Luther Lassiter v. Willie Mosconi 7-ball (part 1 of 4)

[TrickShot1100]

At their age neither guy is wearing glasses.........Damn !! LOL

Two of Greats !!!

[masanf]

ESPN's pool coverage always sucked.  One minute the score would be 1-0 and they would take a commercial break and when they came back it would be 4-6 or something like that.

[S0ryiu]

I would have loved to watch these two play in their prime.

[dv713]

Yes the old tournaments were invitationals and you had to win something to be invited. Just as Odhinn222 mentioned. There is no doubt Reyes would have played well in those tournaments but to say the older players would stand no chance when they were at their peak is nuts. Thorsten Holman is probably the best current Straight pool player out there. I don't know of any straight pool tournaments Reyes has won but I know he played in some. It is not his best game.

[mastercueartist]

@dv713 reyes HAS won straight pool tournaments and idk if you heard or not mika immonen ran 150 straight on mike siegel this past year...but as far as straight pool i agree there probably is nobody out there right now that runs with these guys straight pool....thats all they ever played back then or one pocket...lol if you went in and tried to play them some 9 ball they probably would have laughed you out of the pool hall

[8down10]

@mastercueartist just like if they went into a snooker hall and asked o'sullivan, higgins or white to play straight pool they'd laugh willie and lassiter out of the snooker hall

[mastercueartist]

@8down10 actually i have heard most of the good snooker players ARE good straight pool players.

[80gamer]

old gas bags

[azoldtime09]

I like the 9-Ball, and the 10-Ball variations better.

[Odhinn222]

Hi again dv713. The15 titles were invitationals, put on by the BAA, meaning Brunswick Billiards. Mosconi, like Greanleaf prior, was their salaried rep. These invitationals were small, just a few players Brunswick invited in. They never picked Ed Taylor, for instance. Albeit,  Mosconi was one of the best. He got a straight salary--only play in the country- to play pool. He could dedicate all his time strictly improving technique, no gambling pressure, and still feed a family--still HAVE a family.

[dv713]

@Odhinn222 Yes they were invitationals and you had to win some tournaments to be invited. In other words you have to prove yourself to get in. The current US Open 9 ball tournament allows anybody with an entry fee to get in and some of the players are pretty weak. Some of the players Mosconi went against were great players such as Irving Crane who was a top ranked player for over 4 decades. Ed Taylor was known for his banks, what straight pool tournament did he win?

[Odhinn222]

dv713, hi: the 15 titles were invitationals, put on by the BAA, really just Brunswick Billiards. Mosconi, like Grenleaf prior, was their rep. These invitationals were small, just a few players Brunswick invited in. They never picked Ed Taylor, for instance. Albeit, Mosconi was one of the best. Still, he got a straight salary--the only player to - to play pool he was the only one who could spend all his time strictly improving technique and still feed a family--still HAVE a family.

[Odhinn222]

dv7 13: these 15 titles were invitationals, put on by the BAA, which was really just Brunswick Billiards. Mosconi was their man, like Greenleaf before. When Mosconi was in, the invitationals were small, just a few players that Brunswick invited to play him. They never picked Ed Taylor. Still, Mosconi was one of the best; he got a straight salary to play pool. He could practice and perfect and dedicate his entire time to it with no pressure of his family going hungry.

[dv713]

Mosconi in his day was the best straight pool player there was. 15 world titles should tell you something.

Lassiter did go on to win 4 world titles of his own in straight pool.

Mosconi played Greenleaf in exhibition play and at the end of their tour he was winning more than he was losing and that was before he peaked.

Today straight pool competition has dropped off but there is no doubt Willie would still be the one to beat if you could go back in time and bring Willie into the future.

[notbestfriends]

Reyes couldn't carry Mosconi's jock! 526 run plus all his world titles are testament to that.

[joeygonzo]

@notbestfriends

Did he win World One Pocket and World 9 ?

[MrKinghuman]

efren my ass. these old men arent even trying and they are old, their sight and stamina aint what it used to be, these two in their prime would have embaressed both past and present champions. did you see the carom in the opening rack, sick, and hes in his sixties

[GBeret83]

Make no mistake about it. There's been a lot of really good pool players come and go through the year's, right on up to present day. But when Willie Mosconi really wanted to seriously play pool, 8 ball, 9 ball, 7 ball, no matter what the game, there was never a better player that graced a pool table than Willie, IMO.

[robertstkpns]

Many years ago I was fortunate to see Willie inan exhibition match in Tampa, Fla. After running apprx 75 balls ( in what seemed like 5 min) he turned to the audience and with extreme confidence (some might call it arrogance) said "would you like to see me run a few more RACKS or would you like to see some trick shots?

[dv713]

@robertstkpns I would have liked to have seen that.

This must have been many years ago as I live near Tampa for the past 33 years and would not have missed that. I do know someone who once played Mosconi an exhibition straight pool match. He got the chance to play him because he had won a state championship. He is to this day a very good player but he had no chance against Mosconi.

[S0ryiu]

@dv713 Mosconi used to play local pool halls in an area where he was doing a tournament. My grandfather met him once in Atlanta, never got to play him unfortunately. He did play Fats once in Vegas at a pub though, never got to finish the game though (or atleast that's the tale he and my grandmother always told me.)

[cyruseven]

additionally these guys were doin' it on tough equipment and on 5x10 tables back in the day.

Luther was a better 9ball player, from what i hear luther's road buddy, don willis, was even better and an unknown.

the history of this game is rich...too bad halls today are turning into dance clubs and young folk don't know the game.

i fell in love w/ the game in my twenties and learned, read, played all i could. Robert Byrne, Robbins- one pocket...it's all in books all kids need is the table time.

[blindahl78]

I love watching these old players in action and especially the vintage videos. Man it's a fast table they are playing on.

[MrMudneck]

ahem. wonder what mosconis game was like when they were younger.

[MrBeachyspuds]

wow,what a shot at 2:50.wimpys the man.

[jrlassiter]

Wimpy is my grandfather's brother. crazy to see how much he looks like my dad.

wow.

[kidd2947]

Wow, don't know how old you are, but did you ever get to spend time with him? Do you play pool?

[jrlassiter]

I met him once when i was like 10 years old. that was 27 years ago. i can hack around a pool table but sadly i am not doing much for the lassiter name in the table at all.

but to see him there is a real thrill for me as you might imagine.

JAY

[jmjbb5]

I met Wimpy when I was a little boy, about 7 or 8 (30 years ago). My dad owned a bar in a small town in IL and somehow got him to come to the bar and play pool. I have a couple pictures of me playing pool against him. I'll never forget it.

[joeygonzo]

@jrlassiter

Considered by many as the greatest 9-ball player ever/

[michael70h7]

@jrlassiter no offense but that wimpy dude is ugly as fuck haha!

[jrlassiter]

@michael70h7 your comment adds nothing whatsoever to this discussing except to make you look kinda ignorant and mean-spirited.

[michael70h7]

@jrlassiter na it was a humurous comment, yet you took it to the butthole. might wanna carry some lubricant for incidents like those. or consult a physician if attitude persists. maybe he'll prescribe you a medical marijuana card for your sufferings lol! have a good day sir! btw willie mosconi is my hero! a str8 g on the table!

[DatBoyShane]

@jrlassiter Really? He's kin to me as well. My grandpas 2nd cousin as a matter of fact

[jrlassiter]

@DatBoyShane so i guess that makes us distant cousins:)

[lemonite1]

I'm sorry,and I know I'm gunna hear it. But I think Mosconi would get trounced playin 9 Ball against today's players.

[bloodgutsnglory]

@lemonite1 lol. That's funny. Willie in his prime was the best pool player ever. Truth is in his prime Willie didn't play much 9 ball because it's too simple a game and wasn't considered the championship game of his day. If he practiced more at 9 ball he would have been just as dominant as he was in straight pool. Straight pool is a much more difficult game that 9 bal.. He once beat the world snooker champion in a match after only 2 weeks of snooker practice. do the math.

[lemonite1]

Yes and no. In straight the shots are easy but you have to manage more balls in a smaller area. In 9 Ball the shots and position plays tend to be longer but there's more luck involved. There's also tends to be more safety play in 9 ball and I don't know how Mosconi woulda' done against a Reyes in a kicking battle. We also don't know how well he woulda done in breaking cuz the equipment was different. The stroke in 9 Ball is much different than in straight pool.

[bloodgutsnglory]

You're wrong about more safety play in 9 ball. There's a ton of defensive shots in straight pool. And Mosconi was a master of cue ball control. That's all it's about, cue control. NOBODY controled the cue ball as well as Willie, with the exception of Ralph Greenleaf. AND several of Willie's titles were won on 10 ft tables with smaller pockets. Once they changed to 9 ft it was child's play for Willie. Up and comers didn't stand a chance. Willie was used to bigger tables, smaller pockets.

[lemonite1]

Actually, Mosconi himself admitted that safety play was the worst side of his game. He was very offensive minded. Also, the better the players, the less safety play matters in straight. Great straight pool players aren't thinking defensive strategy, they're thinking how many they can run per inning. The pockets on those 10' were smaller but parallel cut rails and shallow shelf made them easy.

[lemonite1]

Then again, I was told that at one time there wasn't a game that Mosconi DIDN'T run 100+. I've watched recent professionals(including Germans) play straight pool and they have troubles running 50 on better equipment. Today's players don't have that straight pool "touch" or pattern play. IMO Mosconi would dominate today's players at straight but would lose at 9 Ball.

[bloodgutsnglory]

@lemonite1 Again, my point is 9 ball is such a simple game compared to what Mosconi was used to. All it would take is some practice and Willie could have cleaned up in 9 ball just like the other games. Lassiter as you see here was once considered the best 9 ball player the world ever knew. Guess who wins this match. WILLIE MOSCONI. You should read up on some of Willie's accomplishments. He won his 1st world title when tables were 10 ft long with smaller pockets. 9 ft tables were a toy to him.

[bloodgutsnglory]

@bloodgutsnglory Actually I stand corrected on this statement about Willie winning this match.

[bloodgutsnglory]

@lemonite1 not to mention Willie once ran 526 balls without a miss. Who today can do that?

[madisonhack]

Efren Ryes would make a monkey out of Mosconi. I say that will all the respect due to Mr. Mosconi - it's just that the game has changed to a different level, and it's due to the Philipino players, with Efren as the leader.

[Seracues]

Efren plays 9 ball, Willie plays straight pool. Straight pool is harder by far, and lets see Efren make 526 balls straight without missing not one. And since they played straight pool on an 8 foot table and not a 9 foot the spread was also closer together, so he had to work some serious magic to keep the streak. Efren is just good at improvising to situations better than todays people, Willie can do anything if it's on the pool table, even your mom!

[madisonhack]

Nine ball? He [Efren] is a world class three cushion billiard player, one pocket, eight ball, 15 ball rotation....

There is a story that I'm sure is true. Efren was playing straight pool prior to the 14.1 world championships. He ran over 400 balls and without missing, broke down his cue and quit because he was tired.

As I said before - with all due respect to Willie -

[Seracues]

"A story" of 400 balls, where as Mosconi ran 526 with 30+ Witnesses, aswell as he wasn't tired. Only person to come close with actual witnesses is Steve Mazerick. with like 480+ i think. But Steve i my opinion is one of the closest tournament players to Mosconi. I bet he can take Efren any day of the weak, games like that all depends on who breaks.

[madisonhack]

Steve Mizerak has been dead for a while, in case you didn't know that.

[Seracues]

Were thinking in different ways then, i was considering past + Present vsing eachother in there primes.

[joeygonzo]

@Seracues

Steve Mizerak himself said he was never in awe of anyone than he was in awe of Efren.

He said that in the Legends of 9-Ball Finals in LA when Efren played Jimmy Wetch.

Efren beat Mizerak in the semi-finals match of the World 8-Ball in Riviera in '95 or '96. Steve got to the table twice.

Efren is not just a 9-ball player.

Efren has won the world 8-ball multiple times. Has won the World 9-ball in 1999. Also won the world one-pocket and overall title at Derby Classic .

[chavezglassworks]

fail

[joeygonzo]

@madisonhack

Efren won the FIRST straight pool tournament he entered.

It was in Portland, Maine. He beat the great Jim Rempe in the semis and CJ Wiley in Finals.

Efren placed second in his only other straight pool tournament ( in NY , lost to Souquet in the finals ).

Efren's highest run is only 136 though. Since they only go to 150 points anyway.

John Schmidt and Thorsten Hohman have run over 400 .

[joeygonzo]

@Seracues

Look at those corner pockets. They're 5".

I'll take Efren against Willie in One Pocket, 8-ball and Rotation.

I'll take Efren on 3-cushion, English billiards, golf and balkline too.

[Seracues]

@joeygonzo You must not play Billiards, bigger pockets aren't exactly "Easier". In my experience bigger pockets are a lot of the time worse, it allows the ball to do odd things.

Also bigger pockets require even more dead on accuracy to be honest, cause you can rattle pockets easier when there bigger. Bigger pockets = more chances of getting robbed.

[joeygonzo]

@Seracues

You have no clue what you are talking about.

If what you are claiming is true, then snooker would be easier to play that pool.

If bigger pockets rattle more balls, then it'd be easier to play on pro-cut Diamond tables than on the table on this video.

Don't equate big pockets ratteling balls to bad cushion facing.

[Seracues]

@joeygonzo As a billiard player myself, i don't care what anyone says that is the difference on the tables i notice.

When players play at the caliber of Mosconi or Efren the size of the pockets really doesn't matter. If they want the ball going there, it's going to. So don't pull up omg that pockets a little bigger.

As for Steve saying whos better, than ill just point out my Uncle who's played just about every pro. When he played Mosconi he agreed he never seen anything better.

[joeygonzo]

@Seracues

You said bigger pockets rattle more balls on bigger pockets.

Which is totally bull kaka.

Look at the end rails on the table above.

See those end cushion facing with a cup/roundish shape on them?

Those make pocketing balls on rail shots easier.

If you think they don't make a difference, you don't play much.

Your uncle did not play Mosconi and Efren.

The Miz did.

Then again De Oro , Greenleaf and Worst might have been better than Efren and Willie.

[Seracues]

@joeygonzo Who are you to tell me my uncle didn't play someone?

And btw rail shots = easy regardless. Walking a ball down a rail is a shot that will go in everytime if you hit it correctly. No accuracy needed, and thats not what rattles pockets. Hitting a ball into a pocket at a certain angle with the right english will make it rattle, and with a bigger pocket it happens more often. Rather than a smaller pocket which forces the ball to go in regardless.

I'm done talking to a smart moron.

[joeygonzo]

@Seracues

You really should quit b/c you sound like you really know kaka about pool.

Rail shots require accuracy. Willie Mosconi liked to put a touch of inside English on balls frozen on the rail wherenever he shot them down the rail. Googe Wayne Norcross. He toured with Mosconi as his exhibition sparring partner. Wayne even has a video here.

You just proved yourself a clown when you said rail shots do not need accuracy.

[Seracues]

@joeygonzo Rail shots are easy, if a ball is frozen on a rail you hit the rail and the ball at the same time and it'll walk down it. Personally i like to put a touch of english to give the ball more speed but generally it depends on my next shot.

If you disagree with the way i walk a ball down a rail your a r-tard.

[joeygonzo]

@Seracues

It never fails. Youtube always attracts the bully punks.

It's you're a r-tard moron. Your a r-tard, lol.

True, hitting the rail and ball at the same time makes that ball go down the rail straight. Or a hair the rail first then the object ball.

Easy if the hit is 1/2 a ball or thicker. The thinner the hit, the more difficult.

The corner pockets are at their smallest on rail shots. Hence, rail shots are often the shot where the pros miss.

Why do they call pro-cut pockets pro-cut?

[joeygonzo]

@Seracues

They started doing pro-cut pockets to cut down on the slop, NOT rattles.

You will get more rattles on 4 1/2 corners than on 5" corners.

If you can't get that through your head, you are hopeless.

I own a Gold Crown II with 4 1/2 corners. Don't tell me it'll rattle more if it had 5" corners.

If you go to Hard Times, you will run into 4" corner pockets. You might not even beat the 5-ball ghost on those tables.

[Seracues]

@joeygonzo No matter what i say it won't change your mind, but ill just say this. When i was talking to Mike Massey he said it himself and quote "The man here spoils you guys with bigger pockets, or so you think".

Then i watched even him rattle a pocket in onepocket.

[joeygonzo]

@Seracues

So, he can't miss ?

Was it the Olhausen Rattle?

I saw Mike rattle a ball at Danny K's playing Danny.

Wooopdidooda , he's human.

Even if he was using his low-deflection Schuller shaft then.

Guess what kind of shot it was.

Yup, a rail shot with running english.

Pro-cut pockets are not larger. They are narrower.

You're too dense to admit that though.

[kamikazeVX]

Legends...If only players these days could b like them..even jz a lil bit...

[mastercueartist]

actually its not that rare i watched it on espn classic several times, and yes the push out is still used but yes he was considered one of the best cutters around but he BY FAR!!!! was not the best all around willie mosconi won the world championships more than 15 times luther won it like 5 or 6 and that was AFTER willie stopped playing

[herbiethebarber]

WTF is going on at 5 minutes?  The ref is aligning 3 balls? WTF? is he respotting a ball? I'm lost

[1more4theroad]

Those balls were made on the break and since Luther scratched in the side pocket on the break, they all come back out and are spotted from lowest to highest on a line starting at the foot spot going straight back to the foot rail.

[joeygonzo]

@1more4theroad

bingo.

That was the rule before the Texas Express Rules was started.

On Texas Exress Rules, only the money ball and cueball go back to the table on a scratches//fouls.

[aardvaark069]

Mosconi's break is especially interesting. Watch his stick. No big or fast moves butif you watch the results it's really unexpected.

[dokokai]

Great point about Mosconi's break. Remarkable that its so effective. He gives that stroke just barely anything more than a regular shot would require! That's just one more thing that makes him one of the greatest ever!

[kamikazeVX]

U r ryt!Amazing!He must've had really strong arm.

[jvswerbo]

thanks so much for posting this footage

[Trononguitar]

thanks for posting.

[itsawinnercouk]

Wow rare footage and a real treat. Thank you.

[mitosinuca]

some people say lassiter is the best 9 ball player ever, and mosconi still got the highest run in straight pool until today

[getsome510]

Thats right!!Lassiter was not only a great 9ball

player but the best all around player.because back in the day there used to be a rule called one shot push out ..so he would push out for a really tuff cut shot nearly impossible to cut...

so the other player wold say hell no!!and give him the shot back...then as a great shot maker he is....make the ball..and the rest is history!! Bucktooth told me that story.

[mitosinuca]

thats true, some people says he was the best at super fine cut shots, i would love to see him playing efren reyes, that would be a super match, but is never gonna happen :(

[herbiethebarber]

push out is still used, and has been used in 9ball since the 20 years i've watched it nice comment though :}

[mitosinuca]

thank you very much for posting this matches, those guys are true legends of the game, if u can post more matches like this, thank you