"Should Atheists Celebrate Christmas?" (freethoughvlog #27)

[ThePandaskater]

godverdomme

[meerkatman22]

Very nice =) wasn't so sure if it would make much sense for me to celebrate Christmas..even though I knew it was a Pagan holiday a long time ago until the christians took it.. thanks! =D

[VavoTK]

@meerkatman22 How Dare you It's Birthday Of Sir Isaac Newton!!! :D

[CamoKhan2000]

Who cares what you atheists believe or celebrate. Or what your view on the entire matter is. If you read the Bible with the consciousness of a little marble, you will have an awareness as such. But if you are able to expand your consciuosness by connecting the evidence that is available all over the world, you might perhaps conclude that God is a very advanced intergalactic being. But if you stick to ridiculing Christians and anybody with alien contacts, you keep running around unaware.

[Kazzimirski]

Christmas for example, means we celebrate being together and making the dark winter days more cheerful and cosy. It is about family, friendship and compassions. And these are values which are not exclusively inherent to christianity or any religion. To me, as an atheist, these values are also very important.

Even though I am not christian, I don't have to deny the christian origins of my culture. But this doesn't have to define us, nor do our being or not being christian have to define us

[Kazzimirski]

I agree with you that Christmas is not really a Christian holiday, as are a lot of the other holidays, it is also thought of eastern for example.

But even without that argument I feel atheists can celebrate these days. These holidays have come to mean much more in our culture than their religious meaning. Regardless of their origin, these days our important to us for different reasons.

[Htogrom]

Santa Claus was Christian saint, St Nicolas of Myra. Clothing of Orthodox Bishops looks pretty similar to what Santa looks. Nicolas was very known for his charity giving. Custom of putting coins and present in socks comes from him.

Of course most western Christians forgot about that. Christmas in the west is about everything but Christ.

[hornvin]

Why should Christians celebrate Christmas ? Christmas has been celebrated in northern Europe long before Christianity came to the region. They celebrated because the winter was half way. and they could therefor celebrate with good food, candles, and evergreen trees ( to represent the green trees in the spring).

The Christians the took this celebration, and claimed that Jesus was born on this time, to make the conversion to Christianity more simple for the non Christian people.

[MrJuot234]

pagan worshipers

[L571J]

@TamarGirl I always wondered what the Southern Hemisphere thought about Christmas since it would occur in the middle of summer. In the north, all our imagery is of snow and cold and such. I always figured Christmas was a little less important in the Southern realms. Funny how ethnocentric people are to think that Christmas = snow for eveyone.

[2290963]

"Should atheists celebrate Christmas?"....that question always made me laugh!!!

[MsElise2009]

I celebrate 'jul' which is what it's called in Norway. No 'Christ' in that name. Jesus has nothing to do with my jule [yule] celebration. As an atheist I don't go to christmas mass. I don't have any angels nor baby Jesuses in my home, only candles and our Norwegian 'nisser' (a rather nasty gnomish guy with a red pointed knitted hat) decorate my jule home. Sometimes I bring in some evergreens, an old tradition from prechristian times. The christians stole our winter celebration.

[Borisvdham]

@MsElise2009 Well, but let them ;-) Everyone should celebrate it the way they want. But its good to know the origin

[Htogrom]

@MsElise2009 That proves that pure atheism can't last. Man leaving Christ very soon becomes pagan.

And, probably Christians time travelled to stole your celebrations. Since at the time when Christmas date was decided Christian Church had no contact with Nords. Even southern lands like Serbia became Christian as late as 1100. Russians even later.

So time travel should be best explanation.

[TheMortalhuman]

@MsElise2009 When believers start threatening people with doom over the fear of what they imagine the world would be like without religious belief, I always point out that if we don't watch out, we could wind up like Finland, Sweden and Norway, and suffer under the oppression of high living standards, unparalleled social justice, low crime, high education, freedom of thought and happiness and all those horrible things that can happen when a country is dominated by reasonable people.

[konopelli]

Seen from the PROPER, historical perspective, "Christmas" and all its religious antecedents were in fact the FIRST celebrations of the scientific method, where based on careful observation, measurement, prediction is possible.

It's"Scientific Method Day!"

Yea, SCIENCE!

[Borisvdham]

@konopelli Yes! Well said!

[gerstebroodje]

Christenen hebben juist deze dag voor kerst uitgekozen, omdat op deze dag de zonnegod werd aanbeden en ze daar zo iets tegenover konden zetten. Dus helemaal niet om maar gebruik te kunnen maken van alle tradities die er al waren. Bepaalde strengchristelijke groepen zijn zelfs tegen kerstbomen en dergelijke omdat ze afleiden van de kern. Je betoog is pas echt vlammend wanneer je enigszins objectief blijft m.b.t. geschiedkundige feiten.

[Borisvdham]

@gerstebroodje Well, in history 'new' religions always tried to 'use' accepted traditions to make the new views more acceptable. A smart way of getting your ideas more accepted. Your right that orthodox groups don't like to celebrate those 'heathen' or 'pagan' habbits. But the mainstream likes to mengle with the old traditions.

[Borisvdham]

@TamarGirl Yes for the Aussie's is different! ;-)

[TheLove7]

Boris, ik wens jou ook een aantal fantastische dagen toe en heel veel plezier met je gezin, vrienden en familie.

Succes volgend jaar en vooral zo doorgaan. Bedankt

[Borisvdham]

@TheLove7 Dank!

[TheBigMclargehuge]

Screw xmas, I celebrate winter solstice.

[Borisvdham]

@TheBigMclargehuge Fine! An how do you celebrate it? With a festive diner? ;-)

[TheBigMclargehuge]

@Borisvdham 2 festive dinners!

[Borisvdham]

@TheBigMclargehuge ;-)

[amluerxray7]

Fuck yah I can...give me some presents

[Borisvdham]

@amluerxray7 What are your wishes?

[valhettajakuvitelmaa]

In Finland we celebrate Joulu. It's the same weird combination of a little Jesus stuff and plenty of secular xmas with Santa Claus etc. as elsewhere. If you leave Jesus out of it you don't really miss a thing. For most of the people it's more like an atheist than a theist celebration.

[Borisvdham]

@valhettajakuvitelmaa Interesting!

[SinisterSkip]

Agree as usual Boris, except the part where you said the sun's turning to us. I know you don't mean it like that, and I don't want to be nitpicking, but it'd be less 'arrogant', saying our part of the earth is turning towards the sun. We're the little ones dependant on that giant.

Furthermore, in a country like Australia, atheists cannot really see the end of december as this scientific turning of events. By that time, summer had begun already. They'd be indifferent. Poor them :)

[Borisvdham]

@SinisterSkip of course the earth is subjected to the sun, not other way around. But the fact that the days get longer and warmer is a fact too. You're right for the Australians, but they have (like we have in the Summer) a mIdsummer to celebrate, and durting our midsummer they will have there winter solstice. The stars are making the same move for the Australians! ;-)

[SinisterSkip]

I'm an atheist, I see christmas as a nice cosy day to get together with the family, giving some presents, eat and drink a special meal. Nothing wrong with that!

[Borisvdham]

@SinisterSkip Me too! And X-mas, Yule and Saturnalia (watch the video) have all that in common. Celebrate friends and family, and celebrate the Midwinter.

[SinisterSkip]

@Borisvdham

We gotta celebrate something right. We athiests, seeing the truth, the corruption, the greed, probably need those traditions even harder than religious people. I've even seen studies of religious people on average being more happy than non religious people, also because many religious have at least 1 get together each week. It gives the local community feeling, which we (I'm exaggerating, but still) individualistic non religious people living in welfare might miss sometimes.

[SinisterSkip]

@SinisterSkip

But I'm getting really offtopic.

Boris man, you should open a forum or something, for philosphy, thinking and discussing deeper material or bigger things in life that you don't talk about every day with your relatives etc. Maybe you're already on such a discussion group. I don't know!

[Borisvdham]

@SinisterSkip Well, i don't like to generalize 'religious people'. There is a large differentiation. Very orthodox, moderate, liberal, very liberal. I think its not very 'freethinking' to say they are all the same. Liberal Protetants were ate the base of the Dutch Enlightment, and still liberal religious people are pro-science, against dogma's etc. Freethinkers, secular-thinkers and humanists are fighting with them for the same cause: individual freedom.

[Bananenmoeshhh]

ugh is dat een nederlander ofzo :/

[Bananenmoeshhh]

@Bananenmoeshhh bah nederlanders kunnen echt geen engels.

[Borisvdham]

@Bananenmoeshhh Nou jij kan al helemaal geen engels, zo te lezen ;-)

[Bananenmoeshhh]

@Borisvdham It's nothing personal really, I actually quite enjoy your videos. It's just my personal opinion towards dutch people and their lack of specific pronounce in english words.

[Borisvdham]

@Bananenmoeshhh What specific words should i pronounce better? Teach me! ;-)

[SinisterSkip]

@Bananenmoeshhh

Just to give you a hint: "[...] and their lack of specific pronounce in english words." is very bad english. Something like "[...] and their bad pronounciation of certain english words" would be closer to decent english :)

[SinisterSkip]

@Bananenmoeshhh

You're getting defensive because people rightfully correct you, responding to a failed attempt from you to correct Boris. Oh the hypocrisy :)

[Bananenmoeshhh]

@SinisterSkip yes. but also because it just irritates me that you WANT to be right. it's just so childish.

[Bananenmoeshhh]

@SinisterSkip so would you leave it now?

[rirtif]

@Bananenmoeshhh Well, you may consider adding a video response with the right pronunciation...

[Bananenmoeshhh]

@rirtif seriously SHUT UP! SHUT UP! you want a video of that huh? stop commenting on me, leave me alone, get a life and just SHUT UP! to anyone of you.

[Borisvdham]

@Bananenmoeshhh and @rirtif Please, be kind to eachother!

[Borisvdham]

@rirtif and @Bananenmoeshhh Please, be kind to eachother!

[Bananenmoeshhh]

@Borisvdham Yeah, after all, it's almost christmas. Vrede op aarde eh? Merry christmas everybody!

[rirtif]

@Bananenmoeshhh Merrie kristmus toe joe toe ;-)

[Bananenmoeshhh]

@rirtif you are such a baby.

[rirtif]

I really don't feel even a little bit of urge to celebrate the "feast of the light". Nowadays life goes on just as well by turning on a lightswitch ;-)

However, I go with the flow and enjoy a good time with the family. There's nothing wrong with that when respecting eachother's believes.

Raised as a catholic and made up my own mind later, I went from saying "Zalig Kerstmis" to "Vrolijk kerstfeest" (both dutch; I don't know exactly to put that in english). Regardless, I wish you all merry days!

[Borisvdham]

@rirtif You too. ;-)

[janc71]

You KNOW it's a Myth

This Season, Celebrate REASON! :-)

[Borisvdham]

@janc71 True! But reason gives us the knowledge that after the 21ste of december the days will get longer and warmer. Happy days, again! Good to celebrate this scientific momentum!

[Styhn]

Nice video, you might have given me a reason to care about Christmas! Let's celibrate the alignment of our Earth and the Sun!

[Borisvdham]

@Styhn Ur welcome!

[Nimrod1905]

Here in Norway christmas is still called jule:-)

[Borisvdham]

@Nimrod1905  I know! have a great Jule!

[TheRealmsNL]

Hehe, very cool Boris, I did (sort of) the same thing a while back!

/watch?v=oi5PZlB1MEk

Your stuff keeps being top shelf, continue like this and next elections you've got my vote again ;-)

[Borisvdham]

@TheRealmsNL Thanx! I've seen it!

[Yahntia]

There's a boring group-enhancing-identity-marke­r discussion lurking in here somewhere. Yaaaaadayada.

Anyways, whatever feels good :)

And, perhaps it's interesting to read up on how Wallace Stevens dealt with such festivities in his attempt to recreate a religion with his poetry. His "An Ordinary Evening in New Haven" springs to mind. Too abstract to use in a vlog, but food for thought none the less.

[Borisvdham]

@Yahntia Thanx, I'll will look for it!

[Kisarez]

Seemed a little short to me, but still a very nice vlog again. These are interesting thoughts about holidays, about their purpose and what they are about. Typing this, I also noticed that holidays is actually spelled 'holi-day'. Interesting

[Borisvdham]

@Kisarez Well, 3 minutes are long on internet ;-) And i changed the word holyday to holiday. Thanx for the tip!