When I was kid I heard a lot of people saying, ":Why do I need to learn this?" This is a valid question that usually never gets answered. Here goes: All that stuff you learn in social sciences is connected to the "American" agenda, designed to subtly implant a belief system. The collection of facts, however, will become fodder to be used later. That makes Math & Science the most critical because these teach you "How" to think, as opposed to "What" to think. Religion is "What" to think.
When in search of the truth: 1) You must be entirely free from any agenda. ANY agenda will make it impossible for you to discover the truth. 2) You must be passionate about knowing the TRUTH because what ever conclusion you reach must be flexible. 3) Always consider that you could be wrong. This last rule keeps you from being stuck on stupid.
Atheism doesn't give a freedom from responsibility. There's no evidence of that claim. In fact, the only philosophies that seem to lead to this conclusion is that of religions.
Atheists recognize that we all exist, right now, in the moment, and as such, we are responsible for what we do to others. Actions we do affect others, and if we wish to live a relatively positive life, we need to be responsible, and positive, towards others with out actions. Secular Humanism.
@bastardoftheparty1 ...What? So you get to just name what you feel are inescapable facts about life, and anyone who disagrees is either wrong, or hasn't listened to you? I watched the video, and I'm politely disagreeing with it, then you come down, like a pompous ass, and go, "You didn't watch it, or you'd agree."
That's asinine. I'm glad I gave you a thumbs down.
@BigLundi What is your basis for your value system? If there is no God, and therefore no consequences other than those in the natural, then what will govern your behavior? It gets rough out here. Consider all the evil deeds that men do and get away with. What will temper your actions when you realize that very few of us play fair. In this world the only thing bad about cheating is getting caught. So tell me what gives you the moral courage to stay true to your values?
@bastardoftheparty1 ...Random response after several months aside, Why is it that you completely dismiss the relevancy of the natural consequences of actions? Why don't those matter to you? Why does it ONLY matter if there's an afterlife that judges you?
"Consider all the evil deeds men do and get away with" Sure, and consider all the evil deeds men do and DONT get away with. Under MY phyilosophy, we try and increase the number of the latter, and decrease the number of the former.
@BigLundi Yours is a great philosophy, however it doesn't reflect the world we live in. i actually like your comments, where we part company is in our view of the world.Yours is a bit more rosy.
@bastardoftheparty1 What? The world we live in isn't that we condemn those who do bad?
I understand that there ARE people out there that get away with things that we deem evil. I understand this, but I don't say, "Well, that's not fair, so I think they're EVENTUALLY gonna get what's coming to them" To me, that's a more rose colored glasses/wishful thinking way of looking at things. I look at the situation and say, "No, if we don't stop them, nobody will." IT's a pro active approach.
@BigLundi You have a value system in the absence of a belief in God, I have one absent any religious dogma, and I have at times felt like what does it matter if so many people around me have no value system beyond their own selfish wants. This is what I mean by moral dilemma my man. Some thing tells me though that it does matter. Everything we do. Your right this is a random delayed response. Second try at a better impression than my initial one. I had bad form and content. No ill will.
@bastardoftheparty1 Fair enough, would you mind elaborating a bit more on what you feel is the difference between my disbelief in god, and your disbelief in any religious dogma?
@BigLundi Not much, and that's the point. I don't believe that human behavior leads to consequences such acceptance into heaven or banishment to hell. While I believe that our actions matter, it is not because of sin. Sin divides behavior into good vs bad (dogma). This is ridiculous. Our behavior opens us up to natural consequences. Some actions bring opportunity for much more negative consequences, while others make positive consequences more likely. So sin is only a concept it's not real,
@BigLundi I do believe in God, but my lack of faith in any religion, places me in the same school of thought as atheist. I don't develop a value system because Im afraid of what God will do to me, it's because of the opportunity for so many negative results when I display a lack of respect for the other living entities in this world we share.
@bastardoftheparty1 So you're saying that you don't accept the concept of siin, and you don't think that anything we do will lead to a heavenly or hellish afterlife, but for some strange reason, you think that developing a value system is dangerous because of what God might do to you.
Doesn't that seem like a self contradictory position?
@BigLundi My value system is in place because of the natural consequences of our actions. Anything God is going to do has been done already, You're here as a result of the power of God. The ONLY thing God wants from you (in as much as an entity can actually want something) is your existence. That's all. Our symbiotic relationship with our environment and all the living entities therein produces requirements for our continued existence. We can do things to promote it or to destroy it.
@BigLundi Hell or Heaven notwithstanding, there is no being tracking your actions and rewarding/ punishing accordingly. We get what we get based on what we do. If what we do promotes our existence it is positive. If what we do threatens our existence then it's a negative. The ONLY will of God is that you BE. That's it. Ceremonies and worship (church/ temples) are a waste of time. They do nothing to advance what God desires.
@bastardoftheparty1 How do you know the will of this God you believe exists? How do you know this God exists at all? How do you know that your God, which you believe in, in fact DOESN'T punish or reward actions?
It's simply a strange thing, to believe in a god that you do, a god that's pretty much useless by definition. It's not going to do anything to me, it's not going to reward me, it's not going to even care about what I do. And the same goes for you too...
@BigLundiWhen in search of the truth: 1) You must be entirely free from any agenda. ANY agenda will make it impossible for you to discover the truth. 2) You must be passionate about knowing the TRUTH because what ever conclusion you reach must be flexible. 3) Always consider that you could be wrong. This last rule keeps you from being stuck on stupid.
@BigLundi Who said that God had to do anything for you? Maybe what God has given you (existence) is a grand enough gesture that a follow up ain't required. I hear an agenda in all of your responses. You, just like me, has had a specific belief system dictated. We have been given a list, and everybody usually makes their choices from the same shelf as everyone else. Conceptualized images of WHAT God is, is an AGENDA my man.The author of any story has a need for you to embrace their ideology.
@bastardoftheparty1 So I guess the one thing I feel COMPELLED to ask above all other things is, why do you believe in this god? What's the difference between your god, and a nonexistent god, when it comes to your life and how you live it?
@BigLundi There is no difference. I have no need for others to believe as I do. It is simply what I believe. How all this came to be could not possibly be as a result of some series of cosmic (albeit huge) accidents. That's ridiculous in my humble opinion. It's the answer to that childhood question which goes like this: Mommy where did I come from? Everyone (almost) asks this question. This is my answer. It is based on what we can perceive with our eyes, and contemplate with our intellect.
@bastardoftheparty1 There is no room for mythology, nor ceremonious religiosity. I believe religion is in place to take advantage of others. It's a surreptitious form of government based on fear and proselytism that is rooted in fascism. It's one thing to exchange ideas (like this) it's quite another to impose ones beliefs on others. While we may not share the same ideas about the existence of God the vested interest we all have in one another is inescapable.
@bastardoftheparty1 Science has shown, through all the entirety of its research, that it's fully possible, and not only possible, but probable, that the universe, as it is, without any sign of a guiding hand.
If you're saying intuition tells you there just HAS to have been a guiding hand, then you should know that the history of intuition is...not a good one. Appealing to intuition has such a bad history, it's damn near a logical fallacy. Here, watch. watch?v=fUYjnL2PqUg
@BigLundi Intuition is the same as guessing. I'm far to logical for that. There has been a consistent shaping and reshaping of this habitat over the multi-billion yr history, to arrive at this near perfect habitat. This isn't intuition it's interpretation. This guiding hand may not be a hand at all, but rather a force. Consider this: Are germs & bacteria growing on a slide aware that humans are the ones nurturing their existence? Size is certainly a variable in any equation.
@BigLundi This debate has to do with the conclusion you reach based on your interpretation of the same data im analyzing.Don't assume that all believers are hopeless romantics who need God so they can hold on to their dead relatives.I can even accept this whole world being some science project or experiment being carried out by some wiser and intellectually advance being from another universe or dimension, but there's to much control and intelligence on display for this to be accidental.
@BigLundi When you see an auto, building, or even a painting don';t you recognize the intelligence on display? That's what I see when I examine the same (accepted as) known facts you are looking at.with respect to this planet and the progression thereof. Not intuition my man interpretation. One last point regarding the video, lest I bore you endlessly; Every known fact is subject to change. A wise man is so because he always considers the fact that he can be wrong.
@bastardoftheparty1 You may ask, "But why?! Why do you try and stop people from doing evil?!"
And the answer is so simple, it amazes me that anyone really thinks an atheist's morality logically concludes that if someone kills me, it doesn't matter, or that if I kill someone else, it doesn't matter. We affect eachother. We do things that affect eachother, and therefore are responsible for our actions. "In this world the only thing bad about cheating is getting caught" Wow...just...wow.
@BigLundi Atheist are just as capable of recognizing the symbiotic relationship that ALL living things have with each other. This is the REAL reason that our actions matter, and not because of sin or religious dogma. I have a vested interest in what happens to you. While I may not need any one particular individual, we all need each other. This is an unavoidable by-product of living in a ecological system of interdependence.
The question of God & Faith. Faith means; Strong or unshakable BELIEF in a thing, especially in the absence of proof or evidence. Aren't Atheist unshakable in their belief that God doesn't exist? That is by definition faith. I believe part of the reason atheist reject the idea that atheism requires faith. is because the word faith has religious connotations, but ppl demonstrate faith in a great many things. For example, you report to work faithfully with the belief you will be paid
When I was kid I heard a lot of people saying, ":Why do I need to learn this?" This is a valid question that usually never gets answered. Here goes: All that stuff you learn in social sciences is connected to the "American" agenda, designed to subtly implant a belief system. The collection of facts, however, will become fodder to be used later. That makes Math & Science the most critical because these teach you "How" to think, as opposed to "What" to think. Religion is "What" to think.
bastardoftheparty1 2 months ago
When in search of the truth: 1) You must be entirely free from any agenda. ANY agenda will make it impossible for you to discover the truth. 2) You must be passionate about knowing the TRUTH because what ever conclusion you reach must be flexible. 3) Always consider that you could be wrong. This last rule keeps you from being stuck on stupid.
bastardoftheparty1 2 months ago
Atheism doesn't give a freedom from responsibility. There's no evidence of that claim. In fact, the only philosophies that seem to lead to this conclusion is that of religions.
Atheists recognize that we all exist, right now, in the moment, and as such, we are responsible for what we do to others. Actions we do affect others, and if we wish to live a relatively positive life, we need to be responsible, and positive, towards others with out actions. Secular Humanism.
BigLundi 7 months ago
@BigLundi You didn't listen to the vid so we won't exchange. If you had you would be able to recognize some inescapable facts about this life. Peace
bastardoftheparty1 7 months ago
@bastardoftheparty1 ...What? So you get to just name what you feel are inescapable facts about life, and anyone who disagrees is either wrong, or hasn't listened to you? I watched the video, and I'm politely disagreeing with it, then you come down, like a pompous ass, and go, "You didn't watch it, or you'd agree."
That's asinine. I'm glad I gave you a thumbs down.
BigLundi 7 months ago
@BigLundi What is your basis for your value system? If there is no God, and therefore no consequences other than those in the natural, then what will govern your behavior? It gets rough out here. Consider all the evil deeds that men do and get away with. What will temper your actions when you realize that very few of us play fair. In this world the only thing bad about cheating is getting caught. So tell me what gives you the moral courage to stay true to your values?
bastardoftheparty1 2 months ago
@bastardoftheparty1 ...Random response after several months aside, Why is it that you completely dismiss the relevancy of the natural consequences of actions? Why don't those matter to you? Why does it ONLY matter if there's an afterlife that judges you?
"Consider all the evil deeds men do and get away with" Sure, and consider all the evil deeds men do and DONT get away with. Under MY phyilosophy, we try and increase the number of the latter, and decrease the number of the former.
BigLundi 2 months ago
@BigLundi Yours is a great philosophy, however it doesn't reflect the world we live in. i actually like your comments, where we part company is in our view of the world.Yours is a bit more rosy.
bastardoftheparty1 2 months ago
@bastardoftheparty1 What? The world we live in isn't that we condemn those who do bad?
I understand that there ARE people out there that get away with things that we deem evil. I understand this, but I don't say, "Well, that's not fair, so I think they're EVENTUALLY gonna get what's coming to them" To me, that's a more rose colored glasses/wishful thinking way of looking at things. I look at the situation and say, "No, if we don't stop them, nobody will." IT's a pro active approach.
BigLundi 2 months ago
@BigLundi You have a value system in the absence of a belief in God, I have one absent any religious dogma, and I have at times felt like what does it matter if so many people around me have no value system beyond their own selfish wants. This is what I mean by moral dilemma my man. Some thing tells me though that it does matter. Everything we do. Your right this is a random delayed response. Second try at a better impression than my initial one. I had bad form and content. No ill will.
bastardoftheparty1 2 months ago
@bastardoftheparty1 Fair enough, would you mind elaborating a bit more on what you feel is the difference between my disbelief in god, and your disbelief in any religious dogma?
BigLundi 2 months ago in playlist Uploaded videos
@BigLundi Not much, and that's the point. I don't believe that human behavior leads to consequences such acceptance into heaven or banishment to hell. While I believe that our actions matter, it is not because of sin. Sin divides behavior into good vs bad (dogma). This is ridiculous. Our behavior opens us up to natural consequences. Some actions bring opportunity for much more negative consequences, while others make positive consequences more likely. So sin is only a concept it's not real,
bastardoftheparty1 2 months ago
@BigLundi I do believe in God, but my lack of faith in any religion, places me in the same school of thought as atheist. I don't develop a value system because Im afraid of what God will do to me, it's because of the opportunity for so many negative results when I display a lack of respect for the other living entities in this world we share.
bastardoftheparty1 2 months ago
@bastardoftheparty1 So you're saying that you don't accept the concept of siin, and you don't think that anything we do will lead to a heavenly or hellish afterlife, but for some strange reason, you think that developing a value system is dangerous because of what God might do to you.
Doesn't that seem like a self contradictory position?
BigLundi 2 months ago
@BigLundi My value system is in place because of the natural consequences of our actions. Anything God is going to do has been done already, You're here as a result of the power of God. The ONLY thing God wants from you (in as much as an entity can actually want something) is your existence. That's all. Our symbiotic relationship with our environment and all the living entities therein produces requirements for our continued existence. We can do things to promote it or to destroy it.
bastardoftheparty1 2 months ago
@BigLundi Hell or Heaven notwithstanding, there is no being tracking your actions and rewarding/ punishing accordingly. We get what we get based on what we do. If what we do promotes our existence it is positive. If what we do threatens our existence then it's a negative. The ONLY will of God is that you BE. That's it. Ceremonies and worship (church/ temples) are a waste of time. They do nothing to advance what God desires.
bastardoftheparty1 2 months ago
@bastardoftheparty1 How do you know the will of this God you believe exists? How do you know this God exists at all? How do you know that your God, which you believe in, in fact DOESN'T punish or reward actions?
It's simply a strange thing, to believe in a god that you do, a god that's pretty much useless by definition. It's not going to do anything to me, it's not going to reward me, it's not going to even care about what I do. And the same goes for you too...
BigLundi 2 months ago
@BigLundiWhen in search of the truth: 1) You must be entirely free from any agenda. ANY agenda will make it impossible for you to discover the truth. 2) You must be passionate about knowing the TRUTH because what ever conclusion you reach must be flexible. 3) Always consider that you could be wrong. This last rule keeps you from being stuck on stupid.
bastardoftheparty1 2 months ago
@BigLundi Who said that God had to do anything for you? Maybe what God has given you (existence) is a grand enough gesture that a follow up ain't required. I hear an agenda in all of your responses. You, just like me, has had a specific belief system dictated. We have been given a list, and everybody usually makes their choices from the same shelf as everyone else. Conceptualized images of WHAT God is, is an AGENDA my man.The author of any story has a need for you to embrace their ideology.
bastardoftheparty1 2 months ago
@BigLundi I have no need for any specific truth, I, just by nature, simply long for the truth. Whatever it may be.
bastardoftheparty1 2 months ago
@bastardoftheparty1 So I guess the one thing I feel COMPELLED to ask above all other things is, why do you believe in this god? What's the difference between your god, and a nonexistent god, when it comes to your life and how you live it?
BigLundi 2 months ago
@BigLundi There is no difference. I have no need for others to believe as I do. It is simply what I believe. How all this came to be could not possibly be as a result of some series of cosmic (albeit huge) accidents. That's ridiculous in my humble opinion. It's the answer to that childhood question which goes like this: Mommy where did I come from? Everyone (almost) asks this question. This is my answer. It is based on what we can perceive with our eyes, and contemplate with our intellect.
bastardoftheparty1 2 months ago
@bastardoftheparty1 There is no room for mythology, nor ceremonious religiosity. I believe religion is in place to take advantage of others. It's a surreptitious form of government based on fear and proselytism that is rooted in fascism. It's one thing to exchange ideas (like this) it's quite another to impose ones beliefs on others. While we may not share the same ideas about the existence of God the vested interest we all have in one another is inescapable.
bastardoftheparty1 2 months ago
@bastardoftheparty1 Science has shown, through all the entirety of its research, that it's fully possible, and not only possible, but probable, that the universe, as it is, without any sign of a guiding hand.
If you're saying intuition tells you there just HAS to have been a guiding hand, then you should know that the history of intuition is...not a good one. Appealing to intuition has such a bad history, it's damn near a logical fallacy. Here, watch. watch?v=fUYjnL2PqUg
BigLundi 2 months ago
@BigLundi I'll watch and let you know what I think
bastardoftheparty1 2 months ago
@BigLundi PS. It's not intuition
bastardoftheparty1 2 months ago
@BigLundi Intuition is the same as guessing. I'm far to logical for that. There has been a consistent shaping and reshaping of this habitat over the multi-billion yr history, to arrive at this near perfect habitat. This isn't intuition it's interpretation. This guiding hand may not be a hand at all, but rather a force. Consider this: Are germs & bacteria growing on a slide aware that humans are the ones nurturing their existence? Size is certainly a variable in any equation.
bastardoftheparty1 2 months ago
@BigLundi This debate has to do with the conclusion you reach based on your interpretation of the same data im analyzing.Don't assume that all believers are hopeless romantics who need God so they can hold on to their dead relatives.I can even accept this whole world being some science project or experiment being carried out by some wiser and intellectually advance being from another universe or dimension, but there's to much control and intelligence on display for this to be accidental.
bastardoftheparty1 2 months ago
@BigLundi When you see an auto, building, or even a painting don';t you recognize the intelligence on display? That's what I see when I examine the same (accepted as) known facts you are looking at.with respect to this planet and the progression thereof. Not intuition my man interpretation. One last point regarding the video, lest I bore you endlessly; Every known fact is subject to change. A wise man is so because he always considers the fact that he can be wrong.
bastardoftheparty1 2 months ago
@BigLundi PS I dont buy into the afterlife thing at all, but many in this world do. Fear is a powerful motivator.
bastardoftheparty1 2 months ago
@bastardoftheparty1 You may ask, "But why?! Why do you try and stop people from doing evil?!"
And the answer is so simple, it amazes me that anyone really thinks an atheist's morality logically concludes that if someone kills me, it doesn't matter, or that if I kill someone else, it doesn't matter. We affect eachother. We do things that affect eachother, and therefore are responsible for our actions. "In this world the only thing bad about cheating is getting caught" Wow...just...wow.
BigLundi 2 months ago
@BigLundi Atheist are just as capable of recognizing the symbiotic relationship that ALL living things have with each other. This is the REAL reason that our actions matter, and not because of sin or religious dogma. I have a vested interest in what happens to you. While I may not need any one particular individual, we all need each other. This is an unavoidable by-product of living in a ecological system of interdependence.
bastardoftheparty1 2 months ago
The question of God & Faith. Faith means; Strong or unshakable BELIEF in a thing, especially in the absence of proof or evidence. Aren't Atheist unshakable in their belief that God doesn't exist? That is by definition faith. I believe part of the reason atheist reject the idea that atheism requires faith. is because the word faith has religious connotations, but ppl demonstrate faith in a great many things. For example, you report to work faithfully with the belief you will be paid
bastardoftheparty1 7 months ago