Whooping Cough Outbreaks & Vaccine Failures, July 14, 2010

[Ttssuf]

There's been an increase in the no.of vaccines in the last 2 decades & a sharp rise in autism too which can be correlated. It also correlates with the data that a generation or 2 ago, autism was 1 in 10,000 which at present is abt 1 in 91. Further, in America so many children & teenagers 've cancer & I come from a so-called 3rd world country & I 've hardly known ppl with cancer under the age of 20. Don't tell me everything is fine in America..

[ArcanaKnight]

@Ttssuf First, correlation doesn't equal causation. Second, as I've already explained below, the evidence shows that the rise in autism is due to increased surveillance and a broader definition, not any environmental factors, especially when combined with the large amount of evidence showing a genetic cause.

Also, cancer is a completely separate thing than autism with different causes. Bringing it up is is just a red herring; it has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

[Ttssuf]

@ArcanaKnight What do u mean by correlation doesn't equal causation. When 1000s of mothers are reported seeing their perfectly normal children recede to autism, brain inflamation, seizures, etc. just hours after or days after or a few months after vaccination; are you telling me to disbelive these mothers in favour of some cooked up science dished out by paid pimps. Do u think these mothers lie about their own kids; most of them educated & some of them doctors or medical professionals even..

[ArcanaKnight]

@Ttssuf So, anything that happens within months of receiving a shot is caused by the vaccine? That is utterly ridiculous; you clearly know very little about biology or the immune system.

And no, the parents aren't lying because that means that they know they're wrong but saying it anyway. There are other factors at work here: blame seeking, the coincidence that symptoms for it arise around the same time (in unvaccinated kids too), confusing correlation with causation, etc.

[Ttssuf]

Of course, we started off this discussion with vaccines and vaccines are proven to cause cancer and there's no other cause for cancer other than these toxins in children under 10. In fact, doctors itself say that 20 - 25 yrs ago, cancer among children was never heard of. It's also nothing new that they turn the blame on the parent's genetics for autism.

[ArcanaKnight]

@Ttssuf Vaccines don't cause cancer. That's just another bogus anti-vax claim.

[ArcanaKnight]

Did she really complain about a vaccine that has already been replaced with a safer one?

She just uses common anti-vax misinformation tactics like pointing to the overall vaccination rate instead of the vaccination rate among those being infected (likely because its significantly lower in the latter group), or saying an "unknown number" of vaccinated people carry the disease (how could we know if its unknown?).

[Ttssuf]

@ArcanaKnight It's really a joke this whole vax scam..

A typical child in US, by the age of 2 (if vax schedule in followed) would get around 24 shots. This is utterly INSANE to anyone with common sense..

I shud be a moron to believe that God created man or man evolved (if ur an evolutionist) with this many vax deficiency that u need to pump so much poison into a child as soon as it's born. Apparently, no other animals on earth has this deficiany.. JOKE of the century..

[ArcanaKnight]

@Ttssuf Your argument displays a total ignorance of evolution, immunology, and biology in general.

First, ts not as if these diseases have been around throughout our history. Diseases evolve just like any other organism, this is how new strains and entirely new disesaes come about.

Second, animals are afflicted with diseases just as with any organism (just as a rancher). One reason why it is a bit more of a problem with humans is because CONT

[ArcanaKnight]

CONT we cover and travel across the whole planet, so diseases which pop up in one location are no longer confined to that particular group as it would be otherwise. This also leads to more diseases interacting with each other and developing new strains and other ways to bypass our immune responses.

[Ttssuf]

@ArcanaKnight Ya I agree to ur arg that diseases evolve & new strains come about. But I'm also not ignorant of the fact that these days diseases/viruses are created in the labs and spread thru vaccines or flu shots and once there's a disease outbreak they themselves produce the vaccines (anti-virus) against the disease. I also understand it's a big business without which Big Pharma cannot thrive. So I'm not toatally surprised to see the new strains coming up every other year or decade..

[ArcanaKnight]

@Ttssuf That is just conspiracy theorist nonsense. I refuse to discuss conspiracy theories like that because it is pointless; any disconfirming evidence is invariably either ignored or is waved away as being part of the conspiracy.

[Ttssuf]

@ArcanaKnight Finally, 'Conspiracy' & 'Conspiracy Theory' are just N. American shun words which shuts down the normal thinking process of avg. Americans as soon as these terms are flashed repeatedly.We 've seen how some of these so-called conspiracy theories 've come true about 9/11, chemtrails etc. just in the near future. So don't blabber abt conspiracy theorists; i shud say some of them 've much more sense than the glorified & licenced morons who call themseves as 'scientists'.

[ArcanaKnight]

@Ttssuf Yeah...none of the conspiracy theories you listed have ever been proven true. In fact, they have repeatedly been debunked, but (as I said before) conspiracy theorists continue to either ignore the explanation or say that it is part of the cover up.

[Ttssuf]

A country like US which is medically & technologically advanced, how is it that 8/10 ppl die of heart-attack & cancer. How is it that 35% popul'n takes 5 or more medications a day. How is it that a majority r obese & unhealthy when all of them 've their personal/family doctors to care for. That alone expose the efficiency & dependability of your white-coats gods. B4 u talk abt biology, immunology etc., u shud start of with 101 course in commonsense. Sart asking simple basic questions...

[ArcanaKnight]

@Ttssuf None of that has anything to do with the safety or efficacy of vaccines.

[Ttssuf]

@ArcanaKnight Although there are so many studies proving contrary to vaccines, I don't need those stats to prove that vax are causing epidemin in US. Just look at the sheer no. of autistic children and children with other abnormalities in US alone who were born normal.. If you don't trust Wakefield, chk out Sherri Tenpenny, Rebecca Carely, David Ayoub, Len Horowitz, Mercola, Mary Tacco etc., just to name a few..

[ArcanaKnight]

@Ttssuf The increase in autism can be explained mostly (if not wholly) by a broadening of the definition and increased surveillance. Studies have been done that applied the old criteria to modern populations, and found that the rise in autism virtually disappeared.

Every study I have seen by Wakefield, Tenpenny, Mercola, and the rest supposedly showing vaccines to be a cause have been poorly designed, fraudulent, cherry picked, or otherwise flawed.

[ArcanaKnight]

Besides, naming PHDs like that who agree with your point is a fundamentally flawed argument. Not only does it not prove anything (the other side could easily give just as many names if not more), but not all PHDs are created equal (a degree in nutrition or radiology doesn't qualify you as an expert on either immunology or autism), just having a degree doesn't make one immune to believing quackery, and some of the names on your list didn't even have medical degrees.

[Ttssuf]

@ArcanaKnight Your argument abt broadened definiton & increased surveilance echos the same as that put out for public consumption by Govt. & the Medical community & it can be debunked in no time. Here's my pt.: Just compare the ppl above the age of 50 with a group of ppl below the age of 20 or 25. The broadned def. & increased surveilance applies to both groups. Now compare the number of ppl with autism or such deformities in each group & I bet u that u will see an sharp rise int he young grp

[ArcanaKnight]

@Ttssuf Yes, it echoes that because its true. As I said, studies have actually already been done where they applied the same diagnostic criteria to the populations then and now, and they found that the increase largely disappears. Here is a great article that explains this:

ww w. sciencebasedmedicine. org/?p=95

[Ttssuf]

@ArcanaKnight If increased surveilance & broadened definition is the cause for rise in autism reporting, then tell me simply why I don't see as much autistic ppl in the age group of 50+ as in the group that's under 25 yrs of age. Just compare the no.of autistic ppl from both population group & ur broadened definition & surveilance applies to both groups living today. YOu will see ur argument driven to the dustbin in no time.

[ArcanaKnight]

@Ttssuf Studies looking at exactly that same thing have already been done, as I pointed out before. If you had read the article I posted, you would know that.

[ArcanaKnight]

Nothing new? Wow, this lady has quite a lot of nerve to say that outbreaks are unaffected by the vaccination rate. I suppose its only a coincidence that the outbreaks have been caused by and centered in unvaccinated communities, or that measles and mumps have become endemic in the UK only after the vaccination rates fell as a result of Wakefield's fraudulent study scaring people away from them.

[Ttssuf]

@ArcanaKnight

Get a life u moron..

You jokers think that Vaccines save life.. must be a paid pimp of the Big pharma..

[ArcanaKnight]

@Ttssuf Of course, because anyone who disagrees with anti-vax propagandists MUST be a "Big Pharma" shill. It couldn't possibly be that actually researching the facts behind this issue instead of blindly believing anti-vax propaganda shows that these claims are total rubbish, now could it?

[Ambitionn01]

We love you Barbara. It appears there are some vaccine employees here today. I guess they look for you. We in the autism recovery arena listen and learn and highly appreciate all that you do. If I could go back in time, there would be no vaccines for my children. I do have some relatives that have never had vaccines, and they are the most healthiest of all the relatives. I am gobs jealous I didn't learn about vaccines sooner. My children are recovered from autism.

[hann21921]

Dear Mrs. Fisher, I appreciate your sharing of information very much, even I don't always say so. Best regards, Hann

[mjr256]

There were 900 cases in CA in 2010 alone. That's FOUR TIMES that in recent years. If the trend continues, 2010 will have more cases of pertussis than the last 50 years combined. & there were FIVE INFANT DEATHS ALL UNDER THE AGE OF THREE MONTHS, which is FIVE MORE THAN NORMAL.

Funny how when it's the vaccines just ONE injured child is too many for you, yet when FIVE infants die due to lack of vaccines, it's no big deal. I guess they're just collateral damage in your fight to save the children.

[mjr256]

I prefer to get my medical information from trained medical professionals in related fields, not from the speculations and conjectures of ideologues with no background in medicine of any kind.

[fightforyourlandbase]

@mjr256 you said, "...when it's the vaccines just ONE injured child is too many for you, yet when FIVE infants die due to lack of vaccines, it's no big deal."

did you watch the whole video? one of the main things she talks about is how people who HAVE been vaccinated are still coming down with whooping cough.

[mjr256]

@fightforyourlandbase

What's your point? That doctors claim the pertussis vaccine is 100% effective? If so, who holds this position? I've never heard any doctor make such an extraordinary claim. Aside from the implicit straw man being presented here, you seem to be falling victim to the false dichotomy fallacy. Vaccines, like condoms for instance, aren't either 100% effective or 0% effective. There's a whole range you ignore. The actual efficacy is closer to 99%, which is pretty damned good.

[fightforyourlandbase]

@mjr256 thank you for making arguments against a bunch of stuff i never said. and for notifying me that I ignore the range of effectiveness of condoms and vaccines! its amazing that you were able to determine those things about me based on my very simple two sentence comment to you. you seem to want to push me to be in the completely opposite position as you so that you can argue against me. i'm not interested.

[mjr256]

@fightforyourlandbase

I apologize if I've missed your point but I can't for the life of me figure why then what you meant when you said:

"she talks about is how people who HAVE been vaccinated are still coming down with whooping cough."

Yes, one can be vaccinated and still get the disease. Everyone already knows this because as I said, they're not 100% effective. If I missed your point, then please reiterate it for me.