawless presentation. Most sensical analysis of the "never die" feature in this game. Great comparison between learning to play games and learning to play piano. An option to disable or alter the feature would be a good idea too, but it's better in than out.
JimboJones1230 3 years ago
funny thing, I see the whole no-failure thing in PoP more like an auto-reload button than anything, else, I bet that if they had done away with the scene of elika's hand reaching out for you and instead simply teleported you back to where you were nobody would have complained about being impossible to die in that game.
Wuanslm 3 years ago
If you kept that concept, or even kept elika's hand, but you only had FIVE lives people would complain sooo much about the difficulty.
10electro01 3 years ago
More people seem to be complaining about the changes to the platforming. Almost everyone I know, loves the Elika hand back to the last platform stuff.
moeezS 3 years ago
This video really surprised me. I admit I almost laughed out loud when you said Prince of Persia was the most innovative game of 2008, but I sat and listened and I can say you've convinced me. Great job.
TriumphantDachshund 3 years ago 2
Anyway, I guess what I'm trying to say is that games, by definition, usually involve SOMEONE losing, so it's not a matter of making all the games work for everyone more than a matter of everyone looking for the game that's right for them.
It's just like getting picked last for a sport. If you're no good at it, just try something else. Don't cry about it and make everyone else play the same game, but less aggressively or competitively.
Nightblade36 3 years ago
This pretty much confirms the idea that the demographic of 'gamers' are quick learners. The fact that some people can pick up a game and learn it quickly and spend the rest of the time enjoying it fits with this perfectly.
However, at the same time, I am a believer that a large part of enjoying a game is the contrast between failure and success. Once every person is capable of all the tasks, what makes you special?
To change 'game' is to redefine 'gamer.' I'm not sure if that's what I want.
Nightblade36 3 years ago
(con't from below) What is important about game design is not catering to newcomers by making games with an unusually low amount of challenge, but in having a wide enough window of challenge that includes both the newbies and the aficionados. In fact the game you got the credit music from, Descent 1, has an excellently large challenge window, ranging from Trainee (you can beat the game with your eyes closed) to Insane (nearly impossible even to an expert, without heavy usage of save/load).
Sahuagin 3 years ago 3
I don't really agree with your argument, but the Descent 1 music at the end was a nice surprise!
You do seem to have a point, about modern games not having any challenge windows for newcomers, (look up Chris Crawford), but I think you are missing the idea of "Risk VS Reward". Why am I afraid of a pit if I can fall into it with no consequences? Why am I afraid of anything if it can have no negative effect on me? Being in pseudo-life-and-death situations is one part of gaming that I love.
Sahuagin 3 years ago 4
Well made video, and valid points raised. As my various day jobs for many years have involved user accessibility, of course I agree that niche markets deserve to be expanded in order to grow and diversify.
But I have some other theories as to why they might be going in this direction, and posted a full response on my user blog on Giant Bomb.
Brackynews 3 years ago
While I like the idea of having a no-penalty for players who want to get used to gaming, I'll always like to see the concept of increasing difficulty steps.
That game shown in the video would attract both the casual and the hardcore gamers if there were a difficulty slider regarding the harshness of the setbacks when you die. On one side, there just aren't any, while on the other, it would take you back to the beginning of the level.
Options. Its never a loss of time, just don't forget any
meaford91 3 years ago 3
I got what you were saying about the Wii, but it's even harder to learn how to play video games if you're playing a Wii, because the controls and responsiveness are terrible!
TheMustacheHero 3 years ago
I want harder games that take months to master. More and more I see new games released that are so easy it's boring. Deliberately made easy to stop newbs getting frustrated. Talk about a bunch of party weak poopers. Peace.
JasonJJasonJ 3 years ago
GRATZ PRO!
juyran 3 years ago
Only problem with your theory are all the games where you can save at any time you like. Otherwise, great video, 5/5.
thegmanyo 3 years ago
True. But even those games have a penalty of watching an uninteresting loading screen, while waiting to try again. For some games, that could be a 10 to 20 second penalty, on top of the time working back to where you 'died'.
As well, most games that have anywhere saves are FPS games, which typically have a very high learning curve.
VerticalEvent 3 years ago
This was intended for thegmanyo's comment below:
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thegmanyo (5 days ago)
Only problem with your theory are all the games where you can save at any time you like. Otherwise, great video, 5/5.
VerticalEvent 3 years ago
One of the better reflections I've seen in a while. As soon as I started playing PoP this time around I felt something was different and the sensation of not having to load/save is phenomenal and it (partly) made me very much not wanting to stop playing. It gave me a chance to finish it and enjoy the story from beginning to end and be entertained all the way. I'm looking forward to seeing more games in the future designed in a non-interuptive way and having the machine keep track my of progress.
8bitcrash 3 years ago
Best thing on the net, its all true that he says there.
attacke 3 years ago
Wonderful.
bladebot 3 years ago