Re: A Question for g0at and other atheists

[LiberalsBJHobos]

My vag has been so itchy today... I think you stole my ex you cunt bag!! I'm gonna find you, you bitch!!

[sototajeri]

@HelloImAtheist do u really think that atheism is a fact? think a little harder and u might understand that atheism is based on faith just like religions, the question is what is more probable and im afraid that existence of God is much more porbable then non existence

[HelloImAtheist]

@sototajeri Its all a matter of belief, my friend.

[russianpostman]

i liked mike campochiaro. Apparently he knows g0at in real life and it was from g0at that we learn (via mikecampochiaro2 tribute channel) that mike left youtube because he was 'tired of it'. I cant find any g0at videos, nor know of them so g0at must have been deleted from youtube...and ive just realised ive not mentioned your video. I found your video of your thoughts and experiences very interesting and succinctly put, although i will say that i do belive in God.

[DarkDancer2345]

RANDOM STATEMENT THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYTHING:

You look like one of my friends :D

[damvid21]

Your voice on this vid is so relaxing, I could watch it all day! :)

You're absolutely right in what you say, why follow any dogmas or doctrines? Most religions stem from centuries ago from people with a lack of understanding about the world around them. Now that we live in a time where we can answer so much, one wonders how much longer religions will continue to hold any sway at all.

[Nixom1334]

My parents are Hard-core catholics, I'm Atheist. I'm a really analytical, logical person and they kept telling me that using logic was wrong, that's when i knew i was going to be an atheist. they call me the Anti-Christ but I think I'm way more moral then they are. I dn't think that people should need to believe in imaginary things to be a good person

[ermaclob]

god dam the shit camera + the white skin and black eye liner are making think ur a robot or something . its fucking with my eyes

[Jhoods2800]

 hottest woman ever.

[Drewsdays]

Jesus loves you so much! More than you can understand :D

[Pernic10us]

@Drewsdays

But not quite as much as the FSM!

May he wrap you in his noodly appendages!

Ramen.

[Garetado]

Communism is the only answer!!!

[HeavyMechanics]

You gotta watch some George Carlin standup. watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o

[BloodBoner]

Question: How relieved were you upon realizing that Christianity, with all of its blind worshiping and its "burning in hell after death" rhetoric, was complete bullshit? (Correct me if I happened to misunderstand the context of your video.)

[HelloImAtheist]

@BloodBoner

i thought it was pretty fuckin great, in fact i was quite outspoken and arrogant about it at first. that obviously went away though. It was extremely relieving to know I can live my life how I want and make my own moral decisions about things, as an open minded human and not a religiously oppressed individual.

[HeavyMechanics]

@HelloImAtheist That's always interesting to me, that religious people often seem to assume because Atheists don't believe in a "higher power" that they cannot therefore have a code of morals. It's ironic that I often find that my so-called Christian and Catholic friends have despicable ethical and moral conduct. But they are easily "forgiven" for their transgressions. What a cop out. Your "sins" are your actions and you can't take them back. What's done, is what you did, and there it sits.

[majorl31]

God knows all about all of you atheists he he 

[majorl31]

Jesus said in prayer and its in the book "thank you father that you have hidden these truths to those who think themselves wise and revealed it unto babes,the Bible truths cannot be understood by the natural mind read 1 corinthians 2:14

[sciomancy6]

:) agreed with a lot what you said in this video.

[eleat117]

Jesus is a cosmic Jewish zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

[RickLectums]

This reminds me a lot of myself when i was younger. I think a lot of people have been there; "shopping for a religion" in a stage of agnosticism. I sure was at around that age of my early high school years when i had confirmed in my head that this catholicism stuff was nuts. I think the big problem is this; People feel afraid of not being a part of something big. I'm now 22 and i've been atheist for 6 years. I live in Miami which is hugely catholic. Stick true to what your brain tells you!

[Aresftfun]

You look exactly like a girl in my school. o.0

Anyhow, subbed! You're awesome.

[rubberbaby00]

If there were a heaven, it would be only for atheists.

"Truth, love, intellectual honesty" you have it all, people.

[TOTALMAYHEM4LIFE]

if you were a 12 year old girl, i would make love to you...

[judasishmael]

I think your evolution of thought is beautiful and, as a someone who got tired of FEARING god, became a person that questioned the validity of everything. I cannot reconcile my findinds with the Christian god.

[Unknnnnn]

I love thee !!

[wakcedout]

agnosticism is not really a stage but more of a pure human rationality seeing that we don't see a god to be there but also don't see if a god cannot be there, i like to wonder but it stays at that and i can't be sure until my death and noone has ever come back from the dead to tell us what has happened. and me agnostic and you as atheist we are both rational my child will grow to find herself in the same situation and all i can do is give her rational answers and let her decide.

[Skidonti]

Hooray triple post. Sorry, guys. :(

I see no logical argument for religion, so I choose not to pledge my life to such a restricting system. Instead I chose the way of no commitment, so i won't be wasting my time.

[Skidonti]

I have stopped thinking agnosticism is a valid position. What that is is just spirituality. There is something there but it won't make me follow it.

Religion forces you to live a certain way, so to truly not care and just live, you need to become simply spiritual or an atheist.

You don't need a degree to figure that.

In response to the person suggesting just living happy.

[judasishmael]

@Skidonti As an agostic,I have to disagree.I'm agnostic, not atheist, because I take more of a scientific view.Atheists are so certain there is no god, but they have no proof.While I aknowledge that there may be god,I also acknoelegde his possible inexistance.Until proof has been found either way, I remain agnostic.

And please don't tell me what I "need" to do.It's rude and invasive.I live a certain way based on morals: those things that make you know an action is wrong.No need of god or un-.

[kryckeestrooff]

@judasishmael I was enjoying reading your comment, but when I got to the end I realised you are a fool! I'm not insulting you, so don't take me wrongly, but if you think we are born knowing right and wrong as part of the human condition, then you are indeed foolish! God writes his Laws into our hearts and minds, we then choose the path we follow. Politicians and Lawyers don't make these rules they might like to think so, but they don't. That's why we have "Natural Law!" which coincides with God!

[judasishmael]

@kryckeestrooff I'm pretty sure it isn't very Christian of you to go around calling people fools!, even if you don't agree with them. Name calling only demeans any point you're trying to get across.

And I never said anything about politics or laws. What I said was"morals," which can still be had without god. If something is a hurtful action, such as calling someone names, even a secular moral person knows they shouldn't do it. Or is god ok with petty slander?

[kryckeestrooff]

@judasishmael Did I say I was a Christian? Funny I don't seem to recall saying that! Maybe I'm a Muslim or a Jew, possibly a Hindu or a Buddist, sorry if I missed anyone and that offends some minority group, it's not intentional! LMAO

On the topic of politics look up any Constitution and you'll find that it has a basis set by two things, The Morals of the 10 Commandments and Taxes! Enlightened apes new laws stray from the Commandments of God, and that's when injustice enters into this world!

[judasishmael]

@kryckeestrooff True, you didn't say you were Christian, so, as long as your arguments keep saying things like, "new laws stray from the Commandments of God, and that's when injustice enters into this world!" I will continue to infer that you believe in a god and that god has 10 Commandments. However, I never said anything about politics or the law, so I don't know why you keep bringing it up. As for the 10 commandments, I know that stealing or killing is wrong, but not because of some list.

[Skidonti]

I think I think I think I think I think

No, you don't! See some logic people! See some morals! Let go of that dang book!

[kryckeestrooff]

I got news for you little Girly, You still are a Child! Sorry but the make up really doesn't hide your baby features yet! How old are you 15, 16 at most?

[judasishmael]

@kryckeestrooff Age has nothing to do with wisdom. "From the mouths of babes," He said.

[kryckeestrooff]

@judasishmael Where did I say age has anything to do with wisdom? What I said was "You are still a Child!" where does the wisdom thing come into this?

[judasishmael]

@kryckeestrooff Well,you referenced the girl's youth and,since age is usually considered a factor when appraising one's level of wisdom AND you didn't follow up your opinions about her "baby features" with anything else universally age-related(i.e. legal age for consent,driver permits, or voting)one can only derive from your comment that,as you disagree with her,you are simply calling her age and,thus,wisdom into question.If you weren't implying a lack of wisdom on her part,why bring up her age?

[gygybest]

CONTINUANCE 2:

All we have to do is loving God and be&do good!

[gygybest]

CONTINUANCE 1:

If you say that you can't know for shore that God exists, then i tell you that you know what is good and what is bad. All we have to do is being good, and do good things, and then we must seek for the truth, the truth that there is a Creator who created all of us and who loves us, and after our death He will take us to His kingdom!The greatest gift will ever receive will be the eternal life, a life were is just love, goodness, happiness, gladness and nothing bad.

[gygybest]

Hi. If you don't believe in God, then what is your primordial purpose in your life? Is just to live, make some children, going to work, try to be happy and then just die, ending to exist? I think there is more than that, and there is a God who is waiting for us to awake from the sleep of ignorance and try to be better than we are in this moments, because He is having bigger plans for us.

[kokofan50]

To carey on a line from over 1,000,000,000 years, working to better humanity and then truning back in the matter you're made of is not enough for you. You have to think that you have a sky daddy waiting for after your ride of a lifetime waiting to give you every thing you might want (you not me living forever with peple like would be hell). Ignorance is what you've got to work on if you think the world and more is not good enough then you don't know it well enough

[franky15860]

@gygybest Why does your life have more meaning for believing something that is absurd at best? So many sanctimonious christians have told me this. I think the idea of an ideal life after death is out of date and requires a sence of humour, which most christians dont have.

[murrymurrymurrymurry]

^_^

[MatthewTribe69]

So you are like 14 or 15 years old. There is no reason why you would need to be scared of anything. And you have done little to no research on this thing you so strongly believe in. So stop needing to be so Anti-Everything.

[flangecake2000]

I'm in. BOOM.

[IceCreamSteve1]

im going to fuck your face!! lol j/k +1 anybody?

[silverblaize]

i used to be an atheist for years, until i started doing psychedelic substances.

it was then that i realized that i was dead wrong. atheists are almost just as close minded as christians, IMO.

the truth is, neither atheists nor religious fanatics can prove they are right. therefore, we shouldnt worry about it, and just live our lives and be happy!

i guess im an agnostic, but im just a free thinker. and hey, even if there WAS a god, it would be something BEYOND our human comprehension.

[ILLUMANOV]

can you tape yourself in your knickers and send it to me in a pm

Thanks

[ADeepVoice]

It's a wonderful and informative video. Great stuff.

Keep it up.

[rockfan246]

hey at least you are truthful about things like this i was also brought up like a christian but at pre school it was forced down my throat because i said i dont believe in their god and i never will because i analysed their religion and i never really caught on to it. well it made sense in a way but not enough i am an atheist as well and i used to feel the same

[xMikeTheAtheistx]

Haha, odd that most analytical people are atheists. :)

[ADeepVoice]

I thought it was quite obvious. Creationists actually either don't read their holy book or they just don't understand it.

If you actually READ it, seriously. Anyone would become Atheist -.-

[amanwithdreams]

@ADeepVoice No if you actually read it and understand it in it's context, with reference to biblical law and history you would take it seriously.

[ADeepVoice]

@amanwithdreams

You're talking about a fictional book. It's equivalent to reading Peter Pan within the context of there being another world present within this one where people can fly. If you accept that, ofcourse the book would make sense. But the premise is what is under question.

[amanwithdreams]

@ADeepVoice There is enough archaeological evidence which correlates to the stories from the Holy Bible. It's only fictional to people as yourself. Slowly they find more and more evidence of places mentioned in the Bible. Because the nature of God is supernatural, there will always be an element of "this can't be real" about the Holy Bible.

[ADeepVoice]

@amanwithdreams

What are you talking about? It's been established for years that modern israeli archaeology disproves the books of moses to a significant degree. It's also a fascade and a patent dishonest mind that rejects all evidence that is against their belief with the false hope that "some day, stuff will come about that will support my idea" while genuinely putting forward the notion that people shouldn't see you as crazy.

[Pernic10us]

@amanwithdreams

The fact that the bible mentions places and events that had happened during, or close to when it was written, is not proof of its supernatural claims.

The story in the Spider Man comic books take place in the city of New York. We know that New York exists. You may have been there. That doesn't prove that Spider Man is real!

None of the *miraculous* claims of the bible are supported with archeological evidence.

[amanwithdreams]

@Pernic10us Yes you are 100% correct and .........your point. Just because we can't see things doesn't mean they don't exist or happen and vice versa. Comparing spider man is quite funny, as we well know it was written purely for entertainment. I do not think all the Christians who died for what they saw and believed, did it purely for entertainment, do you?

[Pernic10us]

@amanwithdreams

I think you missed my point. My point was that, just because the bible includes somewhat accurate details of the times and events of the time, there is no reason to believe that the miraculous claims are valid.

There are many people throughout history that have died for what they believe. This does not mean that what they believe is true.

Suicide bombers in the middle east truly believe they are dying for their god. Does that mean that Allah is the one true god?

[amanwithdreams]

@Pernic10us Things which are miraculous by nature can never be proved, science cannot deal with the supernatural. Just like the Big bang theory, which is also a miraculous claim, that out of nothing, came something, also no one was there to verify. Faith is not based on just facts alone, that is why it''s called faith. Lets get one thing straight. The devil did a great job in deceiving Mohammad. Islam is a false religion, as no right and just religion would have people killing themselves.

[Pernic10us]

@amanwithdreams

Who has made the claim that something came from nothing? This is not what the big bang theory states. This is straw man argument drummed up from the creationist propaganda machine.

Actually, you would be the one that claims that something came from nothing. Faith isn't based on facts at all. It is the rejection of facts to support a presumed notion. I find it interesting that apologists try to defy this to hammer down reasonable doubts.

[amanwithdreams]

@Pernic10us Open up any science text book on Evolution which has life arising from non-life (just look at any evolutionary textbook, and you'll see Miller's experiment for example). This is in direct violation of well-established, scientific and natural laws such as biogenesis and thermodynamics.

[Pernic10us]

@amanwithdreams

Let's try to stay on one subject here. This is turning into a wild goose-chase of topics!

Evolution doesn't have anything to say about the origin of the universe. The current theory of cosmology does not state the the universe came from nothing. My question was asked to find where you are getting your information from.

[amanwithdreams]

@Pernic10us I get my information from the same places as you. What does it have to do with anything?

[Pernic10us]

@amanwithdreams

But you seem to be under the impression that the big bang came from nothing, and the evolution includes the very origin of life.

It was only proven that advanced forms of life could not be the immediate result of basic chemical reactions, and protein structures. I assume your are referring to the findings of Pasteur and the like. This did not include primitive derivatives. No law in biogenesis states that primitive life can not form from complex molecules.

[Pernic10us]

@amanwithdreams

"Things which are miraculous by nature can never be proved"

Exactly. We should reject any thing that is not supported by evidence, until it is. There is an infinite amount of wacky claims that can be made, some more innocent than other, but ridiculous nevertheless. That doesn't mean we should just accept anything until it is disproved. Although, I am sure there are some used car salesmen that would strongly disagree with me here! They love "faith!"

[amanwithdreams]

@Pernic10us I agree, there are many wacky claims made. Christianity has been proved to millions and millions of people. People of all intelligence and nationalities. So either a large percentage of the world are crazy, deluded or right. I am not here to convert you, I was an atheist for most of my life. Finding God is not possible with the wrong heart and mind. That's why athiests remain. It's that simple and can never be rationalized. It is both a physical and mental process which occurs.

[Pernic10us]

@amanwithdreams

I wish it were a physical process. It could then be measured!

Millions and millions being convinced of something is NOT proof. At one time, EVERYONE believed that the Earth was flat, and the universe revolved around it. It took those people centuries in some cases to relent from these beliefs after being shown the evidence to the contrary. Nothing much has changed yet, has it?

[amanwithdreams]

@Pernic10us Yes eveyone most did believe the earth was Flat, but this is NOT what is taught in the Holy Bible.

The idea that Christians once commonly believed in a flat earth for theological reasons is a myth. The story was invented to promote the claim that Christians have widely resisted scientific advancement due to doctrinal constraints. A major motivating factor behind propagating this myth has been to bolster the Darwinian worldview and to further the goal of displacing the biblical ....

[amanwithdreams]

@amanwithdreams world view. No evidence exists to support the common claim that scientists were once persecuted for opposing the flat-earth belief or advocating the spherical earth view, which has been commonly accepted for millennia. According to my research, flat-earth believers in the West consisted of only a handful, at best, of true believers and most of the last few adherents died decades ago.

[Pernic10us]

@amanwithdreams

The prosecution of Galileo happened long before Darwin.

I didn't single out christians here. I was only pointing out that beliefs held by a majority don't necessarily reflect reality.

[amanwithdreams]

@Pernic10us The only 2 Christian writers known to have advocated a flat earth were a 4th-century heretic, Lactantius and an obscure 6th-century Egyptian Monk, Cosmas Indicopleustes. Although the flat-earth myth was effectively debunked in 1991 by Russell’s scholarly study, the flat-earth myth is still used to claim that Christianity has a long history of persecuting scientists. History supports, not a war of religion against science, .....

[amanwithdreams]

@amanwithdreams but instead a war of evolutionary propagandists against religion

[amanwithdreams]

@Pernic10us When Mohammad started preaching, at the time all the Jews and Christians rejected him, as he failed the true criteria and test of being a prophet of God. This is why he is still regarded as false today, and we know there are many false religions and many more to come. Islam also has many racist and hate filled comments about Jews and Christians. That alone is enough to know it could never of been a religion from the true God taught in Christianity.

[amanwithdreams]

@Pernic10us Last point. The truth of Christianity all rests with the crucification and coming back from the dead of Jesus Christ. No other religious leader has ever been able to do this and there were countless testimonies and witnesses to this whole event, whether you choose to believe it based on the information we have. I have very good information on this which convinces me without a shadow of a doubt, I am more than willing to share it with you.

[Pernic10us]

@amanwithdreams

Which testimonies do you find most compelling?

I am intrigued. I would love to know more about this information you have. I am only seeking the truth.

The bible itself cannot be considered reliable proof, as the events were documented based on hearsay, decades after the fact. There were many scribes and historical writers in the area at the time, and none of them included any mention of the miraculous claims made in the bible.

[amanwithdreams]

@Pernic10us The Holy Bible cannot be considered reliable proof, says who? ....We have today in our possession 5,300 known Greek manuscripts of the New Testament, another 10,000 Latin Vulgates, and 9,300 other early versions (MSS), giving us more than 24,000 manuscript copies of portions of the New Testament in existence today! (taken from McDowell's Evidence That demands a Verdict, vol.1, 1972 pp. 40-48; Time, January 23, 1995, p. 57). cont.....

[amanwithdreams]

@amanwithdreams ....Though we do not have any originals, with such a wealth of documentation at our disposal with which to compare, we can delineate quite closely what those originals contained. No other ancient writing of antiquity has as many MSS as the New Testament. In fact, when we compare the works of antiquity with that of the NT documents, we will then see how superior the New Testament really is in terms of dating and number of MSS.

[Pernic10us]

@amanwithdreams

The age of a book or text does not define its authenticity. I understand the bible's importance as historical liturature. I do not believe there is any good reason to take any of its supernatural claims seriously because of that.

Regardless of what you believe, as long as you are reading and thinking for yourself, and not a religious (fear + ignorance) machine, that is what matters most. Cheers.

[amanwithdreams]

@Pernic10us Agreed!

[Pernic10us]

@amanwithdreams

It is an impressive feat, in the history of written language, but it doesn't lend any credibility to the miraculous claims in it. If one were to hold the view that the scriptures were divinely inspired, then only one error in them would render them void. Science has already showed us that the biblical account of creation is incorrect. Beautiful, and poetic, but incorrect.

[amanwithdreams]

@Pernic10us We believe the original scriptures and what was divinely inspired were without error. Obviously the copies would have error, but it doesn't change any main body or context of the holy bible. IF the ball was red instead of blue, it was still a ball. Most are really picking at needles in a haystack here. Science cannot prove how the world began, it is all a postulated hypothesized theory. So no the biblical account could also be a possibility.

[Pernic10us]

@amanwithdreams

We can't observe the beginning of the world. But we can examine evidence to determine the most likely scenario.

We can't prove that Pluto will complete its orbit around the Sun, based on observation. Its sidereal period is greater than the amount of time that we have known that it exists! We can however, examine the properties of similar planets to build a model of its rotation.

Just because we aren't 100% sure how it began, doesn't mean that a magic guy did it.

[amanwithdreams]

@Pernic10us You are correct, but it also doesn't rule out that magic guy.

[amanwithdreams]

@Pernic10us As long as science uses words like "most likely, possible, we believe, we predict, might, we anticipate etc" I will not take it as 100% truth. Those words always allow for mistakes, which we find happen often.

[Pernic10us]

@amanwithdreams

You would think that a divine thinker would have at least waited until we had a better system of documentation.

What are the needles? These are clearly representations of a Bronze Age understanding of the world.

There is no scientific revelation in the bible. It doesn't say that our Sun is just one of many billions of stars in our area. Or that the Earth is in constant free-fall around it. You can postulate some ambiguous scripture in support, but it doesn't help your case.

[amanwithdreams]

@Pernic10us Your comment clearly shows you don't have a full grasp of the Bible. The Bible states in Jerimiah 33:22 "I will make the descendants of David my servant and the Levites who minister before me as COUNTLESS as the STARS of the sky and as measureless as the sand on the seashore.'" Scientists have been trying to count the stars forever, but just keep finding more galaxies.

[Pernic10us]

@amanwithdreams

Current estimates on the number of stars trumps any amount of sand on Earth. This is a red herring. What does it have to do with accuracy of biblical claims? We seem to be losing focus here.

[amanwithdreams]

@Pernic10us It was an accurate statement that the stars are countless. That is a fact. So that does show biblical accuracy.

[amanwithdreams]

@Pernic10us Current estimates on the number of stars trumps any amount of sand on Earth. How can you know, know one knows this for sure. They keep on finding more and more galaxies, they only have the technology to go a certain distance, so you are making a presumption here.

[amanwithdreams]

@Pernic10us Magdelene Manuscript and Mark and Qumran.

[Pernic10us]

@amanwithdreams

I think that you are referring to the Magdalen papyrus. The Magdalene Manuscript is about the explicit sexual relationship between Jesus and Mary.

The gospels were written decades after the time that the stories were supposed to have happened.

The Dead Sea scrolls only provided copies of the Hebrew Bible, nothing from the new testament. Also, they have yet to be published entirely. There is some controversy over the discoveries in those texts, as access to them is limited.

[amanwithdreams]

@Pernic10us Of coarse the gospels where written decades after the time that the stories were supposed to have happened. Think of what you said. All of history is written AFTER the event. Nothing new here, yet you point it out like it's a valid excuse for error. Be realistic please. The fact that the scrolls proved the Hebrew Bible is great news as it is still part of the Bible. We don't reject the Old Testament.

[Pernic10us]

@amanwithdreams

A word of mouth rumor is not very reliable as proof, especially ones decades old.

The most accurate historical reports are written by those who observed. We have many of these writings from this time, from this era. None of them take note of the miracles.

You claimed that the Dead Sea scrolls provided credence to the Jesus legend. I only mentioned them because they have absolutely nothing say about Jesus.

You could have millions of copies, it wouldn't make a difference.

[amanwithdreams]

@Pernic10us No I said the dead sea scrolls prove evidence of the Bible, the Old testament contains the messianic prophercies. But you are right in having more copies doesn't make it more true.

[amanwithdreams]

@Pernic10us Just so you know, new research which has now been uncovered by Dr. Carsten Thiede and is published in his newly released book on the subject, the Jesus Papyrus mentions a fragment from the book of Mark found among the Qumran scrolls (fragment 7Q5) showing that it was written sometime before 68 AD It is important to remember that Christ died in 33 AD, ...

[amanwithdreams]

@amanwithdreams so this manuscript could have been written, at the latest, within 35 years of His death; possibly earlier, and thus during the time that the EYEWITNESSES to that event were still alive!"

[Pernic10us]

@amanwithdreams

That truth is relying on the belief that some all-powerful god accepts pain and suffering as currency. What good comes from sacrifice in the form of death. This is a case of scape-goating, and is inherently immoral.

I don't want personal testimonies. These are subject to bias and coercion. Show me empirical evidence that thousands of people crawled out of their graves, and walked around the city(Matt.:27:52-53)! Then we will have something to talk about!

[amanwithdreams]

@Pernic10us No this is purely incorrect due to a lack of understanding. Sin is what caused pain and suffering to enter the world. Before Adam and Eve committed sin, they lived in total harmony with the animals and nature. Man kind brought sin into the world, not God. The dead will not rise until the return of Jesus Christ. If you are around to witness it, like any doubting Thomas, it will be too late, so you better "hope" you are not wrong. Peace

[Pernic10us]

@amanwithdreams

And here we go with the rationalizations. If you pin down one scripture, then it means something different. If something doesn't line up, then I don't understand it. If you were to use this standard for any other book, whether it be historical, spiritual, or fiction, you could "prove" anything using them.

Taking the Adam and Eve story literally shows how far you are wiling to go to do this. Like I said, believe what you want, but don't accuse others of "misunderstanding."

[Pernic10us]

@amanwithdreams

Did it not say that they crawled out of their graves, past tense, and were seen by many people upon the resurrection of Jesus? It says that the centurions saw it happen too!

I think that was pretty clear. Or am I not understanding this either?

[amanwithdreams]

@Pernic10us PLEASE quote me this reference in scripture you are making. thanks

[Pernic10us]

@amanwithdreams

I did a few comments ago. Matt. 27:52-53.

[amanwithdreams]

@Pernic10us Yes you did, Thank you. Firstly it says many not thousands. Lazerus was also raised from the dead. If I could show you, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

[Pernic10us]

@amanwithdreams

Regardless of who "brought it in," the pain and suffering is considered a sacrifice. The sacrifice is considered currency against the charge of sin. The only recipient of this currency is a god, who dictates the terms of payment. What did I misunderstand?

This is beside the point that just two people could possibly screw it up for all of man-kind. In a game that was designed to fail!

Sorry, this just doesn't do it for me.

[amanwithdreams]

@Pernic10us Everyone has to follow rules in their life, I am sure you do too. If you break the rules you pay a price. There is no difference here, the only difference is that the consequence is far greater. The teachings of Jesus Christ, are all about fairness, love, respect, help, forgiveness. The only reason most people don't wish to follow in Jesus Christ is because of the particular sin in thier lifestyle they wish to continue living and not have to make sacrifice on that particular sin.

[Pernic10us]

@amanwithdreams

There have been many philosophers, and leaders that have had much more insightful, and useful advice to give than this. I can take the good messages of any religion, and toss out the useless junk. Just because he said some kind words, doesn't mean I need to adhere to the whole bible.

I had hoped this wasn't going to descend into an appeal to emotion.

Rejecting the story of Jesus has absolutely nothing to do with sin. If this were so, why do so many religious people still sin?

[amanwithdreams]

@Pernic10us What Bad messages have come out of the New Testament?

Just because people are religious, doesn't make them sinless. Everyone is a sinner, no one is perfect, even those who follow religion. NO one says you have to be perfect to follow Christianity. Sinning is part of our nature. Being honestly repentant and doing your best to sin less is all we can do.

[Pernic10us]

@amanwithdreams

You didn't address my question about the immoral nature of pain and suffering as currency. Do you uphold a belief that an immoral god requires sacrifice from everyone based on the actions of two people long ago? That a talking snake taunted a woman into challenging authority, and all man-kind now suffers the consequences?

We are required to cower in ignorance now because one woman wanted to know the truth then?

If there is a truly higher power, I would hope that it is better.

[amanwithdreams]

@Pernic10us Lets get one thing straight. There is not talking "snake". The word has been mis-translated. The actual word means "diviner or one who practices divination" There is no doubt that if Adam and Eve had remained faithful and as a new intelligent free willed creation, had proved themselves to be integrity keepers,

[amanwithdreams]

@amanwithdreams ...if they were ignorant of other ethical matters. Eve clearly understood the command and the negative consequences, for she was able to explain it to the serpent.(devil) God told Adam and Eve they would die if they ate the fruit, but they didn't. They died spiritually, they were removed from a place where they had direct contact with God, and could not go back. They did not experience immediate physical death, but they did eventually died.

[Pernic10us]

@amanwithdreams

Saying that this story was about the devil is presumptuous. It doesn't say that it was the devil, it says that it was a snake; that would be "cursed above all livestock and wild animals," and will have to "crawl on its belly."

Anyhow, I am familiar with the story. I feel like I am being preached to at this point. I was only looking for some good evidence for the story. I can't say that it wouldn't be great if it were all true. But you can't control what you believe.

[amanwithdreams]

@Pernic10us cont...... they would have been allowed to eat from the tree of life as a symbol of God's guarantee of everlasting and continued life on earth. It was never part of God's original purpose that humans die and go to heaven. God explained to Adam both what he was not to do (eat from the tree) and what the consequences of disobedience were (death) in Genesis 2:16-17. In other words, God taught them that eating from the tree was wrong, so they did know it was wrong, even.....

[Pernic10us]

@amanwithdreams

Any way you spin this story, god always comes across as an egomaniacal, and insecure prick, doesn't he?

"The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully." - Richard Dawkins

[amanwithdreams]

@Pernic10us Quoting Richard Dawkins. Who actually admitts the possiblity of a higher Intelligent being/desinger he just won't label it as God.

[amanwithdreams]

@Pernic10us What Bad messages have come out of the New Testament?

Just because people are religious, doesn't make them sinless.  Everyone is a sinner, no one is perfect, even those who follow religion. NO one says you have to be perfect to follow Christianity. Sinning is part of our nature. Being honestly repentant and doing your best to sin less is all we can do.

[Pernic10us]

@amanwithdreams

I find it interesting that so many christians admire Jesus so much. His message didn't pertain to most of them, according to the story. He was speaking to, and trying to appeal to the Jews. Matt. 5:21-24.

Only Paul attempted to include everyone else. He never knew Jesus. He didn't like christians. How do we know he didn't pervert the whole thing to undermine the original message? This was a view that Thomas Jefferson held.

Yes, I have read the bible.

[amanwithdreams]

@Pernic10us What's not to admire about a devine man who lived a sinless life on earth and has endless amounts of wisdom, preaches love your enemy (unlike Islam) love and respect all races, religions, equal rights for men and women, preaches war is a sin, suicide is a sin, adultry is a sin. What's NOT to like? And unlike all the others, he was the only one to come back from death, proving his divinity.

[Pernic10us]

@amanwithdreams

Well, apparently he wasn't the only one to come back from death. We just discussed all the others.

Here is the extraordinary claim of resurrection. I do not accept it as there is no evidence. We are right back where we started due to circular reasoning. This seems to be a very common tactic for those that rely on faith. If you are satisfied with that, then the best of luck to you.

[Pernic10us]

@amanwithdreams

Sin wasn't the only time that suffering was required as sacrifice. Animals, and even children had to be slain to appease this blood god of the bible.

[amanwithdreams]

@Pernic10us Yes it's true the OT is filled with stories which horrify our moral and ethical standards of today, we do not have all the answers but you need to understand God killed, he didn't murder. Murder is the unlawful taking of life. Killing is the lawful taking of life.

[Pernic10us]

@amanwithdreams

Listen to yourself. I hope that one day you look back at this statement, and remember in what state of mind that this is justified. Only religion can twist a good person's morals - I assume you are generally a good person - into accepting such filth. Rubbish. I wish you well friend.

[amanwithdreams]

@Pernic10us cont... Since God created life, it is within his right. The wages of sin is death so when God executes someone it is not murder, it is killing because it is a lawful taking of life. Remember, all people have sinned. Sin is the breaking of God's law. Therefore, God's execution is lawful. As hard as that is for you to grasp and accept, we are his creation, this is his world, and his rules.

[Pernic10us]

@amanwithdreams

No it isn't. It is not within his right. Once something has become self-aware, it is its own life.

If you have children, your wife and yourself have created a life. It is not within your right to kill it, lawfully or not.

We are better than this. We are better than this horrible representation of a higher being. I grasp it just fine, and thoroughly reject it. I have shed my fear of it, and am far happier now than when I was as a believer. You don't know freedom, until you try

[amanwithdreams]

@Pernic10us If the fundamental teachings of Christianity were not about, sharing, loving, forgiving, caring, helping, not being selfish, etc, I wouldn't follow it. But it's quite the opposite. It teaches me that we all have faults, no one is perfect, and caring for our fellow brothers and sisters is the most important thing. Just because the Bible has many stories for educational purposes doesn't make it a bad book. We are too follow the NT on how to live our lives, The OT was descriptive,

[Pernic10us]

@amanwithdreams

Wouldn't you be capable of pursuing this things without partaking in the barbaric ritual of eating the flesh, and drinking the blood of an iron-age demigod?

For the sake of humanity, I sure hope so.

[amanwithdreams]

@amanwithdreams The laws of the OT are not applicable TODAY. THAT IS WHY WE HAVE THE NEW TESTAMENT. That is why Jesus is the FINAL prophet. GODS LAWS were DESCRIPTIVE, in the Old Testament. THE OT DESCRIBES HOW GOD ACTED IN THE PAST AT SOME POINT IN TIME. GOD TOLD PEOPLE HOW TO LIVE AND WHO TO KILL to fulfill GODS purposes. I hope you c that

WITH THE New Testament it became PRESCRIPTIVE. JESUS CAME AND TOLD US HOW TO LIVE, WHICH IS TO LOVE YOUR ENEMY, TO NOT HARM OR KILL AND TO FORGIVE,

[DemoraX]

@amanwithdreams in other words someone wrote a new bible to be more politically corrent for New Testament times, i imagine if someone wrote a NEW NEW testament these days "gods sacred laws" would change again!

no more beating slaves and burning witches...

"LOVE ME OR BURN IN HELL"-god ...what a guy

[amanwithdreams]

@DemoraX "Someone wrote a new bible" I am presuming you are unaware that there were many authors of the Bible, not just one. Gods laws haven't changed, let me explain how it works. The Old Testament laws are categorized in three groups: the civil, the priestly, and the moral. The civil laws must be understood in the context of a theocracy. Though the Jewish nation in the Old Testament was often headed by a king, it was a theocratic system with the Scriptures as a guide to the nation.

cont.

[amanwithdreams]

@DemoraX Those laws that fall under this category are not applicable today because we are not under a theocracy. The priestly laws dealing with the Levitical and Aaronic priesthoods were representative of the future and true High Priest Jesus, who offered Himself as a sacrifice on the cross. Since Jesus fulfilled the priestly laws, they are no longer necessary to be followed and are not now applicable.

The moral laws, on the other hand, are not abolished,.......cont

[amanwithdreams]

@DemoraX because the moral laws are based upon the character of God. Since God's holy character does not change, the moral laws do not change either. Therefore, the moral laws are still in effect.

In the New Testament we do not see a reestablishment of the civil or priestly laws. But we do see a reestablishment of the moral law. This is why we see New Testament condemnation of homosexuality as a sin but not with the associated death penalty. cont.....

[amanwithdreams]

@DemoraX I can see that you have not adequately understood either the specific laws or the larger context of Biblical law. The interpretations you suggest involve gross neglect and basic ignorance about the teaching of the law in general. Unfortunately this is why MOST people have the wrong idea of the OT and NT. The Bibles teaching in general. Hoping I have cleared that up for you. Peace.

[ruttnstarjna]

God is not created. The Living, the Self-Subsisting, Eternal. He who shapes you in the womb.

[ruttnstarjna]

Al-Baraqah (6) As to those who reject Faith, it is the same to them whether thou warn them or do not warn them; they will not believe.

[Bluenosedwill1]

christianity is meant to scare you. otherwise it has no hold.

people loving god is like beaten wives too scared to leave their husband for fear of worse punishment.

the thing is it works.

what i want to know is, if something had to have created the universe what created "god"?

and what created the cereater of "god"

etc.

[Mrcharliebobo]

maybe thats why GOD said do not eat of the fruit from the tree of knowledge, because he knew man would spend the rest of his days trying yo prove GOD doesn't exist! what a bunch of dumbass's the human race has become.

[RPFS2008]

You're eating the fruit from the tree of knowledge by just being on here. Get off the internet and go live in a cave, you utterly ungrateful sod.

[jesica333]

Well how can u create God if he always existed, Human brain is not clever enough to understand. e.g. if i was to tell some one about "IT wireless signal Theory" to a person living in 1st century then all will go over persons head and they will say this is rubbish, but now if I tell some one about wireless then they will say yes its possible, in same way we don't understand how God existed because we don't have enough knowledge to understand this.

[Sierrapup1993]

I'm curious. In theory isn't there always a beggining?

I've always been under that impression.

So, if that is in fact correct, the statement of " Well how can u create God if he always existed,"

is wrong.

I don't know. Maybe that doesn't really make sense.

Not to say I don't believe in God, but your defense for God's exsistence is faulty, in ways other than just God's creation.

Sorry, I just had to get that thought out there.

[jesica333]

Yes there is a beginning and ending, But only in the theories made by humans as they cannot accept anything could have been started without any thing, "Big bang", In which a bang happened but what caused that? and what caused that thing to happen which caused Big bang? so Best alternative is that there Must be someone who was always there and made other things to work and that some one is God, so laws of begining and ending cannot be applied to GOD who is Infinite

thanks

[kenodobi]

And the concept of god never satisfied me. I'd always think of what's beyond god, I couldn't comprehend it.

[kenodobi]

I remember. Your hair was much shorter. Hair grows.

[g0at]

Why do you hate the lord jesus christ?

:0