Wanna know more about ISLAM? See lecturs on YouTube by: - Yusuf ESTES (Texas, USA) - Abdur rahim GREEN (UK) - Salem Al AMRY (UAE) - Assim Al HAKEEM (SA) - Yasir QADHI (USA) - Hussain YEE (Malaysia) - Ahmed DEEDAT (South Africa) - Musa CERANTONIO (Australia) - Abdullah Hakim QUIK (Canada) - Eddie (thedeenshow com) - Baba ALI (ummahfilms com) - Zakir NAIK (peacetv TV) - Khalid Yasin (Harlem, USA) - Nouman Ali Khan Or go to: SHAREISLAM COM QURAN COM
and since you so gladly blast the bible ,like in this comment: Christianity is based on one BIG abrogation. According to you Paul came and arrogated the entire Judaic LAW, then maybe you expalin what you mean by that ? was Paul talking to jews or pagans?
psychlopes oyu were kind ot snub all hadiths outside of bukhari and muslim as weak and probably unauthenticated. that is a bold statement . so would you allege any reasons why tabari's hadiths ,for example, on the satanic verse were weak or unauthenticated?
psychlopes, aren't you just funny? you don't know what reference to tabari am i making? well it was you who argued that the hadiths refering the satanic verses were spurious !!!! and , now do careto know, these hadiths are also contained i tabari. so tell me, how come you don't see any reference to tabari in your comments but you do claim his hadiths are fake.?
Again, you need to educate yourself about the discipline of Hadith collection. Your comments show how little you know about how things work in Islam. As for Taqiyya, I'm a Sunni, Taqiyya is a Shiite invention. LOL. It's like me trying to debate Christianity with you by quoting the book of Mormons. It's amazing how you think you know Islam, when everything that you say just proves more and more how little you know.
The reason why Quran is not divine, is that, it contains many defects, contradictions, wrong morals and incorrect science, and on top of it, all this has been copied from other sources.
Quran contains a sprinking of 'scientific' statements, which tried to impress the illiterate reader 1400 years ago. That was the era in which the Sun and the Moon were thought to go around the Earth.
psychlopes,.how long will i have to wait for you to give us references to scholars' treatises refuting the hadiths on the satanic verses contained in tabari? i begin to suspect you have nothing on tabari who you said had tainted infomation simply because you couldn't think of anything better, are you just another muslim bigmouth?
And I thought you were a bit more intellect that to assume superiority of argument, just because your opponent is taking a bit more time than usual to reply. I don't know about you, but my life doesn't revolve around youTube. And I have some more pressing matters to tend to in my daily life, when I'm done with those I'll respond to your questions.
Care to point out exactly what tabari reference you're talking about, I don't see a reference to tabari in my comments below, but perhaps I quoted something from memory that was actually from Tabari, so refresh me memory, so that I could answer.
psychlopes1976!Where are you!it was just a trailer the film is still remaining.
I have to talk to you about you pagan allah and how he is the best deceiver and of course about your pedophile, rapist & murderer prophet and his pagan heritage.
How eloquent and comprehensive 1992rmaw was - The Royal priest of the True God!
I enjoyed every bit of it. You were to stay but guess truth about islam hurts so leave the satanic islam.:)
you are all insane ^^ there is no god, this discussion is like a batman nerd and a superman nerd who are discussing over who is the cooler superhero xD
psychlopes,since you insist on the importance of relaible sources when you refute Throbleeds arguments, may i then reverse your argument against you and ask for the same? you said what Throbleed quite rightly wrote about the satanic verse is of little importance as the hadiths relating that story were untrustworthy and their isnad contains unreliable people, so now, please maybe you should supply us with information on your sources that claim the story related by tabari is unreliable?
psychlopes- you said : why would satan be interested in overpowering hte prophet if that revelation wasn't from God? it means you don't see any reason for satan to be interested in non prophets ! you imply that satan's only interest is to distort God's message. poor chap , maybe that wasn't what you meant but that is what came out in text
psychlopes , you are so far out ! so you really think that i copypasted my refutal of your question about satan and Muhammad? are you so full of yourself to think that there are whole websites dedicated to the sole purpose of disproving your contingent inconsequential offhand youtube comments ? either it is megalomania or you just blather out without giving much thought to it
psychlopes ,what a nice start- i have read your comments here and noticed that you were always so eager to swear that you were far from ad hominem arguments. and now, my dear muslim, what a climbdown -you start discussion with me with remarks on my low intelligence !
You got me where you like! LOL. Youre again demonstrating your ignorance in the science of Hadith compilation. When I tell you that Ibn Ishaqs hadiths are not all Sahih that has no bearing on the character of Ibn Ishaq, it only means that the chain of narrators he accepted sometimes included people who were not entirely reliable, and sometimes people known for lying sometimes.
If anything that is a sign of his integrity, since he always states the chain of narrators note how the hadiths always start with something like (on the authority of this guy who had heard it from that guy etc). You can only wish you had this sort of integrity in your sources for your bible - LOL. If he was a dishonest person he would have sugar quoted possibly weak hadiths that could harm Islam.
Hadith collection is a science that has strict regulations for what would be considered Sahih authentic based on the elaborate study of the characters of the narrators to establish their reliability and honesty, and the number of people who narrated the same hadith. Since you asked, Bukhari and Muslim and the two scholars who accepted nothing from anybody who wasnt 100% reliable. So those are the two sources that most Sunni Muslims take to be the ultimate source for Authentics hadiths.
"psychlopes1976! What a waste of time!filthy muslim!" Oh, you really humbled me with your kind words, true Christians like youself never fail to show me the true nature of their loving religion. Get a life! You couldn't come up with any real arguments, you you resorted to petty insults!
psychlopes - your argument boils down to this - if satan did try to temper with the quran ,it is the proof of the divine inspiration imparted to Muhammad as satan wouldn't have had any reasons to whisper to Muhammad if the quran wasn't from God, so satan is around only to misguide prophets? are common people , poor souls, beneath his dignity to lead astray?if you think that satan would be only interested in prophets,you must surely believe satan hasnt acted in this world for 1300 years?
1992rmaw - So that is what you got from what I said? I'm sorry your intellect couldn't grasp what I said then, I'll make it simpler to you, What I said does not mean Satan is only interested in prophets, and during the past 1300 years he was busy creating people like you :) If you can't understand simple logic, don't try to respond, you're only making a fool our of yourself. Read my comment again, over and over, I'm sure in the end it will dawn on you.
psychlopes you have bothered to reiterate one question so many times that it would great pity if you didn't stoop to answer it -namely you asked: why would satan be interested in overpowering the prophet and getting him ot say sth other than what revealed to him if that revalation wasn't from God?
where is the psychlopes? has he emptied his grabbag of trite half- baked islamic platitudes?by the way ,is it permissable for a muslim to be smitten with pagan ancient greek mythology?that is anathema to all narrow-minded mullahs!
"where is the psychlopes?" The psychlopes didn't know that someone was responding to his comments because that person wasn't smart enough to reply to "the psychlopes" individual comments, and hence, the "Psychlopes" didn't get notified by email. Don't flatter yourself.
"where is the psychlopes?:" It's lovely how being away for a day or two got you so ecstatic that you thought I was beaten by your non-existent logic based on copy-paste argument, which obviously means you have no opinion of your own except for what people tell you to believe. Very sad indeed.
24)Despite the fact that there is not a single shred of evidence to support that Hagar was in Mecca or that Zam-zam was the well that sprung forth miraculously by the angel, Ali admits that the hills of Safa and Marwa originally housed two pagan idols. The Hadith relates that the Muslims were hesitant to run between these two hills due to their connection with Arab pagan practices:
Bottom line is you have no evidence that those pilgrimage rituals were purely pagan and had no origins from true monotheism. What you provided so far proves nothing more than they were rituals that were practiced by the pagans, but they don't have any weight in terms of proving your point saying that they originated or invented by the pagans. Nice try though. Better luck next time!
23)The lesson is that the most sacred things may be turned to the basest uses; that we are not therefore necessarily to ban a thing misused; that if our intentions and life are pure, God will recognize them even if the world cast stones at us because of some evil associations which they join with what we do, or with the people we associate with, or with the places which claim our reverence." (Ali, The Holy Qur'an: Translation and Commentary [Lahore, 1934 &1937],p. 62,fn.160;CAPS emphasis MINE)
22)...AS A MATTER OF FACT THEY SHOULD HAVE KNOWN THAT THE KA'BA (THE HOUSE OF GOD) HAD BEEN ITSELF DEFILED WITH IDOLS, and was sanctified again by the purity of Muhammad's life and teaching...
21)...UNFORTUNATELY, THE PAGAN ARABS HAD PLACED A MALE AND FEMALE IDOL HERE, AND THEIR GROSS SUPERSTITIOUS RITES CAUSED OFFENSE TO THE EARLY MUSLIMS. They felt some hesitation in going round these places during the Pilgrimage...
20)The late Quranic translator, Yusuf Ali, stated:
"The virtue of patient perseverance in faith leads to the mention of two symbolic monuments of that virtue. These are two little hills of Safa and Marwa, now absorbed in the city of Mecca and close to the well of Zam-zam. Here, according to tradition, the lady Hajar, the mother of the infant Isma'il, prayed for water in the parched desert, and in her eager quest round these hills, she found her prayer answered and saw the Zam-zam spring...
19)The Quran itself commanded Muslims to continue practicing the pagan rites as part of the religion:
Behold! Safa and Marwa are among the Symbols of Allah. So if those who visit the House in the Season or at other times, should compass them round, it is no sin in them. And if any one obeyeth his own impulse to good, — be sure that Allah is He Who recogniseth and knoweth. Surah al-Baqarah 2:158
Nice job copy/pasting from answering Islam and other similar cheesy websites BTW. I'll recommend you to any business contact I know who has a need for a data entry drone like yourself.
18)Despite the Jews allegedly claiming that Abraham had built the Kaba, they still refused to partake of performing a pilgrimage to it due to all the idols contained therein which defiled it. And yet Muhammad, who is supposed to be God's final prophet, has no hesitation in running around a structure littered with abominable objects detested by the true God!
17)The king asked why they too should not do likewise. They replied that it was indeed the temple of their father Abraham, but the idols which the inhabitants had set up round it, and the blood which they shed there, presented an insuperable obstacle. They are unclean polytheists, said they - or words to that effect. (Guillaume, The Life of Muhammad, pp. 8-9)
16)... They [the rabbis] told that the sole object of the tribe was to destroy him and his army. We know of no other temple in the land which God has chosen for Himself, said they, and if you do what they suggest you and all your men will perish. The king asked them what he should do when he got there, and they told him to do what the people of Mecca did: circumambulate the temple, to venerate and honour it, to shave his head, and to behave with all humility until he had left its precincts.
15)Some Muslims tried to read back into pre-Islamic history the belief that Abraham and Ishmael built the Kaba. But in so doing, they only managed to do further damage to Muhammad's prophetic claims. For example, the oldest biographer of Muhammad's life, Ibn Ishaq, mentioned an event which supposedly took place before Muhammad's time where certain Jewish rabbis are said to have told a king that the Kaba was built by Abraham. Yet, Ishaq, by mentioning this story, actually incriminates Muhammad:
14)We must keep in mind that at this time in Muhammad's life, there was no revelation alleging that Abraham and Ishmael originally built the Kaba. That came later in his life. As far as Muhammad was concerned, the Kaba was nothing more than a pagan shrine erected in honor of pagan deities.
13)"And when the apostle of God had finished his period of seclusion and returned (to Mecca), in the first place he performed the circumambulation of the Ka'ba, as was his wont. While he was doing it, Waraqa met him and said, O son of my brother, tell me what thou hast seen and heard.'" (Sirat Rasulullah, trans. Alfred Guillaume, The Life of Muhammad [Oxford University Press, Karachi], p. 107; bold emphasis ours)
12)In fact, Muhammad's indulgence in idolatrous practices continued right into his alleged prophetic calling. For instance, the first Muslim biographer Ibn Ishaq recorded the following incident that occurred after Muhammads supposed encounter with Gabriel:
Not everything Ibn Ishaq has is Sahih. If you can't find it in the Sahih Muslim or Sahih Bukhari. It's probably weak or even fabricated. And we have the right narration of the hadith in the Bukhari, and one of those narrations clearly says that the prophet "refused" to eat from the meal. So you have nothing.
psychlopes1976! I actually feel sorry for you :) on the other hand I am enjoying your CIRCUS.did't I tell you earlier that you would/could only refute your islam sources.Denying sources won't save you or your islam :)
It is your word against theirs! let us see who is lying..LOL
According 2 you IBN ISHAQ is dishonest!Al Kalbi is known for collecting very weak and fabricated Hadiths...TELL ME WHO ISN"T...why don't you invent your own islam..LOL I have you were I like....Smooch!
12)They are worthless: they can neither harm nor profit anyone," or words to that effect.' The apostle added, 'After that I never knowingly stroked one of their idols nor did I sacrifice to them until God honoured me with his apostleship. (Guillaume, Islam [Penguin USA; ISBN: 0140203117], pp. 26-27; bold and capital emphasis mine; bold emphasis ours)
YAAAWN, you bore me. No authentic hadiths yet. I'm very amused, but I need to get back to work. I'm done with you. Not only are you copt/pasting, but you're doing a bad job at even selecting what to copy. You wouldn't be able to refute a Muslim 5th grader. Get a life!
11)He replied, "Surely it is part of those sacrifices of theirs which they offer to their idols?" When I said that it was, he said, "Nephew mine, if you were to ask the daughters of 'Abd al-Muttalib they would tell you that I never eat of these sacrifices, and I have no desire to do so." Then he upbraided me for idolatry and spoke disparagingly of those who worship idols and sacrifice to them, and said,
10)Quraysh had made a public example of him for abandoning his religion, so that he went out from their midst. I sat down with him. I had a bag containing meat which WE HAD SACRIFICED TO OUR IDOLS — Zayd b. Haritha was carrying it — and I offered it to Zayd b. 'Amir — I was but a lad at the time — and I said, "Eat some of this food, my uncle.
9)Alfred Guillaume gives a tradition recorded by the first Muslim biographer, Ibn Ishaq, who wrote:
I was told that the apostle of Allah said, as he was talking about Zayd son of 'Amr son of Nufayl, 'He was the first to upbraid me for idolatry and forbade me to worship idols. I had come from al-Ta'if along with Zayd son of Haritha when we passed Zayd son of 'Amr who was in the highland of Mecca.
8)In fact, noted historian of the Arab peoples Philip K. Hitti accepts the veracity of al-Kalbi's report:
Al-'Uzza (the most mighty,Venus,the morning star) had her cult in Nakhlah east of Makkah. According to al-Kalbi,hers was the most venerated idol among the Quraysh, &Muhammad as a young man offered her a sacrifice. (Hitti,History of the Arabs from the Earliest Times to the Present, revised tenth edition,new preface by Walid Khalidi [Palgrave Macmillan,2002;ISBN:0-333-63142-0 paperback],p.99)
P.S. Al Kalbi is known for collecting very weak and fabricated Hadiths. If you want to prove anything to a Muslim, you'd do well by not citing him as your resource, or else your credibility would go down to zero.
"Philip K. Hitti accepts the veracity of al-Kalbi's " Oh great, a western "historian" I'm SURE he's got no agenda. LOL. You're an idiot. First you falsify a hadith and then you bring hadiths from sources that are either weak or completely bear no weight with Muslims, and you think you're refuting me? LOOOOL, It's like me pulling out the gospel of Barnabas to refute the bible. Get real!!! LOL, what a joke you are.
6)"He said, "To one of the idols." Zayd then said: "I am not the one to eat anything slaughtered for a divinity other than God." (Al-Kharqushi, Sharaf al-Mustafa, cited in F. E. Peters, Muhammad and the Religion of Islam [State University of New York Press (SUNY), Albany 1994], pp. 126-127)
psychlopes1976!Stop whimpering!I have made you pee wait till you see your rasul peeing in pants FROM CRYING!...shouting and dodging won't safe you and certainly it is not refutation...by the way I play with your AYESHA ;) now listen to what I have to say...you follower of a pedophile:)
5)He said, "This (happened) without my being the cause of their hatred; but I found them associating divinities with God and I was reluctant to do the same. I wanted (to worship God according to) the religion of Abraham..." The Prophet said, "Would you like some food?" He said, "Yes." Then the Prophet put before him the (meat of the ewe). He (that is, Zayd ibn Amr) said: "What did you sacrifice to, O Muhammad?"
4)The Prophet slaughtered an ewe for one of the idols (nusub min al-ansab); then he roasted it and carried it with him. Then Zayd ibn Amr ibn Nufayl met us in the upper part of the valley; it was one of the hot days of Mecca. When we met we greeted each other with the greeting of the Age of barbarism, in'am sabahan. The Prophet said: "Why do I see you, O son of Amr, hated by your people?
"he Prophet slaughtered an ewe for one of the idols"
I notice you're not giving your reference for that new version of the Hadith you're quoting, why I wonder? could it be because its not from Authentic Islamic sources?
3)Despite the fact that the parenthetical statements — "that had been offered to him by the pagans" and "to the pagans" — are not part of the Arabic text, the point is still clear that Muhammad ate food sacrificed to idols while Zaid refused to eat it. This is brought out clearly from the following citations taken from F.E. Peters. According to a tradition reported by Zaid ibn Haritha, who was also present at the event,
Not part of the Arabic text? really? Again you have no shame, lying to an Arab .LOL, no my friend, it's there in the Arabic text. I'm not going to waste more of my time with you. LOL
psychlopes1976! I told you to start cirus! You have no idea what you are talking about....Lying and deceiving like your allah won't save you....You said you were here to stay...Now keep quite and listen to what I have to say...and you'll know the real meaning of refutation....LOL
2)Narrated 'Abdullah:Allah's Apostle said that he met Zaid bin 'Amr Nufail at a place near Baldah and this had happened before Allah's Apostle received the Divine Inspiration.Allah's Apostle presented a dish of meat(that had been offered 2him by the pagans)2 Zaid bin 'Amr, but Zaid refused to eat of it and then said (2 the pagans)"I do not eat of what Uslaughter on UR stone altars(Ansabs)nor do I eat except that on which Allah's Name has been mentioned on slaughtering."(Sahih al-Bukhari7:407)
psychlopes1976! A prominent feature of Islam is that most of its rites and practices were adopted from the pagan Arabian rituals of Muhammad's time. To hide their pagan origins, Muhammad claimed that God initially sanctioned these rites. In fact, before, during, and after his mission, Muhammad continued to perform rites that were nothing more than idolatry. For instance, a hadith of al-Bukhari records that, prior to his calling, Muhammad made sacrifices to the pagan idols:
(cont.) 53:23 (Y. Ali) These are nothing but names which ye have devised,- ye and your fathers,- for which Allah has sent down no authority (whatever). They follow nothing but conjecture and what their own souls desire!- Even though there has already come to them Guidance from their Lord! (cont.). So the verse clearly says that the pagans made up stories about God having daughters. (they associated partners with the one true God which they knew)
Allah's Apostle said that he met Zaid bin 'Amr Nufail at a place near Baldah and this had happened before Allah's Apostle received the Divine Inspiration.Allah's Apostle presented a dish of meat to Zaid bin 'Amr, but Zaid refused to eat of it &then said "I do not eat of what you slaughter on your stone altars (Ansabs) nor do I eat except that on which Allah's Name has been mentioned on slaughtering."(Sahih Al-Bukhari,Vol 7,Book 67,No 407)
You just presented me with the means to refute you once and for all, and expose you as a liar (or at least a sheep who knows only what he reads on anti-Islamic sites) by quoting this hadith, and I will come to how in a minute...
1- The hadith has been mutilated by whatever site you got it from 2- If anything this hadith is a proof of what I told you about the Hanifs who were monotheists living among the pagans (believing Allah was the one Triue God, and not a pagan god) as Zaid was a Hanif himself - evident by what he (actually) said
Narrated 'Abdullah: Allah's Apostle said that he met Zaid bin 'Amr Nufail at a place near Baldah and this had happened before Allah's Apostle received the Divine Inspiration. Allah's Apostle presented a dish of meat (that had been offered to him by the pagans) to Zaid bin 'Amr, but Zaid refused to eat of it and then said (to the pagans), "I do not eat of what you slaughter on your stonealtars (Ansabs) nor do I eat except that on which Allah's Name has been mentioned on slaughtering."
Care to tell me why you'd dropped the part saying that the dish was offered to the prophet by (the pagans) and the one saying that Zaid was actually addressing the pagans? You see that is a blatant lie on its own. And having exposed that I should really just rest my case and let the readers decide who the liar and the "coward" (cont.)
Also, just FYI , the prophet too refused the meal before offering it to Zaid, evident by another narration of the same Hadith - Volume 5, Book 58, Number 169: even adds - which says (A meal was presented to the Prophet but he refused to eat from it...)
So before I go any further, and waste more of my time debating with a person who is so obviously willing to lie in hi arguments. You need to explain yourself, and your blatant misquotation of the hadith, that you thought would prove your point, but ends up backing up everything that I said. Don't worry, you're not to blame, you're just the sheep, all Boutrus's arguments are based on fabrications and lies like this one. Again, thank you for proving my point.
I leave you now with this last thought, before I retire to sleep. Be honest with yourself, and ask, how can you trust the anti-Islam sites that you go to for information, when they obviously provide you with fabricated, mutilated, out of context, or misinterpreted verses and hadiths that Muslims believe in? I don't mind you coming to me to debate our religion and theology, but next time (after you admit your mistake) do your own research first.
Al-Qasim b. Al-Hasan al Husayn b. Daud Hajja Abu Mashar Muhammad b. Kab al-Qurazi and Muhammad b. Qays: The Messenger of God was sitting in a large gathering of Quraysh, wishing that day that no revelation would come to him from God which could cause them to turn away from him. Then God revealed:
By the Star when it sets, your comrade does not err, nor is he deceivedContinued
And what really amazes me was how you copy/pasted your argument exactly to the same letter from your anti-Islamic site. You didn't even bother to personalize it a bit. Nice!
But anyway, how does that relate to the relationship of god to those idols? Or are you just jumping in to aid you body in arms against Islam, who was just proven to be a distorter of facts?
Actually in the bible, old prophets were tempted into committing sins that were in some cases heinous - how do you know those were not of the devil? The story you're citing doesn't Show Satan overpowering the prophet to do something willingly that he wouldn't otherwise do. It's just one of Satan's tricks, and you have no proof in the bible saying that Satan could not do the same for biblical prophets.
Ibn Ishaq also reports that "Labid bin Asam . . . bewitched the apostle of God so that he could not come at his wives." Guillaume adds a note saying that, according to tradition, "the spell lasted for a year." Ibn Ishaq, p. 240.
Siraat of Mohammad proves that he was overpowered by the Devil, which makes Mohammd unique among all prophets before him!! Doesn't it ???
BTW Ibn Ishaq's book was a biography that didn't follow the strict regulations of Hadith collection. So, If you want to prove a point using a hadith, please cite an authentic hadith by one of the credited Muslim hadith collectors, preferably marked as authentic.
In Sura Hajj 22:52-53, Muhammad confessed his crime of uttering Satanic verses.
Mohammad alleged that all prophets were tempted by Satan who inspire them with demonic verses, as if they were actually revealed by God.
But Sura 22:52-53 is itself a Satanic verse, as it accuses all prophets of God to have been inspired by Satan, whereas there is no proof that any of the Biblical prophets were ever inspired by Satan.
So Koran & Sira both confirm Mohammad overpowered by the Devil.
The Sura says that Satan has tried with all prophets to ater the revelations they received, yes. And how is that a crime? mind telling me? Satan didn't ask the prophet for permission he caused him to utter those verses- that is the way Satan operates. And perhaps you have no proof of that happening with other prophets in the bible, but you have also no proof that it didn't. (cont.)
And if you want to argue that the prophet was "overpowered" by the devil then you're essentially agreeing that the prophets true revelations were from God. IF the devil (like Christians claim) was the one revealing the Quran to Muhammad, and not God, then what is the devil doing trying to get him to say something else? The only reason why Satan would try to influence what the prophet said, would be that the prophet was preaching the message of the one true God. Otherwise, why would Satan bother?
And it's amazing that you're still copy/pasting to the last letter from Anti-Islam sites, instead of looking up those references you're giving yourself to check their authenticity and that the site (which obviously has an agenda against Islam) didn't mutilate the Hadith or reference. Sites like the one you quoted from are not credible sources for Islamic references, if you want to quote a hadith, I'd expect you to at least look it up yourself from a credible Muslims site.
When I'm trying to debate with a Christian regarding theology and I want to quote something from the bible I actually go to a Christian site, I don't go to Islamic sites attacking Christianity. It's ok to get the basic jest of what you want to say from any source, but before you come here and argue it, make sure that sire doesn't screw you over with misquotations and fabrications. Check my thread with throbleeds below for a good example.
So know (O Muhammad) that there is no God save Allah, and ask forgiveness for thy sin and for believing men and believing women. Allah knoweth (both) your place of turmoil and your place of rest. S. 47:19
What was the Sin of Mohammad for which Allah is asking him to seek forgiveness???
The way of the Muslims is to always ask forgiveness, the prophet was our example, it has no reflection on whether the person had something to ask for forgiveness for or not. In Islam, we ask for forgiveness for our sins in general, whether we know what they are or not.
Like most Muslims I have debated you seem to be good at the logical fallacy of 'Ad Hominem'.
Whenever you question my research, source of my info, my motives etc., I feel bemused for this shows a sign of one's inability to deal with the issue and in desperation attacking him personally.
Sura 22:52 doesn't say try otherwise what is Allah claiming to remove. The fact that Satan was able to put words in his mouth proves him overppowering Mohammad.
Besides, prophets are safeguarded by god from committing major sins, but they human still and they make mistakes. In Islam, frowning in the face of your human brother is a sin. Who hasn't done than EVER in his life. So the prophet had no major sins, but as he was not divine, he did make mistakes. Didn't Jesus get angry? didn't he
Takiyya is one of televangelists biggest lies against Islam. In main stream Islam Taqiyya simply means that God won't punish you if you had to hide the fact that you're a Muslim in a community hostile to Islam to avoid persecution and physical torture. That broader concept of Taqiyya allowing lying is a Shiite invention. And it's one of the reasons why many mainstream Musims consider Shiites to be outside of the fold of Islam, so please be careful when propagating such blatant misconceptions.
If you see my discussion before with another Christian below, you'll see why I attack the source of your information, he also was copy/pasting from an anti-Islamic site, he quoted a hadith that was supposed to prove that Allah was a Pagan God, but the hadith he quoted was missing two sentences that actually proved that God was not a Pagan God, and that there were many monotheists called Hanifs, who believed in God as the one true God. Do you understand now why the source is important?
psychlopes1976!Your anwser is missing 4 KEYS that allah was a monotheist's deity and that Hanifs believed in allah & they indeed were as described by islamic sources-Having,Hanifs,Christians & Jews of people of different religon and this some how proves mohammad was monotheist. You would&could only contradict your own sources.Start the circus as there so many other sources :) I am more interesred in your Rasul peeing the pants LOL!
So what I'm hearing from you is "blah blah blah" but no actual response you to fabricating that Hadith. So, go play with yourself. You've been proven a liar.
Besides, attacking the sources of your information is not "Ad Hominem". If I was attacking you in person, which I haven't, that would indeed be the case. Questioning the sources of your information is a completely valid argument. If anything it is essential to debate - besides all I asked you was to check your hadiths and Quranic verses in credible Islamic sites. That is only fair. Finally, I didn't only question the source, I actually responded to your claim, did I not?
throbleeds was offensive and used foul language, if I was trying to use the Ad Hominem technique, I would have called him out on that and attacked his obviously flawed character, but instead by showing him that his sources were feeding him lies about ISlam, and fabricating/mutilating hadiths, I was able to "seeminly at least" shut him up. I'm still waiting for him to explain his misquotation of the hadith he cited.
PakMujahid786 - you seem like a nice guy, so I hope we can continue in this civil manner of debate without you turning verbally abusive like most Christians I debate with (admittedly, some Muslims do the same). And please, go read more about Taqiyya in Islam from credible Islamic sources, that concept is not from Islam, we are not allowed to lie to advance the cause of Islam.
Still you haven't answered my question, I answered all yours. Why would Satan be interested in "overpowering" the prophet and getting to say something other than what was revealed to him if that revelation wasn't from God? Satan is evil by nature, if the Quran was evil and not from God, and the prophet was just a lunatic or an evil man, then why would the devil want to change what he was doing? Answer this question please. And where exactly am I lying in offering a logical question?
psychlopes1976!allah=satan was playing a duplicate role here - basically as allah he was playing wolf in sheeps clothing-when he went down the obvious route by making Mo utter satanic verses-it not only exposed Mo as a false prophet it also exposed allah's true nature-he allah=satan wanted to keep the deceptive nature for luring innocent &arabs.
"as it accuses all prophets of God to have been inspired by Satan" No , it claims that Satan tried to influence the prophets. It says nothing about the prophets actually preaching what Satan was trying to sneak in. Even the verse that Satan made the prophet utter was removed, and Muslims were warned that it was Satan's attempt to disrupt the Quran. Which he failed at.
psychlopes1976!good diversion!anyways Boutras and Robert morey have not been refuted yet.:) I hope that you would be using the refutation in future. We'll whether you are lying or authenticated islamic sources & early scholars are lying
LOOOOOOOOL, youTube alone is filled with refutations of both, and there are thousands of articles on the net to refute them. I just gave you a taste of Boutrus's lies in my previous comment.
psychlopes1976!so arabs knew allah before the advent of islam. Allah as a general name is referred to God or the God like Al-kitab means the kitab.FILTHY MUSLIM RUN-I have just debunked u & ur allah :)
"I have just debunked u & ur allah :) " LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL Debunked me? because you copy/pastes stock accusations manufactured by the likes of you that have been refuted a million times? Yeah Right! And that is really rich coming from a Christian. Man your theology and religion has more holes than a Swiss cheese
psychlopes1976!Well where were we- so we established the fact that Your big G Allah was a pagan God. And you tried to deceive like your allah into believing that mohammad & his family were hanif & not pagan- which I rebutted unless you think islamic source lie.:)
A taste of one of Boutrus's lies. He cited an interview done with a Muslim scholar. Boutrus said, "look, I'm not saying this, their scholar is saying this, there are 50,000 converts to Christianity in Saudi Arabia" and he even put a link to the video. But when someone who knows Arabic goes to the video he finds out the scholar said there were 50,000 Christian MISSIONARIES in KSA" and he was even quoting a Christian source. Boutrus is not to blame though, you're the sheep who believes his lies.
Yes his father's name was abdulla, and he wasn't a pagan, he followed a the sect of "Hanifs". And they were monolithic who believed in one God, the God of Abraham, but they were not Jews or Christians. Look them up, maybe you'll learn something or too. You think you're "all that" :) You think you're educated about Islam because you've read a few hate sites? LOL. You know NOTHING.
psychlopes1976 !You are as dumb as your rasul! so think he was observing & has family were observing self hanifs religions.His Father Died a pagan so did his mother Amina,Haleema and Abu Talib....I like you flare. Now that you alot lets learn islam??:)
"His Father Died a pagan so did his mother Amina,Haleema and Abu Talib" Yes, his uncle died a pagan, his father didn't. Go to Wikipedia and search for Hanifs. Otherwise provide your proof :)
There wasn't a stone for "Allah" in the Kabaa. And the Haj was not pagan, those Arabs were decedents of Ishmael, and they used to follow the religion of Abraham, and worship "Allah" the God of Abraham, that is how they came to know God, but then they went astray.
psychlopes1976!Nice try!Did I talk about a stone?:) Al-illah=the god like Al-kitab=the book was know to arabs before islam to arabs who had relations with allat & aluzza and manat as reflected in Sura 53:19-23. Is quran lying?:) we will discuss Hubal..don't worry?:)
What is idol worshiping my friend? that is what the pagans of Arabia were. And for Allah to fit into your claim, he would have to have had an idol being worshiped. I told you that the Pagans knew God but associated partners with him (this is why they were called mushrikeen - meaning people who associate partners/idols with God). Now regarding verses 53:19-23, you were kind enough to include the number of the verse that actually refutes you... allow me to illustrate... (cont.)
psychlopes1976!I thought you would do a better job after so much screamin but alas!Ismael was an israeli not an Arab.Moreover, Mohammad was not of Ismael-Prove it!
Haj was a pagan ritual...let us start are debate from here.:) Don't run.!
I didn't claim Ishmael was an Arab, I said Arabs were descendants of Ishmael, if you can't see the difference!! well, I rest my case. Mohammad was not of Ismael, I can give you the full Genealogy of Muhammad tracing him back to Ishmael, but I'm sure that isn't proof for you. I guess you need DNA evidence or something. I'm sure you can give me DNA proof then that Jesus was a descendant of David? through Joseph no less. LOL
Lets see if I can remember some interesting things from the bible. Oh yes, God wrestled one of his creatures (Israel) and he lost, God ordered pregnant women to be slashed open and babies smashed against rocks, the daughters of one of the prophets of the God of the Bible had sex with him (but only they got him drunk out of his wits), your God's ancestor was a bastard who was the product of incest one-night-stand... need I go on? If your house is made of glass, better not through rocks at people.
psychlopes1976!thats all you can come up against bible and try to find justification of you pedophile, rapist and murder rasul...well I'll give you more examples i.e.even today kids/people die in floods,earthquaks...don't worry we will discuss your pervert rasul more fully.
"don't worry we will discuss your pervert rasul more fully. " It amazes me how Christians can still claim to be messengers of the religion of love and whatnot, and yet every Christian I meet has the same foul mouth and hearts full of hatred. Good for you! I'm sure you've converted a lot of Muslims with your demonstration of what a true Christian behaves like!!!
"s specific name Allah..." Shows you've never even read the Quran or history for that matter. Allah wasn't a pagan God, your Mr. Robert Morey sure had you fooled. The Pagans new GOD and they associated partners with him, like the Christians do now, they said God had daughters. YAAAAWN, its that's what I'm supposed to be afraid of? your level of ignorance?
psychlopes1976!which partners are you talking about Is JESUS, MARRY and GOD...What a fool your rasul was???So caps define your allah-did your arab speaking allah used caps while explaining himself...LOL
Next Christian whos Posts, PLEASE TELL ME WHO THESE FOUR MEN are ...
And give me their surname!!!!
Btw, if you didnt kno, I believe Mark was a bounty Hunter ... who worked with the Romans to persecute Christians, and take them back to Rome to be Hung ...
And on the road to Domascus, he had a vision ::::
Its like saying, Hitler went to Berlin and had a vision that he would be the leader of the Jews... You think the Jews would believe him?!
Let me ask you something, because this is why I love my religion. Do you believe a Human forgives sin? Like a Pastor or those confession boxes? Islam is the only religion which promises than you will be accountable for your sins, and if you do wrong, then you will be judged. I could put on a fake smile, and be a nice person outside, but how you know Im not a murderer, or a rapist, or do bad deeds? Only God knows, therefore thats the punishment. I dont want a religion which puts on a fake smile.
You are absolutely right, only God can forgive sins, which proves that Jesus is God as he forgave sins, i.e. Mark 2:1-12; Luke 24:47; Acts 6:31; Col. 3:13.
I also agree that people will be punished for their sins, especially if there is no atonement for their sins. Koran declares prophet Mohammad a sinner in Sura 40:55, 47:19, 48:2, 94:13; whereas declares Jesus without sin in Sura 19:19.
So Mohammad qualifies hell according to your standard!!! I wish he had his sins forgiven by Christ)-:
No, my friend your wrong about the Qu'ran. The Qur'an says, no innocent should be held accountable for another mans sin (Ruling the idea that Christianity forgiving sin through the Blood of Christ) Because it's a barbaric Act. Every Man is accountable for their sins, and God created Humans TO SIN, so one of Gods attributes can be persued (Merciful).
You my friend are quoting me chapters which isn't said by Jesus, but is said by people writing 60yrs after his death. 110 Christains Convert ....
to Islam, daily in UK. You should ask yourself why. Jesus is mentioned in the Qur'an more times than Mohammed. Did you know that? The Qur'an has no human taint or changed since the day it was revealed. My friend, I just hope than you open your heart and realise that. What your worshipping is so unguided. I was watching a documentary about a man who is classed as 'reborn' Christian, he has done some horrible acts and he went to church and the pastor goes "Repent and you shall be forgiven" No way!
If God judges all of us according to our sins then even Mohammad would surely be in Hell fire due to his sins as reffered to in Sura 40:55, 47:19, 48:2 & 94:1-3.
Only Jesus will be spared from Hell fire as he is never reffered to as a sinner, though reffered to Koran as Holy in Sura 19:19.
My friend, In Islam, God is merciful. We also believe that you attone for your sin, but it is under gods mercy which decides your fate. NOT! Attone then Jesus baring your sin.. Thats a ridiculous theory that you commit a Crime and Attone, and now Jesus is liable ('_') It also says in the day of judgement that Jesus will be brought before God and be asked if he told these people (you lot) if you was God, and he will say "NO! Im in no position to say that My Lord." ....
jesus is a man and he will not pay for your sins but you can get happy but you will go to hell if you do not do good and rely on your good actions not somone paid for it this illogical... only can get this through a true religion.... examine the bible and the quran then judge for yourself. i hope you that allah will open up your mind and heart.
you are a desperate loser who just lie. be a shame to lie without checking out the source.... you think lying and flowing your vain desire will get to heaven. oh i just remember your little blind some one paid for you sins.
sadiq5519!The best muslims have to offer is a pedophile, a rapist and a murderer mohammad as their prophet and a confused god who kept abrogating verses.
Now please tell us:
*What is the specific name of your allah & who is he? as allah in arabic means 'the god or god'
"*What is the specific name of your allah & who is he? as allah in arabic means 'the god or god'" No, actually Allah means God, in Arabic "Ilah" means god. See the difference?
"mohammad as their prophet and a confused god who kept abrogating verses." Its really hypocritical of you to talk about Abrogation when Christianity is based on one BIG abrogation. According to you Paul came and arrogated the entire Judaic LAW. So what are you talking about?
When you have enough brains to come back and refute what I just said instead of resorting to insult because you have no valid argument to respond with, then I might grace you with the knowledge of the one true God and his honorable prophet :) Until then, you can use your lame tactics of sarcasm and insults.all you want. You're just demonstrating the kind of feeble minded sheep you are. :D
"It is understandable that you are running away" Running away from what exactly? arguing with a puny ignorant person like yourself? I looked at your channel to see your sources, an lo and behold, there was a Coptic priest who has been refuted and exposed for lying only a million times, and nothing subtle either, the kind of lies that would make you go "How could he think he could get away with such a big obvious lie"
"illogically accuse men of god" Like who? Zakaria Boutrus, the man lied his ass off about Islam. What men of God??? These are only your vain desires my friend. And it is you who came insulting and huffing & buffing talking like a raving lunatic, that only shows how much low your confidence is in your claims and in yourself.
It wasn't mark it was Paul who had the vision on his way to Domascus. And what great vision he must have had to turn from persecuting Christians to spreading Christianity.
4 Men, who wrote chapters in the Bible about Jesus ... But none of them, WALKED, TALKED, ATE with the man they are writing about, Jesus. or were they WALKERS or TALKERS to the deciples of Jesus. Earliest writing 60years after Jesus Death ....
Please do some research before quoting versus about these men!
They WRITE in 3rd part which makes it worse...
ACCORDING TO ... (POLCIE WONT EVEN ACCEPT THAT, why do Humans accept it?) ???
Ur prophet Mohammad hasn't said anything that wasn't said thousands of years before him which is recorded in the bible. So why should we believe in something that is being repeated or rewritten?
Since the children have flesh and blood, he (Jesus) too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death-- that is, the devil-- and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their FEAR OF DEATH. Hebrews 2:14-15
He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him. John 3:36
Savation is through what Jesus the only begotten Son of God did on the cross for us.
There is no savation in Allah the devil, his hate and killing.
Islam is watching for the anti-christ, just compare the states the bible and qu'ran say.
Juses was with his Father in heaven before we were created and was involved in creation.
ETWFJ 8 months ago in playlist Educational
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IslamIsTheTruth99 1 year ago
and since you so gladly blast the bible ,like in this comment: Christianity is based on one BIG abrogation. According to you Paul came and arrogated the entire Judaic LAW, then maybe you expalin what you mean by that ? was Paul talking to jews or pagans?
1992rmaw 2 years ago
1992rmaw!Brilliant! you have absolutely crushed Psychlopes1976 and Islam.
throbleeds 2 years ago
psychlopes oyu were kind ot snub all hadiths outside of bukhari and muslim as weak and probably unauthenticated. that is a bold statement . so would you allege any reasons why tabari's hadiths ,for example, on the satanic verse were weak or unauthenticated?
1992rmaw 2 years ago
psychlopes, aren't you just funny? you don't know what reference to tabari am i making? well it was you who argued that the hadiths refering the satanic verses were spurious !!!! and , now do careto know, these hadiths are also contained i tabari. so tell me, how come you don't see any reference to tabari in your comments but you do claim his hadiths are fake.?
1992rmaw 2 years ago
Again, you need to educate yourself about the discipline of Hadith collection. Your comments show how little you know about how things work in Islam. As for Taqiyya, I'm a Sunni, Taqiyya is a Shiite invention. LOL. It's like me trying to debate Christianity with you by quoting the book of Mormons. It's amazing how you think you know Islam, when everything that you say just proves more and more how little you know.
psychlopes1976 2 years ago
The reason why Quran is not divine, is that, it contains many defects, contradictions, wrong morals and incorrect science, and on top of it, all this has been copied from other sources.
Quran contains a sprinking of 'scientific' statements, which tried to impress the illiterate reader 1400 years ago. That was the era in which the Sun and the Moon were thought to go around the Earth.
jeesuschrist1 2 years ago
Each one of those allegations (Which can easily be refuted in the case of the Quran) can be found in the bible. So what are getting at?
psychlopes1976 2 years ago
psychlopes,.how long will i have to wait for you to give us references to scholars' treatises refuting the hadiths on the satanic verses contained in tabari? i begin to suspect you have nothing on tabari who you said had tainted infomation simply because you couldn't think of anything better, are you just another muslim bigmouth?
1992rmaw 2 years ago
And I thought you were a bit more intellect that to assume superiority of argument, just because your opponent is taking a bit more time than usual to reply. I don't know about you, but my life doesn't revolve around youTube. And I have some more pressing matters to tend to in my daily life, when I'm done with those I'll respond to your questions.
psychlopes1976 2 years ago
Care to point out exactly what tabari reference you're talking about, I don't see a reference to tabari in my comments below, but perhaps I quoted something from memory that was actually from Tabari, so refresh me memory, so that I could answer.
psychlopes1976 2 years ago
psychlopes1976!Where are you!it was just a trailer the film is still remaining.
I have to talk to you about you pagan allah and how he is the best deceiver and of course about your pedophile, rapist & murderer prophet and his pagan heritage.
How eloquent and comprehensive 1992rmaw was - The Royal priest of the True God!
I enjoyed every bit of it. You were to stay but guess truth about islam hurts so leave the satanic islam.:)
throbleeds 2 years ago
you are all insane ^^ there is no god, this discussion is like a batman nerd and a superman nerd who are discussing over who is the cooler superhero xD
ZeroToOneee 2 years ago
psychlopes,since you insist on the importance of relaible sources when you refute Throbleeds arguments, may i then reverse your argument against you and ask for the same? you said what Throbleed quite rightly wrote about the satanic verse is of little importance as the hadiths relating that story were untrustworthy and their isnad contains unreliable people, so now, please maybe you should supply us with information on your sources that claim the story related by tabari is unreliable?
1992rmaw 2 years ago 2
psychlopes- you said : why would satan be interested in overpowering hte prophet if that revelation wasn't from God? it means you don't see any reason for satan to be interested in non prophets ! you imply that satan's only interest is to distort God's message. poor chap , maybe that wasn't what you meant but that is what came out in text
1992rmaw 2 years ago 2
psychlopes , you are so far out ! so you really think that i copypasted my refutal of your question about satan and Muhammad? are you so full of yourself to think that there are whole websites dedicated to the sole purpose of disproving your contingent inconsequential offhand youtube comments ? either it is megalomania or you just blather out without giving much thought to it
1992rmaw 2 years ago 2
psychlopes ,what a nice start- i have read your comments here and noticed that you were always so eager to swear that you were far from ad hominem arguments. and now, my dear muslim, what a climbdown -you start discussion with me with remarks on my low intelligence !
1992rmaw 2 years ago
psychlopes1976! What a waste of time!filthy muslim!
Next time you should bring ZAKIR NAIK or SHABIR ALLY for support ...it seems you don't have the backbone to defend islam which is understandable...:)
throbleeds 2 years ago
You got me where you like! LOL. Youre again demonstrating your ignorance in the science of Hadith compilation. When I tell you that Ibn Ishaqs hadiths are not all Sahih that has no bearing on the character of Ibn Ishaq, it only means that the chain of narrators he accepted sometimes included people who were not entirely reliable, and sometimes people known for lying sometimes.
psychlopes1976 2 years ago
If anything that is a sign of his integrity, since he always states the chain of narrators note how the hadiths always start with something like (on the authority of this guy who had heard it from that guy etc). You can only wish you had this sort of integrity in your sources for your bible - LOL. If he was a dishonest person he would have sugar quoted possibly weak hadiths that could harm Islam.
psychlopes1976 2 years ago
Hadith collection is a science that has strict regulations for what would be considered Sahih authentic based on the elaborate study of the characters of the narrators to establish their reliability and honesty, and the number of people who narrated the same hadith. Since you asked, Bukhari and Muslim and the two scholars who accepted nothing from anybody who wasnt 100% reliable. So those are the two sources that most Sunni Muslims take to be the ultimate source for Authentics hadiths.
psychlopes1976 2 years ago
"psychlopes1976! What a waste of time!filthy muslim!" Oh, you really humbled me with your kind words, true Christians like youself never fail to show me the true nature of their loving religion. Get a life! You couldn't come up with any real arguments, you you resorted to petty insults!
psychlopes1976 2 years ago
psychlopes1976!I knew you would be impressed by your mohammad's sunna of abusing :)
throbleeds 2 years ago
psychlopes - your argument boils down to this - if satan did try to temper with the quran ,it is the proof of the divine inspiration imparted to Muhammad as satan wouldn't have had any reasons to whisper to Muhammad if the quran wasn't from God, so satan is around only to misguide prophets? are common people , poor souls, beneath his dignity to lead astray?if you think that satan would be only interested in prophets,you must surely believe satan hasnt acted in this world for 1300 years?
1992rmaw 2 years ago
1992rmaw! Brilliant!
throbleeds 2 years ago
1992rmaw - So that is what you got from what I said? I'm sorry your intellect couldn't grasp what I said then, I'll make it simpler to you, What I said does not mean Satan is only interested in prophets, and during the past 1300 years he was busy creating people like you :) If you can't understand simple logic, don't try to respond, you're only making a fool our of yourself. Read my comment again, over and over, I'm sure in the end it will dawn on you.
psychlopes1976 2 years ago
psychlopes you have bothered to reiterate one question so many times that it would great pity if you didn't stoop to answer it -namely you asked: why would satan be interested in overpowering the prophet and getting him ot say sth other than what revealed to him if that revalation wasn't from God?
1992rmaw 2 years ago
where is the psychlopes? has he emptied his grabbag of trite half- baked islamic platitudes?by the way ,is it permissable for a muslim to be smitten with pagan ancient greek mythology?that is anathema to all narrow-minded mullahs!
1992rmaw 2 years ago
"where is the psychlopes?" The psychlopes didn't know that someone was responding to his comments because that person wasn't smart enough to reply to "the psychlopes" individual comments, and hence, the "Psychlopes" didn't get notified by email. Don't flatter yourself.
psychlopes1976 2 years ago
"where is the psychlopes?:" It's lovely how being away for a day or two got you so ecstatic that you thought I was beaten by your non-existent logic based on copy-paste argument, which obviously means you have no opinion of your own except for what people tell you to believe. Very sad indeed.
psychlopes1976 2 years ago
25) psychlopes1976! more later! ENJOY...and yes read carefully. :)
throbleeds 2 years ago
24)Despite the fact that there is not a single shred of evidence to support that Hagar was in Mecca or that Zam-zam was the well that sprung forth miraculously by the angel, Ali admits that the hills of Safa and Marwa originally housed two pagan idols. The Hadith relates that the Muslims were hesitant to run between these two hills due to their connection with Arab pagan practices:
throbleeds 2 years ago
Bottom line is you have no evidence that those pilgrimage rituals were purely pagan and had no origins from true monotheism. What you provided so far proves nothing more than they were rituals that were practiced by the pagans, but they don't have any weight in terms of proving your point saying that they originated or invented by the pagans. Nice try though. Better luck next time!
psychlopes1976 2 years ago
23)The lesson is that the most sacred things may be turned to the basest uses; that we are not therefore necessarily to ban a thing misused; that if our intentions and life are pure, God will recognize them even if the world cast stones at us because of some evil associations which they join with what we do, or with the people we associate with, or with the places which claim our reverence." (Ali, The Holy Qur'an: Translation and Commentary [Lahore, 1934 &1937],p. 62,fn.160;CAPS emphasis MINE)
throbleeds 2 years ago
22)...AS A MATTER OF FACT THEY SHOULD HAVE KNOWN THAT THE KA'BA (THE HOUSE OF GOD) HAD BEEN ITSELF DEFILED WITH IDOLS, and was sanctified again by the purity of Muhammad's life and teaching...
throbleeds 2 years ago
21)...UNFORTUNATELY, THE PAGAN ARABS HAD PLACED A MALE AND FEMALE IDOL HERE, AND THEIR GROSS SUPERSTITIOUS RITES CAUSED OFFENSE TO THE EARLY MUSLIMS. They felt some hesitation in going round these places during the Pilgrimage...
throbleeds 2 years ago
20)The late Quranic translator, Yusuf Ali, stated:
"The virtue of patient perseverance in faith leads to the mention of two symbolic monuments of that virtue. These are two little hills of Safa and Marwa, now absorbed in the city of Mecca and close to the well of Zam-zam. Here, according to tradition, the lady Hajar, the mother of the infant Isma'il, prayed for water in the parched desert, and in her eager quest round these hills, she found her prayer answered and saw the Zam-zam spring...
throbleeds 2 years ago
19)The Quran itself commanded Muslims to continue practicing the pagan rites as part of the religion:
Behold! Safa and Marwa are among the Symbols of Allah. So if those who visit the House in the Season or at other times, should compass them round, it is no sin in them. And if any one obeyeth his own impulse to good, — be sure that Allah is He Who recogniseth and knoweth. Surah al-Baqarah 2:158
throbleeds 2 years ago
Nice job copy/pasting from answering Islam and other similar cheesy websites BTW. I'll recommend you to any business contact I know who has a need for a data entry drone like yourself.
psychlopes1976 2 years ago
very poor comment !!
jeesuschrist1 2 years ago
18)Despite the Jews allegedly claiming that Abraham had built the Kaba, they still refused to partake of performing a pilgrimage to it due to all the idols contained therein which defiled it. And yet Muhammad, who is supposed to be God's final prophet, has no hesitation in running around a structure littered with abominable objects detested by the true God!
throbleeds 2 years ago 2
17)The king asked why they too should not do likewise. They replied that it was indeed the temple of their father Abraham, but the idols which the inhabitants had set up round it, and the blood which they shed there, presented an insuperable obstacle. They are unclean polytheists, said they - or words to that effect. (Guillaume, The Life of Muhammad, pp. 8-9)
throbleeds 2 years ago
16)... They [the rabbis] told that the sole object of the tribe was to destroy him and his army. We know of no other temple in the land which God has chosen for Himself, said they, and if you do what they suggest you and all your men will perish. The king asked them what he should do when he got there, and they told him to do what the people of Mecca did: circumambulate the temple, to venerate and honour it, to shave his head, and to behave with all humility until he had left its precincts.
throbleeds 2 years ago
15)Some Muslims tried to read back into pre-Islamic history the belief that Abraham and Ishmael built the Kaba. But in so doing, they only managed to do further damage to Muhammad's prophetic claims. For example, the oldest biographer of Muhammad's life, Ibn Ishaq, mentioned an event which supposedly took place before Muhammad's time where certain Jewish rabbis are said to have told a king that the Kaba was built by Abraham. Yet, Ishaq, by mentioning this story, actually incriminates Muhammad:
throbleeds 2 years ago
14)We must keep in mind that at this time in Muhammad's life, there was no revelation alleging that Abraham and Ishmael originally built the Kaba. That came later in his life. As far as Muhammad was concerned, the Kaba was nothing more than a pagan shrine erected in honor of pagan deities.
throbleeds 2 years ago 2
13)"And when the apostle of God had finished his period of seclusion and returned (to Mecca), in the first place he performed the circumambulation of the Ka'ba, as was his wont. While he was doing it, Waraqa met him and said, O son of my brother, tell me what thou hast seen and heard.'" (Sirat Rasulullah, trans. Alfred Guillaume, The Life of Muhammad [Oxford University Press, Karachi], p. 107; bold emphasis ours)
throbleeds 2 years ago
psychlopes1976!
12)In fact, Muhammad's indulgence in idolatrous practices continued right into his alleged prophetic calling. For instance, the first Muslim biographer Ibn Ishaq recorded the following incident that occurred after Muhammads supposed encounter with Gabriel:
throbleeds 2 years ago
psychlopes1976!what about Ibn Ishaq?
Today is your lucky day! come tomorrow I'll teach you more and yes you will get Sahih hadith:)
throbleeds 2 years ago
Not everything Ibn Ishaq has is Sahih. If you can't find it in the Sahih Muslim or Sahih Bukhari. It's probably weak or even fabricated. And we have the right narration of the hadith in the Bukhari, and one of those narrations clearly says that the prophet "refused" to eat from the meal. So you have nothing.
psychlopes1976 2 years ago
psychlopes1976! I actually feel sorry for you :) on the other hand I am enjoying your CIRCUS.did't I tell you earlier that you would/could only refute your islam sources.Denying sources won't save you or your islam :)
It is your word against theirs! let us see who is lying..LOL
According 2 you IBN ISHAQ is dishonest!Al Kalbi is known for collecting very weak and fabricated Hadiths...TELL ME WHO ISN"T...why don't you invent your own islam..LOL I have you were I like....Smooch!
throbleeds 2 years ago
12)They are worthless: they can neither harm nor profit anyone," or words to that effect.' The apostle added, 'After that I never knowingly stroked one of their idols nor did I sacrifice to them until God honoured me with his apostleship. (Guillaume, Islam [Penguin USA; ISBN: 0140203117], pp. 26-27; bold and capital emphasis mine; bold emphasis ours)
throbleeds 2 years ago
YAAAWN, you bore me. No authentic hadiths yet. I'm very amused, but I need to get back to work. I'm done with you. Not only are you copt/pasting, but you're doing a bad job at even selecting what to copy. You wouldn't be able to refute a Muslim 5th grader. Get a life!
psychlopes1976 2 years ago
11)He replied, "Surely it is part of those sacrifices of theirs which they offer to their idols?" When I said that it was, he said, "Nephew mine, if you were to ask the daughters of 'Abd al-Muttalib they would tell you that I never eat of these sacrifices, and I have no desire to do so." Then he upbraided me for idolatry and spoke disparagingly of those who worship idols and sacrifice to them, and said,
throbleeds 2 years ago
10)Quraysh had made a public example of him for abandoning his religion, so that he went out from their midst. I sat down with him. I had a bag containing meat which WE HAD SACRIFICED TO OUR IDOLS — Zayd b. Haritha was carrying it — and I offered it to Zayd b. 'Amir — I was but a lad at the time — and I said, "Eat some of this food, my uncle.
throbleeds 2 years ago
9)Alfred Guillaume gives a tradition recorded by the first Muslim biographer, Ibn Ishaq, who wrote:
I was told that the apostle of Allah said, as he was talking about Zayd son of 'Amr son of Nufayl, 'He was the first to upbraid me for idolatry and forbade me to worship idols. I had come from al-Ta'if along with Zayd son of Haritha when we passed Zayd son of 'Amr who was in the highland of Mecca.
throbleeds 2 years ago
8)In fact, noted historian of the Arab peoples Philip K. Hitti accepts the veracity of al-Kalbi's report:
Al-'Uzza (the most mighty,Venus,the morning star) had her cult in Nakhlah east of Makkah. According to al-Kalbi,hers was the most venerated idol among the Quraysh, &Muhammad as a young man offered her a sacrifice. (Hitti,History of the Arabs from the Earliest Times to the Present, revised tenth edition,new preface by Walid Khalidi [Palgrave Macmillan,2002;ISBN:0-333-63142-0 paperback],p.99)
throbleeds 2 years ago
P.S. Al Kalbi is known for collecting very weak and fabricated Hadiths. If you want to prove anything to a Muslim, you'd do well by not citing him as your resource, or else your credibility would go down to zero.
psychlopes1976 2 years ago
"Philip K. Hitti accepts the veracity of al-Kalbi's " Oh great, a western "historian" I'm SURE he's got no agenda. LOL. You're an idiot. First you falsify a hadith and then you bring hadiths from sources that are either weak or completely bear no weight with Muslims, and you think you're refuting me? LOOOOL, It's like me pulling out the gospel of Barnabas to refute the bible. Get real!!! LOL, what a joke you are.
psychlopes1976 2 years ago
psychlopes1976!
7)Ibn al-Kalbi also confirms that Muhammad offered up an ewe to al-Uzza, "in accordance with the religion of the people." (Ibid., p. 127)
throbleeds 2 years ago
Like I said, not an authentic Muslim resource. Do you even know what a "Sahih" hadith means? Go read a bit and educate yourself.
psychlopes1976 2 years ago
psychlopes1976!!
6)"He said, "To one of the idols." Zayd then said: "I am not the one to eat anything slaughtered for a divinity other than God." (Al-Kharqushi, Sharaf al-Mustafa, cited in F. E. Peters, Muhammad and the Religion of Islam [State University of New York Press (SUNY), Albany 1994], pp. 126-127)
This is called INSTANT refutation
You are indeed a follower of pedophile :)
throbleeds 2 years ago
psychlopes1976!Stop whimpering!I have made you pee wait till you see your rasul peeing in pants FROM CRYING!...shouting and dodging won't safe you and certainly it is not refutation...by the way I play with your AYESHA ;) now listen to what I have to say...you follower of a pedophile:)
throbleeds 2 years ago
5)He said, "This (happened) without my being the cause of their hatred; but I found them associating divinities with God and I was reluctant to do the same. I wanted (to worship God according to) the religion of Abraham..." The Prophet said, "Would you like some food?" He said, "Yes." Then the Prophet put before him the (meat of the ewe). He (that is, Zayd ibn Amr) said: "What did you sacrifice to, O Muhammad?"
throbleeds 2 years ago
4)The Prophet slaughtered an ewe for one of the idols (nusub min al-ansab); then he roasted it and carried it with him. Then Zayd ibn Amr ibn Nufayl met us in the upper part of the valley; it was one of the hot days of Mecca. When we met we greeted each other with the greeting of the Age of barbarism, in'am sabahan. The Prophet said: "Why do I see you, O son of Amr, hated by your people?
throbleeds 2 years ago
"he Prophet slaughtered an ewe for one of the idols"
I notice you're not giving your reference for that new version of the Hadith you're quoting, why I wonder? could it be because its not from Authentic Islamic sources?
psychlopes1976 2 years ago
3)Despite the fact that the parenthetical statements — "that had been offered to him by the pagans" and "to the pagans" — are not part of the Arabic text, the point is still clear that Muhammad ate food sacrificed to idols while Zaid refused to eat it. This is brought out clearly from the following citations taken from F.E. Peters. According to a tradition reported by Zaid ibn Haritha, who was also present at the event,
throbleeds 2 years ago
Not part of the Arabic text? really? Again you have no shame, lying to an Arab .LOL, no my friend, it's there in the Arabic text. I'm not going to waste more of my time with you. LOL
psychlopes1976 2 years ago
psychlopes1976! I told you to start cirus! You have no idea what you are talking about....Lying and deceiving like your allah won't save you....You said you were here to stay...Now keep quite and listen to what I have to say...and you'll know the real meaning of refutation....LOL
throbleeds 2 years ago
"clear that Muhammad ate food sacrificed to idols " Where does it say that the prophet ate the food exactly??? Do tell!!!
psychlopes1976 2 years ago
2)Narrated 'Abdullah:Allah's Apostle said that he met Zaid bin 'Amr Nufail at a place near Baldah and this had happened before Allah's Apostle received the Divine Inspiration.Allah's Apostle presented a dish of meat(that had been offered 2him by the pagans)2 Zaid bin 'Amr, but Zaid refused to eat of it and then said (2 the pagans)"I do not eat of what Uslaughter on UR stone altars(Ansabs)nor do I eat except that on which Allah's Name has been mentioned on slaughtering."(Sahih al-Bukhari7:407)
throbleeds 2 years ago
psychlopes1976! A prominent feature of Islam is that most of its rites and practices were adopted from the pagan Arabian rituals of Muhammad's time. To hide their pagan origins, Muhammad claimed that God initially sanctioned these rites. In fact, before, during, and after his mission, Muhammad continued to perform rites that were nothing more than idolatry. For instance, a hadith of al-Bukhari records that, prior to his calling, Muhammad made sacrifices to the pagan idols:
throbleeds 2 years ago
PakMujahid786! you have really cleaned psychlopes1976! :)
throbleeds 2 years ago
Comment removed
throbleeds 2 years ago
(cont.) 53:23 (Y. Ali) These are nothing but names which ye have devised,- ye and your fathers,- for which Allah has sent down no authority (whatever). They follow nothing but conjecture and what their own souls desire!- Even though there has already come to them Guidance from their Lord! (cont.). So the verse clearly says that the pagans made up stories about God having daughters. (they associated partners with the one true God which they knew)
psychlopes1976 2 years ago
psychlopes1976!Even your prophet was a pagan..
surah 93:7 is saying that Muhammad was lost in the pagan religion of his family until Allah "graced" him with the "light" of Islam.
It seem I now have quote ful text here..No worries I am here to stay...
throbleeds 2 years ago
No worries I am here to stay too :D
psychlopes1976 2 years ago
psychlopes1976!Narrated 'Abdullah:
Allah's Apostle said that he met Zaid bin 'Amr Nufail at a place near Baldah and this had happened before Allah's Apostle received the Divine Inspiration.Allah's Apostle presented a dish of meat to Zaid bin 'Amr, but Zaid refused to eat of it &then said "I do not eat of what you slaughter on your stone altars (Ansabs) nor do I eat except that on which Allah's Name has been mentioned on slaughtering."(Sahih Al-Bukhari,Vol 7,Book 67,No 407)
throbleeds 2 years ago
You just presented me with the means to refute you once and for all, and expose you as a liar (or at least a sheep who knows only what he reads on anti-Islamic sites) by quoting this hadith, and I will come to how in a minute...
psychlopes1976 2 years ago
1- The hadith has been mutilated by whatever site you got it from 2- If anything this hadith is a proof of what I told you about the Hanifs who were monotheists living among the pagans (believing Allah was the one Triue God, and not a pagan god) as Zaid was a Hanif himself - evident by what he (actually) said
psychlopes1976 2 years ago
Narrated 'Abdullah: Allah's Apostle said that he met Zaid bin 'Amr Nufail at a place near Baldah and this had happened before Allah's Apostle received the Divine Inspiration. Allah's Apostle presented a dish of meat (that had been offered to him by the pagans) to Zaid bin 'Amr, but Zaid refused to eat of it and then said (to the pagans), "I do not eat of what you slaughter on your stonealtars (Ansabs) nor do I eat except that on which Allah's Name has been mentioned on slaughtering."
psychlopes1976 2 years ago
Care to tell me why you'd dropped the part saying that the dish was offered to the prophet by (the pagans) and the one saying that Zaid was actually addressing the pagans? You see that is a blatant lie on its own. And having exposed that I should really just rest my case and let the readers decide who the liar and the "coward" (cont.)
psychlopes1976 2 years ago
Also, just FYI , the prophet too refused the meal before offering it to Zaid, evident by another narration of the same Hadith - Volume 5, Book 58, Number 169: even adds - which says (A meal was presented to the Prophet but he refused to eat from it...)
psychlopes1976 2 years ago
So before I go any further, and waste more of my time debating with a person who is so obviously willing to lie in hi arguments. You need to explain yourself, and your blatant misquotation of the hadith, that you thought would prove your point, but ends up backing up everything that I said. Don't worry, you're not to blame, you're just the sheep, all Boutrus's arguments are based on fabrications and lies like this one. Again, thank you for proving my point.
psychlopes1976 2 years ago
I leave you now with this last thought, before I retire to sleep. Be honest with yourself, and ask, how can you trust the anti-Islam sites that you go to for information, when they obviously provide you with fabricated, mutilated, out of context, or misinterpreted verses and hadiths that Muslims believe in? I don't mind you coming to me to debate our religion and theology, but next time (after you admit your mistake) do your own research first.
psychlopes1976 2 years ago
Al-Qasim b. Al-Hasan al Husayn b. Daud Hajja Abu Mashar Muhammad b. Kab al-Qurazi and Muhammad b. Qays: The Messenger of God was sitting in a large gathering of Quraysh, wishing that day that no revelation would come to him from God which could cause them to turn away from him. Then God revealed:
By the Star when it sets, your comrade does not err, nor is he deceivedContinued
PakMujahid786 2 years ago
Notice you forgot to give you reference, please provide the hadith from which you got all this.
psychlopes1976 2 years ago
And what really amazes me was how you copy/pasted your argument exactly to the same letter from your anti-Islamic site. You didn't even bother to personalize it a bit. Nice!
psychlopes1976 2 years ago
psychlopes1976!you have yet named the islamic anti islamic site???
throbleeds 2 years ago
and the Messenger of God recited it until he came to:
Have you thought upon al-Lat and al-Uzza and Manat, the third, the other?
when Satan cast on his tongue two phrases:
These are the high-flying cranes; verily their intercession is to be desired.
So Satan did overpower Mohammad unlike any of the True Biblical prophets???
PakMujahid786 2 years ago
But anyway, how does that relate to the relationship of god to those idols? Or are you just jumping in to aid you body in arms against Islam, who was just proven to be a distorter of facts?
psychlopes1976 2 years ago
Actually in the bible, old prophets were tempted into committing sins that were in some cases heinous - how do you know those were not of the devil? The story you're citing doesn't Show Satan overpowering the prophet to do something willingly that he wouldn't otherwise do. It's just one of Satan's tricks, and you have no proof in the bible saying that Satan could not do the same for biblical prophets.
psychlopes1976 2 years ago
Ibn Ishaq's Siraat Rasul Allah:
Ibn Ishaq also reports that "Labid bin Asam . . . bewitched the apostle of God so that he could not come at his wives." Guillaume adds a note saying that, according to tradition, "the spell lasted for a year." Ibn Ishaq, p. 240.
Siraat of Mohammad proves that he was overpowered by the Devil, which makes Mohammd unique among all prophets before him!! Doesn't it ???
PakMujahid786 2 years ago
BTW Ibn Ishaq's book was a biography that didn't follow the strict regulations of Hadith collection. So, If you want to prove a point using a hadith, please cite an authentic hadith by one of the credited Muslim hadith collectors, preferably marked as authentic.
psychlopes1976 2 years ago
In Sura Hajj 22:52-53, Muhammad confessed his crime of uttering Satanic verses.
Mohammad alleged that all prophets were tempted by Satan who inspire them with demonic verses, as if they were actually revealed by God.
But Sura 22:52-53 is itself a Satanic verse, as it accuses all prophets of God to have been inspired by Satan, whereas there is no proof that any of the Biblical prophets were ever inspired by Satan.
So Koran & Sira both confirm Mohammad overpowered by the Devil.
Sad!?!?
PakMujahid786 2 years ago 2
The Sura says that Satan has tried with all prophets to ater the revelations they received, yes. And how is that a crime? mind telling me? Satan didn't ask the prophet for permission he caused him to utter those verses- that is the way Satan operates. And perhaps you have no proof of that happening with other prophets in the bible, but you have also no proof that it didn't. (cont.)
psychlopes1976 2 years ago
And if you want to argue that the prophet was "overpowered" by the devil then you're essentially agreeing that the prophets true revelations were from God. IF the devil (like Christians claim) was the one revealing the Quran to Muhammad, and not God, then what is the devil doing trying to get him to say something else? The only reason why Satan would try to influence what the prophet said, would be that the prophet was preaching the message of the one true God. Otherwise, why would Satan bother?
psychlopes1976 2 years ago
Double role Mate double role!Allah is decribed in qura as the best deceiver! (Cont.)
throbleeds 2 years ago
And it's amazing that you're still copy/pasting to the last letter from Anti-Islam sites, instead of looking up those references you're giving yourself to check their authenticity and that the site (which obviously has an agenda against Islam) didn't mutilate the Hadith or reference. Sites like the one you quoted from are not credible sources for Islamic references, if you want to quote a hadith, I'd expect you to at least look it up yourself from a credible Muslims site.
psychlopes1976 2 years ago
When I'm trying to debate with a Christian regarding theology and I want to quote something from the bible I actually go to a Christian site, I don't go to Islamic sites attacking Christianity. It's ok to get the basic jest of what you want to say from any source, but before you come here and argue it, make sure that sire doesn't screw you over with misquotations and fabrications. Check my thread with throbleeds below for a good example.
psychlopes1976 2 years ago
So know (O Muhammad) that there is no God save Allah, and ask forgiveness for thy sin and for believing men and believing women. Allah knoweth (both) your place of turmoil and your place of rest. S. 47:19
What was the Sin of Mohammad for which Allah is asking him to seek forgiveness???
PakMujahid786 2 years ago
The way of the Muslims is to always ask forgiveness, the prophet was our example, it has no reflection on whether the person had something to ask for forgiveness for or not. In Islam, we ask for forgiveness for our sins in general, whether we know what they are or not.
psychlopes1976 2 years ago
Like most Muslims I have debated you seem to be good at the logical fallacy of 'Ad Hominem'.
Whenever you question my research, source of my info, my motives etc., I feel bemused for this shows a sign of one's inability to deal with the issue and in desperation attacking him personally.
Sura 22:52 doesn't say try otherwise what is Allah claiming to remove. The fact that Satan was able to put words in his mouth proves him overppowering Mohammad.
Lets not do Takkiya(-:
PakMujahid786 2 years ago
Besides, prophets are safeguarded by god from committing major sins, but they human still and they make mistakes. In Islam, frowning in the face of your human brother is a sin. Who hasn't done than EVER in his life. So the prophet had no major sins, but as he was not divine, he did make mistakes. Didn't Jesus get angry? didn't he
psychlopes1976 2 years ago
Takiyya is one of televangelists biggest lies against Islam. In main stream Islam Taqiyya simply means that God won't punish you if you had to hide the fact that you're a Muslim in a community hostile to Islam to avoid persecution and physical torture. That broader concept of Taqiyya allowing lying is a Shiite invention. And it's one of the reasons why many mainstream Musims consider Shiites to be outside of the fold of Islam, so please be careful when propagating such blatant misconceptions.
psychlopes1976 2 years ago
If you see my discussion before with another Christian below, you'll see why I attack the source of your information, he also was copy/pasting from an anti-Islamic site, he quoted a hadith that was supposed to prove that Allah was a Pagan God, but the hadith he quoted was missing two sentences that actually proved that God was not a Pagan God, and that there were many monotheists called Hanifs, who believed in God as the one true God. Do you understand now why the source is important?
psychlopes1976 2 years ago
psychlopes1976!Your anwser is missing 4 KEYS that allah was a monotheist's deity and that Hanifs believed in allah & they indeed were as described by islamic sources-Having,Hanifs,Christians & Jews of people of different religon and this some how proves mohammad was monotheist. You would&could only contradict your own sources.Start the circus as there so many other sources :) I am more interesred in your Rasul peeing the pants LOL!
throbleeds 2 years ago
So what I'm hearing from you is "blah blah blah" but no actual response you to fabricating that Hadith. So, go play with yourself. You've been proven a liar.
psychlopes1976 2 years ago
Besides, attacking the sources of your information is not "Ad Hominem". If I was attacking you in person, which I haven't, that would indeed be the case. Questioning the sources of your information is a completely valid argument. If anything it is essential to debate - besides all I asked you was to check your hadiths and Quranic verses in credible Islamic sites. That is only fair. Finally, I didn't only question the source, I actually responded to your claim, did I not?
psychlopes1976 2 years ago
throbleeds was offensive and used foul language, if I was trying to use the Ad Hominem technique, I would have called him out on that and attacked his obviously flawed character, but instead by showing him that his sources were feeding him lies about ISlam, and fabricating/mutilating hadiths, I was able to "seeminly at least" shut him up. I'm still waiting for him to explain his misquotation of the hadith he cited.
psychlopes1976 2 years ago
PakMujahid786 - you seem like a nice guy, so I hope we can continue in this civil manner of debate without you turning verbally abusive like most Christians I debate with (admittedly, some Muslims do the same). And please, go read more about Taqiyya in Islam from credible Islamic sources, that concept is not from Islam, we are not allowed to lie to advance the cause of Islam.
psychlopes1976 2 years ago
Still you haven't answered my question, I answered all yours. Why would Satan be interested in "overpowering" the prophet and getting to say something other than what was revealed to him if that revelation wasn't from God? Satan is evil by nature, if the Quran was evil and not from God, and the prophet was just a lunatic or an evil man, then why would the devil want to change what he was doing? Answer this question please. And where exactly am I lying in offering a logical question?
psychlopes1976 2 years ago
psychlopes1976!allah=satan was playing a duplicate role here - basically as allah he was playing wolf in sheeps clothing-when he went down the obvious route by making Mo utter satanic verses-it not only exposed Mo as a false prophet it also exposed allah's true nature-he allah=satan wanted to keep the deceptive nature for luring innocent &arabs.
throbleeds 2 years ago
"as it accuses all prophets of God to have been inspired by Satan" No , it claims that Satan tried to influence the prophets. It says nothing about the prophets actually preaching what Satan was trying to sneak in. Even the verse that Satan made the prophet utter was removed, and Muslims were warned that it was Satan's attempt to disrupt the Quran. Which he failed at.
psychlopes1976 2 years ago
psychlopes1976!good diversion!anyways Boutras and Robert morey have not been refuted yet.:) I hope that you would be using the refutation in future. We'll whether you are lying or authenticated islamic sources & early scholars are lying
throbleeds 2 years ago
LOOOOOOOOL, youTube alone is filled with refutations of both, and there are thousands of articles on the net to refute them. I just gave you a taste of Boutrus's lies in my previous comment.
psychlopes1976 2 years ago
psychlopes1976!so arabs knew allah before the advent of islam. Allah as a general name is referred to God or the God like Al-kitab means the kitab.FILTHY MUSLIM RUN-I have just debunked u & ur allah :)
throbleeds 2 years ago
"I have just debunked u & ur allah :) " LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL Debunked me? because you copy/pastes stock accusations manufactured by the likes of you that have been refuted a million times? Yeah Right! And that is really rich coming from a Christian. Man your theology and religion has more holes than a Swiss cheese
psychlopes1976 2 years ago
psychlopes1976!thank you for the honor atleast I have a chese with holes.But your theology and Islam are both HOLES which I'll certainly enjoy:)
throbleeds 2 years ago
So throbleeds, who's the one cowering now? you got me pissing in my pants alright, from laughing!!!!
psychlopes1976 2 years ago
psychlopes1976!Well where were we- so we established the fact that Your big G Allah was a pagan God. And you tried to deceive like your allah into believing that mohammad & his family were hanif & not pagan- which I rebutted unless you think islamic source lie.:)
throbleeds 2 years ago
A taste of one of Boutrus's lies. He cited an interview done with a Muslim scholar. Boutrus said, "look, I'm not saying this, their scholar is saying this, there are 50,000 converts to Christianity in Saudi Arabia" and he even put a link to the video. But when someone who knows Arabic goes to the video he finds out the scholar said there were 50,000 Christian MISSIONARIES in KSA" and he was even quoting a Christian source. Boutrus is not to blame though, you're the sheep who believes his lies.
psychlopes1976 2 years ago
psychlopes1976!Mohammad's father was a pagan whose name was Abdullah meaning slave of allah.....
throbleeds 2 years ago
Yes his father's name was abdulla, and he wasn't a pagan, he followed a the sect of "Hanifs". And they were monolithic who believed in one God, the God of Abraham, but they were not Jews or Christians. Look them up, maybe you'll learn something or too. You think you're "all that" :) You think you're educated about Islam because you've read a few hate sites? LOL. You know NOTHING.
psychlopes1976 2 years ago
psychlopes1976 !You are as dumb as your rasul! so think he was observing & has family were observing self hanifs religions.His Father Died a pagan so did his mother Amina,Haleema and Abu Talib....I like you flare. Now that you alot lets learn islam??:)
throbleeds 2 years ago
"His Father Died a pagan so did his mother Amina,Haleema and Abu Talib" Yes, his uncle died a pagan, his father didn't. Go to Wikipedia and search for Hanifs. Otherwise provide your proof :)
psychlopes1976 2 years ago
psychlopes1976!Your allah resided with 356 under buddies in kaaba where arabs performed pagan ritual haj.
throbleeds 2 years ago
There wasn't a stone for "Allah" in the Kabaa. And the Haj was not pagan, those Arabs were decedents of Ishmael, and they used to follow the religion of Abraham, and worship "Allah" the God of Abraham, that is how they came to know God, but then they went astray.
psychlopes1976 2 years ago
psychlopes1976!Nice try!Did I talk about a stone?:) Al-illah=the god like Al-kitab=the book was know to arabs before islam to arabs who had relations with allat & aluzza and manat as reflected in Sura 53:19-23. Is quran lying?:) we will discuss Hubal..don't worry?:)
throbleeds 2 years ago
What is idol worshiping my friend? that is what the pagans of Arabia were. And for Allah to fit into your claim, he would have to have had an idol being worshiped. I told you that the Pagans knew God but associated partners with him (this is why they were called mushrikeen - meaning people who associate partners/idols with God). Now regarding verses 53:19-23, you were kind enough to include the number of the verse that actually refutes you... allow me to illustrate... (cont.)
psychlopes1976 2 years ago
psychlopes1976!I thought you would do a better job after so much screamin but alas!Ismael was an israeli not an Arab.Moreover, Mohammad was not of Ismael-Prove it!
Haj was a pagan ritual...let us start are debate from here.:) Don't run.!
throbleeds 2 years ago
I didn't claim Ishmael was an Arab, I said Arabs were descendants of Ishmael, if you can't see the difference!! well, I rest my case. Mohammad was not of Ismael, I can give you the full Genealogy of Muhammad tracing him back to Ishmael, but I'm sure that isn't proof for you. I guess you need DNA evidence or something. I'm sure you can give me DNA proof then that Jesus was a descendant of David? through Joseph no less. LOL
psychlopes1976 2 years ago
Lets see if I can remember some interesting things from the bible. Oh yes, God wrestled one of his creatures (Israel) and he lost, God ordered pregnant women to be slashed open and babies smashed against rocks, the daughters of one of the prophets of the God of the Bible had sex with him (but only they got him drunk out of his wits), your God's ancestor was a bastard who was the product of incest one-night-stand... need I go on? If your house is made of glass, better not through rocks at people.
psychlopes1976 2 years ago
psychlopes1976!thats all you can come up against bible and try to find justification of you pedophile, rapist and murder rasul...well I'll give you more examples i.e.even today kids/people die in floods,earthquaks...don't worry we will discuss your pervert rasul more fully.
throbleeds 2 years ago
"don't worry we will discuss your pervert rasul more fully. " It amazes me how Christians can still claim to be messengers of the religion of love and whatnot, and yet every Christian I meet has the same foul mouth and hearts full of hatred. Good for you! I'm sure you've converted a lot of Muslims with your demonstration of what a true Christian behaves like!!!
psychlopes1976 2 years ago
psychlopes1976!As specific name Allah was a pagan deity who had relations with allat,al-uzza and manat Sura 53:19-23.
throbleeds 2 years ago
"s specific name Allah..." Shows you've never even read the Quran or history for that matter. Allah wasn't a pagan God, your Mr. Robert Morey sure had you fooled. The Pagans new GOD and they associated partners with him, like the Christians do now, they said God had daughters. YAAAAWN, its that's what I'm supposed to be afraid of? your level of ignorance?
psychlopes1976 2 years ago
psychlopes1976!which partners are you talking about Is JESUS, MARRY and GOD...What a fool your rasul was???So caps define your allah-did your arab speaking allah used caps while explaining himself...LOL
throbleeds 2 years ago
Next Christian whos Posts, PLEASE TELL ME WHO THESE FOUR MEN are ...
And give me their surname!!!!
Btw, if you didnt kno, I believe Mark was a bounty Hunter ... who worked with the Romans to persecute Christians, and take them back to Rome to be Hung ...
And on the road to Domascus, he had a vision ::::
Its like saying, Hitler went to Berlin and had a vision that he would be the leader of the Jews... You think the Jews would believe him?!
HPL2007 3 years ago
Koran in Sura 19:71 says that all Muslims will go to hell, and Sura 46:9 says that even Mohammad himself wasn't sure that where he would go.
Why should people listen to anything Zakir Naik says, when his book promises only hell fire to all Muslims including Zakir Naik???
myonlyrefuge 3 years ago
Let me ask you something, because this is why I love my religion. Do you believe a Human forgives sin? Like a Pastor or those confession boxes? Islam is the only religion which promises than you will be accountable for your sins, and if you do wrong, then you will be judged. I could put on a fake smile, and be a nice person outside, but how you know Im not a murderer, or a rapist, or do bad deeds? Only God knows, therefore thats the punishment. I dont want a religion which puts on a fake smile.
HPL2007 3 years ago
You are absolutely right, only God can forgive sins, which proves that Jesus is God as he forgave sins, i.e. Mark 2:1-12; Luke 24:47; Acts 6:31; Col. 3:13.
I also agree that people will be punished for their sins, especially if there is no atonement for their sins. Koran declares prophet Mohammad a sinner in Sura 40:55, 47:19, 48:2, 94:13; whereas declares Jesus without sin in Sura 19:19.
So Mohammad qualifies hell according to your standard!!! I wish he had his sins forgiven by Christ)-:
myonlyrefuge 3 years ago
No, my friend your wrong about the Qu'ran. The Qur'an says, no innocent should be held accountable for another mans sin (Ruling the idea that Christianity forgiving sin through the Blood of Christ) Because it's a barbaric Act. Every Man is accountable for their sins, and God created Humans TO SIN, so one of Gods attributes can be persued (Merciful).
You my friend are quoting me chapters which isn't said by Jesus, but is said by people writing 60yrs after his death. 110 Christains Convert ....
HPL2007 3 years ago
to Islam, daily in UK. You should ask yourself why. Jesus is mentioned in the Qur'an more times than Mohammed. Did you know that? The Qur'an has no human taint or changed since the day it was revealed. My friend, I just hope than you open your heart and realise that. What your worshipping is so unguided. I was watching a documentary about a man who is classed as 'reborn' Christian, he has done some horrible acts and he went to church and the pastor goes "Repent and you shall be forgiven" No way!
HPL2007 3 years ago
If God judges all of us according to our sins then even Mohammad would surely be in Hell fire due to his sins as reffered to in Sura 40:55, 47:19, 48:2 & 94:1-3.
Only Jesus will be spared from Hell fire as he is never reffered to as a sinner, though reffered to Koran as Holy in Sura 19:19.
myonlyrefuge 3 years ago
My friend, In Islam, God is merciful. We also believe that you attone for your sin, but it is under gods mercy which decides your fate. NOT! Attone then Jesus baring your sin.. Thats a ridiculous theory that you commit a Crime and Attone, and now Jesus is liable ('_') It also says in the day of judgement that Jesus will be brought before God and be asked if he told these people (you lot) if you was God, and he will say "NO! Im in no position to say that My Lord." ....
HPL2007 3 years ago
So if God decides your Fate then how r u sure u will spend eternity with Him? Simple question
GetREALnThink 2 years ago
jesus is a man and he will not pay for your sins but you can get happy but you will go to hell if you do not do good and rely on your good actions not somone paid for it this illogical... only can get this through a true religion.... examine the bible and the quran then judge for yourself. i hope you that allah will open up your mind and heart.
sadiq5519 2 years ago
you are a desperate loser who just lie. be a shame to lie without checking out the source.... you think lying and flowing your vain desire will get to heaven. oh i just remember your little blind some one paid for you sins.
sadiq5519 2 years ago
Koran confirm ALL Muslims will go to Hell. (Sura 19:71).
Koran confirms that Mohammad didn't had a clue whether he will to heaven or Hell (Sura 46:9).
Since Muhammad is among ALL Muslims of Sura 19:71, so we can be sure that he will definitely go to Hell.
My blind Muslims friend, please check these Koranic references, or ask someone who is not a looser like you and can check them for you. LoL.
PakMujahid786 2 years ago
sadiq5519!The best muslims have to offer is a pedophile, a rapist and a murderer mohammad as their prophet and a confused god who kept abrogating verses.
Now please tell us:
*What is the specific name of your allah & who is he? as allah in arabic means 'the god or god'
*Who wrote the Koran?
Why do follow pedophile mohammad?
throbleeds 2 years ago
"*What is the specific name of your allah & who is he? as allah in arabic means 'the god or god'" No, actually Allah means God, in Arabic "Ilah" means god. See the difference?
psychlopes1976 2 years ago
"mohammad as their prophet and a confused god who kept abrogating verses." Its really hypocritical of you to talk about Abrogation when Christianity is based on one BIG abrogation. According to you Paul came and arrogated the entire Judaic LAW. So what are you talking about?
psychlopes1976 2 years ago
psychlopes1976!Really? Tell me more about your pagan allah and your pedophile prophet. :)
throbleeds 2 years ago
Go play with yourself :)
psychlopes1976 2 years ago
When you have enough brains to come back and refute what I just said instead of resorting to insult because you have no valid argument to respond with, then I might grace you with the knowledge of the one true God and his honorable prophet :) Until then, you can use your lame tactics of sarcasm and insults.all you want. You're just demonstrating the kind of feeble minded sheep you are. :D
psychlopes1976 2 years ago
psychlopes1976!You don't have the guts or the brains to defend your pedophile prophet and confused God!
It is understandable that you are running away even your prophet would have peed his pant on the thought of discussing me.
Can you only screem,shout and illogically accuse men of god and can't see how your propeht lusted after little ayesha when he was in his 50's.
throbleeds 2 years ago
"It is understandable that you are running away" Running away from what exactly? arguing with a puny ignorant person like yourself? I looked at your channel to see your sources, an lo and behold, there was a Coptic priest who has been refuted and exposed for lying only a million times, and nothing subtle either, the kind of lies that would make you go "How could he think he could get away with such a big obvious lie"
psychlopes1976 2 years ago
"illogically accuse men of god" Like who? Zakaria Boutrus, the man lied his ass off about Islam. What men of God??? These are only your vain desires my friend. And it is you who came insulting and huffing & buffing talking like a raving lunatic, that only shows how much low your confidence is in your claims and in yourself.
psychlopes1976 2 years ago
It wasn't mark it was Paul who had the vision on his way to Domascus. And what great vision he must have had to turn from persecuting Christians to spreading Christianity.
GetREALnThink 2 years ago
Who is Paul, Mark, John, Luke?
4 Men, who wrote chapters in the Bible about Jesus ... But none of them, WALKED, TALKED, ATE with the man they are writing about, Jesus. or were they WALKERS or TALKERS to the deciples of Jesus. Earliest writing 60years after Jesus Death ....
Please do some research before quoting versus about these men!
They WRITE in 3rd part which makes it worse...
ACCORDING TO ... (POLCIE WONT EVEN ACCEPT THAT, why do Humans accept it?) ???
Humans are so ignorant...
HPL2007 3 years ago
Ur prophet Mohammad hasn't said anything that wasn't said thousands of years before him which is recorded in the bible. So why should we believe in something that is being repeated or rewritten?
GetREALnThink 2 years ago
Since the children have flesh and blood, he (Jesus) too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death-- that is, the devil-- and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their FEAR OF DEATH. Hebrews 2:14-15
He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him. John 3:36
matije7 3 years ago