Hall of fame players,Gm's,Coaches and hockey analyst all voted Gretzky as the #1 player of ALL time.Lemeiux was ranked 4th.I would agree that Mario was arguably the most naturally talented player ever,but Gretzky was better based on his consistency and longevity.61 records,9 mvp's,10 scoring titles and 4 cups is hard to argue against.And all his Oiler teammates will tell you that it was Gretzky that made them better.Case closed.
Mario is the better talent - dominated with a broken back, bad knees, hodgkins disease/kimotherapy - Gretzky had an enforcer his entire career, gave him more space to play (McSorley being the main one) - Mario played for ONE team, Gretzky was traded how many times? If Mario was as healthy as Gretzky was, he would have the records, not Wayne.
@java6997 You do not know a thing about hockey! It is ok to argue who is better and even include the likes of Bobby Orr, Jacques Plante and others but to say that any of these isn't even close is showing the maturity of a diaper wearer. All black and white, here's my choice, everyone else is stupid. Geez! Mario was great when hurt and outstanding when playing with a bad team. Don't you even dare saying the comparison is not warranted. Of course, I take it all back if you are 4.
1: Mario had lots of natural talent, but his work ethic was poor. He ate junk food and did not exercise. His injuries are, in large part, due to his own failure to keep in shape.
2: You can't say "what if". Mario COULD HAVE done this, and COULD HAVE done that...but he didn't, and Gretzky DID.
3: Part of being great is DURABILITY. 99 had it, 66 did not. And Mario fans seem to think #99 never had an injury. In 1991 his back was wrecked in the Canada Cup, he was never the same after.
@LetsGoRangers1994Cup And how exactly do you know that? Were you at the trainer's table or a coaching assistant? How do you score as he did (nearly 2 pts a game played, way better than Gretzky) if you have bad work ethics. People who make millions doing a sport don't take a year off with the manager's blessing if there is not a problem... People don't defer 25 to 30 million in salary if they have a bad attitude. Grow up and admire both for what they brought to the game. Bobby Orr too!
@LetsGoRangers1994Cup There is a big difference in getting injured when you are 30 and past your prime and still playing 78 games that season (Wayne) and being injured at 25 (Mario) before your prime and only playing 26 games that season. Back surgeries and cancer at 28 during the midst of his prime allowed him to play 22 games that season, and at 29 he had to sit out the entire season. At 31 yrs old he retired for 3 and a half seasons.
@LetsGoRangers1994Cup Do not compare Wayne's injury at 30 to Mario being forced to retire at 31 because of Cancer and back surgeries. From age 24 to age 35 (12 seasons) he only played in 420 games, participating in 8 of the 12 seasons. From age 24 to 35 (12 seasons) Wayne played 842 games and the least amount of games he was limited to in a season was 45. Do not compare Wayne's injury at 30 to Mario being forced to retire at 31 because of Cancer and back surgeries.
@LetsGoRangers1994Cup Wayne was blessed with the greatest career ever and Lemieux was blessed with the most talent and skill, there is no doubt about that. Lemieux took over the scoring title in the 1987-1988 season when he was a kid at 22 with very little talent on his team to work with while Gretzky was 26 and still playing with the talented players from the Oilers that he came into the league with. Skewed statistics mean nothing, facts are facts.
@LetsGoRangers1994Cup Forgot to mention that when Mario came back after retiring for 3.5 seasons at age 35, he was still considered the best player in the league, a title Gretzky lost to Lemieux when Mario was 22-23 years old and Wayne was in his prime at 26-27 years old.
and by the way..there is no argument..never should be...What did Gretz say on his retirement?....he was fortunate to be on the ice with the greatest hockey player ever....ever..There is no argument..Most gifted hockey player #66..I will die before we see another 50 in 50 goal scorer..think about it sometime
Let's see who the great one had playing beside him in his big point years..Yurri Curry,Messier,Linseman,Essa...the list goes on and on for Edmonton..Mario Lemiuex had a call up named Rob Brown..Please..Lets quote a King's player...A fire hydrant could score 50 goals with Lemieux..Don't even compare...Pure talent
Mario Lemieux is my all time favorite player ever. He would of had more points than Gretzky but look at how much more games Gretzky played than Lemieux....
@EANHLSPORTSTRON96 why??? fastest to 1000 points -gretzky...fastest to 2nd thousand points -gretzky he got his 2nd thousand faster than mario got his first thousand, gretzky was also faster to 100, 200, 300, 400, 500 600 and 700 goals...the more games you play the lower the point total gets thats just facts...let me know ehn someone else is the leading scorer in the nhl in 2 consecutive decades...lemieux spent a shortened career playing catchup gretzky had no one left to chase...
If you account for all the games Lemiuex missed, and look at the points he could have had, his numbers are very close to Gretzky's. And the scary thing is, he was never really 100% when he did play. It may be impossible to tell who was better but one things for certain, they were the two greatest players in hockey history, hands down.
The main argument for those who think Lemieux was the better player is that Lemieux never had a great name, while Wayne did. Lemieux only had a bad team in his first few seasons, by the late 80s, he started playing with guys like Coffey, Jagr, Francis, Tocchet, Recchi and Trottier. Those guys are darned close to being as good as Gretzky's teamates. The one argument that is valid though was Lemieux terrible health to Gretzky's generally great health.
Personally, I dont want to start a fight, but in my opinion Wayne Gretzky was better, just because he didnt have back problems plaguing him. I also think Mario Lemieux would have, should have, been better, just continual injuries and back problems stopped that. They are both increadible hockey players and should give them respect for that, I'm proud to say I'm from the same amazing country they're from, Canada!
@eth1361 Dude of course Gretzky is going to say Lemieux was the best. Do you think he is going to say "Well Mario was great but I'm the best"...get with it. Gretzky is a humble man. He's not Michael Jordan (an a-hole). Of course he is going to say (insert 2nd best player ever here) is better than he is. That's just how Wayne is. I think you know that.
not bullshit, and not to mention gretzky posted alot of points in the early years wen the nhl was expanding so he had a lot of weeeeeeeek teams to to feed off of... i mean it wasnt until like 86 the league settled down, so in that time period gretzky stacked up the pts with multple 200+ seasons... lemeiux didnt play till 85 i beleive and he was rookie then n e ways.. not to mention gretzky had a supportin cast unlike no other and played on the greatest assembled team in the history of hockey..
lemieux joined in 1984 actually and you said the league "settled down" in 1986 coincidentally after waynes 4th 200 point season[the only player ever to do so even once] hate to break it to you but 99 was number 1
i was completely aware lemieux was drafted 84, and clearly lemeiux as a rookie was not goin to put up the points a 5 year veteran like gretzky was going to. my point was, from the early to mid 80's the nhl hadn't established its self, and because of this gretzky had teams to feed off of... if u look at his pts after 86, he doesnt have 200+ pt seasons, and by early 90's he struggles with 100... lemeiux to the day he retired was still posting one of the highest ppg average in the league.
WOW your an idiot he had a ppg of 1.88 to gretzky's 1.92 when he retired for real the first retirement he was very young and im blocking you cause you don't know hockey
The Oilers were 1 of those weak expansion teams, lol. Everyone talks about Gretzky's HOF cast, but Messier had 12 goals his first season. Gretzky had 51. Messier had less than 25 goals his 2nd season; Gretzky broke the all-time points and assists records that year. His 3rd season he got Kurri - who had less than 80 pts. Gretzky had 212. Coffee was 2nd on the team - with 105 pts. Less than half, and he was next closest. Gretzky destroyed all competition, his support cast was incidental.
Gretzky played hurt too. After 1991 it looked like his career may actually end because of his back. But then he came back and led the Kings to the finals in 93, and won another scoring race after that too. He also had a degenerative shoulder condition, that over time robbed his slapshot of most its power. Scoring wise, that was always his best weapon. The last 8 years of his career he was playing with these 2 injuries.
mario quit said to much clutch and grab he was a pussy graves tapped hit and his hand breaks give me a break he was a super star goon who was a pussy botto line he quit walked away like a pussy
lol, you're a complete fucking retard for saying lemieux was a pussy. everyone knows lemieux played through a LOT of pain and injuries (unlike gretzky). he also fought quite a few times (unlike gretzky).
obviously you're just a blind lemieux hater or an idiot with zero sense of objectivity (probably both). biased opinions are worthless, so dont bother making them anymore, nobody should or will give a fuck what you think.
can you complete your sentences so we can understand what the fuck you're trying to say? In the 91- 92 season, Lemieux played in just 64 games, but still won the Art Ross Trophy with 131 points. Gretzky played in 74 games with the Kings that year, finishing with 121 points. Oh, but he probably was battling a stuffy nose for a good chunk of the winter.
so have back problems so bad you cant get out of bed let alone skate around a ice rink for an hour or having cancer makes you a pussy right.....fucking retard
are you serious? i hate when people make statements and are wrong. if you dont know, ask! dont tell people they are wrong when your not sure.! life lesson for ya bud.
Mario and Wayne were an unstoppable force when it came playing together to win the Canada Cup. Being a die-hard Pittsburgh fan, you bet that I'm going to say Mario. I just think Mario was more interesting to watch. Plus he was more gifted than Gretzky. He SAVED the Pittsburgh Penguins twice. Although cancer sidelined him a lot, Mario came though. Plus as the owner, he has now won a Stanley Cup. If only Wayne was back in Edmonton (Wayne's World as I call it) I think he could help the Oilers.
they were both great players....being in Pittsburgh at that time, Mario came to a team that was NOT a winner, they had to build a team around him...and they did.
After missing half a season due to the cancer, he came back and won the scoring title ! simply awesome.
That's incorrect. Gretzky has the record for the highest PPG average for a season. You are correct that Mario would have beaten Wayne's 215 points, but that wasn't Wayne's best year. 83-84 was, when he scored 1.18 goals per game (highest in NHL history) and averaged 2.77 PPG (also highest in NHL history).
I think Mario was a more exciting player, and he is my 2nd favorite forward of all time, behind on the Great One. But Gretzky just seems to be slightly better in every offensive category.
Mario played 500 less games. If he plays another 500, his averages go down more too. Besides, Bossy had the best gpg average in history. Doesn't mean he was better than Gretzky or Lemieux. Gretzky still scored more, and achieved faster milestones (least games to 200 goals, 300, 400, 500, 600, etc). Reached 2000 points before turning 30, and no other player has even hit 2000 ever.
"Mario played 500 less games. If he plays another 500, his averages go down more too"
simplifty things to the retard level, will you?
mario sort of skipped some good years (his first retirement) to replace them with not so good years (he was 34 or 35 when he started playing again). he retired at an older age than gretzky did. in short, your argument is complete garbage.
gretzky and mario were diffrent gretzky best season (215p 52-g 163-A )(208p 73-g 135-A)( 205p 87-g 118-A)( 212 p 92-g 120-A)crazy lemiux best seasons (199p 85-g 114 -A) never broke 200point the great one 4 times best hockey player ever number 4 bobby orr look him up best ever
why do you even bother with single seasons? that kind of stat is worthless compared to a career average. martin st-louis got the most points in 03-04 and he's not even making the canadian olympic team this year...
plus, we all know the edmonton oilers team gretzky was on during those years was totally insane. lemieux never was on such a team.
come back to me when you can provide a decent argument or stat.
@joyfulvulture You don't realize that that Oilers team was so insane cuz GRETZKY MADE THE TEAM!!!!! The only player from that team who did well without Gretzky was Messier, & Coffey as well but don't forget he went on to play with Lemieux in Pit, Yzerman in Det & then another round with Gretzky in LA after he left the Oilers. Players like Jari Kurri, Glenn Anderson, Even Grant Fuhr & a handful of others would have had nowhere near the careers they had if not for playing with Gretzky.
"You don't realize that that Oilers team was so insane cuz GRETZKY MADE THE TEAM"
thats subjective retard. bottom line is that they were a much more dominant dynasty than the penguins ever had, and one player, no matter how great, cant carry a team that much by himself.
@joyfulvulture You just don't get it, that's why you called me a retard cuz ur so pissed off that I owned you here & dismissed your clainms to all who read it. You must be American!
"ur so pissed off that I owned you here & dismissed your clainms to all who read it"
with a subjective comment thats nothing more than an opinion? or a bunch of carefully selected facts/stats that dont really prove or show anything? lol... for you to say that you must have the logical and debating skills of a monkey.
keep bending reality to whatever helps self-esteem, like assuming that i'm american, which i'm not. you sound like a fucking loser.
@joyfulvulture Hell he cant!!!! He won 2 straight cups. Should have been 3. With Rob Brown and Bob Errey on his line. Some of the absolute worst hockey players ever!
@joyfulvulture Gretzky even helped Bernie Nicholls, an all-star at best, have a 70 goal, 150 point season one year (the highest total by anyone not named Gretzky, Lemieux, Yzerman, or Esposito) just by being on his line! The amount of players that Gretzky made better is endless. Plus Errey was a good player & Rob Brown had 115 pts in just 68 games one year. Lemieux did play with Coffey, Kevin Stevens, Mark Recchi, Bryan Trottier, Joe Mullen & Tom Barrasso to name a few, not bad players at all.
@JaguarLexusCentral Gretzky played with like 5 hall of famers shit head. How many did mario play with..... 0!!!!! Yeah how do you think brown got all those points. Go watch videos. From Mario
@AviatorsC21 First of all, as I said Gretzky made those hall of famers what they were. & Lemieux played with 0 hall of famers you say? Well let's see... Jaromir Jagr, Bryan Trottier, Paul Coffey, Ron Francis, Joe Mullen, Larry Murphy, Mark Recchi (not in yet but will be soon), Tom Barrasso (arguably should be in the hall), not to mention his coach Scotty Bowman, the greatest coach of all-time!!! All these guys did well without Lemieux so I wouldnt credit him for their success!!
@AviatorsC21 I've said it before & I'll say it again, I know more about hockey than anyone else on Youtube!!! I challenge anyone out there to stump me!!!!!
Gretzky had much better team to play with. Gretzky feasted on Smythe division teams (8 games each per yr) so his points records are misleading. Ever see hilites of Gretzky's goals? Today's Rec hockey goalies could stop them.
The ONLY thing Greztky had over Lemieux was he was a better leader when he was younger. Lemieux had to grow into it.
Really? Cause he had less PPG average for his career, and he didn't play a bunch when he was old like Wayne did and bring down his average. Also, Mario's best PPG seasons are less than Wayne's best PPG seasons. Wayne had more goals, assists, points, longer point streaks, etc than Mario ever did. I'm not talking career numbers even, which obviously Mario can't match, I'm talking single seasons, at their primes. Mario consistantly finishes 2nd to Wayne in EVERY SINGLE category.
Lemieux hands down. Gretzky had the better career but Lemieux was the greater player. Look at the era in which Gretzky played in. when he was getting 200pt seasons.teams wore long pants, defensemen could barely skate, goaltenders looked like Mr. Salty in net, and the butterfly style didn't even exist. It was ridiculously easy to score goals. also look at his supporting cast.The caliber of teammates around Gretzky was amazing.Lemieux had crap for the most part and still managed to win.
Gretzky started 4 years earlier. I wouldn't really call that a different era. Both were phenominal talents. I just think Gretzky was better because he actually accomplished all these records. With Lemieux its all "if only and what if". It's not his fault he got cancer or was injured, just saying that when you're talking about GOAT, longevity and health really play a large part. I can't say Mario's better just because he maybe could have done more. He didnt, Wayne did. Sadly, that's it
Gretzky had a solid five years in this era. When Lemieux came into the league the game was changing dramatically especially in defense. When the league started evolving Gretzky's numbers fell. Lemieux's didnt. And that with health problems. no health problem ever kept Lemieux from performing at his best. Lemieux also was one of the best defensive forwards in the game. Gretzky was always a defensive liability. he couldnt hit or play D. Part of being the greatest is playing on both sides of the
puck. and Gretz couldnt. He couldnt score on breakaways and he didnt have a shot either. There wasnt one thing one the ice Gretzky could do Lemieux couldnt but there was plenty Gretzky couldnt do. Lemieux also didnt have the league protecting him the way they did Gretzky. Everyone knew of that rule. it was blatant. Even his own teammates knew of it. Messier talked about it all the time.
Actually, there was plenty Wayne did that Lemieux couldn't. Namely, stay healthy. Oh, and break 200 points, break 90 goals, break 120 assists (Lemieux's best was tied with Wayne's 8th best assist total). Lemieux had 1 season over 180 points. Gretzky AVERAGED over that for his first 10 years in the NHL. Lemieux was in the league for 6 of those years, during the supposedly easy 80's, so why didn't he manage to put up better points? Besides, Wayne outscored him in every international tourney too.
kid, u wanna talk averages well lemieux averaged 2.005 pts per game in his career while grtzky only averaged 1.92... he has less over all pts then gtreatzky cuz gretzts played several hundered more games then him...
Not true - Lemieux averaged 1.88 for his career. Also, Gretzky played way more games, which brought his average down. Through 13 seasons (what Lemieux played) Gretzky was averaging above 2.20 PPG.
yea ur right, i was bitin my tongue after i said that, lol, the info i was readin was a little misleading. but i gotta say this, lemieux had, of the 10 highest averages for pts per game in a season, he had the 2 top spots, beatin gretzkys 215 pts season average, and most of the other spots. so basically wat im sayin is a healthy lemieux would hav no doubt out shined the great one...imo
mario hands down was more talented than gretz. wayne was great but mario was the most talented player ever. wayne never scored 85 goals 114 assists and 199 points with bob errey, and rob brown on his line
@falice88 your an idiot because gretzky had 92 goals and 120 assists in one season and then in another season he had 87 goals with 123 assists, wayne gretzky was head and shoulders better than lemieux. there is no doubt lemieux was a great player but gretzky was better than him.
you can go to the hockey hall of fame and get their videos of those legends of hockey things and ave them onto your computer then edit the sound and the video to show nothing but their goals.
Bobby Orr :D
Leclwrd 2 months ago
Hall of fame players,Gm's,Coaches and hockey analyst all voted Gretzky as the #1 player of ALL time.Lemeiux was ranked 4th.I would agree that Mario was arguably the most naturally talented player ever,but Gretzky was better based on his consistency and longevity.61 records,9 mvp's,10 scoring titles and 4 cups is hard to argue against.And all his Oiler teammates will tell you that it was Gretzky that made them better.Case closed.
canadeth73 3 months ago
Lemieux said gretzky's the best player of all time...and essentially he learned how to be a better player and winner from wayne in 87 canada cup
Wayne said Mario was the best player he EVER played against which they allude to as well
triplerdad 3 months ago
GRETZKY ALL THE WAY! Lemieux sucks thumbs up if you agree!
HockeyLover567 3 months ago
Mario is the better talent - dominated with a broken back, bad knees, hodgkins disease/kimotherapy - Gretzky had an enforcer his entire career, gave him more space to play (McSorley being the main one) - Mario played for ONE team, Gretzky was traded how many times? If Mario was as healthy as Gretzky was, he would have the records, not Wayne.
losthadon09 4 months ago
Not to mention Gretzky played longer but was entered into the Hall of Fame later than Mario.
losthadon09 4 months ago
lol @ ppl getting into fights.
bobby orr once said;
"Lemieux could win a scoring title with a broken stick, but Gretzky, he almost never disappoints you."
Meaning Lemieux is the most skilled of all time and Gretz was the most consistent. I'm sure Gretz was in better shape, that's a given. But who cares
geoffkilian 4 months ago
idiot!!!!
lefty42376 5 months ago
this isnt actually a video
phreddy87 6 months ago
@java6997 You do not know a thing about hockey! It is ok to argue who is better and even include the likes of Bobby Orr, Jacques Plante and others but to say that any of these isn't even close is showing the maturity of a diaper wearer. All black and white, here's my choice, everyone else is stupid. Geez! Mario was great when hurt and outstanding when playing with a bad team. Don't you even dare saying the comparison is not warranted. Of course, I take it all back if you are 4.
yfrancoeur 7 months ago
Gretzky is the great one but, they call Lemieux Super Mario
mature076 7 months ago
@mature076 Mario is actually "The Magnificent One"
SmashBrosFan19 6 months ago
you dont get the number 99 for being number 2...
Dolmaner 9 months ago
paska video opettele tekee
MrRautakorpi 1 year ago
1: Mario had lots of natural talent, but his work ethic was poor. He ate junk food and did not exercise. His injuries are, in large part, due to his own failure to keep in shape.
2: You can't say "what if". Mario COULD HAVE done this, and COULD HAVE done that...but he didn't, and Gretzky DID.
3: Part of being great is DURABILITY. 99 had it, 66 did not. And Mario fans seem to think #99 never had an injury. In 1991 his back was wrecked in the Canada Cup, he was never the same after.
#99.
LetsGoRangers1994Cup 1 year ago 2
@LetsGoRangers1994Cup And how exactly do you know that? Were you at the trainer's table or a coaching assistant? How do you score as he did (nearly 2 pts a game played, way better than Gretzky) if you have bad work ethics. People who make millions doing a sport don't take a year off with the manager's blessing if there is not a problem... People don't defer 25 to 30 million in salary if they have a bad attitude. Grow up and admire both for what they brought to the game. Bobby Orr too!
yfrancoeur 7 months ago
@LetsGoRangers1994Cup Oh so you kept tabs on Mario's eating habits did you?? You're full of shit asshole....
SmashBrosFan19 6 months ago
@LetsGoRangers1994Cup There is a big difference in getting injured when you are 30 and past your prime and still playing 78 games that season (Wayne) and being injured at 25 (Mario) before your prime and only playing 26 games that season. Back surgeries and cancer at 28 during the midst of his prime allowed him to play 22 games that season, and at 29 he had to sit out the entire season. At 31 yrs old he retired for 3 and a half seasons.
js23232323 3 days ago
@LetsGoRangers1994Cup Do not compare Wayne's injury at 30 to Mario being forced to retire at 31 because of Cancer and back surgeries. From age 24 to age 35 (12 seasons) he only played in 420 games, participating in 8 of the 12 seasons. From age 24 to 35 (12 seasons) Wayne played 842 games and the least amount of games he was limited to in a season was 45. Do not compare Wayne's injury at 30 to Mario being forced to retire at 31 because of Cancer and back surgeries.
js23232323 3 days ago
@LetsGoRangers1994Cup Wayne was blessed with the greatest career ever and Lemieux was blessed with the most talent and skill, there is no doubt about that. Lemieux took over the scoring title in the 1987-1988 season when he was a kid at 22 with very little talent on his team to work with while Gretzky was 26 and still playing with the talented players from the Oilers that he came into the league with. Skewed statistics mean nothing, facts are facts.
js23232323 3 days ago
@LetsGoRangers1994Cup Forgot to mention that when Mario came back after retiring for 3.5 seasons at age 35, he was still considered the best player in the league, a title Gretzky lost to Lemieux when Mario was 22-23 years old and Wayne was in his prime at 26-27 years old.
js23232323 3 days ago
Mario scored 160 while going thru chemo...His tear on that year would have shattered everything...But he had Rob Brown
Tod661 1 year ago
and by the way..there is no argument..never should be...What did Gretz say on his retirement?....he was fortunate to be on the ice with the greatest hockey player ever....ever..There is no argument..Most gifted hockey player #66..I will die before we see another 50 in 50 goal scorer..think about it sometime
Tod661 1 year ago
Let's see who the great one had playing beside him in his big point years..Yurri Curry,Messier,Linseman,Essa...the list goes on and on for Edmonton..Mario Lemiuex had a call up named Rob Brown..Please..Lets quote a King's player...A fire hydrant could score 50 goals with Lemieux..Don't even compare...Pure talent
Tod661 1 year ago
Mario is no doubt nr 1 i agree with all of you
Andy8012 1 year ago
Mario Lemieux is my all time favorite player ever. He would of had more points than Gretzky but look at how much more games Gretzky played than Lemieux....
EANHLSPORTSTRON96 1 year ago
@EANHLSPORTSTRON96 why??? fastest to 1000 points -gretzky...fastest to 2nd thousand points -gretzky he got his 2nd thousand faster than mario got his first thousand, gretzky was also faster to 100, 200, 300, 400, 500 600 and 700 goals...the more games you play the lower the point total gets thats just facts...let me know ehn someone else is the leading scorer in the nhl in 2 consecutive decades...lemieux spent a shortened career playing catchup gretzky had no one left to chase...
triplerdad 3 months ago
If you account for all the games Lemiuex missed, and look at the points he could have had, his numbers are very close to Gretzky's. And the scary thing is, he was never really 100% when he did play. It may be impossible to tell who was better but one things for certain, they were the two greatest players in hockey history, hands down.
SuperTugz 1 year ago
The main argument for those who think Lemieux was the better player is that Lemieux never had a great name, while Wayne did. Lemieux only had a bad team in his first few seasons, by the late 80s, he started playing with guys like Coffey, Jagr, Francis, Tocchet, Recchi and Trottier. Those guys are darned close to being as good as Gretzky's teamates. The one argument that is valid though was Lemieux terrible health to Gretzky's generally great health.
gymguy25 1 year ago
Personally, I dont want to start a fight, but in my opinion Wayne Gretzky was better, just because he didnt have back problems plaguing him. I also think Mario Lemieux would have, should have, been better, just continual injuries and back problems stopped that. They are both increadible hockey players and should give them respect for that, I'm proud to say I'm from the same amazing country they're from, Canada!
MrZechlin 2 years ago
Gretzky said himself that Lemieux was the most talented player he had ever seen
eth1361 2 years ago
@eth1361 Dude of course Gretzky is going to say Lemieux was the best. Do you think he is going to say "Well Mario was great but I'm the best"...get with it. Gretzky is a humble man. He's not Michael Jordan (an a-hole). Of course he is going to say (insert 2nd best player ever here) is better than he is. That's just how Wayne is. I think you know that.
LetsGoRangers1994Cup 1 year ago 3
mario played less games and played hurt alot if these factors are brought to gretzky mario would have dominated
ledzepcamaro 2 years ago
bullshit
MrBarelylethal 2 years ago
not bullshit, and not to mention gretzky posted alot of points in the early years wen the nhl was expanding so he had a lot of weeeeeeeek teams to to feed off of... i mean it wasnt until like 86 the league settled down, so in that time period gretzky stacked up the pts with multple 200+ seasons... lemeiux didnt play till 85 i beleive and he was rookie then n e ways.. not to mention gretzky had a supportin cast unlike no other and played on the greatest assembled team in the history of hockey..
cmacpella 2 years ago
lemieux joined in 1984 actually and you said the league "settled down" in 1986 coincidentally after waynes 4th 200 point season[the only player ever to do so even once] hate to break it to you but 99 was number 1
MrBarelylethal 2 years ago
i was completely aware lemieux was drafted 84, and clearly lemeiux as a rookie was not goin to put up the points a 5 year veteran like gretzky was going to. my point was, from the early to mid 80's the nhl hadn't established its self, and because of this gretzky had teams to feed off of... if u look at his pts after 86, he doesnt have 200+ pt seasons, and by early 90's he struggles with 100... lemeiux to the day he retired was still posting one of the highest ppg average in the league.
cmacpella 2 years ago
WOW your an idiot he had a ppg of 1.88 to gretzky's 1.92 when he retired for real the first retirement he was very young and im blocking you cause you don't know hockey
MrBarelylethal 2 years ago
im talkin season ppg average, not career... jeesus... ur lost in the semantics...
cmacpella 2 years ago
wow i said look at gretzky's in 1983-1984 its higher
MrBarelylethal 2 years ago
The Oilers were 1 of those weak expansion teams, lol. Everyone talks about Gretzky's HOF cast, but Messier had 12 goals his first season. Gretzky had 51. Messier had less than 25 goals his 2nd season; Gretzky broke the all-time points and assists records that year. His 3rd season he got Kurri - who had less than 80 pts. Gretzky had 212. Coffee was 2nd on the team - with 105 pts. Less than half, and he was next closest. Gretzky destroyed all competition, his support cast was incidental.
shazariahl 2 years ago
agreed
MrBarelylethal 2 years ago
Gretzky played hurt too. After 1991 it looked like his career may actually end because of his back. But then he came back and led the Kings to the finals in 93, and won another scoring race after that too. He also had a degenerative shoulder condition, that over time robbed his slapshot of most its power. Scoring wise, that was always his best weapon. The last 8 years of his career he was playing with these 2 injuries.
shazariahl 2 years ago
agreed
MrBarelylethal 2 years ago
mario quit said to much clutch and grab he was a pussy graves tapped hit and his hand breaks give me a break he was a super star goon who was a pussy botto line he quit walked away like a pussy
MegaMma4life 2 years ago
@MegaMma4life
lol, you're a complete fucking retard for saying lemieux was a pussy. everyone knows lemieux played through a LOT of pain and injuries (unlike gretzky). he also fought quite a few times (unlike gretzky).
obviously you're just a blind lemieux hater or an idiot with zero sense of objectivity (probably both). biased opinions are worthless, so dont bother making them anymore, nobody should or will give a fuck what you think.
joyfulvulture 2 years ago
can you complete your sentences so we can understand what the fuck you're trying to say? In the 91- 92 season, Lemieux played in just 64 games, but still won the Art Ross Trophy with 131 points. Gretzky played in 74 games with the Kings that year, finishing with 121 points. Oh, but he probably was battling a stuffy nose for a good chunk of the winter.
supasdf 2 years ago
@MegaMma4life
so have back problems so bad you cant get out of bed let alone skate around a ice rink for an hour or having cancer makes you a pussy right.....fucking retard
2WIREG 2 years ago
mario had back problems not cancer
ledzepcamaro 2 years ago
are you serious? i hate when people make statements and are wrong. if you dont know, ask! dont tell people they are wrong when your not sure.! life lesson for ya bud.
mario did have a form of cancer
lfoldi 2 years ago
mario had Hodgkins disease, a form of cancer... idiot
cmacpella 2 years ago
Mario and Wayne were an unstoppable force when it came playing together to win the Canada Cup. Being a die-hard Pittsburgh fan, you bet that I'm going to say Mario. I just think Mario was more interesting to watch. Plus he was more gifted than Gretzky. He SAVED the Pittsburgh Penguins twice. Although cancer sidelined him a lot, Mario came though. Plus as the owner, he has now won a Stanley Cup. If only Wayne was back in Edmonton (Wayne's World as I call it) I think he could help the Oilers.
BuzzsawtheHedgehog 2 years ago
that wasnt marios first cup, he won back to back in 91 and 92...
cmacpella 2 years ago
they were both great players....being in Pittsburgh at that time, Mario came to a team that was NOT a winner, they had to build a team around him...and they did.
After missing half a season due to the cancer, he came back and won the scoring title ! simply awesome.
PA2FL 2 years ago
That's incorrect. Gretzky has the record for the highest PPG average for a season. You are correct that Mario would have beaten Wayne's 215 points, but that wasn't Wayne's best year. 83-84 was, when he scored 1.18 goals per game (highest in NHL history) and averaged 2.77 PPG (also highest in NHL history).
I think Mario was a more exciting player, and he is my 2nd favorite forward of all time, behind on the Great One. But Gretzky just seems to be slightly better in every offensive category.
shazariahl 2 years ago
na man ur worng, look it up i just did.. mario hold the 2 highest ppg averages in a season with 2.87...
cmacpella 2 years ago
no man YOUR wrong look it up he doesn`t look at grektky`s in 1983-1984
MrBarelylethal 2 years ago
"But Gretzky just seems to be slightly better in every offensive category"
all time goal per game average:
mario 0.75
wayne 0.6
guess not.
joyfulvulture 2 years ago
Mario played 500 less games. If he plays another 500, his averages go down more too. Besides, Bossy had the best gpg average in history. Doesn't mean he was better than Gretzky or Lemieux. Gretzky still scored more, and achieved faster milestones (least games to 200 goals, 300, 400, 500, 600, etc). Reached 2000 points before turning 30, and no other player has even hit 2000 ever.
shazariahl 2 years ago
"Mario played 500 less games. If he plays another 500, his averages go down more too"
simplifty things to the retard level, will you?
mario sort of skipped some good years (his first retirement) to replace them with not so good years (he was 34 or 35 when he started playing again). he retired at an older age than gretzky did. in short, your argument is complete garbage.
joyfulvulture 2 years ago
bobby orr best ever period gretzky better the mario great one had 4 200 point seasons mario had one 199 point season
MegaMma4life 2 years ago
gretzky and mario were diffrent gretzky best season (215p 52-g 163-A )(208p 73-g 135-A)( 205p 87-g 118-A)( 212 p 92-g 120-A)crazy lemiux best seasons (199p 85-g 114 -A) never broke 200point the great one 4 times best hockey player ever number 4 bobby orr look him up best ever
MegaMma4life 2 years ago
@MegaMma4life
why do you even bother with single seasons? that kind of stat is worthless compared to a career average. martin st-louis got the most points in 03-04 and he's not even making the canadian olympic team this year...
plus, we all know the edmonton oilers team gretzky was on during those years was totally insane. lemieux never was on such a team.
come back to me when you can provide a decent argument or stat.
joyfulvulture 2 years ago
@joyfulvulture You don't realize that that Oilers team was so insane cuz GRETZKY MADE THE TEAM!!!!! The only player from that team who did well without Gretzky was Messier, & Coffey as well but don't forget he went on to play with Lemieux in Pit, Yzerman in Det & then another round with Gretzky in LA after he left the Oilers. Players like Jari Kurri, Glenn Anderson, Even Grant Fuhr & a handful of others would have had nowhere near the careers they had if not for playing with Gretzky.
JaguarLexusCentral 1 year ago
@JaguarLexusCentral
"You don't realize that that Oilers team was so insane cuz GRETZKY MADE THE TEAM"
thats subjective retard. bottom line is that they were a much more dominant dynasty than the penguins ever had, and one player, no matter how great, cant carry a team that much by himself.
joyfulvulture 1 year ago
@joyfulvulture You just don't get it, that's why you called me a retard cuz ur so pissed off that I owned you here & dismissed your clainms to all who read it. You must be American!
JaguarLexusCentral 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@JaguarLexusCentral
"ur so pissed off that I owned you here & dismissed your clainms to all who read it"
with a subjective comment thats nothing more than an opinion? or a bunch of carefully selected facts/stats that dont really prove or show anything? lol... for you to say that you must have the logical and debating skills of a monkey.
keep bending reality to whatever helps self-esteem, like assuming that i'm american, which i'm not. you sound like a fucking loser.
joyfulvulture 1 year ago
@joyfulvulture Hell he cant!!!! He won 2 straight cups. Should have been 3. With Rob Brown and Bob Errey on his line. Some of the absolute worst hockey players ever!
AviatorsC21 1 year ago
@joyfulvulture Gretzky even helped Bernie Nicholls, an all-star at best, have a 70 goal, 150 point season one year (the highest total by anyone not named Gretzky, Lemieux, Yzerman, or Esposito) just by being on his line! The amount of players that Gretzky made better is endless. Plus Errey was a good player & Rob Brown had 115 pts in just 68 games one year. Lemieux did play with Coffey, Kevin Stevens, Mark Recchi, Bryan Trottier, Joe Mullen & Tom Barrasso to name a few, not bad players at all.
JaguarLexusCentral 1 year ago
@JaguarLexusCentral Gretzky played with like 5 hall of famers shit head. How many did mario play with..... 0!!!!! Yeah how do you think brown got all those points. Go watch videos. From Mario
AviatorsC21 1 year ago
@AviatorsC21 First of all, as I said Gretzky made those hall of famers what they were. & Lemieux played with 0 hall of famers you say? Well let's see... Jaromir Jagr, Bryan Trottier, Paul Coffey, Ron Francis, Joe Mullen, Larry Murphy, Mark Recchi (not in yet but will be soon), Tom Barrasso (arguably should be in the hall), not to mention his coach Scotty Bowman, the greatest coach of all-time!!! All these guys did well without Lemieux so I wouldnt credit him for their success!!
JaguarLexusCentral 1 year ago
@AviatorsC21 I've said it before & I'll say it again, I know more about hockey than anyone else on Youtube!!! I challenge anyone out there to stump me!!!!!
JaguarLexusCentral 1 year ago
Comment removed
cmacpella 3 years ago
hands down Lemieux was better.
Gretzky had much better team to play with. Gretzky feasted on Smythe division teams (8 games each per yr) so his points records are misleading. Ever see hilites of Gretzky's goals? Today's Rec hockey goalies could stop them.
The ONLY thing Greztky had over Lemieux was he was a better leader when he was younger. Lemieux had to grow into it.
hebber1961 2 years ago
glad to hear that bro, i honestly believ had lemieux not bin playin injured half the time he would've bin much more dominant then he alrdy was....
cmacpella 2 years ago
Lemieux- greatest habds ever. Bure- most underrated player ever
90da 3 years ago
Lemieux was way better....If Lemieux wouldnt of been out all of those years he would of shattered Gretzky's record
Gobleck2 3 years ago
Really? Cause he had less PPG average for his career, and he didn't play a bunch when he was old like Wayne did and bring down his average. Also, Mario's best PPG seasons are less than Wayne's best PPG seasons. Wayne had more goals, assists, points, longer point streaks, etc than Mario ever did. I'm not talking career numbers even, which obviously Mario can't match, I'm talking single seasons, at their primes. Mario consistantly finishes 2nd to Wayne in EVERY SINGLE category.
shazariahl 3 years ago
Lemieux hands down. Gretzky had the better career but Lemieux was the greater player. Look at the era in which Gretzky played in. when he was getting 200pt seasons.teams wore long pants, defensemen could barely skate, goaltenders looked like Mr. Salty in net, and the butterfly style didn't even exist. It was ridiculously easy to score goals. also look at his supporting cast.The caliber of teammates around Gretzky was amazing.Lemieux had crap for the most part and still managed to win.
botch061502 3 years ago
Gretzky started 4 years earlier. I wouldn't really call that a different era. Both were phenominal talents. I just think Gretzky was better because he actually accomplished all these records. With Lemieux its all "if only and what if". It's not his fault he got cancer or was injured, just saying that when you're talking about GOAT, longevity and health really play a large part. I can't say Mario's better just because he maybe could have done more. He didnt, Wayne did. Sadly, that's it
shazariahl 3 years ago
Gretzky had a solid five years in this era. When Lemieux came into the league the game was changing dramatically especially in defense. When the league started evolving Gretzky's numbers fell. Lemieux's didnt. And that with health problems. no health problem ever kept Lemieux from performing at his best. Lemieux also was one of the best defensive forwards in the game. Gretzky was always a defensive liability. he couldnt hit or play D. Part of being the greatest is playing on both sides of the
face525252 3 years ago
puck. and Gretz couldnt. He couldnt score on breakaways and he didnt have a shot either. There wasnt one thing one the ice Gretzky could do Lemieux couldnt but there was plenty Gretzky couldnt do. Lemieux also didnt have the league protecting him the way they did Gretzky. Everyone knew of that rule. it was blatant. Even his own teammates knew of it. Messier talked about it all the time.
face525252 3 years ago
Actually, there was plenty Wayne did that Lemieux couldn't. Namely, stay healthy. Oh, and break 200 points, break 90 goals, break 120 assists (Lemieux's best was tied with Wayne's 8th best assist total). Lemieux had 1 season over 180 points. Gretzky AVERAGED over that for his first 10 years in the NHL. Lemieux was in the league for 6 of those years, during the supposedly easy 80's, so why didn't he manage to put up better points? Besides, Wayne outscored him in every international tourney too.
shazariahl 3 years ago
kid, u wanna talk averages well lemieux averaged 2.005 pts per game in his career while grtzky only averaged 1.92... he has less over all pts then gtreatzky cuz gretzts played several hundered more games then him...
cmacpella 2 years ago
Not true - Lemieux averaged 1.88 for his career. Also, Gretzky played way more games, which brought his average down. Through 13 seasons (what Lemieux played) Gretzky was averaging above 2.20 PPG.
P.S. I'm not a kid - I'll turn 40 in October.
shazariahl 2 years ago
yea ur right, i was bitin my tongue after i said that, lol, the info i was readin was a little misleading. but i gotta say this, lemieux had, of the 10 highest averages for pts per game in a season, he had the 2 top spots, beatin gretzkys 215 pts season average, and most of the other spots. so basically wat im sayin is a healthy lemieux would hav no doubt out shined the great one...imo
no h8
cmacpella 2 years ago
mario hands down was more talented than gretz. wayne was great but mario was the most talented player ever. wayne never scored 85 goals 114 assists and 199 points with bob errey, and rob brown on his line
falice88 3 years ago 2
@falice88 your an idiot because gretzky had 92 goals and 120 assists in one season and then in another season he had 87 goals with 123 assists, wayne gretzky was head and shoulders better than lemieux. there is no doubt lemieux was a great player but gretzky was better than him.
cavallo32094 1 year ago
I think Mario Lemieux was better but he had the cancer and he miss more than 500 regular games. That's why Gretzky had a best career.
jtmchristo 3 years ago
you can go to the hockey hall of fame and get their videos of those legends of hockey things and ave them onto your computer then edit the sound and the video to show nothing but their goals.
NHLTrav 3 years ago
Lemieux!!
ludod87 3 years ago
very very bad
ludod87 3 years ago
look whos talkin you watch your own vid lately it's the worst vid on youtube!
bluesrule14 3 years ago
very bad video
ludod87 3 years ago
this was my second vid idiot!
bluesrule14 3 years ago
gretzey
22blues22 3 years ago
lemieux
bluesrule14 3 years ago
Whos better Gretzky pr super mario please leave comments!
bluesrule14 3 years ago