Chaplain Barry Black and Wintley Phipps on Bishop TD Jakes

[pelotongirl]

Thank you for sharing such an enlightened perspective. This is truly an humbling and timely message as we see God using ALL of His children to finish His work.

[MrAnthonyRizzo]

Like light shining into a dark room truth gradually reveals the nuances as it spreads into the recesses of that enclosure. It is important to note that the further away light gets from its source the more obscure the surroundings will be. Who benefits more those that are further or those that are closer to the light? It really depends on how effectively you are using it. But never long for less light always search out truth in its purest form. Adventist are ashamed of the truth they hold.

[pilgrimspoetry]

Could you please tell me the date when this program was presented?

[jeffrey64]

I disagree with Wintley's assertion that we lost focus. Some may have, but let's not indict the whole organization based on a leader's lack of focus on the mission. And why do we need to focus on famous people? We are all the same to the Lord, which is what they keep saying yet they talk about the "Who's" they know...we all need to be on our knees asking God what to do.

[whataregoodpasswords]

Psalms 100 tells us to make a joyful noise unto the lord, to get excited when we hear the word of God. When people hear real truth they have two decisions to make, either ad hear to the truth and change your ways or harden your heart and turn your back on God, don't be like the Jews, allow Jesus's agape love transform every aspect of your life and you will see your faith, peace, compassion, long suffering, kindheartedness, and love increase to a level that passeth ALL understanding.

[andrewcrawford24]

Perfectly said

[etueni1]

Listen carefully to what C E Bradford is saying at the end......praise the Lord.

[etueni1]

The body of Christ will finish strongly because of the out pouring of the Holy Spirit. Many are waiting to hear the truth about the 3 angels message and it doesnt take Dr's, scholars or a highly respected chaplain to do it.....the common people will finish the work. It doesnt matter if you been adventist all your life because the last will be first and first wil be last. We are not better than anyone else but we have a last day message to proclaim before the coming of our king. Praise the Lord

[etueni1]

Please brothers and sisters read the bible and pray and fast for yourselfs because the Devil knows his time is near...straight forward preaching of the 3 angels message will bring about the shakening in the church. John the baptist was told make straight the way of the Lord and it is our job to do this with a humble heart. Dont worry about the 2% let God do the converting.

[baphithi]

Wow! Is all I'm going to say. I'm truly blessed. Let them that have ears hear the word of God, and not their own words.

[dahlgren75]

Appeal to my SDA Brothers and Sisters. Do you really think that you can Evangelize the world when you call non SDA's Whore's and Babylon in this public forum? Is it your goal to win souls or repel them? Friends there is a time and a place for everything. Non SDA's are listening to you. Don't needlessly create prejudice and stir up antagonism. E.G. White who you quote cautions against creating wide divisions. Study Christ method. Then you won't be so one sided. Be wise. The video is right on.

[mahoganiqueen]

@dahlgren75 YES THIS VIDEO IS! AMEN!

[Asoldier1844]

(Revelation 18:4) What are her sins? The transgression of Jehovah's Law, and teaching men to do the same, therefore if we mingle with these apostate churches we will "partakers of her sins" and the warning is NOT to do so, but rather FLEE "that ye receive not of her plagues."

[Asoldier1844]

the truth, we have the same commission, go and make disciples of all nations, NOT worship with them under

Their doctrines and churches, "Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you..." (2 Corinthians 6:17) SDA's are to call Baptists, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Catholics, to abandon false worship....- And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sin

[Asoldier1844]

Are God's people in need of the false wine of "Babylon the great?" has not the Lord Jesus instructed us to be on the watch and not be deceived? It seems to me that these men have lost their identity, being a Seventh day Adventist Christian is being a prophet, we have the final warning message, who ever is an "arrogant" Adventist is a personal problem, Jesus was a humble man and so where the disciples, none the less these men stood strong for truth and contended against all those who appose the

[Asoldier1844]

"As the churches refused to receive the first angel's message, they rejected the light from heaven and fell from the favor of God". -EW 237.2

"In many churches the message was not permitted to be given, and a large company who had the living testimony left these fallen churches."- EW 238.3

"The churches, represented by Babylon, are represented as having fallen from their spiritual state..." —Testimonies to Ministers and Gospel Workers, 117

[Myrthan]

Speaking negatively about something or someone (and by this i mean CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM THAT THEY CAN HEAR AND APPLY), is not necessarily a sign of disdain or disrespect. It is a sign of care & concern. I believe this where Phipps & Black are coming from. Please remember that these men ARE SDAs. All they are saying is that we as the SDA church, all though we preach the truth...we don't have a monopoly on truth. There are still plenty of things we can learn from people of other faiths. Tis all!

[Hawgdawgrain]

As long as Ellen White's statements about "Sunday" churches being spiritual daughters of the whore of Babylon are allowed to exist as God-inspired, you guys will continue to fight these needless battles amongst yourselves. SDA's have TWO "authoritative sources of truth and correction".

Sad really...

[Myrthan]

@Hawgdawgrain ...nope. We have 1 authoritative source of truth and correction. THE BIBLE! Ellen White's writings are used like a biblical commentary, that helps us understand what the Bible says. But in NO WAY can do we believe that her writings are on the same level as the Bible.

[Hawgdawgrain]

@Myrthan

Then maybe you can explain this: "As the Lord's messenger, her (Ellen White) writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church instruction and correction." (Fundamental Doctrine #17, The Gift of Prophecy)

[Myrthan]

@Hawgdawgrain ...ok maybe my vocabulary isn't right....but my point is we put the Bible first. It is above Ellen White's writings. Ellen White herself wrote (i am paraphrasing here) that if people read and deeply studied the words of their Bibles and the prinicipals behind them, she would have had to write a thing. You forgot the sentence after that quote: "They also make clear that the BIBLE is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested."

[Myrthan]

@Myrthan....*she wouldN'T have had to write a thing.

[Hawgdawgrain]

@Myrthan

You are completely ignoring the FACT that your church has stated clearly that the writings of Ellen White are an "authoritative source of truth and correction". Let me frame this up for you: You have an additional source of authoritative truth and correction outside of Scripture.

To deny it is silly...it's your own words. Christians have ONE authoritative source of truth and correction: The Holy Sciptures.

The SDA Church has TWO.

[Myrthan]

@Hawgdawgrain ....sorta...you see just because we consider both the Bible & Ellen White's writings "authoritative" doesn't mean that they are on the same level. The Bible is what we use to prove any validity to what Ellen White wrote. If what she wrote was against the Bible...we wouldn't use her writings as a point of reference. Her writings are authoritative in the sense that we believe that they were inspired by God. HE is the authority. Not her. HE gives her writings authority and validity.

[Myrthan]

@Hawgdawgrain.... in our church we often call Ellen White's writing a "lesser light" that points to the "greater light"...the Bible and ultimately to Jesus, God's Son.

[BethanyChurchThomas]

@Myrthan

Thank you for admitting that she is an authortative source of truth and correction in your life. Now the fact is that you have TWO of those...not just one. Which means you are required to obey this source of "correction" and "truth".

The question then should be asked, "Do you following the writings of Ellen White?" All of them?

One more thing, she wrote many things that are contrary to Scripture so Jesus was not in her writings.

[Myrthan]

@BethanyChurchThomas Authoritative does not equal primary. I hope you understand that. The Bible is my primary source of truth & correction. I am required to obey what i read in EW's writings, as long it doesn't disagree with what I understand the Bible to be saying. Do I follow the writings of Ellen White? I'm not sure how to answer this question. I read them and to apply the truth I find there in my life. But the lady wrote ALOT of stuff. It would take a lifetime to read all of her writings.

[BethanyChurchThomas]

@Myrthan

Ellen says: "You place on your table butter, eggs, and meat, and your children partake of them. They are fed with the very things that will excite their animal passions, and then you come to meeting and ask God to bless and save your children. How high do your prayers go?" (2T, p. 362)

The Lord Himself, visited Abraham: "And he took butter, and milk, and the calf which he had dressed, and set [it] before them; and he stood by them under the tree, and they did eat." (Gen 18:8)

?

[baphithi]

@BethanyChurchThomas do you want to go further and tell us why she spoke against the butter, eggs and meat that we eat in our time? I seem to remember that it wasn't speaking against them for the sake of doing so. Watching TV alone makes me glad that meat stopped liking me - I never had to decide fortunately, it just happened one day after watching a presentation on what happens with our meat. And that's how I understand Ellen White's message.

[BethanyChurchThomas]

@Myrthan

Which will you follow since they are both authoritative?

[Myrthan]

@BethanyChurchThomas ... besides I am more concerned with reading the Bible and understand what it says, than I am with reading what Ellen White has written. I haven't finished reading and understanding the whole Bible yet. That in itself is a lifetime process. Why? Because the Bible is more important that Ellen White's writings. She herself said so. I use her writings as a commentary when I don't understand something in scripture. I plan on reading more of her writing as time goes on.

[baphithi]

@Myrthan, the most amazing discovery I made is that non-SDAs know EGW's books and love them. Never mind these people who make it their life commitment to oppose the SDA church as if there aren't billions of non-believers out there to spend their energy on.

[Myrthan]

@BethanyChurchThomas and @Hawgdawgrain.. from the Adventist understanding of scripture, and from my personal understanding of scripture, her writings agree with what the Bible says. .Hawgdawgrain, What she writes about Sunday churches being spiritual daughters of Babylon is spot on. Babylon in Revelation is an institution which is blasphemous. She tries to be "God on earth". Like the Catholic Church...that elevates the Pope as the main representative of God on earth with power to forgive sins.

[Myrthan]

@BethanyChurchThomas and @Hawgdawgrain... the Catholic church and other Protestant churches like her, that Sunday as the true day of worship, do so against the word of God and the will of God. In the Bible the 7th day is the Sabbath day. This a characteristic of Babylon. It mixes truth (we should worship God. And there should be a special day set aside each week for this purpose) with error (that day is the 7th day not the 1st day of the week).

[BethanyChurchThomas]

@Myrthan

"Sunday" churches are not babyon, it is SDAism which is in confusion. For example, you teach the Sabbath is the Seal of God when Scripture clearly teaches otherwise:

"And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit." - Ephesians 1:13

"And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption." - Ephesians 4:30

[baphithi]

@BethanyChurchThomas Brother, there are billions in China and India and elsewhere who have not heard about Jesus. Please turn your "guns" that way and blaze them with the truth of Jesus and work as hard as you are doing now, for their souls' sake.

[BethanyChurchThomas]

@baphithi

Then why are you guys printing millions of "The Great Controversy"? Here's an idea, print Bibles. Turn your guns away from Christian churches and stop calling them "daughters of the great whore of Babylon"...

[richdubose]

Wow. Powerful presentation. Very pointed and direct. It is a message that needs to be heard.

[4truth1truth]

They are describing an adventism that I have only known among high powered leaders such as themselves. Christ taught truth while mingling with men. Always. He never invited Caiphus to speak to the disciples. Perhaps they do not know that it is apostate protestentism that will stretch their hands acroos the gulf to unite their hands with spiritualism and the papal power in order to persecute Jesus in the person of His Sabbath keeping remnant...

[4truth1truth]

Do they really want T.D. Jakes to adress seventh day adventists? It seems almost as amazing as how Obama just began an american police state with the NDAA.

[4truth1truth]

Arrogance is a hard word. It seems like talking negativley about a group of people as arrogant because they don't have the access to others that they have had the "priviledge" to have met seems in itself arrogant to the thinking mind. True seventh dayadventist may seems obscure now but the day is soon soming when they will be thrust into the limelight to give the greatest testimony ever known before all kinds of statesmen and leaders.

[4truth1truth]

Why do these brothers speak so negatively about a church they profess to love. Why don't they speak of the adventist message? Does not the message have anything to do with their thinking?

[4truth1truth]

perhaps these men are entirley too far from their seventh day adventist roots, singing and so forth so that they do not know enough godly seventh day adventists. They should meet some of the brethren who have tried to live in harmony with all the counsels. Some of them are winning many souls and loving people into the whole truth. Not into a ceremonial church.

[4truth1truth]

To the law and to the testimonay. If they speak not according to this word it is because there is no light in the. What communion hath the darkness with the light.

Be ye not unequally yolked together. ...and he decieved the world by the means of those miracles which he was able to do in the presence of the first beast.

You shall know the truth and the truth shall shet you free. All them that are willing to do the will of God shall know the doctrine.

[yoganandarita]

this is deep and powerful

[silverleafglen]

Great testimony for the true gospel....God bless these men who stand for what

are the true God's commandments...(Matthew 5:19)..love your neighbor...in real life. Sad for

those who still think that Sabbath is the main commandment.. and still keep reading

the Bible with a narrow  and arrogant view..

[benmykel]

Thanks to pastors Black and Phipps for candor, insight, intelligence and willingness to share on this dynamic topic.This forum provided an opportunity for many to gain greater insight. Pastor Wilson thanks for your ease and interviewing skills. More than anything, I want to hear those words "well done" for devotion and attention to the 6 questions. In 2012 its all about feeding, visiting, healing, helping, sharing the GOOD NEWS of the GOSPEL... the rest will follow. Thanks Pastors!

[Wellstigate]

It is one thing to personally engage in discourse with others of different doctrinal understanding than yourself but to give them access to others who may not be of sufficient spiritual maturity is quite an altogether different matter, in fact it may even be negligent

[Anderson69728]

It's confirmed the presence of Bishop TD Jakes at Oakwood University? The leaders of the university accepted it? Unfortunate ...

[Myrthan]

@Anderson69728 ...uhh no. They canceled the invitation! <----an Unkind decision BTW!

[Myrthan]

@Anderson69728 ....it wasn't a pulpit, calm down. It was just a seminar/conference/forum. And he was only going to preach about spiritual leadership.

[dahlgren75]

I believe it is ok disagree doctrinally with leaders. But when 1 segment of the church is trying to reach someone even a high profile leader, it never right to demonize individuals who have a different view to ours. This is not Christ's way - because we cannot read hearts and don't have prophetic infallibility to judge what people might respond to and where they are in terms of openness to the Holy Spirit at any given point in time. That's why Jesus said it's like the wind thou canst not tell.

[dahlgren75]

Reasonable points. This seminar was not for students who are usually taking finals during the council but for Pastors in the world field. TD Jakes did air his misunderstanding of the Sabbath. But he was going to speak on a common goal not a difference. Although he knows SDA's I doubt that he has professional relationships with us. In the context of mutual relationships our witness & light shines clearer.If our ministers could be influenced by Jakes error the sooner we know it the better.

[bates1316]

Elder Phipps and Elder Black should've been asked how they feel about TD Jakes openly teaching people that Sabbath-keeping isn't important. What if TD Jakes openly taught people that refraining from murder isn't important, would our SDA leadership still invite him to speak at Oakwood then? Didn't Jesus say in Matt. 5:19, "Whosoever therefore shall BREAK one of these least commandments, and shall TEACH MEN SO, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven . . ."

[jferrier777]

Eze 44:7 In that ye have brought into my sanctuary strangers, uncircumcised in heart, and uncircumcised in flesh, to be in my sanctuary, to pollute it, even my house, when ye offer my bread, the fat and the blood, and they have broken my covenant because of all your abominations.(No more strangers to our pulpits!Go ye therefore!

Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

[andrewcrawford24]

These men are sold out to the ecumenical movement......no further comment....

[dahlgren75]

@andrewcrawford24 That is a ridiculous and scandalous claim. You validate everything the concerns presented on the video. How can u judge people u don't know. How is W. Phipps supporting the ecumenical movement when by his very testimony because of his openness toward non sda relationships he was able to be an instrument of God to keep the door open so that the 3 Angels msg could be proclaimed in Russia. If he had followed sentiments here the work would have closed. Make righteous Judgments.

[dahlgren75]

@andrewcrawford24 Scandalous. These men love the SDA Church. The same charge was made of Jesus. He is a winebibber. critized, hated, slandered because he ignored boundaries and felt all souls were equal in the sight of God. Rm Catholics, Gay Marriages. These sentiments violate the Spirit of the 3 Angels Message and confirm that some SDA's are not nice people and have not been transformed by the message they harshly present. 3 Angels message cannot be separated from Righteousness & Truth.

[mahoganiqueen]

@andrewcrawford24 Praise the LORD...Now we no longer have to listen to your FALSE CLAIMS and Pharisiaical FOOLISHNESS!

[andrewvalroy]

@andrewcrawford24 I agree... fame and fortune is trumping truth. TD Jakes was to be The main speaker at our evangelism conference and they are defending this. What would EGW say. I am not a fan of Whitney Phipps because he brags a lo about his importance, knowing Oprah and Clinton etc. I went to one of his presentations and came away thinking God was not credited with his "success".

[andrewcrawford24]

Perfectly said. Truth and falsehood will never mix. God had to separate Lucifer from heaven. Darkness and light will not coexist! As a church we love all people yet we must not allow for ecumenicalism. Those two men are sold out to political correctness. The sheep and goats must be divided.

[Unity3000]

@andrewcrawford24 What is that?

[mahoganiqueen]

@andrewcrawford24 #FAIL

[dapianoman76]

God bless you all! I am definitely not here to debate!

:-)

[dapianoman76]

Are all other churches besides the SDA Church REALLY "the fallen churches of Babylon"?? REALLY?

SMH!

[MrAVS10]

@dapianoman76 In the Old Testament, God had one sheepfold to represent Him...the children of Israel. All others, the Gentiles, were referred to as pagans. God still has one sheepfold, even though it has pagans in it, but He also has His people in every other sect of society..."Babylon" (confusion). He is calling them out into His one sheepfold and will spew the dross out of it in the process. If the one sheepfold isn't the Adventist church, please share with me who it is. Thanks.

[dapianoman76]

@MrAVS10 Being that the SDA Church didn't come into existence until 1860-1863, there has to be a bigger group than that representing him on earth. After the failure of the Jews, the NT and the Cross opens up this group to represent people of every kindred and tongue.

[MrAVS10]

@dapianoman76 The message of mercy & warning goes to every kindred & tongue but it has to come from somewhere. The Israelites were vastly outnumbered by the pagan nations around them & the ark only had eight people in it so it's not about numbers...it's about living in loving obedience to God by serving Him and others. In the end, it won't be about a church name, per se, it will be about who lives this message and joins in with those who acknowledge God's authority and serve Him.

[dapianoman76]

@MrAVS10 BUT, is "an end time message of warning" all that the SDA Church should be teaching?

[MrAVS10]

@dapianoman76 No.We should be living and teaching the love and character of Jesus Christ. With that said though, we can't ignore our calling in the process.Christianity is a movement of growth that started with the apostles and continued through the Reformers; the Advent movement is the end of it. If we ignore our calling it stalls the movement. God has always increased the light, although Satan suppressed it during the Dark Ages.After those times, the light was to come through us.

[andrewcrawford24]

@MrAVS10 Amen and Amen! Perhaps the two men are on the paylist of Roman Catholics! The two men will soon support gay marriages. Perhaps they have already!!!

[MrAVS10]

@andrewcrawford24 Let's pray that isn't the case. People of God are everywhere and in various circumstances. None of us are in a position to judge one another, but we are obligated, as watchmen on the wall of Israel, to call out error when we see it. We simply don't know who will be saved in the end. Let's continue to individually draw closer to Christ by beholding Him so our characters are transformed into His likeness and lift one another up in prayer as we journey together.

[andrewcrawford24]

@MrAVS10 I know that but the SDA is the chosen for last days

[MrAVS10]

@andrewcrawford24 I agree...and what will attract others to the Truth as we proclaim the 3AM (which IS our mission) is Jesus' love shining forth from within us. Thankfully, Daniel 12:3 along with Revelation 7:9 & 14 reveal that this will happen. Let us remain connected to Jesus so it can happen for and through us. God bless you, my brother.

[dahlgren75]

Stop criticizing how God is using particular ways to win people, plant seeds that are different from yours. Don't be so prejudiced concerning other methods. You do know how the H.S. may be using someone. The 3 Angels Message shall have its greatest impact when given by people who resemble him. "When the character of Christ shall be perfectly reproduced in His people, then He will come to claim them as His own." {COL 69.1}

[MrAVS10]

@dahlgren75 I agree with the SOP quotes but it doesn't allow us to compromise who we are in support of joining the ecumenical movement. If you're going to use SOP quotes to support your position, consider everything stated about joining into unions with those who trample on the law of God. We can love and form relationships, but when we forsake our prophetic calling, we run the risk of missing out on God's blessings as did the Jews 2,000 years ago. This doesn't have to happen.

[dahlgren75]

Christ is waiting with longing desire for the manifestation of Himself in His church." Our work is not just to call out of Babylon. We are to follow Christ's methods. Build relationships, Demonstrate compassion then there will be time for hard truth.

[dahlgren75]

The 3 Angels msg. calls not only 4 content but also 4 character. What world needs in these last days is "what it needed 1900 years ago - a Revelation of Christ" MH143. Too many of us are too exclusive to call anyone out of Babylon. We are blind to the possibilities in front of us as the ancient Jews were. We proclaim the law yet violate its spirit by offensive statements omitting weightier matters, love faith & compassion.

[jferrier777]

@ laymen,keep the faith bro,b faithful as He who has called us, is Faithful,a few of us are truly pained,it must happen though,still at the same breathe remember them when you pray.

[MrAVS10]

@jferrier777 Amen!

[laymenevangelism]

Brokenhearted by this... there are mean people everywhere wheat and tares will grow together, but God has called out an end time people, a movement preaching the everlasting gospel, with no apology, no compromise, we are forgetting counsels as was foretold. God help us when political correctness and status become more important than God's message. Would their message be same if Pastor Phipps, Chaplain Black and other Pastors would really preach the 3 Angels Messages with power of Holy Spirit?

[MrAVS10]

@laymenevangelism Amen!

[MrAVS10]

We are to love individuals, but once we stop calling the fallen churches of Babylon what they truly are, we will lose our identity and possibly our salvation. The world needs a group of believers to call God's people out of all false systems of worship and Seventh-day Adventists have the message to do just that. Style is less important than substance. As Paul told Timothy..."Preach the word!"  The world needs the hard, separating truth. Let's not compromise it for anything.

[MrAVS10]

E.G. White commented on 2 Corinthians 3:18 by saying, "by beholding we become changed". It appears to me from this interview that some Adventist leaders have been negatively influenced ("changed") by too much interaction with the ecumenical movement, which, in order to maintain a particular status, is not surprising. Rachel Oakes could not have been kicked out of an Adventist meeting because she spoke the truth. Jesus fraternized with non-believers but He didn't compromise. Lord please help us.

[andrewcrawford24]

@MrAVS10Amen!

[pjallen1103]

Truly a blessing to hear this and I pray it will be taken to heart, Hats off to their candor!

[andrewcrawford24]

@pjallen1103 Bogus

[Imajonme]

"At the end of the day if we do not resemble, reflect and reveal the character of God all of this is in vain." - Wintley Phipps

"I want the liberty and freedom others have, the anointing of God IS everywhere." - Chaplain Barry Black

Luke 9:49,50

[LindaMc3p]

Amen. Amen. Amen. And again, amen.

[ronkcub]

Powerful word shared.