Stanislav Grof - Addiction - The Transpersonal View

[KimmySue108]

suddenlyitsobvious, you are saying, for example, that John Lennon was a government pawn?

[5147848amp]

Wow - some embarassingly angry people on here, there are. We need some psychotherapy..

[suddenlyitsobvious]

@SUGAKANE707

Two posts & 2 times you said NOTHING. Who's ignorant? Don't talk to me if you got NOTHING to say and only idiotic points to make like:

-you haven't read enough

-you are ignorant (2x)

Do you think I don't see what I'm dealing with here? Don't play the intellectual with me when you can hardly spell pal. You won't be able to post me again, or at least I won't receive it in my mailbox because you're blocked now,

Who's the waste of time?

What is even your angle?

Pffft & bye.

[suddenlyitsobvious]

@SUGAKANE707

How do you know what I've read?

Why don't you make some substantive comment instead of blathering drivvle on what you read?

The antagonism between LSD reality and psychiatric unreality might be a good point to start? Any thoughts? Hmm? You won't find THAT in GROF'S books of course...You'd have to read some OTHER materials as well & considering you're not 2 much of a speller, and your comment is substandard, I'll be waiting to hear from you on this in a few months?

OK? Ciao.

[suddenlyitsobvious]

Since Grof doesn't seem to get it, what created the wave of eastern mysticism in Europe and the US was an effort of social engineering designed by elites, starting perhaps with the theosophists and culminating in the absurd Baghwan Shree Rajneesh.

The climate of the 60s was also engineered.

Grof participated in CIA funded LSD experiments, and apparently hasn't even got a clue about the importance of setting, intention. Of course: a psychiatrist...

Psychiatry and LSD make a very toxic combo.

[chromaticsynergy]

@suddenlyitsobvious

To what point do you think an organisation of people, like the CIA, can really "engineer" such reflexions in a humain brain? Have you ever taken LSD? Do you really know what "true psychiatry" is? If you can answer these questions, please do, I am curious of knowing the truth about the human psyche.

[chromaticsynergy]

@suddenlyitsobvious

To what point do you think an organisation of people, like the CIA, can really "engineer" such reflexions in a humain brain? Have you ever taken LSD? Do you really know what "true psychiatry" is? If you can answer these questions, please do, I am curious of knowing the truth about the human psyche.

P.S. Perhaps you consider the bio-psycho-social approach to be closer to the truth. Yes, it's a lot less "engineered", especially not by the pharmaceutical companies.

[TheOnlyInsaneacyde]

@suddenlyitsobvious

any tool that once used, suddenly makes a man accountable for himself, his reality, and causes him to question the role manipulating forces have on him is not an effort of social engineering designed by elites. you dont even need to smoke THC to be paranoid

[suddenlyitsobvious]

@TheOnlyInsaneacyde

Hi. Your post is ill-phrased and consequently somewhat incomprehensible I find.

You say:

"and causes him to question the role manipulating forces have on him is not an effort of social engineering designed by elites"

I take it you are trying to say that when we start to question the world, and RESEARCH aspects of it, such as the counter-culture, the introduction of drugs into the mainstream, the origins of LSD, ...

[TheOnlyInsaneacyde]

@suddenlyitsobvious

what you imply is that if your enemy uses a shotgun, you cannot use it and it will not benefit you in anyway, i provided an argument to that. perhaps we dont understand each other, and i apologise for the snide remark about paranoia. i just cant fathom why you would insist that lsd is the sole property of the CIA and its use automatically puts you right where they want you to be. perhaps i dont understand you at all!

[suddenlyitsobvious]

@TheOnlyInsaneacyde

Of course my point was NOT that if you take LSD you automatically fall under some governmental agency's control through perhaps some satellite-based spatial detection of alteration of brainwave-patterns or something of that order. THAT indeed would be paranoid, although it is undeniable that the system is very interested in such options and has consistently done research on our brain chemistry and ways to influence it.

[suddenlyitsobvious]

@TheOnlyInsaneacyde

(2)

...or ANYTHING ELSE for that matter, our conclusions are all taking place merely in our own heads, fully subjective and relative, figments of our own imagination, never reflecting actuality, unless these conclusions are cloned from "official" reality. In your view there certainly isn't such a thing as "control" of social movements, or a pronounced effort of social engineering going on. Thinking that equates to being "paranoid" in your opinion.

[suddenlyitsobvious]

@TheOnlyInsaneacyde

(3)

Let me ask you: do you use the internet AT ALL to inform yourself?

Using the term "paranoid" or "conspiracy-theorist" is of course very convenient for those who haven't done ANY homework whatsoever, who cannot be bothered to investigate things for themselves and rather follow the consensual narratives they are being fed by the mainstream media and education curricula.

[TheOnlyInsaneacyde]

@suddenlyitsobvious

you mean searching for the needle in the haystack of misinformation? yes on occasion.

you assume i said that because you stated lsd is controlled by the CIA completely and anyone taking it is a CIA puppet - or did you mean that they use it as a tool like many others who have NO allegiance to the secret societies? you are not coming through as such

[suddenlyitsobvious]

@TheOnlyInsaneacyde

(2)

In fact, this is PRECISELY what the pseudo-science of psychiatry is about.

Note that Grof is a trained psychiatrist, and what I was trying to say is that THE WAY SOCIETY PERCEIVES LSD, psychedelics, "transcendental movements" etc is CONTROLLED and engineered by agencies. In fact, the entire "counter-culture" was engineered and NOT a natural movement that developed "organically", from "grassroots". All the figureheads were government pawns.

[suddenlyitsobvious]

@TheOnlyInsaneacyde

(3) Governmental agencies such as the CIA have been very involved in creating and engineering the SOCIAL NARRATIVES and MOVEMENTS surrounding these phenomena, and have contextualized it in a certain way.

Grof, Leary, Ram Dass and such guys are pretty much the guru's of psychedelics and have approached the matter in a corrupt or counterproductive way.

Just check Grof's account of his own LSD experiences: PATHETIC experiences ...

[suddenlyitsobvious]

(4)

under the full control of psychiatric investigation. What he says of his "trips" is just sad. In other words: he's just about the worst person to talk about these things and hasn't been in a position to explore LSD's potential. He is a controlled front.

What this is all about is social CONSCIOUSNESS, cultural narratives. THAT's where the control resides. Of course, LSD in ITSELF is a substance that in ITSELF doesn't expose the taker to government manipulation and control.

[YanusDV]

@suddenlyitsobvious

Have you tried LSD? 

[YanusDV]

@suddenlyitsobvious

What´s your point in one sentence? How exactly psychiatry is a pseudo-science? I dont´know anything about you but the mere amount of posts you wrote to others indicate to me that you are in some way arrogant, because you are insanely interested on imposing your point of view on others, not in dialogue. Again, can you summarize your point in one sentence?

[suddenlyitsobvious]

@YanusDV

Why would I summarize my views to you if you have decided on the basis of VOLUME of posts that I'm 'arrogant'?

Why do you want a definition or a quick phrase when I've taken the trouble to get into it and develop a case you don't appreciate nor understand?

I'm sorry but I don't see why I should cater to such a lazy request.

The prerequisite for fruitful dialogue is openness to what the other has to say. You obviously don't fulfill this basic, simple condition.

[suddenlyitsobvious]

@YanusDV

What's my point in one sentence... People thinking the transmission of complex issues such as the nature of psychedelic experience and psychiatry's approach to the mind is best accomplished through slogans and catchy one-liners are psychotic. Face it: your request is insane.

[YanusDV]

@suddenlyitsobvious

Ok, that´s two more questions to go...

[suddenlyitsobvious]

@YanusDV

What's in it for me, answering your questions? What would be the benefit for me telling you I did or did not take LSD? Obviously none...

[suddenlyitsobvious]

@TheOnlyInsaneacyde

(4)

The link CIA-LSD has been well-documented and investigated, fi through the Rockefeller Commission, and any fairly informed individual is aware of the role played by think tanks and government agencies in shaping social reality. Calling those who point this perfectly evident fact out "paranoid" is simply being in denial.

To say that "any tool that once used, suddenly makes a man accountable for himself, his reality" is another problematic statement,...

[suddenlyitsobvious]

@TheOnlyInsaneacyde

(5)

... that doesn't mean much.

Bottom line of your post appears to be that YOU get paranoid when you smoke a joint. Well, I don't.

People who get "paranoid" are precisely those who DO NOT understand the nature of a reality they haven't investigated, do not understand, and that consequently completely overflows them as soon as they take some psychedelic substance that weakens their ego control and REVEALS their subconscious, ...

[suddenlyitsobvious]

(6)

...unprocessed, uninvestigated psychic & social, actual reality.

As I said, I don't have that problem. We live in a society that is being engineered on all levels& I have unlike you no problem looking that reality in the face, level-headedly.

This is not merely my "subjective, relative reality", something I "think", but verifiable fact for all.

You see, some "subjective" opinions can equally be "objectively" true.

Amazingly, many people haven't figured this out...

[alkn32]

Who is statue behind the Stanislav grof .Help please

[djtanner66]

@alkn32 buddha

[SETSETCIRCLE]

this man is great , thank god for him

[apomaatoia]

thank you!!!

[rachkaification]

Peace and Love Stan!!!You are a God's friend!

[MrMarco77]

Beautiful. Thank you. Now I'll have to watch all your videos.

[Earthseed57]

thank you

[DOWN49]

Living legend!