TenthAmendmentNH.org plans sovereignty push - States' Rights

[mhirtes12]

Libertarians love to hide behind the "LET THE STATES DECIDE" mantra.

Gee, I wonder how that would have worked out for slavery?

[musicprodave]

@mhirtes12 The reason that states rights did not apply to slavery is because slavery violates the basic principles of individual liberty as outlines in the Constitution. What we are talking about is states rights in keeping with the Constitution so please learn your history and get your facts right.

[intrepidorator]

The country tried the articles of conferderation before it ratified the constitution. we needed a slightly stronger federal government to be able to perform the necessary functions, such as protecting the border and making treaties, etc.. The states gave a few responsibilities to the federal govt. and reserved the rest to the states and individuals. Read the federalist papers, Alexander Hamilton and James Madison discuss the role of govt.

[TeslaDRay]

one disadvantage to this is if a state has a disaster, they won't get or be entitled to federal money. its a pro and con situation. i like the thought though. and if all states declare sovernty, obama and emanual will just call in the eu troops to enact martial law....or TRY to anyway.

[AcebassII]

This about the dumbest most wrong headed idea I've ever seen. Study your history, we fought a civil war over this issue and over 300,000 Americans killed each other in the process. Is that what you want...

NUTS!

[al8397138]

lol the guy at the end was funny as hell .

[joe80dman]

BEWARE of those calling for a Constitutional Convention so as to REWRITE the Federal Constitution. We already have the laws necessary now to stop this Federal Leviathan. All we need are state reps with enough cajones to use it.

[darrellmellissa]

All the states should succed and let the distric of columbia whistle and moan.

[fczwartek]

Its interesting that this free-market fundamentalist equates the bank bailouts with health care reform.

In actuality the banks that got bailed out are using the trillions of dollars they got (interest free) to "loan" back to the taxpayers who bailed them out (with interest of course...they have to make a profit right?)

A scam, and everyone should be outraged by it.

But try to reign in the fraudulent and disgusting health care industry and tenthers start crying about states rights.

[fczwartek]

One fraudulent and deceitful industry (the banks) angle to get trillions in bailout (ransom?) money from taxpayers.

Another fraudulent and deceitful industry (health insurance) gets just a bit too greedy (denying coverage to 10 million american children..10s of millions of adults) resulting in the deaths of up to 40K people a year.

And tenthers line up to trumpet the right of private industry to kill americans (because the constitution doesn't say gvmnt has any authority to stop it.)

[fczwartek]

This jackass is upset that the government is "taking over" private industry.

Did the bailouts give the government any authority over the banks or GM? Uh...that would be a resounding NO.

The government gave away trillions with no strings attached essentially. GM will take their taxpayer subsidies and move to CHINA!

A glorious victory for GM shareholders and China...american taxpayers, not so much.

Gvmnt did not take over private industry, private industry took over gvmnt.

[lnd3005]

Those who control the central gov't and those who control the large corporations have been the same people for many generations now.

There was no taking over anything. They're all on the same team.

[fczwartek]

"They're all on the same team."

That's true. I'm not arguing that. I'm just saying that it wasn't always the case, only within the last 50 years or so, and especially the last 30.

[lnd3005]

It's been the case for much longer than that.

American politicians have been elbow to elbow w/ American business leaders since before the Revolution.

These men are pulled from the same pool. They're from the same families. They go to the same schools. They join the same fraternities.

The order of things has not changed since the invention of agriculture. Coercive social institutions, be they church or state, enable the strong and lucky to live off the weak and unlucky.

[fczwartek]

Tenthers, tea-baggers, and birthers.....oh my!

I read the introduction over at this guys website. He rambles on about how health care reform is the root of all evil, evening saying that "the health care industry is not out of control."

All this bullsh*t about the debt and deficit spending and not one single word about the real cause of our indebtedness...our gargantuan military spending and our pointless and far flung wars of aggression and empire.

Tenthers! What a crock!

[NoLongerFooled]

NH doesn't have a 10th Amendment resolution!?!? I am shocked! You guys need to get in gear - forget about smoking pot in the park.

Colorado was the first state to pass one (1994).

[Figi69]

His beard is MOST SERIOUS.

[ConstrainedNoMore]

voluntaryism FTW

[reapfreak]

END THE FED

[lnd3005]

COUNTRYSKUNK1969 ,

Men w/ balls don't define themselves and their goals w/ words written by slave masters hundreds of years dead.

[Buckhead1959]

If this guy thinks that everything is going to be OK on the economic front he's delusional.

[CredoVeritas]

Fighting for the 10th Amendment is a great idea and yet it means darn near nothing at all if people don't address the fact that they relinquished their protections under the Constitution by willfully maintaining "U.S. Citizenship status" under a jurisdiction foreign to their State (i.e., "U.S.A. in D.C). That jurisdiction was created through forceful ratification of the 14th Amendment.

The idea of a "U.S. Citizen" was created to draw you AWAY from the Constitution.

And it worked like a charm!

[lnd3005]

The Constitution is just words on paper.  It means w/e the Federal gov't says it means.

The idea of limiting or weakening the Federal gov't by "returning to" the Constitution is patently ridiculous, and more than a little pathetic.

[Dewdaahman]

the corrupt gov't has overstepped its boundries and the traitors that sit in DC misreading it need to be dealt with the way the Constitution says they are to be dealt with..

[lnd3005]

Dewdaahman,

Misreading it, are they?

They don't think so. And they've got an army of lawyers, historians, and other assorted intellectuals to back them up on that.

They've got a monopoly on meaning, and you're in no place to break it.

By your very claim to better understand their documents than they, you have already conceded defeat, in that you have acknowledged that a piece of paper commands your obedience. On those terms, it is impossible that you should ever be anything but a slave.

[Dewdaahman]

my friend, if you were around in1776 and the People listened to you then we'd mostlikely be eating "fisn~n~chips" right about now.. I read your words and what comes to mind is someone who has accepted defeat.. my "claim of better understanding..?" I understand that if I smash my finger with my hammer I don't need to read or be told by someone else that my finger hurts.. and as far as that "piece of paper", IT commands and demands obedience of the governement, by the governed..

[lnd3005]

The Constitution was written by people who were ALL RIGHT w/ owning human beings. They didn't mean any of that stuff about liberty and limited gov't. It was a lie. A con game.

Even from the beginning, the central gov't has been as large as the economy could allow.

The policy makers never, ever meant any of it. They sit in their cushy offices, provided at taxpayer expense, and they think of the many millions who respect the documents they write, and they laugh.

They laugh at you.

[libertyfizz]

@ Ind3005 negative score usually goes to authoritarians. You are correct the people who call themselves the government have the monopoly on interpretation of the USA Constitution. Why else would they be trashing it with impunity. The Constitution does not grant rights it defines the rights every human is already born with. The purpose was to attempt to limit government from infringing those natural rights. Currently it is failing due to government monopoly on interpretation.

[lnd3005]

They aren't "trashing" anything. They wrote it, and they can interpret it however they like. It's a fiction.

And fiction is their schtick. They've been at it for thousands of years. If you get in that ring, you will lose. And that's exactly what you're doing now. Losing.

No, no, no, you write, the Constitution does not _grant_ rights! It defines those every human is already born w/!

And how do we know every human is born w/ them?  They're in the Constitution, of course!

[libertyfizz]

@ Ind3005 Dude take a pill or something.

The current politicos are trashing the intention of the Constitution. It was written over 200 years ago. Unless you know something I don't the writers are dead now.

It is called the concept of natural rights. And the Constitution wasn't the origin of that concept.

Do you not think you have a right to life? There are simple some basic natural rights all people are born with. Regardless of what the Constitution says.

[lnd3005]

The Constitution limits gov't power, you write. And how do we know that? It's in the Constitution, of course!

Look at yourself. You're a marionette, with strings stretching back two centuries, maybe farther.

The founders were the same kind of political bosses and power brokers that run D.C. today. In its essence, its intent, statism does not change, ever. There were price controls on the books in ancient Assyria, and you can bet your bottom dollar Sargon was the same breed as Washington.

[libertyfizz]

@ Ind3005 Again take a chill pill I said the Constitution (attempted) to place limits on government.

In many ways the founders were political bosses the Whiskey rebellion is a good example. But they were in no-way as corrupt and power hungry as today's politicians.

The Constitution is not all bad if you keep it in context. It was in all likelihood one of the best (attempts) at defining rights and codifying rules to keep government from infringing on the natural rights of people. It failed

[lnd3005]

Who are you to say what the intention of the Constitution was? Would you happen to be a Supreme Court Justice? Them's the rules. If you're so intent to play their game, you just try.

A "right?" What's that? Can I touch it? See it?

If you wrote a fiction about a character named Mr. Right and told me he preferred vanilla to chocolate, would it be reasonable for me to reply "No, Mr. Right prefers chocolate to vanilla?" Could I, reasonably, contradict you regarding your fictional character?

[lnd3005]

The founders not only engaged in economic protectionism, overseas interventionism, and the forcible relocation of entire foreign populations, but also violently repressed their own people, as you mentioned. Oh, yeah, and about half of them held humans as property...

They were easily as unscrupulous as the current power clique, if not more so.

They didn't even have enough respect for their women to give them the vote. They don't deserve our respect, or your excuses.

[lnd3005]

Those men with w/ their faces on our money? Yeah, those pricks are dead. But so what?

The current politicos ARE the politicos of yesteryear. They do not change. They are the same rich, fat, sweating men scuffling about to take from anyone who lets them.

Politics was not once some majestic enterprise of great, gray statesmen w/ king and country on the mind. It has always been exactly as it is now. A gutless game of taking, played by suited thugs.

[libertyfizz]

@ Ind3005

I agree some politicians in every generation are capable of thuggery. Equally some politicians in every generation are capable of statesmanship. The problem now similar to the decline of every government. The balance has shifted toward rewarding thuggery. It is a mater of degrees. People fought to be free of tyranny and understood Thomas Paine. Now people are enduring tyranny deluding themselves that they are free. People have lost their Common Sense.

[lnd3005]

As funny as your pun is, you're just so wrong about "statesmanship" I'm having a hard time laughing.

J/k. I never have a hard time at that. But seriously...

Every politician, in every generation, of every era, of human history, has been a thug. B/c a politician is a thug by definition.

And a thug is still a thug, whether he realizes it or not, whether his victims realize it or not.

Taxation is theft.

Conscription is slavery.

War is murder.

[libertyfizz]

@ Ind3005

Taxation I agree it is theft. Instead donations to charity

Conscription I agree it is slavery. How about voluntary action for the common good.

I also agree that War is murder but what of self defense or voluntary militia to in defense of community?

Frederic Bastiat, "Essays on Political Economy." specifically Government. Identifies that some people comprehended the problems with government.

[lnd3005]

All right. Not war generally, but preemptive war.

If you agree that preemptive war is murder, then you must agree that agents of a preemptively-warring state are murderers. Then you must agree the founders were murderers.

If you agree that taxation is theft, then you must agree that agents of the state are thieves (the state taxes, by definition). Then you must agree that the founders were thieves.

The founders. Murderers and thieves.  Thugs.

watch?v=p25Rz2eP7s8

[Silveracity]

Everything's made up and the points don't matter.

[lnd3005]

You and I aren't made up. Gravity and the CPU aren't either.

But the constitution is. Every law, ordnance, and public document on earth is. Paper and ink. A handsome guy smooth-talking on the telly. An old guy in a dress saying something real somber-like.  Made up.

All they've got on their side is your belief. The guns, the bombs, the prisons, the universities. Products of your belief. Let that go, and all the paper in the world won't save them.

[HHODork]

Wow. that has to be the dumbest thing I think I have heard in a few days now. Good job, we should dig up an award for you. Ding ding ding, we have yet another product of public school to worry about.

[ConstrainedNoMore]

thank you for having some common sense sir, it is a pleasant sight

[803honda]

our only hope is a COMPLETE SEPERATION from the DISTRICT OF CORRUPTION!

[Dewdaahman]

"reform" sounds like to change the shape using the same piece of clay.. I agree wholeheartedly agree that our gov't needs to be reformed using the same "clay" or Constitution.. my2cents..

[glenisah]

By my count the word "states" appears 89 times in the Constitution. There is not one occurrence of the word federal in the entire document. So clearly the entire document concerns the States. With that in mind, The fed has almost no power at all.

All the States need to take back their responsibilities in regards to determining what is in the best interest of it's citizens.

States UNITED! By the people for the people and most importantly OF THE PEOPLE

[intrepgun]

the fed gains it's power by private/corporate entities. which is the reason that 'devolution' [going to a similar form of small, linked nation-states] won't work. it doesn't take into account the enormous pressure of private power.

"sometimes it is necessary to expand the floor of the cage before you break the bars."

in my opinion, states nor nations should exist. power should come solely from people. but of course we're not at that point. i do however greedily love the idea of NH standing out

[Zunile03scape]

@glenisah Your position is countered under Article 4 section 3 and Article 6. Now subtract to number of "state" uses that you say prove your case where the word "state" appears in the following phrases "United States" or "United States of America". The Constitution enumerates the "United States of America"(federal government) powers.

[rataMacue22]

HCR-6 lives! (kinda)