Pedal First vs Instant Start brushless motor controllers

[LMF5000]

What you're demonstrating here is the difference between sensored ("instant start") vs sensorless ("pedal first") brushless motor. I've seen you use an RC powertrain in one of your other videos, so you probably know what I'm talking about.

Nowadays, at least in RC, even sensorless motors can start from a dead stop. It's a little jerky until it gets going, but it does work. I can confirm this because my RC car has one such motor and runs on only 3 wires.

[Ypedal]

@LMF5000 The castle HV110 sensorless controller on my RC bike works well as long as i'm not bogged down at a dead stop, but even then it manages to kick off pretty good.. sometimes causing not-expected wheelies lol..

[LMF5000]

@Ypedal haha. Well, when the ESC isn't getting back-EMF signals from the unpowered coils (due to the motor being stationary), it kind of "guesses" which coils to power up - or rather, powers them up blindly in a "startup" sequence that is assumed to be able to get most motors to start spinning in the right direction. Then once the motor is spinning fast enough to generate a back-emf that the ESC can read, it switches to "running" mode (timing with BEMF) and starts working properly.

[kimber191145223]

Kermit the frog!!!!!!!!!!

[lupabuatchannel]

I Really Like The Video From Your 2 motors, one works with both PF and IS controller, the 2nd motor only works with IS but has to be bumped to get going

[cenedywong]

Your Video Is Very Useful Sharing 2 motors, one works with both PF and IS controller, the 2nd motor only works with IS but has to be bumped to get going

[Durtrax1]

you are not biulding up anof tork so will not spin

[gammer019]

Becausr the engine you have on the wheel has its own generator on it witch makes a tiny"spark" in witch is electricity by moving the wheel, it uses knetic energy to get the weel started, then by using the throttle makes the wheel start up using that knetic energy to make the wheel keep going... If you need a video of how this works then send me a message, and subscribe to me so you can see what in talking about...

[LMF5000]

@gammer019 I think you are explaining something completely different than what is being shown in this video. The difference is that one motor has hall sensors (hence the extra wires) so that the controller knows which set of coils to give power to to make the motor spin, even when the motor is stopped; whereas the other motor does not have sensors, so the controller needs to use the back-emf from the undriven coils to determine where the magnets are and which coils to energise next.

[Ypedal]

@LMF5000 Both motors in this video are brushless with Hall sensors. However only the motor in the 20" rim will run with both types of controller... vs the wheel in a 26" only works with the IS type and pushed... the 26" wheel will not run at all on the sensorless controller, this is my questions.. why does the 26" wheel motor not run using the sensorless controller?

[LMF5000]

@Ypedal It's very odd how the instant-start controller will work without the hall sensors connected. Or were the halls actually connected (when you ran the 26" wheel with the controller that worked)

I think the answer lies in the fact that you don't get that cogging effect. It might be that you're not actually turning the motor with your hand - because instead of a regular freewheel, the 26" wheel has a centrifugal clutch. Try spinning it up electrically, keep it turning, and switch ESC

[cncsmarty]

Your wheel is going backward

[coolkidis100]

7 people made gocarts with this

[jack9102]

if your axle nuts fly off, your FUCKING DEAD, neevermind the motor and wires

[valteri0007]

get a scooter

[onedayillpay]

what if you place a motor in place of your front sprocket

[minuteman2k]

Are you kurmit the frog ????

[ElectricEquines]

Those look like pretty slender torque-arms mate!!!

[garret1325]

did you ever solve the controller problem? if not this is why.. assuming the three main power wires are in the proper order, there are three magnetic pickup sensors in the hub, the second, ( or middle) hall sensor must be flipped over, this is some what difficult if its glued into place,sometimes there siliconed and can be very carefully removed then reinserted upside down! And the second field winding is all so reversed inside the hub to compensate,thats why your sensor-less controller didnt

[Diddleshot]

Why don't you just pedal?

[ChuffChuffWoo]

Good motor

[shadowkn1ght]

i got two questions. where did you get the motor and where did you get the controller?

i mean the motor that works with the PF motor

[owen89215]

You motor is spinning the wrong way lol

[aaronjohnmon]

Try calibrating the instant start to bump start it in a way., just enough to get it past the initial equilibrium. to keep the process going

[homersapian67]

Your statement that when you spin this backwards is incorrect. You are spinning backwards. Look at the direction of your motor video.

[heberorozco]

you can wear a backpack and you can put a lot of li-po batteries connect them carefully and get super power :D

[poweruser69]

well in a sensorless system they are using a pulse from the motor windings to start the process,and they have designed the controller to be eficent at full power.

the inductance of the motor is what keeps it from starting.

this is a trade off for top end power with the rotor closer to the stator.

in a brushless(sensored) style the controller knows exactly where the phase is and can put full fower at startup.

the sensorless cannot do this.

so the amount of inductance is what causes this.

[vooodooou]

HI nice video, But the second controller is runing the motor backwards. What,s up with that?

[Ypedal]

@vooodooou The motor can be run in either direction simply by swapping 2 of the 3 motor wires. Just happened to be in reverse but it does not matter for this example.

[grumpypant]

...there was a time when I had an idea of installing a small jet turbine engine to my Giant comfort bicycle...only if I can draw a functional blueprint for it!

Pretty cool innovation there, once again, dude!!!

[grumpypant]

Keep truckin', young dude, you're doing fine...and you will go far down the roads---further than an average career politician!!!

[grumpypant]

Hey man, I was just messing with ya to get your feedbacks! What you're doing there is brilliant; and I do admire creatived minds like yours...

The problem is a fine invention from a creatived mind can be interfered by brainless careered politicians who can take your life enjoyment and spoiled it with nonsense laws!!!

[grumpypant]

...all that electrical current from that motor can generate through you body and slow down your sperm production...

We need better future American politicians, not crooks and con artists from human experience like this!!!!

[Ypedal]

emf produced by a 36v dc brushless motor don't even come close to what you get exposed to on a daily basis from other things around you in this modern age.

We need enlightened individuals with open minds to change the current mindset of paranoid uneducated individuals like yourself.

[QeXeQ]

@grumpypant i want my sperm back

[grumpypant]

Why don't people peddal their bikes the old fashion ways...isn't that the whole idea of riding a bicycle? This is a product of laziest; and there are many fat people as the result!!!

[Ypedal]

Any why don't people stick to paper and ink instead of these new fangled computer things....

Cars don't make people lazy ? adding a small electric motor to a bicycle is a great way to flatten out the hills or heavy winds allowing regular people to use a bicycle to get from A to B instead of burning gasoline in multi tonne vehicles.

Cheer up will ya.

[Architectonic01]

@grumpypant

It is a known fact that you are more likely to pedal an electric bicycle than pedal your car.

[pcarlson1979]

Hi there.

It sounds like the 2nd wheel is a sensored brushless motor so it will only work with a sensored brushless controller. The reason is has no cogging is because it seems like the hall sensors are incorrect in this wheel. This is also why it needs a push to get going. Basically the sensors are sending the wrong information to the controller.

[Bocarandasteve]

Where Can I buy a motor and the controller like this one?

[BungaEBiker]

It's Gremlins, although I have heard of that somewhere before but I can't place where. I think I saw a vid where a guy had the same problem. not sure though, I'll sniff around see what I can come up with.