Is this Kevin Rudd or John Howard?

[palevo7]

i think the greens in Australia are a complete joke.

[russ9356]

WOW CLIMATE CHANGE LOL

[MasterDarkarbiter]

Not enough bass

[MrAntiFarLeft]

Im 43 years old and i swear the summers were consistently hotter when i was a child.

[PonguigPeopinn]

Greens = Sheep

Why do you blatantly ignore the argument of sceptics, especially considering that skepticism is the most catalysing tool for scientific accuracy?

CO2 is a TRACE GAS taking up 0.0004% of the atmosphere. It is absurd to assert that it has any effect whatsoever on climate or temperatures, unless it has an impossible absorption rate.

The specific heat capacity of CO2 is lower than that of air, so how is it even possible for CO2 to cause warming when it more likely causes cooling.

[MRMILO57]

Hehe

The Rudd government backing down on ETS.

You greens are losing big time now, your desperation in the media is very funny.

THE EMPEROR GOT NO CLOTHES

(look it up kiddies).

[luke666808g]

boo fucking hoo

global warming is BULLSHIT!!!

[tsf66]

Green propaganda...

with increase of population its 26%. much better than the french, the green party originators.

[taffetaqueenofthe80s]

Vote 1 Greens 2009

[philipmach]

The fact the some of Howard's supporters have said this is more or less what Howard would have done may be some indication. Waiting for the rest of the world to push us to 15% means we don't care if they don't go for more than 15%. The science Rudd is working from says the Great Barrier Reef dies if the worldwide cut is less than 25%. He has made an informed choice. So should we next election.

[widerangledotcom]

no, its still kevin rudd. you're just dissappointed you threw your support behind him and he didn't do all he promised.

[thelovebuckles]

obvious troll.

say, were you disappointed when Howard brought in the GST? See, this is like the GST except instead of having to pay money you don't have an environment. GFY.

[widerangledotcom]

um. no, i was eight years old at the time.

i know all politicians make false promises. why did people think kevin rudd was going to be different?

[EnvironVictoria]

I disagree robbibt. I think now, more than ever, we need to start making the transition to a clean economy. We don't have time to wait through another recession while polluting industries bunker down to business as usual. The Newcastle coal port expansion alone will wipe out this measly 5% saving so actually Kevin Rudd had decided to do nothing but look like he's doing something. I say, he may as well be John Howard for, like it or not, we've got a warmed up version of the Howard policy.

[robbibt]

Look, I'm disinclined to argue strongly against what you have written, simply because I agree with most of it, and am and always have been a strong supporter of action on this front. Several things you have written I have to correct though: firstly, you cannot claim the 5% reduction is 'nothing', as it is a 5% reduction from 2000 levels. The port expansion can't affect that, as it means we have to undo all additional carbon levels entering the atmosphere since 2000, plus the additional 5%.

[philipmach]

But what sense does it make when you are trying to cut emissions to increase coal export capacity? Aha. Now I get it: the emissions from exports will mostly be accounted for as someone else's, a dodgy scam if ever there was one. We want to reduce emissions worldwide, not just here, so increasing coal exports is rank hypocrisy. Next thing we'll be blaming the importers who buy from us for increasing _their_ emissions.

[robbibt]

So it's not simply '5% less', as has been reported by mainstream media, it's an absolute reduction, not a relative one.

Also, when this issue is raised, it is the 5% number that is discussed, while the total 15% that kicks in if other nations also cut emissions is not mentioned. If in the next few years where those major polluters have cut emissions, then we will be cutting the full 15%. If we are not in such a position, we will have a problem on our hands far, far greater than Australia's 5%.

[EnvironVictoria]

Even if we were to cut 15% (an absolute reduction), its still not enough to prevent a 3 degree temperature change - so it's as good as if we'd done nothing. In addition it has two really unfortunate side affects - firstly, it undermines international negotiations by undercutting what we all agreed to at the Bali talks. Its going to be much harder to reach international agreement, when a country like Australia decides it would rather follow than lead.

[EnvironVictoria]

Secondly no matter what you or I want to do to cut emissions deeper, any emissions you now save beyond 5% will go as free permits for the big polluters to buy in order to emit more. In other words, there's no way we can save any more than 5%, even if the Australian populace decides its going to lead where the government won't.

[EnvironVictoria]

In fact, the more we save, the cheaper the permits become - providing a massive disincentive for those on the fence to change their behaviour at all. In fact, we're making it easier to continue business as usual because we're subsidising an industry that relies on a finite resource to survive - rather removing subsidies for the big polluters and making the transition to a clean economy more affordable.

[philipmach]

You're not accounting for an even bigger problem. If reasonably deep cuts don't start soon, we will increasingly likely be faced with catastrophic climate change, only possible to stop by stopping virtually all coal. What will happen to our economy then? A slow phase-down now makes a lot more sense than doing the minimum, while increasing our economic exposure to coal. You could achieve more than 5% by energy efficiency alone. Fiscal irresponsibility, environmental stupidity.

[robbibt]

Bullcrap. I'm a passionate supporter of action against climate change, and even I was surprised and disappointed by Rudd's announcement. What we need to remember though is that with the global economic crisis, things have changed dramatically since the election. If the Australian economy goes under via recession, we won't be able to do anything to stop climate change whatsoever.

Criticize this decision by all means, but to liken Kevin Rudd to Howard is a stupid claim, and The Greens know it.